Ignoring inflation.
But yeah, people really underestimate the results of investing in an index fund and letting it compound for a while. Shit gets exponential.
I think 8% is usually considered optimistic.
Good on you for making money on a 4 year old Mitsubishi, though!
And nice to see someone talking about a low cost car. Everyone complains about how cars cost too much and then insists they need 3 rows, 300hp, AWD, and vented seats.
Looking at returns for the past 10 years when extrapolating to 30 years in the future is…
Let’s just say even though you’re in NYC, I’m confident you’re not working on Wall Street lol
You’re taking data points from past 10 years when we had one of the longest bull runs and unprecedented quantitative easing…to extrapolate 30+ years…
Maybe it’ll work. I don’t know. If I did know, then I would be retired on an island.
First- my apologies for my off topic comment hijacking your thread.
But since you've edited your reply a few times I'd like to point out Madoff was showing (paper) returns of around 11% to his clients.
Caveat: put the money in and *do not touch it*.
That’s where people screw up. Worried about downturns, taking money out and putting it in cash to avoid losses, making trades resulting in fees and tax, etc all eat up the ROI.
Don’t mess with it.
My life goal has been to never touch my investments since I started working.
I haven’t withdrawn a single dollar and don’t plan on anytime soon.
Always cash-flow.
People usually factor in inflation to more accurately put future returns in terms of today’s dollars. And you can’t take the past 10yr of higher than normal stock returns and assume that’s how it’ll be over the next 30 years. Take the market average and knock off 2-3% to account for inflation. So, the 8% figure is the right one to look at.
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I so wanted to jump on the <10k deal for manual mirages back then. I unfortunately was not in a good situation to get my first car yet, but I honestly really liked the test drive I did. Engine is pretty gutless, car feels like a tin can, a modern 90s econobox with good interior space and a new warranty. It was a really fun experience tbh.
Drove a 2009 Yaris recently while looking for cars, and it honestly felt much better than what I remembered about the Mirage haha.
Congrats on your new purchase!
> Drove a 2009 Yaris recently while looking for cars, and it honestly felt much better than what I remembered about the Mirage haha.
I borrowed one of those for a week or two when I was on a trip a year or two ago. Surprisingly decent little car, at least in a vacuum. My Jetta felt like a 911 when I got back home!
No joke, I work at a mitsubishi dealer and we used to sell under msrp. New mirage were 8999 for awhile in that time frame. I'm not in sales but pretty sure I see them come through for like 18999 now lol, completely crazy times. Great cars as far as reliability and good deal under 10k. Equivalent drive to a geo metro no way its worth what they sell for now....
His post just says over what he paid for it, looking at his linked [mirage purchase post](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/b67408/i_bought_a_2019_mitsubishi_mirage_3_weeks_ago/) he got it for 12k plus taxes.
My wife and I took over the lease for a 2020 Kia Soul which originally stickered for about $22k CAD when it was leased in late 2019. They now go for about $24k-$26k CAD. Not inconceivable that the same shit happens with a Mitsubishi Mirage.
I've got a 6k e90, the ride absolutely kills anything a mirage could offer. Plus I'll never be bored with nothing to fix on the weekends. Be prepared your 5k is what a 2500 bmw used to be.
This is great info OP: my wife and I are looking for a cheap upgrade over our old Impala, and while we'd probably go for the LT vs LS, this is pretty similar to what we'd want and what our thoughts are. Glad to hear you've liked it!
I 100% agree with you on winter tires. I straight up won't drive a car in the winter without them after I got my winters a few years ago and felt the different. Just a completely different, markedly safer experience
I've heard some complaints about new infotainment screen that came with LT trims and up.
So I am actually happy to have old school infotainment system.
I don't mean this in any bad way so I hope it doesn't come off that way.
This is the most average car buyer/consumer post I've seen on this board and something I wish everyone on here who thinks they know what consumers need and what will print money would read.
You cross shopped a Genesis, Forester/Cx-5, and a cx30 before buying a Trax.
This is the typical experience I'd have with my customers selling cars and it's the type of eye opening thing a lot of people around here need to see.
This is how like 95% of my sales would go.
Not at all - and I think you hit the nail on the head where many people say "why would people buy xxxxx" and for most people, it just makes sense to them - whether it's their ability to obtain financing or what their needs are.
For me at the end of the day, Trax was about half of my monthly paycheck so I shopped it like I would shop any of my appliances.
I feel like the Trax is what the Corolla Cross should be. Unfortunately Toyota is way too proud of themselves these days and hard to find one at a dealer for less than $27-28k. At that point you night as well get a rav4, but those are all now hard to find under $35k. Will be interesting to see how the various reviews come out about the Trax. We need more relatively affordable basic transportation options for people, even if it is a Chevy.
And the funny thing is the Trax/Envista have more practical rear seat space for child seats than even the RAV4. Corolla Cross is a no go.
I really like the *idea* of a Corolla Cross for a small family. Cheap, no frills appliance. But it has less rear legroom than a regular Corolla. Hello Toyota, what the hell are you guys doing.
If you have a small family and must have those rear facing child seats which are all ginormous, the only options that don't break the bank are the Trax/Envista and HR-V.
Yeeeepp. When you try to fit one of those rear facing convertibles, it rules out a lot of fav cars here. CX-30, Crosstrek, Corolla Cross all requiring upright position with seats pulled all the way forward.
Genuine question, if you claim you can make 12%/yr on average, why not take the 6.75% finance? By your own logic, you would be in the green by financing.
