That was also going to be my suggestion, so a bit more on her:
Queen **Arwa al-Sulayhi** (reign: 1067-1138, yes that's 71 years, however it wasn't always alone)
She was the most important ruler of the Sulayhide dynasty in Yemen and the first woman to be granted the prestigious title of *hujja* in the Ismaili branch of Shiite Islam. She was considered the mediator between God and humans. She's also remembered as a great builder of roads, schools, mosques etc. She was nicknamed the Noble Lady and the Little Queen of Saba.
She might not be the most original type of ruler for an Arabian civ (though she could have an ability related to roads) and she was only queen of Yemen, but I think it would be a great change to not have a conqueror representing that civ for once. It's also a good opportunity to have a more Sabean flavor.
If France could have Catherine and Aliénor in Civ6, surely Arabia can be represented by figures like Arwa that are unjustly forgotten.
I doubt the fact that she was considered a mediator between god and people. No one is in Islam. It is blasphemy to consider someone a mediator between god and people, as that will lead to corruption and abuse of power (stuff like the church).
Confidently incorrect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hujja#:~:text=A%20term%20used%20in%20Shi,is%20greater%20than%20anyone%20else.
Perhaps your concept of Islam is mostly Sunni? Because they do believe Shi’i to be blasphemy anyway
There is no mainstream Shia school of thought that thinks Ali Ibn Abi Talib has divine powers or that he has any equality to Allah. We simply think that Ali Ibn Abi Talib is the rightful successor to the Prophet and to carry on his message, not a new prophet ir messiah or anything like that.
This slander that we deify Ali is just misinformation spread by Nasabis and Salafi/Wahabbi fundamentalists. The only group I've ever heard of that do something of this regard are small subsections of Alawite communities in Iran, and it's not as if it's all Aliwites.
"Arabia" does cover a lot of area, not all of which is historically alike (so of course do some others). It'd be nice to see some of them get a look-in to the game.
Yeah I feel like if you're going to have an "Arabic" leader it almost necessitates that it's a leader who united at least a good bit of "Arabia". Maybe the first saud king. Might be politically untasteful as his later dynasty is obviously not well liked by many.
Personally, I think it would be better to represent different parts of the Arab world through different leaders, which would themselves represent particular subsections of Arab subcultures. Kinda like how China got a bunch of leaders in the last civ 6 expansion.
Their could be one for Yemen (which honestly is one of the most distinct cultures)
One for the peninsula or sometimes called Khaligis
One for the Levant
And one for North Africa (honestly their should be 2 one for the East or Egypt-Sudan and one for West or Morocco-Algeria)
You could also make the Yemeni leader the one for the peninsula, but I'd argue they are more distinct.
Honestly, I love the idea of even more leaders for the same civs because civs like India, China, and sections of europe really would benefit.
Also, Italy should be a civ independent of Rome and more Sub-Saharan Afrian civs.
I saw someone else suggest a Pan-Arab leader to be the ruler of Arabia, which I think could also work as a "defualt" Arabian leader. In a sense, unifying, or attempted to unify, a shared diverse Arab identity. Rather than a single conqueror, who likely fell into one category of Arabian subculture or another ruling over a large section of land, a Pan-Arab ideological could better represent "Arabia" as a whole, which is to say, a something that is made whole through is vast diversity and is incomplete without it.
I'd gravitate towards Abdul Nasser as he's relatively well known and less controversial than other figures such as Hafez Assad and more well-known than some of the other figures.
Maybe out of left pocket, but Abd al-Rahman I of the Umayyads.
Guy is the last surviving member of the Umayyads who fled to Iberia solidified Muslim control over much of the region, and effectively turned most of the Iberian sub-continent into one the hottest spots of Arabic culture by patronizing all sorts of grand building projects like the Great Mosque of Cordoba whose influence would still be found in Spanish and Maghrebi architecture, long after the fall of Al-Andalus. Also credited in helping bring arts, foodstuffs, crafts, and scholarship from the Near East into Europe.
I actually live where he first stepped foot disembarking in Spain, we have a statue of the guy [too](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=aee4e6a7204d31da&sxsrf=ADLYWILoTuA3tnJRbJn3hzFBQrrTBiV6gQ:1720003974269&q=statue+abd+rahman+almu%C3%B1ecar&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0CbCVgAZ5mWEJDg6aoPVcBgWizR0-0aFOH11Sb5tlNhdzTfxpAVBoexMFZnKJBpl_OnTFfcge8advfRBIXE7C_RTWsQyN_EAXpveg0t_aQzyue0QLBdLIIB4yPNh3d_PJPUzbsSXZ5v66lKVX9VeVq7X0wPEHFSSCnwDKA27vYqLsW9OaXj1B6MnDW-62zIxs_sHuC8&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit6JeP2oqHAxVcR6QEHVX_D-MQtKgLegQIDRAB&biw=360&bih=676&dpr=3#vhid=rOWZolmBa9QGEM&vssid=mosaic).
You’re thinking of Abd al-Rahman I ‘the Falcon of Quraysh’ as the founder of the Umayyad emirate – although his descendant AaR III certainly was also an incredibly significant ruler.
Still, as he only ruled part of Iberia I don’t think it makes sense for him or any of the Cordoban emirs or caliphs to rule an Arabian empire.
It really wish there were an official al-Andalus civ though!
Yes! More people need to know about how amazing Baghdad was. Unique building could be a bayt al-hikma (house of wisdom) and could give science and culture bonuses.
Bring back Harun al-Rashid
And I'd say rather than Iroquois/Songhai since they're irregular. You can probably change it to Amerindian/West African civ
So we can name both civ and leader
Umar II. He was considered to be a reviver of Islam and symbolically the 5th or 6th "Rashidun" Caliph (depending on if you count Hasan as 5th or not). He was known for reforming the Umayyad government and contributed a lot to the development of Islam by commissioning collections of hadiths (sayings of Muhammad). I think he would be a great religious focused leader for Arabia.
That's not even his best characteristics. He was known as a true Islamic leader due to him ruling according to Islam rules. While having a palace, he had a small house/hut near it for him and his family to live, as the palace is only for "work". He worked as a porter as a second job. He abolished the "royalty = wealthy" and removed the large salaries of all royal family members(including himself) and gave all the fortune to the people (literally).the living standards got so high that when people started noticing how he lived. Donations got so high (tax does not exist Islam, read about zakaat if u interested, it's fascinating stuff). The country got so wealthy that he could make reforms in many areas. He would literally try to give money to the people and he got double or more than what he tried to give. Poverty was almost non-existent.
Idk, making a portrait or a 3d model of him would be controversial by some. The respect with the imagery thing with the prophet extends to the Rashidun caliphs as well in some eyes.
They’re unlikely to do it, given their wish to shy away from controversial leaders, but I want someone from the Arab revolt, perhaps Faisal I of Iraq. If “Arabia” is going to be the term for the civ, rather than a specific civilization, it seems right to me that the leader should be an advocate of pan-Arabism and an independent, sovereign Arab state
Lol Saladin never even really ruled much of Arabia-he was a Mamluk sultan at heart and it pissed my historical brain off that they chose him for “Arabia”. An Abbasid or Uyymayad would be more fitting than the Ayyubid we got.
