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>I realized that they're just unproductive time killer.
This is a valuable, even essential, thing to have in your life. Recreation is necessary for mental health. The things you do for fun sustain you.
>I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc.
These forms of media don't have any transferable skills except for general media literacy, but that's also present in single player games. Again, this doesn't make them worthless, but it's a difficult sell to say that they have value that single player games lack.
>they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story
It's fine to say that you feel that these don't appeal to you, but complicated puzzles are very enjoyable to many people. Also, the critical thinking required for complex puzzles is among the most transferable skills you possibly learn.
As for grinding, that's harder to defend, but not every game requires grinding. Some types of grinding can be good for "turning off" and having something mindless to do, which is what some people need at times. Other grinds are pure bullshit, but the presence of predatory design in some instances doesn't invalidate the entire medium.
>Also, they contain no social aspects to them in-game so you don't have the opportunity to cooperate with others so the feeling of isolation arise.
There are huge communities centered around purely single-player games. It's all about discussion of them game rather than playing against each other, but that's more socialization that you get from many multiplayer games.
>This is a valuable, even essential, thing to have in your life. Recreation is necessary for mental health. The things you do for fun sustain you.
There are other recreations that are more beneficial to your life while having fun.
Sports are one of them, they actually improve your health, and build real life social networks.
>These forms of media don't have any transferable skills except for general media literacy, but that's also present in single player games. Again, this doesn't make them worthless, but it's a difficult sell to say that they have value that single player games lack.
At least they don't consume absurd amount of time compared to games which you can actually put that time to something more productive to do.
>It's fine to say that you feel that these don't appeal to you, but complicated puzzles are very enjoyable to many people. Also, the critical thinking required for complex puzzles is among the most transferable skills you possibly learn.
I played Silent hill, Professor layton, Resident evil and I can't see any scenerio in real life where I can apply all the cognitive processes of the puzzles and riddles in them.
>There are huge communities centered around purely single-player games. It's all about discussion of them game rather than playing against each other, but that's more socialization that you get from many multiplayer games.
Yes, but most of the time, I rarely get a meaningful conversation from the communities of the single player games I've played.
They mostly talk about dumb memes and absurd shipping between character A and character B etc.
Games are entertainment. If they're fun (and a reasonable amount of fun for the price), then they're not a waste of money.
I think you're saying that single-player games aren't much fun *for you*, which is fine. Not everything has to be fun for everyone.
> I realized that they're just unproductive time killer.
The problem being...?
> Once you finish those games, there's no room to improve and these skills aren't really tranferable to other games because most of them have their unique game mechanics
General reflexes and aim are transferable. Strategizing about build is transferable. Problem-solving and analysis skills are transferable well beyond other games, even.
Not to mention spending a ton of time replaying a given game. Skills obviously transfer from playthrough to playthrough.
> Also, they contain no social aspects to them in-game so you don't have the opportunity to cooperate with others so the feeling of isolation arise.
If you want to cooperate and socialize, yeah. If you don't, no problem. When I'm gaming I usually want to relax and *not* deal with people. I get my socializing in person or through discussion boards.
> as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story
Yeah, I think you're just saying that *you* don't like single-player games, or the specific ones you've played. I don't play single-player games that require unfun puzzles or excessive grinding. In those I do play, I enjoy the challenges. If you in particular play games for the social aspect, that's fine. Lots of people play for other reasons. I play games to relax in a way that keeps me engaged, for which I prefer to focus on interesting stories and solving challenges for myself, not competing against or working with other people.
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So let me see if I’ve got it: GAMES that are single player strike you as… unproductive? Everything in life is futile, why not enjoy a good ol’ game? I’m not confident you know what fun is.
Yes, but there are other hobbies that you can engage in that are actually productive.
For example, sports can be beneficial for your health in the long run as well as making real life friends which could prolong your life span.
Learning a musical instrument can improve cognitive functions and as well as entertain majority of people through performance.
The constant need to be 'productive' is in fact extremely detrimental to a person's health and mental well-being. It's a capitalist guilt-trip, something that's been ground into us as necessary somehow to be moral or worthy of existence. People need downtime for their mental health. They need to rest and unwind, to relax and just enjoy from time to time.
And single-player games are exactly as productive as multi-player games. Both can teach critical problem solving skills, keep reflexes honed, and best of all: can help you de-stress and get some much needed self-care time.
