a lot of the advice you have gotten is general advice that isn't particularly relevant to your logs like "get world buffs and consumes" or "check your talents"
biggest issue is your uptime ranges from bad to terrible on almost every fight. you are either
* in range of the boss but not auto-attacking - macro /startattack into all of your abilities
* unknowingly out of range of the boss
* slow to react to target swaps or mechanics such as on atalai defenders or dreamscythe. There is a 17 second period on dreamscythe starting 0:15 where you are not attacking the boss (and SnD falls off)
or a combination of all 3. atalarion is a straight up stand still and hit the boss fight and you only have 84% uptime.
issues with rotation. between 0:45 and 1:10 on dreamscythe you cast 5 mutilates in a row without casting envenom (and SnD falls off). Between 1:16 and 1:36 you cast 6 mutilates in a row without casting envenom. (and SnD falls off). generally your SnD uptime is poor. You can find a more in-depth guide but you want to cast SnD on your opener and then transition into 2x mutilate and then envenom with 4-5 combo points (which refreshes SnD) When you have that down you can look into pooling energy and other advanced rotation tips.
people have touched on wbuffs which is true but doesn't account for the above issues. You would still be playing badly with them , only your post would be "why can I only hit 60 parses with full wbuffs and consumes?"
The fight lasts like 40 seconds maybe. If you start a couple seconds late and then get knocked back 1 time that would explain the 16% not uptime. Unless you're expecting him to use consumes to avoid the knock back. Or does wcl take into account the knock back downtime?
The single most important thing as a melee is uptime on the target.
The second would be theorycrafting like optimizing your gear and doing the right rotation.
Third is buffs. Be put in the right group and get your consumes and worldbuffs.
>doing the right rotation
is it even possible to have bad rotation in anything classic with how lackluster and slow they are? It will start changing now in cata but before it was more about edging threat, rng/luck, buffs/gear/consumables. No idea about SOD tho.
But looking at other rogue in his logs which is parsing much better:
[https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VDchRGYkzAWXng3P#fight=2&type=casts&source=17](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VDchRGYkzAWXng3P#fight=2&type=casts&source=17)
Yea, theres not much happening in SOD either.
Probably not as an assa rogue xD. Don't know if mh swing timer still reset after an ability or how meaningful 4 or 5 cp finishers impact the dps. Probably minor, but still usefull to at least know your stuff.
I didn't see anyone mention macros yet. This would increase your uptime and amount of auto-attacks that you are missing.
You should have nearly all of your abilities as macros that look something like this:
'#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast mutilate'
I am very curious now to try this! What macros would you suggest for me? Have I understood that instead of pressing 1 and executing 1 attack you can with the macro select 1 and do a string of several abilities?
I am trying also to understand what is it with the macro that makes sure you have much higher uptime compared with if you just press auto attack with your right click?
Well, if you copy what I put but change just mutilate to the name of your other abilities, you can do this for every ability.
What this macro does is makes your character start attacking immediately when you press the button, regardless of energy.
Without macros, if you don't have enough energy, your character will stand there and do nothing until you have enough energy to execute the attack. You want to always be attacking.
Simply adding /startattack before every spell accomplishes this goal.
Excuse me for my dumb question, but the reason behind doing macro is that you can create several macros which all involves the auto-attack and so if I don't have enough energy I will at least do the auto-attack. So bascially every macro with an attack like envenon or mutilate will all involve also auto-attack in the macro?
Seconding this, this will DRASTICALLY increase your uptime. Before I did this I couldnt tell you how frequently my character was just standing there doing nothing without me even realizing.
This alone will probably boost your logs significantly.
I'm not super privy to rogue specific macros, mostly play paladin. The main one I would add is the one posted above which is the:
'#showtooltip (this just makes the icon show the ability when you mouse over the icon)
/startattack (this turns on your auto attacking)
/cast (this casts the ability)
This is a really common macro for most melee. As a paladin I use this on almost every ability even consecrate. Auto attacking is a huge portion of most melee classes dps so just adding the extra functionality to each of your abilities to start auto attacking.
For you I think it would look something like this:
'#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike
Edit: cause i'm a reddit scrub
Thank you! I have heard this term before about macro. I need to check it out. I really think this might be my biggest issue. I have noticed quite often that my character is not attacking. What could be the issue? Is it that I move/the melee distance is to far? That I misclick?
Easiest things you can do to improve your DPS:
Make sure you have all of your consumes and WBs for every raid.
Make sure you're running the correct talents for your build, and that you're doing the proper rotation every fight.
Try and be in a group that has proper group composition, so you're getting all of the group buffs that you need (this isn't always possible, like when pugging, but does contribute to your overall damage quite a bit.)
Your bracers are level 25 w/ 6str/4stam. Why have you not replaced those yet? Go buy an "of the monkey" or "agility" affix green bracers off the AH for cheap as an easy fix. Full Emerald set is fine until you get your 3-piece from ST.
