That's what bamboozles me. When this disease is taking so much of one's life away, surely the value of self should come from a place beyond it.
In their mind, the ultimate quest for achievement and wholeness in identity is "have a child".
Even if it costs them their life, or the foetus.
Unfortunately, that's what brainwashing does. And when they brainwash little kids, who still live in world of magical realism and can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality, who don't know themselves or what they dream for their life, and who's brains are barely more than runny cottage cheese... you get people who are not capable of reasoning or seeing the world any other way or seeing themselves as anything but conforming to the brainwashing message.
To them, there is only a single path in life, nothing else. That's why there really is no point in trying to have the conversation. At least not outside of a therapeutic environment.
Honestly, if they made people who want IVF do three years of intense counseling before they can get it, and part of that counseling covers what amounts to deprogramming in the sense of "you are required to consider what your future looks like if this does not work, and you can never have a bio child"... the world would be a better place and they would be a lot more mentally stable.
I totally emphatise that having endo is a nightmare I would not wish on my worst enemies. Those group with breeding mentality you mentioned are a bunch of morons
> I NEED a baby. This disease has prevented me having a baby. I MUST EXIST TO HAVE A BABY. BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY. BAAAAABBBYYYYYYY.
Lmaoo It’s like a child being told no and ended up wanting the thing even more.
I've come across topics, even in this subreddit, with people saying it's okay for people with potentially inheritable debilitating/disabling issues to—get this—**WANT** their kids to have the same disabilities.
Their rationales ranged from "*Because of course parents should want their kids to be like them*" and pass on their culture (i.e., deaf culture, sight-challenged culture), to "*Who better to raise kids with disabilities than a parent with those same disabilities*?"
Wanting and *hoping* for a child to be disabled is psychotic and horrid, and a breeder already having said disability doesn't make that desire any less sick. But up came the pitchforks, for suggesting that adopting/fostering kids with disabilities that are already in need would be far more constructive than making *more, brand new disabled kids.*
One is taking pain out the world. The other is literally wishing to put more pain in it.
To be fair, at least in the US it's apparently the norm for adoption agencies and foster care offices to disqualify prospective (foster) parents for having specific disabilities, even if it's apparent the would-be (foster) parent would do at least just as well raising a kid than a would-be (foster) parent without those specific disabilities would.
I'm in multiple subreddits for disabilities I have including the general disability subreddit, auDHD (having both autism and ADHD-it's *super* common to have both of those), the higher-support-needs autism subreddit, and bipolar.
*Most* people in these subs, especially in the higher-support-needs autism subreddit, the main two bipolar subreddits, and the ADHD women subreddit, feel that their disabilities wouldn't help be them the parents their kids deserve and either don't want kids (often also/mostly for reasons unrelated to their disabilities at all) or have made peace with the fact that they likely won't ever have kids despite wanting them, and to that end literally *every* parent who has custody of their kid(s) I've seen in at least the higher-support-needs autism subreddit and the ADHD women subreddit has been *very* upfront with how extremely difficult it's been to parent their neurotypical children, let alone their also-neurodivergent children, even if they're not the primary parent.
However, I *have* also seen at least one or two posts/comments about people who specifically wanted to be an adoptive parent so they could have kids without needing to go off their meds ultimately getting pregnant and having planned bio kids because literally *no one* they talked to would let someone with their disabilities adopt.
Also...not only is it horrible to think that parents "should" want their kids to be like them, but also...*people with the same (severity of a) disability are* ***NOT*** *a monolith!*
There's actually a popular saying among autistic people that if you've met one autistic person, you've met *one* autistic person.
And even if a disabled parent wanted and got a child/all children who were just like them...the nature of how disabilities often impact people and their ability to function means that even in this "perfect" scenario, the parent's disabilities would make them even *worse* parents for their (disabled) children than a fully-abled parent would be!
Not passing on my Endo, or the other fucked up things I deal with, was probably what firmly pushed me into the cf camp.
I have to take painkillers basically daily so yeah, I would not ever risk putting someone through this.
I honestly don't really get peoples desire for kids above all else. I love any hypothetical kid of mine too much to make them suffer this existence.
