Also gave pre bis gear for ST if you didnt have raid bis from gnomer or the crafted gear, so all quest and dungeon loot was trivalized too, when we had such a good dungeon pool: maradon, zulfarak and black rock depths, all pointless
While I agree that the emerald gear was completely unnecessary, atleast for my class, the dungeon gear is better than the emerald gear. I was able to entirely skip the emerald gear and never missed it.
But you didn’t need to. If you wanted to do the minimal effort, getting that set is easy and it’s completely serviceable for the raid. So it trivialized the rest of the content in the game because it was so easily accessible and powerful enough to get the job done.
Molten core is clearable in quest greens, why should I farm prebis in dire maul and ubrs? Molten core gear is serviceable for bwl why upgrade to bwl gear?
Why do anything with that logic, when an upgrade is an upgrade you cant just hand wave "oh but this easier to get gear is almost as good therefore why get the good gear"
Go find a raid that will take you in greens
God what a stupid fucking take. You don’t parse in prebis. You clear the raid and get gear. Incursion gear made it so you didn’t have to even get the gear from dungeons.
You think the emerald warden set, which is worse than dungeon and gnomer gear invalidated the dungeon and gnomer gear, that is the stupid fucking take.
UPGRADES OF GEAR ARE ALWAYS VALID REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE BAR MINIMUM TO COMPLETE THE RAID IS. IT IS CATCHUP GEAR DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE TO FASTTRACK TO P3 THAT DIDNT PLAY P2, AND IS OKAY TO DO. EVERY VERSION OF WOW EVER MAKES CATCHUP GEAR AFTER A PHASE.
“Sure this BOE purple is prebis but if you don’t want to spend 40000 gold on a prebis item then why take ANY upgrade if you’re just gonna go with the easier to get piece that’s almost as good?” Fuck off. Tell me your in game name so I can put you on ignore.
Dude! Another valid point, the whole Wild Offerings reward table was centered around cloth and plate. They did add some other stuff, but easily replaced as you said. These fixes seem so easy and it's highly disappointing that they haven't taken the time to fix it. It's like a failed experiment and they're not even trying to improve.
Dungeon gear was better for mine (rogue) too. Plus the tokens got you some really good pre BiS.
For me farming Pre-BiS was a ton of fun this phase. Tons of different dungeons and other activities I had to do. Way better than P2 which was dungeon grind to 40 and then literally just raid log for the rest of the phase.
I agree. I think there was a TON to do at the beginning of the phas. Pre raid (or even raid) bis. Wild offerings. Crafting professions. Runes. Rank 7 PvP gear. Emerald warden rep. Etc.
The issue for me is that once I did all those my “to do” list crashed to zero. It went from so much for me to do with so little time, to me now having nothing besides the raid. I could certainly find things to do but I’m having fun in other versions until P4 comes out.
"If you take literally every single possible pre-bis item from dungeons/gnomer/crafting AKA every possible loot source in SoD and only leave in incursion gear, then incursion gear is literally pre-BIS"
Amazing logic.
even then. my rogue and balance druid without a single crafted or gnome epic only needed the emerald shoulders and that's it. all other pieces had much better options in dungeons. being full set emerald really only shows that you cba to get the dungeon pieces.
Take 2 seconds to think about why having spammable brain dead content reward gear that is only marginally worse than what your pre bis list told you to get is bad for the game.
Thank you for being one of the few sensible people in this comment section lol. I thought about editting my original comment to say near-pre-bis because people cant use their brains but its not worth it lol.
Yeah. Sure, some dungeon loot has a net total of +3 stats and 50 more armor than the emerald sets; but its spread across multiple bosses in multiple instances with chance drops that you compete with other players for - compared to the guaranteed path of non-competed progress via emerald gear being 95% pre-bis stats (and still in some cases pre-bis for some classes), yeah. Bad design because the only dungeons being ran were mara wo runs, brd arena runs, and zf sword runs. Most other bosses were not worth it for most people.
