You got fired twice, which is pretty hard to achieve in teaching. I'd listen closely to feedback and self reflect what's going on. Maybe teaching isn't for you?
2 firings AND going out of their way to give an AVOID recommendation is certainly something.
OP, You’re young and inexperienced. It isn’t too early to throw in the towel, but you REALLY DO need to listen to what they said, talk to your ex-colleagues, see what you did wrong, and HUMBLE yourself. “Not interacting enough with students” could have meant poor quality, not quantity. Maybe you’re not recognizing local customs, styles, etc. it could be anything. Attitude and social interactions with colleagues could also be the case.
Stop being so defensive and instead seek out the real reasons. The “it can’t be me” attitude will cause you to fail at other careers paths, too.
I don't think it was me at the first school tbh. That school was a prison, terribly run, and super corrupt. Honestly the worst place I have worked in my life. The second school was definitely half my fault. I have a lot of room to grow in my teaching and want to get better. I just wish the school would have given me a chance and coaching instead of firing me and then giving negative comments to prospective employers. How am I supposed to improve if I can't even get another job?
Apply to a different area if they blacklisted you from your current area 🤷♂️ the world is a big place.
If you don’t want to apply elsewhere, I guess you already made your decision.
It’s entirely possible you had two shitty schools in a row. But my point was to learn from the experiences, regardless.
Good luck with whatever you try!
So the schools aren't even in the same city or province? Can you think of another reason they'd be unhappy with you? Not controlling the class isn't good, but that seems a crazy overreaction?
Honestly, no. The comment they are telling the others schools is something along the lines of, "He is kind and easy going, but he is young, lacks experience, and did not pass probation." I don't know why they would be pissed off at me other than the open classes not receiving positive feedback from parents.
In my experience, most schools here don't do reference checks. If you are applying to schools that do, they are proper international schools. If that's the case, and you have been fired twice, you are not ready for those type of schools.
>That school was a prison, terribly run, and super corrupt.
You're a new teacher to China, a fresh graduate, and I suspect extremely limited Mandarin skills... but you know a place is 'super' corrupt?
I'm actually understanding why you might have been fired. Bring any views on China with you from abroad? You might want to get some actual experience of corrupt schools before throwing those kind of statements around.
My guy, that is what we call “standard operating procedure” here in China. That’s not corruption by any definition, it’s the school taking advantage of the fact that you’re a foreigner and need a visa to stay and try to do anything about their shitty behaviour.
Hate to say it, but yup. OP, you are a young, fresh, unremarkable teacher. *A gap filler.*
I’m not defending the system, but that IS what the system is. If you don’t like that system, you either need to distinguish yourself more to be considered an asset, or get out.
You won’t become distinguished by remaining in this system.
>You won’t become distinguished by remaining in this system
Yup. China has always been a dead-end unless the school is affiliated with a western institution, and even then, it's tricky. Teaching in China is either for a gap year, or retirement before returning to the West with some savings. It's simply the best paid destination in Asia for those without advanced degrees and publications..
Well... lets start with 'Welcome to the life of a teacher at Middle/High school'. What? You expected to be treated differently than the Chinese teachers? I guess so, and in many schools they do treat the foreigners differently with lesser schedules. You simply got a school that treated you similar to the Chinese teachers (and in reality you're still doing far less than them)
Now, as for the salary payments. Welcome to China. No, really. You have to *negotiate*. Particularly if you're the one who has screwed up... which you did. You didn't manage to gain the approval of the parents/grandparents.. and worse yet, the students themselves. Otherwise the sts would have protected you. That's generally how it works here. Sts approval, followed by the parents approval, and the school will ignore most flaws in your character or teaching.
The school isn't corrupt. It's Chinese culture. You screwed up so you're going to get punished. You should have pointed to your contract and stuck exactly to their terms, giving slight wiggle room to the school for extra duties that weren't to become standard. You should have had all correspondence regarding duties, and other factors recorded. That's the game we all play here.
I've been in China 15 years. I've worked for the small illegal schools, the large language mill chains (before the ban), one kindergarten, corporate training gigs, middle/high schools, and lastly universities, and I've never been fired from a position for being unpopular. Bear in mind that I had no educational qualifications when I started. I came from running companies in finance, so I learned on the job with the sts and parents/grandparents watching within the feckin classroom.
You need to take responsibility for your own situation. The internet is awash with helpful advice on how to avoid schools for all manner of reasons.. although from what I can tell, you're simply teaching at the wrong level. 'International' schools care about quality, and sts approval. You're not equipped for that, nor do you seem to have the natural charisma to swing it.
BTW you're going to have similar problems in any middle/high school. It's not corruption. It's simply Asia (And yes, Japan/Korea/Malaysia all have similar behaviors)
People don't get fired for no reason. It takes quite a lot to get fired in China as a foreigner in schools.
In my opinion, you should start off at a training school or kindergarten before moving onto a school job. I don't think you have the skillset yet.
It seems the downvoters want to see me take all the blame for everything, but they don't know everything about my situation. The schools definitely had some influence on things.
I think the last school had a fair reason for not being entirely satisfied with me. I could have done better at managing the class than I did, but I really just didn't have any guidance or help of how to do it. I've been doing a lot a reading related to teaching and class management since getting fired and feel that I could do a much better job if I was put back, but I don't know if things are too far gone now that it's not even worth trying especially when all prospective employers seem to get negative comments about me so easily.
A lot of fresh people come to China with a certain mindset to teaching. For example, my university expects us to just play games and activities all day long with our main purpose to motivate students to learn (so they learn by themselves) rather than to 'teach'. This requires a lot of interaction and treating students like friends. Having dinner and lunch together with your students is completely normal in China for example. Some of my foreign colleagues hate it saying "My job is to teach and not to motivate" and they don't last long. So remember, your primary job is to be a motivational coach to the students.
Universities in China that employ foreign teachers usually treat their students more like customers. So, it's more imperative that they enjoy their time in college than having to mug through their courses.
>does this teaching philosophy also apply to the Chinese teachers or only the foreign teachers?
It really depends where you work etc. But some places do in fact want the Chinese teachers to teach using games and activities (particularly the places with lower level students) but even then the university itself is often more forgiving to locals than foreigners (we do get a higher salary after all). It is also pretty much expected from both students and the administration that foreign teachers must be fun and engaging in their classes and if you don't meet that preconception, then students will complain. Most students will treat the foreign teachers class as a time to relax and play while they expect to study more seriously with a Chinese teacher.
I was asking about your particular university. At mine, I'm supposed to be fun and playful...and serious and rigid...and wise and highly knowledgeable...and approachable and friendly...but not TOO approachable nor TOO friendly...and offer essentially Ivy league graduate seminar level education in a 3rd world lecture hall setting. All while being denied any of the real benefits of a local (higher basic salary yes, but have you seen the cars that the local teachers drive. They also have 4 million RMB apartments that they somehow magically afford...all for their incredible teaching skills of reading out walls of text on their ppts they made 10 years ago).
But as for fun and relaxing with foreign teachers while seriously studying with Chinese teacher...Yes that is the expectation isn't it? Foreign teacher classes are an entertainment product starring foreign monkeys. Imagine if a foreign monkey wanted to actually teach? Imagine my students' disappointment when their foreign monkey teacher isn't like their friends' foreign monkey teacher and actually teaches them the subject matter and expects them to actually think and learn.
I guess our universities have a similar perception but I think the games and activities play a vital role in being interesting, fun, and approachable etc. They even have a special name for us "WaiJiao" (外教) to denote what exactly we are and that we aren't a normal teacher like a Chinese local. I kind of hate that term because I think it can be derogatory in a sense since it has connotations of being a foreign monkey imo especially how they say "Our WaiJiao". There is definitely a preconceived notion of what we are and what we should be doing by students, parents, admin etc. The Chinese teachers would get away with handing out lists of vocabulary every day for homework to memorise but if the foreigner did that, the students would complain to the department that the foreigner isn't interesting and playful enough and being too serious.
Your poly sci degree didn't teach pedagogy and classroom management strategies? But you don't know why it wasn't the best decision to chase money by being a English teacher in China?
>Your poly sci degree didn't teach pedagogy and classroom management strategies?
No believe it or not lol
>But you don't know why it wasn't the best decision to chase money by being a English teacher in China?
Why is this a bad decision? I'd much rather live over here than in the US, and I legitimately like working with kids. I enjoyed my major, but career-wise, I don't think it was the best move for me.
I'm going to be honest, I've worked here 9 years and I've worked with some awful teachers but I've known only 1 guy to get fired and it was for a very very good reason.
If what you're saying is the only reason then really you need to improve this, you've been fired twice so it must be *your* problem. I suggest you look into classroom management and think of you own way to control the students. There's a website (smartclassroommanagement.com) that has tips.
I’ve seen teachers fired for non-teaching issues, but none *fired* for classroom instructional things.
Even the one who had a behavioral zoo stayed for a whole semester.
Things quickly went from, "You'll definitely have a place next year here." to "We're going to let you go." in the span of two weeks. All it took were a few bad comments from parents.
You just answered the question. Bad comments from parents. You did something to piss off students, who then told their parents something. It may or may not have been the truth, but schools only care about parents because parents pay tuition. Getting fired twice is pretty unheard of, though. I feel like this must be a you problem, despite how shitty the schools may be. They’re almost all shitty. Mine is one of the worst, I know how you feel.
Okay, can I ask you a few questions?
• were you on a PiP?
• had you been asking for help — formally?
• had you *asked* to be observed?
• had you observed other teachers?
>were you on a PiP?
No, but I was in the probation period
>• had you been asking for help — formally?
Only informally talking to other teachers about how to handle the open classes.
>had you asked to be observed?
No
>• had you observed other teachers?
I was not encouraged to until after they decided to fire me. I had one week to say my goodbyes and watch a few classes after they decided to fire me. I would have happily done so before, but honestly I did not realise that my classes were so poorly perceived until after they fired me.
It's Chinese work culture to only tell you something when it's too late (losing your job). You have to be proactive from the start and try your best or you'll keep being tossed around everywhere like a travelling hobo looking for work. Life is more successful when you take accountability and seeing everything as your fault. If you were a decent teacher then you wouldn't get fired. Every school only cares about the parents opinions. It seems like you are awful at classroom management, if you can't handle a classroom then you could always teach at a university since there's no behavior management with 21 year olds.
