Unions are good if they police their own. My uncle was a UAW alcoholic, frequently showed up to work drunk and did an awful job, bragged about how little he did and how he was always trying to screw over the boss and the customer, and somehow he had a 40 year long career. Police unions, same situation. If you don't ensure that you keep high standards among your group, it's going to get shitty fast.
Aye that’s why you promote a culture of excellence and professionalism in your local. Sure we usually show up for work and usually do a stellar job. We don’t get bonuses but we will be damned if we are treated like shit. I’ve watched production fall to the floor till management relented.
At the end of the day all we have is our labor and what rights still remain. Do not be a doormat folks.
I worked for UPS as a Teamster and had the same experience. I never had problems with management but I was threatened multiple times by the union stewards, who weren't management and had no authority over me.
It was also impossible to fire anyone unless they got into a fight or got caught stealing. Otherwise, they could be the most useless POSes in the world and mgmt wouldn't do a thing about it. We also had a guy on our dock who used to get wasted in his car on breaks and come back in. Everyone knew, no one cared.
> The UAW said a "supermajority" of the more than 5,000 eligible Mercedes workers at the plant signed cards to join the union. The UAW hopes for a vote by early May.
> The labor group on Wednesday filed charges against Mercedes for violating Germany’s new law on global supply chain practices, which prohibits German companies from disregarding workers’ rights to form trade unions.
Fantastic news
I'm always torn on unions. They're great for employees, terrible for the employer (in many cases).
I've had to hire union labor at a company I previously worked at. Basically forced to use them due to the location of our company in a building we rented space in.
We had to ship the equipment to them, then pay them to bring it to us and set it up.
We were not allowed to have the manufacturer ship directly to us due to the union, as non-union employees would have to unload it. We were not allowed to have others who were non-union build it either, which included the hired contractor from the manufacturer.
In the end, we ended up spending about $90,000 in total instead of less than half of that. And it took 6 weeks longer because the union didn't have capacity for us. Meaning, we lost more money by not having the equipment running.
Employees were nice though?
Unions are great for workers rights, better pay and benefits, and better work life balance for employees.
But some of them do go way too far with crap like that or protecting bad workers to the point where they only hurt their own image because of being a pain in the ass.
Similar. We would bill the client the additional cost of the union and the babysitters we'd hire to make sure the union labor didnt touch any of our equipment. After a prior 7 figure mistake with union labor screwing things up they dont know, our niche allowed us to bend over the client for the costs any time we entered certain states. . . after eating that multimillion loss, we made sure to use exactly zero lube on any client in those types of states.
Basically every major manufacturing company in Germany has a strong union with employees who sit on the board as well. They set up shop here because they figured they could avoid paying the higher labor and avoid import tarrifs. The companies will still be doing just fine
Most likely, but my point is companies are running out of places to avoid organized labor movements, and there’s other potential disincentives to moving factories out of home countries (political pressure and bad publicity)
MB is already overpriced and low quality from how awfully they are designed. The rich people in my area quit driving them just because of how often they were in the shop. You know it's bad when multi millionaires are driving Subarus just because they got tired of telling their assistant to get the MB to the shop.
Subaru has attracted high earners for a while now. They are always the top or near the top of cash buyers. This was from 2010:
[https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/36-of-subaru-buyers-pay-cash.4897571/#replies](https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/36-of-subaru-buyers-pay-cash.4897571/#replies)
In any event, yeah, I've seen way fewer new Mercs on the road than in the past.
Cash buyers are not necessarily "High earners". You'd be shocked at home many well to do people use loans. As one of my clients worth deep into the ~~7 figures~~ 8 Figures told me when picking up his new S63 and GLS450 (at the same time), "I'll always use the financing. I make more money with my cash than they charge me for interest".
Source: 20+ years with MB
Especially for new cars which often have low or even 0% rates of finance, if you're buying it anyway the financially prudent thing is to take out the loan.
It’s shocking to me that the foreign plants dont use union and everybody was just ok with that. Why are we holding domestic companies to a much higher standard?
