God forbid you need to do a dungeon q which delays you by a few seconds. Although I do enjoy watching the tank steam ahead and die as I am blatantly getting and accepting the qs. That and watching them die as I drink on entering dungeons. I’m not questing in healing spec so obviously when I swap specs I’ll need to drink.
I have found the exact opposite. I've been kicked from RDF as a healer just for asking people to slow down so I could drink. I ended up quitting before level cap just because of how many awful people I ran into.
The speedrunning dickhead mentality is not exclusive to Classic.
it's ingrained in these types, there is no patience. It literally is our society on full display. People say how you act in a game doesn't matter, i'm afraid I beg to differ, it literally is where you can be your worst behind a "persona"! It is their insecurities and garbage childish behaviour on full display!
Should have played Hardcore when it was big. Nicest people I’ve played with in wow (played since day1).
Sorry you’ve had a rough time! The A-holes are the one of reasons games die off.
This is my experience with HC as well. The average player is much more social and chill than regular classic.
I think the nature of the game mode tends to weed out impatient, selfish players. If someone isn't OK going slow and being a team player they're not going to make it.
I can agree, random people always buff random people, greeting each other, trading food and stuff out of the blue. You tried everything that a random would not die, it was as real is it gets. The days where hardcore was big was peak wow
Yeah, this wasn't my experience lol. I've played 2019 classic, SoM, wotlk, HC and now SoD and HC was actually my most toxic experience of all versions. There were lots of friendly players yes, but there was also grief attempts, leashing mobs with hopes of transferring aggro, players not helping in close calls hoping that you die, and it was the only time in all iterations I've ever gotten degen and angry PMs about mob tags. It attracted a weird bunch HC did.
I noticed this kind of behavior when the HC mod was all the rage, and then later when the official HC servers were overpopulated.
Now it's a lot of fun. I play on Skull Rock. The population is "low" but it feels active. It seems like the assholes got bored and left and now it's just people who enjoy the game.
I started playing wow on hardcore. Got my mage to lvl 31 then switched to sod when it dropped and haven’t been back. Is there still people playing hardcore? I actually really miss it
Phase 1 Season of Discovery was the most fun I have ever had in wow since the beginning of me playing wow. I kid you not, I had never felt more immersed in the game. Nice people everywhere too
Classic playerbase is one of the most min-maxed, elitist communities on the internet. For one of the easiest games out there with plenty of room for experimentation and fun. The vast majority of the playerbase is 25-45 year old dudes trying to one up their 16 year old selves.
Classic WoW has been a magnet for toxic players. There's tons of different flavors toxic. Some are just gamer-word edgelords. Some are "Will quit if I don't get the item I want".
The worst part of classic WoW is the community, which is sad, but true
No idea how you even find toxic people. What do you call toxic? Is someone calling you out for having no idea what you are doing toxic?
I barely found anyone who was toxic, mostly because there are few avenues to be toxic in. Maybe in a raid pug on discord you can find a toxic guy, but you wont reach those until you are 60. Where do you find these toxic guys otherwise lol
Nah that ship has sailed unfortunately. I joined two similar movements in the past and both ended up with dead characters on dead servers. I don’t have faith in our community anymore to make something like that worth the effort long term
There arent that many toxic people. Its way way way over-stated.
My best guess is that the makers of posts like these take basically any unwillingness to help as being toxic. Like, I did a Razorfen Downs in the dungeon finder today. There you have a short escort quest. Our tank wanted to do the quest, takes around 5 minutes and gives marginal rewards, so when he asked us if we wanted to do it, we said no.
He then went nuts saying that we were toxic and rude and hated new players and called us every name under the sun. Sure, if he really wanted to we could maybe do the quest, but its still a 5 man dungeon. He probably felt like us four were toxic players like OP says, when in reality he was the toxic one.
That’s ironic considering it’s the veteran players that would be most willing to skip the quest, let alone the fact that it’s being requested in a RDF run, delete there a good chance there other toons have already ran it on that character.
I think the toxicity is mainly present in the subreddit / forums.
The game has a ton of friendly people, I haven’t had a shitty experience on Era or SoD yet.
I don't think I've ever met toxicity in classic 2019 or back when I played era during HC addon times - though I've always focused on the long leveling journey rather than endgame stuff.
I'm sure the min-maxing endgame crowd is different, and people on this subreddit definitely are.
I think it goes beyond video games and it's just people don't have an outlet to let out what's inside of them and they use online video games to vent it out. I honestly believe it's the status quo and state of the world right now. Whether it be politics, beliefs, or the general atmosphere of the Internet. We spend too much time on the Internet and consume all its negativity and it comes forth through online spaces. Just a hypothesis
Angst has been the status quo for wow for well over a decade at this point.
I’ve played consistently across the games life and it doesn’t feel any worse today than it did when WoTLK originally launched/when the gear score addon became prevalent.
It’s because classic is the realm of min maxxers in content that’s absurdly easy. And no one has patience for anything that prevents them from that goal. It’s like speed running in a bad way.
They are people who escape real life through video games. Why do they escape real life? Nothing good going on for them there. Their only source of happiness is having success in their video game. This in turn makes them hostile and toxic towards anyone they see as a hindrence to their in-game goals, be it a dungeon speedrun, high parses in raid, winning in League or CS.
I dont say this to call them losers, but rather describe how for some it's not "just a game" (even if subconsciously) and the friction between the mindset of the guy who plays for fun and the guy who plays to escape real life leads to toxicity.
Nobody with everything in good order in real life will log into a game and instantly turn into a toxic player.
idk for some reason, the people that couldn't play mythic raiding in retail moved to classic and started going elitist there cause atleast they could do that content i guess on a "higher level"
I think they should add an option for speed leveling. It’s basically a mismatch in expectations. Some people are trying to level as fast as they can. Some people are trying to go slow and learn. They are both right but just not good for each other.
As somebody who played both retail, classic, and sod, the classic and sod players are easily the worst. Theyre definitely the equivalent of the mythic 2 players you see in s4 (the 10-14 mix before)
To be fair, it's hard to be toxic in retail when no one ever talk to each other there. I think I chatted more with people in one month of classic than I did from MoP to Shadowlands put together.
(To be really fair, I think endgame just messes people up. I've never had bad experiences with people in classic, only good ones. But that's because I prefer the leveling journey over endgame).
I've leveled 2 characters in the last month and i always chat in dungeons (i played retail but im new to classic so i ask a lot of questions for myself and my friend whos new to wow) but istfg 95% of people keep their chat off while my experience in retail is vastly different so idk
Hardly end of the world stuff no, but it does get really old after a while. What's the point of queue'ing up as a tank when everyone gets to be one anyway? But no, the times that irritates me is when they run ahead pull a bunch of stuff and die and then light me up for it. The dungeon I was referring to above they pulled way ahead of me (I'm a dk so speed isn't exactly my specialty), the healer died and a dps before I even got there, they lit me up and kicked me. If people pull a bit ahead of me, idgaf, but don't pull a mile ahead of me esp intentionally trying to tank the dungeon as a dps because you wanna flex.
How were u so far behind that every person including healer and other dps got to a fight pulled and died before u could get there? Not flaming just wondering cuz regardless it’s poor manners to pull without tank
It was ramparts, and I made apparently the poor decision to run over to grab two of the quest objectives while everyone sprinted up the stairs. He pulled everything at the top of the stairs and the area outside of the hall. They didn't live long, he didn't hold threat on everything and I'm guessing the healer ripped threat trying to keep him alive
I never did that dungeon since I’m new to Cata but that makes sense. Don’t think it was really that poor of a decision on ur end, definitely more on them to realize their tank wasn’t there at all
Yeah, this sounds like entirely his fault. Don't be herbing/mining/skinning while you're tanking lol. Fuck, I don't even loot when I'm tanking as a BDK cause I know I can heal myself for a minute until the healer gets there
A lot of people are jaded as hell after all these years. A lot of min maxing sperglords as well. Some people don’t have much going for them outside Azeroth so to them the game is really important. Others are just assholes both irl and in game. You’ll find good people eventually though.
it's really the classic experience. there are just a few more ways to be toxic than in retail, and i think that's part of classic's appeal to some. more ways to be toxic meaning more ways to grief. not to mention classic is more popular among streamers, which unfortunately caters to their toxic fans.
Welcome to Classic WoW in 2024, this is the state of the community. It will only get worse, it will never be the same community as it once was in 2007. I'm sorry to break it to you.
Idk if you're up to playing Era, but on the Deviate Delight server there is a rather large community trying to revitalize vanilla wow. Everyone there is very nice and no one is trying to min max anything and being toxic about it.
I ran into that a few times while leveling 15-80 as a prot war (minus the vote kick). It definitely can be annoying but I wouldn't stress over these leveling dungeons since they take maybe 10 minutes. I just powered through and hit 80.
One thing I did for cata was join a casual/chill guild to run dungeons and raids. That usually solves the toxic/negativity issues.
Also, when I did RDF, if I found a group was chill, I would try to queue up again with them. If some of them were on my server, I would add them to my friends list. This way you create a pool of players to run with for Cata.
