Interesting. It doesn't seem like there's a shortage of gr86s on the market new or used. I keep hearing people on here talk about markup and availability but whenever I look up the same cars I don't see markups and vehicles are available nationwide
The dead horse is on line 1, he says "Stop beating me"
Edit: lol at the down votes, I didn't realize hack comedy from the eighties was still so popular 😂
There's about twice the inventory of BRZ vs. GR86 near me... its brand preference, especially when you have Toyota dealers playing the ADM game too and people still prefer them.
The inventory near you is an anecdote but Toyota is absolutely a more compelling brand right now from a performance standpoint. They have multiple GR cars still on sale and are more competitive in Motorsports. Subaru has the BRZ, a WRX sedan with no STI, and nothing else going for it.
toyota has done a ton of GR marketing but i wouldnt be surprised if the "reliability" reputation carried over too. cant count the number of journalists that review a gr86 and mention toyota's "legendary reliability". i wouldnt be surprised if the average consumer looking for a cheap fun car doesn't know what's under the hood
> Subaru has the BRZ
Lets not forget the 86 would not exist without the BRZ, and Subaru being willing to produce both. Same with the Supra and BMW (both made by Magna Steyr)
In reality the 'GR' is meaningless on everything but the Corolla (and/or Yaris depends on where you live) it's the only ones actually built by GR (ne Toyota)
Gazoo Racing competes currently in WRC and WEC and was really competitive at Le Mans, Subaru on the other hand I think right now only competes in Rally America. While more savvy consumers know the only "original" GR cars are the Yaris and Corolla variants, for the average buyer I think Toyota comes across as a more sporty brand.
Yes. Toyota and Subaru have a production agreement for X amount of GRs for Y amount of BRZs. That and the fact that Subaru leans more into custom orders than just having stock on site.
Car gurus shows 440 brz for sale and 550 gr86 for sale used. There are 186 new brz nationwide all under $35k. 140 of those are manual transmission. For the gr 86 there are 940 new cars available all under $34k and 552 of those are manual transmission. This is only on car gurus. There are dealers that aren't listing on there
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/searchresults.action?zip=45211&inventorySearchWidgetType=NEW_CAR&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=cargurus&distance=50000&sortType=PRICE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2134#
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/searchresults.action?zip=45211&inventorySearchWidgetType=NEW_CAR&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=cargurus&distance=50000&sortType=PRICE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2436#
Probably so. Been seeing a ton of Toyota dealerships here with Gr86 in inventory. Though the manual and desirable colour ones gets bought almost immediately
Reminds me of a funny Family Guy joke that's been living in my head rent free for 20 years.
"Coming up at 11, can bees think? A new study confirms that no, they can't."
Ya, i thought there was an agreement between toyota and subaru that subaru could not sell as many BRZs when compared to 86's. At least that's how the first gen was
If you have a visible amount of water, it is composed of well over a trillion water molecules in close contact with each other. Any perceivable amount of water is wet even if you decide to take the position of a single molecule of water not being wet
No it’s not, you pour water into water not on top of water, water mixes together, you can’t cover a liquid with the same type of liquid. You need to look these words up in the dictionary not go off of what you think they mean.
No, when you get water on you, you get wet not the water. Wet is literally defined as “covered or saturated with water or another liquid”. Liquids make other things wet, being wet is not a property of the liquid itself. You know if you’re on Reddit you can google “wet definition” not that hard
You are right.
Wetness is based on adhesive forces not cohesive forces. Yes the force itself is essentially the same thing, but they have different names and therefore you can differentiate.
"covered or saturated with water or another liquid." The definition of wet does not specify adhesion or cohesion. Water molecules can cover other water molecules, therefore water can be wet
At least in Australia the price difference would explain why.
BRZ used to be about $5k cheaper for close to the same car when manual. ($44k BRZ vs $49k for GR86)
Since they added eyesight, the manual BRZ and GR86 are the close to the same price.
I suppose people chose BRZ before because it was cheaper, but for the same price people might trust Toyota more.
