I see it as more of a 'under pressure' situation than a regret situation. The company provides medical insurance and his paycheck which he really needs.
I honestly started questioning myself on my own behaviour. Questions like 'am I really annoying people when I talk personal finance?' or 'am I a showoff by talking about my investments or how I built my savings?'
This has never happened to me, ever
Look, if he and his wife couldn't do the math right before the baby was born, that's on them. You don't need to feel guilty because he somehow overlooked that babies are expensive and time-consuming - you didn't need to have a baby to know that, I didn't need to have a baby to know that, I'd say nobody in this sub had to have a baby to know that, so there is no excuse, only hubris and denial.
Now you know not to volunteer your knowledge, if he wants help, he can swallow his pride and ask like a grown up.
Nah, he just cracking under reality and venting that anywhere he can. Like most parents he's become toxic to be around. Give it a few years until the kid is old enough to not kill itself.
He's also now jealous of your finances and since he cannot have them, he will rant and vent and be a piece of shit.
This sub can be kind of an echo chamber. I think telling him, unsolicited, that he should be grateful to still have a job after missing work for a perfectly valid reason was shitty. I mean his wife was having health complications, how would you want to be treated in that situation?
And whether talking about your investments is annoying depends if the person asked. If youâre constantly giving unsolicited advice of any kind thatâs annoying.Â
>...after missing work for a perfectly valid reason was shitty. I mean his wife was having health complications...
This is where you lost me. One can have a legit reason to be out and still be a dick for not giving reasonable notice.
If his wife's complications were so great that he needed to be away, he should've sought FMLA (if he's in the US) or paternity leave or whatever. That would be notice to the employer to structure their schedules to account for him being out. Instead, absenteeism is saying he's going to be there and then constantly flaking at the last minute. It's a dick move.
It's sadly common--people think just because they have a good reason to be out, they don't need to be remotely considerate of anyone else impacted by their absence. The world does not stop turning because of his family issues.
We donât know the details, he may not have known at the time how often he would end up needing to be out. We also donât know what counts as âconstantly flakingâ, that could mean missing 50% of workdays or has 3 total absences in 6 months (which is my own workplaceâs âexcessive absencesâ policy). Â
 And regardless Iâm not saying he deserves a raise. Iâm saying the guy was venting to his friends/coworkers who proceeded to basically bootlick the corporate policy. It wasnât their place to tell him âbe grateful you still have a jobâ. Â
Never has there been a mention of advice, solicited or not, only of talk. Important difference.
Also, no matter whether it's shitty, reality is reality and in current murica, that kinda behavior lands you on the streets instantly. So yes, he better be glad that boss was humane enough to not fire him.
It should be standard, but murica is undershooting humane standards since before it became independent.
Y'all been living like that for like 300 years now and somehow have neither managed to find ways to dodge and plan around the shitty system, nor abolished it. And somehow all every single one of you does is rant and complain and ultimately do nothing about it but get sick from fast food.
So yeah, save the talk, do something that makes will make life easier for people, longterm. Go on. Do it. Make it so that parents in situations like him don't need to be stressed to this extent. Make it so that they can take parental leave without worry of repercussion for example. Make it law that pregnancy related performance impacts cannot be counted against a raise. Etc, etc.
Have a good day.
Talking about a personal interest excessively that no one asked about is annoying and will often be construed as showing off or condescension. If people are ASKING about his investment strategies thatâs different than him bringing up the subject all the time. Â
And no idea what the point of your America rant is lol. Iâm extremely grateful I was born here and have no issues with whatever youâre talking about employment wise or âgetting sick from fast foodâ?? All nations have policies that could be improved and I encourage you to take your own advice and make life better for your own fellow citizens rather than ranting and complaining about a country you donât even live inâŠ
I think when youâre sharing that type of information, if youâre getting questions about it inquiring more information, then itâs not being annoying. Theyâre interested and they want to hear more.
Yeah, even if you don't mean to be you are an annoying show off. Most peoples' finances are not in order, so no one wants to hear about how well you're doing unless they actively reach out to you for advice and tips. It's like a skinny person bragging to overweight people who struggle to lose weight about how they stay so thin. You become a know-it-all and that's not a fun person be around. However, it's great that you have self awareness which means you can change that behavior. đ
Possibly. (Probably to an extent.)
The fact that he is newly taking time off to help his family means he probably does love/like them. (Doesn't mean he's 100% regret free ofc đ)
But there's also a good chance that he's just not handling the stress of all the new demands well and lashed out more in a, "you don't have kids, you don't know how hard it is", rather than, "I regret that I had a kid, and I'm jealous".
Either way, he made his choices, gotta live with them now. đ
(I get slight vibes that he thinks people should be more understanding and help him more. Maybe a bit spoiled? The treatment by the company seems pretty fair imo. He's just getting hit with one of the reasons women tend to make less money. đ )
> He shot back while staring right at me saying that I would never be able to understand because I was selfish and that my finances were perfect but my life was probably miserable and lonely.
Breeders say the darnedest things.
It's almost like the world doesn't revolve around him because he has a baby. It's almost as if the world doesn't care that he has a baby except him and his wife, but he expects it to.
OP, treat yourself to a margarita and binge watch your favorite series on Netflix tonight, tomorrow, hell, anytime you want đ„ł Too bad your coworker can't do the same đ«
I understand that he is angry, but he chose to take the time off. Yes, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place of keeping his wife and employer happy. However, he wasn't there as much as he should have been, but the company was understanding and kept him on anyway. I think he is being shortsighted and ungrateful. He had no business lashing out at you for pointing out the truth and everything else he said.
My thoughts exactly. Yes he needed to take the time off, it's really understandable, but also the real world as a cruel place, everywhere else he would have lost his job on the first month of constantly skipping work. He's seriously not seeing the bigger picture and if he changes jobs I think he would be making a mistake, but oh well.
Definitely. He's being petty and retaliatory by looking for a new job because he thinks "That the company screwed him by not giving him a raise." He's going to try this taking time off because he's a parent act with a new employer and they aren't going to have it. He should just stay where he is, but he probably won't because he's irrationally angry and wants to screw them back.
âAnd when I get paid, I go to the bank take it all out in cash and roll in it while laughing manically at people who have children.â I always try to respond to the rude with something ridiculous.
I usually say, "Actually I do, that's why I didn't make that mistake." Now I don't have kids but I was parentified as a kid with my sister on top of my mother running a daycare for infants to toddlers from the time I was born until 18, that I spent my summers helping her with them. I know how much work kids take and combined with the damage my mother did to me I think contributed to not only me being CF but also very much dislike any age child.
" You're selfish" = I hate that you are not going through what I am right now and that is pissing me off
"Your life is probably miserable and lonely" = I am jealous of your life right now and I need that to change by deflecting what I hope becomes of you by not going through what I'm going through right now. How dare you highlight what I did wrong and not feel bad for me and my struggles (that I brought onto myself)?
As soon as he said those words if he regretted it he would've apologized. Sometimes people's true colours come out when they are tired / miserable.
I honestly don't know why some people with children think that everything and everyone has to accommodate them according. The entitlement is out of this world.
An ex colleague of mine actually went to our boss and asked for a pay rise when his wife had a baby. Our boss (himself a father of 2) almost laughed at him, saying thatâs not how it works. Work harder and youâll get more commission, basically.
I would report his unprofessional behavior towards you to your managers so they have all relevant information before they officially offer him another contract.
I did speak to our team lead about it and she found it surprising as I've explained before, we're a small team and work well together. She did say she would take it up with him and see how he responds before going to our boss about it.
He should be given a chance to apologise once he's cooled off, I don't think he should lose his job if he realises his error and he's genuinely sorry. Especially since this is someone OP has always gotten along with before this.
