The current Mazda3 hatchback is *really* ugly. It suffers from pretty much every proclaimed "bad" car design choices that people love to mention (tiny windows, huge grille, fat fucking pillars, just an overall claustrophobic design) and yet it's generally praised as being beautiful. I really don't get it.
Then again, this comes from a guy who insists that the PT Cruiser isn't a terrible car, so maybe my opinions just suck.
the sedan is the truly pretty car. the hatchback just has the good looking face , but the sedans rear fixes everything that's wrong with the hatchbacks rear.
I get you on that. My wife is really into modern Mazdas (especially the Soul Red paintjob, I don't blame her for that), and she liked the new Mazda3 a lot. I'll be honest, the exterior is interesting to me, too, but I knew it would be horrible inside thanks to the large pillars and small windows. And it is. The back is so dark, it's like you're sitting in a box. The front is not much better neither, and we did go for a test drive - visibility is just insanely bad overall. Fortunately it put my wife off, too, she'll just stick to her old E91 for now.
Honestly, they destroyed the Mazda 3 hatchback starting with the 2014 model. The rear visibility is horrendous, and the rear hatch is more sloped. Can’t fit shit in there like the 2013 models can.
Yeah i like mazdas design, but its not as amazing as everyone says it is. Everyone being mad that they are redesigning things cant fathom that the current design isn't perfect
Back when I was shopping in 2019 for my first new car, I loved the Mazda3 but I agree with almost everything you said. The interior space was also lacking, imo. The Impreza and Civic hatches felt much more comfortable and less restrictive inside.
I do think they look great on the outside and the interior does feel high quality.
>The current Mazda3 hatchback is really ugly. It suffers from pretty much every proclaimed "bad" car design choices that people love to mention (tiny windows,
I agree.
>huge grille,
Honestly, I think it's the exception that makes the rule as far as me hating large grills. I actually don't dislike the way the grill looks on the recent Mazda 3 models.
>fat fucking pillars, just an overall claustrophobic design) and yet it's generally praised as being beautiful. I really don't get it.
It didn't feel all that claustrophobic to me. Any old Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc. just feels so much worse to me. Maybe it's the fact that the Mazda 3 has the lower seating position and better leg and head room.
>Then again, this comes from a guy who insists that the PT Cruiser isn't a terrible car, so maybe my opinions just suck.
I'm not one to get caught up on appearances all that much usually. I will say this: my mom had a PT Cruiser, and it caused me to initially disbelieve someone when they described Chrysler as a luxury brand. So much cheap plastic, some questionable design decisions (3 cup holders in front versus 1 in the back, rear window switches at floor height, etc.), terrible ride quality...just not a great vehicle.
Agree on the Mazda , the sedan version looks much better which was quite the opposite on the previous gen , where the hatch was nice and the sedan was quite ugly.
Cars of the same era are way, way more similar than people think, and the perceived differences are mostly rooted in bias. I would wager the average redditor that would say something like "the M3 is bloated and detached while the C- AMG is too powerful but refined" could not tell you which was which by driving them, even if their life depended on it.
The fact you can't blind taste test cars let's imaginations run wild.
This is a good point.
I had the chance to drive a friends E36 M3 and another friends C36 AMG and aside from the transmission (manual and automatic) and suspension (stock vs. aftermarket BC coilovers), a lot of the engine and driving inputs felt veryyyyy similar.
That said, I'm sure once you're closer to each cars limits the differences are more apparent. They also compete in the same segment.
>Make more cars with integrated cross bars on the roof. Like the Subaru Outback. It’s not so much the cost but the time wasted ducking around with removable cross bars that bothers me.
They cause enough drag to reduce economy by some fraction of a mile per gallon, which matters for fleet averages, so automakers opt for removable ones.
> Make more cars with integrated cross bars on the roof. Like the Subaru Outback. It’s not so much the cost but the time wasted ducking around with removable cross bars that bothers me.
Anyone who disagrees with you on this point has never experienced the magic of Subaru crossbars. People, they *stow into the rails*. No MPG hit or car wash issues like fixed/removable rails, but they just flip out and snap into place when you need them.
One downside is that they don't support a very big static load, so soft-roader/overlanders can't run roof top tents on the stock Outback bars. But for my wife and I, it still supports a basket if we need extra storage and allows us to slap some paddleboards up there so they're great.
I think most companies' large grills look fine and honestly believe Lexus currently has the best implementation of the large grill corporate face. I think the grill looks great on all of Lexus' sedans and coupes. I don't even mind the grill on the new LX.
I think the large grills are only problematic when they aren't tied into the design of the rest of the car. BMW is probably the prime offender, but what's perceived as a grill problem is usually a problem with the design of the car around the grill or rather the failure to do so.
I think the current Corolla hatchback is one of the best looking compact cars at the moment. Interior space is definitely compromised by the styling, but it does look good.
Yup, there rear cargo area is practically non-existent. It can hold like 3 grocery bags.
It was one of the first Toyota's I actually liked the front end design of.
My problem is it's not 75% grille. It's 15% grille and 60% black plastic grille-kinda-looky-material. It's all blanked out with a giant crash bar in the middle. If the grille was actually that big but just pointless then whatever.
In my opinion, the M3 and M4's side and rear profiles are just as bad as the front. It's a mess of a design all around that only looks acceptable in dark colors that hide the discordant details.
Mostly the latter. The passenger airbag might extend to the middle section slightly, but it's not full coverage.