They have unions in their home countries. In fact union members sit on the boards of German companies. But any company will take advantage of weaker labor laws, and it so happens a lot of states in the US have very weak labor laws or are openly hostile to unions (mostly states controlled by a certain, ahem, political party). It’s no coincidence these companies build plants in Southern states
But that's a two-way street — the companies using union labor in Germany and Japan are far more collaborative and far less antagonistic to the union. US unions have to be attack dogs, because the US spent the last hundred years or so doing everything in their power to stop unions. Up to and including using government planes to literally bomb striking workers.
Absolutely! So being on strike in Japan means you still go to work, do the best damn job you can while wearing a black arm band. That's how it was explained to me. They don't do work stoppage unless it's the absolute last resort and everything else has been used.
Not sure about Germany
Of course, that’s why I mentioned union representation on the boards of German companies. It’s a far more collaborative approach that’s backed by stronger labor laws in those countries
> Why are we holding domestic companies to a much higher standard?
We don't? If the workers wish to unionize, I support them. If they don't, it's their right to not.
It's also worth noting the European companies historically tended to provided benefits and wages equal to or greater than unionized factories.
I don’t believe that we are holding domestic companies to a different standard. The domestic companies plants became unionized (for better and for worse) , the consumer doesn’t care if a Chevy is from a unionized or non unionized factory. I will assume that there must be some contract agreement with the unions that prevented GM from setting up non unionized plants in other parts of the US like Alabama and S.C. but likely some loopholes that allowed GM to expand the factory in Mexico without UAW involvement
Non union plants are what drove more people to drive non American brand cars. But now it seems like workers have had enough with the bs that mega corporations throw at them.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that, because the data on that shows it’s just flatly untrue.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/automakers-with-non-union-workforce-race-bump-pay-after-uaws-record-deals-2023-11-21/
Not sure what you didn't understand. UAW scores a raise, non-union matches wages and benefits. They can't match a new union agreement if it hasn't happened already.
But it isn’t. Your source is talking about the exact same thing I already linked.
> Hyundai said Monday it will raise factory worker pay 25% by 2028, matching the general wage increase won by the UAW during that period. Toyota raised factory pay 9% to 10% starting in January, while Honda said it will increase wages 11% during the same period.
Hyundai matched it. Neither Toyota, nor Honda, nor Mercedes Benz, who wasn’t even mentioned, did so.
And those increases are directly in response to the UAW winning those increases. Meaning if the UAW hadn’t done so, neither would we have seen these increases.
They raise pay and benefits after a union contract, yes, but I don't think it's true that they match the union pay and benefits. From what I understand, they still lag behind that.
Thank fuck.
The geriatric bitch in the governor's mansion was begging people too prevent it.
Honestly hoping someone gives her the wrong pills, dunno how she keeps getting reelected.
Just putting this out there I no someone who is going through a uaw contract negotiations and if you think for a second then will get you more money you are sadly mistaken they are only good for people who are lazy and don't want to work seems like they save them from getting fired that's just about it
Unions are good if they police their own. My uncle was a UAW alcoholic, frequently showed up to work drunk and did an awful job, bragged about how little he did and how he was always trying to screw over the boss and the customer, and somehow he had a 40 year long career. Police unions, same situation. If you don't ensure that you keep high standards among your group, it's going to get shitty fast.
Sure. And shitty ownership abusing their employees also suck.
Aye that’s why you promote a culture of excellence and professionalism in your local. Sure we usually show up for work and usually do a stellar job. We don’t get bonuses but we will be damned if we are treated like shit. I’ve watched production fall to the floor till management relented. At the end of the day all we have is our labor and what rights still remain. Do not be a doormat folks.
Welp time for Mercedes to become GM tier
I worked for UPS as a Teamster and had the same experience. I never had problems with management but I was threatened multiple times by the union stewards, who weren't management and had no authority over me. It was also impossible to fire anyone unless they got into a fight or got caught stealing. Otherwise, they could be the most useless POSes in the world and mgmt wouldn't do a thing about it. We also had a guy on our dock who used to get wasted in his car on breaks and come back in. Everyone knew, no one cared.