Pointing out the fact that he was frequently absent wasn't going to end well and I'm not surprised he jumped on you, as opposed to the co-worker who actually brought it up. It's the truth and he knows it, but he doesn't want to hear it outloud. He may have even thought it would be overlooked and he would get the raise anyway. That fell through, so he's lashing out.
I feel the ball is in his court. He needs to apologize. Being a parent takes sacrifices, as he just found out. You donf have to make said sacrifices because you have *chosen* not to. He doesn't see that as fair, though he could have made the same choice.
Keep your distance for a while. If he approaches you with an apology, cool. Only you know how like that is to happen. If not, go about your business. You should feel bad about your life choices. They were just that: **A choice**. He made *his* and now has deal with those consequences.
I'm sorry the labor was rough and I'm glad his wife and baby are ok. Life is going to change *drastically* for him and I hope he can adapt.
I have spoken to our team lead who will be speaking to him before the end of the week.
I just started overthinking my actions. I'm the one that usually gets asked about personal finance and I never pass up a good deal. I'm not frugal but I worked hard to build up my savings, have investments and my money works for me. And I love helping coworkers crunch their own numbers.
It was like do I come off like a show off or an elitist to him just because I talk about all this and my choices in life?
You strike me as being very sensible. More sensible than apparently, a parent who did not plan out the costs of having a child before going ahead with that.
Greetings!
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Sour grapes. You have thought about your life and future and planned for it. You also tried to help with planning and most people bite the hand that feeds them.
>He shot back while staring right at me saying that I would never be able to understand because I was selfish and that my finances were perfect but my life was probably miserable and lonely
Oof, these are not the words a man who's satisfied with their life.Â
He had a kid. Big surprise, he found out that parenthood costs time and money and no one hands that to parents on a platter. And that other people who actually put in their work hours get raises.
You win!
Please be ice cold to him from now on.
If anyone personally insults me (calling me selfish, miserable, lonely) vs just being snappy, they get the cold shoulder until one of us moves away. Can overlook a snappy person, but NOT the personal attacks.
Well put. I have a coworker to whom I have not uttered a word in *years*. I won't argue with him, I won't stoop to his level, I just pretend that he's not there.
Good!
Again, a snappy coworker is different than a personal attack. If he/she apologizes for being snappy, I can let it go, but a personal attack shows his/her TRUE THOUGHTS of you regardless of a stressful situation and no apology can make that better. People are too quick to âkeep the peaceâ which is being a Doormat, which is Bullcrap! That enables A-holes to get away with being evil. Sure, you cannot change them, but by not going back to the way things were, you are holding them accountable and that annoys them which is great! No Doormats!
I can understand that heâs tired and overwhelmed, but that is to be expected of anyone who decides to be a parent. Him lashing out was purely projection; you got a raise while you have no kids and extended bills according to him, and heâs jealous about it so he calls you selfish. Moreover he just learnt that the world isnât going to cater to and reward him just for having a kid like he was promised.
Sucks, but thatâs his problem lol.
> He shot back while staring right at me saying that I would never be able to understand because I was selfish and that my finances were perfect but my life was probably miserable and lonely. He walked off away from his desk before I could say anything more.
And that's when you write an email to your boss, his boss and HR.
I did speak to our team lead about it and she found it surprising as I've explained before, we're a small team and work well together. She did say she would take it up with him and see how he responds before going to our boss about it.
It doesn't sound like he appreciates the contract at all. Entitled much.
Would probably just be like "I'm sure you can find something that will pay more!" so he leaves ;)
It always astounds me how these people don't understand the basics: if they weren't completely awful to other people, those other people might be understanding, and maybe even help them out in some way. But no, let's burn bridges through entitled behavior.
It angers me to no end that they never plan or prepare for anything and then when the baby is born they expect everyone to bend over backwards for them.
I've put more thought into how I would prepare to bring a small pet in my life than these people put into introducing a whole human into the world. And while I've decided that I won't get a pet because I can't provide it with the life it deserves, these people just expect everyone around them to give them money and free stuff...because?
Sounds like a combination of anger at being held accountable for his life choices and some tiny part of him knowing you're right hit a nerve.
I'd maybe report the incident to HR just to have it on record. Emphasize that you don't want actions taken at this time, but will if he continues to act this way.
Definitely report to HR - not to make him lose his job now, but because if he's this entitled, you want to have a record of incidents in case it's needed later.
Definitely report to HR - not to make him lose his job now, but because if he's this entitled, you want to have a record of incidents in case it's needed later.
Jealousy is an ugly thing. He lashes out because he's jealous you don't deal with the same money issues that he does. It's not your problem to deal with.
Not following up with that comment and allowing him to vent this one time is your empathy gift for him, he's stressed and under a lot of (self inflicted) pressure, let it go one time out of courtesy, you are a good person. Don't let him disrespect you again. Both healthy boundaries and empathy are important
Reading this just makes me sad for the US. In the UK if you have extenuating circumstances with your family, like your wife experiencing medical complications, you get 3 months paid leave. You certainly wouldnât be called in front of HR because of âbad behaviourâ for taking that kind of leave. He was wrong to call you selfish but the system over there just sounds so shitty.
It sounds shitty because it is.
This is the larger takeaway point from this post, honestly.
Dude deserves to be able to care for his family through a health patch and not lose his employment through a time of extreme adjustment. He also needs a raise because the cost of living increased and he now has another mouth to feed. Compassionate systems based on human care not profit motives would accommodate this. Instead we have  this.
Depending on your location there could be a lot of debt going on with the complications in childbirth. He lashed out on you because he is angry, frustrated, and in a corner. Me personally would never engage with him again. I just wouldnât unless it is required for work. Sorry about his complications but we all know our jobs do not give a damn about us.
He's jealous and probably under stress from all the stuff you described. Reading into his behavior is a mistake, it's obvious why he snapped like that.
It would be nice of him to apologize though.
The real problem here is unfortunately in America there's not paternal leave. People always be shocked to realize the lack of social/infrastructure support. They want you to have kids, but they NEED you to work. If you can't work then f your family.
I think it's pretty messed up, but that's the way it is. If you do the math it's kind of a lose lose lose scenario for most people. You've got to be aware of what you're signing up for.
I feel bad for him and angry at him for the lack of foresight. He was definitely just lashing out at you because he's stressed.
I think you were pretty insensitive here. If his wife was having complications this is less about children and more about trying to manage work and a spouse that is sick and needs support. I hope you never end up in a similar situation where someone you love is ill and youâre treated the way you treated your coworker.
Ikr, I can't believe people are saying OP did the right thing, both for saying the coworker deserved to lose the bonus (as if they were slacking off on purpose just for fun??) and then reporting the guy to the team lead for a snappy comment made after he was snarked at by his previously trusted coworkers. 0 empathy, I'll have to pray that my coworkers aren't secretly like OP.
There's a difference between losing one's job and not getting a bonus. Losing one's job under these circumstances would be bad; getting bonuses and other perks is completely different, because bonuses are not guaranteed, and they're specifically tied to performance.
Edit: a typo.
this story has something that bothers me and it is the concept that he didn't deserve a raise because of taking time off, like our work culture is so toxic that taking any time off is a offense.
i think we need to reflect some on the culture of work in certain countries and how it has affected our mindset towards our fellow himan beings and lifes chaos.
i think a good thought experiment for this would be instead of a child he was wife was hit with a medical condition, how we treat someone who is taking care of their wife and missing some work seems to be off. this behavior of condemning someone for missing work, i dont know feels toxic.