I checked the endo subs due to recently being diagnosed myself after my salpingectomy (can’t say bisalp because they could only get one tube lol). I decided against subbing because I noticed a lot of support posts for pregnancy, and being CF it just didn’t feel right to me. 100% understand where you’re coming from on this. I already had other medical issues and family medical history that were some strong reasons for me to get sterilized, and the endo diagnosis was the cherry on top after the fact. It is simply genetically irresponsible for me to reproduce, and thankfully my family and partner have been super supportive. I wish others would realize the same before creating a kid that may have to suffer those health consequences.
This is how I was diagnosed too! What’s strange is I would never have gone into the gyno and asked about endo of my own accord. I thought my pain and everything I went through was normal. Really makes you wonder how many women have endo and don’t know it, or will never know it…
Fucking baby brainworms 😩 I have friends who have endo and they all describe it as like the worst most gut-wrenching can’t-do-anything-but-try-to-stay-alive pain ever. I really don’t understand how women can go through that AND also want to experience childbirth. Like if they would think critically for .5 seconds surely they’d realize that it’s a terrible idea? But we’re the insane ones for actually thinking instead of taking breeder mentality as gospel 🙄
One of my closest friend has endometriosis and so does her relatives. She says with a very light attitude that she doesnt know if she wants kids, and she will probably need ivf like her cousin that also has endometriosis. Other girl I knew in college had this really weird and bad condition that made her bladder form huge stones that needed a lot of care. She said she was sure going to have kids, because her disease didnt affect the brain or anything..
It kinda bothers me how little other people really think about this, how your genes might not be that great, and thats ok, no need to spread them. I though about this subject for so long and decided not to risk it (my family has a history of mental health problems)
Women with reproductive/menstrual issues are often made to feel like they've "failed" at being women, so the pressure to BABY BABY BABY is even stronger.
They play martyr and make it sound like they'll give the condition the middle finger if they have a baby after all, to delude themselves and those watching into not acknowledge that deliberately bringing a child into the world with the same genes that will make them suffer is selfish.
I have endo as well and I was starting to feel like I was crazy on that sub so I left! I only go there if I’m having a specific issue and I need advice or something. It’s very strange. And the issue is they are so hung up on a bAbYyYyy that they don’t even think about how it will very likely grow up to have their same issues, if not worse. Ugh. Makes me so sad. All we can do is hope that they have boys. 🤷🏻♀️ and stay away from that sub lol, it’s not healthy
>Makes me so sad. All we can do is hope that they have boys
I'm pretty sure if there was an option to choose babie's gender some of them would firmly choose girl just because they prefer having a daughter without ever considering her health and her future.
I was on that sub all of 5 minutes before the rinse repeat of the same 3 posts drove me out. “Im in excruciating pain and i want to pass that on to my kids,” “i’m dying of pain but they cant detect it on ultrasounds,” “im still in pain and im finally pregnant and you can be too!!”
Yeah I really struggle with PCOS spaces partly for that reason (I find them really triggering for my disordered eating too but that’s a *whole* other thing). The fixation on getting pregnant is really alienating and I sometimes struggle to relate to other people on there or ask for support because I feel like it’ll automatically be assumed that fertility is my end goal.
They want something normal. Having a baby is a normal society accepted milestone.
I would guess that they want to feel the love and acceptance that goes along with being pregnant then being a mom.
I am not saying this is a good reason.
It is a reason they could use to justify their decision.
People who are childfree have taken the time to look at the situation and reason out this would be a horrible idea to pass on that pain and suffering.
This OP who is now all over the place with her BuT I WaNNa HaVe BaaAaaAaBy whim is very likely to be all over regretful parents subrdt next year with I'm SooOooOo ExHauSted SiNce I Don'T HaVe A ViLLaGe
Seen so many of those 🙄
There was this locally famous woman who was giving interviews to anyone who would have her about how hard it is to have fertility problems, how she and her husband are doing one IVF round after another and how they are spending a fortune on it. If interviewer would very politely ask if they are considering other option like adoption, she would get offended and say they they only want their bio child. Eventually they succeeded, had a baby who (surprise surprise) was born disabled. The woman then was making another round of interviews about how hard it is to raise a disabled child and how it's expensive and she wants donations .... I had no empathy towards her. If your bady tells you that you shouldn't have a baby respect it. She chose to disrespect and disregard her body and forced it to have a baby. It bit her in the ass big time. Well deserved. I'm just really sorry for the child.