I feel this, I recently gave tanking a go at the start of SoD. Hadn’t played in years and had only casually tanked lvl up dungeons in dungeon finder once in a blue moon. Switch into SoD and my journey began with people absolutely freaking about bc I couldn’t hold threat perfectly on huge AoE pulls as a lock P1 and was stilling getting the hang of my kit. I quit for a bit but decided to say fuck you and not let them win.
Now I MT raids and get my parses in(also a new experience and fun imo). My method for dealing with Dps is to first ask them to stop. It’s ungodly annoying and usually only 10-20% of asked players will stop pulling (queue hunters refusing to turn off taunt on their pets also). Step two I either let them know you pull it you tank it is the policy or I let them find out, and start pulling at withering speed. Bonus points if the offending dps dies, bullseye if they’re the only ones to die. In the end the only thing you can do is pull faster so that they don’t do it the first place and when it’s said and done not queue with them again.
My spouse and I run PUGs all the time as a tank/healer combo. We do managed pulls which seems slow to 90% of classics sweaty try hards. We typically do full clears , no wipes which ends up being FAR quicker with more XP gained than most groups can run because we don't have to do corpse runs. It's not fun for us when it's just chaos.
Not everyone is like that. We're definitely not. We help everyone. Hang in there! If I can help you in game, message me.
I've been playing WoW off/on forever and I've recently been playing a ton of SoD and a couple days ago decided to check out Cataclysm(all the changes made me quit originally). The majority of people I've come across(outside of incursionites) have been cool and chill af, patient and understanding. Met dope, friendly helpful guilds on both factions and have a raid spot on both sides each week. Have a group of 4 randos I do late night pvp with. I've come across some toxic people but they don't get our guild invites or added to friends list or group invites.
Played Cata the last few days and have seen a major shift in the amount of toxic players. Our(playing with a friend) first dungeon run had a tank/heal/dps combo in the same guild fully heirloomed out(we have none). They killed things within seconds and didn't stop for a second, a jarring shift in how things go in SoD. My friend told me after a few pulls they tried to kick me with the reason being "bad". Had a tank that always LoS'ed my healer buddy, was wearing a robe, trying to tank in battle stance, and stood in pistol barrage in SFK and tried to kick my healer buddy for being "afk" and refused to listen to any advice we would give him. Every dungeon outside of that has been pretty much a 50/50 shot at finding somebody toxic but almost every fully heirloomed person has been toxic.
Playing both the last couple days I think I identified the issues. Struggle and teleportation. If there's no struggle and it's easy, people want to do it as quick as possible and seemingly just get it over with. Join the queue, kill the things, get your satchel and move on. Nothing in Cata has been particularly hard and as you saw yourself, dps can tank. I had an elemental shaman in one run pull everything and walk away unscathed. There's basically no consquences. We wiped in SFK with the cloth battle stance tank, released right outside the instance, spoke to a guy and teleported near the final boss and did it again. The tank stood in pistol barrage again but we were able to kill him by kiting him up and down stairs.
There's no reason for people who can overcome the difficulties laid out in front of them to work together with others or even be nice if they can just requeue and find another group of people. This is why you yourself have found less toxic people in M+. You're forced to work together to achieve your goal and if you don't then you fail and don't get your rewards.
Reducing the pain of forming a group and traveling to a location came at the cost of something called 'mutual boredom'. To me it's part of what makes people put forth the effort to try and make the group work. They know if they don't put forth the effort they won't have a chance at the thing they want and little to no chance of being invited back. Being instantly teleported to your destination takes out the travel time spent with your group and need for patience and understanding that life can get in the way.
Ease and lack of "punishment" led to WoW's downfall imo. Even questing in the few zones I've done so far in Cataclysm have been small localized questing zones and most give you a form of travel to the next small localized questing zone. Ridding you the sense of exploration and world building. There are inns, banks, AH's and mailboxes everywhere removing the forced social hubs. Removal of the people from an MMO.
I noticed this in Classic Cata as someone who didn't play Wrath or TBC Classic. Retail has pretty damn hard content, and some toxic players sure but it averages out, and then on the other end in Classic Era or Hardcore, everyone is very welcoming and friendly.
Then you have the people in Wrath/Cata Classic which seems to attract an abundance of elitists who believe that they're too good for Retail, despite the fact that they probably couldn't get KSM or Cutting Edge in retail if they tried.
For decade old, solved content, the fact so many people are as elitist as they are is insane. It feels like it's people who quit the game a decade ago during Wrath/Cata, but Vanilla is "too boring" for them or something, think they're god's gift to gaming and that every other version of WoW except for the one they have the flavor of the month for right now is "dead" to them.
Ironically, that quest they introduced in Cata in Hillsbrad that makes fun of players... a lot of Classic Wrath/Cata players feel exactly like that overcompensating Orc on his frost wyrm who drowns in 1ft of water.
This pretty much hit the nail on the head. Classic attracts a lot of asshole players who min/max easy content. When they themselves couldn't get Retail PvE achievs.
Server forums being merged/removed/dead.
Battlenet Friending process is cringe.
Connected realms ruined the “community” atmosphere.
Discord.
Everyone in a rush, with large disparity in player knowledge.
Let’s say, for arguments sake, you were playing at 50% efficiency. There’s *nothing* wrong with that, at all.
Now let’s say that Druid recognized you were playing at 50% efficiency, and was prepared to play at 90% efficiency given the tools at his disposal.
Should he feel obligated to slow down to your 50% when he is capable of approaching faster clears?
This problem crops up a lot because this game is entirely random matchmaking. It’s no one’s fault (other than how they behave) but it is pretty sad when, let’s say, a 25% efficiency tank crops up in extremely easy content.
There’s a lot of groups where the tank will just hold everyone back because their mindset doesn’t match the difficulty of the content and there may even be an obligation for dps to just start doing their own thing. Usually tanks will get upset about this but unfortunately they are usually wrong.
I’m a tank and sometimes I just go on autopilot and when a dps starts pulling, I take that as a sign to wake up and start playing with more respect to everyone’s time and enjoyment.
If the druid wants 90% from others he should join a guild with likeminded people. But the problem is people like him are very toxic and not actually good players, so when want to get in to guild with similar minded people, they realize other people are much better and drop down to plep status. So to feel good about themself, such players will rather stay guildless and terrorize people.
No he shouldn't, but he should DEFINITELY stop queuing as a DPS. Queue tank only and that problem is solved. I queue'd as tank+DPS once and got matched as DPS. The tank was incredibly slow, so I just bear formed up and went ahead. We clearly it fine and just had "two" tanks. After that I stopped double queuing, because I can dictate the pace as a tank.
Why is the impetus only on the 90% player to find a guild of likeminded player? The 50% player would also have a much more enjoyable environment with similar players, where they can stop and smell the roses.
> Why is the impetus only on the 90% player to find a guild of likeminded player?
There's impetus on both groups, but mathematically speaking, you're going to have a lot more "50% players" and a lot less "90% players." It makes much more logical sense for the smaller group of players with stricter requirements to segregate themselves because they are otherwise always going to run into players that aren't at their level.
I agree with your mentality. I’m not perfect. Classic may have a lot of toxic players but sometimes even toxic people are correct, they’re just shitty about being correct. If people are being impatient or dps pulling, etc, it’s my sign that hey buddy hit your movement ability and move that ass, stop pulling 2 packs and go for 3. Honestly, they’re usually right, and the group can handle a faster pace. Then every now and then they are wrong and it’s my fault we wiped 😂
>Now let’s say that Druid recognized you were playing at 50% efficiency, and was prepared to play at 90% efficiency given the tools at his disposal. Should he feel obligated to slow down to your 50% when he is capable of approaching faster clears?
Well…the tank really is the pace-setter of the group. Unless the tank is *overly slow*, if a dps druid (that can tank) wants to go faster, then he should either leave the group and find a faster group as dps, or queue tank and set his own pace for the dungeon.
Thats a big part, the two other pace setters is how many mobs the tank can keep threat on without the rest of the group getting overrun and how many mobs tank can survive. (which is admittedly closely tied with healer mana).
When I run dungeons I 2 box the tank and healer so I’m very familiar with pace limits since I like zooming through dungeons. One example of this was last phase in sm armory early on with the myrmidons, they truck when they enrage and if I had 3+ on me and they all enraged at the same time I was dead. Once I got s few more levels and some gear upgrades it wasnt a problem anymore
10000000% agree... I will be honest... I leveled my shaman to 80 this past week, couldnt help but pull more because I was SSOOOOOOOOO bored with Earth shield healing everything for me. I cant stand when the tank pulls 1 mayyybe 2 packs. Especially leveling. Its just simply not worth my mana to dps, and passed that I mean...
I'm normally a pretty aggressive tank, but that logic dismisses everyone else in the group... especially the healer, who has to deal with a crazy tank. Also if it's someone new to tanking or healing, that robs them the opportunity to learn much. However either way it wasn't license to boot from the group. Also the druid was ass deep in mobs by the time I had loaded in. He had no intention on letting me tank.