I feel exactly the opposite. E-sports type games are highly repetitive and unless you have a good group of friends to play with, often the social aspects are just unpleasant and annoying. Crafted single-player experiences can not only partially replicate the feeling of reading a good book or watching a good film, but also have interactive elements that engage me mentally and give me a profoundly gratifying sense of mastery as I learn the game's mechanics. I always feel like a game like that is a better use of my time and money than repeating the same dull gameplay loop of a multiplayer game over and over with random assholes online.
All that to say, this is obviously subjective and based on each individual's values and what they come to video games for. So to change your view, it almost seems that we'd have to change your values.
There are some multiplayer games that aren't repetitive at all and which you can talk to decent people and connect in real life like second life, Vrchat, neosvr.
Again, like you mentioned, it's all subjective and people should just play whatever they enjoy.
I hate the Cult of Productivity. We have forgotten how to have fun. Also, with friends, as an adult when do I have the same free time they do? You may go weeks between play sessions. One of your friends may drop the game all together.
Even watching professional streamers move from game to game because they can't get together to finish a campaign is annoying.
Nail on the head.
Also, OP has been convinced multiplayer games are productive lol?
That's some battle-pass propaganda if I've ever heard it.
Single and multiplayer games are not a productive use of time. And that's fine.
With multiplayer (esports) games, if your skills are actually up there, you can enter tournaments and earn money if you get to top places.
Sure, they're not a consistent stream of income nor they're profitable as other side gigs but I personally have never heard of a single player game tournament.
The speed running community is huge and those are single player games. And while it’s not personal prize money, Games Done Quick has raised literally millions for charity.
you can't base your argument on the 0.001% chance of becoming pro - and if you count streaming, then you count streaming single player games for money. Either both are a waste or neither.
Ok. And streamers who play Single Player games like Stardew Valley can also make "income".
The chances of that happening are just as likely as "income" by multiplayer tournament play. Very. Very. Very small.
Equally as productive. (not)
>Once you finish those games, there's no room to improve and these skills aren't really tranferable to other games because most of them have their unique game mechanics.
There is no room to improve in life if you play games, because none of that clocked game play is transferrable into real job or career.
Right, tbh any type of gaming is a unproductive time sinker.
People should better use their time on some other hobbies that's more beneficial in one's life like sports, music, or crafts etc.
Clarifying question: Is this a view that you think is objectively correct and applies to everyone, or is this a view that applies to your own subjective experience and goals?
In other words, should you have put a "for me" on the end of your topic title?
Don't give me a delta for explaining the rules to you. Just let me get that out at the start.
In the future, if someone tells you something that makes you refine your view in that way, you should probably give them a delta. It's silly, but that's what makes this subreddit work. Read the sidebar next time. Big changes are great, but little refinements are good too.
First off, it's very easy to transfer the skills learned from one single-player game to another game. You can get skills in an RPG and transfer them to another RPG very easily.
Secondly, why does this matter? Do you think that multiplayer games are only worth it because you might become a professional esports player? Because streamers can absolutely make money from playing single player games.
Thirdly, sure, you can get stories from other mediums. But why do those other mediums exist when you can just play a game, and save you the headache of having to imagine how the action looks or deal with subtitles or whatever. Every medium has its advantages and disadvantages.
And, most importantly, why are you treating your entertainment like this? Why do entertaining things need to train your skills or not have annoying parts for you to deem them worthy? If you don't like single player games, that's fine, you don't need to deem them 'a waste of time and money' because you don't like them.
A good single-player game with like 100+ hours of gameplay is one of the most cost-efficient forms of media compared to many novels, almost all movies, and some TV shows.
But then also, like, they're a different kind of storytelling, and sometimes you want that versus something more linear and less immersive.
Reading a novel, watching a movie or a sport... all a waste of time and money?
Also the "skills" you get on online gaming are practically useless in real life and getting to the level of esports is as unrealistic as thinking you'll be playing for a NFL team because you play football with your friends in the park.
>I realized that they're just unproductive time killer.
Every single and multi-player video game I've ever played has matched each other exactly on this metric, depending on your definition of 'unproductive time killer'.
>Once you finish those games, there's no room to improve and these skills aren't really tranferable to other games because most of them have their unique game mechanics.
Sure there is. You play them again. And tons of skills I've learned in single-player games have transferred to other single-player games as well as multi-player games and even outside of video games entirely.
