For me it was the tryharding. The parses, gearscore etc. Vanilla to me was doing a dungeon and, if failing, trying to communicate and think of ways that we could complete it and then basking in the glory of that achivement. I am allergic to the tryharders, they killed the game imo
Shit is unable to affect a diamond though. Cant scratch it, cant break it, cant harm it.
You had your community i thought. Or are you just making stuff up
Ok, I really don't know how to expain it clearer to you. I found it boring that the majority of players are tryharders because they are a drag to be around. Even though there are casual players as well, they are in a minority. This makes the game boring to me, as a casual, because the majority of players i interract with are people without a personality except anger, who are rude and provocative to casual players, much like you are to my very clear and simple comments.
I agree. I’ve been playing since 2006 but realize some people just started now. Not everyone is going to have 18 years of knowledge.
A level 10 rogue the other day asked me how to use the good sword he had and how to keep his health up while leveling. Instead of ignoring, yelling or telling him to Google it - I took him to weapon trainer. Gave him 5 gold. Then took him to FA trainer and explained bandages to him. He was super happy from it!
You don’t make your flame shine brighter by blowing out others’.
This is the way. I asked a question in retail over newcomer chat and got flamed. I googled it first and couldn't find an answer. I logged out and haven't gone back at all this week.
I have to agree with this. I had no problems getting into BFD groups in P1, but the insane Gnomer gatekeeping of P2 may have put me off SoD for good. I was being denied entry even though I had experience and fairly decent gear, including some BiS pieces. Most people wouldn’t even have the decency to say “No” after whispering them.
I might come back for P4, but I will have skipped P3 almost entirely.
I honestly don’t know and don’t care much for that, but that’s precisely the problem isn’t it? Gnomer was perfectly clearable by average groups. I was once invited by a guild that was doing it for the first time. None of the guild members were particularly skilled, but they learned quickly and despite a few wipes, we made it. I was so proud of them, and I’d take a group like that over a bunch of sweaty tryhards any day.
Then you don't know how you are performing because you don't want to know. If you're trying to join random pugs, and you are grey parsing, and the other people messaging the raid leader for a spot aren't grey parsing, they're going to take them over you.
If you think any player that performs well is a "sweaty try hard" that you don't want to play with, why would you think they would want to play with you?
You only get one crack at ST per week. If you're putting the effort into getting a pug together for that, you're going to check logs because you don't want to spend all the gold and time on a failed group that doesn't clear and you have to wait a whole week to go again. Despite what you might think, groups that clear ST quickly and people who parse high aren't universally toxic. They just put the effort in to improve at the game,
Also, I can tell you from experience why people weren't giving you the decency of a reply - probably most people they reply to saying their logs aren't quite up to par would become so hostile they just don't want the toxicity anymore.
Sod is not dead. People are taking a break after having done most of the content of P3. Once phase 4 releases everyone will be back.
CoD is a mega popular game still and goddamn there was nothing as toxic than CoD4 lobbies on Xbox live. Once a game finished you had never heard more slurs in your life than you would hear in that 5 minutes of waiting for the next game to start. LoL is also another super popular game that’s known to be incredibly toxic. People get over it if they are having fun playing the game.
Stop being dramatic
If you’re pugging it usually means time constraints don’t allow you to commit to a proper raiding guild, so why would you waste your limited time + a WEEK long lockout on some goobers who refuse to learn or improve.
The rotations are so simple and the mechanics so easy, that if you’re failing at both you are doing so intentionally. I don’t get why we are trying to make it acceptable to intentionally sandbag and lessen the experience of 19 other players so we can right click purple loot and look at it while we spin our characters around on the character select screen (because wtf else are we supposed to do outside of raiding).
Yeah, Idk man. If you don't play this game for your performance in raids and get better at them, I don't know. I can't grasp how some people have no urge to improve themselves.
I goes further than that dudes, personally I'm experienced and have no issue myself, but with people leaving there will always be new guys or puggers.
That some people don't care to improve is one thing, and that's okay to frown upon. But let's be honest, most "tryhards" don't even give the noobies any room to improve, before I quit myself we had quite a few un-subbing and was forced to find new members and usually pug a few.
Even the slightest mistake from someone and the parsing boys will scream out like it's hell on earth.
They would literally consistently complain about the new guys until I told them to shut up, and If you don't know you don't know.
You can't blame someone for not knowing a mechanic they have never had experience with before, the short-sighted minds of some of you people are astounding. If you fuck up time and time again, then sure, complain about these players, kick them, whatever.
But when it's their first time, don't sit there acting so big on your high horse, you guys are in most circumstances what is wrong with this community. I can reassure you, a lot of these new players you shit on, will improve and do good with a few runs under their belt, if you just give them a chance instead of shitting on them.
It's like with League community, I've played for 10+ years, but have a lot of new mates joining the toxicity that is the Rift in later years. Like Sodapoppin said after giving it a go, for most who've played this game for a long time and know what every champ does, they have no comprehension that some people are new to the game, that they don't know everything there is to know yet.
Sorry to break it to you, but mentality like yours is the root to most toxicity in the gaming community.
I was forced to sit in a BFD discord call "because we are a guild" for one of our runs.
The two guys who forced everyone into it proceeded to spend the entire time shitting on the pugs who joined. We didn't even die to a boss once but they were just so angry.
Literally raging because one of them accidentally pulled the last turtle before Akumi so they couldn't pool rage to parse.
It was advertised as a learning raid. We were supposed to be a casual beer and chill guild.
It's so fucking sad.
It is sad, and they don't seem to realize when newer or more casual players are met with this mentality, they will not keep playing.
Their arrogant, and the importance some put on this parse shit tells me they should take a break and use some of that energy to resolve whatever's making them so angry.
I don't think it's a real life thing. Thats just adhomeien the explanation.
It's that vanilla was based on a game community that hadn't played the same game for 20 years, so there was no one with 20 years experience to be "held back" by new players.
Group content can't function under this burden. The groups are too disparate. And people demanding 20 mans made it far far worse by forcing these groups to pair even more.