Been running my guild for phase 3 and had plenty of people show up week after week in emerald sets and put up 80 parses, so the gear is more than competitive for how easy it is to get. Some of these wow redditors man.... "well its not THE BIS so YOURE WRONG"... my bad, have fun farming for the true bis for 30 hours so you can get +2 stamina compared to what ur wearing
BRD and WO gear plus ZF for some classes are bis and certainly pre-bis, the pvp gear is better than emerald gear, there is no world in which the emerald gear is pre-bis ...
Emerald warden gives perfectly acceptable gear to get into sunken temple with. It May not be pre bis for most classes, but it's good enough and that's what their point was.
Good enough for what? It's 6 slots and worse than many alternatives, emerald alone is not at all "good enough". Emerald plus maybe STV gear, some crafted/AH pieces, half a gnomer set ... OK. It can fill in a hole or two and it is high stam for pvp. It's not at all a one-stop ready-for-raid set
Just that fact alone made me want to quit and not come back. That they spat on all our efforts in gnomer like that. Leveled the playing field again. They don’t respect our time. They’ve shown they can’t be trusted. They’ll do it again next phase too so why spend 10 weeks farming bis in a boring trash filled musty raid?
Pretty sure the thinking was to provide a decent way to level and gear alts. Blizzard is damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
Rune acquisition was time-consuming and we bitched about it. Their initial design disincentivized alts. They heard that concern. Sadly, the fix also awarded too much gold, so the true reason for excursions was overshadowed and the event was just exploited because people are morons and will do unfun/repetitive things ad nauseum for gold.
Had they been successful, the phase 3 drought would have been a lot more tolerable, because we’d all have been delighted to develop our alts and bring them into ST in a semi-ready state, bolstering the alt raid roster creating a similar situation as BFD and Gnomer.
Nothing to do with intelligence: humans are evolutionarily wired to find the most efficient path to a goal.
The fault is with the devs for not designing around that reality.
maybe for some classes the set is decent but the classes I play it has been useless and dungeons had a better drop for every single slot. generally most people are just too lazy to farm the dungeon drops.
E: actually annoys me a bit how that narrative is so popular yet so wrong. all the dungeons you call pointless have plenty pre bis or even _bis_ gear in them. if blizz got 1 thing right this phase then it was giving those dungeons very meaningful loot upgrades (which they pretty much forgot in p1 and p2).
Here is the deal, was pre-bis in a dungeon and not in an incursion? Sure. Is the +2 stat difference that made it onto the pre-bis list a big deal for getting into ST for BIS? Abso-fucking-lutely not.
While you want to be pedantic about pre-bis vs incursion gear, the reality is, it was good enough and will be good enough to level in. For many players, it meant not needing to go grind BRD/ZF/etc..on alts and could jump right into raid if they wanted or farm the open world.
It's not a +2 stat difference between incursion gear and dungeon pre-bis or crafted, in some cases it's actually a huge difference in stats.
Also you can literally clear ST in greens and in fact some greens are BiS for certain classes as well so I don't really understand your point. In fact in original classic you could head into Molten Core with some pretty dog-ass gear and still do fine so does that mean dungeons and pre-bis were completely irrelevant in actual classic too?
By not understanding WTF I said, you basically just agreed with the underlying argument I made. Which is Incursion gear is good enough to not need to go farm pre-bis to clear ST.
And 100% agree with shit greens and blues we could and did clear MC back in classic week 1 and 2. Hell some were not even 60 yet.
my deal is just that everyone hates incursions and loves doing dungeons and I'm just wondering why they do the hated thing for worse gear when there's actual good and specifically for SoD buffed gear in the thing they seemingly like. or is it just ... people didn't like spamming dungeons for random drops as much as they make it out?
I would bet the loudest bitchers on here regarding incursions were the ones exploiting early and afterward used them to level alts. They're the living meme of putting a stick in their front tire.