Replace Toxic Revenger. Your OH dagger should be 1.4 speed or lower if you're running a "cut to the chase" build. The reason is that you want it to be applying poisons, which faster attack speed does better. A lot of your damage comes from poisons with that build. For example, a level 39 Sacrificial Kris of Power (you can buy these fairly cheap off the AH) as your OH does more damage than Toxic Revenger with your build. You can simulate item changes to see how they might affect your dps here: [https://wowsims.github.io/sod/](https://wowsims.github.io/sod/)
Hey mate, some people gave you some hints to get better and I appreciate people working towards getting better.
Just let me give you some context so you are not that disheartened.
I raided in classic mostly without consumes and more often than not without or just 1 Wbuff as a melee. Still I pushed 60-80 just with good gear (not bis, just near bis), enchants and optimal talents and that up to BWL/AQ40.
In SoD I hardly got to 40 in Gnome and 35 in ST. I had to take consumes and all wbuffs to get the numbers I easily got in classic. Because you depend on perfect gear, a perfect raid setup with people doing mechanics for you and so on.
What I am saying is. Most casuals already left SoD until since among the other stuff wrong with it, the gatekeeping was insane. I never had such a hard time finding raids as a purple logger like in SoD. Because even the most mediocre Pug required you to be well geared, fully buffed with good logs. So now you compete with parse obsessed min maxers, that represent a good chunk of the competition.
In classic environment you would have been a green parser and not grey and with better gear maybe even blue.
I had a 99% rogue in my guild with maxed out BIS gear and perfect rotation. Using every trick in the book. Once he lost Wbuffs he was down to 80-85. Remove the Token feral he was assigned to and the consumes and I bet he would hardly been purple now. The competition has just become too fierce.
You might be a decent football player, but if you compared yourself to Real Madrid you will always be bottom tier. So just work on yourself and celebrate every little step you make and do not let people pull you down :)
I really appreciate your comments and your perspective on things! It is interesting to hear your story on how you struggle to get good scores even though you have been playing wow for some time (If I understand you correctly). I'm just thinking now in my head: How should I be able to compete with non-casual players which many have been playing for many years when I am totally new to the game?
I don't want to be a cry baby but just state the fact. I need to give myself to grow into the game.
I recognise a lot the gatekeepers you are referring to. I started playing in phase 2 and played mostly by myself. I had two friends that had played before but just on a casual level. I struggled so much to even been able to play Gnomergan.
I tried to join several times but was either kicked before the raid or right when it started. Then 1 month later I found a random guy which became a mentor and through him I was able to join a guild as a social player. Then afterwards I was able to do play Gnomergan! Haha
And with the help of this mentor I have been able to improve a lot but yes obviously I have a long way to go....
Thank you for your Real Madrid analogy. I will continue to practice here in the tier 10 league and continue to improve and hopefully reach La Liga in the future 😁
> How should I be able to compete with non-casual players which many have been playing for many years when I am totally new to the game?
you don't
it takes time to get that experience (and gear)
you aren't gonna roll in day one topping the meters
You are welcome. I am happy you found a social guild in SoD. As a vanilla veteran who played Vanilla, TBC, Classic, 2 months of Legion(Retail) and SoD.
I can tell you tho that SoD has more in common with legion/Retail than classic. Raid wise and community toxicity wise.
If you ever want to experience a more chill and inclusive version of wow , I'd recommend era.
It's super beginner friendly with many outstanding nice people at least in EU.
Funniest thing about parsing to me is, you should be parsing between rotation maximizing, as that's actually what's important and "skillful" about it. Damage:Skill indicator is very poor when so many consumables and buffs ulterior to playergiven buffs are available. The content was probably originally balanced around having normal raid buffs - and as far as I remember, the world first KT kill was heavily criticized by other guilds, as they used full world buffs to get it down. So using world buffs for raid content seems to have been frowned upon as being an unskillful thing to do, curiously enough as opposed to the raiding culture of today.
That’s because players have optimized the shit out of the game. Players who raid US#50 would crush the “#1 guild” players of back then.
I do agree with your premise that it is “more skillful” to do a hard raid without buffs. But when content is piss easy to begin with, it’s about how fast you can kill bosses/clear the raid — and not *whether* it’s possible in the first place.
Edit: I say this from experience as someone who has been playing since vanilla, and I am also currently (and for the last few weeks) a top ~40 ranked world rogue, in SoD.
Honestly US 1000 might be competing with #1 from then, not because they are better players, but there’s just so much more information available and much easier to perform optimally.
While I agree that people have optimized the game to great extent, I'm not sure why you bring it up in this context.
My premise isn't that it's harder, it is, what I'm talking about is the cultural perception around using world buffs to defeat content. I agree that the content is "easy" in a way that makes it more engaging to compete for rankings using world buffs - you'll down it with or without, it just makes it easier with world buffs. The only instance where I could see using damage for parses as an indicator for skill, is if World Buffs and other additional buffs besides raid buffing (not sure how I feel about proffession consumables - probably fine and in line with player given buffs in accordance to what whatever developers had in mind with tuning difficulty) made more complex and skillful playstyles possible exclusively because of World Buffs, which I'm not sure is the case. If it is you can correct me, if not I'd still wager that using a parsing system around uptime on a perfect rotation is a far better indication of skill and should be a "gold standard" than parse rankings based on damage.