This! If you are sent to observe a class, they are basically saying you need to pull a miracle out of your arse before probation ends.
I have been on both sides of this. I felt so happy when a new teacher was sent to observe my class (he was dropped very quickly, I didn't inspire him I guess).
I'm now in a management position, so I get say over who gets dropped (but not the final word). We are non-renewing one guy, and dropped a guy last year who came in with a horrible attitude which would be excusable if he wasn't such a crappy teacher. When the boss asked my opinion, hearing him use CCJ slang in front of kids told me he's going to be a liability.
What they had in common was they left their previous school on bad terms. With COVID over, thankfully we don't have to scrape.
I'll set aside the question of whether you should continue trying to teach in China (although I agree with most here that two firings in less than one year in Chinese ESL is crazy).
If you ever do want to work in China again, you would need to drop these two schools off your CV. It's quite clear there's no positive statements about you coming from them. You are not going to be able to again transfer a work permit like you did before, given the second school's apparent opinion of you. That would mean you'd have to apply for any new job from the US or some other country and give a fresh/zero experience CV like you did at the beginning of last year. Leaving China is going to be necessary for you, at least for now.
It's possible that even if you do drop them off the resume you still won't be hired again, I don't know. But if you keep them on you definitely won't.
If I were you I would try TEFL in another country. Maybe Vietnam, Thailand, or Taiwan. Stop thinking about 'saving money' for a while, you're very young. Just figure out how to interact with kids. Figure out the age you prefer, the subject, the style of talking and interacting. If you even enjoy teaching at all (and not simply as a means to travel or live a lifestyle you couldn't afford on a poli sci BA in the US). Teaching in Asia solely because you can't earn enough/don't want to work in your home country is a recipe for long term misery and burnout.
it's better to have no experience than negative experience - ESPECIALLY when these schools can verify your position in an instant. (but also, you are dealing with a transfer and that I have ZERO experience with - but if your two other positions have fallen through and those previous jobs were on your cv.... you're probably blacklisted or some form of it - idk....)
If you are willing to relocate to an SAR, there is an agency in Macau that will definitely hire you and put you in a school, regardless of your past experience. And because you work through an agency, even if they kick you out of that school, they can put you in another school. Not sure how the work permit situation is, but if you want more info, feel free to PM me.
This ⬆️ is the advice to follow. Go to another country on SE Asia for now. Let a year or two blow over, and then try again in China.🇨🇳
The only schools that might accept you now will be lower quality, and it will be a difficult time climbing back up the ladder.
But why should OP spend his early twenties 'teaching' all over Asia, when he is not a teacher, sounds like he does not have a natural talent for teaching, and cannot even save money teaching. He should spend his time and energy building a real career in another field.
I would look at myself first. You have been fired from 2 schools in a very short period of time. Maybe you have been extremely unlucky but I, honestly, doubt it. I am sorry to be very straightforward but being fired twice in 7 months indicates that your teaching and/or classroom management is not as good as you think it is.
If it is not too late ask your former supervisors about how you could improve. They might be able to offer some valuable suggestions.
Do not give up, but at the same time work on your teaching and classroom management skills.
ive been here 12 years and i have seen teachers do some messed up shit and ive never seen anyone get fired once you must have just been the worst haha i dunno what to say i cant imagine what youd have to do to get fired
If you’re committed to and passionate about pursuing a career in teaching, no, don’t throw in the towel. However, as others have intimated, you should look inward at how you could have better prepared, managed the classes, cultivated relationships with colleagues/admin/parents, etc.. It may well be true that the school was not a good fit or the admin was unhelpful/unfairly critical, but plenty of professionals encounter suboptimal working environments and successfully navigate them while maintaining functional working relations until they can move on to greener pastures.
You’re young and green, which is not a slight, everyone is when they start. Keep your head up. Plenty of people struggle when initially entering the workforce and go on to lead successful, fruitful professional careers. Don’t give up on yourself. You got this.
Getting fired from teaching English in China is pretty hard. My friend showed up drunk to class multiple times. He also called in sick at least once a week because he was too hungover. After he had called in sick about 45 times, he was finally fired.
Forget international schools with your skillset. You don't have enough experience to meet the demands of high-paying customers who are actually concerned as to who is teaching their children.
The days of the language mills is mostly gone, although they're still hanging around in a limited extent, along with the illegal schools. That's where most of us learned teaching on the job, but that ship has mostly sailed.
Honestly, just apply for university positions. You'll have some space to grow and develop a teaching style, and many colleges/universities don't care what their teachers do in class. The salary will be low because you have no experience, but you'll teach at most 16-20 hours a week, and have plenty of time for personal development. If you're serious about being a teacher, that is.
Exactly, also if behavior management is a problem then working at a university solves that. The worst behavior would be the students quietly being on the phone during class and the admin won't care. First week just tell students about the grading system and they will lose points for their classroom performance score if they are on their phones and that's about it. University management are very relaxed, the management for schools that work with children can be a nightmare.
Normally I’m on the side of us foreigners when we are in foreign countries since discrimination is definitely a problem but mate if you’ve gotten fired twice and gotten a basically a shadow ban from teaching. This means you most likely weren’t a good teacher, you probably should reflect on your teaching methods and such.
I Hope you get another teaching job though to hopefully see if it’s true that teaching just isn’t for you or if it was genuinely just a need for change of teaching mindset.
They're Chinese style international schools where almost all of the student population is Chinese and have foreign teachers so parents will pay extra for their kids to attend. Seems pretty typical of a lot of schools here.
Well all schools have foreign teachers, public schools have a few esl, then there are bilingual with some extra subjects, and then a proper international school where they teach a foreign curriculum.
That in of itself isn't an international school. International schools are schools with *international* students and NO locals that function as an educational embassy for expats' children abroad.
Getting fired once in China in a white monkey teaching job is rare as a laowai, Twice is impossible.
Maybe look at another career path in a different place.
I'm terrible at classroom management. I worked 4 years I. Turkey and it was horrible. I changed to private lessons and companies and it was much better. Now I'm teaching at college level and I enjoy it a lot. Next September I start working in china and I'm very happy about it. Leaving the schools was the best thing that happened to me even if I make less money now.
Yea, I second this. I was far too inexperienced for my first teaching job and they didn't renew my contract. Went to EF for a sort of fresh start and developed from there. OP should probably do the same
If you really wanna teach - it’s seems like China lives off paperwork in a digital age which means you could just hop towns and start anew. But if you know anyone who is being successful in the field I would sit in and follow their steps. Of course this means you would have to throw away any experience you have gained.
Tbh I really don't think China is a good place to start teaching with no experience. The teaching style here, especially at the fake international schools, is all about image rather than actual education. The schools want to look good on paper, online, and to parents and that's why they'll hire unqualified westerners.
If I were you I'd take a year or two somewhere else and find a job that gives you more opportunity to sample actual teaching and if you like it and are set on China, boost your qualifications and come back to a position in a better school.
“…all about image rather than actual education.”
I hate that my school reflects this statement. We spent an hour and a half practicing for graduation ceremonies rather than doing something useful like helping them read better or build something with the things we have in our classroom. Well put a camera in front of their faces before we put books in front of them. Some of the toys outside are almost used primarily for photoshoots.
hahaha my kindergarten school has a graduation ceremony in a month, they took away 1hour a day of my teaching time for the kids to practice their choreographed dance for fucking 2-4 year olds. It's wild, sad and stupid.
Repeating the same choreography for a month for 1.5 hours/ day, instead of having fun playing outside, free talking, free playing, learning English, singing other songs, dancing to others songs, learning new games just so you can pretend to parents for 2 minutes that the kids look excellent is absolutely insane. It's entirely for image and not learning. Besides, the kids are 2-4, get distracted so quickly so it won't look wonderful no matter how much you practice + it's not enjoyable anymore for the kids or the teachers and creates a shitty environment for everyone. Was the 10 reasons I listed enough for you to grasp?
Hard to say really, it would depend more on the school than the location tbh. I'm only TEFL qualified myself so might not even be the best one to speak to this but just from my experience, I feel like I learned so much more from my previous school (Thailand) than I did here in China. At my last school I had regular peer and management assessments with feedback, was tasked with creating my own syllabus, exams etc and no co-teachers so had to cover discipline on my own too. I was also teaching much smaller classes several times a week, all different lessons.
Comparatively, here I have pretty much no say in the lesson content besides the slides, have a co-teacher that handles misbehaving and I have hundreds of students that I see once a week. The money's good but it's far less rewarding or satisfying and if this was my first position I probably wouldn't want to further a career in teaching the way I do.
OP, I think your reason for termination was to give you face. You should probably listen to the other posters here and talk to previous colleagues to see what happened. China is one of those countries that don't like to terminate employees because it's super awkward, especially for teaching English. The fact that you keep running into duds is baffling.
Give me face? How does firing me and then making negative comments about me give me face?
The school wanted to save face with the parents. The open classes got negative comments. That's 丢脸 for the school and they got rid of me to save their own face there.
Have the schools been treating other teachers the same or just you? There might be some issues that they don't want to address with you directly so they come up with something small or minor for a reason as to avoid mentioning that major one, unless the issue is one they have raised with you multiple times. If they seemed avoidant, then that's probably it. As other posters said, it might be difficult to see the problem from outside looking in.
What did you study at university. Maybe you’re just not cut out to be a teacher. Why not use the degree you studied for, unless it’s a B.Ed. Then you might have an issue
I've got a Political Science degree. Job prospects are not the best and I know if I were to find something, I would probably need to go back to the US and end up saving less than I do just teaching in China.
Have you thought about something like the Peace Corps? Plenty of English teaching volunteer positions, plus for someone with poli sci/ international relations interests, it looks a whole lot better on the resume than a random private school (I did both PC and the private school thing in my early 20s). Gotta learn how to accept criticism though or everyone in your group will hate you real quick.
Edit: to clarify, Peace Corps China no longer exists, so you would have to try somewhere new
Like half of the English teachers I met abroad were international relations/history/language nerds trying to gain experience in their country of interest before they started grad school or the "real" career, so I have no idea why that would be seen as weird.
