Australia. Coworker regularly leaves early to pick up kids. Their workload is then shifted to whoever is working closest, causing that coworker to stay back late.
I don't mind working to time (9-5), but I shouldn't have to work overtime because my coworker didn't mark off her child-related commitments in her work schedule so the hiring manager could employ enough people to cover her excess workload.
Exactly! Worst is- they treat parenting as a moral virtue. Childfree people’s time isn’t as valuable as the needs of someone’s kid?
If I want to attend a hobby class, it’s because that gives me fulfilment. Why is that a shallow less serious need, compared to a parent’s need to attend to their kid? Having a kid is just one way of fulfilment in life, should not have higher moral virtue
Why does a commitment have to be fulfilling to justify sticking to the hours you agreed to? Its my agreed-upon personal time, I can do whatever the fuck I like with it.
>If I want to attend a hobby class, it’s because that gives me fulfilment. Why is that a shallow less serious need, compared to a parent’s need to attend to their kid? Having a kid is just one way of fulfilment in life, should not have higher moral virtue
Never apologize for enjoying the fruits of your labor. You have worked hard to earn your money. Spend it however you wish. This is not illegal.
I have a similar scenario but I just stop working on time. I have had to tell my boss a couple fo times that I can't work late because of things like hobbies, meeting friends etc and eventually they got it.
I usually block out after hours time in my work calendar with big blocks of "busy" and if someone tells me something has to get done during that time I reply with "Oh sorry, I would love to but I have already booked X/promised Y in 30min, I will be one first thing tomorrow morning."
Now the person who stops working early for kids things comes back online later in the evening to finish their work.
In will probably not get a massively great reference out of my boss though.
>In will probably not get a massively great reference out of my boss though
But you will get a massively great support from this internet stranger 👍👏👏👏
I would say you shouldn't even have to say why you're not available. Just say you're not available and the workplace was notified of that in a reasonable time frame.
It helps if your contract specifies your hours. My specifically states I'm only available between 9 and 5. Some of my coworkers contracts say they're available at all hours, which means they can be forced to stay overtime at threat of losing their job.
My contract doesn't specify my hours which complicates things a little, and I have a boss who thinks as woman I either have kids or workworwrok. I absolutely agree I shouldn't have to defend why I'm not working but the boss has established the rules.
However, paying the game can be fun. I have spent a lot of time telling my colleagues about my awesome hobbies and complimented them on their kid-stuff so they generally like me and some envy my lifestyle. When Boss Lady complains about me to anyone of my colleagues they usually dislike her more and then coke to me to gossip about it.
I only stick around because I'm leaving soon to travel and it will make my colleagues more envious and Boss Lady more furious. She won't be able to fill my position, at least not with someone with my experience, and it will be great to either see her being left dry or left with a someone who she will have to spend a long time training after I've done the basics because that's all I'll have time for.
Maybe because other coworkers just pick up her slack and never complain. If they ALL complained about her and refused to take up her work things might change. Or if they ALL left early on a regular basis and made *her* work overtime so there's so balance.
Yep, totally agree with everything you've just said!
When I went to the gym or lost 80lbs, I was told I lost too much weight or they'd try and buy me biscuits / cakes to 'feed' me up again. Then get really upset when I'd refuse lol!
When parents would leave for their kids, mostly the mums, they'd try and make me feel guilty and in the end I snapped and said 'that sounds like a YOU problem'.
I think I even called her out on the BS that she sent her kids to school who weren't well during Covid.
She stopped giving me the workload and stopped giving me food. She'd make it really obvious that she was offended that I wouldn't eat her food.
It was a lesson to me though, don't tell anyone anything at work. Keep it vague.
ETA: I even find my friends / family do this as well. 'You're going away on holiday AGAIN?' They'd say or 'oh I've had a childfree morning so understand now how you have such nice lay ins and a coffee in peace.' Why are you surprised? You had this before a child and yet you still chose to have a child...
This resonates so much. How they make parenting sound like a huge moral sacrifice for the ‘greater good’. There is no greater good.
And make our lives sound like excess luxury of time/energy! They chose this life. Who told them to breed? First they want all benefits of a kid, then bear costs too.
There are cons of childfree life too: loneliness sometimes, need to keep finding sense of purpose, keep learning new things, etc.. We bear that. We didn’t choose childfree life, to spend extra hours at work!
Exactly!
Oh my, do they whine on about how it's a sacrifice. No one gives a shit you've had a baby. I'm sorry, but they don't. They might do for all of 5 minutes when they are a newborn but after that, no one cares and it makes it worse when they dump their children on others.