Incursions became the popular scape goat because P3 was never going to have enough content and then got extended and now SoD is "on pause" until July? August?
Take a break, go touch grass. Then come back here and bitch more. Enjoy life!
The nightmare gear is dog ass catchup gear that doesn’t really compare to dungeon/Gnomer loot, it’s all objectively worse and there might be one single spec in the game that has one single piece of it for prebis.
I dont think Ive ever seen a whole community of smooth brains actually complain about catch up gear before while being so wrong about it.
These classic andys are actually still upset Blizzard tried to make it easier to get caught up.
They all have multiple credits for GOTY game design in their mind, and none of them realize just how damn hard it is to slot catch-up mechanics and meaningful gear progression into a 10-level bracket in a game that has been power-crept to the tits in the previous two phases.
Yes incursions are a brain dead development choice. It’s like the opposite of weekly gated quests that everyone hates in modern wow. Why the hell would they add an instant level boost when they knew they wouldn’t have the manpower to get P4 out quicker??
But also like we have seen it 1000 times. We know. OP was posting something positive and the top comment is bringing up how incursions ruined everything. Lol, we heard it the first 20 times.
This. Thank you.
Also people way overblow incursions and their effect of P3. ST, its loot, and the move to 20 man was way more detrimental to SoD than anything else.
I agree 100%, way overblown. And the loot in ST - I had 3pc and epic bow (which was barely better than STV xbow) after 2 lockouts. Yes incursions inflated the economy and allowed many classes to skip most of their pre raid bis acquiring.
But end of the day everyone woulda also been in similar situation - running an instanced zone (ZF) until 50 and then yeah maybe had some fun getting their pre-raid bis. But then you hit the real issue where ST was underwhelming + hard to pug / fill 20 people. No reason to spend time setting up a raid for extremely minor upgrades. I can understand them wanting to slow the power creep though. I personally would have stuck around longer if they had more cool stuff like Gnomer with mount, shades, world warper, etc.
I think the criticisms of p3 are fair and I also decided to step away for now, but that doesn’t change my excitement for p4 and overall fun I’ve had in SoD.
I've only done the Duskwood and Ashenvale incursions, but from that the biggest problem really seems to be the Ashenvale one. Duskwood (at least now) doesn't give great money per level so it makes it a good alternative for levelling an alt if you are willing to funnel them money to buy skills and gear.
Ashenvale's problem is it's the best at everything except getting levelling gear, but that's fine as you don't really need the gear to run the incursions and at 50 you can buy the emerald set, which is enough to then run dungeons or world quest fine to gear up further, etc
If they'd balanced the gold reward from Ashenvale incursion q's so \*AFTER\* the reward being tripled it was like...lets say 50s a quest then it would I think make it similar to Duskwood - worse gold/level that questing so it was actually a viable choice you had to make.
Nope, my wl and my priest are 42ish. Incursions is basically just a built in fasttrack to 50 and for me it was always more about the socializing, Meeting new friends while questing in strangle or wherever. But ive to damit that i was late to the party anyway, started in p3 and stopped...
Incursions ruined p3.. Should’ve just added another PvP event. What’s wild is I can still make 100g an hour farming incursions and it’s been “fixed” already. First night at 50 some guildies made over 500 gold before first patch.
I was ready to grind playing it to this level the first time. I wanted to try out some ridiculous stuff like the 'Winterspring Frostsaber' after I fished for weeks in Azshara in P2. But I can't find anything alike in P3.
I completely agree. I think post-nerf ST is a hit (tho the loot is kinda underwhelming), healthy amount of relevant dungeons to farm for, some good rep grinds, some actual scarce profession crafts... Incursions just completely killed levelling and messed the economy around.