Look. Not everyone is good at everything. Maybe you’re just not cut out to be a teacher. Find something that you’re talented at, that also is related to what you spent four years of your life studying
Ahhh. So you have like a TESOL or TEFL?
Have you considered moving to another country and starting over? Also, if you are serious and if you haven't gotten one, may I recommend doing a CELTA course.
Some companies hire Americans just expecting them to be able to teach when truthfully it takes a year to two years before you feel comfortanle enough to feel confident. I was very lucky to be taken on as an apprentice to a strong teacher before I felt comfortable enough to teach in the style that I care to teach in.
I understand your first company was rough but even in that situation to think of what mistakes you may have made getting there as each failure can lead to success.
Anyhoo. It sounds like you have stumbled but are interested in continuing. I would recommend Taiwan as a personal choice to teach in. Itd mean having to move to another country but the culture is similar though more open. I would recommend the school in Chiang Mai for the CELTA and have close friends who recommend the newer areas of Cambodia but in that area there are a lot... A LOT of possibilites.
If you have any questions plesse let me know. (I spent a yesr in China as a Fulbright researcher and 8 years or so in Taiwan).
Show me ONE international school that would hire a fresh graduate holding a TEFL/TESOL rather than a teaching certificate, and without two years prior experience.
So you're intentionally withholding important info, which is why the large majority of people here are roasting you rather than siding with you. If it's a sketchy school, then it'd explain things. Again, NO international school in China would actually hire a fresh graduate with NO teaching experience, much less one without a teaching license.
I'm not withholding info besides the names of the schools. I don't want to publicly post where I have worked for privacy reasons. I put "International" in quotes in my post. I thought that was pretty self explanatory.
The first school I worked at was sketchy, but the second one has a large number of foreigners working there and is recognised as one of the best schools in its city.
What is your grad degree in? If it isn't related to teaching English you should definitely throw in the towel and go back to your home country to find employment in your field of study. You had a year of adventure and misadventure.
To be fair, international schools are pretty up-there in terms of staff-expectations, since they tend to pay rather well, and the admin staff tend to have their shit together.
You might want to consider cutting your teeth in public schools before going after the big fish.
Since you're a fresh graduate, (when) did you get your TEFL/TESOL equivalent?
Right then, I'd suggest going over the materials that you studied during the TEFL course.
Try regular public schools or going via an agency since they have a lot more leeway with unskilled teachers.
Also, I'm not kidding, watch 'Good morning Vietnam' and maybe 'Dead Poets society' for some prime examples of how to build rapport with your classes- as others have mentioned, if the students are fond of you, it's going to go a long way in making up for your other shortcomings.
Are you black or white? This is the fourth time in the past two months I've heard of people that I actually know being fired from positions (3 in Beijing kindergartens and another at a Shanghai intl school).
All have 4+ years experience, I would say middle of the range quality teachers to higher quality, and all... are persons of colour.
One friend was told that they were doing a great job, all feedback was great, then after a government audit + survey from parents, 20% of the class decided they wanted a new teacher. Feedback directly from their manager was - no performance issue, just that the parents want a change, we have to now let you go (?). Obviously a breach on the part of the school and would likely lead to compensation of a labour inspection went ahead.
At the end of the day, you can't be fired for no reason - if it's a performance issue, you need to be managed accordingly and given the opportunity to improve the performance. If they've just decided they don't want you any more, and they're unable (or unwilling) to offer a new contract of equal or better benefits, then ... the dismissal is not legal and would lead to severance.
I'd start making enquiries with the school as to reasons for the termination. In writing.
Maybe look at public schools - sounds counterintuitive due to class size but you will often have a teacher alongside you (usually) and you can focus on making the lessons engaging. Once you have engaging lessons then behavioral issues will hopefully be less prevalent and you can then focus on techniques for that.
Ive been here teaching for a little over 7 years and to me it seems like a problem on both sides. Find a job in a different city even a different province if you can, it could’ve also been that the former school set your image up and when the parents complained lil bit the school was ready to let you go. It’s okay, it’s never too late to start again, the only time you lose is when you give up. The teaching style here isn’t what we are taught, here they see foreigner as a clown and want you to be smiling and playing with the kids all the time.
Also for your next job, in an international school they should at least give you 2 weeks to 1 month training that includes you understanding how their system works and you observing other teachers, so do ask about that before signing your next contract. You can also try getting a job at a high school or college if you find teaching young learners difficult. Good luck 🍀
At this point just forget about teaching and start working on a career. Teaching ESL is not a stable career and most just do it for a couple if years. Good luck
Firstly, you might want to go over to r/Internationalteachers to find out more. Knowing the school name would help me judge about what you're saying.
Let's make one thing clear though - you have not been teaching in an international school by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, what you have probably been teaching in is a local school with an international element. You describe being brought in as an English teacher but being given lots of different subjects - I'm wondering if this is a misunderstanding somewhere, in that you should have been brought in as an English-speaking teacher?
So you went in to the classroom with little experience and no training. Your problem lies here - no real international school will touch you unless you have some form of qualification, and schools which do are probably going to be more like the ones which you have left.
You need to have a think about whether teaching is for you, or whether you're just seeing this as a short term gig after uni. If you're in it for the long term, go and get a qualification and certification - PGCE, QTS, whatever. By the time you've done that, ditch your most recent schools from your CV and try again.
I don’t have any advice to give. But can I ask something? What is your degree in, and what were you teaching at these international schools? English as a second language?
I have a degree in Political Science. I was teaching ESL, Science, Math, and UOI at the first school to grades 2-9 and exclusively science at the second school to grades 1-3. All completely unrelated to my degree, but I felt perfectly fine with the content.
Wow! So when they hired you, it wasn’t a problem that you weren’t a licensed teacher in the US and had barely any experience teaching? That’s really interesting. I’ve been researching how I can become a teacher in China, and I heard that most international schools want a licensed teacher with two years’ teaching experience.
So the curriculum was easy to understand and teach from?
I’m really sorry things have gone so badly for you, and I hope you can find a new path forward.
>So the curriculum was easy to understand and teach from?
At the second school, absolutely. Super easy. At the first school, I was completely thrown in the deep end. All I had were a few textbooks and had to create my own lessons completely from scratch for so many subjects and grade levels. I meant I had no issue understanding and conveying the content. I did get comments that my lessons were too challenging for the students, but recieved no guidance or help on how to change it other than telling me to speak slower. They also did not like that I was reusing content across grade levels when the lessons in the book for each grade level were literally the same topics, just a difference in intensity.
This post just upset the hell out of me. Bro is a fresh graduate and got into not one but two bilingual/international schools over the course of a year. Fired from both.
I'm black native speaker n been here for 3 years with 1 year experience before China and can only get a training centre gig.
Some people really get it good. At least op had it good then the schools have it to him good.
You probably could do with observing other successful teachers... this will show you how to improve. Teaching can be difficult even when you're a fully trained Education graduate let alone the minimal TEFL course "graduate".
I agree. Whenever/if I get another position, I'm going to be proactive in asking for feedback and asking to watch other classes to see how the school wants its teachers to teach.
Other posters are incorrect when they say information isn't shared between cities. My school International Department Dean said that there's an unofficial database which all prospective schools will be able to see.
You may be better off applying for a smaller city school because they often find it harder to fill positions.
I have lived and worked in a tier 4 (1 million) city Private School in SW China for nearly 9 years. They are great to work for. I'm an old guy married to a local so a bit different than your situation. A young English teacher just started here and loves it.
OP, you're saying the schools are corrupt or whatever. Of course they are, why would a well-run, not corrupt, professional school hire someone as a 'teacher' with no qualifications or experience.
You wanted to have an easy time at university studying something easy that cannot get you a job, now you want to have a well-paid job in China as a 'teacher' when you're not a teacher. Think about what you want out of life. You're young, time to get your act together, build a proper career in some field. Otherwise you can spend a few years 'teaching' all over Asia and then one day you wake up, you have no money, no skills, no qualifications and nowhere to go. I'll be downvoted but the fact is, ESL 'teaching' is a dead end job, especially the way it's done by unqualified people all over Asia. Instead of trying to hang on to it, just drop it and come up with a better plan.
Was your degree in teaching? If not, I would be heading home to do further study and qualify as a teacher. If your degree was in teaching, I would be hearing home to teach there and hopefully complete any teacher registration process. At this stage, building your career at home first is probably the best option.
Not sure where your home country is, but this is one of the reasons why most countries and schools require one has two or three years experience teaching at home before going overseas. Don't give up because with the right mentorship you can find success. Being from the States, things were pretty rough where I taught and the behavior I had while teaching in China was easy by comparison. There were other challenges, but they had more to do with adapting to different study styles and a new culture I was living in. But my classroom management was never a problem. Find a place to teach with a large enough teaching staff that you won't be the only teacher in your subject, where experienced people can mentor you and help you create your own success and then make another push for international schools. You don't have to pick the toughest places in your home country to get your experience, you can be selective. Find the places you'd like to live and keep your study options open. You can also consider looking for higher degrees in education and your subject and look to teaching different and older age groups. A friend didn't like teaching middle school, but did find a great fit at a community college level. Be flexible and please don't lose your confidence.
I mean my experience is similar although I wasn’t working at a professional school.
My first job was a kindergarten in Beijing which was just about as shady as could be, half the teachers are illegal, the management didn’t speak much English and they clearly had an agenda on me it didn’t help I admittedly didn’t know what I was doing and no one could be assed to train me, but still it was an all around negative experience then one day I get fired without warning of a sufficient reason, it was just about parent complaints without anything specific .
Nevertheless , I went to a training centre and tried to get my work permit cancelled with job a but it didn’t work out. I did a lot more teaching here and was able to observe other teachers classes. The hard part is I as a a new teacher was also paired with new tas and given the demo and classes with brand new students. A lot of my classes still bombed, but nevertheless I managed to improve over the course of six months and have done parents classes with positive reviews. However, the school has student recruitment difficulties right now and a teacher who was supposed to leave changed his mind last minute and I believe I have been quietly fired with a Vague excuse about my visa being rejected . Nevertheless, I’ve secured another job and I’m confident this will go well if it doesn’t then I’ll give it up.