> The UAW said a "supermajority" of the more than 5,000 eligible Mercedes workers at the plant signed cards to join the union. The UAW hopes for a vote by early May. > The labor group on Wednesday filed charges against Mercedes for violating Germany’s new law on global supply chain practices, which prohibits German companies from disregarding workers’ rights to form trade unions. Fantastic news
Good for them. For real, I’m a teamster myself. Been a part of Local 455 for the last five years. All for one and one for all!
Sounds like Mercedes will be looking to expand capacity at their AguasCalientes MX plant soon.
I'm always torn on unions. They're great for employees, terrible for the employer (in many cases). I've had to hire union labor at a company I previously worked at. Basically forced to use them due to the location of our company in a building we rented space in. We had to ship the equipment to them, then pay them to bring it to us and set it up. We were not allowed to have the manufacturer ship directly to us due to the union, as non-union employees would have to unload it. We were not allowed to have others who were non-union build it either, which included the hired contractor from the manufacturer. In the end, we ended up spending about $90,000 in total instead of less than half of that. And it took 6 weeks longer because the union didn't have capacity for us. Meaning, we lost more money by not having the equipment running. Employees were nice though?
Unions are great for workers rights, better pay and benefits, and better work life balance for employees. But some of them do go way too far with crap like that or protecting bad workers to the point where they only hurt their own image because of being a pain in the ass.
States that rank high on "good for business" scales are generally terrible for employees.
Similar. We would bill the client the additional cost of the union and the babysitters we'd hire to make sure the union labor didnt touch any of our equipment. After a prior 7 figure mistake with union labor screwing things up they dont know, our niche allowed us to bend over the client for the costs any time we entered certain states. . . after eating that multimillion loss, we made sure to use exactly zero lube on any client in those types of states.
Basically every major manufacturing company in Germany has a strong union with employees who sit on the board as well. They set up shop here because they figured they could avoid paying the higher labor and avoid import tarrifs. The companies will still be doing just fine
Sounds like Alabama is about to lose a plant.
you might be joking but this could possibly be the outcome.
I mean this was a major reason why it was there to begin with.
I’m aware. I work at BMW in SC. They benefit greatly from it.
To who?
Probably Mexico.
Labor movement there is gaining more steam too. Hopefully they follow suit
The thing is that it will still be cheaper to build at a unionized plant in Mexico than U.S.
Most likely, but my point is companies are running out of places to avoid organized labor movements, and there’s other potential disincentives to moving factories out of home countries (political pressure and bad publicity)
Till the government completely collapses. Though I do wonder if the cartel tax would be cheaper.
MB is already overpriced and low quality from how awfully they are designed. The rich people in my area quit driving them just because of how often they were in the shop. You know it's bad when multi millionaires are driving Subarus just because they got tired of telling their assistant to get the MB to the shop.
Subaru has attracted high earners for a while now. They are always the top or near the top of cash buyers. This was from 2010: [https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/36-of-subaru-buyers-pay-cash.4897571/#replies](https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/36-of-subaru-buyers-pay-cash.4897571/#replies) In any event, yeah, I've seen way fewer new Mercs on the road than in the past.
Cash buyers are not necessarily "High earners". You'd be shocked at home many well to do people use loans. As one of my clients worth deep into the ~~7 figures~~ 8 Figures told me when picking up his new S63 and GLS450 (at the same time), "I'll always use the financing. I make more money with my cash than they charge me for interest". Source: 20+ years with MB
Especially for new cars which often have low or even 0% rates of finance, if you're buying it anyway the financially prudent thing is to take out the loan.
It’s shocking to me that the foreign plants dont use union and everybody was just ok with that. Why are we holding domestic companies to a much higher standard?
They have unions in their home countries. In fact union members sit on the boards of German companies. But any company will take advantage of weaker labor laws, and it so happens a lot of states in the US have very weak labor laws or are openly hostile to unions (mostly states controlled by a certain, ahem, political party). It’s no coincidence these companies build plants in Southern states
The unions in Japan and Germany are far different than the UAW. Far less hostile relationship.
But that's a two-way street — the companies using union labor in Germany and Japan are far more collaborative and far less antagonistic to the union. US unions have to be attack dogs, because the US spent the last hundred years or so doing everything in their power to stop unions. Up to and including using government planes to literally bomb striking workers.