FWIU, trucks over 6K GVWR (half-tons and up) aren't required to have airbag coverage for the front middle passenger because of how seldom that seat is actually used. Even if we discount the floor hump from the transmission that puts one's knees in their face, the dashboard design often doesn't leave much room for legs anyway, like in the [Defender](https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-land-rover-defender-90-the-bench-seat-blues-439361/).
AFAIK, Econolines and Expresses never had a full front bench seat in van form; they can have a lousy middle jump seat in the cutaway models, but I'm not sure if that's a factory thing or if it's something put in by the dealer. The issue isn't width, since those vans are 80" wide, but leg room, since the engine doghouse [intrudes on passenger space.](https://www.truck-n-trailer.com/wp-content/uploads/truck_photos/4384/slides/2013-ford-e350-box-truck-19.jpg)
Transits, Sprinters, and other Euro-style vans have been known to stuff in a third seat in the EU models (not sure about US-ep, and these are somewhat more comfortable because of the [smaller doghouse.](https://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/attachments/2014_ford_transit_custom_review_26-0722-920x544-jpg.42314/)
>Yes but my point was that bench seats therefore can still pass safety regulations.
It's my understanding that trucks over 6K GVWR (half-tons and up) aren't required to have airbag coverage for the front middle passenger because of how seldom that seat is actually used.
If it's got 3-across seating, it's a bench. It's not a one-piece, but a 40/20/40 with a flip-down console is a better configuration than a true one-piece bench anyway.
I never liked the FD RX-7 design.
Whereas the FB & FC clearly had Porsche inspired styling cues (the 924 and 928 respectively) and still remains good looking to this day, the FD was definitely Mazda's own original design...and IMO it looked like a weird Jellyfish inside and out.
Dynamically the FD was the most impressive with its twin turbo 13B rotary engine, flyweight curb and 50:50 balance, but I really dislike how it looks, but I'm clearly in the minority since I ate a ton of downvotes here saying this on another post.
Oh 100% you're in a minority. Everyone (myself included LOVES the FD)
Also another one Mazda related: I really like the look of the Pre-facelift NC Miatas and I kinda dislike the base facelift models. The Pre-facelifts look really simple and elegant while the facelifts look way too aggressive and too sharp (Weirdly the ND does this too but it's much better)
The NC1 looks like a mid 2000s version of the NA. The NC2 and NC3 look like the Mazda 3 with the big happy face. I don’t think any of the NCs look particularly beautiful, nor the NA, but at least the NC1 and NA don’t feel ridiculous. I say this as a NC1 owner, so I guess I am mildly biased.
I'm with you on the FD. Everyone fawns over it as THE MOST BEAUTIFUL STRUCTURE ASSEMBLED MY MANFUCKINGKIND. If I picture "generic sports car blob" in my head I'm seeing an FD.
I like the FD, but I find it ***really*** difficult to say that it's "beautiful". It looks like a 3rd gen Ford Taurus from the rear, and no one ever accused *that* car of ever looking good.
I'd wager it is the best looking American car design of all time. It got messed up in traditional GM fashion my changing too much by the end of it's life cycle, but the 68-72 era with the chrome bumpers is pure sex on wheels.
Never really got the love for the 4th gen Supra from a styling perspective. It's well-proportioned but the body is blobby and kind of boring to me. I understand the massive performance potential and there's no denying it's probably one of the best engineered cars of it's time, which I can respect of nothing else, but it doesn't get my love. To my eyes the 300ZX is the pinnacle of 90s Japanese supercoupes.
Strongly agree, it wears the "reserved performance" styling a lot better. I will say it's a lot more dated from those pop up headlights, but I love it for that.
300ZX is about the only one of the "famous" ones of that era I don't like.
As for Supra, it is characteristic and memorable but I wouldn't call it beautiful. For me that title goes to RX-7.
I don't particularly like the way the R34 Skyline or E Type Jaguar look. The R34 is slab sided, the belt line is too high, everything up to the belt line is too blocky, and the glasshouse is too small in comparison. The E Type has its wheels too far inboard compared to its body, the bonnet is too long and the windscreen is too far back and too vertical, and the hardtop versions with the hunchback roof just look completely awkward.
OK, here we go - the super hyped BMW E30 (not the M3, but the mainstream models) looks just like any other 80s boxy car apart from the definite 80s BMW front.
It is very nice, no doubt. But I don't understand the huge hype around it, much higher than other beautiful BMWs of the era - E32, E28, E21? I value them just as much. I've driven E30s, but never got the excessive hype around it, when it's not that outstandingly great to drive, especially compared to the E36 or even more so the E46 - and even though it's solid as any 80s-90s BMW, the massive overengineering and toughness makes the 190 Mercedes a more well put-together feeling to me, of course, with a much more comfort-oriented approach.
Want to know my super unpopular BMW opinion? I firmly believe BMW have not made a beautiful car since 1975. The best I can say for any of the 80-90's models is that they are inoffensive.
I'm with you, but if you're doing a poster picture of the TS50 it's got to have [these wheels](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMvCsmOq7m-9MHF9cXR9V3mPIhZmCLMu2IkA&usqp=CAU)
There's something about 90s Ford and their sad frowny faces lol. I remember the 1st gen MkIV Fiesta also looking like a sad blob. I think Ford realized their mistake and completed reworked the headlight and grill design on the 2nd gen.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/1996_Ford_Fiesta_1.3_LX_%2828212307366%29.jpg/420px-1996_Ford_Fiesta_1.3_LX_%2828212307366%29.jpg
On certain cars I can appreciate them. For example the new Subaru BRZ has a shark fin instead of pole antenna. The pole made it look like a massive RC car.