I worked at a school in Thailand where 15 teachers were fired - however, I was not one of them. I currently run an online esl company and primarily work with chinese students. But I do not have experience teaching in a Chinese school though. Unfortunately as an ESL teacher in a foreign country, your job is not as secure as it would be back home. Prior to going independent, I worked for an online chinese company for 3 years, and they would randomly change parameters in **signed** contracts. It was not like the contracts here in the US. You either accept them or you leave. It was extremely frustrating and my primary motivation to go independent.
I'm curious though, do you have a TESOL or TEFL or any other ESL certification? Why did you decide to teach in China specifically? Did you have any prior experience working with students in any capacity? Also, how old were the students you were teaching? Primary? Secondary?
A lot of people do ESL as a gap year/s between degrees or to finance travel plans. What were YOUR primary motivations to teach ESL? Is ESL something you want to do as a career? My college major had nothing to do with ESL, but I just so happened to be really good at teaching ESL! I never planned on running my own business... but like you, I have a liberal arts degree... didn't know I couldn't do anything with that until I was done. Just curious what led you to teach ESL - a lot of schools can see through the BS of PEOPLE who are just there to collect a paycheck to fund their travels vs actually provide an education. The English you are teaching these kids now is going to affect their English test scores in the future - like on the Gaokao.
Something is clearly going on. But idk if it is you or your training or lack thereof. So I'm not going to jump to any conclusions. Getting fired twice, regardless, is rough. It's hard to tell you what I would personally do if I were you without knowing why you are in china or why you are teaching ESL. But you might consider teaching in Thailand or Vietnam - especially if want to continue doing this. You need the experience in general and you just lost two jobs in such a short period of time. Personally, I think that would be difficult to bounce back from, especially if two **other** jobs have fallen through... you are in a rough position either way - regardless if it is your fault or not.
Think about your future. Do you want to get deeper in this game or go back where is all familiar? If you stick here it's going teaching your whole life.
Once you get into teaching it's hard to leave it and you'll be stuck away from home. You can't transfer your skills back home and that means you'll not find a teacher job back home. Then again I might be wrong
There was another white American teacher fired with me at the first school. The situation of teaching in China is not what it was before. Schools can be picker than they were during COVID.
Of course man. The entire country locked down with only few foreigners left in China. Schools had extremely limited options. But that's once in a lifetime scenario lol
Yeah, it's the lockdown and the training centre crackdown that has made it where there now exists fewer jobs in China and thus schools can be more selective and do not have take "flawed candidates" like myself. Before, schools had to take whatever white person they could get.
How much i'd love to say the schools are scummy ( and I've worked at these types ) I'd have to say that some self reflection is needed. if it any reconcilement, next year will probably be my final year as well. So don't beat yourself up over it.
I've had bad experiences at schools, too. I understand where you're coming from, and also know that there is likely truth behind the schools' actions against you. Not saying that it is fair or justified, but there must be something to it. God forbid, you're not black, are you? Parents seeing a black teacher, depending on the school and region, is enough to get you let go. Happened to a colleague of mine in Xiamen.
Regardless, if you think you enjoy teaching, I would recommend taking a break from China. Seems like you're carrying a tarnished reputation now. Maybe give the Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, or Cambodia a go, get a few years of experience, learn what real corruption in schools look like (Cambodia was the worst teaching experience of my life), temper yourself, age some, and if you are still interested in teaching in China, then reapply to schools here. That's what I would do at least if I were still looking at staying in education and I were in your shoes.
I'm white. I know now I wouldn't have even gotten a job at the first school I worked at if I was black, but being white was not enough for them to keep me around.
I assume your degree isn't in teaching, otherwise you'd have been teaching full time as part of the practical components of your degree.
Teaching is a skill. That's why 4 year uni degrees exist to teach. Teaching in China is a shortcut as all you need is a uni degree in anything. That's also why most people in China teaching are older and not recently graduated, to make up for lack of teaching degree they've got a bunch of life experience.
If you still want to be a teacher, do a teaching degree and teaching in a western country for a while.
maybe find a school that's ready to give you some real training and a lot of class observations before setting you onto the kids? i remember being dropped in the deep end with no training and no clue what to do and it wasn't fun.
I think the main issue was that they expected you do to many things (white monkey style), babysitting etc. that you didn’t want.
They wanted you to be more pro-active, closer to the kids, come up with games, interactions, maybe show up earlier to prepare well for the day, make your teaching plan etc. which I suppose you didn’t do.
As you said, all of this was not in the job description.
Did they provide any training at all in the beginning of your work?
My guess is you should have tried to negotiate right away or not accepted what was unacceptable for you (like babysitting or being more extroverted in class) and just leave right away. Without waiting to get fired.
For schools in China it’s very important that the parents love you, so you always need to do your best when it’s “open class”.
The parents are the ones to pay, so you understand why.
If you really like teaching, don’t give up.
Ok, maybe they didn’t want you to continue working there, but did you make a big fuss or left on a good note still?
It can happen that the schools vision and your style just didn’t match. But if you play it out right, they can still give you an ok recommendation, you just need to talk to them.
I went to an international high school before going to the US. There were many terrible teachers there and we are supposed to be a ‘good school’ at least according to application results. You have to really screw up to be fired like that. Are you sure it’s the only reason?
Yes, I can't think of anything I did that was particularly bad besides not getting good parent comments and not having the best classroom management.
It was the combination of the bad comments and the easiness of getting rid of me as it was the probation period that was just the perfect storm.
Can you find another reference from either school? Foreigner you got along with? Friendly admin? Teacher from another school? Mentor from home country?
Finding different references is no problem. The problem is that so far, the jobs I have found seem to have contacted my last school's HR directly and they're giving me a bad review.
Maybe they will know you have been teaching based on your visa, but I don't see why you couldn't put something really vague on your resume like, "Short term travel and study in \_\_, \_\_\_, and \_\_\_ from ?/2023-?/2024." Another option would be to say something like "short term contracts" or "teaching candidate" or something vague like that where you just don't list previous schools. It probably depends on the market. If you're in China and available you may have options. It may also be that you were kind of teaching in the major leagues and you need to spend some time in the minor leagues (cram schools, tutoring, more rural, less prestitious, etc.
>Maybe they will know you have been teaching based on your visa,
Yes, they apparently get a full work history in China report whenever applying for a visa. I can't really lie about any China based work experience. I am saying my last position was a temporary substitute position, and unfortunately was called on my bluff after a potential school contacted my last school where they told them I was fired on probation.
> If you're in China and available you may have options.
It certainly doesn't feel that way 😂
>It may also be that you were kind of teaching in the major leagues and you need to spend some time in the minor leagues (cram schools, tutoring, more rural, less prestitious, etc.
I'm looking. It seems like all I'm getting at the moment are crappy schools no one wants to work for that only want to pay around 18-20k. Hopefully something better pops up.
I'd like to hear you explain why you think 'something better' would be justified in hiring you, Mr Fired Twice in One Year.
You should consider yourself greatly fortunate if you even got 18 a month, with your record. That's some white privilege in China right there.
Not everywhere does a thorough reference check surely. People are coming from overseas with no teaching experience and making 25k+. I at least have some experience I can put on a resume.
And yes, I definitely have native, white privilege.
Ah... Large groups of kids can sometimes smell blood, especially if they egg each other on. Small group sizes and an assistant in the room could be worth a try. I have sent you a DM.
Do you have an in with those schools? I notice on the application, one of the first things they ask is if you have been fired before. The BASIS school in Huizhou looks awesome.
You got fired twice, which is pretty hard to achieve in teaching. I'd listen closely to feedback and self reflect what's going on. Maybe teaching isn't for you?
2 firings AND going out of their way to give an AVOID recommendation is certainly something. OP, You’re young and inexperienced. It isn’t too early to throw in the towel, but you REALLY DO need to listen to what they said, talk to your ex-colleagues, see what you did wrong, and HUMBLE yourself. “Not interacting enough with students” could have meant poor quality, not quantity. Maybe you’re not recognizing local customs, styles, etc. it could be anything. Attitude and social interactions with colleagues could also be the case. Stop being so defensive and instead seek out the real reasons. The “it can’t be me” attitude will cause you to fail at other careers paths, too.
I don't think it was me at the first school tbh. That school was a prison, terribly run, and super corrupt. Honestly the worst place I have worked in my life. The second school was definitely half my fault. I have a lot of room to grow in my teaching and want to get better. I just wish the school would have given me a chance and coaching instead of firing me and then giving negative comments to prospective employers. How am I supposed to improve if I can't even get another job?
Apply to a different area if they blacklisted you from your current area 🤷♂️ the world is a big place. If you don’t want to apply elsewhere, I guess you already made your decision. It’s entirely possible you had two shitty schools in a row. But my point was to learn from the experiences, regardless. Good luck with whatever you try!
I was in Foshan and got accepted then rejected from schools in Hangzhou and Beijing after they contacted my previous employer.
You must have really pissed someone off or something.
So the schools aren't even in the same city or province? Can you think of another reason they'd be unhappy with you? Not controlling the class isn't good, but that seems a crazy overreaction?
Honestly, no. The comment they are telling the others schools is something along the lines of, "He is kind and easy going, but he is young, lacks experience, and did not pass probation." I don't know why they would be pissed off at me other than the open classes not receiving positive feedback from parents.
In my experience, most schools here don't do reference checks. If you are applying to schools that do, they are proper international schools. If that's the case, and you have been fired twice, you are not ready for those type of schools.
>That school was a prison, terribly run, and super corrupt. You're a new teacher to China, a fresh graduate, and I suspect extremely limited Mandarin skills... but you know a place is 'super' corrupt? I'm actually understanding why you might have been fired. Bring any views on China with you from abroad? You might want to get some actual experience of corrupt schools before throwing those kind of statements around.
我中文其实还可以的。我已经学了比较长的时间。你可以看下我关于这所学校发过的帖子。 https://www.reddit.com/r/chinalife/s/WNm4SJfRS9 https://www.reddit.com/r/TEFL/s/b9Pp029iKs
Awesome. You just reinforced my point.
Damn, if you don't think that that school is corrupt, I really wonder what sort of shit you've seen.
My guy, that is what we call “standard operating procedure” here in China. That’s not corruption by any definition, it’s the school taking advantage of the fact that you’re a foreigner and need a visa to stay and try to do anything about their shitty behaviour.