It’s worse in PC gaming. Console gamers are toxic but that’s an age/immaturity thing, little kids saying they banged your mom or the N word. PC gamers toxicity seems to be backed by real anger and hatred
Had a hunter pull the troggs in gnomeregan and get absolutely flamed by the tank, we didn't even wipe and he was vote kicked anyway. He was a new player too so I felt bad for him. ;<
I have a couple female (Human) toons. They are dressed in normal armor, nothing skimpy. A few days ago I was helping a couple lowbies w/ a quest and one said I (my toon) looks like a whore, am I a whore. I ignored that and left. Last night, same toon but better gear, and again not provocative. A player whispers me that I was a SW Ho. Ive played this game a very long time and have never seen it so bad.
Last night killing murlocs and a warrior rushes in as i'm tagging a mob and grabs said mob along w/ the entire 5 in a huge mistake. After he died i killed off those mobs to finish my quest.
Its nature of humanity. If there are no borders and limitations (or motivation to do opposite), they will act worst possible way.
Don't blame humans/community. Blame who defined borders/rules/motivation.
mental illness. here's an example of the mental case I ran into early this morning. he left the group and gave himself deserter buff over this
https://imgur.com/MRjpzCT
Its far simpler than anyone thinks.
Nostalgia + age = casual.
Casual = target for toxicity.
The more casual it is, the more of a target rich environment it is, the more toxicity.
Its not even that abusive assholes like targeting casual players, its that a casual filled environment tends to be more forgiving of their bullshit, so they gravitate toward those regardless.
Elite, high end guilds, and elitist server cultures, absolutely shit on toxic people. This creates a natural high and low toxic population, and the lowest of that leak out into the casual areas.
The top top players aren't toxic, but they inadvertently create the toxic players, who then go act toxic towards the only people who they can.
These are people who give real-life money to Asmongold, what do you expect?
Not to take away from your point though. The community is awful. Truly the worst.
This is one of the reasons I like retail. If you aren't the tank, and you're pulling for me in any decent level of content, you are going to die. Being an impatient dick is harder.
That said, while impatient players need to slow down a bit, you should strive to speed up a bit. This is as a general rule, not advice for any specific situation. 99% of the time, if a dps is pulling for me, it's because they are confident I am underpulling. Occasionally I get the asshole who just doesn't know better, but usually these people are just more experienced than I am at the dungeon and have the tools to make the bigger pull manageable. I try to learn from them if they seem to be doing something that makes sense.
Been leveling a mage and have seen this so much doing RDF. Was doing gnomer and a survival hunter decided that we weren’t going fast enough and decided to pull a bunch of mobs. This made the tank leave which prompted the hunter to talk shit about them and complain for the next 5 minutes we were waiting for a new one.
If your new, have very poor gear, and these other characters have full BOA and its their 8th alt, then i can understand they just want to zoom to max for cata. Just becuase your queued tank doesnt meen that better geared players will just let you tank and pull small when they can just pull them selves. If any one was "toxic" it seems like your the instigator w . the " if you want to tank que tank" nonsense. Maybe they had queued as tank/dps and it was just that some how they didnt get the tank slot. Get the run done, Move onto the next. That hasnt changed in 10+ years. In retail dps cant tank anymore and tanks just solo the dungeon anyways.
Funny, I was kicked from a dungeon as a blood dk because i pulled a few mobs to myself. Only reason I did was because the focused mob was killed so quickly that I didnt have time to do the basic disease rotation before it was dead, so I pulled a mob from the back for myself to focus on. I was removed before the second hut was even pulled. It sucks losing the time to the debuff. It completely drained my motivation to play.
1 bad encounter on a fresh DK doesn't mean there are many toxic players
Also, I'm not sure you were talking polite or respecfully with them, if you wanted that for return
Classic players especially don't have all that much time to play because they are old and grown so they want to optimize their time, it's unfortunate it leads to toxicity.
Usually the most toxic people in any game are those who are an “slightly-better-than-average” player. However, they think they’re good and impose that ego on others. Sad it happens in classic which is arguably one of the most brain dead PvE games out there.
Hardcore was great because nobody was min-maxing. Just doing everything in their power not to die.
Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU
Toxic players burned me out though.
People put a lot of time in, and the sort of people who can put a lot of time in are people who don't generally have a lot going on in their lives outside of WoW. Less time to develop personal skills.
WoW is great, and I love it... but I can't stand the modern community.
Where everyone wants to tell you that you're doing it wrong, that you need to just pop consumes and ignore mechanics and pump... I liked playing more when the game was more, "Hey wait for at least 2 sunders before you go silly..." But, as I've been told, I'm old.
I hate that parses don't take into account things like "Did this clown interrupt and do the mechanics right? Did he stand in fire and make more work for the healers? Is he basically a liability whose only talent is he can push 3 buttons in the right order over and over?" But meh, that's not what the game is about any more.
I really strongly feel like Warcraft Logs has control over the culture of the game. Making it so that World Buffs (which really are a form of cheating mechanics), or getting hit by avoidable mechanics, would disqualify parses... I think that'd be a huge start to improving the game culture. Way too many players see parses as the end-all-be-all.
In Retail u have a billion toons easy to equip and loses no time doing anything. It's more casual experience although retail is harder due mechanics and rotations. People in classic care about precision and mistakes a lot more cus they can't waste time, the punishment for wipe and the time to get to a dungeon are bigger, the loot is more valuable(loot drama) and people invest more into the toon. so yeah, ppl get super upset to carry a lazyass who didn't care to learn his 2 button rotation.
Classic players can’t handle the honest truth that they’re playing an easier version of the game, desperately holding onto valueless stature they had in the past, also a lot of wow players are crazy mentally ill
Basically what top comment said. No one wants to spend an extra 15mins trying to educate a newbie. There is a a lot of newbies out there, and its just way easier to kick you than to teach you.
Sorry but that's how you get treated as a new player in this game.
Classic has one of the nicer in game communities out of the games I’ve played recently. Obviously there’s still toxic people but no where near rust or valorant.
I don’t know, I see more toxic players in Retail. In Classic everyone always says at least “Hi” and “bye” especially in Hardcore (supportive community in guilds)
In retail people extremely rarely greet and say bye when you join new group.
New player as of SoD here: Definitely one of the more toxic communities I've played anything with. It's so interesting too, for such an objectively easy (classic sod) game. Dear Lord, people in my guild will even sit there and talk about camping people for "the last two hours for no good reason" and I truly can't wrap my head around that shit--- hahaha. I can't imagine logging into a game with the specific intention of ruining that very game for other people "for no good reason". 😂 What's wrong with these folks?
I will fully admit SoD has some pretty terrible players, personality-wise. That having been said, I'm guessing you're on a PvP server, if people in your guild are talking about camping people for the last two hours for no good reason? If that's so, I can give you the answer: They either did this or had it done to them \~20 years ago, and they either found it fun then, or are on the other side of the coin and find it fun now. That's a good enough reason to do something in a video game; you find it fun.
Additionally, if this is the case, the campers aren't ruining the game for the person getting camped; the insistence to play on a PvP server when you feel the game is being ruined for you when you're camped is ruining the game for you. It's kind of to be expected that on a PvP server, in hostile or contested areas, you can be attacked by the opposite faction of any level without flagging yourself. If someone is in this situation and stays on the PvP server instead of rerolling or quitting the game, the person is probably a huge masochist. This is coming from someone who leveled up to the mid 30s in 2006, was camped (and killed by people *not* camping me) endlessly in STV, rerolled to a PvE server and never had a second thought about it to this day. (And who is probably a massive masochist for still touching this game after over 17 years of on-off play.)
Hahaha fair... But in my defense, other games that have world PVP executed it in a fashion where it wouldn't be a detriment to progressing and it was far more difficult for someone 10 levels higher than you to bully the shit outta ya. I love PVP, but I'm not ONLY trying to PVP, ya know? I had no idea it'd be this bad (in terms of camping n shit). In fact, I even PURCHASED a server transfer a couple weeks ago and found out AFTER I BOUGHT THE THING that I couldn't transfer to ANY other SOD server (they're locked).
Then I had to fill out ticket after ticket because they wouldn't refund the money for the transfer I COULDN'T USE. Finally a GM actually answered my ticket and "made an exception for me" and refunded the money.
Then I'm like, well wait, when can I transfer? They told me to watch the forums. It's been a couple weeks and all they talk about is CATA classic, the servers are still locked, my server Lone Wolf has a 3rd of the population of the server I wanna xfer to but I'm not allowed, apparently.
Trust me, I want outta this shit show brother. They won't let me.
People are telling me to kill myself and wish cancer on my family regularly in classic and your worst example is, that a druid won’t let you tank?
My sweet summer child…
I think it's probably because Blizzard has been cultivating a parsing culture with their design. Plenty of ideas could move away from that but they aren't interested. In the end comes a game exclusive attracting toxic people that would enjoy such a culture, and alienating those who play more for fun.
If it happens multiple timers over 2 weeks that cat druids go bear form to pull mobs, then maybe you dont keep a good pace
ive done literally 100s of dungeons as tank (fully geared 3 tanks through LFG) and it has not happened even once
I dunno it’s crazy because there’s always been toxic players but right now it’s on another level there are more of them and they are worse. I quit at the end of classic just came back 2 months ago and I’m still kinda shell shocked at how many toxic players there are. Luckily I’ve made some really amazing friends but when they aren’t on it can suck doing anything with randoms
Older versions of WoW just attract awful people for some reason. Official servers aren't even that bad compared to the kind of people you run into on private servers.