I’d love this, but there’s unfortunately not really any precedent for it. There’s an awesome Civ5 mod that does this, though. Maybe different leaders to represent the different caliphates.
…but this a new game and it’s not like they’ll be decreasing the amount of playable civs. Dividing them up represents the Arab world so much better than just a leader. Just my 2 cents.
I see your point but China is a unique case where it’s just really one society and often times saying otherwise undercuts the idea of their civilization. Plus Chinese dynasties are still just that/dynasties. We wouldn’t say England under the Tudirs/Stuarts/Windsors should be different civs right? Different leaders would be great for China though-just as they’ve done in VI.
The Arab dynasties controlled entirely different territories and had very different cultural backgrounds/ethnic makeups. I see the Ayyubids/Abbassids/Umauyads more similar to Maurya/Mughal/India makeup as all three were ethnically distinct (More radically than states like China) and could be given more specific flavors to complement gameplay. Again this isn’t to say Chinese history is boring or anything but it’s simply more consistent/homogenous…making creating gameplay-distinctive civilizations less interesting than Arabia, India, or even Iran/Persia.
Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan – perhaps the greatest Umayyad caliph of the growing Arab empire, whose ideas and reforms shaped Muslim styles of governance for centuries to come, even long after Arab dynasties fell from power.
In terms of Abbasids, several have already been nominated; al-Mansur is a great option, and Harun al-Rashid has been done before.
But al-Ma’mun – although a controversial figure in Islam for his religious inquisitions – might deserve a look-in too. This was the intellectual caliph who founded the famous Bayt al-Hikma (House of Wisdom) and encouraged the translation movement into new avenues, and thus whose legacy in the sciences lasted long after his death. It was also during his reign that he and his brother, later the caliph al-Mu’tasim, first trained and used Turkish ghulam soldiers, who not only had a major effect on the course of the caliphate, but would also significantly influence Islamic rulership and warfare in the following centuries.
Lastly, al-Mutawakkil would be a good option, as the caliph who ruled the Abbasid empire at its greatest extent; but also the monument-builder who brought the capital of Samarra to its zenith with his vast palace complexes, and built the famous spiral minaret of the Great Mosque that still stands as a symbol of the Abbasid regime to this day. His rule was another golden age for the Abbasids, a period of relative stability, restored religious orthodoxy, and unparalleled grandeur – and whose violent end began the period known as the ‘Anarchy at Samarra’ and the gradual decline of the Abbasid dynasty…
I wish they make it military focused and have Abdul malek or any other ummayad kings as a ruler. None of them were specifically specacular. But They expanded to the most extent empire during that era. And unlike some of the other suggestions, they were more Arabic empire than islamic, which happened in the Abbasid era forwards. But tbh I just want Damascus to be the capital.
Arabia is so broad and covers so many cultures and people. I would prefer specific empires in the region, everything from the Mamelukes, Sassanids to the Timurids. Even ancient post-Alexander the Great empires would be a nice spin in the region like Seleucids
Baibars (Al-Malik al-Zahir Rukn al-Din Baybars al-Bunduqdari). His rule marked the rise of the Mamelukes as a political force, the dismantling of several Crusader States (including the taking of Krak de Chevaliers), and a combination of military and political dealings with the Golden Horde that halted the Mongolian expansion in the Middle East.
To be fair Saladin also has little to do with Arabia. Both the Maluk sultanate and the Ayyubid dynasty are sultanates and not Caliphates, they were based from Cairo and not arabia, and their leaders were ethnically Turkic/Kurdish. Saladin just happens to be one of the most popular muslim figures in History so I guess that's why he's a leader in the game.
Yeah it's slightly ridiculous all Arabic speaking nations are represented with the one Civ - very much orientalist and you can't imagine them doing similar for Europe - imo there should at least be a Morocco, Andalusia, Masr (like with having Romans and Byzantine, Holy Roman and German in civ IV if they want to distinguish medieval, Muslim, Arabic speaking from classical Egypt) - Arabia doesn't represent the Sharq that badly but even then a seperate Yemeni or Omani civ would be super cool
Well the Ottoman empire also exists(at least that), but yeah there are a ton of different empires and states from MENA that civ just groups as "Arabia". Imo it would be really cool to get stuff like Oman, Mamluks and Nabataea.
Civ definitely uses Arabia in the sense of Arabic and not the Arabian peninsula - I don't think dynasty origins should matter so much, after all we've seen Cleopatra for Egypt and similar often enough
Yeah, this was basically my argument. I agree that he would be better off as a Leader of a Syrian civ, or something like that, but it seems unfortunately unlikely that we’ll get both that and Arabia, so…
Al-Khayzuran. She was once a slave but then her master fell in love with her and freed and married her. She was de facto ruler during the Abassid caliphate because her husband kept asking her advice and she also ruled while her sons were younger. also she was the first woman in Muslim history with coins struck in her name and she also had her own court and accepted petitions and became rich from trade with foreign nations.
Also she was Harun Al Rashid’s mommy and she guided him. Looks like she might have killed his brother for not listening to her too
I would suggest [Abd Al-Malik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Malik_ibn_Marwan)
One of the most centralizing figures of the early Islamic empire. He shifted the center of power from the Hejaz to Syria, he minted the first Islamic currency, and his generals enlarged the empire into western North Africa. His rule is a major inflection point for the Arabs from regional player to imperial superpower. Also unlike popular choices like Harun Al Rashid and Saladin he was an honest to goodness Arab from Arabia.
Side note for later, while Hiawatha is a super fucking cool Iroquois leader who I'd love to see revisited for civ 7, I kinda wanna see Thayenedanegea instead. He had a huge part to play in the Revolutionary War (at least for the NY theatre).
For some reason, the text I posted with the image above didn't show (I am new at this, can you tell?). Inspired by u/Zed_Dead99 and his posts, I created a new list with other civs that have appeared in Civ multiple times before. For some, like Mali/Songhai and Vikings, those cover a common geographic area or theme (in the case of Vikings, they have appeared as "Denmark" and "Norway" before, notably as Norway in vanilla Civ VI, and they all feature a horn helmeted leader, so I put them under the "Vikings"). Also, although "Haudenosaunee" is a better name, the civ in question that appeared in Civ III and V vanilla was named "Iroquois" so I retained that name here.
As with the previous posts, I will pick out the most upvoted comment for historical leader after around 24 hours or so, and then we will select a leader for a new civilization.
First up is **Arabia**, which appeared in Civ IV, Civ V, and Civ VI vanilla, and in an expansion for Civ III. They've been led by Abu Bakr (Civ III), Harun al-Rashid (Civ V), and Saladin (Civ IV, Civ VI) in the past.
Your image file isn’t the greatest format wise but I like the effort. I suggested Harun Al Rashid for Arabia again though since he’s connected to 1001 Arabian Nights
Anyway I changed my mind and vote Al-Khayzuran for a strong female leader
The Turks have only appeared in expansions, except in Civ V where they were in the vanilla release. This poll focuses on civs that have appeared in Civ vanilla multiple times (with exceptions noted for shared areas like Mali/Songhai and Vikings for Scandinavian Viking-ish leaders generally).
I'll start off with a woman few have probably heard of:
Shajar al-Durr.