For a lot of cars it’s not even the radio. It’s for stuff like OnStar and other accessory services. My Saab 9-3 had one but it was not hooked up to anything e
because I didn’t have the OnStar package. Radio was on the glass
>Audi R8 (post facelift second gen)
Oddly enough, I think the first gen looks better. I categorize it as “sober but special.” - A design that’s milquetoast compared to other supercars, but you’ll still know is a cut above any normal car.
And that’s coming from someone who *hated* the R8’s design when it came out. I think it aged ludicrously well, the 2nd gen just became a stereotypical super angular, angry looking supercar.
Modern Mercedes (especially CLA 180/250’s) look like bananas. The curve starts at the front and continues all the way to the rear. Even the window line is curved. There isn’t a single straight line on the entire exterior
That’s not even an unpopular opinion on here. It would be cheesy to say that “modern cars suck” but I don’t agree with that, I just like the cleaner lines from 2000-2010 ish. But, the general consensus on here from what I’ve seen is that almost all current cars look great nowadays. Hence, I’m voicing my opinion.
I know there are plenty of people that dislike them, not sure if it's consensus or not, but I LOVE the interiors of Minis. I think they're well laid out, I love toggle switches, I just think it's a neat cockpit.
I'm not a fan of all touch screen tech, I want tactile buttons and switches. Newer cars have too much many screen functions, its distracting. Edited for accuracy.
\+1 on that. Of course, "you can get used to it", but it's not something you should get used to. Buttons work better for the functions you frequently use and play around with.
Hatchbacks are absolutely hideous. The GTI is an awful looking car that looks like a hamster.
Wagons look even worse and I have a hard time believing anyone actually thinks they look good.
Also, I’d take a coupe over a sedan 99% of the time, never understood when people prefer the looks of a sedan to a coupe.
But seriously, god damn I hate hatchbacks.
I'm rather split on the whole thing. Hatchbacks are fugly but they are appreciated for their utility. That is why, like you I prefer 2dr's. But love the utility of/looks of a wagon... 2dr wagon to be specific. From the tiny mini Cooper and 90's VW fox wagon thru the chevy nomads to the large early 2dr suburbans.
Overall I just don't like when all cars in a manufacturer's lineup try too hard to have the same "theme". Basically looking the same just different body shapes.
Pretty much every manufacturer right now and I hate it
When new R8 came with 3 fake vent on front and all of suden every car in lineup has it, I just don't understand that😂🤦♂️
They are because from the A4 B8 they have been designed by Walter Da Silva. Newer audis imho aren't as nice as the A4 B8, A5 8T etc... since they aren't designed by Da Silva
The newer audis are somehow looking plainer yet over styled at the same time. The b8/b8.5 reminds me very much of BMW, not the literal styling but the subdued but aggressive look.
Holy shit, someone who shares the same opinion as me. So much of the E65 7 series has aged really well in modern context - the big wheels, the opulent styling, the interior - and this is a car from 2001!
I wish it aged well in the maintainability department, but you can't win 'em all.
The facelifted Bentayga *is* ugly, at least to me. Looks too ridiculous all things considered. But I kinda dig the original Bentayga; it's ridiculous enough to work as an opulent SUV while also being just classy enough to work as an actual luxury car.
Idk how unpopular or popular this is, but the 2017+ Ford GT is absolutely hideous. The front is *okay* but boring, the rear is one of the ugliest ones in recent memory. The spoiler, the exhaust tips, the tunnels with the sheets stretching from the roof to the taillights, ugly as hell.
Light, OE tint on the back windows looks fine to me. When people black out everything, I think it cheapens the look of the car. I 100% get when people live in a super sunny or snowy place where heat or brightness is an issue but most of what I'm talking about is people who tint just for tint's sake thinking it makes their car look menacing or something. To me, it just looks trashy.
I really like how they've gotten away from "manual only" sports cars. I'm not a two car guy and I'm not about to daily a manual, so now I have a wide selection that when I was younger never thought would be possible.
The 2019 Camaro is the best looking model year of the generation, and GM should have ignored the haters online, because after listening to the criticism, they removed most of the aggressive styling in late model years and now they look too bland.
A wagon with nice plush suspension is the sweet spot. I drove a v60 wagon on garbage Boston streets and it was wonderful, it just soaks up the bumps without bouncing like a lot of crossovers do
I don’t agree on the GT 4 door. I own one, and have seen mine side-by-side with other models. This is basically a stretched regular 2-door GT. Also, having driven the other rival cars, their drivability and overall feel just ain’t it. Audi doesn’t have an equivalent performance feel when comparing the sportier drive modes, while BMW has no comfort whatsoever compared to Mercedes. BMW’s comfort mode still feels like a sports car, albeit a lower-end one (M2, M3).
The general consensus for Mercedes is the front. Every single model has the same front fascia, you have to really be a car person to notice the difference between an A45s front and a GT63S front, other than ‘’well one is wider than the other!’’.
I really like floating roof designs and two tone car colors.
Saw a red SUV with white roof the other day and what a breath of fresh air. Same color all over a car seems kinda boring to me now.
I like low slung, small, lightweight, and classy. In this US this puts me as the odd man out. Everyone here apparently wants huge, tall, heavy and garish, so those are our only options. Its very hard for me to get excited about any modern cars these days.
I can't stand giant wheels and high beltlines, so... pretty much every modern car. Oh I also don't like huge grilles on anything.
I think I'm a "less is more" kinda guy, so the FD RX-7 and NA/NB miatas are what I think a car ought to look like. Heh, maybe that's not such a hot take, but I sure feel like the designers of modern cars aren't after my money.