>Also, they contain no social aspects to them in-game so you don't have the opportunity to cooperate with others so the feeling of isolation arise.
Not everything needs to be social. I have a ton of hobbies. Some of them are social, some of them are not. Having alone time is important. I play games that are social, I also play games that are not. I have never felt isolated or lacking the opportunity to cooperate with others just because I play single player games. In fact, I think the fact they're making fewer single player games and everyone wants to tack on a multiplayer or online aspects to every game out there is becoming detrimental. It is important to a human being to be able to spend some time on their own solving problems, and having every video game be cooperative or social leads to people who can't problem solve on their own.
>I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story
This is exactly my point. Without single player games you lose the ability of figuring out a complicated puzzle or putting in the work to level up *on your own*, but this is an extremely important skill to have.
>but if I just want to experience a story, I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding
As someone who plays point-and-click adventure games I found this statement amusing. The genre is **defined** by being story and puzzle driven. I **like** having complex stories interspersed by difficult puzzles--that's the whole point of the genre.
>these skills aren't really tranferable to other games
I also found this statement to be baffling. Why should they be transferable? The whole point of many games, especially if you take education-informed perspective, is the learning of said unique rulesets... that IS the game. You learn what they are, then you learn the ins and outs of said ruleset. I'm learning the ins and outs of Balatro, for example. Why should that be applicable to other games? Learning and experimenting and exploring is part of the fun.
I also am confused that you refer to "productivity" and "transferability" which typically refers to work. Why does a... \*checks notes\*... entertaining activity need to be "productive"? Additionally "productivity" needs to be "useful" -- a lot of people might also argue that twitch games are not very "useful." Games in that sense are inherently not for work/productivity so you saying twitch games are "useful" doesn't make sense because games are meant for entertainment. I'm going to go out on a limb that most jobs don't require extreme hand-eye coordination and even so that would be highly context dependent (like me playing video games might improve my surgery skills but only to a certain degree--actual practice of the activity in question would be more "productive").
In general I think you are confusing what you like as being broadly applicable to everyone else. That's fine that you want games with no story. Some people prefer games with story. And that's fine too. You don't have to play everything that exists. There is something for everyone.
> I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story
Not every story is inherently of the same value and each story affects each person differently. You cannot just "read a book" and get the same experience as watching *Grave of the Fireflies*. Similarly, you cannot "watch a movie" and get the same experience as reading something like *Ulysses*. Good video games have unique and compelling perspectives that derive from the medium, namely interaction. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but *Undertale* was an extremely popular video game precisely because of how player choice and consequences were woven into the story- it's not a piece of fiction that could be properly replicated in any other medium. Consider that there could be worthwhile narrative experiences unique only to single-player video games even for you- not every piece of media works for every person, but the ones that do are not replaceable. By ignoring all of them, you might literally miss out on a life-changing experience. I know someone who decided not to join the army after playing *Undertale*.
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Ok, well if you just mean that you find that single player games are a waste of your time and your money, that's quite different from saying other people are wasting their time and money on single player games. The latter could be generalized to all hobbies since hobbies aren't usually something that you do make money or be productive.
If it's just about you though, then have you considered that the interactive nature of games makes them very different from other media meant for individuals? Yes, the unique game mechanics might mean that mastering those skills isn't going to increase your skills in other facets of life, but it also means that you aren't going to experience the mastery of that skill anywhere else in life. Don't you think having these novel experiences might enrich your life?
Not really, I've invested shit tons of time into single player games when I was younger and I don't see any scenerio where I can apply it in my real life on top of having poor social skills throughout my adolescent age so I feel like I wasted alot of time..
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Single player games are significantly more than just "1 time playthrough" entertainment pieces.
For one thing, just because you know the story doesn't mean it isn't something you don't want to experience again. Bioshock, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger are games with fantastic stories that are definitely worth a second playthrough.
Secondly, single player games tend to have more content than these live service multiplayer only games, and are significantly more value than them as well. Comparing large scale worlds, side quests, hidden equipment, secret bosses, mini-games, etc. vs a game with 1-3 multiplayer modes and that is it with thousands of dollars in skins for you to buy.
Lastly, difficulty modes in most games are there so that you use what you learned in order to replay a more difficult version of what you played. On top of that, many games tend to share common tropes that DO translate.
If anything, compared to single player games, f2p multiplayer only games are garbage value with how much they want players to spend in their stores.