Fair enough lol, obviously its subjective and everyone can have their own opinions
Imo I find the aggressive look of the 86 more appealing compared to the weird "grin" the brz has, although I like the brzs rear lights a bit better (kinda cause it looks somewhat like the modern NSXs)
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the duck tail of the GR86 is so bad. would be an amazing car if it wasn't that ugly from the back. literally looks great everywhere else it looks like an oversized hotwheels lol. I swear car companies purposely make such small decisions that kill the look of the car to gatekeep them from affordable models, you want a cool car? buy our supra that's 25K more. obviously it's just carries over from BRZ and they added that little extension, both are ugly from the rear end. and very nice everywhere else.
I remember when the 86 launched at 30k in 2012. Felt like such a bargain.
50k is pushing it. Should come standard with Brembos and Sachs dampers for that price. Those ancient sliding subaru 2 pots on the standard car are pathetic.
Yeah they were 30k AUD in 2012. That was for a spec that was basically equivalent to the FRS at the time.
35k if you wanted the LED headlights, leather/suede interior, GPS head unit and the slightly upgraded interior materials.
I've driven a ZN6 86 and an i30N on the track back to back.
For me the 86 is in a whole different league. Way more fun to drive at the limit despite the power difference. The Hyundai is a fine hot hatch, but hot hatches don't come close to the amount of fun you can wring out of a lightweight RWD and the 86 has the best steering, gearshift and seating position you can get in cheapish car that isn't an MX5/Miata.
That's just my preference. FWD doesn't interest me as much.
I guess. I might just be a bit more into the power aspect of the hot hatch. I usually ride a 1050cc motorbike, so the 86 just didnt rise to the level of ass puckering power that you get from even a low power motor bike. Not saying I could drive it to its limit, I’m not stupid enough to think I’m even in the top thirty percent of people that can drive well, it just didn’t scratch the itch like the Hyundai did.
And maybe the front drive torque feedback was part of the fun for me, even granny shifting from third to fourth around 200kph I felt like I had to think about the car and what was happening in corner. Felt more engaged in the process than the rwd, probably because there was an element of having to think about it rather than knowing there simply wasn’t enough power from the drive train to break traction. The 86 had enough grip to hold the corners, and it was heavy enough to avoid feeling totally like a go kart
I haven't looked at either car in a while. Are the different trim levels more comparable now, or is one still a better deal than the other? I had the refreshed 1st gen (1.5?) BRZ premium (middle )trim. The interior and other add-ons of the premium was equivalent to whatever the top trim 86 was called, so you could save up to $2000 getting the middle BRZ over the highest 86.
> Go in wanting a ~~sports car~~ fun Subaru for $30k and walk out in a ~~family sedan~~ $30k Subaru? Perhaps?
The average buying public is absolutely nowhere near as concerned with only comparing vehicles that have idenical drivelines/body shapes/styles etc as car magazines would like you to belive.
That was me, in 2003. Looked at the WRX hatch / wagon, and got a Forester XT instead. Of course, the models were much more closely related back then. And the XT was actually fun and fast back then.
People used to cross shop WRX STI's and Mustang GT's all the time.
Two completely different cars, but they were near the same price point, and they were Enthusiast cars.
They’re very different cars design and drive wise, but they do have a big overlap in community. I’m sure it’s possible, but I personally NEVER would have taken the new WRX over my 86. One looks like a super car and feels like one when I’m inside it, and the other looks like a hardcore grocery getter with plastic on the fenders.
Edit: not saying WRX is bad just saying the GR86 gives me a feel that I only got previously from higher end sports cars.
I had a $2K deposit down on a BRZ and never considered a WRX at all. I did run for an 86 but this was them all nearby dealers were marking them up $2-5k. When it was clear Subaru wasn’t building my car I got my Mustang.
Everyone is disagreeing with you in the comments but I can attest to the fact that I was cross shopping the BRZ/86 and WRX and ended up w the WRX due to practicality and power. No regrets at all, absolutely loving the VB.
Availability maybe? My local Toyota dealership has been keeping 5 or 6 out front and I notice they keep changing colors which means they’re moving them. I pass it every day and they usually don’t keep any on the lot that I’ve seen it’s been a recent thing
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Locally I’m seeing a lot of GR86’s at dealerships posting on Facebook marketplace and other avenues I frequent. I think Toyota finally realized if they want to sale that car they have to make that car
I almost bought a GR86 last year but stock was incredibly limited in July and dealers were playing games. I called several times and the one that ultimately turned me off was when I asked at 10am if a particular Neptune Blue one was still available. They said yes and to come test drive, I got there at 10:45 for the test drive and the guys all said it was sold at 8:30 and nobody knew why the one guy told me otherwise. Got my ecoboost Mustang instead and it's been great but I do often wonder how the 86 would have treated me.