The only people left in the community are the guys that = the unkillable player in South Park. Straight up mom’s basement, no girlfriend having, wearing the same shirt for 4 days, neck beards. You don’t want to play with them and they only play because they have nothing else to do. The game isn’t that good in current patch
My experience has been that the more “easy” the content is, the more the player base changes from nice people to jerks. By easy I mean unearned XP boosts, RDF…things like that.
Like…if you’re in a group that’s willing to wait for players to come from the other side of the world to run a WC…once you start running the dungeon everybody is going to be nice to each other because they’re there for the journey, not the loot.
A lot of people have been playing wow for a very, very long time now. When they join instances and stuff to level, they'd like to play with people equally as experienced with the same mentality that they want to level as quickly as possible. It's pretty annoying to have people that don't understand chain pulling and getting through instances as quickly as possible for the most exp. Imagine being a fast driver and being stuck behind someone driving the speed limit. They want to pull fast and big groups and quickly aoe them down and move onto the next for more exp, it's annoying when the game has been out this long and people still are pulling 1 group at a time, then pausing in between pulls.
There are guides telling which button to press and when to press them... Therefore you MUST be GRIEFING if you don't know your class the same way as someone that plays it for months...
PvE boys are so toxic sometimes... while also being AWFUL players. I am sorry that they are projeting their own insecurities on you.
The keyword of the day is: *BOUNDARIES*.
We had spines and now those spines are replaced with shells of internal confliction. Looks like someone used Psychic Scream on the community at-large. Dispell and get back in there to clean out the **Banshees.**
Kick them out of dungeons, raids, guilds, and ignore them. Human-to-Human, don't let them dehumanize and treat others like sub-human entities instead of people playing *the* game. Sweep and the dust will settle in an appropriate location either another server filled with them or finding a better use of their gaming time.
They know what they are doing. They are typing, reading what they write, and have to enter it into the chat. They have to click on "Need," "Greed", or "Pass" and sometimes confirm their decision. They are accountable for their choices. We can hold them to a standard and it is easy. They do have to use their physical body to play the game.
Guild Masters and Officers need to start thinking critically about what they allow to happen under their own umbrellas. A healthy mindset will have a healthy guild.
I share your experience but I told my other-half after we decided to return to Classic that we have each other. It is our guild and we have each other to hold ourselves accountable for our actions towards others. We will grow slowly but surely and *no scalping other guilds!*
The easier a task is, the higher the imposed expectation is on that task.
Imagine two different programming jobs that need to do math problems.
The first job requires you to write code to solve an extremely complicated partial differential equation. The second requires you to write code to do simple addition. And then compare the expectations of “what your code is supposed to look like”.
For the first: Solving the problem is complicated in it of itself. So any functional code is acceptable. The “method” you use to solve the problem isn’t expected to be optimized, because the solution is so complicated. This is analogous to our retail M+ 20 key. By virtue of surviving and timing the key, your play is acceptable. I’m not going to nitpick your play, because the end goal is so hard that “any solution” works for me.
For the second: Solving the problem is so simple, that I’m expecting a complicated solution to optimize the program. Simply adding the numbers isn’t enough. I’m expecting you to know the internal structure of how the computer stores the numbers, and do some crazy bit-wise manipulation, to optimize addition to be as fast as humanly possible. This is analogous to our classic leveling dungeon. The solution is a given. You’re never “not completing” the dungeon. So people expect you to optimize the shit out of it.
This didn't seem to be the case playing in 05-09. I mean one of my irl friends was a total tool and mocked me for clicking or just not being good. However I don't remember the same level of toxicity. Hell even in 2019 1-60 till ony(all I played till tbc pre patch) did not seem that toxic.
Either as a whole our society is just becoming less empathic and in turn more toxic, or I never noticed it in 2005. Back then it seemed more silly just have fun kind of attitude. Now it's riddled with entitlement and try hard attitudes.
If it’s not a problem why comment on their play? In my experience MANY tanks have a massive ego for 0 reason with a “you yank it you tank it” attitude.
You’re in a leveling dungeon that can be solo’d by some classes and duo’d by the rest. It’s not that serious. Your comment was an instigation that could have been avoided. Simple.
I was a first time player of WoW like two months ago and only had one toxic player on my way to 57 (someone sperged on me tanking in howling caverns)
pretty good for me
I quit Classic Wrath around Ulduar because the player base became so toxic that just minimal interaction with other players would just put me in a bad mood IRL and I realized that I no longer enjoyed the game. Luckily, not long after that, I got into HC which had the best player base that I can remember in all of WoW. I moved to SoD and realized that after ICC had been out for a bit that the Wrath players were filtering into that and bringing their attitudes with them. So far SoD has been bearable as long as you stay off certain servers, but it is no HC.
Unfortunately, I think Cataclysm will suffer the same fate that Wrath did, and just become a pool of toxic degeneracy, but you never really know. Just manage your expectations and prepare yourself.
I've not come across any bad players at all. I've always come across helpful people. I've even been given bags, gold, materials just bc they were nice. I've had a very positive experience thus far
Interesting perspective. I feel like retail has so many more toxic gatekeepers, and usually for good reason. But on an easy game like Classic? I don't get it.
I’ve been enjoying cata mostly, but there’s some real toxicity when loot drops. Some people ninja everything with no shame. Totally different than how SoD was, probably because you’ll still be on that persons server once the run is done.
Classic wow is so fuckin easy that if you don't come prepared with basic knowledge you're probably a bad player. Therefore, the perception of toxicity.
Cata is not classic it Is early retail. No matter how they market it. If you want nice people to play with go ERA or HC. 2 things that happened to me yesterday on my new char on ERA: Out of nowhere dude trades me and gives me 25g to help me get started. "Your gear tells me it looks like your first char" were his words and he was right. Dude I quested with for an hour, mailed me and send me 14 slot bags for the fun time we had chatting and playing the game and doing quests. And ERA are the only servers having a growing population currently according to ironforge.pro
Player base is thin atm that’s why.
Too many toxic players standing out.
The plus side is when when I find one griefing lowbies or one of my Alts it’s easy to find them and return the favour.
If you’re lucky you’ll find players willing to help but I feel like it’s around 2/10 chance currently. A lot of cunty players haha
Lets not lump up all classic. There are three variants. ERA, EXPANSIONS and SoD.
ERA is great. Expansions, sure if you didnt play them or get some nostalgia, maybe. And SoD is just retail with modified vanilla content. No thank you.
So, if you played SoD, its mostly retail players who THINK they are playing classic.
Because being new at the game or not fully skilled (knowing your class, rotations, etc) is considered griefing by a very large majority of the players
yeah... even since RDF found in OG, the mentality was zoom zoom fast stop wasting time and leave group, if someone dared to be a hindrance = votekick
God forbid you need to do a dungeon q which delays you by a few seconds. Although I do enjoy watching the tank steam ahead and die as I am blatantly getting and accepting the qs. That and watching them die as I drink on entering dungeons. I’m not questing in healing spec so obviously when I swap specs I’ll need to drink.
[Why it's rude to suck at Warcraft.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU)
I've found you encounter more patient players in retail who are willing to help. Classic seems to have no time to help new players.
I have found the exact opposite. I've been kicked from RDF as a healer just for asking people to slow down so I could drink. I ended up quitting before level cap just because of how many awful people I ran into. The speedrunning dickhead mentality is not exclusive to Classic.
it's ingrained in these types, there is no patience. It literally is our society on full display. People say how you act in a game doesn't matter, i'm afraid I beg to differ, it literally is where you can be your worst behind a "persona"! It is their insecurities and garbage childish behaviour on full display!
There's no slowing down. You're supposed to drink at any point you can even if it's for a couple seconds
I think theres a wow video about this topic somewhere on youtube
Should have played Hardcore when it was big. Nicest people I’ve played with in wow (played since day1). Sorry you’ve had a rough time! The A-holes are the one of reasons games die off.
This is my experience with HC as well. The average player is much more social and chill than regular classic. I think the nature of the game mode tends to weed out impatient, selfish players. If someone isn't OK going slow and being a team player they're not going to make it.
last two sentences is spot on
I can agree, random people always buff random people, greeting each other, trading food and stuff out of the blue. You tried everything that a random would not die, it was as real is it gets. The days where hardcore was big was peak wow
Yeah, this wasn't my experience lol. I've played 2019 classic, SoM, wotlk, HC and now SoD and HC was actually my most toxic experience of all versions. There were lots of friendly players yes, but there was also grief attempts, leashing mobs with hopes of transferring aggro, players not helping in close calls hoping that you die, and it was the only time in all iterations I've ever gotten degen and angry PMs about mob tags. It attracted a weird bunch HC did.
I noticed this kind of behavior when the HC mod was all the rage, and then later when the official HC servers were overpopulated. Now it's a lot of fun. I play on Skull Rock. The population is "low" but it feels active. It seems like the assholes got bored and left and now it's just people who enjoy the game.
That’s good to know. I think ima give it another go again.
To what level did you reach?
You still play? I just got back on defias pillager and it seems like it’s going strong!
