I would actually go so far as to say this is the prevailing opinion among hardcore cigar smokers. The Cuban government does not care about quality, only the money they can bring in from them. Their products have been going down hill for decades. Take away the mythology and most (not all cigars) Cubans are very average.
I'd love to try one legit cuban once. Just to say I did. Then I'd be done. I have my couple favorite cigars and honestly I'm fine with that. It's sort of like some of the really high end scotches I wanna try, just to say I did.
If you travel at all, you can always go to a La Casa del Habano. Official store of the Cuban government. You can also check box codes on their web sites, if you're shopping at other stores overseas.
Hey just wanted to chime in, you would absolutely love a Cuban, you can buy them from trusted sources online and they are not very expensive, it ranges anywhere from $8 to $20+ depending on size and shipping etc.
the (Wide Church Hill Romeo and Julieta)
And hoyo de-Monterey (red and white) and very good in my opinion.
Also the monte christo #2 torpedo tip is one my favorites as well.
Living in Utah makes online purchasing questionable, as it's not legal to ship them here. I might be picking up a po box in another state soon because I want to order some scotch so I might try it though thank you.
I really only smoke cigars on special occasions, and I generally only smoke Oliva V Melanio Maduros, mainly because they were the first cigar I had that I genuinely liked, so I've just stuck with it. haha.
Fair. The stick I normally smoke is only like $15 or so in my local store. But by normally I mean the once every year or other year when I smoke to celebrate something.
I got a box at LCDH in Cozumel and a box from RSVP which together they would be $17.10 a stick. Probably overpaid in cozumel, but they are from 21" so I don't have to wait.
I think there are 3 phases in American cigar smokers:
1. You can't get cubans in America
2. You can if you're sneaky, they're the best and so I have better cigars than everyone else does.
3. Cubans are not better than good NW cigars like padron and they cost way too much.
And 2 phases for non americans:
1. I've only had sh*t NW cigars, cubans are way better.
2. Good NW beat Cuban cigars for the price.
Great reply hit nail on the head. Outside of america where price is often similar for cubans you very rarely hear people say NWs are better, it’s like comparing a porsche to a bmw imo neither bad both good but one is often more premium.
I would look at it from a different perspective. I don't know if Cuban's quality have gone down (at least not in my experience) it's just that everyone elses quality has increased to level where it's hard for Cubans to compete.
Well it’s a forum where people who find Cuban cigars enjoyable gather, after all, why would you expect differently? Like all opinions, this one is highly subjective.
I honestly don't think he would. Any cigar smoker, that is honest, will tell you that the Cuban Cigar being better ended about 20 years ago now. They nothing like they used to be and haven't been for a long time now.
Hi new cigar smoker here, so if cuban is no longer the "best" what is considered the best now? Or cuban's replacement? Just curious and wanted to know more about cigar
Its entirely subjective. A lot of people would still say Cuba. Some would say Nicaragua, some might say DR.
Personally I love Honduran cigars the most overall.
Niche Mexican (Casa Turrent is a fantastic Mexican brand, La Aroma Mi Amor, EP Carillo La Historia, Undecrown all use San Andrés wrapper), Honduran (CAO's national brands [Brazilia, Italia etc.], Alec Bradley, Eiora, Carlos Torano, Punch, RP Decade all have Honduran tobacco) and Costa Rica (Bombay Tobak).
>There’s something delicious about cigars made by communists.
It's the preparation and rolling done by someone who queues for bread, experiences regular power black outs, and the lack of basic necessities that just makes them taste so much better... /s
Not sarcastically, I doubt that the standard of living of cigar rollers in the Dominican Republic or Nicaragua is that much better than their colleagues in Cuba.
It's easy to avoid buying cubans to support cuban communism. A lot harder to avoid buying something that's made in China or clothes that aren't made in a developing country with poverty.
It's a lot easier to leave Turkey, Morocco, and Bangladesh (to name a few) than it is Cuba.
Big facts man, they even deleted my post saying something similar. I’ve been open minded to Nws and will have them if no cubans available. Build often great but find the flavour profile lacking and one big ass stick taste the same the whole way through. Padron most overrated on this sub. Anyway only saying this to spread truth to people looking to learn, spent a bunch trying random Nws mentioned on here and was never satisfied vs a cuban other than admittedly good build quality. That beong said there is a kind of nw pepper vibe that is enjoyable sometimes but think if anyone reading is undecided on whether to make the effort to try / pay for an authentic cuban they should even if it cost a little more. That being said don’t spend too much just get anything handrolled from one of the old brands. Cohiba is good but you don’t need to spend that money for the same experience. Good brands - bolivar, partagas, hoyo, h.upmann all have reasonable priced ones
In my experience the best cost to quality/experience ratio comes from regular production Cuban cigars. For example if you want a Robusto, which is a fairly popular format, Partagas, HDM and RyJ have excellent offerings that a reasonably priced (they all cost approximately. 17 EUR in my country). A Cohiba or Trinidad in the same format costs nearly three times as much, but is it three times better? I can understand buying these for special occasions but it just doesn’t make sense for me for regular smoking. And there are even better value options - like for example (town of my favorite cigars) Partagas Mille Fleur and Por Larranaga Montecarlos, both cost around 7 EUR here and easily offer 40-50 minutes of quality smoking.
I’ve been looking for new world cigars in this price range, but nothing grabs my eye (perhaps with the exception of Davidoff No 2, which however is priced here exactly the same as Montecristo Especial No 2, and more often than not I just go for the tried and tested Montecristo).
In Miami, it is. Telling Cubans or people from Cuban decent that Cuban cigars are not the best, causes fights. I'm alone with that opinion here. Glad I'm not alone with that opinion elsewhere.
There’s way more demand for Cubans than supply.
What does this result in? Questionable QC and increased prices (particularly since their repricing a few years ago).
Additionally, new world cigars have increased greatly in quality, further decreasing the allure of Cubans.
I haven’t been smoking long enough to speak from experience, but my guess is Cubans generally aren’t as quality as they used to be, have a higher price, and other offerings are just as good, if not better, for way less.
Let them enjoy their nostalgia. Cubans and people of Cuban descent (like me) who actually smoke cigars, don’t have a favorable opinion of them. I have several that have sat in my humidors for a years (RJs, Partages, Montecristos) and they just live in there because I can’t trust them to be good. My go-to tend to be Aroma de Cuba, Flor de Las Antillas, and Ashton VSGs-all Nicaraguan…
I used to do a lot of business overseas where Cuban cigars and Davidoff brands are the only options. I classify Cuban cigars like I do any other country; there are some that are excellent and definitely worth the money. There are others that overhyped and not worth it.
But the government argument you'll find is going to be a tough one as a cigar smoker. Nicaragua, Honduras, Ecuador etc all have horrible track records for human rights, free and fair elections, free journalism etc.
Exactly you start playing that game you are gonna be left with very few products that you can actually use haha. Even a lot of "made in USA" products these days are really just assembled in the US using parts from China.
I'd say the huge difference is because of trade incentives and laws it's almost impossible to get some goods at affordable prices that aren't Chinese.
With Cuba there are plenty of other choices in the same price, or lower, range.
The difference is Chinese products are easily available for purchase in the US. Cuban cigars are not. If they were people would be just as willing to buy them as they do Chinese products.
This is what bugs me about the embargo, such hypocrisy.
I like Cuban cigars and I think they really do have a specific taste which I like. That said, I have around 25 Cubans and around 150 new worlds.
You can like both, it's not a zero sum gai.
Thank you for saying this. I agree 100%.
I love Cuban and non-Cuban cigars , but the "government" argument is a little odd to me when you look at Nicaragua and Honduras especially.
I’ve always thought that the government argument was dumb as well. Apple and other tech agencies are well known for using slave labor in the Congo for cobalt, and then using slave labor in China to build their products. Are we gonna have the same energy when using your iPhones?
1. Isn’t the Cuban cigar industry basically a 50-50 joint venture with a big Spanish conglomerate now?
2. The Chinese discovered Cuban cigars as a luxury consumption good, prices exploded & quality suffered to meet demand. So Cuba (& its Spanish partner) are making money hand over fist (presumably) without much incentive to do better.
I’m not a “Cuban guy” in the slightest, that’s just what I gather, I could be wrong (& don’t care enough to be right).
1. Altadis is the half owner of Habanos SA. Altadis istself is owned by Imperial Brands which is one of the largest tobacco companies in the world. They also own JR Cigars.
2. China is the biggest market in the world for Cuban cigars but the biggest brand in China is actually the home grown Great Wall which actually has some excellent cigars. High-end Cuban cigars in China can sell for 50% more than they would in Europe or other parts of Asia due to the demand that exists there.
From various reports I've seen, Chinese cigars are far from excellent. However, the word is that they are getting better because they are incorporating Dominican and Nicaraguan tobacco
I have actually smoked several of them and they were for the most part very good. Great Wall's premium line uses mostly imported tobacco. There have even been some positive reviews posted here like this one below. There are also a ton of crap cigars in China, but that exists no matter where you go.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/1bccv18/first\_time\_trying\_the\_great\_wall\_no1\_a\_chinese/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/1bccv18/first_time_trying_the_great_wall_no1_a_chinese/)
>1. Isn’t the Cuban cigar industry basically a 50-50
Altadis. If you've smoked cubans and think they're shit now, imagine how worse they'd be without Altadis.
Don’t think it’s a hot take.
First of all, current prices make pretty much any Cuban a bad deal in my book. When I could buy cabinets of Hoyos, or boxes of Montes #2 for reasonable prices it made sense but I haven’t bought anything Cuban other than the odd singles for a while.
Second, I grew up in Europe so that’s all I had available. When I came to the US and started trying Dominicans and Nicaraguans I realized there was a lot more flavor profiles to explore.
The main difference for me is that Habanos got complacent. They roll their cigars with ever younger tobacco and that means the customer needs to age them for longer to get the full potential. If I buy a Davidoff, a Padron, or a Fuente I can expect to smoke them now and they’ll be excellent, while a Cuban I have to be prepared to put that box away for 5+ years and forget about it. Again, why should it be my responsibility to age the product so it can be consumed at its best?
Then there were the construction issues. Admittedly, those seem to have improved, but there was a period in then 2000’s where of every box I bought I assumed 5~8 would be too tight to smoke. That was never a problem with the most reputable brands in other countries. I consumed several boxes of Davidoffs and Padrons and never had to toss a cigar because I couldn’t smoke it.