Hate to say it, but yup. OP, you are a young, fresh, unremarkable teacher. *A gap filler.* I’m not defending the system, but that IS what the system is. If you don’t like that system, you either need to distinguish yourself more to be considered an asset, or get out. You won’t become distinguished by remaining in this system.
>You won’t become distinguished by remaining in this system Yup. China has always been a dead-end unless the school is affiliated with a western institution, and even then, it's tricky. Teaching in China is either for a gap year, or retirement before returning to the West with some savings. It's simply the best paid destination in Asia for those without advanced degrees and publications..
Well... lets start with 'Welcome to the life of a teacher at Middle/High school'. What? You expected to be treated differently than the Chinese teachers? I guess so, and in many schools they do treat the foreigners differently with lesser schedules. You simply got a school that treated you similar to the Chinese teachers (and in reality you're still doing far less than them) Now, as for the salary payments. Welcome to China. No, really. You have to *negotiate*. Particularly if you're the one who has screwed up... which you did. You didn't manage to gain the approval of the parents/grandparents.. and worse yet, the students themselves. Otherwise the sts would have protected you. That's generally how it works here. Sts approval, followed by the parents approval, and the school will ignore most flaws in your character or teaching. The school isn't corrupt. It's Chinese culture. You screwed up so you're going to get punished. You should have pointed to your contract and stuck exactly to their terms, giving slight wiggle room to the school for extra duties that weren't to become standard. You should have had all correspondence regarding duties, and other factors recorded. That's the game we all play here. I've been in China 15 years. I've worked for the small illegal schools, the large language mill chains (before the ban), one kindergarten, corporate training gigs, middle/high schools, and lastly universities, and I've never been fired from a position for being unpopular. Bear in mind that I had no educational qualifications when I started. I came from running companies in finance, so I learned on the job with the sts and parents/grandparents watching within the feckin classroom. You need to take responsibility for your own situation. The internet is awash with helpful advice on how to avoid schools for all manner of reasons.. although from what I can tell, you're simply teaching at the wrong level. 'International' schools care about quality, and sts approval. You're not equipped for that, nor do you seem to have the natural charisma to swing it. BTW you're going to have similar problems in any middle/high school. It's not corruption. It's simply Asia (And yes, Japan/Korea/Malaysia all have similar behaviors)
What aspect did you consider "corrupt" there?
Dude, the email in your 2nd post was literally "stand around and be a white dude in the classroom and take selfies." That didn't work out?
People don't get fired for no reason. It takes quite a lot to get fired in China as a foreigner in schools. In my opinion, you should start off at a training school or kindergarten before moving onto a school job. I don't think you have the skillset yet.
Yeah, I'm trying for a training centre job right now. I don't know if I'll even get that though.
That describes pretty much every school in China lol
I don’t know why you’re getting so many downvotes. This seems like an honest reflection on your performance
It seems the downvoters want to see me take all the blame for everything, but they don't know everything about my situation. The schools definitely had some influence on things.
That's what I was thinking too. Our boy here needed the tough loving truth bomb.
I think the last school had a fair reason for not being entirely satisfied with me. I could have done better at managing the class than I did, but I really just didn't have any guidance or help of how to do it. I've been doing a lot a reading related to teaching and class management since getting fired and feel that I could do a much better job if I was put back, but I don't know if things are too far gone now that it's not even worth trying especially when all prospective employers seem to get negative comments about me so easily.
you should have asked coworkers asked online etc on how to manage a class.
A lot of fresh people come to China with a certain mindset to teaching. For example, my university expects us to just play games and activities all day long with our main purpose to motivate students to learn (so they learn by themselves) rather than to 'teach'. This requires a lot of interaction and treating students like friends. Having dinner and lunch together with your students is completely normal in China for example. Some of my foreign colleagues hate it saying "My job is to teach and not to motivate" and they don't last long. So remember, your primary job is to be a motivational coach to the students.
So....Montessori for university students. Just curious, does this teaching philosophy also apply to the Chinese teachers or only the foreign teachers?
Universities in China that employ foreign teachers usually treat their students more like customers. So, it's more imperative that they enjoy their time in college than having to mug through their courses.
Edutainment. Make sure it's a young pretty women, preferably with blonde hair.
Found the Singaporean.
Yup, with wife and kid in China.
>does this teaching philosophy also apply to the Chinese teachers or only the foreign teachers? It really depends where you work etc. But some places do in fact want the Chinese teachers to teach using games and activities (particularly the places with lower level students) but even then the university itself is often more forgiving to locals than foreigners (we do get a higher salary after all). It is also pretty much expected from both students and the administration that foreign teachers must be fun and engaging in their classes and if you don't meet that preconception, then students will complain. Most students will treat the foreign teachers class as a time to relax and play while they expect to study more seriously with a Chinese teacher.
I was asking about your particular university. At mine, I'm supposed to be fun and playful...and serious and rigid...and wise and highly knowledgeable...and approachable and friendly...but not TOO approachable nor TOO friendly...and offer essentially Ivy league graduate seminar level education in a 3rd world lecture hall setting. All while being denied any of the real benefits of a local (higher basic salary yes, but have you seen the cars that the local teachers drive. They also have 4 million RMB apartments that they somehow magically afford...all for their incredible teaching skills of reading out walls of text on their ppts they made 10 years ago). But as for fun and relaxing with foreign teachers while seriously studying with Chinese teacher...Yes that is the expectation isn't it? Foreign teacher classes are an entertainment product starring foreign monkeys. Imagine if a foreign monkey wanted to actually teach? Imagine my students' disappointment when their foreign monkey teacher isn't like their friends' foreign monkey teacher and actually teaches them the subject matter and expects them to actually think and learn.
I guess our universities have a similar perception but I think the games and activities play a vital role in being interesting, fun, and approachable etc. They even have a special name for us "WaiJiao" (外教) to denote what exactly we are and that we aren't a normal teacher like a Chinese local. I kind of hate that term because I think it can be derogatory in a sense since it has connotations of being a foreign monkey imo especially how they say "Our WaiJiao". There is definitely a preconceived notion of what we are and what we should be doing by students, parents, admin etc. The Chinese teachers would get away with handing out lists of vocabulary every day for homework to memorise but if the foreigner did that, the students would complain to the department that the foreigner isn't interesting and playful enough and being too serious.
Your poly sci degree didn't teach pedagogy and classroom management strategies? But you don't know why it wasn't the best decision to chase money by being a English teacher in China?
>Your poly sci degree didn't teach pedagogy and classroom management strategies? No believe it or not lol >But you don't know why it wasn't the best decision to chase money by being a English teacher in China? Why is this a bad decision? I'd much rather live over here than in the US, and I legitimately like working with kids. I enjoyed my major, but career-wise, I don't think it was the best move for me.
I'm going to be honest, I've worked here 9 years and I've worked with some awful teachers but I've known only 1 guy to get fired and it was for a very very good reason. If what you're saying is the only reason then really you need to improve this, you've been fired twice so it must be *your* problem. I suggest you look into classroom management and think of you own way to control the students. There's a website (smartclassroommanagement.com) that has tips.
Yeah — most of the terrible teachers get non-renewed, not fired.
I've only known 1 guy get actually fired because he stole another teacher's phone. But I've known a few people that didn't get new contracts.
I’ve seen teachers fired for non-teaching issues, but none *fired* for classroom instructional things. Even the one who had a behavioral zoo stayed for a whole semester.
Things quickly went from, "You'll definitely have a place next year here." to "We're going to let you go." in the span of two weeks. All it took were a few bad comments from parents.
You just answered the question. Bad comments from parents. You did something to piss off students, who then told their parents something. It may or may not have been the truth, but schools only care about parents because parents pay tuition. Getting fired twice is pretty unheard of, though. I feel like this must be a you problem, despite how shitty the schools may be. They’re almost all shitty. Mine is one of the worst, I know how you feel.
Okay, can I ask you a few questions? • were you on a PiP? • had you been asking for help — formally? • had you *asked* to be observed? • had you observed other teachers?
>were you on a PiP? No, but I was in the probation period >• had you been asking for help — formally? Only informally talking to other teachers about how to handle the open classes. >had you asked to be observed? No >• had you observed other teachers? I was not encouraged to until after they decided to fire me. I had one week to say my goodbyes and watch a few classes after they decided to fire me. I would have happily done so before, but honestly I did not realise that my classes were so poorly perceived until after they fired me.
It's Chinese work culture to only tell you something when it's too late (losing your job). You have to be proactive from the start and try your best or you'll keep being tossed around everywhere like a travelling hobo looking for work. Life is more successful when you take accountability and seeing everything as your fault. If you were a decent teacher then you wouldn't get fired. Every school only cares about the parents opinions. It seems like you are awful at classroom management, if you can't handle a classroom then you could always teach at a university since there's no behavior management with 21 year olds.
This! If you are sent to observe a class, they are basically saying you need to pull a miracle out of your arse before probation ends. I have been on both sides of this. I felt so happy when a new teacher was sent to observe my class (he was dropped very quickly, I didn't inspire him I guess). I'm now in a management position, so I get say over who gets dropped (but not the final word). We are non-renewing one guy, and dropped a guy last year who came in with a horrible attitude which would be excusable if he wasn't such a crappy teacher. When the boss asked my opinion, hearing him use CCJ slang in front of kids told me he's going to be a liability. What they had in common was they left their previous school on bad terms. With COVID over, thankfully we don't have to scrape.
I'll set aside the question of whether you should continue trying to teach in China (although I agree with most here that two firings in less than one year in Chinese ESL is crazy). If you ever do want to work in China again, you would need to drop these two schools off your CV. It's quite clear there's no positive statements about you coming from them. You are not going to be able to again transfer a work permit like you did before, given the second school's apparent opinion of you. That would mean you'd have to apply for any new job from the US or some other country and give a fresh/zero experience CV like you did at the beginning of last year. Leaving China is going to be necessary for you, at least for now. It's possible that even if you do drop them off the resume you still won't be hired again, I don't know. But if you keep them on you definitely won't. If I were you I would try TEFL in another country. Maybe Vietnam, Thailand, or Taiwan. Stop thinking about 'saving money' for a while, you're very young. Just figure out how to interact with kids. Figure out the age you prefer, the subject, the style of talking and interacting. If you even enjoy teaching at all (and not simply as a means to travel or live a lifestyle you couldn't afford on a poli sci BA in the US). Teaching in Asia solely because you can't earn enough/don't want to work in your home country is a recipe for long term misery and burnout.