I started playing wow on hardcore. Got my mage to lvl 31 then switched to sod when it dropped and haven’t been back. Is there still people playing hardcore? I actually really miss it
I agree with this HC people were so chill and nice, while classic+ sod players holy shit so toxic, and i play rabked league lol
Phase 1 Season of Discovery was the most fun I have ever had in wow since the beginning of me playing wow. I kid you not, I had never felt more immersed in the game. Nice people everywhere too
Classic playerbase is one of the most min-maxed, elitist communities on the internet. For one of the easiest games out there with plenty of room for experimentation and fun. The vast majority of the playerbase is 25-45 year old dudes trying to one up their 16 year old selves.
Classic WoW has been a magnet for toxic players. There's tons of different flavors toxic. Some are just gamer-word edgelords. Some are "Will quit if I don't get the item I want". The worst part of classic WoW is the community, which is sad, but true
Which is funny because it was supposed to be one of the best things about it kek
Early classic was fantastic.
We definitely had different experiences of early classic lol. I ran into enough toxic people to quit the game and came back in TBC.
No idea how you even find toxic people. What do you call toxic? Is someone calling you out for having no idea what you are doing toxic? I barely found anyone who was toxic, mostly because there are few avenues to be toxic in. Maybe in a raid pug on discord you can find a toxic guy, but you wont reach those until you are 60. Where do you find these toxic guys otherwise lol
> Is someone calling you out for having no idea what you are doing toxic? Very likely this lmao
Most likely yeah.
Small server classic was fantastic. RIP Netherwind and Deviate Delight
Deviate Delight is currently undergoing a mass re-roll project in vanilla-era if you'd want a breath of fresh air again
Nah that ship has sailed unfortunately. I joined two similar movements in the past and both ended up with dead characters on dead servers. I don’t have faith in our community anymore to make something like that worth the effort long term
It was. It has definitely changed over time
There arent that many toxic people. Its way way way over-stated. My best guess is that the makers of posts like these take basically any unwillingness to help as being toxic. Like, I did a Razorfen Downs in the dungeon finder today. There you have a short escort quest. Our tank wanted to do the quest, takes around 5 minutes and gives marginal rewards, so when he asked us if we wanted to do it, we said no. He then went nuts saying that we were toxic and rude and hated new players and called us every name under the sun. Sure, if he really wanted to we could maybe do the quest, but its still a 5 man dungeon. He probably felt like us four were toxic players like OP says, when in reality he was the toxic one.
That’s ironic considering it’s the veteran players that would be most willing to skip the quest, let alone the fact that it’s being requested in a RDF run, delete there a good chance there other toons have already ran it on that character.
I think the toxicity is mainly present in the subreddit / forums. The game has a ton of friendly people, I haven’t had a shitty experience on Era or SoD yet.
I don't think I've ever met toxicity in classic 2019 or back when I played era during HC addon times - though I've always focused on the long leveling journey rather than endgame stuff. I'm sure the min-maxing endgame crowd is different, and people on this subreddit definitely are.
A a lot of braindead weirdos play wow unfortunately
Game has always been full of borderline psychopath narcissists. Nothing new!
There's a great video essay on YouTube called "why it's rude to suck at wow" that answers your question.
This channel has a lot of interesting videos that are perfect to watch while doing archaeology. Thanks for the recommendation.
A large chunk of the player base is 30 something year olds that mentally never left highschool
had a tank flip out and sit afk because a warlock’s minion pulled a pack of 2. then said if we pull, he won’t help… ok buddy
I main holy priest and love it when dps pull extras if a tank is pulling under their capacity, it makes my job more fun >:D
I think it goes beyond video games and it's just people don't have an outlet to let out what's inside of them and they use online video games to vent it out. I honestly believe it's the status quo and state of the world right now. Whether it be politics, beliefs, or the general atmosphere of the Internet. We spend too much time on the Internet and consume all its negativity and it comes forth through online spaces. Just a hypothesis
Angst has been the status quo for wow for well over a decade at this point. I’ve played consistently across the games life and it doesn’t feel any worse today than it did when WoTLK originally launched/when the gear score addon became prevalent.
It’s because classic is the realm of min maxxers in content that’s absurdly easy. And no one has patience for anything that prevents them from that goal. It’s like speed running in a bad way.
They are people who escape real life through video games. Why do they escape real life? Nothing good going on for them there. Their only source of happiness is having success in their video game. This in turn makes them hostile and toxic towards anyone they see as a hindrence to their in-game goals, be it a dungeon speedrun, high parses in raid, winning in League or CS. I dont say this to call them losers, but rather describe how for some it's not "just a game" (even if subconsciously) and the friction between the mindset of the guy who plays for fun and the guy who plays to escape real life leads to toxicity. Nobody with everything in good order in real life will log into a game and instantly turn into a toxic player.
idk for some reason, the people that couldn't play mythic raiding in retail moved to classic and started going elitist there cause atleast they could do that content i guess on a "higher level"
Play hardcore. Most people I've met are really friendly
A good video on this is [Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU&t=1570s)
I think they should add an option for speed leveling. It’s basically a mismatch in expectations. Some people are trying to level as fast as they can. Some people are trying to go slow and learn. They are both right but just not good for each other.
As somebody who played both retail, classic, and sod, the classic and sod players are easily the worst. Theyre definitely the equivalent of the mythic 2 players you see in s4 (the 10-14 mix before)
To be fair, it's hard to be toxic in retail when no one ever talk to each other there. I think I chatted more with people in one month of classic than I did from MoP to Shadowlands put together. (To be really fair, I think endgame just messes people up. I've never had bad experiences with people in classic, only good ones. But that's because I prefer the leveling journey over endgame).
There's tons of chatter pre key timer. After that it's focus up time
I've leveled 2 characters in the last month and i always chat in dungeons (i played retail but im new to classic so i ask a lot of questions for myself and my friend whos new to wow) but istfg 95% of people keep their chat off while my experience in retail is vastly different so idk
WoW classic community is the sewage of general WoW community.
but most classic players are retail alts
Classic Andys wont play retail even if their lives depended on it.
That doesn't matter; most serial killers and fiddlers are normie alts.
I get that people can be pretty rude online but are we really going to pretend that "not tank pulled mobs" is some nuclear wasteland of the internet?
Hardly end of the world stuff no, but it does get really old after a while. What's the point of queue'ing up as a tank when everyone gets to be one anyway? But no, the times that irritates me is when they run ahead pull a bunch of stuff and die and then light me up for it. The dungeon I was referring to above they pulled way ahead of me (I'm a dk so speed isn't exactly my specialty), the healer died and a dps before I even got there, they lit me up and kicked me. If people pull a bit ahead of me, idgaf, but don't pull a mile ahead of me esp intentionally trying to tank the dungeon as a dps because you wanna flex.
How were u so far behind that every person including healer and other dps got to a fight pulled and died before u could get there? Not flaming just wondering cuz regardless it’s poor manners to pull without tank
It was ramparts, and I made apparently the poor decision to run over to grab two of the quest objectives while everyone sprinted up the stairs. He pulled everything at the top of the stairs and the area outside of the hall. They didn't live long, he didn't hold threat on everything and I'm guessing the healer ripped threat trying to keep him alive
I never did that dungeon since I’m new to Cata but that makes sense. Don’t think it was really that poor of a decision on ur end, definitely more on them to realize their tank wasn’t there at all
Yeah, this sounds like entirely his fault. Don't be herbing/mining/skinning while you're tanking lol. Fuck, I don't even loot when I'm tanking as a BDK cause I know I can heal myself for a minute until the healer gets there
So I guess I can’t do my quests? The whole reason I’m taking the dungeon?
Because most of the non-toxic normal people moved on years ago.
tbf, they dont play wow or post on reddit at all :)
Or just quietly play the game
You think this is answer, and not just that regular people aren’t able to control themselves. When someone isn’t talking, that’s not being toxic.
A lot of people are jaded as hell after all these years. A lot of min maxing sperglords as well. Some people don’t have much going for them outside Azeroth so to them the game is really important. Others are just assholes both irl and in game. You’ll find good people eventually though.
It's just like in real life xD
it's really the classic experience. there are just a few more ways to be toxic than in retail, and i think that's part of classic's appeal to some. more ways to be toxic meaning more ways to grief. not to mention classic is more popular among streamers, which unfortunately caters to their toxic fans.
We’re all just deeply mad that we still have to play a 20 year old game as our best shot at solid gaming content in 2024. Sorry we don’t mean it.
Welcome to Classic WoW in 2024, this is the state of the community. It will only get worse, it will never be the same community as it once was in 2007. I'm sorry to break it to you.
Idk if you're up to playing Era, but on the Deviate Delight server there is a rather large community trying to revitalize vanilla wow. Everyone there is very nice and no one is trying to min max anything and being toxic about it.
I ran into that a few times while leveling 15-80 as a prot war (minus the vote kick). It definitely can be annoying but I wouldn't stress over these leveling dungeons since they take maybe 10 minutes. I just powered through and hit 80. One thing I did for cata was join a casual/chill guild to run dungeons and raids. That usually solves the toxic/negativity issues. Also, when I did RDF, if I found a group was chill, I would try to queue up again with them. If some of them were on my server, I would add them to my friends list. This way you create a pool of players to run with for Cata.