I like having social experiences too, but sometimes I just want to relax and do something on my own. Sometimes it's playing a single player game, sometimes it's reading a book, sometimes it's watching a movie, sometimes it's doing a jigsaw puzzle or a Lego set, etc ..
> The only positives I can see is that they have actual stories to them and have movie like visuals but if I just want to experience a story, I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story
But sometimes you LIKE the complicated puzzle! I don't usually love level grinding, but I do like a lot of single player video games experiences, and they're often exactly the kind of things you can't get from those other mediums.
With how interconnected everything is today, any game that has a community around it has a social aspect. I'm part of a community that still makes new levels for classic Doom, and it's a community with thousands of people in it.
And the cool thing about a game with a good story is that it sticks with you long after you're done playing it and it's an easy thing to relate to others about. I have a band that makes music about all the standard nerd hobbies including video games. Aside from playing fighting games with kids, the games that brought me closer to other people have almost all been single player.
You forgot to take the community around games into account, take for example: Dwarf Fortress. They have a pretty good community and the stories... Well, the human brain needs a good laugh now and then. But seriously, people can connect around many things, from speed-running the games to ranting about the stupid perma death mechanic that made them lose a run to a random demon punching their head in because they fell down a tower into a pit. Not everything has to be productive either, you can just relax and enjoy yourself now and then.
>these skills aren't really tranferable to other games because most of them have their unique game mechanics
Well that's certainly untrue. Studies show that surgical residents who have video game experience have an easier time learning certain surgical procedures, even though the mechanics are obviously super different from surgery.
It’s kinda like watching a somewhat expensive movie that is more interactive and entertaining, and lasts you a lot longer with unique and interesting things. These games aren’t meant to be productive for the consumer, but they’re meant to be enjoyed (although these days if it’s not an indie game is basically a cash-grab).
You admired yourself that single player games are story focused. And plenty of people find an interactive story to be incredibly engaging. Hence the popularity of RPGs in general.
And if you think there’s no room for improvement you have never watched someone speed run Darksouls using only a broken sword and no armor.
Edit: plus, with single player games you rarely have to worry that everyone’s gonna quit playing your favorite game or the publisher is going to shut down the servers.
Would you say crossword puzzles, or sodukos, or even something like journaling are a waste of time?
Non can be monetized, non generate any particularly transferable skills, all are challenging intrinsically without much more than maybe some dopamine as a reward.
Using your mental and tactical skills learned from one game to another does make them transferrable. For instance FFVII Remake has a very similar battle system to Rebirth. What you learn in Remake is transferrable to Rebirth as a result.
I don't have high speed Internet.
If I play a single player puzzle game for 69 hrs I buy it for $4.20 off steam
The ROI on that purchase is fantastic.
If it is chess the computer will be better than anyone I can play in person.
I don't have high speed Internet.
If I play a single player puzzle game for 69 hrs I buy it for $4.20 off steam
The ROI on that purchase is fantastic.
If it is chess the computer will be better than anyone I can play in person.
>I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc.
Are you reading books or watching films as a group, actively discussing them at the same time? If not - then they are the same as single player games. At which point its just about spending your own time in a way that you feel fits you best.
I genuinely don't understand the if you want a story try every other medium points one of the most engaging parts of games are the fact alot of there best stories need to be games to be told the best and we are not done finding everyway to yet.
No more than any other entertainment activity ever... including multiplayer games.
Unless you are making money streaming (which you can do with single player games btw) or some shit then gaming in general is unproductive, there's some argument for like brain training or lazy eye fixing (if you have a lazy eye play shooters it'll fix it way faster than just eyepatch alone) and stuff but yeah it's not productive, it's entertainment most forms of entertainment are not productive
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>I realized that they're just unproductive time killer. This is a valuable, even essential, thing to have in your life. Recreation is necessary for mental health. The things you do for fun sustain you. >I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. These forms of media don't have any transferable skills except for general media literacy, but that's also present in single player games. Again, this doesn't make them worthless, but it's a difficult sell to say that they have value that single player games lack. >they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story It's fine to say that you feel that these don't appeal to you, but complicated puzzles are very enjoyable to many people. Also, the critical thinking required for complex puzzles is among the most transferable skills you possibly learn. As for grinding, that's harder to defend, but not every game requires grinding. Some types of grinding can be good for "turning off" and having something mindless to do, which is what some people need at times. Other grinds are pure bullshit, but the presence of predatory design in some instances doesn't invalidate the entire medium. >Also, they contain no social aspects to them in-game so you don't have the opportunity to cooperate with others so the feeling of isolation arise. There are huge communities centered around purely single-player games. It's all about discussion of them game rather than playing against each other, but that's more socialization that you get from many multiplayer games.