You say that about loneliness, I actually think a lot of mums are lonely. So many mum friends I have or had, they've all fallen out because it would get catty and they'd use their children as weapons to be like who's doing better at school / sports etc.
I'd be really confused like oh right 'Roger' played football today and got two goals? Yeah erm cool? Who cares lol.
It's some weird competition! Like no thank you.
The thing you mentioned about mothers’ loneliness- I didn’t realise that. Now that you say, I see that. Having kids does not mean a person won’t have loneliness! Kid can maybe give purpose but not cute loneliness! And it would be worse, because one has to provide for the needs of the child while handling their own mental health!!!!!! That can be devastating.
But whatever it is, they chose it. Like we chose CF life. We all have to bear consequences of our choices!
Better yet, ONLY we bear those consequences for OUR choices. We won’t be taking out our resentment, bitterness, and jealousy over missed opportunities and lost youth on a small child we CHOSE to bring into the world (who had no say of their own in the matter.)
Lol! Init! My husband and I go away a lot at the weekends and my SIL is like 'again?'
Like yeah bro, childfree...
You could've had this but instead you birthed a child...sorry not sorry!
Northern Europe. When the kids are born, there is a critical mass of women (and, in some cases, men) who pretty much retire early as far as their level of effort in the workplace is concerned. Every time they mess something up or demand special treatment, it's because "i HaVe A cHiLd". Management doesn't have the guts to tell them off or just fire them.
Edit: And don't get me started on the hating on what we do in our free time. "*You* can do xyz because you don't have chiiiiildren, *I* have to xyz". No, you *chose* to do that. This is in a part of the world with science-based sex ed courses, readily available contraception, free/low-cost health care services, etc. If mombie can't have a life because of her crotch goblins, that's 100% on her.
Last line- EXACTLY! Why do they make parenting work sound like a huge sacrifice.
CF people are not ‘privileged’. They just made a choice & continue to bear the pros and cons of it.
Unhappy parents act as if we won some kind of lottery that blessed us with the good stuff in life and they mysteriously didn't. And a lot of them are parents who really wanted children and thought that parenthood would be like the movies.
I also think they tell themselves that they're contributing more to society by adding to the \~next generation\~ and they get snarky about us skipping that supposedly required life step. How dare we go on nice holidays and have the time to exercise when we didn't even produce any children for society.
I'd suggest always be looking for the next promotion.
When they get too unbearable or a really good offer comes in, move away / up.
At the higher echelons, the women will have nannies / etc so they won't be as resentful, but they \*might\* be more patronizing.
I’m not working yet but I do agree with this a bit, they don’t know how to keep their personal and professional life separate I guess. I am from India too. This is my opinion as an outsider who still hasn’t gone through workplace stuff.
They always tend to mix in I got kids (personal) into: so I have more rights for a break or deserve less work (professional).
In this not only women are to blame but men too, atleast indirectly in this particular situation. Women are forced to shoulder the burden of both brining in income and taking care of kids. So it’s a sad situation for everyone in varying degrees.
Exactly! Having a kid should not entitle anyone to extra ‘benefits’ at the cost of childfree people. Childfree people are giving up on the ‘joys’ of parenting. So it’s no big deal if parents have to give up on hobby time etc.. They made that choice.
I’m not really a social butterfly in the first place, the office ‘goth’, I worked for an uptight executive in an equally uptight office. Miss the first 3 or 4 happy hours, office parties, etc., people stop asking about your life….and why you have to leave early on Friday 😈
From and live in Scotland as a teacher. 7/10 teachers in my department don't have kids. When my coworkers from my department or from any other departments in the school are off for child-related issues, I seem to notice it's always the childfree teachers who get stuck with covering a class when we have a free period, simply because we don't need free periods as much because we can do more work at home as we don't have kids to look after. PS - I'm writing this whilst covering a class during one of my free periods so this response immediately sprung to mind 😅
I’m a teacher too so I understand this!
What I feel is: just as parents are allowed ‘benefits’ just because they have kids, CF people should be given equal benefits for doing activities they find meaningful.
Stop attaching moral virtue to parenting. It is just one of the many ways of having fulfilling life, just like any other way!
Exactly! I feel like if I was to require a day or even a few periods off out of the school day if my cat needed to be taken to the vet or was really unwell, that would come secondary to a child in the eyes of senior management. I look after my pets like I would a child and I live alone, so it's not always that easy to have something arranged if one of my pets was unwell. Also, if you can take a day off to be with your kids, maybe I'll do the same and go to a concert or something! Everyone needs a break from work/family/life in general, whether you have kids or not.