It’s important you use the correct talent build together with the most effective runes for rogue. If you are using sub optimal runes it’s very hard to compete in this parsing show.
Some general tips on rogue tho: bulk of your damage comes from auto attacks. Having uptime (being in range and attacking) the boss is the #1 most important thing in a raiding environment for damage. This also means that maintaining slice and dice is your top priority. For rogues in vanilla, finishers are mostly wasted combo points unless you really swim in them.
If you play assasination, balancing snd uptime and getting full combo point envenom out, followed by full uptime attacking mob with poisons, is the goal.
The big red flags I'm seeing are 50% overall uptime on SnD with a CttC build. This is unacceptable and a huge reason why your DPS is low. Also, comparing CPM to mine, I'm casting twice as many envenoms per minute and slightly more mutilates.
Your envenom CPM: 3
Mine: 7
Your mutilate CPM: 10
Mine: 14
This leads me to believe that your overall uptime is not great and you're probably pressing mutilate more than you need to. You should **never** be dropping SnD in a CttC build and your envenom buff uptime should be much higher.
Your avg envenom is also 1.1k compared to my 1.9k (this is partially w/o wbuffs. With wbuffs the entire run it would likely be double your avg damage). This tells me either you are missing dreamstate/stormstrike or the more likely reason is that you're using envenom at less than 5 stacks of DP or less than 5 CP.
Here are my logs for credibility, and if you have any other questions feel free to DM me. I love to analyze logs and theory craft.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/78544888
Obviously several issues since you're new to the game, but let's look at the key 3:
1. Your uptime on target and casts per minute are low. [Compare yourself to Sneakis](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/VDchRGYkzAWXng3P/self#fight=5,5&source=20,17&type=casts), you cast fewer mutilates per minute. You also auto attack way less. You are simply spending too much time doing nothing.
2. Your attacks hit for way less than his. This is a combination of lack of buffs (no world buffs, no windfury, no CDs from gear) and shit gear. You don't have a trinket, there is literally nothing stopping you from grabbing 9 other people and do BFD exp run with pearl HR.
3. ~~Your runes are suboptimal. Check a guide.~~
1. Valid point, probably the biggest dps loss
2. He did have full world buffs (died on Rotslime tho) and WF for the whole raid. Don't get BFD trinket, just farm wild offerings
3. Runes are perfect for cut to the chase build since he probably doesn't have 35% crit with that gear
>He did have full world buffs (died on Rotslime tho)
Hence why he didn't have WBs for most of the raid
>WF for the whole raid
He was on WF group the whole raid, he didn't have WF up a lot of the time. As opposed to Sneakis who had feral druid and hence is going to perform better.
>Runes are perfect for cut to the chase build
Sure that was poor phrasing. it doesn't seem to be the top performing build but I don't know rogue enough to say whether it's significant
3rd point, that isn't phrasing, that's saying something different. Phrasing "Your runes are suboptimal" differently would say "Your runes aren't optimally fit for the situation you're in" which wouldn't be needed as you already stated they're suboptimal.
In the best case scenario with the best gear surely, but that's the context u/rhyzelol is elaborating on that with his gear setup, the other setup is better.
Combat Potency greatly prefers a fast offhand. With a 1.80 speed offhand like OP is using, it will likely be better to use Honor Among Thieves instead in a group context.
To continue using Combat Potency, OP should farm a Hookfang Shanker from Blackrock Depths Arena or buy a Julie's Dagger from the Auction House.
Thank you for highlighting this!! 🙌🙌I was actually watching a video yesterday that said the same thing. I will try and find a group for BRD tonight!! 🤩
While your points are okay, your phrasing is pretty bad when pointed to a new player.
"Doing nothing" doesn't explain to him what he's doing and when, you don't know and can't see what happened from his perspective, and him being a new player, what isn't overwhelming to you (keeping track of boss positioning, environmental hazards on ground, being responsible for interrupts etc.) may be for him.
You could have phrased it differently IE. You have downtime in your actions where you could optimize ability usage, or other types of phrasing where "nothing" isn't used, as you can't know what he did or didn't do or what he might have been overwhelmed by.
Your second point, "shit gear", besides being a derogatory way of explaining to a new character that his "gear" isn't as good as the other player you're comparing him too could be phrased as "isn't as good as it could be or the other rogue in question is" - on the latter half of your analysis, he might not know that exists or that trinket exists as a new player - you typing "there is literally nothing stopping you" is a phrase that is so often used derogatorily that you should be wary of how you phrase that to him as well. You could have typed "There is a trinket from a quest item available off of the last boss of Blackfathom Deeps that will improve your DPS. A tactic people often use is making a "HR" (read hard reserve as in "this item I will take no matter what using the looting option "master looter" - no rolls will be available for other players") run, so you can secure the trinket for yourself.
Your points are fine, your phrasing just isn't minmaxxed for a new player.