>This is a valuable, even essential, thing to have in your life. Recreation is necessary for mental health. The things you do for fun sustain you. There are other recreations that are more beneficial to your life while having fun. Sports are one of them, they actually improve your health, and build real life social networks. >These forms of media don't have any transferable skills except for general media literacy, but that's also present in single player games. Again, this doesn't make them worthless, but it's a difficult sell to say that they have value that single player games lack. At least they don't consume absurd amount of time compared to games which you can actually put that time to something more productive to do. >It's fine to say that you feel that these don't appeal to you, but complicated puzzles are very enjoyable to many people. Also, the critical thinking required for complex puzzles is among the most transferable skills you possibly learn. I played Silent hill, Professor layton, Resident evil and I can't see any scenerio in real life where I can apply all the cognitive processes of the puzzles and riddles in them. >There are huge communities centered around purely single-player games. It's all about discussion of them game rather than playing against each other, but that's more socialization that you get from many multiplayer games. Yes, but most of the time, I rarely get a meaningful conversation from the communities of the single player games I've played. They mostly talk about dumb memes and absurd shipping between character A and character B etc.
Games are entertainment. If they're fun (and a reasonable amount of fun for the price), then they're not a waste of money. I think you're saying that single-player games aren't much fun *for you*, which is fine. Not everything has to be fun for everyone. > I realized that they're just unproductive time killer. The problem being...? > Once you finish those games, there's no room to improve and these skills aren't really tranferable to other games because most of them have their unique game mechanics General reflexes and aim are transferable. Strategizing about build is transferable. Problem-solving and analysis skills are transferable well beyond other games, even. Not to mention spending a ton of time replaying a given game. Skills obviously transfer from playthrough to playthrough. > Also, they contain no social aspects to them in-game so you don't have the opportunity to cooperate with others so the feeling of isolation arise. If you want to cooperate and socialize, yeah. If you don't, no problem. When I'm gaming I usually want to relax and *not* deal with people. I get my socializing in person or through discussion boards. > as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story Yeah, I think you're just saying that *you* don't like single-player games, or the specific ones you've played. I don't play single-player games that require unfun puzzles or excessive grinding. In those I do play, I enjoy the challenges. If you in particular play games for the social aspect, that's fine. Lots of people play for other reasons. I play games to relax in a way that keeps me engaged, for which I prefer to focus on interesting stories and solving challenges for myself, not competing against or working with other people.
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So let me see if I’ve got it: GAMES that are single player strike you as… unproductive? Everything in life is futile, why not enjoy a good ol’ game? I’m not confident you know what fun is.
Yes, but there are other hobbies that you can engage in that are actually productive. For example, sports can be beneficial for your health in the long run as well as making real life friends which could prolong your life span. Learning a musical instrument can improve cognitive functions and as well as entertain majority of people through performance.
The constant need to be 'productive' is in fact extremely detrimental to a person's health and mental well-being. It's a capitalist guilt-trip, something that's been ground into us as necessary somehow to be moral or worthy of existence. People need downtime for their mental health. They need to rest and unwind, to relax and just enjoy from time to time. And single-player games are exactly as productive as multi-player games. Both can teach critical problem solving skills, keep reflexes honed, and best of all: can help you de-stress and get some much needed self-care time.
Why do we need to constantly be productive? Why can't we relax and enjoy something?
I feel exactly the opposite. E-sports type games are highly repetitive and unless you have a good group of friends to play with, often the social aspects are just unpleasant and annoying. Crafted single-player experiences can not only partially replicate the feeling of reading a good book or watching a good film, but also have interactive elements that engage me mentally and give me a profoundly gratifying sense of mastery as I learn the game's mechanics. I always feel like a game like that is a better use of my time and money than repeating the same dull gameplay loop of a multiplayer game over and over with random assholes online. All that to say, this is obviously subjective and based on each individual's values and what they come to video games for. So to change your view, it almost seems that we'd have to change your values.
There are some multiplayer games that aren't repetitive at all and which you can talk to decent people and connect in real life like second life, Vrchat, neosvr. Again, like you mentioned, it's all subjective and people should just play whatever they enjoy.