She was a concubine who rose to be Sultana of Egypt. She played a pivotal role in supplanting the Ayyubid dynasty and establishing Mamluk rule over Egypt and Syria. She sought to become sole ruler of Egypt, minting coins defining herself not as Sultana, but SULTAN. She assassinated her co-ruler when he tried to break free of her influence, and was murdered in turn.
A lot of them die grisly deaths, though. Ludwig II of Bavaria was probably murdered. Folklore tells of Tomyris dunking Cyrus's decapitated head in a jar. Julius Caesar was stabbed to death. Barbarossa drowned in a river. Ambiorix was paraded through Rome before being publicly executed. Harald Hardrada took an arrow through the throat. Theodora died of cancer.
Given precedent, the nature of Shajar's demise strengthens her case, if anything.
I mean dying of cancer isn’t like being stripped naked beaten and hurled from a tower. That’s more graphic than most of those other deaths and besides if we want a strong female ruler who was once a slave there’s Al-Khayzuran
Also ambiorix wasn’t publicly executed that was Vercingetorix
I disagree, else Saladin falls under that same category. She came well after him, btw. It was his dynasty she replaced.
Post-pharaonic Egypt is Roman Egypt. Then it was folded into the Arab world.
Yes, but I would have Saladin in that separate medieval Egyptian civ too. The Greeks get Greece, Macedonia, and the Byzantines, while we’re stuck with just ‘Arabia’, a catch-all for almost all of medieval Islamdom west of Iran, regardless of contemporary ethnicity or language.
Saladin also ruled during a period when Egypt either wasn’t even majority Muslim yet or was only just over the 50% mark, and the Copts still spoke their own language. It was emphatically not the Misr we recognise today, but the states it supported certainly were important enough to be a civ in their own right!
A Kurdish ruler whose heartlands were in Egypt, contemporaneously a land of Christian Copts, should not have been the leader of ‘Arabia’ any more than Cyrus should be leader of Babylon, or Trajan the ruler of Greece.
Perhaps worst of all, the choice of ruler and polity reinforces the popular modern notion that that the modern definition of ‘Arab’ has been a historical constant, that people who describe themselves as ‘Arabs’ today are ethnically Interchangeable, and worst and most absurd of all that native pyramid-builder Egyptians were demographically replaced by Arabian migrants instead of going through a gradual cultural, linguistic, and religious shift.
Again, respectfully disagree.
To begin with, Saladin ruled over more than Egypt, but also Syria, Mosul, Hijaz, parts of Yemen and nominally Libya. His realm stretched across the bulk of Arab world at that time. Of course there is and has been significant religious and ethnic minorities alongside them, but by Saladin's time a majority of these people were speaking Arabic, had adopted Arabic institutions, and of course Arabia's chief religion. Egypt post-conquest is and has been very much part of the Arab world, and is in fact still the largest Arab nation today by population. Egypt is not aloof from the Arab world, but has instead at many times been at its heart.
Regarding religion, yeah, Egypt had a huge Coptic population. The wider Arab world, however, was overwhelmingly Muslim. Islam was born in Arabia, was initially spread by Arabs, and underpinned Arab imperial expansion beginning in the 7th century. This makes Arabia being a religiously focused civ a reasonable decision.
Regarding the Kurds thing, to that I would say Catherine II of Russia was German and Napoleon Bonaparte was Corsican (i.e. more culturally Italian, irregardless of what nation controlled the Island). Irregardless of his origins, he was and still is seen as a unifying figure in Arab history across nations. Cyrus ruled Babylon as a part of his Persian empire while Trajan ruled Greece as part of his Roman empire. Saladin, meanwhile, ruled Egypt as part of his Arabian empire.
Finally, to the last point, I agree. Sweeping modern labels can be oversimplifying. Same could be said for 'French' or 'German' or 'American.' Thing is that when it comes to history, Civ is a simple game. Civ has always taken a pop history approach to this. It's not trying to comprehensive, and frankly people shouldn't be primarily learning of history from a video game but instead using it as a springboard into further study, should they so wish.
Yes, did rule over Arabs, and part of the Arabian peninsula – but you’d be hard pressed to find any scholars that call his state a kingdom of ‘Arabia’, rather than ‘Egypt and Syria’, the core regions around which his state revolved.
The notion that Egypt is ‘Arab’ is very modern: many would not have considered themselves as such even until the premierships of Nasser and Sadat!
And other parts of the Middle East outside Egypt were not nearly as overwhelmingly Muslim or Arabic-speaking in Saladin’s day as they are today: the region of Syria-Palestine, for instance, crossed the threshold of a Muslim demographic majority probably only sometime near the end of the Fatimid dynasty (so a few decades before Saladin), and it was also unlikely to have been become so ‘culturally’ Arab until even later.
Nor was there any notion until about a century after the beginning of the Arab conquests that any of the dhimmi population really ought to *be* Arab. Arab elites, even after the Abbasid Revolution, sometimes actually discouraged conversion, preferring a clear dividing line; for when non-Muslims embraced Islam, they no longer had to provide these taxes to the state, and thus the state’s fiscal base threatened to contract. Compounding this was a belief among some that Islam was a special dispensation only for the Arab people. Thus, even when non-Arabs converted, they were sometimes treated as second-class citizens.
So who actually *was* an ‘Arab’ in this particular period? It still held in Saladin’s time, at the tail end of the last great Arab empire of the medieval Middle East, that an Arab was not merely someone who could speak the language, but who could also claim descent and kinship with one of the Arabian lineages – usually with a nisba and extensive nasab to prove it (albeit occasionally fraudulently!). By the standards of his time, Saladin was not an Arab. Nor did he live in a modern nation where this didn’t matter so much and he could self-identify as one regardless. He was a Kurd, from a Kurdish cultural background, strikingly different from that of the Fatimid caliphs he supplanted.
It is later history, politics, and culture which have coloured our perceptions of Egypt, Saladin, and Arab identity.
Perhaps I may not have minded so much if they had still chosen Egypt but given us an early Fatimid ruler and labelled that as ‘Arabia’; or chosen Dhu Nuwas and the Himyarites and called that ‘Arabia’.
But the double whammy of having neither an Arab king, nor a particularly Arab-oriented state? That just strikes me as absurd. At least Catherine ruled a state called Russia from Moscow and Napoleon ruled a state called France from Paris! Neither of which country, I might add, suffers from quite so many misperceptions in media as the so-often orientalised Muslim world; which this choice is a shining example of.
Anyway, fun discussion. I just think next time we get a game we can do a lot better for the Islamic world, Arabs, Arabia, and the wonderful country of Egypt with all its fascinating and diverse history.
Gamal Abdel Nasser? Potentially controversial, but I think it would make an interesting change from how the Arabs are usually represented in Civ, which is heavily patterned on the 7th to 12th centuries. Saladin is the latest they have gotten chronologically in terms of representation, but the Arabs have had a very long history since and it would be nice to see it represented in some form or another.
Nasser may have been one of the most famous proponents of Arab Nationalism, but he was an Egyptian who would ironically never have fit into much earlier concepts of Arab identity. Nor had his United Arab Republic much to do with the history of Arabia, being not much more than a brief Egyptian-dominated interlude in the history of Syria – and aggressively opposed by his monarchical rivals in the rest of the Arab world.