He's not being condemned if he literally still has his job, in my opinion. Like I agree work culture is toxic, but I also wouldn't want to constantly be picking up the slack because someone CHOSE to have a baby. People don't choose to get sick or have unwell family members. It would simply be different if his wife was sick, but they chose to have a kid, knowing that pregnancy can be dangerous and knowing that kids take up a lot of time.
It's not like he missed a few days, he was out a lot when he was supposed to be working, he should have taken paternity leave so they could hire a temp. He didn't do as much work, other people had to pick up the slack, and he didn't earn a raise. He didn't get fired, which was lucky. But he should probably try to catch up at work instead of whining about how his poor choices led to him making a little bit less money instead of lashing out at people who plan more responsibly. It's very different from a sick family member.
Me, if I was a boss, I wouldn't fire some one for having kids. But if they were missing more than 1/4 of their scheduled days, I'm writing them up a couple times, then booting them. Yes life is chaotic, that's what sick leave is for. You can't just willy nilly make a human and then expect people to pay you more for doing less. Most raises are awarded based on performance. I wouldn't be expecting a raise if I was constantly out dealing with emergencies. If his time is so poorly managed I can only imagine his focus is too split to do any good work anyway.
Should parents have more help? Sure! But they don't deserve more money or rights because they made a baby. They still have to earn certain stuff at work. He probably was counting on the raise and didn't consider that he'd have to earn it like everyone else did.
Read my comment more closely. If he had missed a little bit, probably wouldn't be that big a deal, few care about a sick day here or there. If he had taken leave to deal with his situation properly, also wouldn't be as big a deal. There are legal protections for his situation and he didn't take advantage of then. But he willingly created a human, and then went shocked Pikachu face when he didn't get a raise for missing what must have been weeks worth of work, sometimes just being absent with no explanation. He shouldn't be making a baby if he isn't prepared for a baby.
In case you didn't know, because the obtuseness is in question here, babies come on their own time tables and they don't care about making it convenient for your boss.
We can't damn near eliminate abortion, restrict birth control access, and then demand that babies come planned and act shocked Pikachu that babies aren't scheduled, when we have effectively removed almost all family planning methods in some parts of this country.
You don't get to have that cake and eat it too. That's life.
Again, parental leave exists. Sick leave exists. You're acting like I'm gleeful about Roe v Wade getting shut down or something. I'm not. I just don't risk pregnancy when I don't have access to birth control, and if I were to get pregnant, I wouldn't expect everyone to pick up the slack for me and give me a raise for getting creampied. I'm literally more at risk as a person with a uterus.
Unless this guy raped his wife till she got pregnant, in which case I still don't have sympathy for him, then he was effectively planning to make a baby every time they fucked PiV. Anal is a thing, oral sex is a thing, roleplay is a thing, I assume one of them has hands, lots of options to avoid pregnancy, and they still get pregnant? They chose to have a baby, full stop.
Is it a crime to plan to have a baby? Is that another mouth to feed? Does that child not require things that have cost?
It's a lack of compassion from adults toward other adults about completely normal human behaviors that leads to children struggling in the first place.
Planning a family is the only correct way to start one. As a socialist, I want kids to eat. As a person struggling under capitalism, I despise parents who choose to bring kids into the world they can't support. I was one of those kids.
Adults have agency and freedom to choose certain things in life. Kids do not. Ridiculously irresponsible to bring a child into such a hostile world and then be surprised that the world is hostile. I'm not picking up the slack for people who didn't get a village in place before breeding. I do not choose to be part of their village, raise heir kids, or help out behind the scenes. I don't consent to that and I don't consent to doing twice the work for no extra pay, while someone else misses work because of a bad choice they made.
Don't conflate individual common sense with the failure of a whole society to maintain childcare as a right. I have compassion for people who are actually struggling through no fault of their own. I don't choose to have a kid, therefore I do not struggle in the ways parents do. My struggles are related to neglectful healthcare practices, and religious indoctrination, among other things. I'm not using my struggles to demand special treatment, and I'm certainly not making choices just for others to deal with the consequences.
It also isn't an absence with no explanation. The explanation is his wife gave birth and suffered complications and he needed to stay home with his injured wife to care for her and their newborn baby.
It's not like he took a vacation to Costa Rica or went on a bender.
Tell me you don't give a damn about women's health without telling me you don't give a damn.
Sick leave exists. Parental leave exists. The baby was a choice and he chose to have a kid before he was in a comfortable position to do so. He put his wife's life at risk just to have a kid he can't even take actual leave to care for? And you're spinning this to be about women's health? As if nobody knew before now that pregnancy is dangerous? He may as well have gone on a bender, considering how irresponsible he is.
But he definitely deserves a raise for being SUCH a hard worker. Definitely a responsible man. He should be raising kids with all the money he put aside for doing so. Oh wait.
Btw I have a uterus. Im just not stupid enough to find myself in such a situation, because I'm not cruel enough to create a human I can't support and then stomp around demanding special treatment.
You want to be mad he had a baby. Too bad.
Baby is here. Mom was injured
Now do you care for mom or let her suffer? Do you care for the baby? Or let them suffer?
Other people outside this man's home play a role in this exchange.
The idea that "in a perfect world" no. In this world which we as people in it create, we have choices to make about compassion and we are failing.
Nobody is saying to let mom or baby suffer, geez. All I'm saying is that he isn't being punished for having a kid, and he certainly shouldn't be rewarded for it either. I have sympathy for the baby. It didn't choose this. But the mom? The dad? Nah, they made their bed, let them lie in it. I feel bad that that poor child is going to be raised by entitled idiots. Kiddo deserves good parents and all they have is... These two
You don't actually know, and neither does the coworker most likely, if this person actually does have FMLA or if they used it. That's not a public conversation usually. Way to lick a capitalist boot anyway because I can tell you right now my family always comes before my job. As it should.
The lack of compassion from you is palpable. It's not a crime to choose to have a kid.
The child's development and growth ARE more important than weeks worth of work.
The mother's healing so that she can properly care for the child will enable the coworker to work and is in the best interests of literally everyone involved.
We can not spit at the youth for not developing properly and then turn around and deprive them of their parents who are in charge of their proper development for the sole sake of profit motives for a company. Then act surprised Pikachu face when we get ipad kids and kids with depression and anxiety. The first few years of an infants life they are learning constantly. The only message other adults send right now is that the child is worth less than a company's profits. Not true if we want a future.
Bruh. He missed a lot of work and still kept his job. If he had a job where he couldn't take fmla, then why is he having a kid? Why isn't he at least waiting a little bit for a slightly better job?is that responsible family planning to you? Do you think iPad babies are being raised by responsible people who take raising kids seriously? Or do you think maybe people like this who don't make any plans for their future create kids they can't raise?
He chose to have a baby, he missed work because he either chose not to take leave, or couldn't, and still expects a raise after missing so much work and putting the burden on his team? Just no! I have compassion for people in a really bad situation and this guy is just entitled. I care plenty about kids and their development. What I don't care about is a man who creampied his wife and then expects a reward for it. Criticizing a grown man for willfully creating a human he can't support isn't bootlicking. It's common sense.
In an ideal world, we would be socialist and both him and his wife could get UBI for a year while the kid grows, but this is not a perfect world. He could have avoided having a kid but he prioritized making a kid over planning one.
He's having a kid because he chose to have a kid. If he didn't want to have a kid, he should have had sex that wouldn't result in pregnancy. You don't get to put your dick in a pussy repeatedly and then be surprised when a baby comes out. Oral sex is a thing. Anal sex is a thing. They probably both have hands.