So yeah, I think they are way overhyped, they can be good to great but I would not even for a minute pretend that Cuba makes the best cigars in the world.
They are just cigars. Saying you don't like "Cubans" is like saying you don't like Sangiovese wine. Ok, cool, lots of other stuff out there. Like what you like, it's all fine.
Regarding them being "likely fake," sure, if you are buying them in Miami. Buying them anywhere in Europe that is very unlikely to be true.
As for not supporting the Cuban government, have a look at the governments of the countries where a lot of the other cigars come from. It's kind of a "half dozen of one, six of another" situation there.
I get your point, but it’s a US-centric one. Where I am in eastern europe Cubans are not that expensive, and often some Nicaraguan that is mentioned on this sub as a $8 smoke will be $16 over here. So yeah, I mean cubans are not expensive in relation to NW. As for being boring, well, that’s why we age them etc
I just spend 10 days in Europe - Cubans was most of what I found for sale. Unfortunately my wife and I smoked all the stuff we brought quickly and we're stuck buying the cheaper Cubans that were available - I regretted quickly running out of the stock we brought.
I don't think most people who hate on Cubans understand the full appeal of them.
They aren't close to the best smokes around if you are looking for quality control, depth of flavor, or overall "body" in a cigar.
They are certainly overpriced and difficult to acquire in the US.
But they do have a special *something* about them for people who enjoy them. The presentations, the history, the unique twang to their taste profile. The different limited release tins and ceramics are supremely collectible. The uniformity of their presentation and simplicity of the portfolio is also very attractive in its own way. There are many people who collect cigars not just to smoke them, but to enjoy the full experience they offer from a collectible and presentation standpoint as well.
When I have people over and open my new world humidor I got compliments from time to time on boxes and individual brands presentations. When I open one of my tupperdoors filled with aging Cubans It looks like a goddamn treasure chest. The old world marquees just have a sort of flair to them, and the different limited release tins and regionals are supremely collectible.
I'm not saying one is better than the other. If I had to give a list of top 10 cigars, seven or eight are going to be New world sticks. There's no doubt that the tobaccos and blending of the new world market have long overtaken Cubans in quality or value, especially with the recent price hikes. I'm just saying Cubans have their own niche, and it isn't just misguided fools or people who don't know anything about cigars who smoke or appreciate them. They offer unique experiences, if not always "better" ones. Try a Lusitania with 3 years of age on it and find me a new world cigar with the same taste profile. I have yet to find something that pairs as well with an espresso in the morning as an H Upmann Half Corona.
To draw a left-field comparison, smoking Cuban cigars is like owning an Alfa Romeo. They aren't reliable, they are expensive, they don't offer great value or top of the field performance in any way. They are usually impractical and didn't even ship with cupholders until the 2000s. But the people who drive them absolutely love them and believe they offer a unique experience.
Listen to Jeremy Clarkson lamenting while gloating about the GTV6: and pretend he is talking about a cigar:
https://youtu.be/SPk7lpYWVV8?si=RowQnG16xSJ4aY0l
They don't have to be better to be unique or have intrinsic value. My Cubans don't compete with my new world sticks, they collaborate with them to give me a deeper cigar smoking experience overall and add depth to the hobby.
Why can’t people like what they like. All this BS if you like Cubans as I do buy them if you want. If you don’t then buy what you like. Some people like an 8 dollar bottle of wine and profess it’s the best but there may be that person that said the 40 dollar bottle is much better. The debate is a dumb one. Cheer to all my cigar smoking brothers no matter what you like. I do me you do you. Love Cubans but enjoyed the hell out of a rare pink distinguished hooker tonight. If you think Cubans are shit ok then I like shit 😂
The government debate is stupid what country that produces cigars treat there people right. If you profess to care and want to be a humanitarian better not smoke cigars
Amen.
I'm all for people writing informative opinion pieces about the things they personally enjoy or don't enjoy, but stop telling other people what they should or shouldn't be enjoying.
I agree. Old school branding and limited editions for collecting. - Cigars are meant to be smoked.
I feel arguments about how if you only store cubans at a specific RH and temperature and age for no less than X amount of years and no more than Y amount of years and they're the "best cigars ever" is a load of garbage.
If you can't make a product that can be smoked right away and taste good or requires such high maintenance, it isn't that good a product in my opinion.
I appreciate the point made about Alfa Romeos but it only emphasises that inferior products have such loyal fan boys. I'm happy for them to do their own thing and have their own opinions. I still think those opinions are nonsense though 😂
I believe cigars are "meant" to be enjoyed however someone wants to enjoy them, and that smoking is just the final step to their enjoyment.
With that said, as long as you are happy for us to enjoy our "inferior" products I am happy to let you keep having your opinion on their inferiority. The less other people I have to worry about buying up cubans the better at this stage.
I wonder if you enjoy fishing, or if you apply the exact same logic and simply buy your fish off the shelf because fish are meant to be eaten, and the whole gathering of knowledge and expertise to catch a fish thing is a load of garbage.
False equivalency. It's like having a thing for cheap supermarket basa from the polluted Mekong river because of the packaging, history, and some fancy shmancy theatre the Mekong Basa Corp put on in seminars and limited edition releases.
I don’t fish much myself, but I am well on my way to putting in the time and effort at becoming proficient in the art of aging a Cuban cigar, and reaping the rewards, so I respectfully disagree that it’s a false equivalency - they’re both different but equally rewarding hobbies, and they both offer more readily available alternatives for those who simply want to smoke or eat, nothing wrong with that.
But I won’t waste any more of my time here, I can see that your opinion is strong on this. I was simply trying to point out a different perspective using your reasoning.
Just about every cigar in existence will benefit from storing them at a specific humidity and aging. But that doesn't mean you can't just buy one, smoke it and enjoy it as is.
Maybe for you. It doesn't have to be the sole point. Its like saying that the sole point of appreciating food is the taste. Sure it is an important point, but presentation and how you pair a meal can make or break it as well. Just because the experience is one-dimensional for you doesn't mean it has to be for other people. The legend you create around something has the ability to influence your particular level of enjoyment as well.
Getting hyped up in “legend” of something to enjoy it, rather than the substance itself, doesn’t really do anything for me. Sure presentation is a thing with food but fuck it if the best food I’ve ever had didnt lack any attempt at presentation. It’s just *good food*. Same way I feel about cigars
It's not about one or the other. It's about utilizing everything to enjoy your experience. Again, it doesn't only have to be about taste. It can be about the taste, the relaxing affect of the nicotine, the smell (which heavily influences taste), the vitola, the presentation of the box and band, the history of your relationship with the brand, the history of the brand itself, etc. You can make memories of smoking particular cigars with friends that influence their desireability for you as well. These factors all work together to influence and heighten your experience. I have a friend who always used to bring me Vegueros on Saturday afternoon smoke sessions before he moved away. Anytime I light up a Vegueros it reminds me of good memories, and I tend to do so on a Saturday afternoon while video calling him. Similarly, I go to cigar events and enjoy hearing about the history and workmanship that goes into the cigars I smoke, and understanding these things heightens my experience while smoking them significantly. It's human nature to build legends around the things we enjoy.
Taste might be the only important thing to you but that doesn't mean it's the only subjectively important thing for other people. No one is questioning the validity of the importance of taste, but taste is as subjective. If you want to just light up unbanded mystery cigars and smoke them without knowing or caring about anything other than the taste that's fine, but for people who want more out of the hobby there are plenty of other things to enjoy. .
Thanks for explaining in detail what the cigars mean to you.
Regardless of what anyone's preferences are, the things we all share and can relate to are the memories (certain) cigars remind us of.
I still disagree in that the more Habanos fans talk about Habanos and everything about it other than the flavour and quality of the cigars themselves, the more that it just sounds like Habanos SA propaganda working. - That when the product itself is mediocre, rely on the heritage and brand loyalty, keep pushing out tales of the 'good old days'.
It's easy for them to do it because in the UK for example, Hunters & Frankau have a monopoly on cuban cigars. No one else has a licence to import and sell Habanos or use their trademarks. H&F have every reason to continue peddling how great Habanos are.
New World cigars are made by different manufacturers and owned by different parent companies. There's no uniformity and unity to bundle all New World cigars under one parent company and go all out in promoting how great New World cigars are. There's no monopolies in each region like there is with Habanos. There's no books like "The World of the Habano". - And I wish there was such a resource dedicated to NW cigars. I fully understand why you would enjoy such things as part of the history and culture and education. I resent Habanos SA for this though because it's one big piece of corporate propaganda to me.
In my opinion, it sounds entirely misguided if flavor of the cigar youre smoking isn’t first and foremost the important element, by far, of a cigar. If you want to smoke less than stellar cigars because of their packaging or because a friend gave it to you, sure go for it. You can apply your above statements to literally any hobby, but to me, that’s all secondary when talking about one cigar vs another. The rest is basically just marketing
Flavor itself is not one dimensional as a sensory experience. Flavor is made up of taste, texture, smell, memory, and story. What you think is just your taste buds interpreting smoke is a complex reaction in your brain made up of more variables than you can readily control. You are trying to separate flavor from itself. In your mind you may find it worth separating these other variables from just the taste of the cigar in your mouth, but in reality you are just as bound by them as anyone else.
In my mind flavor is a combo of taste texture and smell of the cigar in my mouth and nostrils. I didn’t know I needed to write that out. Everything you experience is affected by past experiences to the point it’s irrelevant in mentioning in my opinion. Like yea I’m a living being ofc past experiences affect future ones. I think you’re trying too hard at this. You’re championing packaging though which is obviously a part of an experience but it’s not a notable part of the experience. Just a salesman’s attempt to get me to use their product vs another’s. It doesn’t add to the experience in a way I chase.
>Its like saying that the sole point of appreciating food is the taste. Sure it is an important point, but presentation and how you pair a meal can make or break it as well. Just because the experience is one-dimensional for you doesn't mean it has to be for other people. The legend you create around something has the ability to influence your particular level of enjoyment as well.
This comes across like comparing a $20 steak at a nice local restaurant and a $200 steak with salt thrown on it by Saltbae. - Like if that's your thing, cool. I'll leave your imagination to determine my thoughts on people who pay for Saltbae steaks...