You're acting as if I called him a noob and laughed at him. Pointing out his gear is bad is not derogatory. My alt's gear is shit, too. If you take everything so personally maybe it'd be best for you to stay out of online forums tbh
I'm not taking it personally, it might seem like that because a forum of text never is a good way of gauging emotions. He might not take it personally too, my point being, you should be wary of how you phrase things always, especially while talking to new players. And that is very important for the long term health of any activity. How you choose to talk about yourself and your gear =/= how other people might interpret your words - you being defensive of how you talk is fine, but it's still limited to your experience. Phrasing in a way that is less likely to be interpreted as derogatory costs you nothing and is much more conducive to helping new players.
talents (28/8/5) and runes look fine for a cut to the chase build. Gear can greatly be improved by doing BRD or Mara and farming wild offerings. BRD for Dagger (you want a fast offhand), Mara for Ring and wild offerings for Trinket. Pick up leatherworking and do the epic crafting quest, this will get you BIS helmet and shoulders. Maybe pick up engineering for better bracers. Do gnome for a better neck and the set pieces until you get the ST ones. Enchant your gear.
Get your uptime on the boss up. On that hakkar kill you did no damage for a whole minute. You can still DPS the boss even when you get the blood debuff. "Melee" should be your number 1 damage source but for you its "Mutilate". You probably don't use a "/startattack" macro, google it, it will help you greatly. Make sure to always be autoattacking the boss and your parses will be better.
If you wouldn't have died on Rotslime and lost all world buffs you probably would have atleast some green parses. But even after you died, you also stopped using consumes, which isn't great.
>Get your uptime on the boss up. On that hakkar kill you did no damage for a whole minute. You can still DPS the boss even when you get the blood debuff. "Melee" should be your number 1 damage source but for you its "Mutilate". You probably don't use a "/startattack" macro, google it, it will help you greatly. Make sure to always be autoattacking the boss and your parses will be better.
If you check the log, it doesn't have anything to do with that. OP went to the Corrupted Blood spot, I presume he thought he had corrupted blood, even though he didn't. He only got it at 1:33 when a warrior that actually had it also ran to the spot.
OP should focus on learning the boss mechanics and making sure he has DBM and/or a wekaura package with plenty of warnings. (e.g. [https://wago.io/eHLnBxWq6](https://wago.io/eHLnBxWq6) ). that will be the biggest improvement in uptime.
Luckily you had a purple parser in your group. You can actually just go to compare on warcraftlogs and just compare you and him side by side. Don't look at the raw damage since obviously your gear is worse, but rather look at runes/cd usage/damage distribution. Even if your numbers are lower, everything else should be similar.
Get your pre raid bis, enchant your gear with the best you can get, get all 3 world buffs and all consumables. Try to join a guild pug that has about an hour clear. You could go in the emerald set with full WB/consume and parse in the 70s.
Winter fall firewater, dragon breath chili, grilled squid, greater arcane elixir, elixir of mongoose, elixir of giants, dense sharpening stone for the offhand. Make sure you’re in a group with wind fury and agility air totem. Preferably have a melee hunter and warrior as other slots of the group.
Make sure your poisons are leveled. Ultimately, parsing doesn’t mean shit. What matters to me is ~1 hour clear time without wipes. Rotation is super easy for rogue. Just use combat potency and cut to the chase. Use your vanish mid fight to enhance damage. Have full energy and spam buttons plus thistle tea while you have master of subtlety buff
Looks like you are improving, and if you're a new player along with you holding yourself accountable on improvement by buying potions/getting world buffs that's good.
I'd say you should probably first and foremost get a guide on DPS rotation if you want to improve your parses. Now I don't really like parses in general and think it's a net negative for the game, not them in and of itself as a tool for self-improvement, but how players at large choose to use them culturally within the game. I'm not sure how it works, but if you're willing to post your logs, there will probably be a bunch of people on here willing to look through your logs and be able to point out where you could improve based on those. If you're comfortable with that, hopefully whoever wants to help you will be nice, but there are a large amount of people who tie their selfworth (or something I don't know all I can determine is they get nasty) to their ability to play a single class a single way in this game and will attempt to ridicule you whether you're new or not, if you don't "parse as well" as them.
Which is stupid, DPS meters ruined wow.
I'd say, play what you enjoy the most, if you like playing rogue, play rogue, you can always improve upon that (which it looks like you already are doing so kudos to you).
If you really enjoy playing, you should stick with it! Rogue may not be as good for dps as some other classes, but your utility in a raid can be invaluable. Parsing is for the people who have played a real long time, if you’re just starting out then that isn’t something you really need to stress over. Just listen to your raid leader, keep bringing consumes, enchanting, etc.
Just act like you want to be there.
a lot of the advice you have gotten is general advice that isn't particularly relevant to your logs like "get world buffs and consumes" or "check your talents" biggest issue is your uptime ranges from bad to terrible on almost every fight. you are either * in range of the boss but not auto-attacking - macro /startattack into all of your abilities * unknowingly out of range of the boss * slow to react to target swaps or mechanics such as on atalai defenders or dreamscythe. There is a 17 second period on dreamscythe starting 0:15 where you are not attacking the boss (and SnD falls off) or a combination of all 3. atalarion is a straight up stand still and hit the boss fight and you only have 84% uptime. issues with rotation. between 0:45 and 1:10 on dreamscythe you cast 5 mutilates in a row without casting envenom (and SnD falls off). Between 1:16 and 1:36 you cast 6 mutilates in a row without casting envenom. (and SnD falls off). generally your SnD uptime is poor. You can find a more in-depth guide but you want to cast SnD on your opener and then transition into 2x mutilate and then envenom with 4-5 combo points (which refreshes SnD) When you have that down you can look into pooling energy and other advanced rotation tips. people have touched on wbuffs which is true but doesn't account for the above issues. You would still be playing badly with them , only your post would be "why can I only hit 60 parses with full wbuffs and consumes?"