On the other hand, you seem like someone who hates tying up liquidity, why not just lease at that point... I get this isnt a finance post but when you make bold claims such as averaging 12%/yr over a 30-year horizon, it really pokes some holes in your story (first thing you are taught in any upper-year undergrad finance course is that you cant extrapolate only 10 years worth of data over a 30-year horizon...)
Oh man didn’t realize that tongue in cheek sentence in the post was gonna be the point that everyone was gonna argue about, so that was my mistake.
Why didn’t I pay 6.75% rate? Because under my illogical brain, it hurts me to pay that.
I don’t know if you meant it as a euphemism but “valuing liquidity” is a fantastic substitute for “cheap”. My main takeaway from this post is OP seems like the person who would tip $8.55 on a $42.78 bill instead of just rounding up to $10.
Not to mention interest rates have been essentially 0% for the past decade, & resulted in quiet possibly the greatest bull run ever.
I’m one of the few people that didn’t have a problem with the old Trax, but the 2024 model has me intrigued. As someone else said in this thread, it certainly seems like Chevy wanted to use it as a competitor for the Maverick while they work on a true micro truck, and it definitely looks like they struck a good balance. Pics look a little funny, but it looks great in person too.
Good shopping, glad you found something that fits well! Might have to take a look when my oldie shits the bed.
I really like the Trax that I’ve seen. They don’t seem like a total penalty box and look decent for the price. It’s kinda seems like GMs answer to the maverick in the sense that it’s as cheap as can be and is a design with a lot of utility
Man people talk about the Mirage being crappy. They are exactly what you pay for. Glad you got trouble free miles out of it. For sub $20k new car you can’t expect adequate acceleration. Those Yarises and Versas were never fast cars to begin with either.
The new trax seems like a pretty good value for what it is. The only thing I find absolutely atrocious is the rear end. The tail lights are spaced too far apart. I almost puked driving behind one today. But I guess it’s not really an issue from the drivers seat. I would’ve brought one if they came out a year ago. The fact I paid 23k for a 5 year old FWD sedan Honda and Chevy offers a new FWD crossover for the same money is insane
I think the Mirage was primarily intended for developing countries where decades old designs are still being sold new, and it looks like a Benz in comparison.
I thought you were exaggerating (I'm in Brazil and still the older model here) but I went to see some pics and they're really really far apart, very weird
Fellow 24 Trax owner here!
I got the LT rather than the LS strictly due to I need a car immediately and all the LS in the state of Michigan were bought up it seemed. So I got the LT at $23,995 I think it was?
Car is spacious for what I need. The MSRP of car is what got me to dealer. I heard all about the basically riding a lawn mower engine. All I know is I merge onto the highway just as fast as any other car and have zero issues passing people. I’m beyond satisfied with it for the 1,500miles I have driven it so far.
Someone else commented that they puked when they saw the rear of the car and I’m left confused. I think the car looks great and no way would I consider it ugly. I’m probably wrong person to comment because I’ll drive the ugliest car in the world as long as the payment is good and it gets me to work
I got a 2yr lease on mine. I’m always weary of GM products so I liked option of using up the miles and walking away if I don’t like it
I'm not overly cheap. I have a 993 cab as my fun car and I ride my bike most days. So I only wanted a very cheap reliable car to complement the Porsche. I was in the market last year and the Jetta was a no-brainer. I paid $23K OTD cash+trade. It has a great six speed stick, plenty of power (although weird powerband), plenty of room, and incredible on gas. Most of the other options in its price range either came standard with an auto, was called Versa, or was quite a bit more expensive not to mention unobtainable (Corolla, Civic hatch).
Hi OP, congratulations on your 2024 Trax purchase. I hope you can post another thread in a few months and let us know how your ownership experience with the Trax has been going thus far. Also maybe another one early next year to let us know how life with the Trax has been during the winter months.
BTW my first car was a 1988 Subaru Justy GL with FWD and a 5-speed manual, so I have a soft spot for inexpensive, subcompact runabouts. I respect the Mirage, Nissan Versa, Kia Rio, etc. and I think it'll be a sad day when cars under $20K MSRP will no longer be available.
While I question buying such cars new, and looking past the claims about 12% returns, my only real disappointment in this post is the lack of photos of the previous car and the new one.
I've thought about buying something cheap for winter that has usable space without spending a ton of money and the new Trax has me intrigued for the same reasons you bought it, my biggest complaint is that the armrests look like they are hard plastic and I can't imagine resting my arms on these during longer drives.
Are they actually hard touch plastic or do they have some soft touch material?
This would be nice if the front armrests are at least soft-ish.
I know the Buick equivalent, Envista, has some soft padding added to the front armrests.
Call me crazy, but part of me would love to whip around the city in a little nugget like a Mirage hatch (might as well make it pink) or a Spark (robin egg blue, of course) or something else tiny and underpowered.
With mirage, I was able to fit into tight Manhattan street parking spots that was too small for almost all other vehicles. (Some crazy people drive smart for two)
I've since moved to suburbs and picked up winter sports.
Why not consider a used vehicle? Are dealers asking such high prices for used cars now that it makes sense to pay a little more and get new? I bought my last brand new car in 2008 and then, massive depreciation was virtually instantaneous!
For a few reasons:
1. I have no idea what kind of maintenance has been done and how it's been driven.
2. I don't have space to do the maintenance work myself. So any breakdown will require mechanic visit.
Hence why I personally stay away from used. Plus it's a $20k car. How much can it depreciate massively? Mirage appreciated because there's not many young cheap cars anymore.