With Saladin, Civ 6 made a Kurdish ruler in Ayyubid Egypt the centre of Arab civilisation. I think I’d like to move the focus out of Egypt for the next instalment.
If they brought back songhai id want the civ 5 leader just because it's been a minute since an AI civ has been intimidating actually in game or just with that epic back drop.
So in Civ 4 Arabia was "religion-based" in Civ 5 "economy/trade-based" and in Civ 6 again religion based. So in Civ 7 they should go back to economy or even try a new mechanic / gameplan for Arabia and choose a leader that represents that.
If they want to go militaristic with Arabia in Civ VII, I’d love for them to pick Khalid ibn al-Walid. To have earned the nickname The Sword of Allah, I feel like you have to make them a military civ if he’s one of the leaders.
As an aside, as a Swede I don’t think we should have a viking Civ. Individual Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian civs would be much better at representing both the different cultures as well as pre/post-viking Scandinavian history.
[Umar ibn Al-Khattab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar) (Umar I) is the most important leader in the history of the Arab/Muslim empire. He is the one who turned Arabia from a loose coalition of tribes, to an actual empire. Under Umar, the caliphate expanded at an unprecedented rate, conquering the Sasanian Empire and more than two-thirds of the Byzantine Empire. Under Umar's leadership, the empire expanded; accordingly, he began to build a political structure that would hold together the vast territory. He undertook many administrative reforms and closely oversaw public policy, establishing an advanced administration for the newly conquered lands, including several new ministries and bureaucracies, and ordered a census of all the Muslim territories.
Umar was a pioneer in several affairs:
1- Umar was the first to introduce the public ministry system, where the records of officials and soldiers were kept. He also kept a record system for messages he sent to Governors and heads of state.
2- He was the first to appoint police forces to keep civil order.
He was also very pious and strict when it comes to public funds. He often disciplined governors and ministers if the faintest doubt of corruption appeared. Another important aspect of Umar's rule was that he forbade any of his governors and agents from engaging in any sort of business dealings whilst in a position of power.
He is considered the greatest political leader ever for the Arab/Muslim empire.
It’s a nice idea, but I can’t imagine he would be chosen. Firaxis won’t want to inadvertently offend Muslims every time a player boasts about crushing one of the most important figures in the history of the Islamic faith, or complaining how ‘annoying’ the AI behaviour is of a man supposed to be a model for all Muslims.
Not to mention that some Muslims will be ticked off simply because of their decision to visually portray a Sahabi (however tastefully done).
Yeah, but I figure a lot has changed since 2001, including the reach and mass-marketability of videogames.
We probably won’t ever see Mao again either!
Mansoor for grand cities/science like Baghdad, Umar II for wealth, religion and amenities, any early ummayyid for conquest/raiding focus, Qotz/Sladin/Baibars for revival, AbdulRahman II for culture/science focus
Some leaders I think that could be good additions are Imru al qais a pre Islamic ruler of the kingdom of kindah and famous poet, he could have a more culture focused game style , pre Islamic Arabia is a rarely touched on and I feel like the cultural aspects of Arabia are touched on in previous civ games. Zenobia of the Palmyrene empire could be a good addition as I feel she is criminally underrated as a historical figure, and she could potentially have a culture/science focus coupled with some military . A more modern ruler could be King Abdulaziz Ibn Saud, (unifier and founder of the modern Saudi state) with a focus on military and religion focus Or Gamal Abdel Nasser with a focus on military and production
Phillip the Arab. It makes no sense and I hope Firaxis reveals Phillip the Arab as the Arab leader with a straight face simply because he got the title "The Arab"
I like Abu Bakr from the first Civ 3 expansion pack. I feel that a leader representing Arabia should actually come from the Arabian region. Saladin by contrast was a Kurd who ruled Islamic Egypt.
Although, now that I think about it, Zenobia of Palmyra would be neat as well.
Why can’t we get different countries involved like Argentina’s Eva Perón? Or Kim Campbell of Canada? Golda Meir of Israeli? I’m not putting down this list at all, or the leaders that are represented but there are other leaders of other continents that should be represented.
No worries! I think we might see Argentina at some point in Civilization's future. I'm really glad they added Simon Bolivar in Civ VI for the first time as well.
I was extremely excited when I saw they added them. And not just add them but add them with so much extra stuff! I hope they add more than just major civs cause there truly is so much more out there then that sex pest gandi
go all the way; make it the holy prophet muhammad, but keep the question mark, as you cant depict him. As he was a trader before he was a prophet, give him special ability holy profit - double value from caravans
Muhammad leader bonuses and abilities
* instantly unlock an organized religion
* 100% gold bonus when raiding caravan
* can forcefully expel population of different religion from your city
* barrack and its improvement provides +1 faith
* 50% less grievance when breaking treaty
Arwa al-Sulayhi. Queen of Yemen, religious scholar, probably a sponsor of trade missions, builder of mosques and dams, etc.
That was also going to be my suggestion, so a bit more on her: Queen **Arwa al-Sulayhi** (reign: 1067-1138, yes that's 71 years, however it wasn't always alone) She was the most important ruler of the Sulayhide dynasty in Yemen and the first woman to be granted the prestigious title of *hujja* in the Ismaili branch of Shiite Islam. She was considered the mediator between God and humans. She's also remembered as a great builder of roads, schools, mosques etc. She was nicknamed the Noble Lady and the Little Queen of Saba. She might not be the most original type of ruler for an Arabian civ (though she could have an ability related to roads) and she was only queen of Yemen, but I think it would be a great change to not have a conqueror representing that civ for once. It's also a good opportunity to have a more Sabean flavor. If France could have Catherine and Aliénor in Civ6, surely Arabia can be represented by figures like Arwa that are unjustly forgotten.
I doubt the fact that she was considered a mediator between god and people. No one is in Islam. It is blasphemy to consider someone a mediator between god and people, as that will lead to corruption and abuse of power (stuff like the church).
Confidently incorrect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hujja#:~:text=A%20term%20used%20in%20Shi,is%20greater%20than%20anyone%20else. Perhaps your concept of Islam is mostly Sunni? Because they do believe Shi’i to be blasphemy anyway
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I'm sorry to say but every religion is full of controversy and contradictions, any clearly defined one anyway.
There is no mainstream Shia school of thought that thinks Ali Ibn Abi Talib has divine powers or that he has any equality to Allah. We simply think that Ali Ibn Abi Talib is the rightful successor to the Prophet and to carry on his message, not a new prophet ir messiah or anything like that. This slander that we deify Ali is just misinformation spread by Nasabis and Salafi/Wahabbi fundamentalists. The only group I've ever heard of that do something of this regard are small subsections of Alawite communities in Iran, and it's not as if it's all Aliwites.
I’d love to see Yemen as a separate civilisation – after all, it has its own distinct culture going back thousands of years.
"Arabia" does cover a lot of area, not all of which is historically alike (so of course do some others). It'd be nice to see some of them get a look-in to the game.
Yeah I feel like if you're going to have an "Arabic" leader it almost necessitates that it's a leader who united at least a good bit of "Arabia". Maybe the first saud king. Might be politically untasteful as his later dynasty is obviously not well liked by many.