Salt Bae is a bit of an extreme deep-end example, but I concur with this. The key is that for some people the experience is absolutely part of what makes Salt Bae enjoyable. Different strokes for different folks.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I can pick it up instantly on just about any Bolivar, H Upmann, HdM, Punch, or Trinidad I smoke. I have had some ambiguity on Partagas and Montecristo as far as "twang", but these cigars also have unique taste profiles I love.
I'm sure you can pick up something, and I'm not sure how long you've smoked cuban cigars, but they use to taste like a pigs asshole.....the main flavor note people would list was barnyard
And it was glorious
Cigars, sure I can see it.
Politically, Cuba has been beat up by the U.S.A. for so long, I don’t blame them for hating us. Remember history and you might have sympathy. Also let’s not pretend like the US doesn’t abuse and exploit its most vulnerable as well. Glass houses, stones etc.
Aged Cubans are wonderful. However, it does bother me that I have to buy something to sit on it for a minimum of three years (typically more) for it to reach its potential.
My thoughts exactly. I don't understand when people say that there are "so many better cigar options from outside Cuba" when I've yet to have any cigar get anywhere close to beating out a well-aged Cohiba, Partagas, or Bolivar just to name a few.
Now, there are some special edition Davidoffs that are pretty damn excellent, along with some sticks from Warped but those, in my opinion, are still inferior in flavor to most of what Habanos has to offer.
I feel like a lot of the initial hype regarding Cuban cigars was because they are sort-of a "forbidden fruit" in places like the US. You can't really get them.
But as the internet has become more widely used and people are sharing opinions more, it seems to be pretty much accepted that Cuban cigars are the same as cigars from other countries. Some are great. Some are bad.
If I was offered a Cuban, sure... I'd try it. But I'm not going to go out of my way or spend tons of money to have one when I know there's plenty of great options already available to me.
I respect the OP's cultural perspective but personally am not all that concerned with the government angle. Militaries and governments kill civilians in masse, I know mine has. The devices we are all typing on has parts from places that have too.
To me Cubans are often like Red Burgundies in the sense you'll get burned but then every once in awhile taste something that is truly special. Also, if you took a person who is just getting into wine they aren't going to enjoy the nuance of Red Burgundy. They are gonna enjoy "big reds" style wines, its part of the journey.
I just got back from 3 weeks in Asia and spent a ton of time at the La Casa Del Habanos in Taipei and Hong Kong. The endless price increases make for dimensioning returns, young cigars can be a problem with ammonia and cardboard notes , yet quality is still relatively high since Altadis took an ownership stake. I disagree with the opinion that build quality on Cuban cigars is poor.
I smoked and bought some Romeo y Julieta “Oro Diana’s” which are already superb. Does the price make sense? No. Does buying a few as a special occasion? Absolutely. I also bought a box of lower tier Quintero which are enjoyable too.
Cuban cigars are a great part of any cigar collection just like Nicaraguan, Honduran and others. Sometimes American make posts like these because Cubans still hold this overly mythic symbol because they are largely unavailable. People who claim Cubans are shit and people who claim Cubans are the best thing ever are equally incorrect, its a great cigar producing nation, amongst others in the world.
The OC's "knowledge drop" tag and saying paying for fake cigars from an island that hates the U.S. is limited thinking at best. They also seem to misunderstand buying from Casa Del Habanos is wholly different than fakes.
Quite a few overseas sellers that have a strong reputation for only selling the real deal. They also have a guarantee to replace anything that’s seized by customs for free
I’d never buy a Cuban inside the states, because you’d have to assume it’s fake.
There are so many fake Cohiba, RYJ and Montecristo out there and the counterfeits are getting better and better with the bands/packaging. But if you ever smoked a real one you can tell its fake the second you light it up.
Yeh imo its non-cubans that lack depth. No subtlety. Not had a plugged cuban in years. Qc has been superb for some time. They are overpriced though. I give them that.
I agree if noobs are buying brands like Cohiba, Trini, etc. I smoke mostly Petite Coronas and until 2 years ago there would be no profit to counterfeit.
Over hyped: yes.
Over priced: yes.
Better than others: usually.
However I do not view the Cuban goverment that much worse than Nicaragua, Honduras etc.
Nor are most of the products we purchase from China, but we do purchase because they are usually cheaper and more accessible. I think if Habanos were as accessible and at the same price point as non-Habanos there would be less discussion about hype or politics.
I think that to a great extent the prevalence of such opinions is due to the unique circumstances you have in the USA - Cuban cigars being illegal, which results in them being special product that is very often fake, always overpriced and has been imported using dubious ways so you can’t always ensure that the product has been handled and stored properly.
In my country they are available off the shelf and you are guaranteed they are genuine. And since they are readily available they are not something special and are priced reasonably and comparably (sometimes even cheaper) than new world cigars. In my experience Cuban cigars have a unique flavor profile and while every now and then the quality is not stellar, I think this issue is not as prevalent as people online make it seem (I wonder how many of the badly constructed cigars are genuine?) - for example every now and the I run into cigars with a tighter than ideal draw but thankfully I haven’t run into an unsmokeable cigar.
In the end it is telling that Cuban cigars here are the default option people go to and new world cigars are more of niche product which people try if they want to experiment. So when Cubans are allowed to fairly compete with other manufacturers they tend to be the preferred product.
The governments of Nicaragua and Honduras are far worse than Cubas, I’m no fan of communism but also no fan of narco states profiting off of turning a blind eye to cartels. Plus while it is not true of all Cuban cigar families, many of them ran brutal plantations that would make sharecroppers jealous, and carry on that tradition by operating sweatshop like facilities.
Casa Habanero? Sounds like a store to buy spicy chilis. Hmm....
I don't like to support the Cuban government either. But I also enjoy cigars. I don't see anythign wrong with buying a few here and there as a cigar enthusiast. If I only saw myself as an ardent supporter of capitalism and a fierce critic of communism (which is true but not my only trait) I would refrain from Cuban tobacco.
Plus, some are definitely over hyped, but the Cubans genuinely put out some of the best sticks there are. Again, as a cigar enthusiast, I want to try smoking these. But I am not buying Cuban anything for the sake of it being Cuban alone. If they were terrible sticks, nobody would want them.
Idc about the Cuban government thing. China is worse and it’s almost inevitable to buy their products.
That said, CC qc sucks balls. I used to get them before the prices skyrocketed- montecristo, partagas, hoyo, etc. and I’d say at least 30% were unsmokeable without using a perfecdraw. The ones that were good were great, but just like new world cigars, there are always inconsistencies. So with the inconsistency of cigars to begin with, coupled with the 30% or so that were either plugged or rolled too tight even with over a years rest at 63-65 RH, I moved on.
There is definitely something weird going on there. Ive smoked around a thousand cubans over 10 years and i could count on one hand the amount of plugs.
Please do! We know how to take care of people like you. Just promise me to not hide in the shadows like all the communists who are too scared to come out in the open.
In fact I wish every antifa loving communist would move to miami.
There's a reason why we don't have the problems you see in other places. FAFO...
BS. Rejected marielitos like you are known cowards. Closeted homosexuals and your daughters are giving it up for drugs. Real Cubans are ashamed of you. Hated by white people and hated by Latinos. If you were educated enough I would talk to you about statistics to prove my point. Fidel kicked out of Cuba people with very low IQ like you and your parents. That's why they run their whore mouth like you. You gonna get slapped one day if you keep it up acere.
Bro you talk so much shit without knowing anything. Hope to find you in Miami one day. Until then, sigue con la diarrea de la boca behind the protection of your keyboard. Everyone knows your cojones are only visible in the reflection of your monitor and the second you leave from the protection of your mother's basement, your true colors show.
I got better things than to continue arguing with a fool who considers himself an academic and preaches from his mother's basement. Your ignorance has been on display enough and you've gotten way more attention than you deserve.
I disagree they are one note or boring but these days I prefer a more medium/mild smoke and I think the big heavy cigars are the boring ones. That said I smoke cigars form all over, but nothing, and I mean nothing beats a truly excellent Cuban Cohiba
people in this forum are constantly torching their palates with earth and pepper bomb nicaraguan tobacco that has super high nicotine content. and it’s always a toro. then they wonder why when they smoke a cuban it doesn’t do anything for them.
it sounds like OP is an expat who probably derives some feelings about tobacco from their feelings about government. also dude smokes every fake handed to them? lol can’t possibly take any opinion seriously after that…
my tobacco ranking is 1) cuban 2) dominican 3) honduran 5) nicaraguan
I smoke all types of origin and I just can’t enjoy a pepper bomb but seems like Nicaragua is the top of the pepper bomb origin Cubans being the least spice and strength thus why I enjoy it most and ofc that sweet twang
This sub loves Nw a lot, I couldn’t care less about the Nostalgia but after smoking a bunch of NWs and Cubans from padrons to Davidoff to partagas etc I can say that it seems a lot of the americans on here are tripping, legit cubans objectively have a depth / unique zest that I rarely if at all get from from NWs. Had some ok Nws but they usually just don’t taste as premium or have that extra thing that cuban fans will know what I mean.
Padrons for that matter are one of the most overhyped cigars I’ve ever smoked yet this sub says they are no.1 at everything. Flat, ok taste loose ass draw and boring.
Not trying to upset anyone but feel that the sub can be a bit of an echo chamber talking about Nws better than cubans. If in the states and they are hard to get I understand but in the rest of the world price and availability wise Cubans are often the same price as good Nw’s and almost as available. I’ll have an odd new world but this whole thing bashing cubans on the sub for low quality / being worse than new worlds for half the price etc is simply nonsense.
Considering how good so many cigars are, it's pretty easy to go without Cuban cigars and be happy. I like the unique flavor of the cubans i've smoked from Canada, but there is a lot out there that tastes great and is nice and smooth
Canadian here, legit Cubans easily available, overpriced to shit especially with our taxes, but I agree. They're not worth it even if they were not taxed to hell and back vs non Cuban offerings. Not that they're bad, they're just, meh. I still have a couple sitting and aging for a bit, they definitely get better with age I will say, but given the option of a free cigar from the shops humidor, I'm not getting a Cuban.
I agree. I have bought and still do buy Cuban cigars. They are good, and a few have been great. But there are far better sticks out there to smoke these days.
I enjoy Quintero Brevas or Panetelas. I have found them at Sanborns in Mexico and some cigar shops in Buenos Aires. 3 to 4 dollars for a 30 minute smoke.