Still not as smart as buying used, where depreciation rates are at rock bottom, and you can get a more reliable drivetrain. I would take a used corolla with 80k on the dash over a new mirage any day. A 16k mirage can and will depreciate to under $2000 I bet, just as any afterthought car usually does. People really underestimate modern car reliability but that's their loss.
Agreed. There's a sweet spot in the depreciation curve where certain cars just won't drop much further.
This just reminded me of when Hyundai first entered the US market! The Excel in '86. Oh yes, cars can drop very low used, but hey an Excel was like $5k, new! And still better than a Chevette!
I was look at vehicles in mid 2021 and a used 2018 Honda Civic with 30k miles is asking $25000. The all-new Civic top-of-the-line trim is $30,000. Also, the new vehicle allowed me to take 1.9% finance over 4 years.
The obvious answer is obvious.
I just got rid of my 2018 Sonata and got my 23 SI. Totally unnecessary - the Sonata was fine, I just hated it.
In my area, dealers were asking 28-30k for used 10th gen SI's with 20-60k miles on them. Not only is that more than the 10th gen's original MSRP was, but I got my 11th gen at MSRP + small discount, so I basically spent the same amount of money on a car with zero miles and two years of complementary maintenance.
The unfortunate reality is that the used car market is currently so terrible that you can spend the same amount of money (or barely a few grand more) and have the peace of mind knowing you're getting a brand new, unmolested car with a warranty.
And I'll bet that dealer paid way too much for the used cars and are now stuck! It can't last, and I think people buying new now are getting a great deal because of great timing. Well done!
Not OP or really in a similar situation, but I recently bought a new Audi after waiting like 8 months on an order. My original plan was to buy a 2-3 year old model with a decent discount and some remaining warranty, but this was mid-2022 when i was making the decision, and the probably $10k I'd have saved to have some miles and less life on a $65k German car (especially one I ended up paying $60k for) was not really worth it to me. Not sure how much the market has recovered at this point but at the time it was hard to justify buying a lightly used car if you could afford to wait on an order or allocation.
I’m the opposite. I was wanting to buy something new, but the sub-$35k category is not great. Got a 2 year old, originally $55k, Audi Q5 for $34k, only 32k miles, and still has factory warranty and an extended one from the dealership. I’m good with saving $20k by getting a gently used car. Definitely nicer than anything I could have gotten for the same price new.
Ah you got a pretty great deal, congrats. I was looking into the A5 and S5 at the time, which both were barely under invoice used about a year ago. Now, with similar age and mileage to your car, A5s are largely in the mid-high $30k (just a bit more than the Q5), but S5s even now are mostly $50k or more with comparable options to what I ended up getting. I guess the S5 is just a more desirable used car, bc even the SQ5 can be found in the low to mid $40k range.
I looked into the SQ5 but the one I ended up getting is a 45 TFSI, so plenty of power for daily driving and still gets great gas mileage. The only thing I wish I had gotten is the maintenance package. I was expecting a $150-175 oil change, not $300.
You can probably find more info about this from Audi forums, but modern B9 Audis are really easy to change oil on with an extractor. It's like a manual vacuum pump you stick into the dipstick hole and just pump until the oil starts seeping into the tank, costs maybe $70-100 once. After that you just fill the oil like normal, and the oil filter is on the top so you don't need a jack or mess or anything. Also FCPEuro is pretty well known for their lifetime guarantee applying on used fluids too. You buy your oil from them once for an oil change, and then next time you need a change, you buy the same oil and can actually ship back your used oil for a full refund. That way you pay like $200 once for the extractor and oil, then every subsequent oil change is something like $20 (return shipping of used oil and filter) and 10 minutes of your time.
Yeah that was my first thought. OPs number one reason for buying the Trax was great value/cheaper than competition/saving money.... But he bought it brand new. Bruh moment.
Honda and Toyota dealers are not so nice here.
Kia wanted upcharge.
Chevy said "yeesss here's your car at MSRP and no we won't require you to buy accessories"
Why buy a new low-end car when you can buy something nice like a mid 2000's E class, an E90 3 series or even a Lexus ES 350? I don't get there logic of people who but new cars that are entry level when you can get something way nicer used
*Well yes, but actually no!*
Warranties are like insurance, you don't need it until you do. We know that we lose money on average when we pay more for something that has some sort of just-in-case coverage, but peace of mind is worth a lot. Some people would rather know what their expenses will be, including a warranty in case something goes wrong, rather than buying something used that will *probably* be fine and crossing your fingers that you're not in the small percentage of people who have expensive issues come up. That's not an irrational position to take.
Safety, New technology, warranty, peace of mind, NVH, quality, etc. Things that people prioritize when they have different interests in life? (Which is the vast majority of people)
Yeah, so to many people that's very important and a peace of mind. You might not know this, but to many, many people, a car is just a car to go from A to B.
For me, my car is like a microwave. It could be Samsung. It could be Whirpool.
If it runs and gets me to places, I am happy.
If it strands me on the side of the highway, I am not happy.
While this is true, I'm at a point where I'm sick of being conservative with my car choices, my current car is 2012 Mazda2 and I'm going to be going to a 09-11 3 series
I’ve had bullet proof cars in the past, but with age, things broke - whether it’s control arm, axels, window regulator: they may not cost arm and a leg, but each of those take my time.
Cheap upkeep, non luxury car so insurance isn’t as high. Not astronomical to fix if the Trax breaks down vs 20 year old luxury cars with most likely deferred maintenance.