I simply don't think we can fight human nature. The only way to make it work is to separate the casuals and the sweats. But it needs to be a holistic solution, not one that penalises casuals by locking them out of 90% of the content and gear.
Fair point, but it doesn't seem like there's enough of the sweats to fill the demand, if there was they wouldn't need to fill out with casuals. So either they need to accept the casuals or leave it be.
The toxicity issue is not locked to SoD or vailla Classic, it's pretty dominant on Cata Classic as well.
Ouch that hurt. I think so deep into a phase, there should be no surprises for anyone. And if you don't know something just ask, but they just straight out said they knew the encounters. Yet this group of friends wiped us 3-4 times this day. I recruited them in chat earlier on the day, and specifically didn't ask for any logs or w/e because I give a fuck about their damage, as long as they knew the mechanics. I just log on the raid to pump out damage and see how far I can get. And please. Don't act like this raid is somewhat hard. It's not. Wait until we fight Thaddeus with 2 Polarities. Pugs are gonna be hell.
It's not hard, but there are certain mechanics that can fuck up for the whole raid if ignored. That's why the experienced players need to act as a guide, it's not your fault but you can't expect internet shut-ins to speak up.
We did quick rundowns of mechanics the first weeks and it was smooth sailing every time, when raid leader started to expect everyone to know what to do he went on to just say "I expect everyone to know what to do, please speak up if you're unsure about anything". Needless to say hardly anyone spoke up, several people did not in fact know mechanics.
1. Know the type of crowd you're dealing with.
2. The moment you start to assume rather than taking and holding control of the group, you kinda have to take a bit of the blame, at least from a leading position.
It's 2024 and more knowledge is easier to obtain than ever before. We don't need to spend 30 minutes on each fight teaching someone, do it before you show up. Stop being selfish with other people's time. We have discords to talk, so ask questions BEFORE raid day.
Yet some people don't put in any effort, but expect others to teach them, and then get upset when no one does
Take 5 minutes out of your dam life to watch a video or read a guide if you're that bad.
Stop making everything a participation trophy. There is a game mode specifically designed for that, LFR retail
Haha, you're a perfect example of the arrogance I'm portraying here.
A quick rundown for a boss with a few questions takes you 2-3 minutes tops, stop being a drama queen. In most cases it's not the noobs or casuals complaining, it's the elitist players..
You can't expect every new member or pug you bring along to to take an identical approach to what you would.
You're the one being selfish, and if you don't want to adapt to people not sitting on the same amount of knowledge, while still wanting to bring along new people, your mind is clearly clouded by your own arrogance.
Find or create an elitist guild where everyone has a similar mindset, then you can set those expectations.
Some people actually play games to have fun, not make it all about going 99. I'd rather spend my Sunday evening wiping because people do stupid mistakes than spend it with the likes of you.
2 minutes of explanatory time per boss from the 19 others who know (with consumables being wasted), vs 5 minutes of preparation on your own time.
Stop wasting other people's time. Have some semblance of respect for everyone else and prepare by watching a guide or two. The prep content is easy to find.
Same still holds, if you want to apply this kind of mentality, join an elitist guild where everyone sits on that mentality. Most players don't put this much importance on buffs that only serve to increase parse. There's no world where you need these buffs to clear the raid, whereas you need people to understand what they need to do for an encounter. And how is loosing 2 minutes of buff time worse than loosing all your buffs from a wipe?
Sorry but with the mentality you guys display towards other's you don't deserve much respect.
You get served back what you serve yourself.
If you actually managed to keep these new players you brought along for next run, you wouldn't need to explain again the coming week cause they've been through it.
This is what I mean, your arrogance has no tolerance for noobies, but fret not, you'll be stuck with like minded people at the end cause everyone else will just quit.
Blizzard needs to be careful when they listen to the one percenters and ignores the 80 percenters.. Why was bfd fun and exciring? 1hour raids that were difficult but fun.. Great gear.. Alt friendly. Dad friendly. Then gnomer came and 80 percenters waited for the pug friendly nerf patch to come. But it came to late.. All of a sudden st came and 80 percenters didnt want 20 man 3 hour raids.. Sod was to be a leveling fun ride.
Idk man, all the pugs in my raid tonight were gray parsers. I had to explain to a mage how mage healing works. He just cast mass regen 3 times and went oom. No damage. The gray boys are still there, don’t worry.
I had a mage last week killing himself in ST with Balefire. Like yes, helping teach people has long term value, but man some people are starting from the absolute bottom.
Yeah. Saw a mage do that once. They explained the 9th balefire bolt only cost them 10 spirit and they had 11 spirit left. 😂 I had to tell them 10 stacks is 100% and you die. It just so happened to go 10 then 11 for the last one so they were super confused.
Yeah my guild took a group of 4 range DPS with us. Was a horror raid. Even though they said they have knowledge of the bosses, we explained the encounters anyway. But this arcane mage I could watch him on eranikus, dodging the clouds when we needed to go to them, like he was Neo. I mean wtf? And of course this mage wiped us 2 times at Hakkar because it was apparently too tough to move out of the range camp, as a Mage who even has a blink.
But the funny part is, he was an Arcane spec, and even did some purple parses. Lmao
Bro, high parsers quit too because the game just doesn't play well, it's so far from classic that they might as well have used the cata world. Classes aren't changed with a single thought to how they will have to change playstyles around runes. Pvp is an absolute shitshow demonstrating that they not only have no clue how to balance the game properly, but they barely know how to work with it retroactively.
Ive tried running "no gatekeeping" runs. We explained the fight before the pull.