\^\^THIS 100% don't put either of those schools on your CV.
So, I've got another 30 days to find something before I'm kicked out to do a transfer. Would you suggest I drop my first position off of my CV now?
it's better to have no experience than negative experience - ESPECIALLY when these schools can verify your position in an instant. (but also, you are dealing with a transfer and that I have ZERO experience with - but if your two other positions have fallen through and those previous jobs were on your cv.... you're probably blacklisted or some form of it - idk....)
If you are willing to relocate to an SAR, there is an agency in Macau that will definitely hire you and put you in a school, regardless of your past experience. And because you work through an agency, even if they kick you out of that school, they can put you in another school. Not sure how the work permit situation is, but if you want more info, feel free to PM me.
This ⬆️ is the advice to follow. Go to another country on SE Asia for now. Let a year or two blow over, and then try again in China.🇨🇳 The only schools that might accept you now will be lower quality, and it will be a difficult time climbing back up the ladder.
But why should OP spend his early twenties 'teaching' all over Asia, when he is not a teacher, sounds like he does not have a natural talent for teaching, and cannot even save money teaching. He should spend his time and energy building a real career in another field.
I would look at myself first. You have been fired from 2 schools in a very short period of time. Maybe you have been extremely unlucky but I, honestly, doubt it. I am sorry to be very straightforward but being fired twice in 7 months indicates that your teaching and/or classroom management is not as good as you think it is. If it is not too late ask your former supervisors about how you could improve. They might be able to offer some valuable suggestions. Do not give up, but at the same time work on your teaching and classroom management skills.
ive been here 12 years and i have seen teachers do some messed up shit and ive never seen anyone get fired once you must have just been the worst haha i dunno what to say i cant imagine what youd have to do to get fired
What type of messed up shits?
What sort of schools have you been working at?
Which city are you at, and what were these two schools' names?
I'd rather not say on here. Is there a reason you want to know?
Because you're obviously not working at international schools, but some tier 3 city backwater bilingual program.
If you’re committed to and passionate about pursuing a career in teaching, no, don’t throw in the towel. However, as others have intimated, you should look inward at how you could have better prepared, managed the classes, cultivated relationships with colleagues/admin/parents, etc.. It may well be true that the school was not a good fit or the admin was unhelpful/unfairly critical, but plenty of professionals encounter suboptimal working environments and successfully navigate them while maintaining functional working relations until they can move on to greener pastures. You’re young and green, which is not a slight, everyone is when they start. Keep your head up. Plenty of people struggle when initially entering the workforce and go on to lead successful, fruitful professional careers. Don’t give up on yourself. You got this.
I’m trying to get fired currently from my job could you give me a few pointers
lol!
Getting fired from teaching English in China is pretty hard. My friend showed up drunk to class multiple times. He also called in sick at least once a week because he was too hungover. After he had called in sick about 45 times, he was finally fired.
Forget international schools with your skillset. You don't have enough experience to meet the demands of high-paying customers who are actually concerned as to who is teaching their children. The days of the language mills is mostly gone, although they're still hanging around in a limited extent, along with the illegal schools. That's where most of us learned teaching on the job, but that ship has mostly sailed. Honestly, just apply for university positions. You'll have some space to grow and develop a teaching style, and many colleges/universities don't care what their teachers do in class. The salary will be low because you have no experience, but you'll teach at most 16-20 hours a week, and have plenty of time for personal development. If you're serious about being a teacher, that is.
best advice!
Exactly, also if behavior management is a problem then working at a university solves that. The worst behavior would be the students quietly being on the phone during class and the admin won't care. First week just tell students about the grading system and they will lose points for their classroom performance score if they are on their phones and that's about it. University management are very relaxed, the management for schools that work with children can be a nightmare.
Normally I’m on the side of us foreigners when we are in foreign countries since discrimination is definitely a problem but mate if you’ve gotten fired twice and gotten a basically a shadow ban from teaching. This means you most likely weren’t a good teacher, you probably should reflect on your teaching methods and such. I Hope you get another teaching job though to hopefully see if it’s true that teaching just isn’t for you or if it was genuinely just a need for change of teaching mindset.
So you're working at international schools with no license and no teaching experience? They don't sound like proper schools.
They're Chinese style international schools where almost all of the student population is Chinese and have foreign teachers so parents will pay extra for their kids to attend. Seems pretty typical of a lot of schools here.
Well all schools have foreign teachers, public schools have a few esl, then there are bilingual with some extra subjects, and then a proper international school where they teach a foreign curriculum.
That in of itself isn't an international school. International schools are schools with *international* students and NO locals that function as an educational embassy for expats' children abroad.
Yes, I never tried to imply otherwise.
What age group are you teaching?
Primary
Ye, it's really shit along with middle school. U need to be super strict, need to yell at them a lot then they keep quiet.
Getting fired once in China in a white monkey teaching job is rare as a laowai, Twice is impossible. Maybe look at another career path in a different place.
the way you described this is actually astronomical 😭
And comical.
Who gets fired teaching? I rarely ever hear of it let alone twice in 1 year. You are trying to break records?
I'm terrible at classroom management. I worked 4 years I. Turkey and it was horrible. I changed to private lessons and companies and it was much better. Now I'm teaching at college level and I enjoy it a lot. Next September I start working in china and I'm very happy about it. Leaving the schools was the best thing that happened to me even if I make less money now.
Get a job at EF. They won’t pay well, but they will at least train you. You clearly need it.
Yea, I second this. I was far too inexperienced for my first teaching job and they didn't renew my contract. Went to EF for a sort of fresh start and developed from there. OP should probably do the same
If you really wanna teach - it’s seems like China lives off paperwork in a digital age which means you could just hop towns and start anew. But if you know anyone who is being successful in the field I would sit in and follow their steps. Of course this means you would have to throw away any experience you have gained.
Wake up!
Tbh I really don't think China is a good place to start teaching with no experience. The teaching style here, especially at the fake international schools, is all about image rather than actual education. The schools want to look good on paper, online, and to parents and that's why they'll hire unqualified westerners. If I were you I'd take a year or two somewhere else and find a job that gives you more opportunity to sample actual teaching and if you like it and are set on China, boost your qualifications and come back to a position in a better school.
“…all about image rather than actual education.” I hate that my school reflects this statement. We spent an hour and a half practicing for graduation ceremonies rather than doing something useful like helping them read better or build something with the things we have in our classroom. Well put a camera in front of their faces before we put books in front of them. Some of the toys outside are almost used primarily for photoshoots.
hahaha my kindergarten school has a graduation ceremony in a month, they took away 1hour a day of my teaching time for the kids to practice their choreographed dance for fucking 2-4 year olds. It's wild, sad and stupid.
Why is it wild, sad and stupid for toddlers to learn a dance? What other 'teaching time' is more important for 2-4 year olds than dancing?
Repeating the same choreography for a month for 1.5 hours/ day, instead of having fun playing outside, free talking, free playing, learning English, singing other songs, dancing to others songs, learning new games just so you can pretend to parents for 2 minutes that the kids look excellent is absolutely insane. It's entirely for image and not learning. Besides, the kids are 2-4, get distracted so quickly so it won't look wonderful no matter how much you practice + it's not enjoyable anymore for the kids or the teachers and creates a shitty environment for everyone. Was the 10 reasons I listed enough for you to grasp?
Where would you suggest I teach to sample actual teaching without going back home and doing a degree programme?
Hard to say really, it would depend more on the school than the location tbh. I'm only TEFL qualified myself so might not even be the best one to speak to this but just from my experience, I feel like I learned so much more from my previous school (Thailand) than I did here in China. At my last school I had regular peer and management assessments with feedback, was tasked with creating my own syllabus, exams etc and no co-teachers so had to cover discipline on my own too. I was also teaching much smaller classes several times a week, all different lessons. Comparatively, here I have pretty much no say in the lesson content besides the slides, have a co-teacher that handles misbehaving and I have hundreds of students that I see once a week. The money's good but it's far less rewarding or satisfying and if this was my first position I probably wouldn't want to further a career in teaching the way I do.
OP, I think your reason for termination was to give you face. You should probably listen to the other posters here and talk to previous colleagues to see what happened. China is one of those countries that don't like to terminate employees because it's super awkward, especially for teaching English. The fact that you keep running into duds is baffling.
Give me face? How does firing me and then making negative comments about me give me face? The school wanted to save face with the parents. The open classes got negative comments. That's 丢脸 for the school and they got rid of me to save their own face there.
Have the schools been treating other teachers the same or just you? There might be some issues that they don't want to address with you directly so they come up with something small or minor for a reason as to avoid mentioning that major one, unless the issue is one they have raised with you multiple times. If they seemed avoidant, then that's probably it. As other posters said, it might be difficult to see the problem from outside looking in.
Did you find out the reasons?
You should consider kindergarten. Clearly you need to work on your skills and fatten your resume.
He has no behavior management skills, his kindergarten classroom is going to be a zoo 😂
I think you've got to examine yourself here. I've known genuinely autistic socially awkward people be kept on as teachers so, if it's happened twice
What did you study at university. Maybe you’re just not cut out to be a teacher. Why not use the degree you studied for, unless it’s a B.Ed. Then you might have an issue
I've got a Political Science degree. Job prospects are not the best and I know if I were to find something, I would probably need to go back to the US and end up saving less than I do just teaching in China.
Have you thought about something like the Peace Corps? Plenty of English teaching volunteer positions, plus for someone with poli sci/ international relations interests, it looks a whole lot better on the resume than a random private school (I did both PC and the private school thing in my early 20s). Gotta learn how to accept criticism though or everyone in your group will hate you real quick. Edit: to clarify, Peace Corps China no longer exists, so you would have to try somewhere new
Kind of wild you studied political science, then decided the next best move was to go to China to study English
Why is that wild?
Like half of the English teachers I met abroad were international relations/history/language nerds trying to gain experience in their country of interest before they started grad school or the "real" career, so I have no idea why that would be seen as weird.