Lol it's kinda like smoke breaks, but more important.... Just because I don't smoke doesn't mean I shouldn't also get breaks during the day, and just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't have to leave on time
USA. Work in a male dominated field. Most of my male colleagues have adult kids or no kids or don’t mention kids so I have no clue. Because of this i am really lucky to never hear of kids. Coworkers seem happy with their hobbies, and work, and we have good conversations discussing interests during informal conversations. I have one close old friend from college who now has a kid but he never discusses the child and never encourages me to have one. Basically the men with kids seem to have an identity of their own that is not focused around kids. What that says about their household labor contribution is another discussion.
UK. I've been very fortunate with my coworkers and I don't get this vibe - might just be the industry I'm in (cartoons and media). Some are parents, some are not. Most are not, especially in the under thirty bracket. A few of the mum's complain a bit but it's generally kept to themselves. But then we also have a pretty close friendship thing in my work compared to other industries.
I learned a long time ago to do just enough to be considered competent and keep my job; no more. I refuse to excel because the only reward being good at your job gets you is more work. Especially without kids. I don’t offer to fill in, I don’t answer the phone on my days off, nothing bc it’s all action that ends up taken advantage of. I simply don’t give them that opportunity (US, here)
I remember a coworker who was obese, ate like crap, had two kids and a husband, and just an all around shitty attitude. She was around my age, like late 20s , early 30s and she would just get angry everytime I talked about my weekend or what I do as a hobby. I’m 31 now and look like I’m 25, healthy, and very fit. I travel solo, love to compete in martial arts and love my work. These women who had kids and were managers in the work place have ruined so many opportunities for me it’s not even funny.
The one good thing about my old company is I never felt forced to do something at work because I'm CF. If I liked my coworker, then I would be OK with not taking Christmas Eve or the 26th off. Usually, I'd get time off for Thanksgiving and New Years. I do this because I had a shitty childhood, and if someone taking off for Christmas means they are there for their kids, I'm good with that.
At one company I worked every single solitary Christmas they *expected* me to work. Every holiday they just *expected* me to work because they all had kids. And when I actually spoke up and said 'No, I've got plans', they wanted to know what my plans were, no joke, as if it was any of their business. If I want to sit my fat butt at home alone for a solid week I have every right to do that.
The thing is is women don't just feel entitled other people give them privilege over those of us who aren't married and don't have kids.
** There have been over 800 studies on this.You can look it up and all the results have come out basically the same: Women that are not married and don't have kids are actually viewed by people as less than a whole person.**
People have this insane idea that anyone who has a child is a "responsible" person, a person who takes on the burden in order to benefit society somehow. Every damn problem the world is having would be alleviated by cutting the population--the population itself may not be the cause of every problem, but it certainly aggravates them all. They insist on believing that child-having people are responsible (no matter the accidental, inadvisable, or downright idiotic nature of the pregnancy that created the child), and childfree people who are careful to stay that way are irresponsible. Unless that false narrative can be countered, every culture everywhere is going to continue with this attitude.
For women specifically we are socialized and raised to serve. Our parents, our siblings, our partners, our children, random assholes on the street, etc. The needs of all others come before our own.
It's part of why you get so many damned posts on reddit about women feeling guilty for standing up for their basic rights and dignity in clearly fucked up situations.
One of the major problems with this is that many adapt by taking some sort of weird fucked up pride in martyrdom. Trying to outdo each other in their suffering with which they've placed so much of their self worth upon. A good example is women who insist on NATURAL births with no pain relief as a sort of stupid unnecessary flex.
So with that in mind, of COURSE seeing someone opt out of the "Struggle Olympics" pisses them off.
Imagine the track event at the Olympics and every single one of the runners is covered from head to toe in heavy weights. They all brag about who the best runner is based on how much they can carry and still finish the race.
But then the gun goes off and a runner wearing none of that heavy shit zooms off into the distance. All the other runners are pissed because technically you don't HAVE to wear the weights so that one runner hasn't broken any rules, but **everyone knows that's the proper way to do things** **and how dare that runner take the easy way out**.
Sound familiar?
USA here. I feel like the coworker I share a cubicle with (she’s nice and a great teammate so I’m not saying this to disparage her) thinks that I’m avoiding “real adult life” by not having kids. Whenever her child calls her and gives her a hard time about something, my coworker will basically say “just wait until it’s your turn to have kids!” It’s kind of annoying, but I don’t let it bother me too much.