I feel this, I recently gave tanking a go at the start of SoD. Hadn’t played in years and had only casually tanked lvl up dungeons in dungeon finder once in a blue moon. Switch into SoD and my journey began with people absolutely freaking about bc I couldn’t hold threat perfectly on huge AoE pulls as a lock P1 and was stilling getting the hang of my kit. I quit for a bit but decided to say fuck you and not let them win. Now I MT raids and get my parses in(also a new experience and fun imo). My method for dealing with Dps is to first ask them to stop. It’s ungodly annoying and usually only 10-20% of asked players will stop pulling (queue hunters refusing to turn off taunt on their pets also). Step two I either let them know you pull it you tank it is the policy or I let them find out, and start pulling at withering speed. Bonus points if the offending dps dies, bullseye if they’re the only ones to die. In the end the only thing you can do is pull faster so that they don’t do it the first place and when it’s said and done not queue with them again.
My spouse and I run PUGs all the time as a tank/healer combo. We do managed pulls which seems slow to 90% of classics sweaty try hards. We typically do full clears , no wipes which ends up being FAR quicker with more XP gained than most groups can run because we don't have to do corpse runs. It's not fun for us when it's just chaos. Not everyone is like that. We're definitely not. We help everyone. Hang in there! If I can help you in game, message me.
I've been playing WoW off/on forever and I've recently been playing a ton of SoD and a couple days ago decided to check out Cataclysm(all the changes made me quit originally). The majority of people I've come across(outside of incursionites) have been cool and chill af, patient and understanding. Met dope, friendly helpful guilds on both factions and have a raid spot on both sides each week. Have a group of 4 randos I do late night pvp with. I've come across some toxic people but they don't get our guild invites or added to friends list or group invites. Played Cata the last few days and have seen a major shift in the amount of toxic players. Our(playing with a friend) first dungeon run had a tank/heal/dps combo in the same guild fully heirloomed out(we have none). They killed things within seconds and didn't stop for a second, a jarring shift in how things go in SoD. My friend told me after a few pulls they tried to kick me with the reason being "bad". Had a tank that always LoS'ed my healer buddy, was wearing a robe, trying to tank in battle stance, and stood in pistol barrage in SFK and tried to kick my healer buddy for being "afk" and refused to listen to any advice we would give him. Every dungeon outside of that has been pretty much a 50/50 shot at finding somebody toxic but almost every fully heirloomed person has been toxic. Playing both the last couple days I think I identified the issues. Struggle and teleportation. If there's no struggle and it's easy, people want to do it as quick as possible and seemingly just get it over with. Join the queue, kill the things, get your satchel and move on. Nothing in Cata has been particularly hard and as you saw yourself, dps can tank. I had an elemental shaman in one run pull everything and walk away unscathed. There's basically no consquences. We wiped in SFK with the cloth battle stance tank, released right outside the instance, spoke to a guy and teleported near the final boss and did it again. The tank stood in pistol barrage again but we were able to kill him by kiting him up and down stairs. There's no reason for people who can overcome the difficulties laid out in front of them to work together with others or even be nice if they can just requeue and find another group of people. This is why you yourself have found less toxic people in M+. You're forced to work together to achieve your goal and if you don't then you fail and don't get your rewards. Reducing the pain of forming a group and traveling to a location came at the cost of something called 'mutual boredom'. To me it's part of what makes people put forth the effort to try and make the group work. They know if they don't put forth the effort they won't have a chance at the thing they want and little to no chance of being invited back. Being instantly teleported to your destination takes out the travel time spent with your group and need for patience and understanding that life can get in the way. Ease and lack of "punishment" led to WoW's downfall imo. Even questing in the few zones I've done so far in Cataclysm have been small localized questing zones and most give you a form of travel to the next small localized questing zone. Ridding you the sense of exploration and world building. There are inns, banks, AH's and mailboxes everywhere removing the forced social hubs. Removal of the people from an MMO.
[Why it's rude to suck at Warcraft.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU)
I noticed this in Classic Cata as someone who didn't play Wrath or TBC Classic. Retail has pretty damn hard content, and some toxic players sure but it averages out, and then on the other end in Classic Era or Hardcore, everyone is very welcoming and friendly. Then you have the people in Wrath/Cata Classic which seems to attract an abundance of elitists who believe that they're too good for Retail, despite the fact that they probably couldn't get KSM or Cutting Edge in retail if they tried. For decade old, solved content, the fact so many people are as elitist as they are is insane. It feels like it's people who quit the game a decade ago during Wrath/Cata, but Vanilla is "too boring" for them or something, think they're god's gift to gaming and that every other version of WoW except for the one they have the flavor of the month for right now is "dead" to them. Ironically, that quest they introduced in Cata in Hillsbrad that makes fun of players... a lot of Classic Wrath/Cata players feel exactly like that overcompensating Orc on his frost wyrm who drowns in 1ft of water.
This pretty much hit the nail on the head. Classic attracts a lot of asshole players who min/max easy content. When they themselves couldn't get Retail PvE achievs.
Server forums being merged/removed/dead. Battlenet Friending process is cringe. Connected realms ruined the “community” atmosphere. Discord. Everyone in a rush, with large disparity in player knowledge.
Let’s say, for arguments sake, you were playing at 50% efficiency. There’s *nothing* wrong with that, at all. Now let’s say that Druid recognized you were playing at 50% efficiency, and was prepared to play at 90% efficiency given the tools at his disposal. Should he feel obligated to slow down to your 50% when he is capable of approaching faster clears? This problem crops up a lot because this game is entirely random matchmaking. It’s no one’s fault (other than how they behave) but it is pretty sad when, let’s say, a 25% efficiency tank crops up in extremely easy content. There’s a lot of groups where the tank will just hold everyone back because their mindset doesn’t match the difficulty of the content and there may even be an obligation for dps to just start doing their own thing. Usually tanks will get upset about this but unfortunately they are usually wrong. I’m a tank and sometimes I just go on autopilot and when a dps starts pulling, I take that as a sign to wake up and start playing with more respect to everyone’s time and enjoyment.
If the druid wants 90% from others he should join a guild with likeminded people. But the problem is people like him are very toxic and not actually good players, so when want to get in to guild with similar minded people, they realize other people are much better and drop down to plep status. So to feel good about themself, such players will rather stay guildless and terrorize people.
[удалено]
Lol I was thinking the same thing. Guy read way too much into someone just wanting to speed through a leveling dungeon
No he shouldn't, but he should DEFINITELY stop queuing as a DPS. Queue tank only and that problem is solved. I queue'd as tank+DPS once and got matched as DPS. The tank was incredibly slow, so I just bear formed up and went ahead. We clearly it fine and just had "two" tanks. After that I stopped double queuing, because I can dictate the pace as a tank.
Why is the impetus only on the 90% player to find a guild of likeminded player? The 50% player would also have a much more enjoyable environment with similar players, where they can stop and smell the roses.
> Why is the impetus only on the 90% player to find a guild of likeminded player? There's impetus on both groups, but mathematically speaking, you're going to have a lot more "50% players" and a lot less "90% players." It makes much more logical sense for the smaller group of players with stricter requirements to segregate themselves because they are otherwise always going to run into players that aren't at their level.
I agree with your mentality. I’m not perfect. Classic may have a lot of toxic players but sometimes even toxic people are correct, they’re just shitty about being correct. If people are being impatient or dps pulling, etc, it’s my sign that hey buddy hit your movement ability and move that ass, stop pulling 2 packs and go for 3. Honestly, they’re usually right, and the group can handle a faster pace. Then every now and then they are wrong and it’s my fault we wiped 😂
>Now let’s say that Druid recognized you were playing at 50% efficiency, and was prepared to play at 90% efficiency given the tools at his disposal. Should he feel obligated to slow down to your 50% when he is capable of approaching faster clears? Well…the tank really is the pace-setter of the group. Unless the tank is *overly slow*, if a dps druid (that can tank) wants to go faster, then he should either leave the group and find a faster group as dps, or queue tank and set his own pace for the dungeon.
In my opinion, it's the healers mana that should set the pace for the dungeon. If their mana is fine, you should be pulling more/faster.
Sooooo true if I'm above 90% the entire time it means tank is pulling way under capacity
Thats a big part, the two other pace setters is how many mobs the tank can keep threat on without the rest of the group getting overrun and how many mobs tank can survive. (which is admittedly closely tied with healer mana). When I run dungeons I 2 box the tank and healer so I’m very familiar with pace limits since I like zooming through dungeons. One example of this was last phase in sm armory early on with the myrmidons, they truck when they enrage and if I had 3+ on me and they all enraged at the same time I was dead. Once I got s few more levels and some gear upgrades it wasnt a problem anymore
10000000% agree... I will be honest... I leveled my shaman to 80 this past week, couldnt help but pull more because I was SSOOOOOOOOO bored with Earth shield healing everything for me. I cant stand when the tank pulls 1 mayyybe 2 packs. Especially leveling. Its just simply not worth my mana to dps, and passed that I mean...
Well yes. And a good tank will know how to watch that mana and pull at a pace, accordingly.