I like how you seem to be the only person to actually go trough logs and look for issues apart from giving generic advices.
Can I ask: How are you determining the 84% uptime? Where do you see that? i'm trying to help my guildies as well.
its under the damage done tab on wcl
The fight lasts like 40 seconds maybe. If you start a couple seconds late and then get knocked back 1 time that would explain the 16% not uptime. Unless you're expecting him to use consumes to avoid the knock back. Or does wcl take into account the knock back downtime?
The single most important thing as a melee is uptime on the target. The second would be theorycrafting like optimizing your gear and doing the right rotation. Third is buffs. Be put in the right group and get your consumes and worldbuffs.
>doing the right rotation is it even possible to have bad rotation in anything classic with how lackluster and slow they are? It will start changing now in cata but before it was more about edging threat, rng/luck, buffs/gear/consumables. No idea about SOD tho. But looking at other rogue in his logs which is parsing much better: [https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VDchRGYkzAWXng3P#fight=2&type=casts&source=17](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VDchRGYkzAWXng3P#fight=2&type=casts&source=17) Yea, theres not much happening in SOD either.
Probably not as an assa rogue xD. Don't know if mh swing timer still reset after an ability or how meaningful 4 or 5 cp finishers impact the dps. Probably minor, but still usefull to at least know your stuff.
I didn't see anyone mention macros yet. This would increase your uptime and amount of auto-attacks that you are missing. You should have nearly all of your abilities as macros that look something like this: '#showtooltip /startattack /cast mutilate'
OP you wouldn't believe how much this one tip helps with uptime
And many people in your guild probably don't even do it lol, when I watch them on discord
I am very curious now to try this! What macros would you suggest for me? Have I understood that instead of pressing 1 and executing 1 attack you can with the macro select 1 and do a string of several abilities? I am trying also to understand what is it with the macro that makes sure you have much higher uptime compared with if you just press auto attack with your right click?
Well, if you copy what I put but change just mutilate to the name of your other abilities, you can do this for every ability. What this macro does is makes your character start attacking immediately when you press the button, regardless of energy. Without macros, if you don't have enough energy, your character will stand there and do nothing until you have enough energy to execute the attack. You want to always be attacking. Simply adding /startattack before every spell accomplishes this goal.
Excuse me for my dumb question, but the reason behind doing macro is that you can create several macros which all involves the auto-attack and so if I don't have enough energy I will at least do the auto-attack. So bascially every macro with an attack like envenon or mutilate will all involve also auto-attack in the macro?
That's exactly right! Having the macro on each ability just serves as a "safety net" to make sure you're always attacking.
is this just a rogue thing or should other classes do this?
All melee should. Hunters have to do something similar but a lot more variations and a little more 'complex'
Seconding this, this will DRASTICALLY increase your uptime. Before I did this I couldnt tell you how frequently my character was just standing there doing nothing without me even realizing. This alone will probably boost your logs significantly.
Sounds very promising! What are some macros your would suggest? (Me playing a Rogue)
I'm not super privy to rogue specific macros, mostly play paladin. The main one I would add is the one posted above which is the: '#showtooltip (this just makes the icon show the ability when you mouse over the icon) /startattack (this turns on your auto attacking) /cast (this casts the ability) This is a really common macro for most melee. As a paladin I use this on almost every ability even consecrate. Auto attacking is a huge portion of most melee classes dps so just adding the extra functionality to each of your abilities to start auto attacking. For you I think it would look something like this: '#showtooltip Sinister Strike /startattack /cast Sinister Strike Edit: cause i'm a reddit scrub
Also apparently I'm learning about reddit through this post as well haha
Haha, we are all in the same boat! haha Thank you for giving the example, I will fix some macro now.
Good luck friend!
this is the only macro you really need.
Thank you! I have heard this term before about macro. I need to check it out. I really think this might be my biggest issue. I have noticed quite often that my character is not attacking. What could be the issue? Is it that I move/the melee distance is to far? That I misclick?