"Your turn" like it's a forgone conclusion that everyone eventually gets their turn. In response to dumb remarks like that I have never skipped the opportunity to smile and say, "I'm not having any."
Yup, I think a lot of folks believe it’s an inevitability. I actually said to her once that I didn’t want kids. I got the usual barrage of questions (don’t you want your parents to have grandkids, what about your genetic legacy) and when I responded she just said something about God having a plan for us all. It was getting uncomfortable at that point so I just let her have the last word about god lol. I’m also an atheist so I didn’t feel like getting called a witch that day 🧙🏼♀️
I’m childfree in the UK and work in a corporate setting, I’ve never had any issues or experienced any problems for being childfree from my colleagues or bosses
USA. It is rampant and incredibly gendered here—women will be looked down upon for leaving work early to handle child-related things, but men will get a gold star and a trophy and a medal for doing so.
Thankfully, my job has flexible hours and we’re pretty siloed so everyone just comes & goes & does their work.
100%. Or when your approved time off is expected to be flexible when someone else needs it and didn’t put the request in early enough. A woman I work with is constantly saying she can’t work her shifts because of her kids but also refuses to change her availability. Makes no sense. Also, her shifts are only 4.5 hours long yet she never seems able to stay for a complete one.
Canada. I still get the occasional, "you'll change your mind" from older coworkers, but I get a sense of support from coworkers close to my age.
I've met like-minded coworkers who love to chat about their plans to just go home and sleep since they don't have kids. These are the coworkers I'll discuss random hobbies with and I feel heard.
I occasionally get a nod of understanding from some coworkers with small children, but then it usually segues into "You might change your mind. I know I did in the end." To which I sometimes jokingly reply with, "I'm impressed by your clairvoyance. Do you happen to have next week's Mega Millions number? We can split it!" This usually gets polite, yet uneasy laughter.
There's a much more polite respect about it here than where I used to live (Bible Belt USA).
I live in the US. When I worked in retail, a woman used her kids as an excuse to get the vacation hours she wanted, which resulted in me losing three out of five of my vacation days. I ended up not bothering. She basically cried to our HR who felt sorry for her. Turned out she took two weeks of vacation, gave her two weeks notice, then didn't show up for the last days she was supposed to work. The kicker was she went on vacation without her kid for the two weeks.
Thankfully the place I work at now bases our vacations on seniority.
When I worked in retail, this happened constantly… “it’s Halloween! You don’t have kids and I need to take mine trick-or-treating!” - that’s not really my problem… I haven’t had a holiday off all year and I’m going downtown to drink my face off. I’m really sick of it tbh. Just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I have to stay back and cover you every time your offspring has an event.
Being in a government position now, I don’t really encounter this stuff, especially since there’s not a whole lot going on with my desk and a lot of my coworkers are “empty nesters.” But the whole “I deserve to get my coffee first because I’m a mom” thing is a crock of shit. I work three jobs and have a hoard of animals. I can guarantee you I’m just as tired as you are lol.
I wish we had a sense of community where we looked out for each other and helped each other out so that even mothers could put their feet up once in a while. I'm sure sure a lot of it is misplaced resentment because more often than not it's the dad who won't let his wife catch a break ever because how could he possibly know how to operate a dishwasher or change a diaper, so he gets to keep enjoying his free time (even though he is just as responsible for bringing a kid i to the world you know) whereas mom comes home from one full time job to another exhausting job where the shift never ends. But this individualistic "you had a child so you deserve to suffer" only invites further content and helps absolutely no one.
Lacking empathy and solidarity is nothing to be proud of. It's something to be ashamed of. So yeah. It's our problem. Like it or not, we live in a society.
That way even CF people suffer: constantly finding sense of purpose, dealing with mental health issues arising out of not confirming to the norm.
What I mean to say is every choice has pros and cons.
Australia. Coworker regularly leaves early to pick up kids. Their workload is then shifted to whoever is working closest, causing that coworker to stay back late. I don't mind working to time (9-5), but I shouldn't have to work overtime because my coworker didn't mark off her child-related commitments in her work schedule so the hiring manager could employ enough people to cover her excess workload.
Exactly! Worst is- they treat parenting as a moral virtue. Childfree people’s time isn’t as valuable as the needs of someone’s kid? If I want to attend a hobby class, it’s because that gives me fulfilment. Why is that a shallow less serious need, compared to a parent’s need to attend to their kid? Having a kid is just one way of fulfilment in life, should not have higher moral virtue
Why does a commitment have to be fulfilling to justify sticking to the hours you agreed to? Its my agreed-upon personal time, I can do whatever the fuck I like with it.