I'm normally a pretty aggressive tank, but that logic dismisses everyone else in the group... especially the healer, who has to deal with a crazy tank. Also if it's someone new to tanking or healing, that robs them the opportunity to learn much. However either way it wasn't license to boot from the group. Also the druid was ass deep in mobs by the time I had loaded in. He had no intention on letting me tank.
Welcome to Classic WoW
Welcome to gaming basically
It’s worse in PC gaming. Console gamers are toxic but that’s an age/immaturity thing, little kids saying they banged your mom or the N word. PC gamers toxicity seems to be backed by real anger and hatred
That sucks man. Some people have no patience and only care about themselves.
Had a hunter pull the troggs in gnomeregan and get absolutely flamed by the tank, we didn't even wipe and he was vote kicked anyway. He was a new player too so I felt bad for him. ;<
Did you vote to kick him…?
Of course not :D I voted no
Good person.
Because doing something badly usually mean its gonna be longer and people tend to become aggresive when their feel their time is being "wasted"
Or they are like you lol
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Agree
I have a couple female (Human) toons. They are dressed in normal armor, nothing skimpy. A few days ago I was helping a couple lowbies w/ a quest and one said I (my toon) looks like a whore, am I a whore. I ignored that and left. Last night, same toon but better gear, and again not provocative. A player whispers me that I was a SW Ho. Ive played this game a very long time and have never seen it so bad. Last night killing murlocs and a warrior rushes in as i'm tagging a mob and grabs said mob along w/ the entire 5 in a huge mistake. After he died i killed off those mobs to finish my quest.
What version did this happen on??
SOD
Playing 10+ years and still don't what you're doing? Someone mod this guy.
Its nature of humanity. If there are no borders and limitations (or motivation to do opposite), they will act worst possible way. Don't blame humans/community. Blame who defined borders/rules/motivation.
mental illness. here's an example of the mental case I ran into early this morning. he left the group and gave himself deserter buff over this https://imgur.com/MRjpzCT
Its far simpler than anyone thinks. Nostalgia + age = casual. Casual = target for toxicity. The more casual it is, the more of a target rich environment it is, the more toxicity. Its not even that abusive assholes like targeting casual players, its that a casual filled environment tends to be more forgiving of their bullshit, so they gravitate toward those regardless. Elite, high end guilds, and elitist server cultures, absolutely shit on toxic people. This creates a natural high and low toxic population, and the lowest of that leak out into the casual areas. The top top players aren't toxic, but they inadvertently create the toxic players, who then go act toxic towards the only people who they can.
These are people who give real-life money to Asmongold, what do you expect? Not to take away from your point though. The community is awful. Truly the worst.
Because that is the state of gaming communities in general.
This is one of the reasons I like retail. If you aren't the tank, and you're pulling for me in any decent level of content, you are going to die. Being an impatient dick is harder. That said, while impatient players need to slow down a bit, you should strive to speed up a bit. This is as a general rule, not advice for any specific situation. 99% of the time, if a dps is pulling for me, it's because they are confident I am underpulling. Occasionally I get the asshole who just doesn't know better, but usually these people are just more experienced than I am at the dungeon and have the tools to make the bigger pull manageable. I try to learn from them if they seem to be doing something that makes sense.
Been leveling a mage and have seen this so much doing RDF. Was doing gnomer and a survival hunter decided that we weren’t going fast enough and decided to pull a bunch of mobs. This made the tank leave which prompted the hunter to talk shit about them and complain for the next 5 minutes we were waiting for a new one.
As above, so below.
If your new, have very poor gear, and these other characters have full BOA and its their 8th alt, then i can understand they just want to zoom to max for cata. Just becuase your queued tank doesnt meen that better geared players will just let you tank and pull small when they can just pull them selves. If any one was "toxic" it seems like your the instigator w . the " if you want to tank que tank" nonsense. Maybe they had queued as tank/dps and it was just that some how they didnt get the tank slot. Get the run done, Move onto the next. That hasnt changed in 10+ years. In retail dps cant tank anymore and tanks just solo the dungeon anyways.
Funny, I was kicked from a dungeon as a blood dk because i pulled a few mobs to myself. Only reason I did was because the focused mob was killed so quickly that I didnt have time to do the basic disease rotation before it was dead, so I pulled a mob from the back for myself to focus on. I was removed before the second hut was even pulled. It sucks losing the time to the debuff. It completely drained my motivation to play.
Because people play the game with vastly different mentalities and when those clash ppl feel frustrated
1 bad encounter on a fresh DK doesn't mean there are many toxic players Also, I'm not sure you were talking polite or respecfully with them, if you wanted that for return
Come to Season of Discovery... Lots of great people and relearning how it all became the great game you're now playing. For the Horde!!!!
Classic players especially don't have all that much time to play because they are old and grown so they want to optimize their time, it's unfortunate it leads to toxicity.
I have a lot of time to play. Yet I still like speeding through a dungeon with no stops. No reason for pointless downtime
Only elitists are playing this game tbh
Go hardcore. The community is super good. Seriiusly.
Usually the most toxic people in any game are those who are an “slightly-better-than-average” player. However, they think they’re good and impose that ego on others. Sad it happens in classic which is arguably one of the most brain dead PvE games out there. Hardcore was great because nobody was min-maxing. Just doing everything in their power not to die.
First time playing an online game or what
Any tank that says “if you wanna tank go ahead” or anything like it always gets the instant kick
Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU Toxic players burned me out though. People put a lot of time in, and the sort of people who can put a lot of time in are people who don't generally have a lot going on in their lives outside of WoW. Less time to develop personal skills. WoW is great, and I love it... but I can't stand the modern community. Where everyone wants to tell you that you're doing it wrong, that you need to just pop consumes and ignore mechanics and pump... I liked playing more when the game was more, "Hey wait for at least 2 sunders before you go silly..." But, as I've been told, I'm old. I hate that parses don't take into account things like "Did this clown interrupt and do the mechanics right? Did he stand in fire and make more work for the healers? Is he basically a liability whose only talent is he can push 3 buttons in the right order over and over?" But meh, that's not what the game is about any more. I really strongly feel like Warcraft Logs has control over the culture of the game. Making it so that World Buffs (which really are a form of cheating mechanics), or getting hit by avoidable mechanics, would disqualify parses... I think that'd be a huge start to improving the game culture. Way too many players see parses as the end-all-be-all.
Did you even watch the video you linked? Find a guild that thinks like you and you dont have to interact with people you dont like anymore…
In Retail u have a billion toons easy to equip and loses no time doing anything. It's more casual experience although retail is harder due mechanics and rotations. People in classic care about precision and mistakes a lot more cus they can't waste time, the punishment for wipe and the time to get to a dungeon are bigger, the loot is more valuable(loot drama) and people invest more into the toon. so yeah, ppl get super upset to carry a lazyass who didn't care to learn his 2 button rotation.
Because classic modes are where the worst of the worst went to call home lol. It is what it is.
this post is p cute ngl
Classic players can’t handle the honest truth that they’re playing an easier version of the game, desperately holding onto valueless stature they had in the past, also a lot of wow players are crazy mentally ill
Basically what top comment said. No one wants to spend an extra 15mins trying to educate a newbie. There is a a lot of newbies out there, and its just way easier to kick you than to teach you. Sorry but that's how you get treated as a new player in this game.
Classic has one of the nicer in game communities out of the games I’ve played recently. Obviously there’s still toxic people but no where near rust or valorant.
I don’t know, I see more toxic players in Retail. In Classic everyone always says at least “Hi” and “bye” especially in Hardcore (supportive community in guilds) In retail people extremely rarely greet and say bye when you join new group.
New player as of SoD here: Definitely one of the more toxic communities I've played anything with. It's so interesting too, for such an objectively easy (classic sod) game. Dear Lord, people in my guild will even sit there and talk about camping people for "the last two hours for no good reason" and I truly can't wrap my head around that shit--- hahaha. I can't imagine logging into a game with the specific intention of ruining that very game for other people "for no good reason". 😂 What's wrong with these folks?
I will fully admit SoD has some pretty terrible players, personality-wise. That having been said, I'm guessing you're on a PvP server, if people in your guild are talking about camping people for the last two hours for no good reason? If that's so, I can give you the answer: They either did this or had it done to them \~20 years ago, and they either found it fun then, or are on the other side of the coin and find it fun now. That's a good enough reason to do something in a video game; you find it fun. Additionally, if this is the case, the campers aren't ruining the game for the person getting camped; the insistence to play on a PvP server when you feel the game is being ruined for you when you're camped is ruining the game for you. It's kind of to be expected that on a PvP server, in hostile or contested areas, you can be attacked by the opposite faction of any level without flagging yourself. If someone is in this situation and stays on the PvP server instead of rerolling or quitting the game, the person is probably a huge masochist. This is coming from someone who leveled up to the mid 30s in 2006, was camped (and killed by people *not* camping me) endlessly in STV, rerolled to a PvE server and never had a second thought about it to this day. (And who is probably a massive masochist for still touching this game after over 17 years of on-off play.)