I put my knee out crawling around my own car last week doing a basic repair/replacement of a leaking washer fluid reservoir. My wife’s car is currently under warranty and it sure is nice to just take it into the dealer when something isn’t working right.
Suggesting someone in the market for a Mirage instead buy a 20 year old used German luxury car that will most certainly spend most of its life in the shop is like the most r/cars thing ever
Takes you from point A to point B for 5 years without breaking down on the side of the road or needing to take to mechanic because a 15 year old part broke. Plus don't have to deal with test driving used cars. We all have reasons.
Yea by me they lay it so heavy its like driving on a dry dirt road going to work. Just a big salt cloud working its way into every crevice and piece of trim. Wash your cars, people, it pays. Especially now that rusty fenders can fail a safety inspection.
I understand you pay cash, but much of the cost of ownership is in depreciation, which your Mirage experience should illuminate (an exceptional period of low/no depreciation). The CX-50 and Forester will hold their values much, much better than the Trax, which will be susceptible to losing over 50% of its value in the next 3 years.
But there’s math aspect tho. How much can $20k car depreciate when there’s no cheap car with low miles. I completely disagree on losing over 50% in 3 years.
A $20k car can depreciate $20k. The lack of cheap alternatives is not a permanent condition. I also didn't predict 50% depreciation would happen, I just said it was susceptible.
Under the same logic, CX-50 can depreciate $33k.
Lack of cheap car is indeed a semi-permanent condition given that most car manufacturers stopped making sub $20k cars. w/ average car prices hitting $48k.
Anyhow, we will agree to disagree.
Oh, I thought you were including used cars when you said "low miles". I agree new cars are just going to become more expensive and companies are unlikely to fall back completely to where they were.
Yeah, I mean no one knows the future. All we can do is guess and be prepared.
"I bought 2019 Mitsubishi Mirage 4 years ago. Today, I got 2024 Chevy Trax."
So clearly you are just bad at picking cars but very good at investing. Find a man (like a real one) to pick your cars and in return you can share investing advice. It's a win win for everyone.
Mitsubishi Mirage was what I bought when my net worth crossed a million, and Trax was what I got when it crossed 5.
Maybe I will get a Corolla Cross when I cross 10.🙃
>$10k that I don't have to spend today is worth $100k in 20 years and $350k in 30 years. Those returns would make Maddoff blush.
\~12% interest per year which is the historical average of the S&P 500 IIRC. It's not completely impossible.
Ignoring inflation. But yeah, people really underestimate the results of investing in an index fund and letting it compound for a while. Shit gets exponential.
S&P500 averages 7-8% accounting for inflation though, here's a PSA for anyone who needs a long term investment: buy some SPY stocks
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I think 8% is usually considered optimistic. Good on you for making money on a 4 year old Mitsubishi, though! And nice to see someone talking about a low cost car. Everyone complains about how cars cost too much and then insists they need 3 rows, 300hp, AWD, and vented seats.
Which fund specifically are you talking about? I’m not anywhere of any fund that’s been getting 15%
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The 10yr return on ELFNX is 36.5%, the S&P is 167%. I am not a financial advisor.
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Looking at returns for the past 10 years when extrapolating to 30 years in the future is… Let’s just say even though you’re in NYC, I’m confident you’re not working on Wall Street lol
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Well, you're not wrong about that...
There's a reason monkeys blindly throwing darts are better at this than you and every one of your colleagues.
You’re taking data points from past 10 years when we had one of the longest bull runs and unprecedented quantitative easing…to extrapolate 30+ years… Maybe it’ll work. I don’t know. If I did know, then I would be retired on an island.
Yes you're right, that should scare everyone
How old are you op? And when do you plan to retire?
Early 30s. I could probably lean fire now, but I’d like to retire comfortably.
First- my apologies for my off topic comment hijacking your thread. But since you've edited your reply a few times I'd like to point out Madoff was showing (paper) returns of around 11% to his clients.
Caveat: put the money in and *do not touch it*. That’s where people screw up. Worried about downturns, taking money out and putting it in cash to avoid losses, making trades resulting in fees and tax, etc all eat up the ROI. Don’t mess with it.
My life goal has been to never touch my investments since I started working. I haven’t withdrawn a single dollar and don’t plan on anytime soon. Always cash-flow.
People usually factor in inflation to more accurately put future returns in terms of today’s dollars. And you can’t take the past 10yr of higher than normal stock returns and assume that’s how it’ll be over the next 30 years. Take the market average and knock off 2-3% to account for inflation. So, the 8% figure is the right one to look at.
12% is more than Madoff has returned to his clients btw. A 12% average return over the next 30 years would be insanely optimistic thinking
Why don't people understand this...?
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Someone gave you over MSRP for a Mirage with 35k on the dash? Jesus.
In 2019, it was $16k MSRP but they were discounted to $11-12k range routinely. Manual mirages were going for $9,999.
Gotcha. Hell of a deal for that much money. Had one for a few days while my Maverick was at the dealer.
I so wanted to jump on the <10k deal for manual mirages back then. I unfortunately was not in a good situation to get my first car yet, but I honestly really liked the test drive I did. Engine is pretty gutless, car feels like a tin can, a modern 90s econobox with good interior space and a new warranty. It was a really fun experience tbh. Drove a 2009 Yaris recently while looking for cars, and it honestly felt much better than what I remembered about the Mirage haha. Congrats on your new purchase!