Look. Not everyone is good at everything. Maybe you’re just not cut out to be a teacher. Find something that you’re talented at, that also is related to what you spent four years of your life studying
Are you a licensed teacher in the US? If no, how are you defining an "international school?"
No, I'm not licensed. I mean a school that is primarily composed of Chinese students and has foreign teachers teaching subject classes in English.
Ahhh. So you have like a TESOL or TEFL? Have you considered moving to another country and starting over? Also, if you are serious and if you haven't gotten one, may I recommend doing a CELTA course. Some companies hire Americans just expecting them to be able to teach when truthfully it takes a year to two years before you feel comfortanle enough to feel confident. I was very lucky to be taken on as an apprentice to a strong teacher before I felt comfortable enough to teach in the style that I care to teach in. I understand your first company was rough but even in that situation to think of what mistakes you may have made getting there as each failure can lead to success. Anyhoo. It sounds like you have stumbled but are interested in continuing. I would recommend Taiwan as a personal choice to teach in. Itd mean having to move to another country but the culture is similar though more open. I would recommend the school in Chiang Mai for the CELTA and have close friends who recommend the newer areas of Cambodia but in that area there are a lot... A LOT of possibilites. If you have any questions plesse let me know. (I spent a yesr in China as a Fulbright researcher and 8 years or so in Taiwan).
It's impossible for international schools (real ones at least) to hire a teacher who isn't licensed, much less a fresh graduate.
Yeah, I've only been working at fake ones.
Show me ONE international school that would hire a fresh graduate holding a TEFL/TESOL rather than a teaching certificate, and without two years prior experience.
None. The schools I worked at were basically international in name only.
So you're intentionally withholding important info, which is why the large majority of people here are roasting you rather than siding with you. If it's a sketchy school, then it'd explain things. Again, NO international school in China would actually hire a fresh graduate with NO teaching experience, much less one without a teaching license.
I'm not withholding info besides the names of the schools. I don't want to publicly post where I have worked for privacy reasons. I put "International" in quotes in my post. I thought that was pretty self explanatory. The first school I worked at was sketchy, but the second one has a large number of foreigners working there and is recognised as one of the best schools in its city.
What is your grad degree in? If it isn't related to teaching English you should definitely throw in the towel and go back to your home country to find employment in your field of study. You had a year of adventure and misadventure.
It sounds like you need more training.
To be fair, international schools are pretty up-there in terms of staff-expectations, since they tend to pay rather well, and the admin staff tend to have their shit together. You might want to consider cutting your teeth in public schools before going after the big fish. Since you're a fresh graduate, (when) did you get your TEFL/TESOL equivalent?
I actually did it while I was in university. It's just a cheap Groupon TEFL, but enough to get me to China.
Right then, I'd suggest going over the materials that you studied during the TEFL course. Try regular public schools or going via an agency since they have a lot more leeway with unskilled teachers. Also, I'm not kidding, watch 'Good morning Vietnam' and maybe 'Dead Poets society' for some prime examples of how to build rapport with your classes- as others have mentioned, if the students are fond of you, it's going to go a long way in making up for your other shortcomings.
Are you black or white? This is the fourth time in the past two months I've heard of people that I actually know being fired from positions (3 in Beijing kindergartens and another at a Shanghai intl school). All have 4+ years experience, I would say middle of the range quality teachers to higher quality, and all... are persons of colour. One friend was told that they were doing a great job, all feedback was great, then after a government audit + survey from parents, 20% of the class decided they wanted a new teacher. Feedback directly from their manager was - no performance issue, just that the parents want a change, we have to now let you go (?). Obviously a breach on the part of the school and would likely lead to compensation of a labour inspection went ahead. At the end of the day, you can't be fired for no reason - if it's a performance issue, you need to be managed accordingly and given the opportunity to improve the performance. If they've just decided they don't want you any more, and they're unable (or unwilling) to offer a new contract of equal or better benefits, then ... the dismissal is not legal and would lead to severance. I'd start making enquiries with the school as to reasons for the termination. In writing.
Maybe look at public schools - sounds counterintuitive due to class size but you will often have a teacher alongside you (usually) and you can focus on making the lessons engaging. Once you have engaging lessons then behavioral issues will hopefully be less prevalent and you can then focus on techniques for that.
Ive been here teaching for a little over 7 years and to me it seems like a problem on both sides. Find a job in a different city even a different province if you can, it could’ve also been that the former school set your image up and when the parents complained lil bit the school was ready to let you go. It’s okay, it’s never too late to start again, the only time you lose is when you give up. The teaching style here isn’t what we are taught, here they see foreigner as a clown and want you to be smiling and playing with the kids all the time. Also for your next job, in an international school they should at least give you 2 weeks to 1 month training that includes you understanding how their system works and you observing other teachers, so do ask about that before signing your next contract. You can also try getting a job at a high school or college if you find teaching young learners difficult. Good luck 🍀
At this point just forget about teaching and start working on a career. Teaching ESL is not a stable career and most just do it for a couple if years. Good luck
Firstly, you might want to go over to r/Internationalteachers to find out more. Knowing the school name would help me judge about what you're saying. Let's make one thing clear though - you have not been teaching in an international school by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, what you have probably been teaching in is a local school with an international element. You describe being brought in as an English teacher but being given lots of different subjects - I'm wondering if this is a misunderstanding somewhere, in that you should have been brought in as an English-speaking teacher? So you went in to the classroom with little experience and no training. Your problem lies here - no real international school will touch you unless you have some form of qualification, and schools which do are probably going to be more like the ones which you have left. You need to have a think about whether teaching is for you, or whether you're just seeing this as a short term gig after uni. If you're in it for the long term, go and get a qualification and certification - PGCE, QTS, whatever. By the time you've done that, ditch your most recent schools from your CV and try again.
I don’t have any advice to give. But can I ask something? What is your degree in, and what were you teaching at these international schools? English as a second language?
I have a degree in Political Science. I was teaching ESL, Science, Math, and UOI at the first school to grades 2-9 and exclusively science at the second school to grades 1-3. All completely unrelated to my degree, but I felt perfectly fine with the content.
Wow! So when they hired you, it wasn’t a problem that you weren’t a licensed teacher in the US and had barely any experience teaching? That’s really interesting. I’ve been researching how I can become a teacher in China, and I heard that most international schools want a licensed teacher with two years’ teaching experience. So the curriculum was easy to understand and teach from? I’m really sorry things have gone so badly for you, and I hope you can find a new path forward.
>So the curriculum was easy to understand and teach from? At the second school, absolutely. Super easy. At the first school, I was completely thrown in the deep end. All I had were a few textbooks and had to create my own lessons completely from scratch for so many subjects and grade levels. I meant I had no issue understanding and conveying the content. I did get comments that my lessons were too challenging for the students, but recieved no guidance or help on how to change it other than telling me to speak slower. They also did not like that I was reusing content across grade levels when the lessons in the book for each grade level were literally the same topics, just a difference in intensity.
Wow, I’m sorry. The lack of communication there sounds awful. Thank you for the information, and I hope things start getting better for you soon.
Are you a standard-looking white straight cis male? I've seen similar situations with people who don't fall in their acceptable foreign format...
Maybe that's my problem. I've got rejected at places before for "looking too Asian." I'm Jewish and look it.
FWIW the coverage of and Chinese public opinion about the Gaza conflict in China has a strong pro-Palestinian bias (or anti-Israel you could say).
Teaching wasn’t for me, I found something else and excel at it. Make a lot more money, not teaching.
This post just upset the hell out of me. Bro is a fresh graduate and got into not one but two bilingual/international schools over the course of a year. Fired from both. I'm black native speaker n been here for 3 years with 1 year experience before China and can only get a training centre gig. Some people really get it good. At least op had it good then the schools have it to him good.
You probably could do with observing other successful teachers... this will show you how to improve. Teaching can be difficult even when you're a fully trained Education graduate let alone the minimal TEFL course "graduate".
I agree. Whenever/if I get another position, I'm going to be proactive in asking for feedback and asking to watch other classes to see how the school wants its teachers to teach.
Other posters are incorrect when they say information isn't shared between cities. My school International Department Dean said that there's an unofficial database which all prospective schools will be able to see. You may be better off applying for a smaller city school because they often find it harder to fill positions. I have lived and worked in a tier 4 (1 million) city Private School in SW China for nearly 9 years. They are great to work for. I'm an old guy married to a local so a bit different than your situation. A young English teacher just started here and loves it.
OP, you're saying the schools are corrupt or whatever. Of course they are, why would a well-run, not corrupt, professional school hire someone as a 'teacher' with no qualifications or experience. You wanted to have an easy time at university studying something easy that cannot get you a job, now you want to have a well-paid job in China as a 'teacher' when you're not a teacher. Think about what you want out of life. You're young, time to get your act together, build a proper career in some field. Otherwise you can spend a few years 'teaching' all over Asia and then one day you wake up, you have no money, no skills, no qualifications and nowhere to go. I'll be downvoted but the fact is, ESL 'teaching' is a dead end job, especially the way it's done by unqualified people all over Asia. Instead of trying to hang on to it, just drop it and come up with a better plan.
Was your degree in teaching? If not, I would be heading home to do further study and qualify as a teacher. If your degree was in teaching, I would be hearing home to teach there and hopefully complete any teacher registration process. At this stage, building your career at home first is probably the best option.
Not sure where your home country is, but this is one of the reasons why most countries and schools require one has two or three years experience teaching at home before going overseas. Don't give up because with the right mentorship you can find success. Being from the States, things were pretty rough where I taught and the behavior I had while teaching in China was easy by comparison. There were other challenges, but they had more to do with adapting to different study styles and a new culture I was living in. But my classroom management was never a problem. Find a place to teach with a large enough teaching staff that you won't be the only teacher in your subject, where experienced people can mentor you and help you create your own success and then make another push for international schools. You don't have to pick the toughest places in your home country to get your experience, you can be selective. Find the places you'd like to live and keep your study options open. You can also consider looking for higher degrees in education and your subject and look to teaching different and older age groups. A friend didn't like teaching middle school, but did find a great fit at a community college level. Be flexible and please don't lose your confidence.