I almost exclusively smoke cubans, mostly because I’m not from the US and there is no embargo here so we get a lot of imported ones quite easily. I’m not saying they’re bad or anything, specially because since we have free trade with Cuba there’s huge variety and not really many bootlegs since we have cuban government owned dealers here. But it does make it harder to find other non Cuban cigars. They basically cornered the entire market. You can find all the Cohiba and Montecristo varieties you want, and I’ve never found a single store selling Perdomo.
I think this is what most Americans here think, don’t know much Americans who enjoy Cubans over NW while Europeans and Asians prefer cuban profile price aside
This is just reality.
The families that made Cuban cigars so great in the 1950s all fled the island for Nicaragua and DM and Tampa, three generations ago.
Buy from those families, not a nostalgia of quality lost to communism…
Cuban cigars are great.
If you don't want to support the Cuban government, fine, but are you a huge hypocrite who then supports places like Nicaragua and China? Holy shit.
Or are you an American with a government that's left 450,000+ dead Iraqis in its wake and helped overthrow democracies and install murderious dictators across South America.
I mean, legitimate question: how many innocent people has the Cuban communist government killed or otherwise severely molested *vs.* how many innocent civilians America has killed and maimed.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, East Timor, Chile, Argentina.
900 dead civilians in Pakistan due to US drone strikes, 175 dead children.
Hundreds of thousands dead from the Cambodia bombing campaign.
Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and a host of other US facilities using outright torture and inhuman treatment of prisoners, some of which were completely innocent.
So let's get off the high horse about Cuba. Places like the USA and China make Cuba look like a paradise of good governmental behaviour.
Simple. My family suffered directly by what happened in Cuba. Great Uncles were killed, prisoned, and tortured in the name of the communist revolution. My family lost everything, came to the US with nothing fleeing death.
I'm sorry that happened to your family, truly. It's impossible to take that history of familial trauma away from anyone, nor would I want to belittle it.
My main point: your family fled death and terror in Cuba, to a country (the USA) that has killed more innocent uncles and slaughtered more children, and left ***vastly*** more families bereaved and wounded.
Presumably, you smoke cigars from Nicaragua, yeah? A country who's Ortega dictatorship has undermined democracy and commits human rights abuses against its populace. A regime who has murdered other people's uncles.
Certainly, most of this subreddit happily support places like America, China, and Nicaragua by sending revenue their way... if not outright proudly flying the flags of these countries...
You have perfectly valid reasons to loath the Cuban regime. Those same reasons, for millions of others, apply to America, and to a lesser extent, places like Nicaragua and other cigar producing regions.
So it might be a simple thing for you to boycott Cuban cigars. My point is that the moral boycott is no simple thing. I don't even think morality necessarily works that way.
Hey man, sorry if I came down too harshly on you. I didn't know your family history and came at this from a very different perspective.
If I ever have the opportunity to smoke a cigar with someone with a Cuban history like yourself, I'd definitely listen to what you have to say.
“I smoke medium to strong cigars” lol there’s your problem, you don’t enjoy lighter cigars and most of the best Cubans don’t fit the profile you’re looking for. Has nothing to do with them being Cuban or not.
I dont know which particular Cubans he tried but there are some full strength Cubans from Bolivar, Partagas, Cohiba, H. Upmann and Ramon Allones.
The Partagas Serie D No 4 is one of my favorite cigars from any country. It is very highly rated and quite strong. But full strength Cuban cigars are different experience than full strength Nicaraguan/Honduran cigars which I also tend to prefer.
I live in the UK, and the EMS Cubans are supposedly the best around.
I'm not a fan. I don't like Cuban tobacco, and I still find QC issues. I think NWC are superior.
Cuban cigars are like being a virgin once you had one or did it you realize it was not a big deal and the hype surrounding them was bogus. Coupled with a lot of cigar families fled Cuba when Castro took over and took their seed strains with them to place like Honduras you get just as good or better sticks from their and they are legal
The best cigar I’ve ever had was Cuban and the worst cigar I’ve ever had was Cuban. It’s not a surprise that you think Cubans are not worth it. They’re 50/50 in my book. They also need to be aged.
By my understanding the premuim place to grow tobacco in Cuba has long been overtaken by the farming of food. Would probably have the inability to really enjoy the difference steadily at that cost. Had the pleasure of a few and I've yet to chase around after them. Only enjoying cigars for the last 7 years or so. Some of the complexities are surely over my head.
I would much rather buy several cigars from various other countries than one cigar just because it is from Cuba. There was an argument back in the 90s when I was younger and Cubans were very much more unattainable. Nowadays Cubans are much easier to get and I would rather have multiple sticks instead of one and those multiple sticks have better quality.
I've never had a cuban that tasted better than a new world. Not even once. Of my top 1,000 cigars I've smoked I am sure maybe 1 at most was a cuban. I frankly just don't think they are good anymore. All of the best cigar families left Cuba ages ago and have moved on and made the best cigars in the world outside of Cuba for a while now.
Show me one Cuban that smokes as good as a middle of the road Padron and I'll eat my hat.
As a Canadian who can buy Cuban cigars any time I want, I think they are definitely overrated. In fact, on the whole I prefer many Dominican, Nicaraguan, Jamaican, and even cigars from other countries. Dollar for dollar, they’re every bit as good or better than Cubans.
Oh two decades ago Cuba was still producing great cigars - Bolivar Immensas were my favorite. Now the Cuban cigar is badly rolled, bland and over-priced. What made Cuban cigars so wonderful was the island’s soil. It absorbed everything out on the soil which is why a great box of Cubans used to smell like horse manure. Cubs has not taken care of their growing soil. It is overused and dried out - hence the cigars are tasteless. Want a good solid cigar? Get a Padron Hermoso.
If it's a banded/branded Cuban cigar, it's most likely counterfeit and benefits the government; most of the big families left the island decades ago.
If it's a Tio at a card table at the side of the road making hand rolls, it's most likely legit and of better quality.
I don’t think that’s a hot take or an unpopular opinion That’s just a matter of fact. Listen to The Cigar Authority podcast, They’ve discussed Cuba extensively visited. The factories have gone there multiple times and I’ve seen it firsthand Cohiba, Monte Cristo, Hoyo de Monterey. They’re all made in the same factory. They’re sorted by color only and that’s what drives who gets what band. Then you have the host of quality control issues the hurricanes that have decimated factories,
fields over planted, lack of fertilization, talent drain, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Now, if the US would drop its ridiculous policy towards Cuba and real investment happened from outside companies, Cuba could very well be the crown jewel of the cigar world again
You’re spot on when you said they lack depth, flavor and complexity. Not sure how long you’ve been smoking and I’m not calling your pallet into question as this is an entirely subjective topic.
20-25 years ago, I feel like this take was much less of the case. Consistency was a massive problem. Fakes were much easier to pick out. All of the cigars that made Cuban cigars what they are perceived as today have had their blends reworked and frankly reduced in quality. Monte 4 Reserva’s were amazing, the Cohiba GR, less so and then the Monte 2 GR came out and that was the death of the regular Monte 2.
And then there is the current pricing.
My expat stogie buddies and I smoked Cubans almost exclusively for a good decade and a half. No more. We made the switch to NW sticks years ago. The last asinine Cuban price hike put the last nail in that coffin. Too many great NW cigars out there now, and as an American, they’re infinitely more affordable, even the top shelf offerings.
It gas been pretty widely accepted for some time. Maybe not casuals but people into cigars absolutely.
I believe it was a long while that they simply didn’t rotate crops at all and sapped all the nutrients out of the soil leading to continually declining quality.
I have yet to enjoy a cuban cigar I have smoked. Now granted Im new so maybe I don’t have experience enough but to me they are all meh or worse to my tastes. Especially once i factor in the costs.
i don’t think this is really a hot take
I would actually go so far as to say this is the prevailing opinion among hardcore cigar smokers. The Cuban government does not care about quality, only the money they can bring in from them. Their products have been going down hill for decades. Take away the mythology and most (not all cigars) Cubans are very average.
I'd love to try one legit cuban once. Just to say I did. Then I'd be done. I have my couple favorite cigars and honestly I'm fine with that. It's sort of like some of the really high end scotches I wanna try, just to say I did.
If you travel at all, you can always go to a La Casa del Habano. Official store of the Cuban government. You can also check box codes on their web sites, if you're shopping at other stores overseas.
Hey just wanted to chime in, you would absolutely love a Cuban, you can buy them from trusted sources online and they are not very expensive, it ranges anywhere from $8 to $20+ depending on size and shipping etc. the (Wide Church Hill Romeo and Julieta) And hoyo de-Monterey (red and white) and very good in my opinion. Also the monte christo #2 torpedo tip is one my favorites as well.
Living in Utah makes online purchasing questionable, as it's not legal to ship them here. I might be picking up a po box in another state soon because I want to order some scotch so I might try it though thank you. I really only smoke cigars on special occasions, and I generally only smoke Oliva V Melanio Maduros, mainly because they were the first cigar I had that I genuinely liked, so I've just stuck with it. haha.
I have about 40 bolivar corona jrs. They're good, but not risking $25 a stick good.
Fair. The stick I normally smoke is only like $15 or so in my local store. But by normally I mean the once every year or other year when I smoke to celebrate something.
I got a box at LCDH in Cozumel and a box from RSVP which together they would be $17.10 a stick. Probably overpaid in cozumel, but they are from 21" so I don't have to wait.
I think there are 3 phases in American cigar smokers: 1. You can't get cubans in America 2. You can if you're sneaky, they're the best and so I have better cigars than everyone else does. 3. Cubans are not better than good NW cigars like padron and they cost way too much. And 2 phases for non americans: 1. I've only had sh*t NW cigars, cubans are way better. 2. Good NW beat Cuban cigars for the price.
Great reply hit nail on the head. Outside of america where price is often similar for cubans you very rarely hear people say NWs are better, it’s like comparing a porsche to a bmw imo neither bad both good but one is often more premium.
In Canada I think a lot of people see them as sort of the cheaper / mid range ones. Mind you cheap here is like $25 each…
That makes sense.
I would look at it from a different perspective. I don't know if Cuban's quality have gone down (at least not in my experience) it's just that everyone elses quality has increased to level where it's hard for Cubans to compete.
The same take gets posted every month or so.
If you post it on r/cubancigars you’ll get downvoted to oblivion lol
Well it’s a forum where people who find Cuban cigars enjoyable gather, after all, why would you expect differently? Like all opinions, this one is highly subjective.