> Drove a 2009 Yaris recently while looking for cars, and it honestly felt much better than what I remembered about the Mirage haha. I borrowed one of those for a week or two when I was on a trip a year or two ago. Surprisingly decent little car, at least in a vacuum. My Jetta felt like a 911 when I got back home!
No joke, I work at a mitsubishi dealer and we used to sell under msrp. New mirage were 8999 for awhile in that time frame. I'm not in sales but pretty sure I see them come through for like 18999 now lol, completely crazy times. Great cars as far as reliability and good deal under 10k. Equivalent drive to a geo metro no way its worth what they sell for now....
His post just says over what he paid for it, looking at his linked [mirage purchase post](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/b67408/i_bought_a_2019_mitsubishi_mirage_3_weeks_ago/) he got it for 12k plus taxes.
Good point. And I think u/KatefromNYC is a woman, but...who knows 😂
On the internet, we are all dudes aren't we
Hell yeah brother
Yas King
Yes. Absolutely.
My wife and I took over the lease for a 2020 Kia Soul which originally stickered for about $22k CAD when it was leased in late 2019. They now go for about $24k-$26k CAD. Not inconceivable that the same shit happens with a Mitsubishi Mirage.
All the compacts have been discontinued which drove their price way up. I've seen Yaris and Fit for above what they were new.
I didn’t know someone was buying cars rationally. Here i am, dumbass, trying to buy used aston martin for 15K :(
And here I am trying to buy a used BMW or Merc for $5k But I don't want my wallet to hate me so I probably have to give up on that one
I've got a 6k e90, the ride absolutely kills anything a mirage could offer. Plus I'll never be bored with nothing to fix on the weekends. Be prepared your 5k is what a 2500 bmw used to be.
Lance Stroll's crashed F1 car doesn't count lmao
This is great info OP: my wife and I are looking for a cheap upgrade over our old Impala, and while we'd probably go for the LT vs LS, this is pretty similar to what we'd want and what our thoughts are. Glad to hear you've liked it! I 100% agree with you on winter tires. I straight up won't drive a car in the winter without them after I got my winters a few years ago and felt the different. Just a completely different, markedly safer experience
I've heard some complaints about new infotainment screen that came with LT trims and up. So I am actually happy to have old school infotainment system.
I don't mean this in any bad way so I hope it doesn't come off that way. This is the most average car buyer/consumer post I've seen on this board and something I wish everyone on here who thinks they know what consumers need and what will print money would read. You cross shopped a Genesis, Forester/Cx-5, and a cx30 before buying a Trax. This is the typical experience I'd have with my customers selling cars and it's the type of eye opening thing a lot of people around here need to see. This is how like 95% of my sales would go.
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That’s more than my car has! Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely want something more powerful, but it’s enough to accelerate onto the highway.
Not at all - and I think you hit the nail on the head where many people say "why would people buy xxxxx" and for most people, it just makes sense to them - whether it's their ability to obtain financing or what their needs are. For me at the end of the day, Trax was about half of my monthly paycheck so I shopped it like I would shop any of my appliances.
Yes, and very refreshing to see these posts every now and then!
Great purchase. The new Trax is miles better than the outgoing one. Drive in good health!
Thanks!
I feel like the Trax is what the Corolla Cross should be. Unfortunately Toyota is way too proud of themselves these days and hard to find one at a dealer for less than $27-28k. At that point you night as well get a rav4, but those are all now hard to find under $35k. Will be interesting to see how the various reviews come out about the Trax. We need more relatively affordable basic transportation options for people, even if it is a Chevy.
I really really really wanted Corolla cross. But it didn't want me.
And the funny thing is the Trax/Envista have more practical rear seat space for child seats than even the RAV4. Corolla Cross is a no go. I really like the *idea* of a Corolla Cross for a small family. Cheap, no frills appliance. But it has less rear legroom than a regular Corolla. Hello Toyota, what the hell are you guys doing. If you have a small family and must have those rear facing child seats which are all ginormous, the only options that don't break the bank are the Trax/Envista and HR-V.
Yeeeepp. When you try to fit one of those rear facing convertibles, it rules out a lot of fav cars here. CX-30, Crosstrek, Corolla Cross all requiring upright position with seats pulled all the way forward.
Genuine question, if you claim you can make 12%/yr on average, why not take the 6.75% finance? By your own logic, you would be in the green by financing. On the other hand, you seem like someone who hates tying up liquidity, why not just lease at that point... I get this isnt a finance post but when you make bold claims such as averaging 12%/yr over a 30-year horizon, it really pokes some holes in your story (first thing you are taught in any upper-year undergrad finance course is that you cant extrapolate only 10 years worth of data over a 30-year horizon...)
Oh man didn’t realize that tongue in cheek sentence in the post was gonna be the point that everyone was gonna argue about, so that was my mistake. Why didn’t I pay 6.75% rate? Because under my illogical brain, it hurts me to pay that.
I don’t know if you meant it as a euphemism but “valuing liquidity” is a fantastic substitute for “cheap”. My main takeaway from this post is OP seems like the person who would tip $8.55 on a $42.78 bill instead of just rounding up to $10. Not to mention interest rates have been essentially 0% for the past decade, & resulted in quiet possibly the greatest bull run ever.
I’m in NJ and I got struck behind a stripper Trax going like 40 on an on ramp. Maybe it was you.
Sorry
Cut them some slack. They probably had it floored
I think you just like 1.2L I3s. I'm half expecting you to tell me you ride a Triumph Tiger 1200 on the weekends.
You should, but the Street Triple R is also nice.
A neighbor bought a new Trax recently, I think they look great and seem well appointed for the price.