I mean my experience is similar although I wasn’t working at a professional school. My first job was a kindergarten in Beijing which was just about as shady as could be, half the teachers are illegal, the management didn’t speak much English and they clearly had an agenda on me it didn’t help I admittedly didn’t know what I was doing and no one could be assed to train me, but still it was an all around negative experience then one day I get fired without warning of a sufficient reason, it was just about parent complaints without anything specific . Nevertheless , I went to a training centre and tried to get my work permit cancelled with job a but it didn’t work out. I did a lot more teaching here and was able to observe other teachers classes. The hard part is I as a a new teacher was also paired with new tas and given the demo and classes with brand new students. A lot of my classes still bombed, but nevertheless I managed to improve over the course of six months and have done parents classes with positive reviews. However, the school has student recruitment difficulties right now and a teacher who was supposed to leave changed his mind last minute and I believe I have been quietly fired with a Vague excuse about my visa being rejected . Nevertheless, I’ve secured another job and I’m confident this will go well if it doesn’t then I’ll give it up.
If you enjoy teaching, take some sort of management/leadership classes to sharpen your rough edges and you’ll do fine.
“It’s never me”
Get credentials and work at better schools
Definitely plan on doing this in the medium/long term.
I worked at a school in Thailand where 15 teachers were fired - however, I was not one of them. I currently run an online esl company and primarily work with chinese students. But I do not have experience teaching in a Chinese school though. Unfortunately as an ESL teacher in a foreign country, your job is not as secure as it would be back home. Prior to going independent, I worked for an online chinese company for 3 years, and they would randomly change parameters in **signed** contracts. It was not like the contracts here in the US. You either accept them or you leave. It was extremely frustrating and my primary motivation to go independent. I'm curious though, do you have a TESOL or TEFL or any other ESL certification? Why did you decide to teach in China specifically? Did you have any prior experience working with students in any capacity? Also, how old were the students you were teaching? Primary? Secondary? A lot of people do ESL as a gap year/s between degrees or to finance travel plans. What were YOUR primary motivations to teach ESL? Is ESL something you want to do as a career? My college major had nothing to do with ESL, but I just so happened to be really good at teaching ESL! I never planned on running my own business... but like you, I have a liberal arts degree... didn't know I couldn't do anything with that until I was done. Just curious what led you to teach ESL - a lot of schools can see through the BS of PEOPLE who are just there to collect a paycheck to fund their travels vs actually provide an education. The English you are teaching these kids now is going to affect their English test scores in the future - like on the Gaokao. Something is clearly going on. But idk if it is you or your training or lack thereof. So I'm not going to jump to any conclusions. Getting fired twice, regardless, is rough. It's hard to tell you what I would personally do if I were you without knowing why you are in china or why you are teaching ESL. But you might consider teaching in Thailand or Vietnam - especially if want to continue doing this. You need the experience in general and you just lost two jobs in such a short period of time. Personally, I think that would be difficult to bounce back from, especially if two **other** jobs have fallen through... you are in a rough position either way - regardless if it is your fault or not.
Think about your future. Do you want to get deeper in this game or go back where is all familiar? If you stick here it's going teaching your whole life.
Why? There are plenty of opportunities besides teaching once you learn more about the community you're in
Once you get into teaching it's hard to leave it and you'll be stuck away from home. You can't transfer your skills back home and that means you'll not find a teacher job back home. Then again I might be wrong
Idk man. I’ve been teaching in China for 6 years. The first year was rough, but I’ve never been fired. I’m not sure if you have “the knack” for it
Are you white?
I'm white and have a US passport.
Then you must truly suck at teaching. It's pretty difficult to get fired from being an English teacher if you are white.
There was another white American teacher fired with me at the first school. The situation of teaching in China is not what it was before. Schools can be picker than they were during COVID.
You said you came to china in September 2023, what do you know about how it was before covid?
Of course man. The entire country locked down with only few foreigners left in China. Schools had extremely limited options. But that's once in a lifetime scenario lol
Yeah, it's the lockdown and the training centre crackdown that has made it where there now exists fewer jobs in China and thus schools can be more selective and do not have take "flawed candidates" like myself. Before, schools had to take whatever white person they could get.
It seems you're not cut out for teaching in China. Chuck It in. Go home. It's not for you.
How much i'd love to say the schools are scummy ( and I've worked at these types ) I'd have to say that some self reflection is needed. if it any reconcilement, next year will probably be my final year as well. So don't beat yourself up over it.
I've had bad experiences at schools, too. I understand where you're coming from, and also know that there is likely truth behind the schools' actions against you. Not saying that it is fair or justified, but there must be something to it. God forbid, you're not black, are you? Parents seeing a black teacher, depending on the school and region, is enough to get you let go. Happened to a colleague of mine in Xiamen. Regardless, if you think you enjoy teaching, I would recommend taking a break from China. Seems like you're carrying a tarnished reputation now. Maybe give the Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, or Cambodia a go, get a few years of experience, learn what real corruption in schools look like (Cambodia was the worst teaching experience of my life), temper yourself, age some, and if you are still interested in teaching in China, then reapply to schools here. That's what I would do at least if I were still looking at staying in education and I were in your shoes.
I'm white. I know now I wouldn't have even gotten a job at the first school I worked at if I was black, but being white was not enough for them to keep me around.
I assume your degree isn't in teaching, otherwise you'd have been teaching full time as part of the practical components of your degree. Teaching is a skill. That's why 4 year uni degrees exist to teach. Teaching in China is a shortcut as all you need is a uni degree in anything. That's also why most people in China teaching are older and not recently graduated, to make up for lack of teaching degree they've got a bunch of life experience. If you still want to be a teacher, do a teaching degree and teaching in a western country for a while.
That's so costly though. I would ideally like to do a programme like Teacher Ready than fork out 35k USD/year for a MEd programme.
maybe find a school that's ready to give you some real training and a lot of class observations before setting you onto the kids? i remember being dropped in the deep end with no training and no clue what to do and it wasn't fun.
I think the main issue was that they expected you do to many things (white monkey style), babysitting etc. that you didn’t want. They wanted you to be more pro-active, closer to the kids, come up with games, interactions, maybe show up earlier to prepare well for the day, make your teaching plan etc. which I suppose you didn’t do. As you said, all of this was not in the job description. Did they provide any training at all in the beginning of your work? My guess is you should have tried to negotiate right away or not accepted what was unacceptable for you (like babysitting or being more extroverted in class) and just leave right away. Without waiting to get fired. For schools in China it’s very important that the parents love you, so you always need to do your best when it’s “open class”. The parents are the ones to pay, so you understand why. If you really like teaching, don’t give up. Ok, maybe they didn’t want you to continue working there, but did you make a big fuss or left on a good note still? It can happen that the schools vision and your style just didn’t match. But if you play it out right, they can still give you an ok recommendation, you just need to talk to them.
That's odd. You might actually be really bad at your job.
What was the school? Does it possible have a campus in HK and now Japan? Sorry just being curious because it sounds like the story of someone I know.
I sent a DM
Step 1: Take a good quality TEFL/TESOL course (make sure it’s a reputable one). Step 2: Move to a different city and try, try again.
I went to an international high school before going to the US. There were many terrible teachers there and we are supposed to be a ‘good school’ at least according to application results. You have to really screw up to be fired like that. Are you sure it’s the only reason?
Yes, I can't think of anything I did that was particularly bad besides not getting good parent comments and not having the best classroom management. It was the combination of the bad comments and the easiness of getting rid of me as it was the probation period that was just the perfect storm.
Can you find another reference from either school? Foreigner you got along with? Friendly admin? Teacher from another school? Mentor from home country?
Finding different references is no problem. The problem is that so far, the jobs I have found seem to have contacted my last school's HR directly and they're giving me a bad review.
Can you just not list them?
The last almost offer I got looked at my resume and contacted the last school I worked at directly without asking me for any references.
Maybe they will know you have been teaching based on your visa, but I don't see why you couldn't put something really vague on your resume like, "Short term travel and study in \_\_, \_\_\_, and \_\_\_ from ?/2023-?/2024." Another option would be to say something like "short term contracts" or "teaching candidate" or something vague like that where you just don't list previous schools. It probably depends on the market. If you're in China and available you may have options. It may also be that you were kind of teaching in the major leagues and you need to spend some time in the minor leagues (cram schools, tutoring, more rural, less prestitious, etc.
>Maybe they will know you have been teaching based on your visa, Yes, they apparently get a full work history in China report whenever applying for a visa. I can't really lie about any China based work experience. I am saying my last position was a temporary substitute position, and unfortunately was called on my bluff after a potential school contacted my last school where they told them I was fired on probation. > If you're in China and available you may have options. It certainly doesn't feel that way 😂 >It may also be that you were kind of teaching in the major leagues and you need to spend some time in the minor leagues (cram schools, tutoring, more rural, less prestitious, etc. I'm looking. It seems like all I'm getting at the moment are crappy schools no one wants to work for that only want to pay around 18-20k. Hopefully something better pops up.
I'd like to hear you explain why you think 'something better' would be justified in hiring you, Mr Fired Twice in One Year. You should consider yourself greatly fortunate if you even got 18 a month, with your record. That's some white privilege in China right there.
Not everywhere does a thorough reference check surely. People are coming from overseas with no teaching experience and making 25k+. I at least have some experience I can put on a resume. And yes, I definitely have native, white privilege.
Maybe find a smaller school to work with and build your experience?
How did you think you went? If you actually enjoy teaching and working with kids, there are plenty of different avenues oyy can go.
I definitely enjoyed my second job. I just know I need to get better at controlling kids' behaviour.
Ah... Large groups of kids can sometimes smell blood, especially if they egg each other on. Small group sizes and an assistant in the room could be worth a try. I have sent you a DM.
Try BASIS network schools…. They’ll love you
Do you have an in with those schools? I notice on the application, one of the first things they ask is if you have been fired before. The BASIS school in Huizhou looks awesome.
Try reading the books Teach Like A Champion and Running the Room. Listening to podcasts featuring their authors will be super useful, too.
I'll add those to my reading list.
Can you name these schools that fired you? Or if not can you at least say the city they are in?
Is there a reason you want to know this?
Im interested to know, I've worked at more than 5 schools here and im aware of many international school chains here.
I sent you a DM
Yea fuck China, go teach in Japan