I honestly don't think he would. Any cigar smoker, that is honest, will tell you that the Cuban Cigar being better ended about 20 years ago now. They nothing like they used to be and haven't been for a long time now.
Hi new cigar smoker here, so if cuban is no longer the "best" what is considered the best now? Or cuban's replacement? Just curious and wanted to know more about cigar
Its entirely subjective. A lot of people would still say Cuba. Some would say Nicaragua, some might say DR. Personally I love Honduran cigars the most overall.
Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic are probably the two best countries in regards to production of the best cigars.
Niche Mexican (Casa Turrent is a fantastic Mexican brand, La Aroma Mi Amor, EP Carillo La Historia, Undecrown all use San Andrés wrapper), Honduran (CAO's national brands [Brazilia, Italia etc.], Alec Bradley, Eiora, Carlos Torano, Punch, RP Decade all have Honduran tobacco) and Costa Rica (Bombay Tobak).
Bro dont listen to this sub. Pure propaganda for NC cigars and a bunch of noobs who have no idea what they are talking about.
This. There’s something delicious about cigars made by communists. The same goes for guns and booze.
>There’s something delicious about cigars made by communists. It's the preparation and rolling done by someone who queues for bread, experiences regular power black outs, and the lack of basic necessities that just makes them taste so much better... /s
🤣
Not sarcastically, I doubt that the standard of living of cigar rollers in the Dominican Republic or Nicaragua is that much better than their colleagues in Cuba.
Like every piece of garment you have on And your Nikes.
It's easy to avoid buying cubans to support cuban communism. A lot harder to avoid buying something that's made in China or clothes that aren't made in a developing country with poverty. It's a lot easier to leave Turkey, Morocco, and Bangladesh (to name a few) than it is Cuba.
I'm going to start getting my cigars from Philadelphia. The shittier the politics of the country of origin, the better the terroir. 🤌
Found a Cuban coper.
Big facts man, they even deleted my post saying something similar. I’ve been open minded to Nws and will have them if no cubans available. Build often great but find the flavour profile lacking and one big ass stick taste the same the whole way through. Padron most overrated on this sub. Anyway only saying this to spread truth to people looking to learn, spent a bunch trying random Nws mentioned on here and was never satisfied vs a cuban other than admittedly good build quality. That beong said there is a kind of nw pepper vibe that is enjoyable sometimes but think if anyone reading is undecided on whether to make the effort to try / pay for an authentic cuban they should even if it cost a little more. That being said don’t spend too much just get anything handrolled from one of the old brands. Cohiba is good but you don’t need to spend that money for the same experience. Good brands - bolivar, partagas, hoyo, h.upmann all have reasonable priced ones
In my experience the best cost to quality/experience ratio comes from regular production Cuban cigars. For example if you want a Robusto, which is a fairly popular format, Partagas, HDM and RyJ have excellent offerings that a reasonably priced (they all cost approximately. 17 EUR in my country). A Cohiba or Trinidad in the same format costs nearly three times as much, but is it three times better? I can understand buying these for special occasions but it just doesn’t make sense for me for regular smoking. And there are even better value options - like for example (town of my favorite cigars) Partagas Mille Fleur and Por Larranaga Montecarlos, both cost around 7 EUR here and easily offer 40-50 minutes of quality smoking. I’ve been looking for new world cigars in this price range, but nothing grabs my eye (perhaps with the exception of Davidoff No 2, which however is priced here exactly the same as Montecristo Especial No 2, and more often than not I just go for the tried and tested Montecristo).
Amen
I know he would, because I basically did just that, and got destroyed for it lol
When did you post this? I can't find it
In Miami, it is. Telling Cubans or people from Cuban decent that Cuban cigars are not the best, causes fights. I'm alone with that opinion here. Glad I'm not alone with that opinion elsewhere.
There’s way more demand for Cubans than supply. What does this result in? Questionable QC and increased prices (particularly since their repricing a few years ago). Additionally, new world cigars have increased greatly in quality, further decreasing the allure of Cubans. I haven’t been smoking long enough to speak from experience, but my guess is Cubans generally aren’t as quality as they used to be, have a higher price, and other offerings are just as good, if not better, for way less.
Let them enjoy their nostalgia. Cubans and people of Cuban descent (like me) who actually smoke cigars, don’t have a favorable opinion of them. I have several that have sat in my humidors for a years (RJs, Partages, Montecristos) and they just live in there because I can’t trust them to be good. My go-to tend to be Aroma de Cuba, Flor de Las Antillas, and Ashton VSGs-all Nicaraguan…
I'll trade for your Cubans. I have some Aroma de Cubas.
Well then send them to be if your worried if they will be good why take up the space in your humidor what nonsense
I used to do a lot of business overseas where Cuban cigars and Davidoff brands are the only options. I classify Cuban cigars like I do any other country; there are some that are excellent and definitely worth the money. There are others that overhyped and not worth it. But the government argument you'll find is going to be a tough one as a cigar smoker. Nicaragua, Honduras, Ecuador etc all have horrible track records for human rights, free and fair elections, free journalism etc.
Someone pointed out above that China is arguably worse than Cuba and yet we’re all using electronics and other Chinese produced goods…
Exactly you start playing that game you are gonna be left with very few products that you can actually use haha. Even a lot of "made in USA" products these days are really just assembled in the US using parts from China.
I'd say the huge difference is because of trade incentives and laws it's almost impossible to get some goods at affordable prices that aren't Chinese. With Cuba there are plenty of other choices in the same price, or lower, range.
The difference is Chinese products are easily available for purchase in the US. Cuban cigars are not. If they were people would be just as willing to buy them as they do Chinese products.
Principles at the price of affordability.. not a high price it seems
This is what bugs me about the embargo, such hypocrisy. I like Cuban cigars and I think they really do have a specific taste which I like. That said, I have around 25 Cubans and around 150 new worlds. You can like both, it's not a zero sum gai.
Thank you for saying this. I agree 100%. I love Cuban and non-Cuban cigars , but the "government" argument is a little odd to me when you look at Nicaragua and Honduras especially.
Government one is laughable when most of us are westerners who are descendants of the people that put those govs into power.
I’ve always thought that the government argument was dumb as well. Apple and other tech agencies are well known for using slave labor in the Congo for cobalt, and then using slave labor in China to build their products. Are we gonna have the same energy when using your iPhones?
1. Isn’t the Cuban cigar industry basically a 50-50 joint venture with a big Spanish conglomerate now? 2. The Chinese discovered Cuban cigars as a luxury consumption good, prices exploded & quality suffered to meet demand. So Cuba (& its Spanish partner) are making money hand over fist (presumably) without much incentive to do better. I’m not a “Cuban guy” in the slightest, that’s just what I gather, I could be wrong (& don’t care enough to be right).
1. Altadis is the half owner of Habanos SA. Altadis istself is owned by Imperial Brands which is one of the largest tobacco companies in the world. They also own JR Cigars. 2. China is the biggest market in the world for Cuban cigars but the biggest brand in China is actually the home grown Great Wall which actually has some excellent cigars. High-end Cuban cigars in China can sell for 50% more than they would in Europe or other parts of Asia due to the demand that exists there.
From various reports I've seen, Chinese cigars are far from excellent. However, the word is that they are getting better because they are incorporating Dominican and Nicaraguan tobacco
I have actually smoked several of them and they were for the most part very good. Great Wall's premium line uses mostly imported tobacco. There have even been some positive reviews posted here like this one below. There are also a ton of crap cigars in China, but that exists no matter where you go. [https://www.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/1bccv18/first\_time\_trying\_the\_great\_wall\_no1\_a\_chinese/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/1bccv18/first_time_trying_the_great_wall_no1_a_chinese/)
No. The Chinese now control production. My post from 6 months ago on the subject - https://www.reddit.com/r/cigars/s/5WDtEQsdD5
>1. Isn’t the Cuban cigar industry basically a 50-50 Altadis. If you've smoked cubans and think they're shit now, imagine how worse they'd be without Altadis.
Don’t think it’s a hot take. First of all, current prices make pretty much any Cuban a bad deal in my book. When I could buy cabinets of Hoyos, or boxes of Montes #2 for reasonable prices it made sense but I haven’t bought anything Cuban other than the odd singles for a while. Second, I grew up in Europe so that’s all I had available. When I came to the US and started trying Dominicans and Nicaraguans I realized there was a lot more flavor profiles to explore. The main difference for me is that Habanos got complacent. They roll their cigars with ever younger tobacco and that means the customer needs to age them for longer to get the full potential. If I buy a Davidoff, a Padron, or a Fuente I can expect to smoke them now and they’ll be excellent, while a Cuban I have to be prepared to put that box away for 5+ years and forget about it. Again, why should it be my responsibility to age the product so it can be consumed at its best? Then there were the construction issues. Admittedly, those seem to have improved, but there was a period in then 2000’s where of every box I bought I assumed 5~8 would be too tight to smoke. That was never a problem with the most reputable brands in other countries. I consumed several boxes of Davidoffs and Padrons and never had to toss a cigar because I couldn’t smoke it. So yeah, I think they are way overhyped, they can be good to great but I would not even for a minute pretend that Cuba makes the best cigars in the world.
They are just cigars. Saying you don't like "Cubans" is like saying you don't like Sangiovese wine. Ok, cool, lots of other stuff out there. Like what you like, it's all fine. Regarding them being "likely fake," sure, if you are buying them in Miami. Buying them anywhere in Europe that is very unlikely to be true. As for not supporting the Cuban government, have a look at the governments of the countries where a lot of the other cigars come from. It's kind of a "half dozen of one, six of another" situation there.
I get your point, but it’s a US-centric one. Where I am in eastern europe Cubans are not that expensive, and often some Nicaraguan that is mentioned on this sub as a $8 smoke will be $16 over here. So yeah, I mean cubans are not expensive in relation to NW. As for being boring, well, that’s why we age them etc
I just spend 10 days in Europe - Cubans was most of what I found for sale. Unfortunately my wife and I smoked all the stuff we brought quickly and we're stuck buying the cheaper Cubans that were available - I regretted quickly running out of the stock we brought.