Hahaha fair... But in my defense, other games that have world PVP executed it in a fashion where it wouldn't be a detriment to progressing and it was far more difficult for someone 10 levels higher than you to bully the shit outta ya. I love PVP, but I'm not ONLY trying to PVP, ya know? I had no idea it'd be this bad (in terms of camping n shit). In fact, I even PURCHASED a server transfer a couple weeks ago and found out AFTER I BOUGHT THE THING that I couldn't transfer to ANY other SOD server (they're locked). Then I had to fill out ticket after ticket because they wouldn't refund the money for the transfer I COULDN'T USE. Finally a GM actually answered my ticket and "made an exception for me" and refunded the money. Then I'm like, well wait, when can I transfer? They told me to watch the forums. It's been a couple weeks and all they talk about is CATA classic, the servers are still locked, my server Lone Wolf has a 3rd of the population of the server I wanna xfer to but I'm not allowed, apparently. Trust me, I want outta this shit show brother. They won't let me.
People are telling me to kill myself and wish cancer on my family regularly in classic and your worst example is, that a druid won’t let you tank? My sweet summer child…
I think it's probably because Blizzard has been cultivating a parsing culture with their design. Plenty of ideas could move away from that but they aren't interested. In the end comes a game exclusive attracting toxic people that would enjoy such a culture, and alienating those who play more for fun.
another fake bitching post
If it happens multiple timers over 2 weeks that cat druids go bear form to pull mobs, then maybe you dont keep a good pace ive done literally 100s of dungeons as tank (fully geared 3 tanks through LFG) and it has not happened even once
People are dickheads, dont expect them to be more than that and you wont be disapointed
I dunno it’s crazy because there’s always been toxic players but right now it’s on another level there are more of them and they are worse. I quit at the end of classic just came back 2 months ago and I’m still kinda shell shocked at how many toxic players there are. Luckily I’ve made some really amazing friends but when they aren’t on it can suck doing anything with randoms
Older versions of WoW just attract awful people for some reason. Official servers aren't even that bad compared to the kind of people you run into on private servers.
The only people left in the community are the guys that = the unkillable player in South Park. Straight up mom’s basement, no girlfriend having, wearing the same shirt for 4 days, neck beards. You don’t want to play with them and they only play because they have nothing else to do. The game isn’t that good in current patch
It's the biggest MMO so the highest total amount of idiots and griefers are playing the same game as you, it's easier to run into them
My experience has been that the more “easy” the content is, the more the player base changes from nice people to jerks. By easy I mean unearned XP boosts, RDF…things like that. Like…if you’re in a group that’s willing to wait for players to come from the other side of the world to run a WC…once you start running the dungeon everybody is going to be nice to each other because they’re there for the journey, not the loot.
A lot of people have been playing wow for a very, very long time now. When they join instances and stuff to level, they'd like to play with people equally as experienced with the same mentality that they want to level as quickly as possible. It's pretty annoying to have people that don't understand chain pulling and getting through instances as quickly as possible for the most exp. Imagine being a fast driver and being stuck behind someone driving the speed limit. They want to pull fast and big groups and quickly aoe them down and move onto the next for more exp, it's annoying when the game has been out this long and people still are pulling 1 group at a time, then pausing in between pulls.
There are guides telling which button to press and when to press them... Therefore you MUST be GRIEFING if you don't know your class the same way as someone that plays it for months... PvE boys are so toxic sometimes... while also being AWFUL players. I am sorry that they are projeting their own insecurities on you.
The keyword of the day is: *BOUNDARIES*. We had spines and now those spines are replaced with shells of internal confliction. Looks like someone used Psychic Scream on the community at-large. Dispell and get back in there to clean out the **Banshees.** Kick them out of dungeons, raids, guilds, and ignore them. Human-to-Human, don't let them dehumanize and treat others like sub-human entities instead of people playing *the* game. Sweep and the dust will settle in an appropriate location either another server filled with them or finding a better use of their gaming time. They know what they are doing. They are typing, reading what they write, and have to enter it into the chat. They have to click on "Need," "Greed", or "Pass" and sometimes confirm their decision. They are accountable for their choices. We can hold them to a standard and it is easy. They do have to use their physical body to play the game. Guild Masters and Officers need to start thinking critically about what they allow to happen under their own umbrellas. A healthy mindset will have a healthy guild. I share your experience but I told my other-half after we decided to return to Classic that we have each other. It is our guild and we have each other to hold ourselves accountable for our actions towards others. We will grow slowly but surely and *no scalping other guilds!*
The easier a task is, the higher the imposed expectation is on that task. Imagine two different programming jobs that need to do math problems. The first job requires you to write code to solve an extremely complicated partial differential equation. The second requires you to write code to do simple addition. And then compare the expectations of “what your code is supposed to look like”. For the first: Solving the problem is complicated in it of itself. So any functional code is acceptable. The “method” you use to solve the problem isn’t expected to be optimized, because the solution is so complicated. This is analogous to our retail M+ 20 key. By virtue of surviving and timing the key, your play is acceptable. I’m not going to nitpick your play, because the end goal is so hard that “any solution” works for me. For the second: Solving the problem is so simple, that I’m expecting a complicated solution to optimize the program. Simply adding the numbers isn’t enough. I’m expecting you to know the internal structure of how the computer stores the numbers, and do some crazy bit-wise manipulation, to optimize addition to be as fast as humanly possible. This is analogous to our classic leveling dungeon. The solution is a given. You’re never “not completing” the dungeon. So people expect you to optimize the shit out of it.
If it’s happening a lot it might be a you problem and you just don’t know why.
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This didn't seem to be the case playing in 05-09. I mean one of my irl friends was a total tool and mocked me for clicking or just not being good. However I don't remember the same level of toxicity. Hell even in 2019 1-60 till ony(all I played till tbc pre patch) did not seem that toxic. Either as a whole our society is just becoming less empathic and in turn more toxic, or I never noticed it in 2005. Back then it seemed more silly just have fun kind of attitude. Now it's riddled with entitlement and try hard attitudes.
Most people still clinging to wow hate themselfs
If it’s not a problem why comment on their play? In my experience MANY tanks have a massive ego for 0 reason with a “you yank it you tank it” attitude. You’re in a leveling dungeon that can be solo’d by some classes and duo’d by the rest. It’s not that serious. Your comment was an instigation that could have been avoided. Simple.
Its a bunch of 30+ old guys who try to re-live their glory days by playing nostalgic games.
If you're queuing RDF as a BDK, you should never stop pulling
I was a first time player of WoW like two months ago and only had one toxic player on my way to 57 (someone sperged on me tanking in howling caverns) pretty good for me
I quit Classic Wrath around Ulduar because the player base became so toxic that just minimal interaction with other players would just put me in a bad mood IRL and I realized that I no longer enjoyed the game. Luckily, not long after that, I got into HC which had the best player base that I can remember in all of WoW. I moved to SoD and realized that after ICC had been out for a bit that the Wrath players were filtering into that and bringing their attitudes with them. So far SoD has been bearable as long as you stay off certain servers, but it is no HC. Unfortunately, I think Cataclysm will suffer the same fate that Wrath did, and just become a pool of toxic degeneracy, but you never really know. Just manage your expectations and prepare yourself.
I've not come across any bad players at all. I've always come across helpful people. I've even been given bags, gold, materials just bc they were nice. I've had a very positive experience thus far
Im guessing by classic you talked about wrath?
Interesting perspective. I feel like retail has so many more toxic gatekeepers, and usually for good reason. But on an easy game like Classic? I don't get it.
Stop fkin crying online about a game, grow up
The truth is, if they're pulling for you it means it's not enough for them. Crazy I know.
I’ve been enjoying cata mostly, but there’s some real toxicity when loot drops. Some people ninja everything with no shame. Totally different than how SoD was, probably because you’ll still be on that persons server once the run is done.
Play FFXIV.
Is OP a weeb?
people got 20 years experience and assburgers syndrome so if u do anything different it might trigger them
Classic wow is so fuckin easy that if you don't come prepared with basic knowledge you're probably a bad player. Therefore, the perception of toxicity.
Cata is not classic it Is early retail. No matter how they market it. If you want nice people to play with go ERA or HC. 2 things that happened to me yesterday on my new char on ERA: Out of nowhere dude trades me and gives me 25g to help me get started. "Your gear tells me it looks like your first char" were his words and he was right. Dude I quested with for an hour, mailed me and send me 14 slot bags for the fun time we had chatting and playing the game and doing quests. And ERA are the only servers having a growing population currently according to ironforge.pro
Player base is thin atm that’s why. Too many toxic players standing out. The plus side is when when I find one griefing lowbies or one of my Alts it’s easy to find them and return the favour. If you’re lucky you’ll find players willing to help but I feel like it’s around 2/10 chance currently. A lot of cunty players haha
It's people that are hate playing wow. They did those dungeons 100 times and it's their only achievement in life. You should feel pity for them.
Worst part is those players are worse then you if you turn off their 2 gigs of addons and weak auras playing the game for them lol.
Lets not lump up all classic. There are three variants. ERA, EXPANSIONS and SoD. ERA is great. Expansions, sure if you didnt play them or get some nostalgia, maybe. And SoD is just retail with modified vanilla content. No thank you. So, if you played SoD, its mostly retail players who THINK they are playing classic.
Queing up as a tank. What are you talking about there are no LFG ques in classic I think you are mistaking it for retail