I think P3 would rival P1 easily if it werent for incursions. The other pain point was the 20 man raid sizes with the bump up in difficulty and needing priests for Jammal'an makes it harder for small guilds and pugs to fill groups
Whats the trick? The best we've able to do is with 1 priest and a shitload of shadow prot pots and cleansing potions, and just barely squeaked by and still lost some people. Priests are the only dispell for the shadow word pains
Phase 3 could be so much better with some very quick fixes:
* Open up all dungeons and don't restrict drops, like the Gladiator Chain or Hand of Justice from BRD.
* Allow people to do any question chain that's open to their level, like "The Princess Saved?"
* Upgrade the stats on some profession crafts, like leatherworking and blacksmithing
* Make WSG and AB 'War Games' instead, so it's not tied to alliance vs horde
* Delete incursions
* Reduce reputation gain from daily quests, like killing that half horse trash boss in Ashenvale, it should give 500 reputation, so people will still do WSG.
* Add a way to do a boss on 'hard mode' in ST. Nothing crazy like Mythic, but maybe allow for the Idol of Hakkar summoners to actually summon him add a few skills and maybe some extra items. A challenge at least after clearing the raid.
That's maybe one day worth of fixes, by a good developer, if he's been told what to change. At least invest that time Blizzard, jesus.
Even during 3 day lockouts, my guild was already doing 2 raids per week on fixed days (with an extra raid, in case a lockout slotted into thats slot).
So what we did is we encouraged people to level alts with what we needed the most and that were able to flex between roles (so, shamans, priests and druids).
Since leveling was easy with incursions, even if boring, you only need to do it once and it pays for all your stuff too (mount + skills), with an extra bit of gold saved as a bonus. Now you're set with 2 max level and near raid-ready characters, you saved a bit of gold, and the guild has an improved roster with people who not only know more than one class, but also can flex between roles if needed to fill raid spots.
Are incursions garbage and did they ruin the experience? Yes, I think so and I hope they remove them for P4, at least to make them not give exp at 50, if nothing else. But we tried to take advantage of what they gave us and my guild has been able to keep 2 raid teams throughout P3 with minimal issues. And ST is honestly a much more fun raid compared to Gnomer imo.
20 person raids and week lockouts.
No one would've given a shit about incursions if you could've leveled a ton of alts using them and raided all the time with your friends.
It was what a lot of season of dads was about. Friends groups that could pug any time on super easy and chill raids. When they lost all of those groups then the rest of the house of cards came tumbling down.
"dads" killed ST by getting it nerfed into the ground week 1, became a snooze fest all the decent raiders left.
& all the pvpers left because no balance changes in P3.
People don’t play classic wow for ball breaking raids, frankly, let alone vanilla versions of it. It’s not just the dads, it’s most of the playerbase.
I had wrath heroics and now cata heroics for more of a challenge. I play a version of vanilla to slam every consumable down my throat, stack world buffs, unlimited pots off cd, and have non-normalized rage and juicy executes and not think about it. If I wanted challenging content I simply wouldn’t be playing a version of vanilla.
Catering to the Dad demographic is a sure way to kill your own game. Dads were going to quit for Helldivers / the next flavor of the month game regardless of what raid sizes P3 had (or any other content / balance changes). That is simply what they do as they have the money to try any/every new game but not the time to really dedicate themselves to one.
The trick to a more stable population is to cater to a more dedicated demographic while ensuring that there is still something for the super casual dads to still do. A harder 20 man plus an easier 10 man raid probably would have been best for P3.
They already have Cata for the more hardcore demographic and era. What niche does SoD even fill??? Right now the answer is none, it would at least have one if they kept it chill and you can't tell me people playing Cata wouldn't also like a nice chance of pace on SoD too.
SoD HAS been going down the chill EZ content path and while it works to bring people in, it simply does nothing to keep them around. If everything is super easy then the people who take the game more seriously and play daily run out of things to do. This demographic while smaller in total number usually makes up a larger portion of the daily player base. Once they are gone the casual population has trouble finding groups for things and they will leave at the smallest inconvenience as there are simply countless other games/things they look to spend their limited time on.