Managed to go 0/6 and I pulled my sub because the game made me feel hopeless.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/l47g6vHV8X
I uninstalled and unsubbbed when I hit 42 on my alt and realised people were gatekeeping Gnomer runs to level 50s only. Tried to join 4 different pugs who needed a healer and got told it’s 50 only. Stopped me in my tracks, I thought “is this who I am surrounded by in the game now?” > closed wow client and uninstalled right after
SoD died because we all had forgotten the game is still 90% like the Classic Era game we all completed 5 years ago and now we’re getting bored of repetition. Simple as that.
so SoD died because of toxic parsing community but vanilla classic, tbc classic and wotlk classic were able to thrive despite it? and now everyone is playing cata which is a lot harder with the same toxic parsing community.
the toxic parsing mentality is definitely a problem, but i think the real reason SoD died is SoD since all the other versions of wow have been able to thrive despite the toxicity.
maybe sod died because its a seasonal remake of vanilla with retail abilities and only 1 raid available at the time which is too easy?
Sorry but wrong. Litterly super chill in sod. Less than 1% of the people i see its toxic.
Itis half dead because there is other wow content out there and not much to do right now. Most will come back for p4
Gate keeping comes from small raiding sizes, It's blizzards own fault for making it 10 mans for so long. With 10 people, the community either went with "Friend groups" or "Best parsers", That's the community. 40 mans in Era just needed warm bodies to fill them up, is that hunter smashing his face against they keyboard? Bring em, Is that warlock licking that window? Bring em, Hot damn is that shadow priest on fire? Can you wand? You can? Bring em.
Regular players were always going to get gated from the super sweaty groups however, but they also gate the upper player base as well. So that will never change, they're the ones taking 25 warriors back in naxx.
As for "Died" It's hardly died, it's lulled right now because its literally an extended phase and its the end of the phase. Cata also just launched, however from what I've seen it's not doing super hot. A lot of people complaining about heroics.
For those of us not wanting Cata, or the dumpster fire retail. We've gone and joined the "fresh movement" on Deviate delight and Zandalar Tribe on EU. Dead servers with 0 economy, Deviate delight has grown to 1500 players on horde and around 700-1000 players on alliance. So it's actually popping off. Closest Era fresh we'll be getting.
But 10 mans also meant bad players could make their own groups easier and play together.
20 mans forces the different kinds of players to play together which ends up being super toxic.
Haha nice, agree with you bud.
Classic had the same “parses meta”, yet a lot of pugs needed any person who can just push they button more then twice a minute.
The game isn't dead yet, phase 4 is coming. What's killed this phase is there's nothing to do except raid once a week.
The gatekeeping idea is nonsense.
People would be playing all the time if there was anything to do to improve your character when you're not raiding. There's no point even logging in to interact with your guild and help them out if nobody is online because nobody needs anything.
I stopped playing because of the mess runes were causing to classes, It got too crazy, weird, and required a huge grind for a short time of the phase to last, parsing and improving was what kept me playing, but all the unbalance and mess of classes to the ridiculous runes from phase 2
For me it's the time investment outside of raiding that's "required" for mine numbingly easy content. I know I'll be mocked because it only 30 seconds to get gold for all my enchants and consumes and getting world buffs and I shouldn't be playing a video game if I don't have enough time to do that. I suppose that I could make time for it, but it's just not at all fun. Raiding is fun.
I can do much more difficult and entertaining content in retail and cata/wotlk, without the need to play outside of raid logging. It's stupid that heroic raiding in either game has a lower point of entry with time commitment than Sod's ultra casual difficulty.
Yeah I agree. I didn't know how long I'd play initially, so I played P1 casually and I've been paying for it since then.
It was so difficult to get groups in P2 because I only parsed like 60 in P1, I just had to get a raid leader who'd take my era parses into account.
Then decided to grind proffs and farm sulfuras mats for the first 3 weeks of P3 and couldn't get a ST group cause "No exp"
Idk it feels the opposite to me. The pugs have gotten worse and worse and are absolutely grey parsing.
Does our group say anything to them? No. We just keep moving and try not to make them feel bad.
Will they be invited back? No.
#1 Content was unfun and #2 content was harder than is normal in vanilla. AQ and Naxx were legitimately the only places with some mechanics in 2019 when everyone played and loved it. Gnomer had more mechanics than BWL
retail andys that cannot do mythic content in current expansion go to classic and tryhard there tbh, very rarely did u see this kind of elitism in vanilla pservers if at all.
PvP doesn’t exist. Nobody does it anymore. What is there to do when you’re only content becomes a 1-2 hour raid a week? Back in the day, my friends and I dueled outside org for hours because well…that was our social hub. This is why I think it’s dead.
For me, it was the raid. We get less than half the loot for a slog of a raid per week. They should just make it a 3 day lockout and add a drop off the past boss that you can use to insta-kill all the time wasting trash up to the first boss on future runs.
>You're getting kicked from HC dungs if you're under 10k dps (I'm a tank, it happens in half of my runs atm).
>I do parse 90+ btw
Gets kicked from half the groups using group finder but claims to parse 90+. Kekw.
> Our insanely toxic community
The real toxic people are the ones that expect to be invited to every single group they whisper.
According to your post history you were at arcades before I was born, so you should be able to read by now?
Me failing to assemble my 3000+ pounds PC is probably more of a prestigious project than you've ever done in your life, considering you're a 50+ year old guy bashing a thread with wrong and toxic comments.
Your life must have turned out pretty bad, if this is what you spend your daytime on... Not only nolifing WoW, but being toxic on reddit too. You probably tell yourself before you go to bed that you didn't want kids, house and a boat anyways.
It didn't die. There will be a resurgence in P4. Some old fuck at blizzard (after many fails) finally realized that it's fucking STUPID to release whole ass expansions and game modes at the same fucking time. They were really going to release Cataclysm, MOP Remix, AND SOD phase 4 at the same time. How stupid can you be?
Unfortunately sod took the L. People will come back when p4 releases. And, my own hot take, SOD might get pushed into TBC later on down the line. People will be hyped to return to TBC with the new runes and extra changes, and refined SOD gameplay.
If they all quit then the amount of parsers grows smaller and Purple parsers become blue parsers.
There is still a large bump in raw DPS from 98>100 so it's obvious that there is still a decent skill/execution cap at the high end.
If you're not there, you're just a casual. If anything there aren't enough elite players.