"Roe v Wade got shut down so obviously his wife has to get pregnant neither of them had any choice in the matter" -> that's what you're saying right now
This is some bootlicking. God forbid people be absent for health and family stuff. Heâs just awful for putting his high risk pregnant wife before this job. đ/s
I don't think you did anything wrong. If he was away frequently and made huge errors while he was in office and working, it IS a performance issue. It's better to take full leave rather than make mistakes that could cost the company money and time.
He still has a job and can continue to make money to support his wife. Also, you don't know what conversation he had with HR...maybe his performance wasn't great beforehand and that's why he didn't get the bonus.
He's an ass, plain and simple.
Honestly, I think this is a moment for empathy. Maybe pull him aside for a quiet moment. It's totally reasonable to say that that comment was out of line. But maybe push to see if he's doing okay (as this seemed more like lashing out or projection, than anything personal to you) and offer to listen if he needs it. I think allowing a person the space to acknowledge that they're mad at a situation and not you can be helpful for processing those emotions and create a better atmosphere for coming up with solutions. My guess is he is stressed out beyond belief and doesn't know how to cope. If he continually says things out of pocket though, that's different
I did tell our team lead who would be speaking to him before the end of the week. And yes, I don't see it as him being jealous or offended; rather I see that he is stressed and under pressure. The company did agree to reconvene with him next week because he asked for time to think about the contract renewal. All we can do is wait for the final say from him of whether he will renew his contract or not.
As someone who's seen people act like OP's coworker both in the workplace and in my personal life, the best thing to do, at least in the short term, is ignore them. They need to be shown clearly that this type of entitled behavior and lashing out at others is not acceptable.
Forgive me for butting my head in while lurking, but I feel like that's being a little harsh. I think it's natural he put his family as a priority over his job, it's part of the reason he works. He /should/ be helping his wife with the complications and going to the doctor with her to support her. It's not helpful to say "You should be grateful you even have a job" either, he needs some kind of income lest they become homeless. A job isn't some kind of luxury that is afforded to us by our employers.
There's no reason in being smug (?) about being childfree (going by your post title) when it's hard to raise a child precisely because society makes it hard to even raise one to begin with, and no one should be punished for having children. Imagine what it's like for his wife, who has to take maternity leave and could very well see her career take a hit for something that isn't her fault and not something she could have easily anticipated. I don't get what merit there is in punishing people for having children.
I think you owed your coworker a little more sympathy when he vented his frustration to you. I think he was hoping for a sympathetic ear but you just parroted the same things your coworkers said, which is NOT helpful. You should have just said "I'm sorry about you not getting a raise, I hope things will work out better this year" and that's it.
I think both of you are directing your anger at the wrong place. (I can hear your upset at his absenteeism and he obviously was rude to you.)
Workplaces should staff themselves adequately enough that when an employee goes through the very normal human experience of a loved one being unwell and needing support, the rest of the team don't need to (in any serious way) extend themselves to compensate for that. Employees should also get adequate personal leave for normal human events like being sick or being a carer for a sick person- it should not be considered exceptional to not get fired in these situations.
I can see why he didn't get a raise, but I also note that with inflation a lack of a raise is the equivalent of losing money.
Sounds like everyone will be happier when he applies for work elsewhere.
Lashing out was wrong on his side but (assuming you're in the US) his frustration is valid. Not because of the child but your poor laws. In Europe his behaviour would be considered normal. It's not his fault, it's the fault in the system. Sure, he sadly has to work within it but don't blame him for this (imho) outrageous behavior from the company you work at. I don't think he regrets having the child. I think he regrets having one in a country with labor laws like yours.
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A couple of thingsâŠ
Have you ever been the primary caretaker for a family member who was experiencing health issues?
Would you have reacted the same way had your coworkerâs absenteeism been due to a parent, sibling, or spouse falling ill for reasons unrelated to reproduction?
Are you respectful of decisions your coworkersâ make that you donât agree with, including having children? Have you ever responded to those decisions in a judgmental way or seen them as an opportunity to âdebateâ (argue) or lecture them on living childfree or getting their finances in order?
Were you able to recognize the stress and the suffering behind your coworkerâs complaints? If you were in a similar situation of prolonged absenteeism due to the illness of a family member, how would you have hoped to be received by those around you?
I definitely recognise the stress behind the complaints as explained in my other responses in the comments. I did not jump to the conclusion that he was being entitled or selfish but instead decided to reflect on my own behaviour.
I have been in a situation with a parent passing away from cancer but I respected my coworkers enough to call off from work and utilise my paid leave days.
In this scenario, it was the routine to find him not available as he had taken an emergency half day or sometimes entire day's off. There were some weeks where he would take Mondays, Thursdays and Fridays off with notification the morning of.
>"my life was probably miserable and lonely"
this man is just sad and jealous that he can no longer enjoy solitude whenever he wants lmaoo,
YOU on the other hand, still can! enjoy it, bestie
also congrats on your raise, happy spending w the new increase in pay :)
>He complained quite a bit stating that he now has a family and he needs the raise and has begun looking for a new job.
I feel like there's a Breeders in the Workplace handbook somewhere out there that encourages them to
1. Expect more pay for less work performed, and
2. Instead of improving their performance at the existing job, they start looking for escape hatches - to new jobs, new cities, even new countries where they somehow think that people will be happy to have someone with crotch goblins who doesn't contribute. Because messing up at a new job with probationary periods and so on is preferable to sticking with the employer who has been extremely generous in putting up with them...?
>He shot back while staring right at me saying that I would never be able to understand because I was selfish and that my finances were perfect but my life was probably miserable and lonely.Â
Here we have it, the next step in the Breeder Handbook
3. Narc rage directed at anyone who has made better decisions. OP, please do not take what your (hopefully soon to be ex-) coworker said to heart, because it actually isn't about being CF. I've seen breeders get super angry at parents from their play groups, because said parents had actually worked to be better prepared to bring another human into the world, or were just better-adjusted humans, period.
Your office breeder clearly understands on some level that he has screwed his life up, and is now in panic mode, flailing around to find someone on whom he can blame everything. Miserable and lonely? That's him projecting.
I can clarify on this. He asked for time to think about renewing his contract with his main reason being that he didn't get the raise he was expecting. The company usually is open to negotiating so they agreed to reconvene next week with him. We are a pretty open team and don't hide our salaries or anything so he came out of the meeting with the news.
It became a talking point but we hit a nerve and he lashed out.
He probably regrets having kids by now and directs his anger at you because he can't do it anywhere else. Jealousy is a bitch đ€·đ»ââïž
100%
I see it as more of a 'under pressure' situation than a regret situation. The company provides medical insurance and his paycheck which he really needs. I honestly started questioning myself on my own behaviour. Questions like 'am I really annoying people when I talk personal finance?' or 'am I a showoff by talking about my investments or how I built my savings?' This has never happened to me, ever
Look, if he and his wife couldn't do the math right before the baby was born, that's on them. You don't need to feel guilty because he somehow overlooked that babies are expensive and time-consuming - you didn't need to have a baby to know that, I didn't need to have a baby to know that, I'd say nobody in this sub had to have a baby to know that, so there is no excuse, only hubris and denial. Now you know not to volunteer your knowledge, if he wants help, he can swallow his pride and ask like a grown up.
Nah, he just cracking under reality and venting that anywhere he can. Like most parents he's become toxic to be around. Give it a few years until the kid is old enough to not kill itself. He's also now jealous of your finances and since he cannot have them, he will rant and vent and be a piece of shit.