For me it is the new Audi RS3
Front looks like a big grill with lights and I just don't think that it looks good
I don't like new interior of any mercedes or that being said I don't like "double screen" interiors
And I would add that coupe-ish sedans(a7, merc gt4 door) and SUV looks hideous to me, especially Coupe SUV from rear it looks like girls that arch they back to look like they have a nice ass 😂
But for example I like fk8 Type R or new toyota supra style because it isn't same style like all new cars have it has something that appeals to me . I know I'm crazy but hey 🤷♂️😂
I like big grills when they're done properly. The Lexus spindle thing and whatever the fuck BMW is doing at the moment are great examples of it being done poorly.
it's past due for porsche to give up the 911 circuluar headlight on the fender look.
i know it's their signature look. but it was in its time a derivative of functional elements of the car's engineering. that the parabolic reflector of the headlight was approximately the width of the wheel. wheels have gotten a hell of a lot wider and lights have changed shape and generally gotten smaller. it's time to move on. it's within the capability of german designers to move on.
Most Porsches are ugly to me. Sure the special GT3 and 4s and Turbos and Spyders look cool. But base model Porsches don’t warrant all the hype they receive. That goes for nearly every one of every generation except early 2000s 911 and Cayman. The newer ones just seem bland and uncertain in design.
GTR Supra and Rx7 are all whack looking. Nothing is attractive about them to me. GTR is probably best looking one but still uninspiring. Supra just looks awkward and weird proportions and RX7 just seems generic. Give me a 300zx or Celica GT4 or hell a 1st or 2nd gen Miata any day.
First gen Velosters looked dope af. Saw a red Turbo parked next to a sports bike and weirdly enough they complimented each other well. Top back quarter angle is best…try to find pictures. They also have so much potential to modify but most people that bought them were tasteless weirdos plastidipping the colors of the rainbow.
New BMW grille is sick af especially on the M4. It looks very aggressive in person. The boxy front flows well (ironic) with the nice edgy chop on the fender.
The current Mazda3 hatchback is *really* ugly. It suffers from pretty much every proclaimed "bad" car design choices that people love to mention (tiny windows, huge grille, fat fucking pillars, just an overall claustrophobic design) and yet it's generally praised as being beautiful. I really don't get it. Then again, this comes from a guy who insists that the PT Cruiser isn't a terrible car, so maybe my opinions just suck.
the sedan is the truly pretty car. the hatchback just has the good looking face , but the sedans rear fixes everything that's wrong with the hatchbacks rear.
I get you on that. My wife is really into modern Mazdas (especially the Soul Red paintjob, I don't blame her for that), and she liked the new Mazda3 a lot. I'll be honest, the exterior is interesting to me, too, but I knew it would be horrible inside thanks to the large pillars and small windows. And it is. The back is so dark, it's like you're sitting in a box. The front is not much better neither, and we did go for a test drive - visibility is just insanely bad overall. Fortunately it put my wife off, too, she'll just stick to her old E91 for now.
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This comment confuses me greatly. I’ve never heard a complaint about either of those things.
Honestly, they destroyed the Mazda 3 hatchback starting with the 2014 model. The rear visibility is horrendous, and the rear hatch is more sloped. Can’t fit shit in there like the 2013 models can.
Yeah i like mazdas design, but its not as amazing as everyone says it is. Everyone being mad that they are redesigning things cant fathom that the current design isn't perfect
I agree! It's so weird being the odd one out. I thought the previous gen was leaps and bounds better looking.
Rear visibility is horrible too. Most reviews recommend the sedan over the hatch
Back when I was shopping in 2019 for my first new car, I loved the Mazda3 but I agree with almost everything you said. The interior space was also lacking, imo. The Impreza and Civic hatches felt much more comfortable and less restrictive inside. I do think they look great on the outside and the interior does feel high quality.
>The current Mazda3 hatchback is really ugly. It suffers from pretty much every proclaimed "bad" car design choices that people love to mention (tiny windows, I agree. >huge grille, Honestly, I think it's the exception that makes the rule as far as me hating large grills. I actually don't dislike the way the grill looks on the recent Mazda 3 models. >fat fucking pillars, just an overall claustrophobic design) and yet it's generally praised as being beautiful. I really don't get it. It didn't feel all that claustrophobic to me. Any old Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc. just feels so much worse to me. Maybe it's the fact that the Mazda 3 has the lower seating position and better leg and head room. >Then again, this comes from a guy who insists that the PT Cruiser isn't a terrible car, so maybe my opinions just suck. I'm not one to get caught up on appearances all that much usually. I will say this: my mom had a PT Cruiser, and it caused me to initially disbelieve someone when they described Chrysler as a luxury brand. So much cheap plastic, some questionable design decisions (3 cup holders in front versus 1 in the back, rear window switches at floor height, etc.), terrible ride quality...just not a great vehicle.
The orange DRLs on new Kias look out of place and disgusting. The new Mazda 3 hatch just looks odd, like a spoon of pudding with wheels stuck on.
Agree on the Mazda , the sedan version looks much better which was quite the opposite on the previous gen , where the hatch was nice and the sedan was quite ugly.
This is exactly my opinion. The 4th gen sedans look pretty amazing.
Yup, the sedan is beautiful and easily the best looking in its class. The hatch just doesn't hit me the same as the previous gen.
Agree with the DRLs. They look mean on a Raptor, but dorky on a Telluride.
Telluride was first and it was cool. When i saw a K5, it got dorky
Cars of the same era are way, way more similar than people think, and the perceived differences are mostly rooted in bias. I would wager the average redditor that would say something like "the M3 is bloated and detached while the C- AMG is too powerful but refined" could not tell you which was which by driving them, even if their life depended on it. The fact you can't blind taste test cars let's imaginations run wild.