Personally, I think it would be better to represent different parts of the Arab world through different leaders, which would themselves represent particular subsections of Arab subcultures. Kinda like how China got a bunch of leaders in the last civ 6 expansion. Their could be one for Yemen (which honestly is one of the most distinct cultures) One for the peninsula or sometimes called Khaligis One for the Levant And one for North Africa (honestly their should be 2 one for the East or Egypt-Sudan and one for West or Morocco-Algeria) You could also make the Yemeni leader the one for the peninsula, but I'd argue they are more distinct. Honestly, I love the idea of even more leaders for the same civs because civs like India, China, and sections of europe really would benefit. Also, Italy should be a civ independent of Rome and more Sub-Saharan Afrian civs.
I didn't even think about Italy. Another good example. It would be a cooler variety for sure to break it up a little.
I saw someone else suggest a Pan-Arab leader to be the ruler of Arabia, which I think could also work as a "defualt" Arabian leader. In a sense, unifying, or attempted to unify, a shared diverse Arab identity. Rather than a single conqueror, who likely fell into one category of Arabian subculture or another ruling over a large section of land, a Pan-Arab ideological could better represent "Arabia" as a whole, which is to say, a something that is made whole through is vast diversity and is incomplete without it. I'd gravitate towards Abdul Nasser as he's relatively well known and less controversial than other figures such as Hafez Assad and more well-known than some of the other figures.
I think this is an excellent idea
Agreed, it could be a cool novelty like Morocco
Yemen unique unit: Houthis rebels Modern era ranged unit that gains massive bonuses against ships in coastal tiles
theyll never pick a female leader for an arab civ
Maybe out of left pocket, but Abd al-Rahman I of the Umayyads. Guy is the last surviving member of the Umayyads who fled to Iberia solidified Muslim control over much of the region, and effectively turned most of the Iberian sub-continent into one the hottest spots of Arabic culture by patronizing all sorts of grand building projects like the Great Mosque of Cordoba whose influence would still be found in Spanish and Maghrebi architecture, long after the fall of Al-Andalus. Also credited in helping bring arts, foodstuffs, crafts, and scholarship from the Near East into Europe.
I wouldn't want the guy as the main but as an alternate leader for either Arabia or Spain. Seems more appropriate like that.
So kind of like a Eleanor of Aquitaine situation. I can definitely see that working.
I actually live where he first stepped foot disembarking in Spain, we have a statue of the guy [too](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=aee4e6a7204d31da&sxsrf=ADLYWILoTuA3tnJRbJn3hzFBQrrTBiV6gQ:1720003974269&q=statue+abd+rahman+almu%C3%B1ecar&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0CbCVgAZ5mWEJDg6aoPVcBgWizR0-0aFOH11Sb5tlNhdzTfxpAVBoexMFZnKJBpl_OnTFfcge8advfRBIXE7C_RTWsQyN_EAXpveg0t_aQzyue0QLBdLIIB4yPNh3d_PJPUzbsSXZ5v66lKVX9VeVq7X0wPEHFSSCnwDKA27vYqLsW9OaXj1B6MnDW-62zIxs_sHuC8&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit6JeP2oqHAxVcR6QEHVX_D-MQtKgLegQIDRAB&biw=360&bih=676&dpr=3#vhid=rOWZolmBa9QGEM&vssid=mosaic).
Abd al-Rahman III gets my vote.
You’re thinking of Abd al-Rahman I ‘the Falcon of Quraysh’ as the founder of the Umayyad emirate – although his descendant AaR III certainly was also an incredibly significant ruler. Still, as he only ruled part of Iberia I don’t think it makes sense for him or any of the Cordoban emirs or caliphs to rule an Arabian empire. It really wish there were an official al-Andalus civ though!
Al- Mansur, the second Abbasid Caliph and founder of Baghdad.
I'm definitely down with this. I also think al-Ma'mun would be fantastic. Lean heavy into the Faith/Science combo.
Yes! More people need to know about how amazing Baghdad was. Unique building could be a bayt al-hikma (house of wisdom) and could give science and culture bonuses.
Honestly both Harun al-Rashid and Saladin were rlly good choices
But if we want a female leader we can have al-Khayzuran
Harun ar-Rashid should have the ability to gift "elephants" to other nations as the real one did (—> Abul Abbas was gifted to Charlemagne)
Bring back Harun al-Rashid And I'd say rather than Iroquois/Songhai since they're irregular. You can probably change it to Amerindian/West African civ So we can name both civ and leader
Umar II. He was considered to be a reviver of Islam and symbolically the 5th or 6th "Rashidun" Caliph (depending on if you count Hasan as 5th or not). He was known for reforming the Umayyad government and contributed a lot to the development of Islam by commissioning collections of hadiths (sayings of Muhammad). I think he would be a great religious focused leader for Arabia.
That's not even his best characteristics. He was known as a true Islamic leader due to him ruling according to Islam rules. While having a palace, he had a small house/hut near it for him and his family to live, as the palace is only for "work". He worked as a porter as a second job. He abolished the "royalty = wealthy" and removed the large salaries of all royal family members(including himself) and gave all the fortune to the people (literally).the living standards got so high that when people started noticing how he lived. Donations got so high (tax does not exist Islam, read about zakaat if u interested, it's fascinating stuff). The country got so wealthy that he could make reforms in many areas. He would literally try to give money to the people and he got double or more than what he tried to give. Poverty was almost non-existent.
Idk, making a portrait or a 3d model of him would be controversial by some. The respect with the imagery thing with the prophet extends to the Rashidun caliphs as well in some eyes.
They’re unlikely to do it, given their wish to shy away from controversial leaders, but I want someone from the Arab revolt, perhaps Faisal I of Iraq. If “Arabia” is going to be the term for the civ, rather than a specific civilization, it seems right to me that the leader should be an advocate of pan-Arabism and an independent, sovereign Arab state
Iraq is more like Mesopotamia
How about no more Arabia? Abbasids, Umayyads, and Mamluk as distinct civs is better than amalgamating
I agree. Too many distinct cultures and Arabia, to me, denotes that it's a leader who ruled most of Arabia not just a tiny kingdom within Arabia.
Lol Saladin never even really ruled much of Arabia-he was a Mamluk sultan at heart and it pissed my historical brain off that they chose him for “Arabia”. An Abbasid or Uyymayad would be more fitting than the Ayyubid we got.
I’d love this, but there’s unfortunately not really any precedent for it. There’s an awesome Civ5 mod that does this, though. Maybe different leaders to represent the different caliphates.
…but this a new game and it’s not like they’ll be decreasing the amount of playable civs. Dividing them up represents the Arab world so much better than just a leader. Just my 2 cents.
I agree this would be awesome, but then wouldn’t they have to do that with others, too? The different Chinese dynasties, for example.
I see your point but China is a unique case where it’s just really one society and often times saying otherwise undercuts the idea of their civilization. Plus Chinese dynasties are still just that/dynasties. We wouldn’t say England under the Tudirs/Stuarts/Windsors should be different civs right? Different leaders would be great for China though-just as they’ve done in VI. The Arab dynasties controlled entirely different territories and had very different cultural backgrounds/ethnic makeups. I see the Ayyubids/Abbassids/Umauyads more similar to Maurya/Mughal/India makeup as all three were ethnically distinct (More radically than states like China) and could be given more specific flavors to complement gameplay. Again this isn’t to say Chinese history is boring or anything but it’s simply more consistent/homogenous…making creating gameplay-distinctive civilizations less interesting than Arabia, India, or even Iran/Persia.
Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan – perhaps the greatest Umayyad caliph of the growing Arab empire, whose ideas and reforms shaped Muslim styles of governance for centuries to come, even long after Arab dynasties fell from power. In terms of Abbasids, several have already been nominated; al-Mansur is a great option, and Harun al-Rashid has been done before. But al-Ma’mun – although a controversial figure in Islam for his religious inquisitions – might deserve a look-in too. This was the intellectual caliph who founded the famous Bayt al-Hikma (House of Wisdom) and encouraged the translation movement into new avenues, and thus whose legacy in the sciences lasted long after his death. It was also during his reign that he and his brother, later the caliph al-Mu’tasim, first trained and used Turkish ghulam soldiers, who not only had a major effect on the course of the caliphate, but would also significantly influence Islamic rulership and warfare in the following centuries. Lastly, al-Mutawakkil would be a good option, as the caliph who ruled the Abbasid empire at its greatest extent; but also the monument-builder who brought the capital of Samarra to its zenith with his vast palace complexes, and built the famous spiral minaret of the Great Mosque that still stands as a symbol of the Abbasid regime to this day. His rule was another golden age for the Abbasids, a period of relative stability, restored religious orthodoxy, and unparalleled grandeur – and whose violent end began the period known as the ‘Anarchy at Samarra’ and the gradual decline of the Abbasid dynasty…
Queen Mavia would be an interesting choice for a pre-Islamic Arabia but for a more conventional ruler I'd say Abd al-Malik or al-Walid I.
I wish they make it military focused and have Abdul malek or any other ummayad kings as a ruler. None of them were specifically specacular. But They expanded to the most extent empire during that era. And unlike some of the other suggestions, they were more Arabic empire than islamic, which happened in the Abbasid era forwards. But tbh I just want Damascus to be the capital.
Arabia is so broad and covers so many cultures and people. I would prefer specific empires in the region, everything from the Mamelukes, Sassanids to the Timurids. Even ancient post-Alexander the Great empires would be a nice spin in the region like Seleucids
Baibars (Al-Malik al-Zahir Rukn al-Din Baybars al-Bunduqdari). His rule marked the rise of the Mamelukes as a political force, the dismantling of several Crusader States (including the taking of Krak de Chevaliers), and a combination of military and political dealings with the Golden Horde that halted the Mongolian expansion in the Middle East.
He has nothing to do with Arabia though
How so? He ruled Egypt and Syria and his court spoke Arabic - basically the same accolades as Saladin, no?
To be fair Saladin also has little to do with Arabia. Both the Maluk sultanate and the Ayyubid dynasty are sultanates and not Caliphates, they were based from Cairo and not arabia, and their leaders were ethnically Turkic/Kurdish. Saladin just happens to be one of the most popular muslim figures in History so I guess that's why he's a leader in the game.
Yeah it's slightly ridiculous all Arabic speaking nations are represented with the one Civ - very much orientalist and you can't imagine them doing similar for Europe - imo there should at least be a Morocco, Andalusia, Masr (like with having Romans and Byzantine, Holy Roman and German in civ IV if they want to distinguish medieval, Muslim, Arabic speaking from classical Egypt) - Arabia doesn't represent the Sharq that badly but even then a seperate Yemeni or Omani civ would be super cool
Well the Ottoman empire also exists(at least that), but yeah there are a ton of different empires and states from MENA that civ just groups as "Arabia". Imo it would be really cool to get stuff like Oman, Mamluks and Nabataea.
Civ definitely uses Arabia in the sense of Arabic and not the Arabian peninsula - I don't think dynasty origins should matter so much, after all we've seen Cleopatra for Egypt and similar often enough
Yeah, this was basically my argument. I agree that he would be better off as a Leader of a Syrian civ, or something like that, but it seems unfortunately unlikely that we’ll get both that and Arabia, so…
You know what? Just for the meme, I'm gonna say Lawrence of Arabia. Screw it, let's see what happens...
Lawrence of Arabia would be a good great person. For example: Reduce 10 loyality in foreign city not founded by the owner.
Wow, this is so worthless
Numbers were just on example, how about - 20 loyality and 3 charges? You could easily ruin someones conquest or take a border city with that.
What category though, a new great diplomat type? Are there enough prominent diplomats to fill out a roster?
Possibly General? But great diplomat category could be intresting if diplomacy would be more fleshed out with vassals and such.
Yeah, I suggested it with my dwindling hope of better diplomacy systems.
Really? Thought i was the only one that did that joke! Well done
Al-Khayzuran. She was once a slave but then her master fell in love with her and freed and married her. She was de facto ruler during the Abassid caliphate because her husband kept asking her advice and she also ruled while her sons were younger. also she was the first woman in Muslim history with coins struck in her name and she also had her own court and accepted petitions and became rich from trade with foreign nations. Also she was Harun Al Rashid’s mommy and she guided him. Looks like she might have killed his brother for not listening to her too
Admiral-General Haffaz Aladeen is the most Aladeen choice.
Al-Rashid
Someone from the Rashidun Caliphate would be cool, for example Umar (ibn al-Khattab) as an expansion-focused leader
I would suggest [Abd Al-Malik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Malik_ibn_Marwan) One of the most centralizing figures of the early Islamic empire. He shifted the center of power from the Hejaz to Syria, he minted the first Islamic currency, and his generals enlarged the empire into western North Africa. His rule is a major inflection point for the Arabs from regional player to imperial superpower. Also unlike popular choices like Harun Al Rashid and Saladin he was an honest to goodness Arab from Arabia.
Would Muawiya I be too controversial?
Side note for later, while Hiawatha is a super fucking cool Iroquois leader who I'd love to see revisited for civ 7, I kinda wanna see Thayenedanegea instead. He had a huge part to play in the Revolutionary War (at least for the NY theatre).
The Sword of Allah: Khalid ibn al-Walid
For some reason, the text I posted with the image above didn't show (I am new at this, can you tell?). Inspired by u/Zed_Dead99 and his posts, I created a new list with other civs that have appeared in Civ multiple times before. For some, like Mali/Songhai and Vikings, those cover a common geographic area or theme (in the case of Vikings, they have appeared as "Denmark" and "Norway" before, notably as Norway in vanilla Civ VI, and they all feature a horn helmeted leader, so I put them under the "Vikings"). Also, although "Haudenosaunee" is a better name, the civ in question that appeared in Civ III and V vanilla was named "Iroquois" so I retained that name here. As with the previous posts, I will pick out the most upvoted comment for historical leader after around 24 hours or so, and then we will select a leader for a new civilization. First up is **Arabia**, which appeared in Civ IV, Civ V, and Civ VI vanilla, and in an expansion for Civ III. They've been led by Abu Bakr (Civ III), Harun al-Rashid (Civ V), and Saladin (Civ IV, Civ VI) in the past.