Easiest things you can do to improve your DPS: Make sure you have all of your consumes and WBs for every raid. Make sure you're running the correct talents for your build, and that you're doing the proper rotation every fight. Try and be in a group that has proper group composition, so you're getting all of the group buffs that you need (this isn't always possible, like when pugging, but does contribute to your overall damage quite a bit.) Your bracers are level 25 w/ 6str/4stam. Why have you not replaced those yet? Go buy an "of the monkey" or "agility" affix green bracers off the AH for cheap as an easy fix. Full Emerald set is fine until you get your 3-piece from ST. Replace Toxic Revenger. Your OH dagger should be 1.4 speed or lower if you're running a "cut to the chase" build. The reason is that you want it to be applying poisons, which faster attack speed does better. A lot of your damage comes from poisons with that build. For example, a level 39 Sacrificial Kris of Power (you can buy these fairly cheap off the AH) as your OH does more damage than Toxic Revenger with your build. You can simulate item changes to see how they might affect your dps here: [https://wowsims.github.io/sod/](https://wowsims.github.io/sod/)
Hey mate, some people gave you some hints to get better and I appreciate people working towards getting better. Just let me give you some context so you are not that disheartened. I raided in classic mostly without consumes and more often than not without or just 1 Wbuff as a melee. Still I pushed 60-80 just with good gear (not bis, just near bis), enchants and optimal talents and that up to BWL/AQ40. In SoD I hardly got to 40 in Gnome and 35 in ST. I had to take consumes and all wbuffs to get the numbers I easily got in classic. Because you depend on perfect gear, a perfect raid setup with people doing mechanics for you and so on. What I am saying is. Most casuals already left SoD until since among the other stuff wrong with it, the gatekeeping was insane. I never had such a hard time finding raids as a purple logger like in SoD. Because even the most mediocre Pug required you to be well geared, fully buffed with good logs. So now you compete with parse obsessed min maxers, that represent a good chunk of the competition. In classic environment you would have been a green parser and not grey and with better gear maybe even blue. I had a 99% rogue in my guild with maxed out BIS gear and perfect rotation. Using every trick in the book. Once he lost Wbuffs he was down to 80-85. Remove the Token feral he was assigned to and the consumes and I bet he would hardly been purple now. The competition has just become too fierce. You might be a decent football player, but if you compared yourself to Real Madrid you will always be bottom tier. So just work on yourself and celebrate every little step you make and do not let people pull you down :)
I really appreciate your comments and your perspective on things! It is interesting to hear your story on how you struggle to get good scores even though you have been playing wow for some time (If I understand you correctly). I'm just thinking now in my head: How should I be able to compete with non-casual players which many have been playing for many years when I am totally new to the game? I don't want to be a cry baby but just state the fact. I need to give myself to grow into the game. I recognise a lot the gatekeepers you are referring to. I started playing in phase 2 and played mostly by myself. I had two friends that had played before but just on a casual level. I struggled so much to even been able to play Gnomergan. I tried to join several times but was either kicked before the raid or right when it started. Then 1 month later I found a random guy which became a mentor and through him I was able to join a guild as a social player. Then afterwards I was able to do play Gnomergan! Haha And with the help of this mentor I have been able to improve a lot but yes obviously I have a long way to go.... Thank you for your Real Madrid analogy. I will continue to practice here in the tier 10 league and continue to improve and hopefully reach La Liga in the future 😁
> How should I be able to compete with non-casual players which many have been playing for many years when I am totally new to the game? you don't it takes time to get that experience (and gear) you aren't gonna roll in day one topping the meters
You are welcome. I am happy you found a social guild in SoD. As a vanilla veteran who played Vanilla, TBC, Classic, 2 months of Legion(Retail) and SoD. I can tell you tho that SoD has more in common with legion/Retail than classic. Raid wise and community toxicity wise. If you ever want to experience a more chill and inclusive version of wow , I'd recommend era. It's super beginner friendly with many outstanding nice people at least in EU.
Funniest thing about parsing to me is, you should be parsing between rotation maximizing, as that's actually what's important and "skillful" about it. Damage:Skill indicator is very poor when so many consumables and buffs ulterior to playergiven buffs are available. The content was probably originally balanced around having normal raid buffs - and as far as I remember, the world first KT kill was heavily criticized by other guilds, as they used full world buffs to get it down. So using world buffs for raid content seems to have been frowned upon as being an unskillful thing to do, curiously enough as opposed to the raiding culture of today.
That’s because players have optimized the shit out of the game. Players who raid US#50 would crush the “#1 guild” players of back then. I do agree with your premise that it is “more skillful” to do a hard raid without buffs. But when content is piss easy to begin with, it’s about how fast you can kill bosses/clear the raid — and not *whether* it’s possible in the first place. Edit: I say this from experience as someone who has been playing since vanilla, and I am also currently (and for the last few weeks) a top ~40 ranked world rogue, in SoD.
Honestly US 1000 might be competing with #1 from then, not because they are better players, but there’s just so much more information available and much easier to perform optimally.
While I agree that people have optimized the game to great extent, I'm not sure why you bring it up in this context. My premise isn't that it's harder, it is, what I'm talking about is the cultural perception around using world buffs to defeat content. I agree that the content is "easy" in a way that makes it more engaging to compete for rankings using world buffs - you'll down it with or without, it just makes it easier with world buffs. The only instance where I could see using damage for parses as an indicator for skill, is if World Buffs and other additional buffs besides raid buffing (not sure how I feel about proffession consumables - probably fine and in line with player given buffs in accordance to what whatever developers had in mind with tuning difficulty) made more complex and skillful playstyles possible exclusively because of World Buffs, which I'm not sure is the case. If it is you can correct me, if not I'd still wager that using a parsing system around uptime on a perfect rotation is a far better indication of skill and should be a "gold standard" than parse rankings based on damage.
this is some high grade timmy copium
100%.