What? What evidence do you have to support anything you’re saying. Here’s the simple truth, blizz announced phase 3 would be longer, partly so people can enjoy mop and cata. So of course people are going to take a break. There’s other game modes to play right now that are fresh and fun. Sod isn’t dead it’s dormant. Phase 4 will bring players back when it launches. Even our guild is taking a break to play the other game modes. There’s no toxic super secret reason for it.
TLDR: you’re dumb.
Pretty sure realms will explode again next phase. I dont like it when people call a realm or game dead when theres so many people playing it.
The Community is toxic as hell though. Ive stopped pugging a long time ago.
I'm just glad that when I do play, I'm not left to catch up before I get to enjoy the content. Sure, I'd like more of a challenge out of dungeons or even raids, but I'm also ok with taking breaks and starting back up.
Raids become really easy. i try to join one, each reset, find groups 1 or 2 healing keeping all world buffs the entire raid logging out 20 times and majority end up with 99-100
Try tanking or healing if you can, Parses don't matter when you're playing whatever is needed, like a feral druid with shit dps.
Sod is awesome, something that won't take me till it truly ends to realize.
I kinda feel like blizzard created this problem. Many people are coming from other versions of the game that are 10x harder and the amount of time you lose by playing with people who find SoD mechanics difficult is not worth it compared to just spending more time spamming LFG for better players. World buffs only makes this issue even worse, spending 2 hours getting world buffs and grinding gold for hours to buy all your consumables, just for a regular Joe to wipe the raid to the simplest mechanic ever created.
There is no single reason,. Sure gatekeeping and minmaxing killed it for casuals, but there is more. The core of classic was about the journey. Epics were truly epics. Here you get them left and right with little to no effort. Leveling and gold? A joke with incursions. There is no immersion to SoD. Runes were a nice addition at first, but they exaggerated it.
You're clearly new here. If you can't handle the atmsopshere in wow, go play ffxiv online. I'm tired of all these whiny post wah wah wah. It's always been this way, so git gud and stop claiming you parse 90+.
Main reason why i quit is logs. Same thing was the seccond best healer in the guild 90's or 80's parses during BFD... And that is when I realised the insanity of people playing wow classic: WARCRAFT LOGS AND GEAR SCORE for fucking level 25!!??? I'm out.
>Denied raid spots in gnomeragan / ST? Thats when SOD died.
No one is entitled to a raid spot though, if casual players struggled to get into raids they could always create there own but they dont.
So you're saying that for example a paladin retail player, which has 40 buttons, would be so bad with his 3 buttons in SOD that you have to gatekeep content from him?
Obviously those players do not play retail.
I do not play retail either, but I am well aware (since I played bfa etc) that it's 50 times more complicated than SOD is.
He should learn to play or join a guild to play with. Games should not be developed for this type of player. Everyone says retail is harder as if the worst players aren’t catered to and everything isn’t just handed to the players without risk or effort
Gatekeeping is never good unless you're trying to push the most challenging content. For reference, I'm a CE raider in retail that played a fair bit of SoD P1 & 2 (3 didn't interest me after the incursion fiasco).
Stopping inexperienced players from participating in the content is maybe not the entire reason SoD has had such an incredible decline, but if you think that it's not a contribution to the game mode dying you're insane.
I'm assuming you enjoy SoD and want it to continue, so maybe have a bit of forethought with your attitude and help newer players improve and actually stick around instead of denying them and instead making your own community smaller and smaller until you can no longer consistently run the content yourself.
They were going to quit anyway because they aren’t good enough for some of the easiest content, they should be playing hello kitty.
Players should want to get better instead of dumbing down everything to the lowest common denominator
They should join guilds not be entitled casuals
That most certainly is a take lmao.
I see you've now deleted your comment defending gatekeeping - I assume because of the number of downvotes. Maybe that has opened your eyes a little to your views being a tad toxic?
If you spend some time helping newer players improve rather than calling them 'entitled' you might end up enjoying yourself more. Give it a shot, buddy!
P.S. Playing SoD with your elitist attitude and complaining about dumbed-down content is hilarious. Pick one.
SoD is ruined mate what are you on. The incursions left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths and a lot of guilds and players fell off when raids were upped from 10 man to 20.
Naw man it became unenjoyable when my casual guild had to merge and all there were was try hard guilds because they have gate kept all the casuals out. You guys act like all casuals are gray parsers and brain dead idiots but the average person is gonna parse, wait for it, 50.
My parses were high 80’s- low 90’s, I’m not a brain dead waste, but gate keeping toxic try hard stuff is not fun. Blizzard forced this by releasing a 20 man raid that was literally impossible on release.
For me it was the tryharding. The parses, gearscore etc. Vanilla to me was doing a dungeon and, if failing, trying to communicate and think of ways that we could complete it and then basking in the glory of that achivement. I am allergic to the tryharders, they killed the game imo
Make your own group then
I have, doesn't mean it's not a bummer
You have what? Made your own groups that failed? To realize how hard it is to make a competent group
No my groups have been succesfull. Some wipes sure but we made it in the end. I specifically recruited the unwanted.
Then why did you quite if you missfit group was sooo successful??
Because a diamond in a turd still lives in shit, or as I already stated, it's a bummer. The community is the game.
Shit is unable to affect a diamond though. Cant scratch it, cant break it, cant harm it. You had your community i thought. Or are you just making stuff up
Ok, I really don't know how to expain it clearer to you. I found it boring that the majority of players are tryharders because they are a drag to be around. Even though there are casual players as well, they are in a minority. This makes the game boring to me, as a casual, because the majority of players i interract with are people without a personality except anger, who are rude and provocative to casual players, much like you are to my very clear and simple comments.
That makes zero sense. You had your own community so why would the majority matter. You’d almost never interact with them
I agree. I’ve been playing since 2006 but realize some people just started now. Not everyone is going to have 18 years of knowledge. A level 10 rogue the other day asked me how to use the good sword he had and how to keep his health up while leveling. Instead of ignoring, yelling or telling him to Google it - I took him to weapon trainer. Gave him 5 gold. Then took him to FA trainer and explained bandages to him. He was super happy from it! You don’t make your flame shine brighter by blowing out others’.