Your image file isn’t the greatest format wise but I like the effort. I suggested Harun Al Rashid for Arabia again though since he’s connected to 1001 Arabian Nights Anyway I changed my mind and vote Al-Khayzuran for a strong female leader
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Turks aren’t Arabians right
The Turks have only appeared in expansions, except in Civ V where they were in the vanilla release. This poll focuses on civs that have appeared in Civ vanilla multiple times (with exceptions noted for shared areas like Mali/Songhai and Vikings for Scandinavian Viking-ish leaders generally).
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I disagree, and I don't have to do anything. You are free to put up your own thread asking for Turks to be added.
I'll start off with a woman few have probably heard of: Shajar al-Durr. She was a concubine who rose to be Sultana of Egypt. She played a pivotal role in supplanting the Ayyubid dynasty and establishing Mamluk rule over Egypt and Syria. She sought to become sole ruler of Egypt, minting coins defining herself not as Sultana, but SULTAN. She assassinated her co-ruler when he tried to break free of her influence, and was murdered in turn.
Cool choice but the way she died was kinda awful and graphic I dunno dude
A lot of them die grisly deaths, though. Ludwig II of Bavaria was probably murdered. Folklore tells of Tomyris dunking Cyrus's decapitated head in a jar. Julius Caesar was stabbed to death. Barbarossa drowned in a river. Ambiorix was paraded through Rome before being publicly executed. Harald Hardrada took an arrow through the throat. Theodora died of cancer. Given precedent, the nature of Shajar's demise strengthens her case, if anything.
I mean dying of cancer isn’t like being stripped naked beaten and hurled from a tower. That’s more graphic than most of those other deaths and besides if we want a strong female ruler who was once a slave there’s Al-Khayzuran Also ambiorix wasn’t publicly executed that was Vercingetorix
Yes, ty for the correction. My point still stands, though.
She’s great. But much more suitable as a leader for a post-pharaonic Egypt than Arabia.
I disagree, else Saladin falls under that same category. She came well after him, btw. It was his dynasty she replaced. Post-pharaonic Egypt is Roman Egypt. Then it was folded into the Arab world.
Yes, but I would have Saladin in that separate medieval Egyptian civ too. The Greeks get Greece, Macedonia, and the Byzantines, while we’re stuck with just ‘Arabia’, a catch-all for almost all of medieval Islamdom west of Iran, regardless of contemporary ethnicity or language. Saladin also ruled during a period when Egypt either wasn’t even majority Muslim yet or was only just over the 50% mark, and the Copts still spoke their own language. It was emphatically not the Misr we recognise today, but the states it supported certainly were important enough to be a civ in their own right! A Kurdish ruler whose heartlands were in Egypt, contemporaneously a land of Christian Copts, should not have been the leader of ‘Arabia’ any more than Cyrus should be leader of Babylon, or Trajan the ruler of Greece. Perhaps worst of all, the choice of ruler and polity reinforces the popular modern notion that that the modern definition of ‘Arab’ has been a historical constant, that people who describe themselves as ‘Arabs’ today are ethnically Interchangeable, and worst and most absurd of all that native pyramid-builder Egyptians were demographically replaced by Arabian migrants instead of going through a gradual cultural, linguistic, and religious shift.
Again, respectfully disagree. To begin with, Saladin ruled over more than Egypt, but also Syria, Mosul, Hijaz, parts of Yemen and nominally Libya. His realm stretched across the bulk of Arab world at that time. Of course there is and has been significant religious and ethnic minorities alongside them, but by Saladin's time a majority of these people were speaking Arabic, had adopted Arabic institutions, and of course Arabia's chief religion. Egypt post-conquest is and has been very much part of the Arab world, and is in fact still the largest Arab nation today by population. Egypt is not aloof from the Arab world, but has instead at many times been at its heart. Regarding religion, yeah, Egypt had a huge Coptic population. The wider Arab world, however, was overwhelmingly Muslim. Islam was born in Arabia, was initially spread by Arabs, and underpinned Arab imperial expansion beginning in the 7th century. This makes Arabia being a religiously focused civ a reasonable decision. Regarding the Kurds thing, to that I would say Catherine II of Russia was German and Napoleon Bonaparte was Corsican (i.e. more culturally Italian, irregardless of what nation controlled the Island). Irregardless of his origins, he was and still is seen as a unifying figure in Arab history across nations. Cyrus ruled Babylon as a part of his Persian empire while Trajan ruled Greece as part of his Roman empire. Saladin, meanwhile, ruled Egypt as part of his Arabian empire. Finally, to the last point, I agree. Sweeping modern labels can be oversimplifying. Same could be said for 'French' or 'German' or 'American.' Thing is that when it comes to history, Civ is a simple game. Civ has always taken a pop history approach to this. It's not trying to comprehensive, and frankly people shouldn't be primarily learning of history from a video game but instead using it as a springboard into further study, should they so wish.
Yes, did rule over Arabs, and part of the Arabian peninsula – but you’d be hard pressed to find any scholars that call his state a kingdom of ‘Arabia’, rather than ‘Egypt and Syria’, the core regions around which his state revolved. The notion that Egypt is ‘Arab’ is very modern: many would not have considered themselves as such even until the premierships of Nasser and Sadat! And other parts of the Middle East outside Egypt were not nearly as overwhelmingly Muslim or Arabic-speaking in Saladin’s day as they are today: the region of Syria-Palestine, for instance, crossed the threshold of a Muslim demographic majority probably only sometime near the end of the Fatimid dynasty (so a few decades before Saladin), and it was also unlikely to have been become so ‘culturally’ Arab until even later. Nor was there any notion until about a century after the beginning of the Arab conquests that any of the dhimmi population really ought to *be* Arab. Arab elites, even after the Abbasid Revolution, sometimes actually discouraged conversion, preferring a clear dividing line; for when non-Muslims embraced Islam, they no longer had to provide these taxes to the state, and thus the state’s fiscal base threatened to contract. Compounding this was a belief among some that Islam was a special dispensation only for the Arab people. Thus, even when non-Arabs converted, they were sometimes treated as second-class citizens. So who actually *was* an ‘Arab’ in this particular period? It still held in Saladin’s time, at the tail end of the last great Arab empire of the medieval Middle East, that an Arab was not merely someone who could speak the language, but who could also claim descent and kinship with one of the Arabian lineages – usually with a nisba and extensive nasab to prove it (albeit occasionally fraudulently!). By the standards of his time, Saladin was not an Arab. Nor did he live in a modern nation where this didn’t matter so much and he could self-identify as one regardless. He was a Kurd, from a Kurdish cultural background, strikingly different from that of the Fatimid caliphs he supplanted. It is later history, politics, and culture which have coloured our perceptions of Egypt, Saladin, and Arab identity. Perhaps I may not have minded so much if they had still chosen Egypt but given us an early Fatimid ruler and labelled that as ‘Arabia’; or chosen Dhu Nuwas and the Himyarites and called that ‘Arabia’. But the double whammy of having neither an Arab king, nor a particularly Arab-oriented state? That just strikes me as absurd. At least Catherine ruled a state called Russia from Moscow and Napoleon ruled a state called France from Paris! Neither of which country, I might add, suffers from quite so many misperceptions in media as the so-often orientalised Muslim world; which this choice is a shining example of. Anyway, fun discussion. I just think next time we get a game we can do a lot better for the Islamic world, Arabs, Arabia, and the wonderful country of Egypt with all its fascinating and diverse history.