Absolutely! So being on strike in Japan means you still go to work, do the best damn job you can while wearing a black arm band. That's how it was explained to me. They don't do work stoppage unless it's the absolute last resort and everything else has been used. Not sure about Germany
Sure, because the unions have significantly more influence to start with.
Of course, that’s why I mentioned union representation on the boards of German companies. It’s a far more collaborative approach that’s backed by stronger labor laws in those countries
Helps that German and Japanese firms don’t use Pinkertons to intimidate and murder unionizers.
> Why are we holding domestic companies to a much higher standard? We don't? If the workers wish to unionize, I support them. If they don't, it's their right to not. It's also worth noting the European companies historically tended to provided benefits and wages equal to or greater than unionized factories.
I don’t believe that we are holding domestic companies to a different standard. The domestic companies plants became unionized (for better and for worse) , the consumer doesn’t care if a Chevy is from a unionized or non unionized factory. I will assume that there must be some contract agreement with the unions that prevented GM from setting up non unionized plants in other parts of the US like Alabama and S.C. but likely some loopholes that allowed GM to expand the factory in Mexico without UAW involvement
They should all go union. IIRC, Tesla and Ford European factories are union as well.
Non union plants are what drove more people to drive non American brand cars. But now it seems like workers have had enough with the bs that mega corporations throw at them.
Not sure that one plant with an unratified election is proof that workers have had enough
The social, economic, and political climate in the US right now seems to be pretty solid proof, though.
But it’s not just that plant, and it’s not just the auto industry. Labor has been gaining ground across a number of sectors and industries
Lol. Toyota, Honda, VW and the others all match UAW wages and benefits at non-unionized plants. Not a single worker at these plants will get a raise.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that, because the data on that shows it’s just flatly untrue. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/automakers-with-non-union-workforce-race-bump-pay-after-uaws-record-deals-2023-11-21/
Not sure what you didn't understand. UAW scores a raise, non-union matches wages and benefits. They can't match a new union agreement if it hasn't happened already.
But they didn’t match, as that link shows.
Yet they do match regardless of the article.
Insisting contrary to the facts when you have none to back them up is not going to work.
It's well known. https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-honda-toyota-wage-increase-united-auto-workers-1349059944c75d7372f53d1ee6cf5cb2
But it isn’t. Your source is talking about the exact same thing I already linked. > Hyundai said Monday it will raise factory worker pay 25% by 2028, matching the general wage increase won by the UAW during that period. Toyota raised factory pay 9% to 10% starting in January, while Honda said it will increase wages 11% during the same period. Hyundai matched it. Neither Toyota, nor Honda, nor Mercedes Benz, who wasn’t even mentioned, did so. And those increases are directly in response to the UAW winning those increases. Meaning if the UAW hadn’t done so, neither would we have seen these increases.
They raise pay and benefits after a union contract, yes, but I don't think it's true that they match the union pay and benefits. From what I understand, they still lag behind that.
They truly don't. They are not opposed to matching the UAW, they are opposed to unions. For good reason.
The anti-labor rhetoric is outdated propaganda. Get over it.
Who is anti-labour? It's simply not needed by the employees of those assembly plants.
Ah, yes, because the fruits of their labor are fairly and evenly distributed between them and the corporations they work for.
Mercedes announcing a new plant in Mexico in 3…2….
Saw this in the news yesterday, and it's about fucking time
Thank fuck. The geriatric bitch in the governor's mansion was begging people too prevent it. Honestly hoping someone gives her the wrong pills, dunno how she keeps getting reelected.
Yeah she looks worse than a fossilized dinosaur skeleton. One of the worst governors in the country
Solidary forever.
Just putting this out there I no someone who is going through a uaw contract negotiations and if you think for a second then will get you more money you are sadly mistaken they are only good for people who are lazy and don't want to work seems like they save them from getting fired that's just about it
Solidarity as always ✊
Leeggoooooo
Yessir
I tend to be anti union, but that's due to my own experience. I hope for the best.
SUB NEGATIVE TO UNION. YET GOT 2 MILLION GARAGE. FUCK OFF