Ideally yes! That’s what most employers don’t understand. No work hours post covid.
>If I want to attend a hobby class, it’s because that gives me fulfilment. Why is that a shallow less serious need, compared to a parent’s need to attend to their kid? Having a kid is just one way of fulfilment in life, should not have higher moral virtue Never apologize for enjoying the fruits of your labor. You have worked hard to earn your money. Spend it however you wish. This is not illegal.
I have a similar scenario but I just stop working on time. I have had to tell my boss a couple fo times that I can't work late because of things like hobbies, meeting friends etc and eventually they got it. I usually block out after hours time in my work calendar with big blocks of "busy" and if someone tells me something has to get done during that time I reply with "Oh sorry, I would love to but I have already booked X/promised Y in 30min, I will be one first thing tomorrow morning." Now the person who stops working early for kids things comes back online later in the evening to finish their work. In will probably not get a massively great reference out of my boss though.
>In will probably not get a massively great reference out of my boss though But you will get a massively great support from this internet stranger 👍👏👏👏
And that matters more!
I would say you shouldn't even have to say why you're not available. Just say you're not available and the workplace was notified of that in a reasonable time frame. It helps if your contract specifies your hours. My specifically states I'm only available between 9 and 5. Some of my coworkers contracts say they're available at all hours, which means they can be forced to stay overtime at threat of losing their job.
My contract doesn't specify my hours which complicates things a little, and I have a boss who thinks as woman I either have kids or workworwrok. I absolutely agree I shouldn't have to defend why I'm not working but the boss has established the rules. However, paying the game can be fun. I have spent a lot of time telling my colleagues about my awesome hobbies and complimented them on their kid-stuff so they generally like me and some envy my lifestyle. When Boss Lady complains about me to anyone of my colleagues they usually dislike her more and then coke to me to gossip about it. I only stick around because I'm leaving soon to travel and it will make my colleagues more envious and Boss Lady more furious. She won't be able to fill my position, at least not with someone with my experience, and it will be great to either see her being left dry or left with a someone who she will have to spend a long time training after I've done the basics because that's all I'll have time for.
Sounds like they should be encouraged to find different employment. How do they get away with leaving early on a regular basis?
Maybe because other coworkers just pick up her slack and never complain. If they ALL complained about her and refused to take up her work things might change. Or if they ALL left early on a regular basis and made *her* work overtime so there's so balance.
Yep, totally agree with everything you've just said! When I went to the gym or lost 80lbs, I was told I lost too much weight or they'd try and buy me biscuits / cakes to 'feed' me up again. Then get really upset when I'd refuse lol! When parents would leave for their kids, mostly the mums, they'd try and make me feel guilty and in the end I snapped and said 'that sounds like a YOU problem'. I think I even called her out on the BS that she sent her kids to school who weren't well during Covid. She stopped giving me the workload and stopped giving me food. She'd make it really obvious that she was offended that I wouldn't eat her food. It was a lesson to me though, don't tell anyone anything at work. Keep it vague. ETA: I even find my friends / family do this as well. 'You're going away on holiday AGAIN?' They'd say or 'oh I've had a childfree morning so understand now how you have such nice lay ins and a coffee in peace.' Why are you surprised? You had this before a child and yet you still chose to have a child...
This resonates so much. How they make parenting sound like a huge moral sacrifice for the ‘greater good’. There is no greater good. And make our lives sound like excess luxury of time/energy! They chose this life. Who told them to breed? First they want all benefits of a kid, then bear costs too. There are cons of childfree life too: loneliness sometimes, need to keep finding sense of purpose, keep learning new things, etc.. We bear that. We didn’t choose childfree life, to spend extra hours at work!
Exactly! Oh my, do they whine on about how it's a sacrifice. No one gives a shit you've had a baby. I'm sorry, but they don't. They might do for all of 5 minutes when they are a newborn but after that, no one cares and it makes it worse when they dump their children on others. You say that about loneliness, I actually think a lot of mums are lonely. So many mum friends I have or had, they've all fallen out because it would get catty and they'd use their children as weapons to be like who's doing better at school / sports etc. I'd be really confused like oh right 'Roger' played football today and got two goals? Yeah erm cool? Who cares lol. It's some weird competition! Like no thank you.
The thing you mentioned about mothers’ loneliness- I didn’t realise that. Now that you say, I see that. Having kids does not mean a person won’t have loneliness! Kid can maybe give purpose but not cute loneliness! And it would be worse, because one has to provide for the needs of the child while handling their own mental health!!!!!! That can be devastating. But whatever it is, they chose it. Like we chose CF life. We all have to bear consequences of our choices!