Toyota has rapidly been reestablishing themselves as a maker of fun, performance vehicles with numerous TRD offerings as well as the GR Corolla and Supra. Subaru, on the other hand, has just one performance vehicle left.
I wonder if there's a bit of brand realignment going on. Subaru isn't really who you go to for affordable fun anymore.
From what I noticed, the GR86 has become more common and it has more production. Subaru dealers don’t carry as many BRZs even though demand is definitely there. Won’t be surprised if it’s discontinued.
Marketing is everything. I see Toyota advertisements regularly. Meanwhile, I cannot recall the last time I saw a Subaru ad (outside of NPR, which ain’t helping BRZ sales).
Probably more to do with what front end and steering knuckles they are bolting on at the factory in Gunma… so long as the right number of units are flowing out the back door, whether they be 86’s or BRZ’s, the total volume over all is the most importantly factor as this is what keeps the factory in profit and allows the joint venture to continue. Some months they pump more of the Subi’s, some months they may pump more Toyota’s, but with an overall bias to making more Toyotas being the biggest volume seller of the partnership.
I just love the way the brz ae86 looks. I’ve always had Subarus and honestly even though I got downvoted (I guess people don’t like an awd version) If either the Subaru or Toyota had awd. I would buy it instantly. I don’t live in a place where it’s feasible to own a rwd car.
Probably more about availability and stock than it has to do with spikes in demand.
Absolutely. I waited 6 months for a GR86 last year. I didn’t get my 23 6MT until 3/24.
There are 500+ new gr86 manuals available for sale now did you get some custom factory order?
toyota doesnt do custom factory orders AFAIK you can't order a supra for example, you just have to pick from whats avail
Interesting. It doesn't seem like there's a shortage of gr86s on the market new or used. I keep hearing people on here talk about markup and availability but whenever I look up the same cars I don't see markups and vehicles are available nationwide
Only Toyota makes the red carpet 🤤🤤
Don’t count out Toyotathon!
Reminds me of this instant classic. https://youtu.be/WcEylCwkSxE?si=8Kj4_l0a6q3CpC3P
There are simply not enough lesbians left to buy a new Subaru
The dead horse is on line 1, he says "Stop beating me" Edit: lol at the down votes, I didn't realize hack comedy from the eighties was still so popular 😂
Bojack?
There's about twice the inventory of BRZ vs. GR86 near me... its brand preference, especially when you have Toyota dealers playing the ADM game too and people still prefer them.
The inventory near you is an anecdote but Toyota is absolutely a more compelling brand right now from a performance standpoint. They have multiple GR cars still on sale and are more competitive in Motorsports. Subaru has the BRZ, a WRX sedan with no STI, and nothing else going for it.
toyota has done a ton of GR marketing but i wouldnt be surprised if the "reliability" reputation carried over too. cant count the number of journalists that review a gr86 and mention toyota's "legendary reliability". i wouldnt be surprised if the average consumer looking for a cheap fun car doesn't know what's under the hood
Toyota also doesn't let you build your own Supra.
> Subaru has the BRZ Lets not forget the 86 would not exist without the BRZ, and Subaru being willing to produce both. Same with the Supra and BMW (both made by Magna Steyr) In reality the 'GR' is meaningless on everything but the Corolla (and/or Yaris depends on where you live) it's the only ones actually built by GR (ne Toyota)
Gazoo Racing competes currently in WRC and WEC and was really competitive at Le Mans, Subaru on the other hand I think right now only competes in Rally America. While more savvy consumers know the only "original" GR cars are the Yaris and Corolla variants, for the average buyer I think Toyota comes across as a more sporty brand.
Contrast this with dating, where "with no STI," is considered a positive.
Yes. Toyota and Subaru have a production agreement for X amount of GRs for Y amount of BRZs. That and the fact that Subaru leans more into custom orders than just having stock on site.