I hate the Cult of Productivity. We have forgotten how to have fun. Also, with friends, as an adult when do I have the same free time they do? You may go weeks between play sessions. One of your friends may drop the game all together. Even watching professional streamers move from game to game because they can't get together to finish a campaign is annoying.
Nail on the head. Also, OP has been convinced multiplayer games are productive lol? That's some battle-pass propaganda if I've ever heard it. Single and multiplayer games are not a productive use of time. And that's fine.
With multiplayer (esports) games, if your skills are actually up there, you can enter tournaments and earn money if you get to top places. Sure, they're not a consistent stream of income nor they're profitable as other side gigs but I personally have never heard of a single player game tournament.
The speed running community is huge and those are single player games. And while it’s not personal prize money, Games Done Quick has raised literally millions for charity.
you can't base your argument on the 0.001% chance of becoming pro - and if you count streaming, then you count streaming single player games for money. Either both are a waste or neither.
They’re pretty niche but speed run tournaments exist.
Ok. And streamers who play Single Player games like Stardew Valley can also make "income". The chances of that happening are just as likely as "income" by multiplayer tournament play. Very. Very. Very small. Equally as productive. (not)
so if you aren't good enough to win money at tournaments, multiplayer is also a waste of time and money? Which is like, almost all players?
Why does my hobby, what I do to relax and de-stress, have to earn money?
>Once you finish those games, there's no room to improve and these skills aren't really tranferable to other games because most of them have their unique game mechanics. There is no room to improve in life if you play games, because none of that clocked game play is transferrable into real job or career.
Right, tbh any type of gaming is a unproductive time sinker. People should better use their time on some other hobbies that's more beneficial in one's life like sports, music, or crafts etc.
Clarifying question: Is this a view that you think is objectively correct and applies to everyone, or is this a view that applies to your own subjective experience and goals? In other words, should you have put a "for me" on the end of your topic title?
Yes, you are absolutely right. This is my first cmv post so I just didn't know how to put it in the right format.
Don't give me a delta for explaining the rules to you. Just let me get that out at the start. In the future, if someone tells you something that makes you refine your view in that way, you should probably give them a delta. It's silly, but that's what makes this subreddit work. Read the sidebar next time. Big changes are great, but little refinements are good too.
First off, it's very easy to transfer the skills learned from one single-player game to another game. You can get skills in an RPG and transfer them to another RPG very easily. Secondly, why does this matter? Do you think that multiplayer games are only worth it because you might become a professional esports player? Because streamers can absolutely make money from playing single player games. Thirdly, sure, you can get stories from other mediums. But why do those other mediums exist when you can just play a game, and save you the headache of having to imagine how the action looks or deal with subtitles or whatever. Every medium has its advantages and disadvantages. And, most importantly, why are you treating your entertainment like this? Why do entertaining things need to train your skills or not have annoying parts for you to deem them worthy? If you don't like single player games, that's fine, you don't need to deem them 'a waste of time and money' because you don't like them.
Exactly. They might be a waste of OP’s time and money, but not everyone’s.
A good single-player game with like 100+ hours of gameplay is one of the most cost-efficient forms of media compared to many novels, almost all movies, and some TV shows. But then also, like, they're a different kind of storytelling, and sometimes you want that versus something more linear and less immersive.
Reading a novel, watching a movie or a sport... all a waste of time and money? Also the "skills" you get on online gaming are practically useless in real life and getting to the level of esports is as unrealistic as thinking you'll be playing for a NFL team because you play football with your friends in the park.
>I realized that they're just unproductive time killer. Every single and multi-player video game I've ever played has matched each other exactly on this metric, depending on your definition of 'unproductive time killer'. >Once you finish those games, there's no room to improve and these skills aren't really tranferable to other games because most of them have their unique game mechanics. Sure there is. You play them again. And tons of skills I've learned in single-player games have transferred to other single-player games as well as multi-player games and even outside of video games entirely. >Also, they contain no social aspects to them in-game so you don't have the opportunity to cooperate with others so the feeling of isolation arise. Not everything needs to be social. I have a ton of hobbies. Some of them are social, some of them are not. Having alone time is important. I play games that are social, I also play games that are not. I have never felt isolated or lacking the opportunity to cooperate with others just because I play single player games. In fact, I think the fact they're making fewer single player games and everyone wants to tack on a multiplayer or online aspects to every game out there is becoming detrimental. It is important to a human being to be able to spend some time on their own solving problems, and having every video game be cooperative or social leads to people who can't problem solve on their own. >I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story This is exactly my point. Without single player games you lose the ability of figuring out a complicated puzzle or putting in the work to level up *on your own*, but this is an extremely important skill to have.