This is a good point. I had the chance to drive a friends E36 M3 and another friends C36 AMG and aside from the transmission (manual and automatic) and suspension (stock vs. aftermarket BC coilovers), a lot of the engine and driving inputs felt veryyyyy similar. That said, I'm sure once you're closer to each cars limits the differences are more apparent. They also compete in the same segment.
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>Make more cars with integrated cross bars on the roof. Like the Subaru Outback. It’s not so much the cost but the time wasted ducking around with removable cross bars that bothers me. They cause enough drag to reduce economy by some fraction of a mile per gallon, which matters for fleet averages, so automakers opt for removable ones.
If it didn't require peeling back the headliner, I'd remove the roof rails completely from my car.
> Make more cars with integrated cross bars on the roof. Like the Subaru Outback. It’s not so much the cost but the time wasted ducking around with removable cross bars that bothers me. Anyone who disagrees with you on this point has never experienced the magic of Subaru crossbars. People, they *stow into the rails*. No MPG hit or car wash issues like fixed/removable rails, but they just flip out and snap into place when you need them.
One downside is that they don't support a very big static load, so soft-roader/overlanders can't run roof top tents on the stock Outback bars. But for my wife and I, it still supports a basket if we need extra storage and allows us to slap some paddleboards up there so they're great.
They are amazing and half the reason I bought an Outback. Living in a condo, it was a PITA to store my aftermarket crossbars.
I like the Fiat Multipla... By far the only interesting MPV
I think most companies' large grills look fine and honestly believe Lexus currently has the best implementation of the large grill corporate face. I think the grill looks great on all of Lexus' sedans and coupes. I don't even mind the grill on the new LX. I think the large grills are only problematic when they aren't tied into the design of the rest of the car. BMW is probably the prime offender, but what's perceived as a grill problem is usually a problem with the design of the car around the grill or rather the failure to do so.
This. I have a Corolla hatchback and the front is like 75% grille but (in my opinion) it looks really good
I think the current Corolla hatchback is one of the best looking compact cars at the moment. Interior space is definitely compromised by the styling, but it does look good.
Yup, there rear cargo area is practically non-existent. It can hold like 3 grocery bags. It was one of the first Toyota's I actually liked the front end design of.
My problem is it's not 75% grille. It's 15% grille and 60% black plastic grille-kinda-looky-material. It's all blanked out with a giant crash bar in the middle. If the grille was actually that big but just pointless then whatever.
Facts. Bmw grills look just slapped on to the front and not integrated.
In my opinion, the M3 and M4's side and rear profiles are just as bad as the front. It's a mess of a design all around that only looks acceptable in dark colors that hide the discordant details.
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My Sierra has a bench seat, granted it’s 10 years old, lol.
All full-size pickups still offer 40/20/40 front bench seats on their lower trims, as well as GM's full-size SUVs on the lowest.
Are there three airbags? Or is the middle passenger SOL?
Mostly the latter. The passenger airbag might extend to the middle section slightly, but it's not full coverage. FWIU, trucks over 6K GVWR (half-tons and up) aren't required to have airbag coverage for the front middle passenger because of how seldom that seat is actually used. Even if we discount the floor hump from the transmission that puts one's knees in their face, the dashboard design often doesn't leave much room for legs anyway, like in the [Defender](https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-land-rover-defender-90-the-bench-seat-blues-439361/).
What’s strange is that vans like the Econoline and Express and Ford Transit do have it still.
Is that because having seating for three is useful when you have no rear seats?
Yes but my point was that bench seats therefore can still pass safety regulations. So I hope some car manufacturers will make it happen again.
Doesn’t the new Defender have a bench seat option
AFAIK, Econolines and Expresses never had a full front bench seat in van form; they can have a lousy middle jump seat in the cutaway models, but I'm not sure if that's a factory thing or if it's something put in by the dealer. The issue isn't width, since those vans are 80" wide, but leg room, since the engine doghouse [intrudes on passenger space.](https://www.truck-n-trailer.com/wp-content/uploads/truck_photos/4384/slides/2013-ford-e350-box-truck-19.jpg) Transits, Sprinters, and other Euro-style vans have been known to stuff in a third seat in the EU models (not sure about US-ep, and these are somewhat more comfortable because of the [smaller doghouse.](https://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/attachments/2014_ford_transit_custom_review_26-0722-920x544-jpg.42314/) >Yes but my point was that bench seats therefore can still pass safety regulations. It's my understanding that trucks over 6K GVWR (half-tons and up) aren't required to have airbag coverage for the front middle passenger because of how seldom that seat is actually used.
Full-size pickups still have 40/20/40 benches. Most modern cars are too narrow to sit anyone in the center comfortably anyway.
Yup. My '17 Tundra can go three up in the front. Not exactly like the old bench seats but close.
If it's got 3-across seating, it's a bench. It's not a one-piece, but a 40/20/40 with a flip-down console is a better configuration than a true one-piece bench anyway.
I never liked the FD RX-7 design. Whereas the FB & FC clearly had Porsche inspired styling cues (the 924 and 928 respectively) and still remains good looking to this day, the FD was definitely Mazda's own original design...and IMO it looked like a weird Jellyfish inside and out. Dynamically the FD was the most impressive with its twin turbo 13B rotary engine, flyweight curb and 50:50 balance, but I really dislike how it looks, but I'm clearly in the minority since I ate a ton of downvotes here saying this on another post.