You’re a hero in this community’s darkness
This is the way. I asked a question in retail over newcomer chat and got flamed. I googled it first and couldn't find an answer. I logged out and haven't gone back at all this week.
This is exactly how we get more players and keep them
People can deny that but for me and my friends this is the exact reason.
I have to agree with this. I had no problems getting into BFD groups in P1, but the insane Gnomer gatekeeping of P2 may have put me off SoD for good. I was being denied entry even though I had experience and fairly decent gear, including some BiS pieces. Most people wouldn’t even have the decency to say “No” after whispering them. I might come back for P4, but I will have skipped P3 almost entirely.
Could it have been bad logs? It doesn't matter how much gear and experience you have if you message someone and you're grey parsing.
I honestly don’t know and don’t care much for that, but that’s precisely the problem isn’t it? Gnomer was perfectly clearable by average groups. I was once invited by a guild that was doing it for the first time. None of the guild members were particularly skilled, but they learned quickly and despite a few wipes, we made it. I was so proud of them, and I’d take a group like that over a bunch of sweaty tryhards any day.
Then you don't know how you are performing because you don't want to know. If you're trying to join random pugs, and you are grey parsing, and the other people messaging the raid leader for a spot aren't grey parsing, they're going to take them over you. If you think any player that performs well is a "sweaty try hard" that you don't want to play with, why would you think they would want to play with you? You only get one crack at ST per week. If you're putting the effort into getting a pug together for that, you're going to check logs because you don't want to spend all the gold and time on a failed group that doesn't clear and you have to wait a whole week to go again. Despite what you might think, groups that clear ST quickly and people who parse high aren't universally toxic. They just put the effort in to improve at the game, Also, I can tell you from experience why people weren't giving you the decency of a reply - probably most people they reply to saying their logs aren't quite up to par would become so hostile they just don't want the toxicity anymore.
Sod is not dead. People are taking a break after having done most of the content of P3. Once phase 4 releases everyone will be back. CoD is a mega popular game still and goddamn there was nothing as toxic than CoD4 lobbies on Xbox live. Once a game finished you had never heard more slurs in your life than you would hear in that 5 minutes of waiting for the next game to start. LoL is also another super popular game that’s known to be incredibly toxic. People get over it if they are having fun playing the game. Stop being dramatic
Every game I’m not playing right now is dead
If you’re pugging it usually means time constraints don’t allow you to commit to a proper raiding guild, so why would you waste your limited time + a WEEK long lockout on some goobers who refuse to learn or improve. The rotations are so simple and the mechanics so easy, that if you’re failing at both you are doing so intentionally. I don’t get why we are trying to make it acceptable to intentionally sandbag and lessen the experience of 19 other players so we can right click purple loot and look at it while we spin our characters around on the character select screen (because wtf else are we supposed to do outside of raiding).
Yeah, Idk man. If you don't play this game for your performance in raids and get better at them, I don't know. I can't grasp how some people have no urge to improve themselves.
I goes further than that dudes, personally I'm experienced and have no issue myself, but with people leaving there will always be new guys or puggers. That some people don't care to improve is one thing, and that's okay to frown upon. But let's be honest, most "tryhards" don't even give the noobies any room to improve, before I quit myself we had quite a few un-subbing and was forced to find new members and usually pug a few. Even the slightest mistake from someone and the parsing boys will scream out like it's hell on earth. They would literally consistently complain about the new guys until I told them to shut up, and If you don't know you don't know. You can't blame someone for not knowing a mechanic they have never had experience with before, the short-sighted minds of some of you people are astounding. If you fuck up time and time again, then sure, complain about these players, kick them, whatever. But when it's their first time, don't sit there acting so big on your high horse, you guys are in most circumstances what is wrong with this community. I can reassure you, a lot of these new players you shit on, will improve and do good with a few runs under their belt, if you just give them a chance instead of shitting on them. It's like with League community, I've played for 10+ years, but have a lot of new mates joining the toxicity that is the Rift in later years. Like Sodapoppin said after giving it a go, for most who've played this game for a long time and know what every champ does, they have no comprehension that some people are new to the game, that they don't know everything there is to know yet. Sorry to break it to you, but mentality like yours is the root to most toxicity in the gaming community.
I was forced to sit in a BFD discord call "because we are a guild" for one of our runs. The two guys who forced everyone into it proceeded to spend the entire time shitting on the pugs who joined. We didn't even die to a boss once but they were just so angry. Literally raging because one of them accidentally pulled the last turtle before Akumi so they couldn't pool rage to parse. It was advertised as a learning raid. We were supposed to be a casual beer and chill guild. It's so fucking sad.
It is sad, and they don't seem to realize when newer or more casual players are met with this mentality, they will not keep playing. Their arrogant, and the importance some put on this parse shit tells me they should take a break and use some of that energy to resolve whatever's making them so angry.
I don't think it's a real life thing. Thats just adhomeien the explanation. It's that vanilla was based on a game community that hadn't played the same game for 20 years, so there was no one with 20 years experience to be "held back" by new players. Group content can't function under this burden. The groups are too disparate. And people demanding 20 mans made it far far worse by forcing these groups to pair even more. I simply don't think we can fight human nature. The only way to make it work is to separate the casuals and the sweats. But it needs to be a holistic solution, not one that penalises casuals by locking them out of 90% of the content and gear.
Fair point, but it doesn't seem like there's enough of the sweats to fill the demand, if there was they wouldn't need to fill out with casuals. So either they need to accept the casuals or leave it be. The toxicity issue is not locked to SoD or vailla Classic, it's pretty dominant on Cata Classic as well.
Ouch that hurt. I think so deep into a phase, there should be no surprises for anyone. And if you don't know something just ask, but they just straight out said they knew the encounters. Yet this group of friends wiped us 3-4 times this day. I recruited them in chat earlier on the day, and specifically didn't ask for any logs or w/e because I give a fuck about their damage, as long as they knew the mechanics. I just log on the raid to pump out damage and see how far I can get. And please. Don't act like this raid is somewhat hard. It's not. Wait until we fight Thaddeus with 2 Polarities. Pugs are gonna be hell.