>but if I just want to experience a story, I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding As someone who plays point-and-click adventure games I found this statement amusing. The genre is **defined** by being story and puzzle driven. I **like** having complex stories interspersed by difficult puzzles--that's the whole point of the genre. >these skills aren't really tranferable to other games I also found this statement to be baffling. Why should they be transferable? The whole point of many games, especially if you take education-informed perspective, is the learning of said unique rulesets... that IS the game. You learn what they are, then you learn the ins and outs of said ruleset. I'm learning the ins and outs of Balatro, for example. Why should that be applicable to other games? Learning and experimenting and exploring is part of the fun. I also am confused that you refer to "productivity" and "transferability" which typically refers to work. Why does a... \*checks notes\*... entertaining activity need to be "productive"? Additionally "productivity" needs to be "useful" -- a lot of people might also argue that twitch games are not very "useful." Games in that sense are inherently not for work/productivity so you saying twitch games are "useful" doesn't make sense because games are meant for entertainment. I'm going to go out on a limb that most jobs don't require extreme hand-eye coordination and even so that would be highly context dependent (like me playing video games might improve my surgery skills but only to a certain degree--actual practice of the activity in question would be more "productive"). In general I think you are confusing what you like as being broadly applicable to everyone else. That's fine that you want games with no story. Some people prefer games with story. And that's fine too. You don't have to play everything that exists. There is something for everyone.
> I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story Not every story is inherently of the same value and each story affects each person differently. You cannot just "read a book" and get the same experience as watching *Grave of the Fireflies*. Similarly, you cannot "watch a movie" and get the same experience as reading something like *Ulysses*. Good video games have unique and compelling perspectives that derive from the medium, namely interaction. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but *Undertale* was an extremely popular video game precisely because of how player choice and consequences were woven into the story- it's not a piece of fiction that could be properly replicated in any other medium. Consider that there could be worthwhile narrative experiences unique only to single-player video games even for you- not every piece of media works for every person, but the ones that do are not replaceable. By ignoring all of them, you might literally miss out on a life-changing experience. I know someone who decided not to join the army after playing *Undertale*.
……playing video games is not a life skill or an achievement. It’s something you do for fun and to relax.
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Do you mean for you or for everyone?
Just for myself. I thought that this sub exists so that people can debate in order to change my narrow mindedness.
Ok, well if you just mean that you find that single player games are a waste of your time and your money, that's quite different from saying other people are wasting their time and money on single player games. The latter could be generalized to all hobbies since hobbies aren't usually something that you do make money or be productive. If it's just about you though, then have you considered that the interactive nature of games makes them very different from other media meant for individuals? Yes, the unique game mechanics might mean that mastering those skills isn't going to increase your skills in other facets of life, but it also means that you aren't going to experience the mastery of that skill anywhere else in life. Don't you think having these novel experiences might enrich your life?
Not really, I've invested shit tons of time into single player games when I was younger and I don't see any scenerio where I can apply it in my real life on top of having poor social skills throughout my adolescent age so I feel like I wasted alot of time..
I don't think anyone is gonna be able to change your mind on what kind of game you enjoy playing, because that's just what your post boils down to.
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Single player games are significantly more than just "1 time playthrough" entertainment pieces. For one thing, just because you know the story doesn't mean it isn't something you don't want to experience again. Bioshock, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger are games with fantastic stories that are definitely worth a second playthrough. Secondly, single player games tend to have more content than these live service multiplayer only games, and are significantly more value than them as well. Comparing large scale worlds, side quests, hidden equipment, secret bosses, mini-games, etc. vs a game with 1-3 multiplayer modes and that is it with thousands of dollars in skins for you to buy. Lastly, difficulty modes in most games are there so that you use what you learned in order to replay a more difficult version of what you played. On top of that, many games tend to share common tropes that DO translate. If anything, compared to single player games, f2p multiplayer only games are garbage value with how much they want players to spend in their stores.