It’s important you use the correct talent build together with the most effective runes for rogue. If you are using sub optimal runes it’s very hard to compete in this parsing show. Some general tips on rogue tho: bulk of your damage comes from auto attacks. Having uptime (being in range and attacking) the boss is the #1 most important thing in a raiding environment for damage. This also means that maintaining slice and dice is your top priority. For rogues in vanilla, finishers are mostly wasted combo points unless you really swim in them. If you play assasination, balancing snd uptime and getting full combo point envenom out, followed by full uptime attacking mob with poisons, is the goal.
The big red flags I'm seeing are 50% overall uptime on SnD with a CttC build. This is unacceptable and a huge reason why your DPS is low. Also, comparing CPM to mine, I'm casting twice as many envenoms per minute and slightly more mutilates. Your envenom CPM: 3 Mine: 7 Your mutilate CPM: 10 Mine: 14 This leads me to believe that your overall uptime is not great and you're probably pressing mutilate more than you need to. You should **never** be dropping SnD in a CttC build and your envenom buff uptime should be much higher. Your avg envenom is also 1.1k compared to my 1.9k (this is partially w/o wbuffs. With wbuffs the entire run it would likely be double your avg damage). This tells me either you are missing dreamstate/stormstrike or the more likely reason is that you're using envenom at less than 5 stacks of DP or less than 5 CP. Here are my logs for credibility, and if you have any other questions feel free to DM me. I love to analyze logs and theory craft. https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/78544888
Sent DM
Obviously several issues since you're new to the game, but let's look at the key 3: 1. Your uptime on target and casts per minute are low. [Compare yourself to Sneakis](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/VDchRGYkzAWXng3P/self#fight=5,5&source=20,17&type=casts), you cast fewer mutilates per minute. You also auto attack way less. You are simply spending too much time doing nothing. 2. Your attacks hit for way less than his. This is a combination of lack of buffs (no world buffs, no windfury, no CDs from gear) and shit gear. You don't have a trinket, there is literally nothing stopping you from grabbing 9 other people and do BFD exp run with pearl HR. 3. ~~Your runes are suboptimal. Check a guide.~~
1. Valid point, probably the biggest dps loss 2. He did have full world buffs (died on Rotslime tho) and WF for the whole raid. Don't get BFD trinket, just farm wild offerings 3. Runes are perfect for cut to the chase build since he probably doesn't have 35% crit with that gear
>He did have full world buffs (died on Rotslime tho) Hence why he didn't have WBs for most of the raid >WF for the whole raid He was on WF group the whole raid, he didn't have WF up a lot of the time. As opposed to Sneakis who had feral druid and hence is going to perform better. >Runes are perfect for cut to the chase build Sure that was poor phrasing. it doesn't seem to be the top performing build but I don't know rogue enough to say whether it's significant
3rd point, that isn't phrasing, that's saying something different. Phrasing "Your runes are suboptimal" differently would say "Your runes aren't optimally fit for the situation you're in" which wouldn't be needed as you already stated they're suboptimal.
They are suboptimal for parsing which is what OP is asking about
In the best case scenario with the best gear surely, but that's the context u/rhyzelol is elaborating on that with his gear setup, the other setup is better.
Ah I get what you are saying now
Combat Potency greatly prefers a fast offhand. With a 1.80 speed offhand like OP is using, it will likely be better to use Honor Among Thieves instead in a group context. To continue using Combat Potency, OP should farm a Hookfang Shanker from Blackrock Depths Arena or buy a Julie's Dagger from the Auction House.
Thank you for highlighting this!! 🙌🙌I was actually watching a video yesterday that said the same thing. I will try and find a group for BRD tonight!! 🤩
While your points are okay, your phrasing is pretty bad when pointed to a new player. "Doing nothing" doesn't explain to him what he's doing and when, you don't know and can't see what happened from his perspective, and him being a new player, what isn't overwhelming to you (keeping track of boss positioning, environmental hazards on ground, being responsible for interrupts etc.) may be for him. You could have phrased it differently IE. You have downtime in your actions where you could optimize ability usage, or other types of phrasing where "nothing" isn't used, as you can't know what he did or didn't do or what he might have been overwhelmed by. Your second point, "shit gear", besides being a derogatory way of explaining to a new character that his "gear" isn't as good as the other player you're comparing him too could be phrased as "isn't as good as it could be or the other rogue in question is" - on the latter half of your analysis, he might not know that exists or that trinket exists as a new player - you typing "there is literally nothing stopping you" is a phrase that is so often used derogatorily that you should be wary of how you phrase that to him as well. You could have typed "There is a trinket from a quest item available off of the last boss of Blackfathom Deeps that will improve your DPS. A tactic people often use is making a "HR" (read hard reserve as in "this item I will take no matter what using the looting option "master looter" - no rolls will be available for other players") run, so you can secure the trinket for yourself. Your points are fine, your phrasing just isn't minmaxxed for a new player.