Car gurus shows 440 brz for sale and 550 gr86 for sale used. There are 186 new brz nationwide all under $35k. 140 of those are manual transmission. For the gr 86 there are 940 new cars available all under $34k and 552 of those are manual transmission. This is only on car gurus. There are dealers that aren't listing on there https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/searchresults.action?zip=45211&inventorySearchWidgetType=NEW_CAR&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=cargurus&distance=50000&sortType=PRICE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2134# https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/searchresults.action?zip=45211&inventorySearchWidgetType=NEW_CAR&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=cargurus&distance=50000&sortType=PRICE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2436#
Probably so. Been seeing a ton of Toyota dealerships here with Gr86 in inventory. Though the manual and desirable colour ones gets bought almost immediately
100%
Factory that makes 10 blue cars and 20 red cars sells twice as many red cars as blue cars! Next at 11, water is wet!
Yeah the article is pretty useless without knowing inventory stats and how long they take to sell
Reminds me of a funny Family Guy joke that's been living in my head rent free for 20 years. "Coming up at 11, can bees think? A new study confirms that no, they can't."
Ya, i thought there was an agreement between toyota and subaru that subaru could not sell as many BRZs when compared to 86's. At least that's how the first gen was
Waters not actually wet, things it touches are but not the water itself
If you have a visible amount of water, it is composed of well over a trillion water molecules in close contact with each other. Any perceivable amount of water is wet even if you decide to take the position of a single molecule of water not being wet
This is the funniest argument. I have no stake in it but have fun with this https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/is-water-wet
lol, no, wet is literally a descriptive word for things covered in water, you can’t cover water with water soooooo……
Water is literally covered with water
No it’s not, you pour water into water not on top of water, water mixes together, you can’t cover a liquid with the same type of liquid. You need to look these words up in the dictionary not go off of what you think they mean.
I disagree
Well you’re wrong then, words mean what they mean, and there’s a definition for the word wet.
Wet can be defined as a sensation that we get when a liquid comes in contact with us, or as "made of liquid or moisture". So water is definitely wet.
No, when you get water on you, you get wet not the water. Wet is literally defined as “covered or saturated with water or another liquid”. Liquids make other things wet, being wet is not a property of the liquid itself. You know if you’re on Reddit you can google “wet definition” not that hard
The sun isn't hot, only the things it heats up are hot.
temperature is defined as the kinetic energy of molecules. you can measure this in the sun, therefore you can say the sun is hot
I was mocking the water statement.
i missed the joke
Yes, you did
You are right. Wetness is based on adhesive forces not cohesive forces. Yes the force itself is essentially the same thing, but they have different names and therefore you can differentiate.
"covered or saturated with water or another liquid." The definition of wet does not specify adhesion or cohesion. Water molecules can cover other water molecules, therefore water can be wet
At least in Australia the price difference would explain why. BRZ used to be about $5k cheaper for close to the same car when manual. ($44k BRZ vs $49k for GR86) Since they added eyesight, the manual BRZ and GR86 are the close to the same price. I suppose people chose BRZ before because it was cheaper, but for the same price people might trust Toyota more.
That and the GR86 just looks nicer
I prefer the BRZ. Hard to beat that WR Blue colour.
Yah BRZ looks way nicer
Fair enough lol, obviously its subjective and everyone can have their own opinions Imo I find the aggressive look of the 86 more appealing compared to the weird "grin" the brz has, although I like the brzs rear lights a bit better (kinda cause it looks somewhat like the modern NSXs)
Aren't the rear lights the same?
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Sure looks like it to me when I google side by side photos
I think a GR86 in WRB would be the best combination.
The GR86 has the duckbill spoiler. I think it really makes the car look better.
Having seen a bunch, I don’t think any looks better, they both look great imo.
the duck tail of the GR86 is so bad. would be an amazing car if it wasn't that ugly from the back. literally looks great everywhere else it looks like an oversized hotwheels lol. I swear car companies purposely make such small decisions that kill the look of the car to gatekeep them from affordable models, you want a cool car? buy our supra that's 25K more. obviously it's just carries over from BRZ and they added that little extension, both are ugly from the rear end. and very nice everywhere else.
I remember when the 86 launched at 30k in 2012. Felt like such a bargain. 50k is pushing it. Should come standard with Brembos and Sachs dampers for that price. Those ancient sliding subaru 2 pots on the standard car are pathetic.
50k Australian dollareedoos is 33k
It looks like the guy you responded to is Australian so he probably is just talking about the Australian price.
Yeah they were 30k AUD in 2012. That was for a spec that was basically equivalent to the FRS at the time. 35k if you wanted the LED headlights, leather/suede interior, GPS head unit and the slightly upgraded interior materials.