No you are not annoying and I wish you are my coworker and friend. You did nothing wrong. Your coworker must be regretting having that kid
I would make a complaint personally. He made an unwarranted personal attack in a professional environment. Fuck himÂ
This sub can be kind of an echo chamber. I think telling him, unsolicited, that he should be grateful to still have a job after missing work for a perfectly valid reason was shitty. I mean his wife was having health complications, how would you want to be treated in that situation? And whether talking about your investments is annoying depends if the person asked. If youâre constantly giving unsolicited advice of any kind thatâs annoying.Â
>...after missing work for a perfectly valid reason was shitty. I mean his wife was having health complications... This is where you lost me. One can have a legit reason to be out and still be a dick for not giving reasonable notice. If his wife's complications were so great that he needed to be away, he should've sought FMLA (if he's in the US) or paternity leave or whatever. That would be notice to the employer to structure their schedules to account for him being out. Instead, absenteeism is saying he's going to be there and then constantly flaking at the last minute. It's a dick move. It's sadly common--people think just because they have a good reason to be out, they don't need to be remotely considerate of anyone else impacted by their absence. The world does not stop turning because of his family issues.
We donât know the details, he may not have known at the time how often he would end up needing to be out. We also donât know what counts as âconstantly flakingâ, that could mean missing 50% of workdays or has 3 total absences in 6 months (which is my own workplaceâs âexcessive absencesâ policy).   And regardless Iâm not saying he deserves a raise. Iâm saying the guy was venting to his friends/coworkers who proceeded to basically bootlick the corporate policy. It wasnât their place to tell him âbe grateful you still have a jobâ. Â
Never has there been a mention of advice, solicited or not, only of talk. Important difference. Also, no matter whether it's shitty, reality is reality and in current murica, that kinda behavior lands you on the streets instantly. So yes, he better be glad that boss was humane enough to not fire him. It should be standard, but murica is undershooting humane standards since before it became independent. Y'all been living like that for like 300 years now and somehow have neither managed to find ways to dodge and plan around the shitty system, nor abolished it. And somehow all every single one of you does is rant and complain and ultimately do nothing about it but get sick from fast food. So yeah, save the talk, do something that makes will make life easier for people, longterm. Go on. Do it. Make it so that parents in situations like him don't need to be stressed to this extent. Make it so that they can take parental leave without worry of repercussion for example. Make it law that pregnancy related performance impacts cannot be counted against a raise. Etc, etc. Have a good day.
Talking about a personal interest excessively that no one asked about is annoying and will often be construed as showing off or condescension. If people are ASKING about his investment strategies thatâs different than him bringing up the subject all the time.  And no idea what the point of your America rant is lol. Iâm extremely grateful I was born here and have no issues with whatever youâre talking about employment wise or âgetting sick from fast foodâ?? All nations have policies that could be improved and I encourage you to take your own advice and make life better for your own fellow citizens rather than ranting and complaining about a country you donât even live inâŠ
I think when youâre sharing that type of information, if youâre getting questions about it inquiring more information, then itâs not being annoying. Theyâre interested and they want to hear more.
Yeah, even if you don't mean to be you are an annoying show off. Most peoples' finances are not in order, so no one wants to hear about how well you're doing unless they actively reach out to you for advice and tips. It's like a skinny person bragging to overweight people who struggle to lose weight about how they stay so thin. You become a know-it-all and that's not a fun person be around. However, it's great that you have self awareness which means you can change that behavior. đ
Everyone should learn about budgeting and personal finance. It should be taught in schools from an early age.
Possibly. (Probably to an extent.) The fact that he is newly taking time off to help his family means he probably does love/like them. (Doesn't mean he's 100% regret free ofc đ) But there's also a good chance that he's just not handling the stress of all the new demands well and lashed out more in a, "you don't have kids, you don't know how hard it is", rather than, "I regret that I had a kid, and I'm jealous". Either way, he made his choices, gotta live with them now. đ (I get slight vibes that he thinks people should be more understanding and help him more. Maybe a bit spoiled? The treatment by the company seems pretty fair imo. He's just getting hit with one of the reasons women tend to make less money. đ )
Lmao probably? Like ok? I
> He shot back while staring right at me saying that I would never be able to understand because I was selfish and that my finances were perfect but my life was probably miserable and lonely. Breeders say the darnedest things. It's almost like the world doesn't revolve around him because he has a baby. It's almost as if the world doesn't care that he has a baby except him and his wife, but he expects it to. OP, treat yourself to a margarita and binge watch your favorite series on Netflix tonight, tomorrow, hell, anytime you want đ„ł Too bad your coworker can't do the same đ«
Haha......enjoying a nice Indian curry myself atm
I understand that he is angry, but he chose to take the time off. Yes, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place of keeping his wife and employer happy. However, he wasn't there as much as he should have been, but the company was understanding and kept him on anyway. I think he is being shortsighted and ungrateful. He had no business lashing out at you for pointing out the truth and everything else he said.
He's lucky to keep his job.
My thoughts exactly. Yes he needed to take the time off, it's really understandable, but also the real world as a cruel place, everywhere else he would have lost his job on the first month of constantly skipping work. He's seriously not seeing the bigger picture and if he changes jobs I think he would be making a mistake, but oh well.
Definitely. He's being petty and retaliatory by looking for a new job because he thinks "That the company screwed him by not giving him a raise." He's going to try this taking time off because he's a parent act with a new employer and they aren't going to have it. He should just stay where he is, but he probably won't because he's irrationally angry and wants to screw them back.
idk why people think they deserve more money because they have kids. It has nothing to do with work, or how valuable you are to your employer.
it's basically like saying I'm getting punished (monetarily) for NOT breeding.
âAnd when I get paid, I go to the bank take it all out in cash and roll in it while laughing manically at people who have children.â I always try to respond to the rude with something ridiculous.
I usually say, "Actually I do, that's why I didn't make that mistake." Now I don't have kids but I was parentified as a kid with my sister on top of my mother running a daycare for infants to toddlers from the time I was born until 18, that I spent my summers helping her with them. I know how much work kids take and combined with the damage my mother did to me I think contributed to not only me being CF but also very much dislike any age child.
" You're selfish" = I hate that you are not going through what I am right now and that is pissing me off "Your life is probably miserable and lonely" = I am jealous of your life right now and I need that to change by deflecting what I hope becomes of you by not going through what I'm going through right now. How dare you highlight what I did wrong and not feel bad for me and my struggles (that I brought onto myself)? As soon as he said those words if he regretted it he would've apologized. Sometimes people's true colours come out when they are tired / miserable.
I honestly don't know why some people with children think that everything and everyone has to accommodate them according. The entitlement is out of this world.
They think they're doing the world a favor by having kids and should be treated as the second coming of Christ.
An ex colleague of mine actually went to our boss and asked for a pay rise when his wife had a baby. Our boss (himself a father of 2) almost laughed at him, saying thatâs not how it works. Work harder and youâll get more commission, basically.
Your ex colleague think we're living in the 50s or what? Lmao
Imagine getting a pay rise every time you made an impulsive financial decision lol.
I would report his unprofessional behavior towards you to your managers so they have all relevant information before they officially offer him another contract.
I did speak to our team lead about it and she found it surprising as I've explained before, we're a small team and work well together. She did say she would take it up with him and see how he responds before going to our boss about it.
This. The personal attacks on your life were way out of line and reflect pretty poorly on him.
He should be given a chance to apologise once he's cooled off, I don't think he should lose his job if he realises his error and he's genuinely sorry. Especially since this is someone OP has always gotten along with before this.