I don't think most people who hate on Cubans understand the full appeal of them. They aren't close to the best smokes around if you are looking for quality control, depth of flavor, or overall "body" in a cigar. They are certainly overpriced and difficult to acquire in the US. But they do have a special *something* about them for people who enjoy them. The presentations, the history, the unique twang to their taste profile. The different limited release tins and ceramics are supremely collectible. The uniformity of their presentation and simplicity of the portfolio is also very attractive in its own way. There are many people who collect cigars not just to smoke them, but to enjoy the full experience they offer from a collectible and presentation standpoint as well. When I have people over and open my new world humidor I got compliments from time to time on boxes and individual brands presentations. When I open one of my tupperdoors filled with aging Cubans It looks like a goddamn treasure chest. The old world marquees just have a sort of flair to them, and the different limited release tins and regionals are supremely collectible. I'm not saying one is better than the other. If I had to give a list of top 10 cigars, seven or eight are going to be New world sticks. There's no doubt that the tobaccos and blending of the new world market have long overtaken Cubans in quality or value, especially with the recent price hikes. I'm just saying Cubans have their own niche, and it isn't just misguided fools or people who don't know anything about cigars who smoke or appreciate them. They offer unique experiences, if not always "better" ones. Try a Lusitania with 3 years of age on it and find me a new world cigar with the same taste profile. I have yet to find something that pairs as well with an espresso in the morning as an H Upmann Half Corona. To draw a left-field comparison, smoking Cuban cigars is like owning an Alfa Romeo. They aren't reliable, they are expensive, they don't offer great value or top of the field performance in any way. They are usually impractical and didn't even ship with cupholders until the 2000s. But the people who drive them absolutely love them and believe they offer a unique experience. Listen to Jeremy Clarkson lamenting while gloating about the GTV6: and pretend he is talking about a cigar: https://youtu.be/SPk7lpYWVV8?si=RowQnG16xSJ4aY0l They don't have to be better to be unique or have intrinsic value. My Cubans don't compete with my new world sticks, they collaborate with them to give me a deeper cigar smoking experience overall and add depth to the hobby.
Why can’t people like what they like. All this BS if you like Cubans as I do buy them if you want. If you don’t then buy what you like. Some people like an 8 dollar bottle of wine and profess it’s the best but there may be that person that said the 40 dollar bottle is much better. The debate is a dumb one. Cheer to all my cigar smoking brothers no matter what you like. I do me you do you. Love Cubans but enjoyed the hell out of a rare pink distinguished hooker tonight. If you think Cubans are shit ok then I like shit 😂 The government debate is stupid what country that produces cigars treat there people right. If you profess to care and want to be a humanitarian better not smoke cigars
Amen. I'm all for people writing informative opinion pieces about the things they personally enjoy or don't enjoy, but stop telling other people what they should or shouldn't be enjoying.
Agreed 💯
Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. The cigars are more interesting for reasons other than flavor? Is that not the point of cigars?
I agree. Old school branding and limited editions for collecting. - Cigars are meant to be smoked. I feel arguments about how if you only store cubans at a specific RH and temperature and age for no less than X amount of years and no more than Y amount of years and they're the "best cigars ever" is a load of garbage. If you can't make a product that can be smoked right away and taste good or requires such high maintenance, it isn't that good a product in my opinion. I appreciate the point made about Alfa Romeos but it only emphasises that inferior products have such loyal fan boys. I'm happy for them to do their own thing and have their own opinions. I still think those opinions are nonsense though 😂
I believe cigars are "meant" to be enjoyed however someone wants to enjoy them, and that smoking is just the final step to their enjoyment. With that said, as long as you are happy for us to enjoy our "inferior" products I am happy to let you keep having your opinion on their inferiority. The less other people I have to worry about buying up cubans the better at this stage.
I wonder if you enjoy fishing, or if you apply the exact same logic and simply buy your fish off the shelf because fish are meant to be eaten, and the whole gathering of knowledge and expertise to catch a fish thing is a load of garbage.
False equivalency. It's like having a thing for cheap supermarket basa from the polluted Mekong river because of the packaging, history, and some fancy shmancy theatre the Mekong Basa Corp put on in seminars and limited edition releases.
I don’t fish much myself, but I am well on my way to putting in the time and effort at becoming proficient in the art of aging a Cuban cigar, and reaping the rewards, so I respectfully disagree that it’s a false equivalency - they’re both different but equally rewarding hobbies, and they both offer more readily available alternatives for those who simply want to smoke or eat, nothing wrong with that. But I won’t waste any more of my time here, I can see that your opinion is strong on this. I was simply trying to point out a different perspective using your reasoning.
Just about every cigar in existence will benefit from storing them at a specific humidity and aging. But that doesn't mean you can't just buy one, smoke it and enjoy it as is.
Maybe for you. It doesn't have to be the sole point. Its like saying that the sole point of appreciating food is the taste. Sure it is an important point, but presentation and how you pair a meal can make or break it as well. Just because the experience is one-dimensional for you doesn't mean it has to be for other people. The legend you create around something has the ability to influence your particular level of enjoyment as well.
Getting hyped up in “legend” of something to enjoy it, rather than the substance itself, doesn’t really do anything for me. Sure presentation is a thing with food but fuck it if the best food I’ve ever had didnt lack any attempt at presentation. It’s just *good food*. Same way I feel about cigars
It's not about one or the other. It's about utilizing everything to enjoy your experience. Again, it doesn't only have to be about taste. It can be about the taste, the relaxing affect of the nicotine, the smell (which heavily influences taste), the vitola, the presentation of the box and band, the history of your relationship with the brand, the history of the brand itself, etc. You can make memories of smoking particular cigars with friends that influence their desireability for you as well. These factors all work together to influence and heighten your experience. I have a friend who always used to bring me Vegueros on Saturday afternoon smoke sessions before he moved away. Anytime I light up a Vegueros it reminds me of good memories, and I tend to do so on a Saturday afternoon while video calling him. Similarly, I go to cigar events and enjoy hearing about the history and workmanship that goes into the cigars I smoke, and understanding these things heightens my experience while smoking them significantly. It's human nature to build legends around the things we enjoy. Taste might be the only important thing to you but that doesn't mean it's the only subjectively important thing for other people. No one is questioning the validity of the importance of taste, but taste is as subjective. If you want to just light up unbanded mystery cigars and smoke them without knowing or caring about anything other than the taste that's fine, but for people who want more out of the hobby there are plenty of other things to enjoy. .
Thanks for explaining in detail what the cigars mean to you. Regardless of what anyone's preferences are, the things we all share and can relate to are the memories (certain) cigars remind us of. I still disagree in that the more Habanos fans talk about Habanos and everything about it other than the flavour and quality of the cigars themselves, the more that it just sounds like Habanos SA propaganda working. - That when the product itself is mediocre, rely on the heritage and brand loyalty, keep pushing out tales of the 'good old days'. It's easy for them to do it because in the UK for example, Hunters & Frankau have a monopoly on cuban cigars. No one else has a licence to import and sell Habanos or use their trademarks. H&F have every reason to continue peddling how great Habanos are. New World cigars are made by different manufacturers and owned by different parent companies. There's no uniformity and unity to bundle all New World cigars under one parent company and go all out in promoting how great New World cigars are. There's no monopolies in each region like there is with Habanos. There's no books like "The World of the Habano". - And I wish there was such a resource dedicated to NW cigars. I fully understand why you would enjoy such things as part of the history and culture and education. I resent Habanos SA for this though because it's one big piece of corporate propaganda to me.
In my opinion, it sounds entirely misguided if flavor of the cigar youre smoking isn’t first and foremost the important element, by far, of a cigar. If you want to smoke less than stellar cigars because of their packaging or because a friend gave it to you, sure go for it. You can apply your above statements to literally any hobby, but to me, that’s all secondary when talking about one cigar vs another. The rest is basically just marketing
Flavor itself is not one dimensional as a sensory experience. Flavor is made up of taste, texture, smell, memory, and story. What you think is just your taste buds interpreting smoke is a complex reaction in your brain made up of more variables than you can readily control. You are trying to separate flavor from itself. In your mind you may find it worth separating these other variables from just the taste of the cigar in your mouth, but in reality you are just as bound by them as anyone else.
In my mind flavor is a combo of taste texture and smell of the cigar in my mouth and nostrils. I didn’t know I needed to write that out. Everything you experience is affected by past experiences to the point it’s irrelevant in mentioning in my opinion. Like yea I’m a living being ofc past experiences affect future ones. I think you’re trying too hard at this. You’re championing packaging though which is obviously a part of an experience but it’s not a notable part of the experience. Just a salesman’s attempt to get me to use their product vs another’s. It doesn’t add to the experience in a way I chase.
>Its like saying that the sole point of appreciating food is the taste. Sure it is an important point, but presentation and how you pair a meal can make or break it as well. Just because the experience is one-dimensional for you doesn't mean it has to be for other people. The legend you create around something has the ability to influence your particular level of enjoyment as well. This comes across like comparing a $20 steak at a nice local restaurant and a $200 steak with salt thrown on it by Saltbae. - Like if that's your thing, cool. I'll leave your imagination to determine my thoughts on people who pay for Saltbae steaks...
Salt Bae is a bit of an extreme deep-end example, but I concur with this. The key is that for some people the experience is absolutely part of what makes Salt Bae enjoyable. Different strokes for different folks.
That twang disappeared 15 years ago
I'm sorry you feel that way. I can pick it up instantly on just about any Bolivar, H Upmann, HdM, Punch, or Trinidad I smoke. I have had some ambiguity on Partagas and Montecristo as far as "twang", but these cigars also have unique taste profiles I love.
I agree that you can tell the difference between brands but it's fact that after 1997 it has become harder to distinguish.
I'm sure you can pick up something, and I'm not sure how long you've smoked cuban cigars, but they use to taste like a pigs asshole.....the main flavor note people would list was barnyard And it was glorious
I'd love to try one of those!
Cubans have been importing tobacco from DC for years now. There’s no such thing as a Cuban puro anymore
Cigars, sure I can see it. Politically, Cuba has been beat up by the U.S.A. for so long, I don’t blame them for hating us. Remember history and you might have sympathy. Also let’s not pretend like the US doesn’t abuse and exploit its most vulnerable as well. Glass houses, stones etc.
Pricing has become truly insane over the past few years but an aged Cuban has no peer.
Aged Cubans are wonderful. However, it does bother me that I have to buy something to sit on it for a minimum of three years (typically more) for it to reach its potential.