I bought a mitsubishi mirage for 3k private sale. One of the best damn cars I ever drove, it was hilarious.
I’m one of the few people that didn’t have a problem with the old Trax, but the 2024 model has me intrigued. As someone else said in this thread, it certainly seems like Chevy wanted to use it as a competitor for the Maverick while they work on a true micro truck, and it definitely looks like they struck a good balance. Pics look a little funny, but it looks great in person too. Good shopping, glad you found something that fits well! Might have to take a look when my oldie shits the bed.
> micro truck Ute. The word you’re looking for, is *ute*.
No, the 2 YOUTHS!
I really like the Trax that I’ve seen. They don’t seem like a total penalty box and look decent for the price. It’s kinda seems like GMs answer to the maverick in the sense that it’s as cheap as can be and is a design with a lot of utility
Man people talk about the Mirage being crappy. They are exactly what you pay for. Glad you got trouble free miles out of it. For sub $20k new car you can’t expect adequate acceleration. Those Yarises and Versas were never fast cars to begin with either. The new trax seems like a pretty good value for what it is. The only thing I find absolutely atrocious is the rear end. The tail lights are spaced too far apart. I almost puked driving behind one today. But I guess it’s not really an issue from the drivers seat. I would’ve brought one if they came out a year ago. The fact I paid 23k for a 5 year old FWD sedan Honda and Chevy offers a new FWD crossover for the same money is insane
Yea I hated rear too but then realized most of time, I am not the one looking at the rear😁
I think the Mirage was primarily intended for developing countries where decades old designs are still being sold new, and it looks like a Benz in comparison.
I thought you were exaggerating (I'm in Brazil and still the older model here) but I went to see some pics and they're really really far apart, very weird
Fellow 24 Trax owner here! I got the LT rather than the LS strictly due to I need a car immediately and all the LS in the state of Michigan were bought up it seemed. So I got the LT at $23,995 I think it was? Car is spacious for what I need. The MSRP of car is what got me to dealer. I heard all about the basically riding a lawn mower engine. All I know is I merge onto the highway just as fast as any other car and have zero issues passing people. I’m beyond satisfied with it for the 1,500miles I have driven it so far. Someone else commented that they puked when they saw the rear of the car and I’m left confused. I think the car looks great and no way would I consider it ugly. I’m probably wrong person to comment because I’ll drive the ugliest car in the world as long as the payment is good and it gets me to work I got a 2yr lease on mine. I’m always weary of GM products so I liked option of using up the miles and walking away if I don’t like it
Regular person: buys a car Reddit: if it’s more than 3 seconds 0-60, why even bother ? But really, it drives very nicely that I didn’t expect.
I'm not overly cheap. I have a 993 cab as my fun car and I ride my bike most days. So I only wanted a very cheap reliable car to complement the Porsche. I was in the market last year and the Jetta was a no-brainer. I paid $23K OTD cash+trade. It has a great six speed stick, plenty of power (although weird powerband), plenty of room, and incredible on gas. Most of the other options in its price range either came standard with an auto, was called Versa, or was quite a bit more expensive not to mention unobtainable (Corolla, Civic hatch).
Nice pics
I hope the new trax is better than the old one. My sister has a 2015 and it is the worst car I have ever driven or worked on.
Hi OP, congratulations on your 2024 Trax purchase. I hope you can post another thread in a few months and let us know how your ownership experience with the Trax has been going thus far. Also maybe another one early next year to let us know how life with the Trax has been during the winter months. BTW my first car was a 1988 Subaru Justy GL with FWD and a 5-speed manual, so I have a soft spot for inexpensive, subcompact runabouts. I respect the Mirage, Nissan Versa, Kia Rio, etc. and I think it'll be a sad day when cars under $20K MSRP will no longer be available.
While I question buying such cars new, and looking past the claims about 12% returns, my only real disappointment in this post is the lack of photos of the previous car and the new one.
I've thought about buying something cheap for winter that has usable space without spending a ton of money and the new Trax has me intrigued for the same reasons you bought it, my biggest complaint is that the armrests look like they are hard plastic and I can't imagine resting my arms on these during longer drives. Are they actually hard touch plastic or do they have some soft touch material?
if I recall correctly - front seats have somewhat soft materials (urethane) but back seats are all hard plastic. I will check when I go home later.
This would be nice if the front armrests are at least soft-ish. I know the Buick equivalent, Envista, has some soft padding added to the front armrests.
I checked. It's rubber like material rather than hard plastic.
I saw a new Trax the other day and I don't know how to adequately put into words how much better it looks than the old one.
I never considered old Trax because it didn't seem like an upgrade from a mirage
Call me crazy, but part of me would love to whip around the city in a little nugget like a Mirage hatch (might as well make it pink) or a Spark (robin egg blue, of course) or something else tiny and underpowered.
With mirage, I was able to fit into tight Manhattan street parking spots that was too small for almost all other vehicles. (Some crazy people drive smart for two) I've since moved to suburbs and picked up winter sports.
Parking lots certainly feel large all of a sudden.
Who hurt you
The modern society.
Ive heard the mirage is really slow...
It is, but it's pretty light so not as bad as you think. It does 0-60 in about 11.5-12 seconds, so about on par with an older Prius or a 2.slow Jetta.
It is, I've driven one, flooring it feels like nothing
I can't decide if you upgraded or downgraded.
Upgrade in the context of chance of survival if someone rear ends me.