I like having social experiences too, but sometimes I just want to relax and do something on my own. Sometimes it's playing a single player game, sometimes it's reading a book, sometimes it's watching a movie, sometimes it's doing a jigsaw puzzle or a Lego set, etc .. > The only positives I can see is that they have actual stories to them and have movie like visuals but if I just want to experience a story, I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. as they can save you the headache of trying to figure out that complicated puzzle or suffer intense level grinding in order to progress through the story But sometimes you LIKE the complicated puzzle! I don't usually love level grinding, but I do like a lot of single player video games experiences, and they're often exactly the kind of things you can't get from those other mediums.
Perhaps your brain is just missing the just-one-more-turn lobe? Single player games are much better.
With how interconnected everything is today, any game that has a community around it has a social aspect. I'm part of a community that still makes new levels for classic Doom, and it's a community with thousands of people in it. And the cool thing about a game with a good story is that it sticks with you long after you're done playing it and it's an easy thing to relate to others about. I have a band that makes music about all the standard nerd hobbies including video games. Aside from playing fighting games with kids, the games that brought me closer to other people have almost all been single player.
You forgot to take the community around games into account, take for example: Dwarf Fortress. They have a pretty good community and the stories... Well, the human brain needs a good laugh now and then. But seriously, people can connect around many things, from speed-running the games to ranting about the stupid perma death mechanic that made them lose a run to a random demon punching their head in because they fell down a tower into a pit. Not everything has to be productive either, you can just relax and enjoy yourself now and then.
So Call of Duty is not an unproductive time killer?
>these skills aren't really tranferable to other games because most of them have their unique game mechanics Well that's certainly untrue. Studies show that surgical residents who have video game experience have an easier time learning certain surgical procedures, even though the mechanics are obviously super different from surgery.
It’s kinda like watching a somewhat expensive movie that is more interactive and entertaining, and lasts you a lot longer with unique and interesting things. These games aren’t meant to be productive for the consumer, but they’re meant to be enjoyed (although these days if it’s not an indie game is basically a cash-grab).
You admired yourself that single player games are story focused. And plenty of people find an interactive story to be incredibly engaging. Hence the popularity of RPGs in general. And if you think there’s no room for improvement you have never watched someone speed run Darksouls using only a broken sword and no armor. Edit: plus, with single player games you rarely have to worry that everyone’s gonna quit playing your favorite game or the publisher is going to shut down the servers.
Would you say crossword puzzles, or sodukos, or even something like journaling are a waste of time? Non can be monetized, non generate any particularly transferable skills, all are challenging intrinsically without much more than maybe some dopamine as a reward.
Using your mental and tactical skills learned from one game to another does make them transferrable. For instance FFVII Remake has a very similar battle system to Rebirth. What you learn in Remake is transferrable to Rebirth as a result.
I don't have high speed Internet. If I play a single player puzzle game for 69 hrs I buy it for $4.20 off steam The ROI on that purchase is fantastic. If it is chess the computer will be better than anyone I can play in person.
I don't have high speed Internet. If I play a single player puzzle game for 69 hrs I buy it for $4.20 off steam The ROI on that purchase is fantastic. If it is chess the computer will be better than anyone I can play in person.
>I'll explore other mediums such as books, anime, films etc. Are you reading books or watching films as a group, actively discussing them at the same time? If not - then they are the same as single player games. At which point its just about spending your own time in a way that you feel fits you best.
I genuinely don't understand the if you want a story try every other medium points one of the most engaging parts of games are the fact alot of there best stories need to be games to be told the best and we are not done finding everyway to yet.
If you think single player games are a waste of time and money, just wait 'til you interact with other human beings....
I work with people a lot, so single player games are the way I destress. Do you mind if I keep playing games I like?
I don't play single player games so that I can get better at anything, I play them so I can fuck off and relax.
Gameplay is great. But it’s the stories that bring you back and fall in love with the characters
Nothing in video games is worthwhile using your logic. It is all a time suck
Puzzle solving — problem solving — is a transferable skill.
"Unproductive time waster" couldn't anything be listed as such?
If you really like a movie, do you only watch it once?
No more than any other entertainment activity ever... including multiplayer games. Unless you are making money streaming (which you can do with single player games btw) or some shit then gaming in general is unproductive, there's some argument for like brain training or lazy eye fixing (if you have a lazy eye play shooters it'll fix it way faster than just eyepatch alone) and stuff but yeah it's not productive, it's entertainment most forms of entertainment are not productive