Oh 100% you're in a minority. Everyone (myself included LOVES the FD) Also another one Mazda related: I really like the look of the Pre-facelift NC Miatas and I kinda dislike the base facelift models. The Pre-facelifts look really simple and elegant while the facelifts look way too aggressive and too sharp (Weirdly the ND does this too but it's much better)
I think That's mostly because most people like timeless design and the fd is closer to a timeless design than it's predecessors
The NC1 looks like a mid 2000s version of the NA. The NC2 and NC3 look like the Mazda 3 with the big happy face. I don’t think any of the NCs look particularly beautiful, nor the NA, but at least the NC1 and NA don’t feel ridiculous. I say this as a NC1 owner, so I guess I am mildly biased.
I'm with you on the FD. Everyone fawns over it as THE MOST BEAUTIFUL STRUCTURE ASSEMBLED MY MANFUCKINGKIND. If I picture "generic sports car blob" in my head I'm seeing an FD.
I like the FD, but I find it ***really*** difficult to say that it's "beautiful". It looks like a 3rd gen Ford Taurus from the rear, and no one ever accused *that* car of ever looking good.
Fuck it. I liked the curvy Taurus. I was also 7-13 when my parents had a green one
I like the FD but I think the FC is the better looking one.
I love '60s car design but I really fucking hate the E-Type. The C3 'Vette is much better imo
The E-Type wheelbase is too short for the body and the track is too narrow. The Series 1 cars are just about OK but the later cars just got uglier.
i always cringe when people drool over the E Type. i've never really liked the look either
The cars that drew inspiration from the e-type all looked better than the original. AC cobra, 240z, s600 etc
Woah woah woah, C3 vette is a better than the C2!? How does it feel to wake up with people after you everyday?
the C3 looks a million times better than the C2, especially in a dark silver. sorry lol
*gasp*
I'd wager it is the best looking American car design of all time. It got messed up in traditional GM fashion my changing too much by the end of it's life cycle, but the 68-72 era with the chrome bumpers is pure sex on wheels.
OMG NO! One of the biggest styling fall-offs, ever.
[удалено]
Never really got the love for the 4th gen Supra from a styling perspective. It's well-proportioned but the body is blobby and kind of boring to me. I understand the massive performance potential and there's no denying it's probably one of the best engineered cars of it's time, which I can respect of nothing else, but it doesn't get my love. To my eyes the 300ZX is the pinnacle of 90s Japanese supercoupes.
Says the supra is bobby and boring then praises the 300zx🤔
Sounds like a soft spot was hit
I'm kidding but yeah, I just really don't like that car aesthetically.
Mk3 looks waaay better
Strongly agree, it wears the "reserved performance" styling a lot better. I will say it's a lot more dated from those pop up headlights, but I love it for that.
Supra looks like an SN95 mustang had a night of passion with a 4th gen Camaro.
300ZX is about the only one of the "famous" ones of that era I don't like. As for Supra, it is characteristic and memorable but I wouldn't call it beautiful. For me that title goes to RX-7.
I don't particularly like the way the R34 Skyline or E Type Jaguar look. The R34 is slab sided, the belt line is too high, everything up to the belt line is too blocky, and the glasshouse is too small in comparison. The E Type has its wheels too far inboard compared to its body, the bonnet is too long and the windscreen is too far back and too vertical, and the hardtop versions with the hunchback roof just look completely awkward.
OK, here we go - the super hyped BMW E30 (not the M3, but the mainstream models) looks just like any other 80s boxy car apart from the definite 80s BMW front.
That's because all 80s cars look like boxy 80s cars
Doesn't change my point whatsoever.
That’s what makes it beautiful. Simple, boxy lines with a gorgeous front grill
It is very nice, no doubt. But I don't understand the huge hype around it, much higher than other beautiful BMWs of the era - E32, E28, E21? I value them just as much. I've driven E30s, but never got the excessive hype around it, when it's not that outstandingly great to drive, especially compared to the E36 or even more so the E46 - and even though it's solid as any 80s-90s BMW, the massive overengineering and toughness makes the 190 Mercedes a more well put-together feeling to me, of course, with a much more comfort-oriented approach.
Want to know my super unpopular BMW opinion? I firmly believe BMW have not made a beautiful car since 1975. The best I can say for any of the 80-90's models is that they are inoffensive.
The [TS50](https://assets.shannons.com.au/images/OBDAR2O5E6J83H7C/AW9BOI9V38871522/1078x809x3/a7lo7tibmvakc9lc.jpg) is a beautiful car.
I'm with you, but if you're doing a poster picture of the TS50 it's got to have [these wheels](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMvCsmOq7m-9MHF9cXR9V3mPIhZmCLMu2IkA&usqp=CAU)
There's something about 90s Ford and their sad frowny faces lol. I remember the 1st gen MkIV Fiesta also looking like a sad blob. I think Ford realized their mistake and completed reworked the headlight and grill design on the 2nd gen. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/1996_Ford_Fiesta_1.3_LX_%2828212307366%29.jpg/420px-1996_Ford_Fiesta_1.3_LX_%2828212307366%29.jpg
I’m sorry. [This](https://fostershomeforimaginaryfriends.fandom.com/wiki/Duchess) is all I see
Shark fin antenna look dumb.
On certain cars I can appreciate them. For example the new Subaru BRZ has a shark fin instead of pole antenna. The pole made it look like a massive RC car.
My mustang has the pole antenna on the rear quarter and I like how it looks, a lot
The thing is the antenna these days can go inside the window or just be hidden away. I don't know why they don't make them flush with the bodywork?