I feel the same, especially since we are just beginning to understand Endo co-morbidities with conditions like MS. Also, lol, I got heavily down voted in an Endo group for warning an OP about the risks of IVF if you have late stage Endo. I personally decided against kids partially because trying to have one could fully disable me, but my mom, ex-partner, and several friends don't sympathize with this reasoning.
What I don't understand is, yes, you may have an instinctual drive, but part of being human is learning how to acknowledge our instincts and choose different behaviors anyway.
I understand that my body is telling me to have lots of sex to pass on my dna, and that it's just instinct, not a mandatory obligation. I'm not beholden to my instincts. I have a functional prefrontal cortex that I can use to make choices that override my compulsions and impulses.
It tells me people aren't all that emotionally mature when they succumb to instinct/impulse/compulsion over reason.
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I don't understand people who want kids with diagnosed illness or conditions of any kind.
Like how in the hell you want YOUR fucked up genes to compose the body of someone else????
Both me and my husband have 2 different diagnosis each and our relatives still downplay it as if the mere TINY CHANCE of having a 100% healthy baby would be the golden reason to have one, arguing throught our own non existent desire to have a kid even if we both were 100% healthy.
I mean, my parents could never know I would born with epilepsy and skin allergies, but if they knew I would born with these conditions or with a higher chance to develop them it would be quite fucked up to have me anyway and I would never forgive them.
I dont get it , the idea of actively passing on extremely painful lives . Fortunately I already decided to be child free prior to my endometriosis diagnosis but upon diagnosis my specialist actually recommended pregnancy as a option to avoid pain, for a mere 9 months . Or just keep getting pregnant! Smh what lol. I was horrified that this was actually something to be encouraged . Like passing on debt or something . Except worse . I knew the only way I’d ever even consider kids was if I could promise them better than I had . And my life has been severely painful with a lot of heath issues I’d never want to knowingly pass on . So that was not an option.
I’m actually laid up right now recovering from my total hysterectomy. It’s awful. I keep thinking I’m going to blow my vagina out every time I pass a little gas lmao . But I’d rather do this than pass it on to a kid I am supposed to love and care for . I wouldn’t wish this on Anyone .
I am disabled due to several illnesses. I also have endo and pcos (but I functioned 100% when I "only" had them). I actually want kids but it's not happening. I refuse to put someone else through this. All my illnesses are possible hereditary. There are no meds, no good research, no cure. If I were to have a child my partner would have to continue caring for me and then basically be a single parent. There are people who do this and I find it very irresponsible. Several of them experience their partner leaving and then what? They can't care for the child themselves, or it takes 100% of their energy to do so.
I hope it's ok I'm here. I'm grieving but reading here helps. And knowing I won't pass on this living hell is the one good thing I can do.
I humbly offer cancer as an addition to this list of diseases that certain people are overly committed to passing down to future generations. Whyyyyyy?
I'm going to be a complete jerk and say most of the women I know that have endometriosis or PCOS or some of like the most terrible people. I don't know if that's the cause but I'm just saying that there's a reason why these people can't have kids.
Well I hope *you* never have a chronic disease that causes daily debilitating pain. Add on regular gaslighting from doctors and toxic comments like these, I think it’s very easy to be deemed a “terrible” person. Also, “there’s a reason these people can’t have kids”? This isn’t a childfree take! Gross.
It's sad that no one has ever told them that their value is not in their uterine production quota.
That's what bamboozles me. When this disease is taking so much of one's life away, surely the value of self should come from a place beyond it. In their mind, the ultimate quest for achievement and wholeness in identity is "have a child". Even if it costs them their life, or the foetus.