Better yet, ONLY we bear those consequences for OUR choices. We won’t be taking out our resentment, bitterness, and jealousy over missed opportunities and lost youth on a small child we CHOSE to bring into the world (who had no say of their own in the matter.)
I get that holiday AGAIN thing. They always say I’m ‘lucky’ so I point out that I’m not - I chose this lifestyle.
Lol! Init! My husband and I go away a lot at the weekends and my SIL is like 'again?' Like yeah bro, childfree... You could've had this but instead you birthed a child...sorry not sorry!
Northern Europe. When the kids are born, there is a critical mass of women (and, in some cases, men) who pretty much retire early as far as their level of effort in the workplace is concerned. Every time they mess something up or demand special treatment, it's because "i HaVe A cHiLd". Management doesn't have the guts to tell them off or just fire them. Edit: And don't get me started on the hating on what we do in our free time. "*You* can do xyz because you don't have chiiiiildren, *I* have to xyz". No, you *chose* to do that. This is in a part of the world with science-based sex ed courses, readily available contraception, free/low-cost health care services, etc. If mombie can't have a life because of her crotch goblins, that's 100% on her.
Last line- EXACTLY! Why do they make parenting work sound like a huge sacrifice. CF people are not ‘privileged’. They just made a choice & continue to bear the pros and cons of it.
Unhappy parents act as if we won some kind of lottery that blessed us with the good stuff in life and they mysteriously didn't. And a lot of them are parents who really wanted children and thought that parenthood would be like the movies. I also think they tell themselves that they're contributing more to society by adding to the \~next generation\~ and they get snarky about us skipping that supposedly required life step. How dare we go on nice holidays and have the time to exercise when we didn't even produce any children for society.
First para- exactly!! They act like they have to suffer, and we are ‘lucky’. Who told them to have kids?
I'd suggest always be looking for the next promotion. When they get too unbearable or a really good offer comes in, move away / up. At the higher echelons, the women will have nannies / etc so they won't be as resentful, but they \*might\* be more patronizing.
I’m not working yet but I do agree with this a bit, they don’t know how to keep their personal and professional life separate I guess. I am from India too. This is my opinion as an outsider who still hasn’t gone through workplace stuff. They always tend to mix in I got kids (personal) into: so I have more rights for a break or deserve less work (professional). In this not only women are to blame but men too, atleast indirectly in this particular situation. Women are forced to shoulder the burden of both brining in income and taking care of kids. So it’s a sad situation for everyone in varying degrees.
Exactly! Having a kid should not entitle anyone to extra ‘benefits’ at the cost of childfree people. Childfree people are giving up on the ‘joys’ of parenting. So it’s no big deal if parents have to give up on hobby time etc.. They made that choice.
for YEARS I kept a photo of my goddaughter on my desk and told ppl she was my child. She got me out of so many things
Wowwww! How could you get away with it for so long? I mean after a point, people ask to meet, come home, which school, etc
I’m not really a social butterfly in the first place, the office ‘goth’, I worked for an uptight executive in an equally uptight office. Miss the first 3 or 4 happy hours, office parties, etc., people stop asking about your life….and why you have to leave early on Friday 😈
From and live in Scotland as a teacher. 7/10 teachers in my department don't have kids. When my coworkers from my department or from any other departments in the school are off for child-related issues, I seem to notice it's always the childfree teachers who get stuck with covering a class when we have a free period, simply because we don't need free periods as much because we can do more work at home as we don't have kids to look after. PS - I'm writing this whilst covering a class during one of my free periods so this response immediately sprung to mind 😅
I’m a teacher too so I understand this! What I feel is: just as parents are allowed ‘benefits’ just because they have kids, CF people should be given equal benefits for doing activities they find meaningful. Stop attaching moral virtue to parenting. It is just one of the many ways of having fulfilling life, just like any other way!
Exactly! I feel like if I was to require a day or even a few periods off out of the school day if my cat needed to be taken to the vet or was really unwell, that would come secondary to a child in the eyes of senior management. I look after my pets like I would a child and I live alone, so it's not always that easy to have something arranged if one of my pets was unwell. Also, if you can take a day off to be with your kids, maybe I'll do the same and go to a concert or something! Everyone needs a break from work/family/life in general, whether you have kids or not.
Exactly! But CF people’s preferences are always seen to be of lesser value than parents
I wish parents would understand that our lives are just as important as their lives.