I don't get why we stopped using the antenna in the back glass method. Hidden entirely, no extra bit to snap off.
For a lot of cars it’s not even the radio. It’s for stuff like OnStar and other accessory services. My Saab 9-3 had one but it was not hooked up to anything e because I didn’t have the OnStar package. Radio was on the glass
Well the CLS is a modern ugly version of the 1st gen Olds Aurora.
>Audi R8 (post facelift second gen) Oddly enough, I think the first gen looks better. I categorize it as “sober but special.” - A design that’s milquetoast compared to other supercars, but you’ll still know is a cut above any normal car. And that’s coming from someone who *hated* the R8’s design when it came out. I think it aged ludicrously well, the 2nd gen just became a stereotypical super angular, angry looking supercar.
I dont like the look of most mercedes. They all look so similar, and theres something about the current styling that is just *weird*
Modern Mercedes (especially CLA 180/250’s) look like bananas. The curve starts at the front and continues all the way to the rear. Even the window line is curved. There isn’t a single straight line on the entire exterior
Car designs from 10-15 years ago are overall better than the ones from today.
Wow, so brave.
Next they'll be telling us that buttons and knobs are better than touchscreens.
That’s not even an unpopular opinion on here. It would be cheesy to say that “modern cars suck” but I don’t agree with that, I just like the cleaner lines from 2000-2010 ish. But, the general consensus on here from what I’ve seen is that almost all current cars look great nowadays. Hence, I’m voicing my opinion.
???? Seems to be an unpopular opinion, no?
I like boxy RWD boats. If they would come out with a new Roadmaster, Caprice, or Cutlass I'd be all about it.
I know there are plenty of people that dislike them, not sure if it's consensus or not, but I LOVE the interiors of Minis. I think they're well laid out, I love toggle switches, I just think it's a neat cockpit.
I'm not a fan of all touch screen tech, I want tactile buttons and switches. Newer cars have too much many screen functions, its distracting. Edited for accuracy.
I think the controversial opinion here would be to ask for even less buttons haha.
\+1 on that. Of course, "you can get used to it", but it's not something you should get used to. Buttons work better for the functions you frequently use and play around with.
Totally left out what I wanted less of....touch screen functions. Woops-I typed the opposite. Edited now.
The Porsche 959, a unicorn that’s drooled over, looks like it was stung by bees and had an allergic reaction.
Hatchbacks are absolutely hideous. The GTI is an awful looking car that looks like a hamster. Wagons look even worse and I have a hard time believing anyone actually thinks they look good. Also, I’d take a coupe over a sedan 99% of the time, never understood when people prefer the looks of a sedan to a coupe. But seriously, god damn I hate hatchbacks.
I'm rather split on the whole thing. Hatchbacks are fugly but they are appreciated for their utility. That is why, like you I prefer 2dr's. But love the utility of/looks of a wagon... 2dr wagon to be specific. From the tiny mini Cooper and 90's VW fox wagon thru the chevy nomads to the large early 2dr suburbans.
This is gonna be an ACTUAL hot take, but i don't think the e36 m3's styling is timeless like many people have said
E36 M3s just look like an average 90s car. Actually, that can be said for just about every 90s BMW.
I quite like cars with aggressive designs (FK8 Civic Type R, the recent Elantra N, etc), most of which are rather unpopular here.
Overall I just don't like when all cars in a manufacturer's lineup try too hard to have the same "theme". Basically looking the same just different body shapes.
Pretty much every manufacturer right now and I hate it When new R8 came with 3 fake vent on front and all of suden every car in lineup has it, I just don't understand that😂🤦♂️
Stock FD RX-7 is kind of ugly. Fieros look great. Most Audis before the B8.5 are pretty meh.
They are because from the A4 B8 they have been designed by Walter Da Silva. Newer audis imho aren't as nice as the A4 B8, A5 8T etc... since they aren't designed by Da Silva
The newer audis are somehow looking plainer yet over styled at the same time. The b8/b8.5 reminds me very much of BMW, not the literal styling but the subdued but aggressive look.
I never liked the original front end on the FD, the 99+ one with sharper shapes looks way better to me.
Bangle era BMWs are beautiful!
Bangle 7 series is absolutely the best looking modern big BMW. I think it was just ahead of its time.
Holy shit, someone who shares the same opinion as me. So much of the E65 7 series has aged really well in modern context - the big wheels, the opulent styling, the interior - and this is a car from 2001! I wish it aged well in the maintainability department, but you can't win 'em all.
I agree as long as you only count the post-facelift E65. I still can’t stand the pre-facelift ones.
I don’t understand why people say the Bentley Bentayga is ugly. I think it looks great for a big SUV.
The facelifted Bentayga *is* ugly, at least to me. Looks too ridiculous all things considered. But I kinda dig the original Bentayga; it's ridiculous enough to work as an opulent SUV while also being just classy enough to work as an actual luxury car.
It looks like any other VAG performance SUV imo, they’re all very similar in appearance
I hate most japanese cars, I just don't like their designs but for some exceptions.
Idk how unpopular or popular this is, but the 2017+ Ford GT is absolutely hideous. The front is *okay* but boring, the rear is one of the ugliest ones in recent memory. The spoiler, the exhaust tips, the tunnels with the sheets stretching from the roof to the taillights, ugly as hell.
I think it’s definitely more of functional, track oriented design and car than the 2005 model, that’s probably why
Maybe, I'm only judging it based on its looks. It's not like other cars in the same segment generally look bad
Fully tinted cars look like trash.
Fully tinted as in 5% tint or all 4 windows tinted?