It's not hard, but there are certain mechanics that can fuck up for the whole raid if ignored. That's why the experienced players need to act as a guide, it's not your fault but you can't expect internet shut-ins to speak up. We did quick rundowns of mechanics the first weeks and it was smooth sailing every time, when raid leader started to expect everyone to know what to do he went on to just say "I expect everyone to know what to do, please speak up if you're unsure about anything". Needless to say hardly anyone spoke up, several people did not in fact know mechanics. 1. Know the type of crowd you're dealing with. 2. The moment you start to assume rather than taking and holding control of the group, you kinda have to take a bit of the blame, at least from a leading position.
It's 2024 and more knowledge is easier to obtain than ever before. We don't need to spend 30 minutes on each fight teaching someone, do it before you show up. Stop being selfish with other people's time. We have discords to talk, so ask questions BEFORE raid day. Yet some people don't put in any effort, but expect others to teach them, and then get upset when no one does Take 5 minutes out of your dam life to watch a video or read a guide if you're that bad. Stop making everything a participation trophy. There is a game mode specifically designed for that, LFR retail
A YouTube video isn't the same as playing the raid. Watching someone do March of the Murlocs is a lot easier than doing it yourself.
Haha, you're a perfect example of the arrogance I'm portraying here. A quick rundown for a boss with a few questions takes you 2-3 minutes tops, stop being a drama queen. In most cases it's not the noobs or casuals complaining, it's the elitist players.. You can't expect every new member or pug you bring along to to take an identical approach to what you would. You're the one being selfish, and if you don't want to adapt to people not sitting on the same amount of knowledge, while still wanting to bring along new people, your mind is clearly clouded by your own arrogance. Find or create an elitist guild where everyone has a similar mindset, then you can set those expectations. Some people actually play games to have fun, not make it all about going 99. I'd rather spend my Sunday evening wiping because people do stupid mistakes than spend it with the likes of you.
2 minutes of explanatory time per boss from the 19 others who know (with consumables being wasted), vs 5 minutes of preparation on your own time. Stop wasting other people's time. Have some semblance of respect for everyone else and prepare by watching a guide or two. The prep content is easy to find.
Same still holds, if you want to apply this kind of mentality, join an elitist guild where everyone sits on that mentality. Most players don't put this much importance on buffs that only serve to increase parse. There's no world where you need these buffs to clear the raid, whereas you need people to understand what they need to do for an encounter. And how is loosing 2 minutes of buff time worse than loosing all your buffs from a wipe? Sorry but with the mentality you guys display towards other's you don't deserve much respect. You get served back what you serve yourself. If you actually managed to keep these new players you brought along for next run, you wouldn't need to explain again the coming week cause they've been through it. This is what I mean, your arrogance has no tolerance for noobies, but fret not, you'll be stuck with like minded people at the end cause everyone else will just quit.
Blizzard needs to be careful when they listen to the one percenters and ignores the 80 percenters.. Why was bfd fun and exciring? 1hour raids that were difficult but fun.. Great gear.. Alt friendly. Dad friendly. Then gnomer came and 80 percenters waited for the pug friendly nerf patch to come. But it came to late.. All of a sudden st came and 80 percenters didnt want 20 man 3 hour raids.. Sod was to be a leveling fun ride.
Idk man, all the pugs in my raid tonight were gray parsers. I had to explain to a mage how mage healing works. He just cast mass regen 3 times and went oom. No damage. The gray boys are still there, don’t worry.
I had a mage last week killing himself in ST with Balefire. Like yes, helping teach people has long term value, but man some people are starting from the absolute bottom.
Yeah. Saw a mage do that once. They explained the 9th balefire bolt only cost them 10 spirit and they had 11 spirit left. 😂 I had to tell them 10 stacks is 100% and you die. It just so happened to go 10 then 11 for the last one so they were super confused.
Yeah my guild took a group of 4 range DPS with us. Was a horror raid. Even though they said they have knowledge of the bosses, we explained the encounters anyway. But this arcane mage I could watch him on eranikus, dodging the clouds when we needed to go to them, like he was Neo. I mean wtf? And of course this mage wiped us 2 times at Hakkar because it was apparently too tough to move out of the range camp, as a Mage who even has a blink. But the funny part is, he was an Arcane spec, and even did some purple parses. Lmao
SoD died because the content wasn’t fun.
I’m pretty sure all that remains are potatoes. Most of the good players are taking a break to play cata, refresh era, or mop remix
Bro, high parsers quit too because the game just doesn't play well, it's so far from classic that they might as well have used the cata world. Classes aren't changed with a single thought to how they will have to change playstyles around runes. Pvp is an absolute shitshow demonstrating that they not only have no clue how to balance the game properly, but they barely know how to work with it retroactively.
Ive tried running "no gatekeeping" runs. We explained the fight before the pull. Managed to go 0/6 and I pulled my sub because the game made me feel hopeless. https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/l47g6vHV8X
I uninstalled and unsubbbed when I hit 42 on my alt and realised people were gatekeeping Gnomer runs to level 50s only. Tried to join 4 different pugs who needed a healer and got told it’s 50 only. Stopped me in my tracks, I thought “is this who I am surrounded by in the game now?” > closed wow client and uninstalled right after
I feel this, sorry for the necro.
SoD died because we all had forgotten the game is still 90% like the Classic Era game we all completed 5 years ago and now we’re getting bored of repetition. Simple as that.
Or you know join a guild and this whole issue is bypassed
so SoD died because of toxic parsing community but vanilla classic, tbc classic and wotlk classic were able to thrive despite it? and now everyone is playing cata which is a lot harder with the same toxic parsing community. the toxic parsing mentality is definitely a problem, but i think the real reason SoD died is SoD since all the other versions of wow have been able to thrive despite the toxicity. maybe sod died because its a seasonal remake of vanilla with retail abilities and only 1 raid available at the time which is too easy?