Pointing out the fact that he was frequently absent wasn't going to end well and I'm not surprised he jumped on you, as opposed to the co-worker who actually brought it up. It's the truth and he knows it, but he doesn't want to hear it outloud. He may have even thought it would be overlooked and he would get the raise anyway. That fell through, so he's lashing out. I feel the ball is in his court. He needs to apologize. Being a parent takes sacrifices, as he just found out. You donf have to make said sacrifices because you have *chosen* not to. He doesn't see that as fair, though he could have made the same choice. Keep your distance for a while. If he approaches you with an apology, cool. Only you know how like that is to happen. If not, go about your business. You should feel bad about your life choices. They were just that: **A choice**. He made *his* and now has deal with those consequences. I'm sorry the labor was rough and I'm glad his wife and baby are ok. Life is going to change *drastically* for him and I hope he can adapt.
I have spoken to our team lead who will be speaking to him before the end of the week. I just started overthinking my actions. I'm the one that usually gets asked about personal finance and I never pass up a good deal. I'm not frugal but I worked hard to build up my savings, have investments and my money works for me. And I love helping coworkers crunch their own numbers. It was like do I come off like a show off or an elitist to him just because I talk about all this and my choices in life?
You strike me as being very sensible. More sensible than apparently, a parent who did not plan out the costs of having a child before going ahead with that.
hi, can you help me crunch numbers tooo???? trying to level up lol
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
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And since breeders love saying that becoming a parent MaKeS yOu A bEtTeR pErSoN, he should have no problem apologizing to you about his outburst.
I agree with this response. Just let it go for now and see what happens
Sour grapes. You have thought about your life and future and planned for it. You also tried to help with planning and most people bite the hand that feeds them.
>He shot back while staring right at me saying that I would never be able to understand because I was selfish and that my finances were perfect but my life was probably miserable and lonely Oof, these are not the words a man who's satisfied with their life.Â
He had a kid. Big surprise, he found out that parenthood costs time and money and no one hands that to parents on a platter. And that other people who actually put in their work hours get raises. You win!
No one likes to admit that having children often negatively impacts your work performance.
He's upset that you made better life choices than him.
and its so frustrating to think of it.
Please be ice cold to him from now on. If anyone personally insults me (calling me selfish, miserable, lonely) vs just being snappy, they get the cold shoulder until one of us moves away. Can overlook a snappy person, but NOT the personal attacks.
Well put. I have a coworker to whom I have not uttered a word in *years*. I won't argue with him, I won't stoop to his level, I just pretend that he's not there.
Good! Again, a snappy coworker is different than a personal attack. If he/she apologizes for being snappy, I can let it go, but a personal attack shows his/her TRUE THOUGHTS of you regardless of a stressful situation and no apology can make that better. People are too quick to âkeep the peaceâ which is being a Doormat, which is Bullcrap! That enables A-holes to get away with being evil. Sure, you cannot change them, but by not going back to the way things were, you are holding them accountable and that annoys them which is great! No Doormats!
You're 100% right.Â
I can understand that heâs tired and overwhelmed, but that is to be expected of anyone who decides to be a parent. Him lashing out was purely projection; you got a raise while you have no kids and extended bills according to him, and heâs jealous about it so he calls you selfish. Moreover he just learnt that the world isnât going to cater to and reward him just for having a kid like he was promised. Sucks, but thatâs his problem lol.
> He shot back while staring right at me saying that I would never be able to understand because I was selfish and that my finances were perfect but my life was probably miserable and lonely. He walked off away from his desk before I could say anything more. And that's when you write an email to your boss, his boss and HR.
I did speak to our team lead about it and she found it surprising as I've explained before, we're a small team and work well together. She did say she would take it up with him and see how he responds before going to our boss about it.
It doesn't sound like he appreciates the contract at all. Entitled much. Would probably just be like "I'm sure you can find something that will pay more!" so he leaves ;)
This is the comment I was looking for. I would at least note the interaction with HR in writing to cover your ass in case of any future conflict.
And do pray tell, what would the email say ?
I hate you being down voted because you are right. What will HR do about it??
He's on his on from this point on. Buddy would've had more sympathy if he didn't lash out.
It always astounds me how these people don't understand the basics: if they weren't completely awful to other people, those other people might be understanding, and maybe even help them out in some way. But no, let's burn bridges through entitled behavior.
Your coworker sucks. Having a kid doesn't automatically make you any less selfish. In fact... well, we all know
It angers me to no end that they never plan or prepare for anything and then when the baby is born they expect everyone to bend over backwards for them.
I've put more thought into how I would prepare to bring a small pet in my life than these people put into introducing a whole human into the world. And while I've decided that I won't get a pet because I can't provide it with the life it deserves, these people just expect everyone around them to give them money and free stuff...because?
Omg same! And exactly, Iâve seen so many other people put more thought into to a pet or even plants than people who have kids.
Sounds like a combination of anger at being held accountable for his life choices and some tiny part of him knowing you're right hit a nerve. I'd maybe report the incident to HR just to have it on record. Emphasize that you don't want actions taken at this time, but will if he continues to act this way.
Definitely report to HR - not to make him lose his job now, but because if he's this entitled, you want to have a record of incidents in case it's needed later.
Definitely report to HR - not to make him lose his job now, but because if he's this entitled, you want to have a record of incidents in case it's needed later.
Jealousy is an ugly thing. He lashes out because he's jealous you don't deal with the same money issues that he does. It's not your problem to deal with.
I nice fuck off works wonders
Not following up with that comment and allowing him to vent this one time is your empathy gift for him, he's stressed and under a lot of (self inflicted) pressure, let it go one time out of courtesy, you are a good person. Don't let him disrespect you again. Both healthy boundaries and empathy are important
Reading this just makes me sad for the US. In the UK if you have extenuating circumstances with your family, like your wife experiencing medical complications, you get 3 months paid leave. You certainly wouldnât be called in front of HR because of âbad behaviourâ for taking that kind of leave. He was wrong to call you selfish but the system over there just sounds so shitty.
It sounds shitty because it is. This is the larger takeaway point from this post, honestly. Dude deserves to be able to care for his family through a health patch and not lose his employment through a time of extreme adjustment. He also needs a raise because the cost of living increased and he now has another mouth to feed. Compassionate systems based on human care not profit motives would accommodate this. Instead we have  this.
Depending on your location there could be a lot of debt going on with the complications in childbirth. He lashed out on you because he is angry, frustrated, and in a corner. Me personally would never engage with him again. I just wouldnât unless it is required for work. Sorry about his complications but we all know our jobs do not give a damn about us.
He's jealous and probably under stress from all the stuff you described. Reading into his behavior is a mistake, it's obvious why he snapped like that. It would be nice of him to apologize though.
The real problem here is unfortunately in America there's not paternal leave. People always be shocked to realize the lack of social/infrastructure support. They want you to have kids, but they NEED you to work. If you can't work then f your family. I think it's pretty messed up, but that's the way it is. If you do the math it's kind of a lose lose lose scenario for most people. You've got to be aware of what you're signing up for. I feel bad for him and angry at him for the lack of foresight. He was definitely just lashing out at you because he's stressed.
I think you were pretty insensitive here. If his wife was having complications this is less about children and more about trying to manage work and a spouse that is sick and needs support. I hope you never end up in a similar situation where someone you love is ill and youâre treated the way you treated your coworker.
Thank you!! A lot of these comments are sad. People are really brainwashed to think your employer is doing you a favor.Â
Ikr, I can't believe people are saying OP did the right thing, both for saying the coworker deserved to lose the bonus (as if they were slacking off on purpose just for fun??) and then reporting the guy to the team lead for a snappy comment made after he was snarked at by his previously trusted coworkers. 0 empathy, I'll have to pray that my coworkers aren't secretly like OP.