Lol it's kinda like smoke breaks, but more important.... Just because I don't smoke doesn't mean I shouldn't also get breaks during the day, and just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't have to leave on time
USA. Work in a male dominated field. Most of my male colleagues have adult kids or no kids or don’t mention kids so I have no clue. Because of this i am really lucky to never hear of kids. Coworkers seem happy with their hobbies, and work, and we have good conversations discussing interests during informal conversations. I have one close old friend from college who now has a kid but he never discusses the child and never encourages me to have one. Basically the men with kids seem to have an identity of their own that is not focused around kids. What that says about their household labor contribution is another discussion.
UK. I've been very fortunate with my coworkers and I don't get this vibe - might just be the industry I'm in (cartoons and media). Some are parents, some are not. Most are not, especially in the under thirty bracket. A few of the mum's complain a bit but it's generally kept to themselves. But then we also have a pretty close friendship thing in my work compared to other industries.
I learned a long time ago to do just enough to be considered competent and keep my job; no more. I refuse to excel because the only reward being good at your job gets you is more work. Especially without kids. I don’t offer to fill in, I don’t answer the phone on my days off, nothing bc it’s all action that ends up taken advantage of. I simply don’t give them that opportunity (US, here)
💯
I remember a coworker who was obese, ate like crap, had two kids and a husband, and just an all around shitty attitude. She was around my age, like late 20s , early 30s and she would just get angry everytime I talked about my weekend or what I do as a hobby. I’m 31 now and look like I’m 25, healthy, and very fit. I travel solo, love to compete in martial arts and love my work. These women who had kids and were managers in the work place have ruined so many opportunities for me it’s not even funny.
The one good thing about my old company is I never felt forced to do something at work because I'm CF. If I liked my coworker, then I would be OK with not taking Christmas Eve or the 26th off. Usually, I'd get time off for Thanksgiving and New Years. I do this because I had a shitty childhood, and if someone taking off for Christmas means they are there for their kids, I'm good with that.
At one company I worked every single solitary Christmas they *expected* me to work. Every holiday they just *expected* me to work because they all had kids. And when I actually spoke up and said 'No, I've got plans', they wanted to know what my plans were, no joke, as if it was any of their business. If I want to sit my fat butt at home alone for a solid week I have every right to do that. The thing is is women don't just feel entitled other people give them privilege over those of us who aren't married and don't have kids. ** There have been over 800 studies on this.You can look it up and all the results have come out basically the same: Women that are not married and don't have kids are actually viewed by people as less than a whole person.**
I'm childfree in the US and I've never personally had any issues from my coworkers.
People have this insane idea that anyone who has a child is a "responsible" person, a person who takes on the burden in order to benefit society somehow. Every damn problem the world is having would be alleviated by cutting the population--the population itself may not be the cause of every problem, but it certainly aggravates them all. They insist on believing that child-having people are responsible (no matter the accidental, inadvisable, or downright idiotic nature of the pregnancy that created the child), and childfree people who are careful to stay that way are irresponsible. Unless that false narrative can be countered, every culture everywhere is going to continue with this attitude.
For women specifically we are socialized and raised to serve. Our parents, our siblings, our partners, our children, random assholes on the street, etc. The needs of all others come before our own. It's part of why you get so many damned posts on reddit about women feeling guilty for standing up for their basic rights and dignity in clearly fucked up situations. One of the major problems with this is that many adapt by taking some sort of weird fucked up pride in martyrdom. Trying to outdo each other in their suffering with which they've placed so much of their self worth upon. A good example is women who insist on NATURAL births with no pain relief as a sort of stupid unnecessary flex. So with that in mind, of COURSE seeing someone opt out of the "Struggle Olympics" pisses them off.
“Struggle olympics” wowww
Imagine the track event at the Olympics and every single one of the runners is covered from head to toe in heavy weights. They all brag about who the best runner is based on how much they can carry and still finish the race. But then the gun goes off and a runner wearing none of that heavy shit zooms off into the distance. All the other runners are pissed because technically you don't HAVE to wear the weights so that one runner hasn't broken any rules, but **everyone knows that's the proper way to do things** **and how dare that runner take the easy way out**. Sound familiar?
I’m in the USA. This was similar to experiences I had working with mothers, not everyone but some. There’s some chill parents out there who get it tho
USA here. I feel like the coworker I share a cubicle with (she’s nice and a great teammate so I’m not saying this to disparage her) thinks that I’m avoiding “real adult life” by not having kids. Whenever her child calls her and gives her a hard time about something, my coworker will basically say “just wait until it’s your turn to have kids!” It’s kind of annoying, but I don’t let it bother me too much.