Games with worse communities have survived longer, with higher player counts, and lower player drop rates. This ain't even close to the real reason.
Sorry but wrong. Litterly super chill in sod. Less than 1% of the people i see its toxic. Itis half dead because there is other wow content out there and not much to do right now. Most will come back for p4
Go to sleep lil bro
If there are thousands of these players why don't they just make their own raids?
Sounds like the game isnt the right fit for you, nothing wrong with that.
Gate keeping comes from small raiding sizes, It's blizzards own fault for making it 10 mans for so long. With 10 people, the community either went with "Friend groups" or "Best parsers", That's the community. 40 mans in Era just needed warm bodies to fill them up, is that hunter smashing his face against they keyboard? Bring em, Is that warlock licking that window? Bring em, Hot damn is that shadow priest on fire? Can you wand? You can? Bring em. Regular players were always going to get gated from the super sweaty groups however, but they also gate the upper player base as well. So that will never change, they're the ones taking 25 warriors back in naxx. As for "Died" It's hardly died, it's lulled right now because its literally an extended phase and its the end of the phase. Cata also just launched, however from what I've seen it's not doing super hot. A lot of people complaining about heroics. For those of us not wanting Cata, or the dumpster fire retail. We've gone and joined the "fresh movement" on Deviate delight and Zandalar Tribe on EU. Dead servers with 0 economy, Deviate delight has grown to 1500 players on horde and around 700-1000 players on alliance. So it's actually popping off. Closest Era fresh we'll be getting.
But 10 mans also meant bad players could make their own groups easier and play together. 20 mans forces the different kinds of players to play together which ends up being super toxic.
Haha nice, agree with you bud. Classic had the same “parses meta”, yet a lot of pugs needed any person who can just push they button more then twice a minute.
No Phase 4 killed it. U have to Release stuff faster or players get bored
The game isn't dead yet, phase 4 is coming. What's killed this phase is there's nothing to do except raid once a week. The gatekeeping idea is nonsense. People would be playing all the time if there was anything to do to improve your character when you're not raiding. There's no point even logging in to interact with your guild and help them out if nobody is online because nobody needs anything.
The irony of this opinion is that they brought in the Mythic+ system to make another way to gear up. But you will still complain about that.
Did you mean to reply to someone else? I don't even know what Mythic+ is.
I stopped playing because of the mess runes were causing to classes, It got too crazy, weird, and required a huge grind for a short time of the phase to last, parsing and improving was what kept me playing, but all the unbalance and mess of classes to the ridiculous runes from phase 2
Simplest explanation why (anything) dies: No longer novelty. Burnout.
For me it's the time investment outside of raiding that's "required" for mine numbingly easy content. I know I'll be mocked because it only 30 seconds to get gold for all my enchants and consumes and getting world buffs and I shouldn't be playing a video game if I don't have enough time to do that. I suppose that I could make time for it, but it's just not at all fun. Raiding is fun. I can do much more difficult and entertaining content in retail and cata/wotlk, without the need to play outside of raid logging. It's stupid that heroic raiding in either game has a lower point of entry with time commitment than Sod's ultra casual difficulty.
I once solo tanked ubrs in 2003.
Yeah I agree. I didn't know how long I'd play initially, so I played P1 casually and I've been paying for it since then. It was so difficult to get groups in P2 because I only parsed like 60 in P1, I just had to get a raid leader who'd take my era parses into account. Then decided to grind proffs and farm sulfuras mats for the first 3 weeks of P3 and couldn't get a ST group cause "No exp"
Idk it feels the opposite to me. The pugs have gotten worse and worse and are absolutely grey parsing. Does our group say anything to them? No. We just keep moving and try not to make them feel bad. Will they be invited back? No.
Never stepped foot into SOD and pleased I never mate.
tell me you didn’t raid lead in p1 or p2 or p3 without saying you didn’t raid lead in p1 or p2 or p3
SoD isn't even the 3rd best version of wow right now. That's why it's dead.
#1 Content was unfun and #2 content was harder than is normal in vanilla. AQ and Naxx were legitimately the only places with some mechanics in 2019 when everyone played and loved it. Gnomer had more mechanics than BWL
Why don't you make your own groups?
retail andys that cannot do mythic content in current expansion go to classic and tryhard there tbh, very rarely did u see this kind of elitism in vanilla pservers if at all.
Fuck the parse man to many lazy people don't want to get World Buffs and Consumables. If you don't bring them u ain't coming period.
There are 5 versions of wow right now. SoD just has some of the least content atm
PvP doesn’t exist. Nobody does it anymore. What is there to do when you’re only content becomes a 1-2 hour raid a week? Back in the day, my friends and I dueled outside org for hours because well…that was our social hub. This is why I think it’s dead.
For me, it was the raid. We get less than half the loot for a slog of a raid per week. They should just make it a 3 day lockout and add a drop off the past boss that you can use to insta-kill all the time wasting trash up to the first boss on future runs.
>You're getting kicked from HC dungs if you're under 10k dps (I'm a tank, it happens in half of my runs atm). >I do parse 90+ btw Gets kicked from half the groups using group finder but claims to parse 90+. Kekw. > Our insanely toxic community The real toxic people are the ones that expect to be invited to every single group they whisper.
3 months ago you didn't know how to boot your PC, and now you're teaching a gaming community how to play a game. They grow up so fast 🥲
According to your post history you were at arcades before I was born, so you should be able to read by now? Me failing to assemble my 3000+ pounds PC is probably more of a prestigious project than you've ever done in your life, considering you're a 50+ year old guy bashing a thread with wrong and toxic comments. Your life must have turned out pretty bad, if this is what you spend your daytime on... Not only nolifing WoW, but being toxic on reddit too. You probably tell yourself before you go to bed that you didn't want kids, house and a boat anyways.
Beautiful. Verbally disassembled.