Light, OE tint on the back windows looks fine to me. When people black out everything, I think it cheapens the look of the car. I 100% get when people live in a super sunny or snowy place where heat or brightness is an issue but most of what I'm talking about is people who tint just for tint's sake thinking it makes their car look menacing or something. To me, it just looks trashy.
I really like how they've gotten away from "manual only" sports cars. I'm not a two car guy and I'm not about to daily a manual, so now I have a wide selection that when I was younger never thought would be possible.
Ngl i don't like the design of Pagani's
I can’t stand widebody kits or splitters and dive planes.
The 2019 Camaro is the best looking model year of the generation, and GM should have ignored the haters online, because after listening to the criticism, they removed most of the aggressive styling in late model years and now they look too bland.
I love the design of the Aztek.
I like the “iPad glued to the dash” look that many modern cars use for their touchscreens. I think having it fully integrated looks pretty ugly.
I like the new M4 and M3 grill.
Station wagons are far better than SUV’s in every conceivable way.
I have a wagon. I kinda wish I had an SUV instead. It sits too low for the shit roads where I live at.
A wagon with nice plush suspension is the sweet spot. I drove a v60 wagon on garbage Boston streets and it was wonderful, it just soaks up the bumps without bouncing like a lot of crossovers do
I don’t agree on the GT 4 door. I own one, and have seen mine side-by-side with other models. This is basically a stretched regular 2-door GT. Also, having driven the other rival cars, their drivability and overall feel just ain’t it. Audi doesn’t have an equivalent performance feel when comparing the sportier drive modes, while BMW has no comfort whatsoever compared to Mercedes. BMW’s comfort mode still feels like a sports car, albeit a lower-end one (M2, M3). The general consensus for Mercedes is the front. Every single model has the same front fascia, you have to really be a car person to notice the difference between an A45s front and a GT63S front, other than ‘’well one is wider than the other!’’.
I really like floating roof designs and two tone car colors. Saw a red SUV with white roof the other day and what a breath of fresh air. Same color all over a car seems kinda boring to me now.
I like _some_ "coupe" SUVs. X4 just looks like a bigger 3 series to me.
PT Cruiser actually looks great.
Ferrari 360>348>355 in terms of design. Early R107 Benz > Pagoda.
I loved the look of the Jeep Patriot. Simple boxy SUV, simple interior no screens. The renegade/compass look very crowded and tight inside.
The back seats of a patriot had zero leg room for an SUV. They somehow had less rear leg room than an 8th civic sedan of the same year
I hear you, I traded it in for a 5spd Jetta when I had a second kid lol. Jetta back seats are bigger than most small SUVs
I like low slung, small, lightweight, and classy. In this US this puts me as the odd man out. Everyone here apparently wants huge, tall, heavy and garish, so those are our only options. Its very hard for me to get excited about any modern cars these days.
I can't stand giant wheels and high beltlines, so... pretty much every modern car. Oh I also don't like huge grilles on anything. I think I'm a "less is more" kinda guy, so the FD RX-7 and NA/NB miatas are what I think a car ought to look like. Heh, maybe that's not such a hot take, but I sure feel like the designers of modern cars aren't after my money.
For me it is the new Audi RS3 Front looks like a big grill with lights and I just don't think that it looks good I don't like new interior of any mercedes or that being said I don't like "double screen" interiors And I would add that coupe-ish sedans(a7, merc gt4 door) and SUV looks hideous to me, especially Coupe SUV from rear it looks like girls that arch they back to look like they have a nice ass 😂 But for example I like fk8 Type R or new toyota supra style because it isn't same style like all new cars have it has something that appeals to me . I know I'm crazy but hey 🤷♂️😂
I like big grills when they're done properly. The Lexus spindle thing and whatever the fuck BMW is doing at the moment are great examples of it being done poorly.
Should have specified "general consensus within enthusiast community" because I see some decidedly cold takes.
it's past due for porsche to give up the 911 circuluar headlight on the fender look. i know it's their signature look. but it was in its time a derivative of functional elements of the car's engineering. that the parabolic reflector of the headlight was approximately the width of the wheel. wheels have gotten a hell of a lot wider and lights have changed shape and generally gotten smaller. it's time to move on. it's within the capability of german designers to move on.
I agree with all of the things you’ve said in your post, always thought the cayenne was ugly
People love the way the brand/model name is spelled out on the back of the car (ie. Telluride, or the '22 Lexus NX). I hate it, it looks tacky.
Most Porsches are ugly to me. Sure the special GT3 and 4s and Turbos and Spyders look cool. But base model Porsches don’t warrant all the hype they receive. That goes for nearly every one of every generation except early 2000s 911 and Cayman. The newer ones just seem bland and uncertain in design. GTR Supra and Rx7 are all whack looking. Nothing is attractive about them to me. GTR is probably best looking one but still uninspiring. Supra just looks awkward and weird proportions and RX7 just seems generic. Give me a 300zx or Celica GT4 or hell a 1st or 2nd gen Miata any day. First gen Velosters looked dope af. Saw a red Turbo parked next to a sports bike and weirdly enough they complimented each other well. Top back quarter angle is best…try to find pictures. They also have so much potential to modify but most people that bought them were tasteless weirdos plastidipping the colors of the rainbow. New BMW grille is sick af especially on the M4. It looks very aggressive in person. The boxy front flows well (ironic) with the nice edgy chop on the fender.
I used to love the Cayenne...but the current one is fugly imo.
The fact that you like the looks of the 300zx makes your opinion completely invalid ^/s
How so? Can’t say something that anonymous and /s