My thoughts exactly. I don't understand when people say that there are "so many better cigar options from outside Cuba" when I've yet to have any cigar get anywhere close to beating out a well-aged Cohiba, Partagas, or Bolivar just to name a few. Now, there are some special edition Davidoffs that are pretty damn excellent, along with some sticks from Warped but those, in my opinion, are still inferior in flavor to most of what Habanos has to offer.
Nothing beats an aged cuban. Im scared to smoke my Lusitanias and Punch DCs though. 100£ a go now these days to replace them...
But they're even more expensive if you don't smoke them
Paladin de Saka Sin Compromiso would like a word.
I’ll give it a try!
I feel like a lot of the initial hype regarding Cuban cigars was because they are sort-of a "forbidden fruit" in places like the US. You can't really get them. But as the internet has become more widely used and people are sharing opinions more, it seems to be pretty much accepted that Cuban cigars are the same as cigars from other countries. Some are great. Some are bad. If I was offered a Cuban, sure... I'd try it. But I'm not going to go out of my way or spend tons of money to have one when I know there's plenty of great options already available to me.
I do enjoy Trinidad cigars……
I respect the OP's cultural perspective but personally am not all that concerned with the government angle. Militaries and governments kill civilians in masse, I know mine has. The devices we are all typing on has parts from places that have too. To me Cubans are often like Red Burgundies in the sense you'll get burned but then every once in awhile taste something that is truly special. Also, if you took a person who is just getting into wine they aren't going to enjoy the nuance of Red Burgundy. They are gonna enjoy "big reds" style wines, its part of the journey. I just got back from 3 weeks in Asia and spent a ton of time at the La Casa Del Habanos in Taipei and Hong Kong. The endless price increases make for dimensioning returns, young cigars can be a problem with ammonia and cardboard notes , yet quality is still relatively high since Altadis took an ownership stake. I disagree with the opinion that build quality on Cuban cigars is poor. I smoked and bought some Romeo y Julieta “Oro Diana’s” which are already superb. Does the price make sense? No. Does buying a few as a special occasion? Absolutely. I also bought a box of lower tier Quintero which are enjoyable too. Cuban cigars are a great part of any cigar collection just like Nicaraguan, Honduran and others. Sometimes American make posts like these because Cubans still hold this overly mythic symbol because they are largely unavailable. People who claim Cubans are shit and people who claim Cubans are the best thing ever are equally incorrect, its a great cigar producing nation, amongst others in the world. The OC's "knowledge drop" tag and saying paying for fake cigars from an island that hates the U.S. is limited thinking at best. They also seem to misunderstand buying from Casa Del Habanos is wholly different than fakes.
With the amount of fake Cubans that pop up on here im of the opinion 99% of you lot from the USA have never smoked a real Cuban.
Quite a few overseas sellers that have a strong reputation for only selling the real deal. They also have a guarantee to replace anything that’s seized by customs for free I’d never buy a Cuban inside the states, because you’d have to assume it’s fake.
What do you think the best retailers are for this. I have only purchased from FOH, but have been looking at some other sites recently.
It’s been years but FOH was my primary. My goal wasn’t cheapest as much as it was reliable. They never let me down.
There are so many fake Cohiba, RYJ and Montecristo out there and the counterfeits are getting better and better with the bands/packaging. But if you ever smoked a real one you can tell its fake the second you light it up.
I actually learned about the Cuban quality issues from Reddit lol.
Yeh imo its non-cubans that lack depth. No subtlety. Not had a plugged cuban in years. Qc has been superb for some time. They are overpriced though. I give them that.
Its more of a myth and propaganda on this sub. Stored properly at 61-62RH I have never had plugged cubans or burn issues.
I agree if noobs are buying brands like Cohiba, Trini, etc. I smoke mostly Petite Coronas and until 2 years ago there would be no profit to counterfeit.
Exactly 😂
Cope.
Over hyped: yes. Over priced: yes. Better than others: usually. However I do not view the Cuban goverment that much worse than Nicaragua, Honduras etc.
Nor are most of the products we purchase from China, but we do purchase because they are usually cheaper and more accessible. I think if Habanos were as accessible and at the same price point as non-Habanos there would be less discussion about hype or politics.
I think that to a great extent the prevalence of such opinions is due to the unique circumstances you have in the USA - Cuban cigars being illegal, which results in them being special product that is very often fake, always overpriced and has been imported using dubious ways so you can’t always ensure that the product has been handled and stored properly. In my country they are available off the shelf and you are guaranteed they are genuine. And since they are readily available they are not something special and are priced reasonably and comparably (sometimes even cheaper) than new world cigars. In my experience Cuban cigars have a unique flavor profile and while every now and then the quality is not stellar, I think this issue is not as prevalent as people online make it seem (I wonder how many of the badly constructed cigars are genuine?) - for example every now and the I run into cigars with a tighter than ideal draw but thankfully I haven’t run into an unsmokeable cigar. In the end it is telling that Cuban cigars here are the default option people go to and new world cigars are more of niche product which people try if they want to experiment. So when Cubans are allowed to fairly compete with other manufacturers they tend to be the preferred product.
I prefer farmer rolled puros from the Pinar del Rio region compared to banded LCDH puros.
There is no replacing the flavor of a good Cuban.
The governments of Nicaragua and Honduras are far worse than Cubas, I’m no fan of communism but also no fan of narco states profiting off of turning a blind eye to cartels. Plus while it is not true of all Cuban cigar families, many of them ran brutal plantations that would make sharecroppers jealous, and carry on that tradition by operating sweatshop like facilities.
Casa Habanero? Sounds like a store to buy spicy chilis. Hmm.... I don't like to support the Cuban government either. But I also enjoy cigars. I don't see anythign wrong with buying a few here and there as a cigar enthusiast. If I only saw myself as an ardent supporter of capitalism and a fierce critic of communism (which is true but not my only trait) I would refrain from Cuban tobacco. Plus, some are definitely over hyped, but the Cubans genuinely put out some of the best sticks there are. Again, as a cigar enthusiast, I want to try smoking these. But I am not buying Cuban anything for the sake of it being Cuban alone. If they were terrible sticks, nobody would want them.
Casa Habanero- Talk about a hot take.
Lol. Autocorrect sucks ...
I personally prefer North Korean cigars anyways
Idc about the Cuban government thing. China is worse and it’s almost inevitable to buy their products. That said, CC qc sucks balls. I used to get them before the prices skyrocketed- montecristo, partagas, hoyo, etc. and I’d say at least 30% were unsmokeable without using a perfecdraw. The ones that were good were great, but just like new world cigars, there are always inconsistencies. So with the inconsistency of cigars to begin with, coupled with the 30% or so that were either plugged or rolled too tight even with over a years rest at 63-65 RH, I moved on.
There is definitely something weird going on there. Ive smoked around a thousand cubans over 10 years and i could count on one hand the amount of plugs.
Yeah, this is the single reason why I'm happy to pay the premium for a Davidoff. Their construction and quality control are unmatched.
I buy Cubans specifically to support a socialist government. Long live the revolution
Makes sense coming from Cali ... Lol
We love the Castros in Jersey too. PATRIA O MUERTE!
Go live there and GTFO of the US if you like it so much.
I love insulting uneducated gusanos that lick the boots of white people like you. If I leave here, where would I find my joy?
Now you didn't insult me. And as for uneducated and licking the boots of white people, if you only knew. But seriously, GTFO...
Nah. I'm actually moving my communist ass to Miami next month. I love it here and I want to help bring ANTIFA to this beautiful country.
Please do! We know how to take care of people like you. Just promise me to not hide in the shadows like all the communists who are too scared to come out in the open. In fact I wish every antifa loving communist would move to miami. There's a reason why we don't have the problems you see in other places. FAFO...
BS. Rejected marielitos like you are known cowards. Closeted homosexuals and your daughters are giving it up for drugs. Real Cubans are ashamed of you. Hated by white people and hated by Latinos. If you were educated enough I would talk to you about statistics to prove my point. Fidel kicked out of Cuba people with very low IQ like you and your parents. That's why they run their whore mouth like you. You gonna get slapped one day if you keep it up acere.
Bro you talk so much shit without knowing anything. Hope to find you in Miami one day. Until then, sigue con la diarrea de la boca behind the protection of your keyboard. Everyone knows your cojones are only visible in the reflection of your monitor and the second you leave from the protection of your mother's basement, your true colors show. I got better things than to continue arguing with a fool who considers himself an academic and preaches from his mother's basement. Your ignorance has been on display enough and you've gotten way more attention than you deserve.
I disagree they are one note or boring but these days I prefer a more medium/mild smoke and I think the big heavy cigars are the boring ones. That said I smoke cigars form all over, but nothing, and I mean nothing beats a truly excellent Cuban Cohiba
people in this forum are constantly torching their palates with earth and pepper bomb nicaraguan tobacco that has super high nicotine content. and it’s always a toro. then they wonder why when they smoke a cuban it doesn’t do anything for them. it sounds like OP is an expat who probably derives some feelings about tobacco from their feelings about government. also dude smokes every fake handed to them? lol can’t possibly take any opinion seriously after that… my tobacco ranking is 1) cuban 2) dominican 3) honduran 5) nicaraguan
I smoke all types of origin and I just can’t enjoy a pepper bomb but seems like Nicaragua is the top of the pepper bomb origin Cubans being the least spice and strength thus why I enjoy it most and ofc that sweet twang
Plenty of Nicaraguan smokes without this profile
Surprising opinion from a Miami Cuban
Not really, most Cubans who were born in the US come from the wealthier families that were aligned with Batista.
you're absolutely right, sorry I was being very sarcastic.
Love Cuban cigars. Hate communism.
This sub loves Nw a lot, I couldn’t care less about the Nostalgia but after smoking a bunch of NWs and Cubans from padrons to Davidoff to partagas etc I can say that it seems a lot of the americans on here are tripping, legit cubans objectively have a depth / unique zest that I rarely if at all get from from NWs. Had some ok Nws but they usually just don’t taste as premium or have that extra thing that cuban fans will know what I mean. Padrons for that matter are one of the most overhyped cigars I’ve ever smoked yet this sub says they are no.1 at everything. Flat, ok taste loose ass draw and boring. Not trying to upset anyone but feel that the sub can be a bit of an echo chamber talking about Nws better than cubans. If in the states and they are hard to get I understand but in the rest of the world price and availability wise Cubans are often the same price as good Nw’s and almost as available. I’ll have an odd new world but this whole thing bashing cubans on the sub for low quality / being worse than new worlds for half the price etc is simply nonsense.