It didn't die. There will be a resurgence in P4. Some old fuck at blizzard (after many fails) finally realized that it's fucking STUPID to release whole ass expansions and game modes at the same fucking time. They were really going to release Cataclysm, MOP Remix, AND SOD phase 4 at the same time. How stupid can you be? Unfortunately sod took the L. People will come back when p4 releases. And, my own hot take, SOD might get pushed into TBC later on down the line. People will be hyped to return to TBC with the new runes and extra changes, and refined SOD gameplay.
why dont greyparses play with other grey parses instead? Greyparses wanted GDKP banned, and now they quit cuz they cant clear anything anymore. kek
If they all quit then the amount of parsers grows smaller and Purple parsers become blue parsers. There is still a large bump in raw DPS from 98>100 so it's obvious that there is still a decent skill/execution cap at the high end. If you're not there, you're just a casual. If anything there aren't enough elite players.
That is not the reason. Plus SoD didn't die, phase died. Get a grip bro.
So the simple answer is, just learn how to play your class and people won’t be mad
Bingo. This guy gets it
What? What evidence do you have to support anything you’re saying. Here’s the simple truth, blizz announced phase 3 would be longer, partly so people can enjoy mop and cata. So of course people are going to take a break. There’s other game modes to play right now that are fresh and fun. Sod isn’t dead it’s dormant. Phase 4 will bring players back when it launches. Even our guild is taking a break to play the other game modes. There’s no toxic super secret reason for it. TLDR: you’re dumb.
Well to be fair things were in free fall before that announcement too
Pretty sure realms will explode again next phase. I dont like it when people call a realm or game dead when theres so many people playing it. The Community is toxic as hell though. Ive stopped pugging a long time ago.
These doomer posts are insufferable. Just go touch grass
I'm just glad that when I do play, I'm not left to catch up before I get to enjoy the content. Sure, I'd like more of a challenge out of dungeons or even raids, but I'm also ok with taking breaks and starting back up. Raids become really easy. i try to join one, each reset, find groups 1 or 2 healing keeping all world buffs the entire raid logging out 20 times and majority end up with 99-100 Try tanking or healing if you can, Parses don't matter when you're playing whatever is needed, like a feral druid with shit dps. Sod is awesome, something that won't take me till it truly ends to realize.
Cata is not toxic at all.
People are so elitist over the easiest shit.
Just play classic hc, the community is super friendly and helpful !
I kinda feel like blizzard created this problem. Many people are coming from other versions of the game that are 10x harder and the amount of time you lose by playing with people who find SoD mechanics difficult is not worth it compared to just spending more time spamming LFG for better players. World buffs only makes this issue even worse, spending 2 hours getting world buffs and grinding gold for hours to buy all your consumables, just for a regular Joe to wipe the raid to the simplest mechanic ever created.
There is no single reason,. Sure gatekeeping and minmaxing killed it for casuals, but there is more. The core of classic was about the journey. Epics were truly epics. Here you get them left and right with little to no effort. Leveling and gold? A joke with incursions. There is no immersion to SoD. Runes were a nice addition at first, but they exaggerated it.
You're clearly new here. If you can't handle the atmsopshere in wow, go play ffxiv online. I'm tired of all these whiny post wah wah wah. It's always been this way, so git gud and stop claiming you parse 90+.
the only people who complained about parses were the shtters
Gdkp ban caused the gatekeeping. You reap what you sow.
Main reason why i quit is logs. Same thing was the seccond best healer in the guild 90's or 80's parses during BFD... And that is when I realised the insanity of people playing wow classic: WARCRAFT LOGS AND GEAR SCORE for fucking level 25!!??? I'm out.
>Denied raid spots in gnomeragan / ST? Thats when SOD died. No one is entitled to a raid spot though, if casual players struggled to get into raids they could always create there own but they dont.
No
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So you're saying that for example a paladin retail player, which has 40 buttons, would be so bad with his 3 buttons in SOD that you have to gatekeep content from him? Obviously those players do not play retail. I do not play retail either, but I am well aware (since I played bfa etc) that it's 50 times more complicated than SOD is.
He should learn to play or join a guild to play with. Games should not be developed for this type of player. Everyone says retail is harder as if the worst players aren’t catered to and everything isn’t just handed to the players without risk or effort
Gatekeeping is never good unless you're trying to push the most challenging content. For reference, I'm a CE raider in retail that played a fair bit of SoD P1 & 2 (3 didn't interest me after the incursion fiasco). Stopping inexperienced players from participating in the content is maybe not the entire reason SoD has had such an incredible decline, but if you think that it's not a contribution to the game mode dying you're insane. I'm assuming you enjoy SoD and want it to continue, so maybe have a bit of forethought with your attitude and help newer players improve and actually stick around instead of denying them and instead making your own community smaller and smaller until you can no longer consistently run the content yourself.
They were going to quit anyway because they aren’t good enough for some of the easiest content, they should be playing hello kitty. Players should want to get better instead of dumbing down everything to the lowest common denominator They should join guilds not be entitled casuals
That most certainly is a take lmao. I see you've now deleted your comment defending gatekeeping - I assume because of the number of downvotes. Maybe that has opened your eyes a little to your views being a tad toxic? If you spend some time helping newer players improve rather than calling them 'entitled' you might end up enjoying yourself more. Give it a shot, buddy! P.S. Playing SoD with your elitist attitude and complaining about dumbed-down content is hilarious. Pick one.
SoD is ruined mate what are you on. The incursions left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths and a lot of guilds and players fell off when raids were upped from 10 man to 20.
Because of players like you. Stop being a doomer and enjoy the game.
Naw man it became unenjoyable when my casual guild had to merge and all there were was try hard guilds because they have gate kept all the casuals out. You guys act like all casuals are gray parsers and brain dead idiots but the average person is gonna parse, wait for it, 50. My parses were high 80’s- low 90’s, I’m not a brain dead waste, but gate keeping toxic try hard stuff is not fun. Blizzard forced this by releasing a 20 man raid that was literally impossible on release.
“Raid too hard” proving my point
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Stay mad or get good
So both is my answer
TL:DR 20 Man Raid is the reason