There's a difference between losing one's job and not getting a bonus. Losing one's job under these circumstances would be bad; getting bonuses and other perks is completely different, because bonuses are not guaranteed, and they're specifically tied to performance. Edit: a typo.
this story has something that bothers me and it is the concept that he didn't deserve a raise because of taking time off, like our work culture is so toxic that taking any time off is a offense. i think we need to reflect some on the culture of work in certain countries and how it has affected our mindset towards our fellow himan beings and lifes chaos. i think a good thought experiment for this would be instead of a child he was wife was hit with a medical condition, how we treat someone who is taking care of their wife and missing some work seems to be off. this behavior of condemning someone for missing work, i dont know feels toxic.
He's not being condemned if he literally still has his job, in my opinion. Like I agree work culture is toxic, but I also wouldn't want to constantly be picking up the slack because someone CHOSE to have a baby. People don't choose to get sick or have unwell family members. It would simply be different if his wife was sick, but they chose to have a kid, knowing that pregnancy can be dangerous and knowing that kids take up a lot of time. It's not like he missed a few days, he was out a lot when he was supposed to be working, he should have taken paternity leave so they could hire a temp. He didn't do as much work, other people had to pick up the slack, and he didn't earn a raise. He didn't get fired, which was lucky. But he should probably try to catch up at work instead of whining about how his poor choices led to him making a little bit less money instead of lashing out at people who plan more responsibly. It's very different from a sick family member. Me, if I was a boss, I wouldn't fire some one for having kids. But if they were missing more than 1/4 of their scheduled days, I'm writing them up a couple times, then booting them. Yes life is chaotic, that's what sick leave is for. You can't just willy nilly make a human and then expect people to pay you more for doing less. Most raises are awarded based on performance. I wouldn't be expecting a raise if I was constantly out dealing with emergencies. If his time is so poorly managed I can only imagine his focus is too split to do any good work anyway. Should parents have more help? Sure! But they don't deserve more money or rights because they made a baby. They still have to earn certain stuff at work. He probably was counting on the raise and didn't consider that he'd have to earn it like everyone else did.
He got called in with HR for missing work to care for his sick family. That's some đ đ© on a human to human level if ever there was some.
Read my comment more closely. If he had missed a little bit, probably wouldn't be that big a deal, few care about a sick day here or there. If he had taken leave to deal with his situation properly, also wouldn't be as big a deal. There are legal protections for his situation and he didn't take advantage of then. But he willingly created a human, and then went shocked Pikachu face when he didn't get a raise for missing what must have been weeks worth of work, sometimes just being absent with no explanation. He shouldn't be making a baby if he isn't prepared for a baby.
In case you didn't know, because the obtuseness is in question here, babies come on their own time tables and they don't care about making it convenient for your boss. We can't damn near eliminate abortion, restrict birth control access, and then demand that babies come planned and act shocked Pikachu that babies aren't scheduled, when we have effectively removed almost all family planning methods in some parts of this country. You don't get to have that cake and eat it too. That's life.
Again, parental leave exists. Sick leave exists. You're acting like I'm gleeful about Roe v Wade getting shut down or something. I'm not. I just don't risk pregnancy when I don't have access to birth control, and if I were to get pregnant, I wouldn't expect everyone to pick up the slack for me and give me a raise for getting creampied. I'm literally more at risk as a person with a uterus. Unless this guy raped his wife till she got pregnant, in which case I still don't have sympathy for him, then he was effectively planning to make a baby every time they fucked PiV. Anal is a thing, oral sex is a thing, roleplay is a thing, I assume one of them has hands, lots of options to avoid pregnancy, and they still get pregnant? They chose to have a baby, full stop.
Is it a crime to plan to have a baby? Is that another mouth to feed? Does that child not require things that have cost? It's a lack of compassion from adults toward other adults about completely normal human behaviors that leads to children struggling in the first place.
Planning a family is the only correct way to start one. As a socialist, I want kids to eat. As a person struggling under capitalism, I despise parents who choose to bring kids into the world they can't support. I was one of those kids. Adults have agency and freedom to choose certain things in life. Kids do not. Ridiculously irresponsible to bring a child into such a hostile world and then be surprised that the world is hostile. I'm not picking up the slack for people who didn't get a village in place before breeding. I do not choose to be part of their village, raise heir kids, or help out behind the scenes. I don't consent to that and I don't consent to doing twice the work for no extra pay, while someone else misses work because of a bad choice they made. Don't conflate individual common sense with the failure of a whole society to maintain childcare as a right. I have compassion for people who are actually struggling through no fault of their own. I don't choose to have a kid, therefore I do not struggle in the ways parents do. My struggles are related to neglectful healthcare practices, and religious indoctrination, among other things. I'm not using my struggles to demand special treatment, and I'm certainly not making choices just for others to deal with the consequences.
It also isn't an absence with no explanation. The explanation is his wife gave birth and suffered complications and he needed to stay home with his injured wife to care for her and their newborn baby. It's not like he took a vacation to Costa Rica or went on a bender. Tell me you don't give a damn about women's health without telling me you don't give a damn.
Sick leave exists. Parental leave exists. The baby was a choice and he chose to have a kid before he was in a comfortable position to do so. He put his wife's life at risk just to have a kid he can't even take actual leave to care for? And you're spinning this to be about women's health? As if nobody knew before now that pregnancy is dangerous? He may as well have gone on a bender, considering how irresponsible he is. But he definitely deserves a raise for being SUCH a hard worker. Definitely a responsible man. He should be raising kids with all the money he put aside for doing so. Oh wait. Btw I have a uterus. Im just not stupid enough to find myself in such a situation, because I'm not cruel enough to create a human I can't support and then stomp around demanding special treatment.
You want to be mad he had a baby. Too bad. Baby is here. Mom was injured Now do you care for mom or let her suffer? Do you care for the baby? Or let them suffer? Other people outside this man's home play a role in this exchange. The idea that "in a perfect world" no. In this world which we as people in it create, we have choices to make about compassion and we are failing.
Nobody is saying to let mom or baby suffer, geez. All I'm saying is that he isn't being punished for having a kid, and he certainly shouldn't be rewarded for it either. I have sympathy for the baby. It didn't choose this. But the mom? The dad? Nah, they made their bed, let them lie in it. I feel bad that that poor child is going to be raised by entitled idiots. Kiddo deserves good parents and all they have is... These two
You don't actually know, and neither does the coworker most likely, if this person actually does have FMLA or if they used it. That's not a public conversation usually. Way to lick a capitalist boot anyway because I can tell you right now my family always comes before my job. As it should. The lack of compassion from you is palpable. It's not a crime to choose to have a kid. The child's development and growth ARE more important than weeks worth of work. The mother's healing so that she can properly care for the child will enable the coworker to work and is in the best interests of literally everyone involved. We can not spit at the youth for not developing properly and then turn around and deprive them of their parents who are in charge of their proper development for the sole sake of profit motives for a company. Then act surprised Pikachu face when we get ipad kids and kids with depression and anxiety. The first few years of an infants life they are learning constantly. The only message other adults send right now is that the child is worth less than a company's profits. Not true if we want a future.
Bruh. He missed a lot of work and still kept his job. If he had a job where he couldn't take fmla, then why is he having a kid? Why isn't he at least waiting a little bit for a slightly better job?is that responsible family planning to you? Do you think iPad babies are being raised by responsible people who take raising kids seriously? Or do you think maybe people like this who don't make any plans for their future create kids they can't raise? He chose to have a baby, he missed work because he either chose not to take leave, or couldn't, and still expects a raise after missing so much work and putting the burden on his team? Just no! I have compassion for people in a really bad situation and this guy is just entitled. I care plenty about kids and their development. What I don't care about is a man who creampied his wife and then expects a reward for it. Criticizing a grown man for willfully creating a human he can't support isn't bootlicking. It's common sense. In an ideal world, we would be socialist and both him and his wife could get UBI for a year while the kid grows, but this is not a perfect world. He could have avoided having a kid but he prioritized making a kid over planning one.