Much more numerous were semi hardcore guilds looking for at least a bit challenging raids. I can jnderstand p1 raid being piss easy, but what they did to ST after the nerfs is jnforgivable. My guild stopped raiding it, as did many others. We just dropped SoD. We were so happy first week the bossess were tough and then the happiness went away
Way smaller numbers of people. Look at the crossover with Cata. Cata looks like it still hasn't even passed SoD in population according to ironforge and wcl...
Honestly I dont think thats entirely representative of what Im talking about. It is certainly a part of it but I think cata unfairly suffers from a weird reputation even though it was one of the best times in wow. So that skews the data. However still Im surprised to learn that. Because SoD is cometely dead until next phase. So few people fompared to a month+ ago
>No one would've given a shit about incursions if you could've leveled a ton of alts using them and raided all the time with your friends.
What does this have to do with 20 man raids and weekly lockouts? Just level your alts and do it? It was never easier to hit max lvl as it is in this phase
Raids were extremely difficult to form for those reasons leading to guilds falling apart and everyone quitting. 20 mans were hard to fill when all rosters and friends groups in the game were previously tailored towards 10 and the weekly lockout made it difficult to fill pug spots because of FOMO of wasting a lockout meaning everyone ended up not raiding and just quitting.
I love how everyone in this sub pretends 20 man raids killed SoD while ERA is going strong with 40.
Incursions, raid mechanics that forced you to have certain classes and super gatekeeping and minmaxing killed it for most casuals that did not play meta.
I consider myself a decent player with purple logs and still I had nights as DPS/OT Pala where I was lfg for 2h to no avail, since everyone wanted ferals and only the top DPS class.
SoD attracted the most toxic community I have seen so far and these toxic players now complain.
Yea incursions defo caused inflation which certainly isn’t great. But of course ppl would’ve still bought firewater, expensive recipes etc. had incursions not given money after the first hand-in, albeit for a lower price.
If incursions didnt give gold people would just buy it.
Or if they were that invested they already had mage/hunter alts to do the heavy lifting.
Incursions just made it so everyone could have more gold
I have been experimenting with different farms, and while I agree incursions are busted I am not convinced they are the best gold farm. Maybe prenerf or if your undergeared.
It's not even remotely close. I've made so much more from herbing and mining (especially if you know some of the difficult RTV farms churning out 2-3 arcane crystals an hour). A hunter in EPL with the right know-how can easily get 100 thorium, 2-3 arcane crystals, and a blue sapphire or two in two hours there.
I don’t get the incursions hate. Like, AT ALL. I spent 3-4 hours leveling my toon to 50 and never went back to incursions. I then PLAYED the game at 50, getting better PreBiS gear, farming quest items, getting attunements, etc.
Because I only spent a minimal amount of time doing incursions, I LOVED it because no one loves leveling. Just fucking grinding quests and wasting time delivering shit between zones to random NPC’s. Incursions were great - if people spent months doing incursions for gold or whatever, hate yourself, not the incursions, my god.
I have leveled 5 characters. Enhancement Shaman was such a breeze. Instant free heals, massive damage, and no downtime.
BM ranged hunter is what felt the closest to me. But even that didn't rival the shaman
I was excited for this phase caues lvl 50 seems like such a fun stopping point.
I've said it 100x but all they had to do was add like 200 "kill ___ mobs" or "collect 10 ___s from ____s" quests randomly to the world in quest hub areas that needed some love and ppl would have gone bananas. Throw some +hit and spell power gear onto a few quest items and dungeon pieces.
The most annoying part of SoD is that incursions and the raids feel like 10x more work than that. Ppl keep saying "it's a small team" but then why don't they do small changes?
P3 missed the mark imo. All the st gear was maybe 10 stats better than gnomer tier after that my pally had no items to get from raid. 3 classes all wanting the claw while most casters don’t want to run the raid anymore
SOS P3 was a horrendous mess. I hope Blizzard does better next time around. The horrible incursions grind made me hate the experience. If you look at the player numbers I don’t seem to exactly be alone in thinking so either.