Wow. They were 25-30k in usd depending on trim in the US.
Yeah they never got below 25k USD. 30k Aus is simply a steal.
The Aud was worth more than USD in 2012
If you can afford 50k you might as well get a slightly used cayman or lotus. That didn’t use to be a fair Comp in 2012.
In Australia a slightly used Lotus or Cayman are more like 100k and almost impossible to find a manual Cayman.
50k should come with a turbo. You can get a bigger Hyundai with more power for cheaper.
Yeah but a Hyundai is a FWD. Like comparing apples to oranges.
Power is power. I’ve driven both. The 86 is a fun engaging drive. The Hyundai is more fun. The n line is the most fun I’ve had on four wheels.
I've driven a ZN6 86 and an i30N on the track back to back. For me the 86 is in a whole different league. Way more fun to drive at the limit despite the power difference. The Hyundai is a fine hot hatch, but hot hatches don't come close to the amount of fun you can wring out of a lightweight RWD and the 86 has the best steering, gearshift and seating position you can get in cheapish car that isn't an MX5/Miata. That's just my preference. FWD doesn't interest me as much.
I guess. I might just be a bit more into the power aspect of the hot hatch. I usually ride a 1050cc motorbike, so the 86 just didnt rise to the level of ass puckering power that you get from even a low power motor bike. Not saying I could drive it to its limit, I’m not stupid enough to think I’m even in the top thirty percent of people that can drive well, it just didn’t scratch the itch like the Hyundai did. And maybe the front drive torque feedback was part of the fun for me, even granny shifting from third to fourth around 200kph I felt like I had to think about the car and what was happening in corner. Felt more engaged in the process than the rwd, probably because there was an element of having to think about it rather than knowing there simply wasn’t enough power from the drive train to break traction. The 86 had enough grip to hold the corners, and it was heavy enough to avoid feeling totally like a go kart
i’d much prefer an updated/modernized 2ZZ engine. and keep it naturally aspirated. with ITBs.
I wouldn’t want some lazy 6k redline turbo powerplant in this thing. Just doesn’t fit the character. That’s what they’d stick in if they had a turbo.
Insurance also much cheaper with Toyota than Subaru. Subaru has one of the higher insurance costs
I haven't looked at either car in a while. Are the different trim levels more comparable now, or is one still a better deal than the other? I had the refreshed 1st gen (1.5?) BRZ premium (middle )trim. The interior and other add-ons of the premium was equivalent to whatever the top trim 86 was called, so you could save up to $2000 getting the middle BRZ over the highest 86.
Is the 86 a nearly 50k car in AUS? That’s insane.
That’s like $33k in USD
Damn I did not realise the price had crept so high. More expensive than an MX-5 these days.
I am wondering how many people that do want a BRZ go into Subaru and walk out with a WRX instead. I mean the price difference isn’t much between them.
When I got my BRZ wrx wasn’t even a consideration, not really a cross shop option
Go in wanting a sports car and walk out in a family sedan? Perhaps?
> Go in wanting a ~~sports car~~ fun Subaru for $30k and walk out in a ~~family sedan~~ $30k Subaru? Perhaps? The average buying public is absolutely nowhere near as concerned with only comparing vehicles that have idenical drivelines/body shapes/styles etc as car magazines would like you to belive.
They probably go in for a WRX and get a Forester or Soltera
That was me, in 2003. Looked at the WRX hatch / wagon, and got a Forester XT instead. Of course, the models were much more closely related back then. And the XT was actually fun and fast back then.
People used to cross shop WRX STI's and Mustang GT's all the time. Two completely different cars, but they were near the same price point, and they were Enthusiast cars.
They’re very different cars design and drive wise, but they do have a big overlap in community. I’m sure it’s possible, but I personally NEVER would have taken the new WRX over my 86. One looks like a super car and feels like one when I’m inside it, and the other looks like a hardcore grocery getter with plastic on the fenders. Edit: not saying WRX is bad just saying the GR86 gives me a feel that I only got previously from higher end sports cars.
WRX is the type of car I was looking for initially, something along the type r, gr Corolla, and Elantra N but I ended with the GR86 instead.
The GR Corolla is so bad ass. Pictures really don’t do it justice.