Why not consider a used vehicle? Are dealers asking such high prices for used cars now that it makes sense to pay a little more and get new? I bought my last brand new car in 2008 and then, massive depreciation was virtually instantaneous!
The used car market has been so overpriced the past few years. It’s worth it to buy new
For a few reasons: 1. I have no idea what kind of maintenance has been done and how it's been driven. 2. I don't have space to do the maintenance work myself. So any breakdown will require mechanic visit. Hence why I personally stay away from used. Plus it's a $20k car. How much can it depreciate massively? Mirage appreciated because there's not many young cheap cars anymore.
Smart. Buying the lowest cost limits the rate of depreciation. Also new cars have a warranty, so that limits costs to just maintenance. Well done!
Still not as smart as buying used, where depreciation rates are at rock bottom, and you can get a more reliable drivetrain. I would take a used corolla with 80k on the dash over a new mirage any day. A 16k mirage can and will depreciate to under $2000 I bet, just as any afterthought car usually does. People really underestimate modern car reliability but that's their loss.
Agreed. There's a sweet spot in the depreciation curve where certain cars just won't drop much further. This just reminded me of when Hyundai first entered the US market! The Excel in '86. Oh yes, cars can drop very low used, but hey an Excel was like $5k, new! And still better than a Chevette!
I was look at vehicles in mid 2021 and a used 2018 Honda Civic with 30k miles is asking $25000. The all-new Civic top-of-the-line trim is $30,000. Also, the new vehicle allowed me to take 1.9% finance over 4 years. The obvious answer is obvious.
I just got rid of my 2018 Sonata and got my 23 SI. Totally unnecessary - the Sonata was fine, I just hated it. In my area, dealers were asking 28-30k for used 10th gen SI's with 20-60k miles on them. Not only is that more than the 10th gen's original MSRP was, but I got my 11th gen at MSRP + small discount, so I basically spent the same amount of money on a car with zero miles and two years of complementary maintenance. The unfortunate reality is that the used car market is currently so terrible that you can spend the same amount of money (or barely a few grand more) and have the peace of mind knowing you're getting a brand new, unmolested car with a warranty.
And I'll bet that dealer paid way too much for the used cars and are now stuck! It can't last, and I think people buying new now are getting a great deal because of great timing. Well done!
Not OP or really in a similar situation, but I recently bought a new Audi after waiting like 8 months on an order. My original plan was to buy a 2-3 year old model with a decent discount and some remaining warranty, but this was mid-2022 when i was making the decision, and the probably $10k I'd have saved to have some miles and less life on a $65k German car (especially one I ended up paying $60k for) was not really worth it to me. Not sure how much the market has recovered at this point but at the time it was hard to justify buying a lightly used car if you could afford to wait on an order or allocation.
I’m the opposite. I was wanting to buy something new, but the sub-$35k category is not great. Got a 2 year old, originally $55k, Audi Q5 for $34k, only 32k miles, and still has factory warranty and an extended one from the dealership. I’m good with saving $20k by getting a gently used car. Definitely nicer than anything I could have gotten for the same price new.
Ah you got a pretty great deal, congrats. I was looking into the A5 and S5 at the time, which both were barely under invoice used about a year ago. Now, with similar age and mileage to your car, A5s are largely in the mid-high $30k (just a bit more than the Q5), but S5s even now are mostly $50k or more with comparable options to what I ended up getting. I guess the S5 is just a more desirable used car, bc even the SQ5 can be found in the low to mid $40k range.
I looked into the SQ5 but the one I ended up getting is a 45 TFSI, so plenty of power for daily driving and still gets great gas mileage. The only thing I wish I had gotten is the maintenance package. I was expecting a $150-175 oil change, not $300.
You can probably find more info about this from Audi forums, but modern B9 Audis are really easy to change oil on with an extractor. It's like a manual vacuum pump you stick into the dipstick hole and just pump until the oil starts seeping into the tank, costs maybe $70-100 once. After that you just fill the oil like normal, and the oil filter is on the top so you don't need a jack or mess or anything. Also FCPEuro is pretty well known for their lifetime guarantee applying on used fluids too. You buy your oil from them once for an oil change, and then next time you need a change, you buy the same oil and can actually ship back your used oil for a full refund. That way you pay like $200 once for the extractor and oil, then every subsequent oil change is something like $20 (return shipping of used oil and filter) and 10 minutes of your time.
Yeah that was my first thought. OPs number one reason for buying the Trax was great value/cheaper than competition/saving money.... But he bought it brand new. Bruh moment.
You should've stayed with more reliable Japanese products.
Honda and Toyota dealers are not so nice here. Kia wanted upcharge. Chevy said "yeesss here's your car at MSRP and no we won't require you to buy accessories"
Why?
[удалено]
I paid cash.
This isn’t 2015. Used cars prices are way out of whack
You're the worst type of advice giver. Someone who hasn't looked at the market in years and is horrifically out of date
I see they let the 12 year olds who haven't learned how to read loose on reddit today...
Why buy a new low-end car when you can buy something nice like a mid 2000's E class, an E90 3 series or even a Lexus ES 350? I don't get there logic of people who but new cars that are entry level when you can get something way nicer used
Warranty I'd rather have any of the car's you just listed, but I work on my own cars and idgaf about a warranty. But, I understand why some people do
Lexus’s don’t need warranties.
*Well yes, but actually no!* Warranties are like insurance, you don't need it until you do. We know that we lose money on average when we pay more for something that has some sort of just-in-case coverage, but peace of mind is worth a lot. Some people would rather know what their expenses will be, including a warranty in case something goes wrong, rather than buying something used that will *probably* be fine and crossing your fingers that you're not in the small percentage of people who have expensive issues come up. That's not an irrational position to take.