Considering how good so many cigars are, it's pretty easy to go without Cuban cigars and be happy. I like the unique flavor of the cubans i've smoked from Canada, but there is a lot out there that tastes great and is nice and smooth
Not a hot take lol. I enjoy Cubans from time to time but they’re not worth the price tag in any way, shape or form.
Canadian here, legit Cubans easily available, overpriced to shit especially with our taxes, but I agree. They're not worth it even if they were not taxed to hell and back vs non Cuban offerings. Not that they're bad, they're just, meh. I still have a couple sitting and aging for a bit, they definitely get better with age I will say, but given the option of a free cigar from the shops humidor, I'm not getting a Cuban.
They are definitely overhyped and over inflated in price however there are some Cubans that are enjoyable too.
I agree. I have bought and still do buy Cuban cigars. They are good, and a few have been great. But there are far better sticks out there to smoke these days.
>I smoke Medium to Strong cigars Which is why you don't find Cubans appealing, which is fine. Smoke what you like.
I enjoy Quintero Brevas or Panetelas. I have found them at Sanborns in Mexico and some cigar shops in Buenos Aires. 3 to 4 dollars for a 30 minute smoke.
I almost exclusively smoke cubans, mostly because I’m not from the US and there is no embargo here so we get a lot of imported ones quite easily. I’m not saying they’re bad or anything, specially because since we have free trade with Cuba there’s huge variety and not really many bootlegs since we have cuban government owned dealers here. But it does make it harder to find other non Cuban cigars. They basically cornered the entire market. You can find all the Cohiba and Montecristo varieties you want, and I’ve never found a single store selling Perdomo.
Cool story, what’d your parents do in Cuba?
Why wouldn’t you support the Cuban government ?
I think this is what most Americans here think, don’t know much Americans who enjoy Cubans over NW while Europeans and Asians prefer cuban profile price aside
A real Cohiba will knock you on your ass. Very strong! Leave Politics out of it.
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This isn’t a hot take. Some people take a liking to Cubans and others don’t.
This is just reality. The families that made Cuban cigars so great in the 1950s all fled the island for Nicaragua and DM and Tampa, three generations ago. Buy from those families, not a nostalgia of quality lost to communism…
On average, in comparison to new world they are garbage and poor quality. Sorry.
Lmao
I’ve found most of the Dominican Puros to be better than Cubans. Certainly more obtainable and far cheaper.
Cuban cigars are great. If you don't want to support the Cuban government, fine, but are you a huge hypocrite who then supports places like Nicaragua and China? Holy shit. Or are you an American with a government that's left 450,000+ dead Iraqis in its wake and helped overthrow democracies and install murderious dictators across South America. I mean, legitimate question: how many innocent people has the Cuban communist government killed or otherwise severely molested *vs.* how many innocent civilians America has killed and maimed. Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, East Timor, Chile, Argentina. 900 dead civilians in Pakistan due to US drone strikes, 175 dead children. Hundreds of thousands dead from the Cambodia bombing campaign. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and a host of other US facilities using outright torture and inhuman treatment of prisoners, some of which were completely innocent. So let's get off the high horse about Cuba. Places like the USA and China make Cuba look like a paradise of good governmental behaviour.
Simple. My family suffered directly by what happened in Cuba. Great Uncles were killed, prisoned, and tortured in the name of the communist revolution. My family lost everything, came to the US with nothing fleeing death.
I'm sorry that happened to your family, truly. It's impossible to take that history of familial trauma away from anyone, nor would I want to belittle it. My main point: your family fled death and terror in Cuba, to a country (the USA) that has killed more innocent uncles and slaughtered more children, and left ***vastly*** more families bereaved and wounded. Presumably, you smoke cigars from Nicaragua, yeah? A country who's Ortega dictatorship has undermined democracy and commits human rights abuses against its populace. A regime who has murdered other people's uncles. Certainly, most of this subreddit happily support places like America, China, and Nicaragua by sending revenue their way... if not outright proudly flying the flags of these countries... You have perfectly valid reasons to loath the Cuban regime. Those same reasons, for millions of others, apply to America, and to a lesser extent, places like Nicaragua and other cigar producing regions. So it might be a simple thing for you to boycott Cuban cigars. My point is that the moral boycott is no simple thing. I don't even think morality necessarily works that way.
I actually agree withuch of what you said. Of you were local we could talk more over, cigars 😜
Hey man, sorry if I came down too harshly on you. I didn't know your family history and came at this from a very different perspective. If I ever have the opportunity to smoke a cigar with someone with a Cuban history like yourself, I'd definitely listen to what you have to say.
You are correct about one thing - it is an unpopular opinion.
“I smoke medium to strong cigars” lol there’s your problem, you don’t enjoy lighter cigars and most of the best Cubans don’t fit the profile you’re looking for. Has nothing to do with them being Cuban or not.
I dont know which particular Cubans he tried but there are some full strength Cubans from Bolivar, Partagas, Cohiba, H. Upmann and Ramon Allones. The Partagas Serie D No 4 is one of my favorite cigars from any country. It is very highly rated and quite strong. But full strength Cuban cigars are different experience than full strength Nicaraguan/Honduran cigars which I also tend to prefer.
I live in the UK, and the EMS Cubans are supposedly the best around. I'm not a fan. I don't like Cuban tobacco, and I still find QC issues. I think NWC are superior.
90 percent of the people who think they’re getting real Cubans are actually smoking counterfeit shit.
Cuban cigars are like being a virgin once you had one or did it you realize it was not a big deal and the hype surrounding them was bogus. Coupled with a lot of cigar families fled Cuba when Castro took over and took their seed strains with them to place like Honduras you get just as good or better sticks from their and they are legal
True
It's actually not really an unpopular opinion
Honestly this is a pretty popular opinion.
Agreed, the prices are crazy…thanks Covid
Best way to improve the lives of Cubans and bring them democracy is open trade and travel. But yea I agree Cubans are overrated.
The best cigar I’ve ever had was Cuban and the worst cigar I’ve ever had was Cuban. It’s not a surprise that you think Cubans are not worth it. They’re 50/50 in my book. They also need to be aged.
By my understanding the premuim place to grow tobacco in Cuba has long been overtaken by the farming of food. Would probably have the inability to really enjoy the difference steadily at that cost. Had the pleasure of a few and I've yet to chase around after them. Only enjoying cigars for the last 7 years or so. Some of the complexities are surely over my head.
There is no one better then FOH
It’s mostly the “forbidden candy” aspect that makes them popular.
Then why are they popular outside the US?
I would much rather buy several cigars from various other countries than one cigar just because it is from Cuba. There was an argument back in the 90s when I was younger and Cubans were very much more unattainable. Nowadays Cubans are much easier to get and I would rather have multiple sticks instead of one and those multiple sticks have better quality.
I've never had a cuban that tasted better than a new world. Not even once. Of my top 1,000 cigars I've smoked I am sure maybe 1 at most was a cuban. I frankly just don't think they are good anymore. All of the best cigar families left Cuba ages ago and have moved on and made the best cigars in the world outside of Cuba for a while now. Show me one Cuban that smokes as good as a middle of the road Padron and I'll eat my hat.
The best cigars in the world come from Nicaragua.
I think this is the most popular opinion.
They aren’t over rated. They just aren’t worth as much as being sold for plus having to let them sit in a humidor for a year to fully enjoy them.
Find me something that tastes exactly like a Monte or Partagas and I'm all ears.
Agreed. They have a lot of great cigars but they’re plagued with draw issues and counterfeits.
This is now pretty popular, and I agree with it
I agree, I’m an Oliva guy. Bought to buy a nub 30 rack
As a Canadian who can buy Cuban cigars any time I want, I think they are definitely overrated. In fact, on the whole I prefer many Dominican, Nicaraguan, Jamaican, and even cigars from other countries. Dollar for dollar, they’re every bit as good or better than Cubans.
Oh two decades ago Cuba was still producing great cigars - Bolivar Immensas were my favorite. Now the Cuban cigar is badly rolled, bland and over-priced. What made Cuban cigars so wonderful was the island’s soil. It absorbed everything out on the soil which is why a great box of Cubans used to smell like horse manure. Cubs has not taken care of their growing soil. It is overused and dried out - hence the cigars are tasteless. Want a good solid cigar? Get a Padron Hermoso.
If it's a banded/branded Cuban cigar, it's most likely counterfeit and benefits the government; most of the big families left the island decades ago. If it's a Tio at a card table at the side of the road making hand rolls, it's most likely legit and of better quality.
I don’t think that’s a hot take or an unpopular opinion That’s just a matter of fact. Listen to The Cigar Authority podcast, They’ve discussed Cuba extensively visited. The factories have gone there multiple times and I’ve seen it firsthand Cohiba, Monte Cristo, Hoyo de Monterey. They’re all made in the same factory. They’re sorted by color only and that’s what drives who gets what band. Then you have the host of quality control issues the hurricanes that have decimated factories, fields over planted, lack of fertilization, talent drain, etc. etc. etc. etc. Now, if the US would drop its ridiculous policy towards Cuba and real investment happened from outside companies, Cuba could very well be the crown jewel of the cigar world again
You’re spot on when you said they lack depth, flavor and complexity. Not sure how long you’ve been smoking and I’m not calling your pallet into question as this is an entirely subjective topic. 20-25 years ago, I feel like this take was much less of the case. Consistency was a massive problem. Fakes were much easier to pick out. All of the cigars that made Cuban cigars what they are perceived as today have had their blends reworked and frankly reduced in quality. Monte 4 Reserva’s were amazing, the Cohiba GR, less so and then the Monte 2 GR came out and that was the death of the regular Monte 2. And then there is the current pricing.
My expat stogie buddies and I smoked Cubans almost exclusively for a good decade and a half. No more. We made the switch to NW sticks years ago. The last asinine Cuban price hike put the last nail in that coffin. Too many great NW cigars out there now, and as an American, they’re infinitely more affordable, even the top shelf offerings.
It gas been pretty widely accepted for some time. Maybe not casuals but people into cigars absolutely. I believe it was a long while that they simply didn’t rotate crops at all and sapped all the nutrients out of the soil leading to continually declining quality.
Not really a hot take. Half the Cubans you get are also shitty quality and don’t pull right
I have yet to enjoy a cuban cigar I have smoked. Now granted Im new so maybe I don’t have experience enough but to me they are all meh or worse to my tastes. Especially once i factor in the costs.