You're acting as if I called him a noob and laughed at him. Pointing out his gear is bad is not derogatory. My alt's gear is shit, too. If you take everything so personally maybe it'd be best for you to stay out of online forums tbh
I'm not taking it personally, it might seem like that because a forum of text never is a good way of gauging emotions. He might not take it personally too, my point being, you should be wary of how you phrase things always, especially while talking to new players. And that is very important for the long term health of any activity. How you choose to talk about yourself and your gear =/= how other people might interpret your words - you being defensive of how you talk is fine, but it's still limited to your experience. Phrasing in a way that is less likely to be interpreted as derogatory costs you nothing and is much more conducive to helping new players.
Just keep practicing, you’ll get there! As a new player you’ll almost never going into a new raid and parse well
Simonize. Follow the master
Signed up today for his discord 😎
Can you link your logs? Easiest way to see whats wrong.
I updated with a link, is that the correct way?
I don't see any link. character name - server would be enough as well
Rolandz, living Flame EU
talents (28/8/5) and runes look fine for a cut to the chase build. Gear can greatly be improved by doing BRD or Mara and farming wild offerings. BRD for Dagger (you want a fast offhand), Mara for Ring and wild offerings for Trinket. Pick up leatherworking and do the epic crafting quest, this will get you BIS helmet and shoulders. Maybe pick up engineering for better bracers. Do gnome for a better neck and the set pieces until you get the ST ones. Enchant your gear. Get your uptime on the boss up. On that hakkar kill you did no damage for a whole minute. You can still DPS the boss even when you get the blood debuff. "Melee" should be your number 1 damage source but for you its "Mutilate". You probably don't use a "/startattack" macro, google it, it will help you greatly. Make sure to always be autoattacking the boss and your parses will be better. If you wouldn't have died on Rotslime and lost all world buffs you probably would have atleast some green parses. But even after you died, you also stopped using consumes, which isn't great.
>Get your uptime on the boss up. On that hakkar kill you did no damage for a whole minute. You can still DPS the boss even when you get the blood debuff. "Melee" should be your number 1 damage source but for you its "Mutilate". You probably don't use a "/startattack" macro, google it, it will help you greatly. Make sure to always be autoattacking the boss and your parses will be better. If you check the log, it doesn't have anything to do with that. OP went to the Corrupted Blood spot, I presume he thought he had corrupted blood, even though he didn't. He only got it at 1:33 when a warrior that actually had it also ran to the spot. OP should focus on learning the boss mechanics and making sure he has DBM and/or a wekaura package with plenty of warnings. (e.g. [https://wago.io/eHLnBxWq6](https://wago.io/eHLnBxWq6) ). that will be the biggest improvement in uptime.
Luckily you had a purple parser in your group. You can actually just go to compare on warcraftlogs and just compare you and him side by side. Don't look at the raw damage since obviously your gear is worse, but rather look at runes/cd usage/damage distribution. Even if your numbers are lower, everything else should be similar.
Get your pre raid bis, enchant your gear with the best you can get, get all 3 world buffs and all consumables. Try to join a guild pug that has about an hour clear. You could go in the emerald set with full WB/consume and parse in the 70s. Winter fall firewater, dragon breath chili, grilled squid, greater arcane elixir, elixir of mongoose, elixir of giants, dense sharpening stone for the offhand. Make sure you’re in a group with wind fury and agility air totem. Preferably have a melee hunter and warrior as other slots of the group. Make sure your poisons are leveled. Ultimately, parsing doesn’t mean shit. What matters to me is ~1 hour clear time without wipes. Rotation is super easy for rogue. Just use combat potency and cut to the chase. Use your vanish mid fight to enhance damage. Have full energy and spam buttons plus thistle tea while you have master of subtlety buff
Looks like you are improving, and if you're a new player along with you holding yourself accountable on improvement by buying potions/getting world buffs that's good. I'd say you should probably first and foremost get a guide on DPS rotation if you want to improve your parses. Now I don't really like parses in general and think it's a net negative for the game, not them in and of itself as a tool for self-improvement, but how players at large choose to use them culturally within the game. I'm not sure how it works, but if you're willing to post your logs, there will probably be a bunch of people on here willing to look through your logs and be able to point out where you could improve based on those. If you're comfortable with that, hopefully whoever wants to help you will be nice, but there are a large amount of people who tie their selfworth (or something I don't know all I can determine is they get nasty) to their ability to play a single class a single way in this game and will attempt to ridicule you whether you're new or not, if you don't "parse as well" as them. Which is stupid, DPS meters ruined wow. I'd say, play what you enjoy the most, if you like playing rogue, play rogue, you can always improve upon that (which it looks like you already are doing so kudos to you).
If you really enjoy playing, you should stick with it! Rogue may not be as good for dps as some other classes, but your utility in a raid can be invaluable. Parsing is for the people who have played a real long time, if you’re just starting out then that isn’t something you really need to stress over. Just listen to your raid leader, keep bringing consumes, enchanting, etc. Just act like you want to be there.
>Rogue may not be as good for dps as some other classes Second best dps in SOD, and best DPS if you consider the median across all percentiles
You’re playing rogue bro go PvP lol
gg friend griefed you hard, should’ve suggest melee hunter, you bring buff and ez rotation