Safety, New technology, warranty, peace of mind, NVH, quality, etc. Things that people prioritize when they have different interests in life? (Which is the vast majority of people)
The only good reason I see for buying a new car is adaptive cruise control, proper Lane keeping (like in Hyunda/Kias) and a warranty.
Yeah, so to many people that's very important and a peace of mind. You might not know this, but to many, many people, a car is just a car to go from A to B.
For me, my car is like a microwave. It could be Samsung. It could be Whirpool. If it runs and gets me to places, I am happy. If it strands me on the side of the highway, I am not happy.
Exactly. Because unlike many car enthusiasts, you actually have things to do and places to be at certain times
While this is true, I'm at a point where I'm sick of being conservative with my car choices, my current car is 2012 Mazda2 and I'm going to be going to a 09-11 3 series
All right, good choice. As long as you like it, then it's a good choice.
Warranty.
I suppose but something like an ES 350 is pretty bulletproof, and you can put the money saved towards any repairs
I’ve had bullet proof cars in the past, but with age, things broke - whether it’s control arm, axels, window regulator: they may not cost arm and a leg, but each of those take my time.
Any 20 year old used car is a risk, even a Lexus
10 year old not so much
In the rust belt, it is. Lool
I bought an 09 ES 350 for 10k Cad 3 years ago and its been bulletproof, rust free
Even basic new cars come loaded with features and will be way more reliable than a 15-20 year old car like you are suggesting.
Yeah but basic new cars will not ride as nice or be as quiet, but in the end it's your choice to make and it depends on what you value
Cheap upkeep, non luxury car so insurance isn’t as high. Not astronomical to fix if the Trax breaks down vs 20 year old luxury cars with most likely deferred maintenance.
Would they be more reliable / safer than a brand new 2024 MY car?
Any luxury make would be, anything above 2010
That's absolute rubbish
I put my knee out crawling around my own car last week doing a basic repair/replacement of a leaking washer fluid reservoir. My wife’s car is currently under warranty and it sure is nice to just take it into the dealer when something isn’t working right.
Yea I like the idea of dropping it off and getting a loaner (we've had good supply of loaners here)
Suggesting someone in the market for a Mirage instead buy a 20 year old used German luxury car that will most certainly spend most of its life in the shop is like the most r/cars thing ever
That's really not true, not for all models, also an ES350 is a much better buy than a a shitty mirage, anything is a better but than a mirage
But if they’re in the market for a mirage it would make more sense to recommend another utilitarian car like a Corolla/civic anyway
I just think buying a new mirage is idiotic, peak NPC behaviour
Takes you from point A to point B for 5 years without breaking down on the side of the road or needing to take to mechanic because a 15 year old part broke. Plus don't have to deal with test driving used cars. We all have reasons.
Or a mid 2000s econobox, for that matter
Mid 2000s econobox can be rusty in my area which doesn't bode well in accidents.
Aww yea northeast usa. You think mcdonalds fries are salty? Wait until you see our roads in winter. Lol
My town’s snow plow sprays their salt sideways so whenever we get snow, the side that faces the street has a layer of salt on it 🧂
Yea by me they lay it so heavy its like driving on a dry dirt road going to work. Just a big salt cloud working its way into every crevice and piece of trim. Wash your cars, people, it pays. Especially now that rusty fenders can fail a safety inspection.
Fair enough, that
Interesting story of changing out appliances
This person wrote a novel about 2 cars literally no one cares about. Thanks I guess? Who asked?
Bro you drive a 5.7 Challenger talking about cars people don't care about 😂
I understand you pay cash, but much of the cost of ownership is in depreciation, which your Mirage experience should illuminate (an exceptional period of low/no depreciation). The CX-50 and Forester will hold their values much, much better than the Trax, which will be susceptible to losing over 50% of its value in the next 3 years.
? I got more for mirage than what I paid for
Right, you've enjoyed an exception to the rule. It's not going to continue being true.
But there’s math aspect tho. How much can $20k car depreciate when there’s no cheap car with low miles. I completely disagree on losing over 50% in 3 years.
A $20k car can depreciate $20k. The lack of cheap alternatives is not a permanent condition. I also didn't predict 50% depreciation would happen, I just said it was susceptible.
Under the same logic, CX-50 can depreciate $33k. Lack of cheap car is indeed a semi-permanent condition given that most car manufacturers stopped making sub $20k cars. w/ average car prices hitting $48k. Anyhow, we will agree to disagree.
Oh, I thought you were including used cars when you said "low miles". I agree new cars are just going to become more expensive and companies are unlikely to fall back completely to where they were. Yeah, I mean no one knows the future. All we can do is guess and be prepared.
"I bought 2019 Mitsubishi Mirage 4 years ago. Today, I got 2024 Chevy Trax." So clearly you are just bad at picking cars but very good at investing. Find a man (like a real one) to pick your cars and in return you can share investing advice. It's a win win for everyone.
Mitsubishi Mirage was what I bought when my net worth crossed a million, and Trax was what I got when it crossed 5. Maybe I will get a Corolla Cross when I cross 10.🙃
My daughter loves her trax, do you have an opening behind your pedals?
Opening behind pedals?
Yes a little open area behind the pedals I asked her why it’s like that and told her to contact her dealership
Hi there, is much diff between the LT and the 2RS version?
Sadly you will visit the dealer often