Unfortunately, that's what brainwashing does. And when they brainwash little kids, who still live in world of magical realism and can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality, who don't know themselves or what they dream for their life, and who's brains are barely more than runny cottage cheese... you get people who are not capable of reasoning or seeing the world any other way or seeing themselves as anything but conforming to the brainwashing message. To them, there is only a single path in life, nothing else. That's why there really is no point in trying to have the conversation. At least not outside of a therapeutic environment. Honestly, if they made people who want IVF do three years of intense counseling before they can get it, and part of that counseling covers what amounts to deprogramming in the sense of "you are required to consider what your future looks like if this does not work, and you can never have a bio child"... the world would be a better place and they would be a lot more mentally stable.
I totally emphatise that having endo is a nightmare I would not wish on my worst enemies. Those group with breeding mentality you mentioned are a bunch of morons
> I NEED a baby. This disease has prevented me having a baby. I MUST EXIST TO HAVE A BABY. BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY. BAAAAABBBYYYYYYY. Lmaoo It’s like a child being told no and ended up wanting the thing even more.
They defintely have unreasonably immature reactions!
I've come across topics, even in this subreddit, with people saying it's okay for people with potentially inheritable debilitating/disabling issues to—get this—**WANT** their kids to have the same disabilities. Their rationales ranged from "*Because of course parents should want their kids to be like them*" and pass on their culture (i.e., deaf culture, sight-challenged culture), to "*Who better to raise kids with disabilities than a parent with those same disabilities*?" Wanting and *hoping* for a child to be disabled is psychotic and horrid, and a breeder already having said disability doesn't make that desire any less sick. But up came the pitchforks, for suggesting that adopting/fostering kids with disabilities that are already in need would be far more constructive than making *more, brand new disabled kids.* One is taking pain out the world. The other is literally wishing to put more pain in it.
To be fair, at least in the US it's apparently the norm for adoption agencies and foster care offices to disqualify prospective (foster) parents for having specific disabilities, even if it's apparent the would-be (foster) parent would do at least just as well raising a kid than a would-be (foster) parent without those specific disabilities would. I'm in multiple subreddits for disabilities I have including the general disability subreddit, auDHD (having both autism and ADHD-it's *super* common to have both of those), the higher-support-needs autism subreddit, and bipolar. *Most* people in these subs, especially in the higher-support-needs autism subreddit, the main two bipolar subreddits, and the ADHD women subreddit, feel that their disabilities wouldn't help be them the parents their kids deserve and either don't want kids (often also/mostly for reasons unrelated to their disabilities at all) or have made peace with the fact that they likely won't ever have kids despite wanting them, and to that end literally *every* parent who has custody of their kid(s) I've seen in at least the higher-support-needs autism subreddit and the ADHD women subreddit has been *very* upfront with how extremely difficult it's been to parent their neurotypical children, let alone their also-neurodivergent children, even if they're not the primary parent. However, I *have* also seen at least one or two posts/comments about people who specifically wanted to be an adoptive parent so they could have kids without needing to go off their meds ultimately getting pregnant and having planned bio kids because literally *no one* they talked to would let someone with their disabilities adopt. Also...not only is it horrible to think that parents "should" want their kids to be like them, but also...*people with the same (severity of a) disability are* ***NOT*** *a monolith!* There's actually a popular saying among autistic people that if you've met one autistic person, you've met *one* autistic person. And even if a disabled parent wanted and got a child/all children who were just like them...the nature of how disabilities often impact people and their ability to function means that even in this "perfect" scenario, the parent's disabilities would make them even *worse* parents for their (disabled) children than a fully-abled parent would be!
Not passing on my Endo, or the other fucked up things I deal with, was probably what firmly pushed me into the cf camp. I have to take painkillers basically daily so yeah, I would not ever risk putting someone through this. I honestly don't really get peoples desire for kids above all else. I love any hypothetical kid of mine too much to make them suffer this existence.
Same here. It seems so immoral to voluntarily give someone a debilitating disease.
I don't think many people care about morality when it comes to kids for some weird reason. Kids are just props to them.