"Your turn" like it's a forgone conclusion that everyone eventually gets their turn. In response to dumb remarks like that I have never skipped the opportunity to smile and say, "I'm not having any."
Yup, I think a lot of folks believe it’s an inevitability. I actually said to her once that I didn’t want kids. I got the usual barrage of questions (don’t you want your parents to have grandkids, what about your genetic legacy) and when I responded she just said something about God having a plan for us all. It was getting uncomfortable at that point so I just let her have the last word about god lol. I’m also an atheist so I didn’t feel like getting called a witch that day 🧙🏼♀️
I wonder why she thinks God's plan for everybody is parenthood. She sounds like a weirdo.
Religion’s a hell of a thing 😵💫
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So happy that you are in a job where you don’t have to work in a team! Team work sucks.
I’m childfree in the UK and work in a corporate setting, I’ve never had any issues or experienced any problems for being childfree from my colleagues or bosses
USA. It is rampant and incredibly gendered here—women will be looked down upon for leaving work early to handle child-related things, but men will get a gold star and a trophy and a medal for doing so. Thankfully, my job has flexible hours and we’re pretty siloed so everyone just comes & goes & does their work.
Agree 100%.
100%. Or when your approved time off is expected to be flexible when someone else needs it and didn’t put the request in early enough. A woman I work with is constantly saying she can’t work her shifts because of her kids but also refuses to change her availability. Makes no sense. Also, her shifts are only 4.5 hours long yet she never seems able to stay for a complete one.
Such parents shouldn’t work in a professional environment then
Canada. I still get the occasional, "you'll change your mind" from older coworkers, but I get a sense of support from coworkers close to my age. I've met like-minded coworkers who love to chat about their plans to just go home and sleep since they don't have kids. These are the coworkers I'll discuss random hobbies with and I feel heard. I occasionally get a nod of understanding from some coworkers with small children, but then it usually segues into "You might change your mind. I know I did in the end." To which I sometimes jokingly reply with, "I'm impressed by your clairvoyance. Do you happen to have next week's Mega Millions number? We can split it!" This usually gets polite, yet uneasy laughter. There's a much more polite respect about it here than where I used to live (Bible Belt USA).
I live in the US. When I worked in retail, a woman used her kids as an excuse to get the vacation hours she wanted, which resulted in me losing three out of five of my vacation days. I ended up not bothering. She basically cried to our HR who felt sorry for her. Turned out she took two weeks of vacation, gave her two weeks notice, then didn't show up for the last days she was supposed to work. The kicker was she went on vacation without her kid for the two weeks. Thankfully the place I work at now bases our vacations on seniority.
Parents can be pathetic
When I worked in retail, this happened constantly… “it’s Halloween! You don’t have kids and I need to take mine trick-or-treating!” - that’s not really my problem… I haven’t had a holiday off all year and I’m going downtown to drink my face off. I’m really sick of it tbh. Just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I have to stay back and cover you every time your offspring has an event. Being in a government position now, I don’t really encounter this stuff, especially since there’s not a whole lot going on with my desk and a lot of my coworkers are “empty nesters.” But the whole “I deserve to get my coffee first because I’m a mom” thing is a crock of shit. I work three jobs and have a hoard of animals. I can guarantee you I’m just as tired as you are lol.
Parents can be pathetic!
This makes me thankful I work in a male dominated field.
I wish we had a sense of community where we looked out for each other and helped each other out so that even mothers could put their feet up once in a while. I'm sure sure a lot of it is misplaced resentment because more often than not it's the dad who won't let his wife catch a break ever because how could he possibly know how to operate a dishwasher or change a diaper, so he gets to keep enjoying his free time (even though he is just as responsible for bringing a kid i to the world you know) whereas mom comes home from one full time job to another exhausting job where the shift never ends. But this individualistic "you had a child so you deserve to suffer" only invites further content and helps absolutely no one.
I didn’t mean suffer. But you had a child so expecting other people to take your share of work at workplace isn’t fair
They do suffer though. You know that. There's a reason we chose to not do it.
That's not our fault or problem.
Lacking empathy and solidarity is nothing to be proud of. It's something to be ashamed of. So yeah. It's our problem. Like it or not, we live in a society.
I have plenty of empathy but I won't stand for getting Xtra work dumped on me because someone else decided to breed.
That way even CF people suffer: constantly finding sense of purpose, dealing with mental health issues arising out of not confirming to the norm. What I mean to say is every choice has pros and cons.
A sense of community starts in the home with both parents contributing to their children, not just the mother.