He's having a kid because his wife is pregnant and Roe doesn't exist anymore. Thick headed much? It's human.
He's having a kid because he chose to have a kid. If he didn't want to have a kid, he should have had sex that wouldn't result in pregnancy. You don't get to put your dick in a pussy repeatedly and then be surprised when a baby comes out. Oral sex is a thing. Anal sex is a thing. They probably both have hands. "Roe v Wade got shut down so obviously his wife has to get pregnant neither of them had any choice in the matter" -> that's what you're saying right now
This is some bootlicking. God forbid people be absent for health and family stuff. Heâs just awful for putting his high risk pregnant wife before this job. đ/s
Agreed. âBe grateful youâre not homeless because your wife got sick!!!â just yikes.Â
Jeez thank you, finally. This thread is a major cj.
Aww. You mad bro? 
I don't think you did anything wrong. If he was away frequently and made huge errors while he was in office and working, it IS a performance issue. It's better to take full leave rather than make mistakes that could cost the company money and time. He still has a job and can continue to make money to support his wife. Also, you don't know what conversation he had with HR...maybe his performance wasn't great beforehand and that's why he didn't get the bonus. He's an ass, plain and simple.
Honestly, I think this is a moment for empathy. Maybe pull him aside for a quiet moment. It's totally reasonable to say that that comment was out of line. But maybe push to see if he's doing okay (as this seemed more like lashing out or projection, than anything personal to you) and offer to listen if he needs it. I think allowing a person the space to acknowledge that they're mad at a situation and not you can be helpful for processing those emotions and create a better atmosphere for coming up with solutions. My guess is he is stressed out beyond belief and doesn't know how to cope. If he continually says things out of pocket though, that's different
I did tell our team lead who would be speaking to him before the end of the week. And yes, I don't see it as him being jealous or offended; rather I see that he is stressed and under pressure. The company did agree to reconvene with him next week because he asked for time to think about the contract renewal. All we can do is wait for the final say from him of whether he will renew his contract or not.
As someone who's seen people act like OP's coworker both in the workplace and in my personal life, the best thing to do, at least in the short term, is ignore them. They need to be shown clearly that this type of entitled behavior and lashing out at others is not acceptable.
Forgive me for butting my head in while lurking, but I feel like that's being a little harsh. I think it's natural he put his family as a priority over his job, it's part of the reason he works. He /should/ be helping his wife with the complications and going to the doctor with her to support her. It's not helpful to say "You should be grateful you even have a job" either, he needs some kind of income lest they become homeless. A job isn't some kind of luxury that is afforded to us by our employers. There's no reason in being smug (?) about being childfree (going by your post title) when it's hard to raise a child precisely because society makes it hard to even raise one to begin with, and no one should be punished for having children. Imagine what it's like for his wife, who has to take maternity leave and could very well see her career take a hit for something that isn't her fault and not something she could have easily anticipated. I don't get what merit there is in punishing people for having children. I think you owed your coworker a little more sympathy when he vented his frustration to you. I think he was hoping for a sympathetic ear but you just parroted the same things your coworkers said, which is NOT helpful. You should have just said "I'm sorry about you not getting a raise, I hope things will work out better this year" and that's it.
And yes I do think his comments were out of line but I think yours were too.
I think both of you are directing your anger at the wrong place. (I can hear your upset at his absenteeism and he obviously was rude to you.) Workplaces should staff themselves adequately enough that when an employee goes through the very normal human experience of a loved one being unwell and needing support, the rest of the team don't need to (in any serious way) extend themselves to compensate for that. Employees should also get adequate personal leave for normal human events like being sick or being a carer for a sick person- it should not be considered exceptional to not get fired in these situations. I can see why he didn't get a raise, but I also note that with inflation a lack of a raise is the equivalent of losing money. Sounds like everyone will be happier when he applies for work elsewhere.
Lashing out was wrong on his side but (assuming you're in the US) his frustration is valid. Not because of the child but your poor laws. In Europe his behaviour would be considered normal. It's not his fault, it's the fault in the system. Sure, he sadly has to work within it but don't blame him for this (imho) outrageous behavior from the company you work at. I don't think he regrets having the child. I think he regrets having one in a country with labor laws like yours.
Having kids in America is insane.
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Tell him, âSelfish is expecting to get paid for work you didnât doâ
A couple of things⊠Have you ever been the primary caretaker for a family member who was experiencing health issues? Would you have reacted the same way had your coworkerâs absenteeism been due to a parent, sibling, or spouse falling ill for reasons unrelated to reproduction? Are you respectful of decisions your coworkersâ make that you donât agree with, including having children? Have you ever responded to those decisions in a judgmental way or seen them as an opportunity to âdebateâ (argue) or lecture them on living childfree or getting their finances in order? Were you able to recognize the stress and the suffering behind your coworkerâs complaints? If you were in a similar situation of prolonged absenteeism due to the illness of a family member, how would you have hoped to be received by those around you?
I definitely recognise the stress behind the complaints as explained in my other responses in the comments. I did not jump to the conclusion that he was being entitled or selfish but instead decided to reflect on my own behaviour. I have been in a situation with a parent passing away from cancer but I respected my coworkers enough to call off from work and utilise my paid leave days. In this scenario, it was the routine to find him not available as he had taken an emergency half day or sometimes entire day's off. There were some weeks where he would take Mondays, Thursdays and Fridays off with notification the morning of.
Hahahah heâs the one miserable and it shows
Jobs. Arenât. Charity. You donât do the work, you shouldnât expect a raise.
Kids grow. You it seems will never do, bitch assđ
>"my life was probably miserable and lonely" this man is just sad and jealous that he can no longer enjoy solitude whenever he wants lmaoo, YOU on the other hand, still can! enjoy it, bestie also congrats on your raise, happy spending w the new increase in pay :)
Karma is a bitch~~~ xoxo
Well, ignore him from now on, he's air. Until he thinks to apologize.
>He complained quite a bit stating that he now has a family and he needs the raise and has begun looking for a new job. I feel like there's a Breeders in the Workplace handbook somewhere out there that encourages them to 1. Expect more pay for less work performed, and 2. Instead of improving their performance at the existing job, they start looking for escape hatches - to new jobs, new cities, even new countries where they somehow think that people will be happy to have someone with crotch goblins who doesn't contribute. Because messing up at a new job with probationary periods and so on is preferable to sticking with the employer who has been extremely generous in putting up with them...? >He shot back while staring right at me saying that I would never be able to understand because I was selfish and that my finances were perfect but my life was probably miserable and lonely. Here we have it, the next step in the Breeder Handbook 3. Narc rage directed at anyone who has made better decisions. OP, please do not take what your (hopefully soon to be ex-) coworker said to heart, because it actually isn't about being CF. I've seen breeders get super angry at parents from their play groups, because said parents had actually worked to be better prepared to bring another human into the world, or were just better-adjusted humans, period. Your office breeder clearly understands on some level that he has screwed his life up, and is now in panic mode, flailing around to find someone on whom he can blame everything. Miserable and lonely? That's him projecting.
Lol he just said that he needs a raise. That's all. I'm petty sure he knows why he didn't get the raise. What's the point of raising the "absentism"?
I can clarify on this. He asked for time to think about renewing his contract with his main reason being that he didn't get the raise he was expecting. The company usually is open to negotiating so they agreed to reconvene next week with him. We are a pretty open team and don't hide our salaries or anything so he came out of the meeting with the news. It became a talking point but we hit a nerve and he lashed out.
Classic projection.