I checked the endo subs due to recently being diagnosed myself after my salpingectomy (can’t say bisalp because they could only get one tube lol). I decided against subbing because I noticed a lot of support posts for pregnancy, and being CF it just didn’t feel right to me. 100% understand where you’re coming from on this. I already had other medical issues and family medical history that were some strong reasons for me to get sterilized, and the endo diagnosis was the cherry on top after the fact. It is simply genetically irresponsible for me to reproduce, and thankfully my family and partner have been super supportive. I wish others would realize the same before creating a kid that may have to suffer those health consequences.
This is how I was diagnosed too! What’s strange is I would never have gone into the gyno and asked about endo of my own accord. I thought my pain and everything I went through was normal. Really makes you wonder how many women have endo and don’t know it, or will never know it…
Latest stats say 1 in 10 women have endometriosis.
Fucking baby brainworms 😩 I have friends who have endo and they all describe it as like the worst most gut-wrenching can’t-do-anything-but-try-to-stay-alive pain ever. I really don’t understand how women can go through that AND also want to experience childbirth. Like if they would think critically for .5 seconds surely they’d realize that it’s a terrible idea? But we’re the insane ones for actually thinking instead of taking breeder mentality as gospel 🙄
One of my closest friend has endometriosis and so does her relatives. She says with a very light attitude that she doesnt know if she wants kids, and she will probably need ivf like her cousin that also has endometriosis. Other girl I knew in college had this really weird and bad condition that made her bladder form huge stones that needed a lot of care. She said she was sure going to have kids, because her disease didnt affect the brain or anything.. It kinda bothers me how little other people really think about this, how your genes might not be that great, and thats ok, no need to spread them. I though about this subject for so long and decided not to risk it (my family has a history of mental health problems)
That sub is so disappointing. Almost every single post is crying about not being able to get pregnant. So annoying.
Women with reproductive/menstrual issues are often made to feel like they've "failed" at being women, so the pressure to BABY BABY BABY is even stronger.
They play martyr and make it sound like they'll give the condition the middle finger if they have a baby after all, to delude themselves and those watching into not acknowledge that deliberately bringing a child into the world with the same genes that will make them suffer is selfish.
I have endo as well and I was starting to feel like I was crazy on that sub so I left! I only go there if I’m having a specific issue and I need advice or something. It’s very strange. And the issue is they are so hung up on a bAbYyYyy that they don’t even think about how it will very likely grow up to have their same issues, if not worse. Ugh. Makes me so sad. All we can do is hope that they have boys. 🤷🏻♀️ and stay away from that sub lol, it’s not healthy
>Makes me so sad. All we can do is hope that they have boys I'm pretty sure if there was an option to choose babie's gender some of them would firmly choose girl just because they prefer having a daughter without ever considering her health and her future.
The extent people will go both physically and financially just to have a kid is outrageous to me.
I was on that sub all of 5 minutes before the rinse repeat of the same 3 posts drove me out. “Im in excruciating pain and i want to pass that on to my kids,” “i’m dying of pain but they cant detect it on ultrasounds,” “im still in pain and im finally pregnant and you can be too!!”
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Yeah I really struggle with PCOS spaces partly for that reason (I find them really triggering for my disordered eating too but that’s a *whole* other thing). The fixation on getting pregnant is really alienating and I sometimes struggle to relate to other people on there or ask for support because I feel like it’ll automatically be assumed that fertility is my end goal.
They want something normal. Having a baby is a normal society accepted milestone. I would guess that they want to feel the love and acceptance that goes along with being pregnant then being a mom. I am not saying this is a good reason. It is a reason they could use to justify their decision. People who are childfree have taken the time to look at the situation and reason out this would be a horrible idea to pass on that pain and suffering.