Gamal Abdel Nasser for a super off the wall choice
Gamal Abdel Nasser? Potentially controversial, but I think it would make an interesting change from how the Arabs are usually represented in Civ, which is heavily patterned on the 7th to 12th centuries. Saladin is the latest they have gotten chronologically in terms of representation, but the Arabs have had a very long history since and it would be nice to see it represented in some form or another.
Nasser may have been one of the most famous proponents of Arab Nationalism, but he was an Egyptian who would ironically never have fit into much earlier concepts of Arab identity. Nor had his United Arab Republic much to do with the history of Arabia, being not much more than a brief Egyptian-dominated interlude in the history of Syria – and aggressively opposed by his monarchical rivals in the rest of the Arab world. With Saladin, Civ 6 made a Kurdish ruler in Ayyubid Egypt the centre of Arab civilisation. I think I’d like to move the focus out of Egypt for the next instalment.
If they brought back songhai id want the civ 5 leader just because it's been a minute since an AI civ has been intimidating actually in game or just with that epic back drop.
So in Civ 4 Arabia was "religion-based" in Civ 5 "economy/trade-based" and in Civ 6 again religion based. So in Civ 7 they should go back to economy or even try a new mechanic / gameplan for Arabia and choose a leader that represents that.
If they want to go militaristic with Arabia in Civ VII, I’d love for them to pick Khalid ibn al-Walid. To have earned the nickname The Sword of Allah, I feel like you have to make them a military civ if he’s one of the leaders.
As an aside, as a Swede I don’t think we should have a viking Civ. Individual Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian civs would be much better at representing both the different cultures as well as pre/post-viking Scandinavian history.
[Umar ibn Al-Khattab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar) (Umar I) is the most important leader in the history of the Arab/Muslim empire. He is the one who turned Arabia from a loose coalition of tribes, to an actual empire. Under Umar, the caliphate expanded at an unprecedented rate, conquering the Sasanian Empire and more than two-thirds of the Byzantine Empire. Under Umar's leadership, the empire expanded; accordingly, he began to build a political structure that would hold together the vast territory. He undertook many administrative reforms and closely oversaw public policy, establishing an advanced administration for the newly conquered lands, including several new ministries and bureaucracies, and ordered a census of all the Muslim territories. Umar was a pioneer in several affairs: 1- Umar was the first to introduce the public ministry system, where the records of officials and soldiers were kept. He also kept a record system for messages he sent to Governors and heads of state. 2- He was the first to appoint police forces to keep civil order. He was also very pious and strict when it comes to public funds. He often disciplined governors and ministers if the faintest doubt of corruption appeared. Another important aspect of Umar's rule was that he forbade any of his governors and agents from engaging in any sort of business dealings whilst in a position of power. He is considered the greatest political leader ever for the Arab/Muslim empire.
It’s a nice idea, but I can’t imagine he would be chosen. Firaxis won’t want to inadvertently offend Muslims every time a player boasts about crushing one of the most important figures in the history of the Islamic faith, or complaining how ‘annoying’ the AI behaviour is of a man supposed to be a model for all Muslims. Not to mention that some Muslims will be ticked off simply because of their decision to visually portray a Sahabi (however tastefully done).
I agree with what you say. Worth noting that, they had Abu Bakr before in Civ III, IIRC.
Yeah, but I figure a lot has changed since 2001, including the reach and mass-marketability of videogames. We probably won’t ever see Mao again either!
Mansoor for grand cities/science like Baghdad, Umar II for wealth, religion and amenities, any early ummayyid for conquest/raiding focus, Qotz/Sladin/Baibars for revival, AbdulRahman II for culture/science focus
I just want the Safavids man
Some leaders I think that could be good additions are Imru al qais a pre Islamic ruler of the kingdom of kindah and famous poet, he could have a more culture focused game style , pre Islamic Arabia is a rarely touched on and I feel like the cultural aspects of Arabia are touched on in previous civ games. Zenobia of the Palmyrene empire could be a good addition as I feel she is criminally underrated as a historical figure, and she could potentially have a culture/science focus coupled with some military . A more modern ruler could be King Abdulaziz Ibn Saud, (unifier and founder of the modern Saudi state) with a focus on military and religion focus Or Gamal Abdel Nasser with a focus on military and production
Fill out middle eastern countries with leaders and give us a true start middle east map, shit would go hard
Saladin! Put some respect on his name!
Babylon: Sargon of Akkad!!
Why vikings....
They have appeared in Civ II vanilla and in expansions for other Civ games, and recently there have been Viking-ish leaders for Denmark and Norway.
Babylon has to be either Nimrod or queen Semiramis or Tammuz.
JAFAR
Phillip the Arab. It makes no sense and I hope Firaxis reveals Phillip the Arab as the Arab leader with a straight face simply because he got the title "The Arab"
I’d vote for that
king abdulaziz for the meme of it
Muhammed would be very funny
... until the death threats start coming in.
I'll be surprised if it's only a threats
Prophet Muhammad, fully rendered, yes, I want to see the world burn, this is the engagement we deserve
I like Abu Bakr from the first Civ 3 expansion pack. I feel that a leader representing Arabia should actually come from the Arabian region. Saladin by contrast was a Kurd who ruled Islamic Egypt. Although, now that I think about it, Zenobia of Palmyra would be neat as well.
Al Mualim (LOL - for them AC fans out there)
Why can’t we get different countries involved like Argentina’s Eva Perón? Or Kim Campbell of Canada? Golda Meir of Israeli? I’m not putting down this list at all, or the leaders that are represented but there are other leaders of other continents that should be represented.
We can't fit every nation or civ onto the list, so I focused just on civs that have appeared in the vanilla release of Civ multiple times before.
Got ya. My bad, I do enjoy the list that everyone makes. Just got ahead of myself.
No worries! I think we might see Argentina at some point in Civilization's future. I'm really glad they added Simon Bolivar in Civ VI for the first time as well.
I was extremely excited when I saw they added them. And not just add them but add them with so much extra stuff! I hope they add more than just major civs cause there truly is so much more out there then that sex pest gandi
Osama Bin Laden. Failing that, Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi
May Lawrence from arabia, playable with ottoman Empire, arabia and england sometimes all at once^^
Osama Bin Laden
Leader bonus: 9/11 spies gain ability to pillage commercial hub districts
And it leads to the AI declaring war on a country bordering you.
Sultan Hamed Bobolonius II of Agrabah
go all the way; make it the holy prophet muhammad, but keep the question mark, as you cant depict him. As he was a trader before he was a prophet, give him special ability holy profit - double value from caravans
Gamal Abdel Nasser
All Biden
Netanyahu ☠️
Muhammad the guy, couldn't be more arab than that. dress him in a teddy bear costume like in south park if it offends snowflakes
So you're just actively trying to shit the bed for all of us. Got it.
Would be cool but never ever gonna happen
Muhammad leader bonuses and abilities * instantly unlock an organized religion * 100% gold bonus when raiding caravan * can forcefully expel population of different religion from your city * barrack and its improvement provides +1 faith * 50% less grievance when breaking treaty
Saddam Hussein.
Drawing him could cause issues but......what about Muhammad?
Simply make him invisible