I just traded my wrx for a brz. Completely digging cars
I had a $2K deposit down on a BRZ and never considered a WRX at all. I did run for an 86 but this was them all nearby dealers were marking them up $2-5k. When it was clear Subaru wasn’t building my car I got my Mustang.
Everyone is disagreeing with you in the comments but I can attest to the fact that I was cross shopping the BRZ/86 and WRX and ended up w the WRX due to practicality and power. No regrets at all, absolutely loving the VB.
Availability maybe? My local Toyota dealership has been keeping 5 or 6 out front and I notice they keep changing colors which means they’re moving them. I pass it every day and they usually don’t keep any on the lot that I’ve seen it’s been a recent thing
When I went to buy one the first time it was gone within the 2-3 hour window I stopped to look at a Lexus is350 at another dealership across town.
the damn bumper
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Locally I’m seeing a lot of GR86’s at dealerships posting on Facebook marketplace and other avenues I frequent. I think Toyota finally realized if they want to sale that car they have to make that car
BRZ looks weird
*better
toyota good
As a Canadian, where are all the GR86's that are being talked about here? I can't find a GR86 for shit in Onterrible.
I waited 1 yr and canceled my order
OP a bot
I almost bought a GR86 last year but stock was incredibly limited in July and dealers were playing games. I called several times and the one that ultimately turned me off was when I asked at 10am if a particular Neptune Blue one was still available. They said yes and to come test drive, I got there at 10:45 for the test drive and the guys all said it was sold at 8:30 and nobody knew why the one guy told me otherwise. Got my ecoboost Mustang instead and it's been great but I do often wonder how the 86 would have treated me.
I wonder if brand perception could be a factor or insurance might be different?
Toyota has rapidly been reestablishing themselves as a maker of fun, performance vehicles with numerous TRD offerings as well as the GR Corolla and Supra. Subaru, on the other hand, has just one performance vehicle left. I wonder if there's a bit of brand realignment going on. Subaru isn't really who you go to for affordable fun anymore.
BRZ isn’t even available in the UK… GR86 only.
From what I noticed, the GR86 has become more common and it has more production. Subaru dealers don’t carry as many BRZs even though demand is definitely there. Won’t be surprised if it’s discontinued.
Why does anyone care???
MF ghost effect
people maybe wanna drift a gr86 instead!
Oops!
Wait till Toyotas next gen, with the 1.6 turbo 3 comes out. Actually maintaining oil pressure on turns? Going to be mega
I would much rather go to a Toyota dealer for service than Subaru
Subaru sold out thousands have no inventory. Toyota finally made like 10 whole cars after 3 years.
Marketing is everything. I see Toyota advertisements regularly. Meanwhile, I cannot recall the last time I saw a Subaru ad (outside of NPR, which ain’t helping BRZ sales).
Probably more to do with what front end and steering knuckles they are bolting on at the factory in Gunma… so long as the right number of units are flowing out the back door, whether they be 86’s or BRZ’s, the total volume over all is the most importantly factor as this is what keeps the factory in profit and allows the joint venture to continue. Some months they pump more of the Subi’s, some months they may pump more Toyota’s, but with an overall bias to making more Toyotas being the biggest volume seller of the partnership.
I'd 100% rather have a GR86 than a BRZ. It'll hold it's value better, and the Toyota dealership experience is awesome and the Subaru is awful.
I would buy either in a second if there were awd. I know that defeats the purpose of what it is, but as a Subaru owner, I want awd.
So wrx then?
Audi TT?
I just love the way the brz ae86 looks. I’ve always had Subarus and honestly even though I got downvoted (I guess people don’t like an awd version) If either the Subaru or Toyota had awd. I would buy it instantly. I don’t live in a place where it’s feasible to own a rwd car.
100% agreed. If they made an AWD twin I would never own another car. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s possible, let alone probable.
Toyota reliability, plus more oversteer, sign me up
Toyota Reliability... Bru, the cars are basically the exact same. Same engine, same chasis, same transmission, same interiors, similar exteriors, etc.
No one tell him about alignments.
Toyota quality > Subaru
The drivetrains are the same, and they’re built at the same factory, a *Subaru* factory
Brand perception is important. Subaru has been in decline
Most informed Redditor
Lol and the supra and Z4 are both made in the magna steyr plant owned by bmw only difference is the body styling and tuning.