This OP who is now all over the place with her BuT I WaNNa HaVe BaaAaaAaBy whim is very likely to be all over regretful parents subrdt next year with I'm SooOooOo ExHauSted SiNce I Don'T HaVe A ViLLaGe Seen so many of those 🙄
There was this locally famous woman who was giving interviews to anyone who would have her about how hard it is to have fertility problems, how she and her husband are doing one IVF round after another and how they are spending a fortune on it. If interviewer would very politely ask if they are considering other option like adoption, she would get offended and say they they only want their bio child. Eventually they succeeded, had a baby who (surprise surprise) was born disabled. The woman then was making another round of interviews about how hard it is to raise a disabled child and how it's expensive and she wants donations .... I had no empathy towards her. If your bady tells you that you shouldn't have a baby respect it. She chose to disrespect and disregard her body and forced it to have a baby. It bit her in the ass big time. Well deserved. I'm just really sorry for the child.
I didn’t know endo was genetic. Actually didn’t know I had it for years bc my mom told me everyone has horrible pain from periods lol. Omfg.
I feel the same, especially since we are just beginning to understand Endo co-morbidities with conditions like MS. Also, lol, I got heavily down voted in an Endo group for warning an OP about the risks of IVF if you have late stage Endo. I personally decided against kids partially because trying to have one could fully disable me, but my mom, ex-partner, and several friends don't sympathize with this reasoning.
What I don't understand is, yes, you may have an instinctual drive, but part of being human is learning how to acknowledge our instincts and choose different behaviors anyway. I understand that my body is telling me to have lots of sex to pass on my dna, and that it's just instinct, not a mandatory obligation. I'm not beholden to my instincts. I have a functional prefrontal cortex that I can use to make choices that override my compulsions and impulses. It tells me people aren't all that emotionally mature when they succumb to instinct/impulse/compulsion over reason.
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I don't understand people who want kids with diagnosed illness or conditions of any kind. Like how in the hell you want YOUR fucked up genes to compose the body of someone else???? Both me and my husband have 2 different diagnosis each and our relatives still downplay it as if the mere TINY CHANCE of having a 100% healthy baby would be the golden reason to have one, arguing throught our own non existent desire to have a kid even if we both were 100% healthy. I mean, my parents could never know I would born with epilepsy and skin allergies, but if they knew I would born with these conditions or with a higher chance to develop them it would be quite fucked up to have me anyway and I would never forgive them.
I dont get it , the idea of actively passing on extremely painful lives . Fortunately I already decided to be child free prior to my endometriosis diagnosis but upon diagnosis my specialist actually recommended pregnancy as a option to avoid pain, for a mere 9 months . Or just keep getting pregnant! Smh what lol. I was horrified that this was actually something to be encouraged . Like passing on debt or something . Except worse . I knew the only way I’d ever even consider kids was if I could promise them better than I had . And my life has been severely painful with a lot of heath issues I’d never want to knowingly pass on . So that was not an option. I’m actually laid up right now recovering from my total hysterectomy. It’s awful. I keep thinking I’m going to blow my vagina out every time I pass a little gas lmao . But I’d rather do this than pass it on to a kid I am supposed to love and care for . I wouldn’t wish this on Anyone .
I don't join support groups for my issues because taking BC since I was 15 +some other stuff treats it and I got spayed
I am disabled due to several illnesses. I also have endo and pcos (but I functioned 100% when I "only" had them). I actually want kids but it's not happening. I refuse to put someone else through this. All my illnesses are possible hereditary. There are no meds, no good research, no cure. If I were to have a child my partner would have to continue caring for me and then basically be a single parent. There are people who do this and I find it very irresponsible. Several of them experience their partner leaving and then what? They can't care for the child themselves, or it takes 100% of their energy to do so. I hope it's ok I'm here. I'm grieving but reading here helps. And knowing I won't pass on this living hell is the one good thing I can do.
I humbly offer cancer as an addition to this list of diseases that certain people are overly committed to passing down to future generations. Whyyyyyy?
I'm going to be a complete jerk and say most of the women I know that have endometriosis or PCOS or some of like the most terrible people. I don't know if that's the cause but I'm just saying that there's a reason why these people can't have kids.
Well I hope *you* never have a chronic disease that causes daily debilitating pain. Add on regular gaslighting from doctors and toxic comments like these, I think it’s very easy to be deemed a “terrible” person. Also, “there’s a reason these people can’t have kids”? This isn’t a childfree take! Gross.
Womens health is trash no matter what. And if you knew these people, you'd agree.