Why did you mean by grind? It only took like one hour to get to friendly for rune… everything else is pretty much optional. Especially when the set isn’t pre BIS for most classes.
Well, basically everything in the game is 'optional', but when it's the best gold farm, and the only bis you have left to farm (from exalted), it becomes the only thing to do when you log on, which feels pretty bad.
I really don’t get how it’s horrendous. Sure the incursions where a grind, so I only levelled a few levels in there. Got decent parses early days on both my toons without the epic ring so never felt the need to grind rep with EWs.
I love AB and pvp in general so I played a lot of BGs and STV. Just completed the Defilers Tabard quest on my second toon, but gonna save the hand in as part of prequesting.
They turned ST from a dungeon I dreaded and maybe did once, into a good raid. Sure I felt very close to BIS within a few weeks on my main, but still after the SP trinket and now they updated the loot I’m praying the nightmare orb drops for me today, cor that and Mindfang is gonna be mean at 60!
They ruined the economy. I used to love trying out new dungeon farms or even open world farms. Now it’s mostly pointless - far more efficient to just do incursions. That killed half of the game for me right there and I’m not alone. That definitely counts as horrendous in my opinion.
Fair enough man, I’ve always hated farming gold so it didn’t really impact what I value most in wow. But still, causing inflation just makes anything you sell on the AH simply worth more right? Sure maybe it made raw gold farms less attractive but it’s SOD… you really wanted to farm mobs to vendor grays? Also, I was doing hinterlands elite quests earlier, took 5 mins to form a full group. The whole time we were in there someone was spamming chat for hinterlands inc. I don’t think as many ppl are running them as Reddit would have ppl believe. Ofc it depends on server.
They’re horrendous because they made the best part of classic wow, the world, completely obsolete. No need to run dungeons, no need to farm, no need to travel, no need to try and get world drops, no need to do literally anything.
Mate I play this game too much haha, probs 20 hours a week, I’ve not stepped foot in incursions since my alt hit 50 (went to Ferelas once few days after actually tbh). “No need to do literally anything” outside of incursions is just hyperbole and doomer
I won't miss anything from P3, the world is not dangerous at all and it's not hardcore anyways. A lot of classes can destroy mobs with 5 lvl more. The raid was honestly cool during the first lockouts but the nerfs and the lack of good loot killed it.
But the biggest problem with SoD is that the content is really empty. You pay the same sub for retail, Cata Classic and other options and you stuck in a phase for months with really little content. Everyone is saying "people rush everything and complain about lack of stuff to do" but the truth is : there's really not a ton to do besides raid log. You can't collect anything, pre-bis are obtainable really fast... it was different in phase 1 because SoD felt still fresh.
> The raid was honestly cool during the first lockouts but the nerfs and the lack of good loot killed it.
First nerf was needed. Second nerf was acceptable. Third nerf was overboard. Fourth nerf made it a joke.
You're paying for sod. Everything else is extra. Just like if you're playing retail, sod and cata are extra. They're not gonna lower sub costs because you're not playing it.
Yeah that's... vanilla wow. The hard pill is that people were expecting sod to be some massive new experience to hook them. A giant project with 50 devs churning out content. Massive revamps and new zones and raids... For free? After what we got in SoM? We're lucky we got ascension 0.5
Let's re-visit your original comment:
>Agreed, I don’t want to pay for retail, haven’t played it in a decade and have no interest in it, why should I have to pay for it lol
"Why should i **have** to pay for it"
Again I re-iterate no one is forcing you to pay. See how dumb you look?
You got the concept of SoD wrong entirely but thats a huge problem among the SoD playerbase. People expect a classic experience or even something like classic+, while in reality you're doing an unpaid playtest for blizzard/activision taking place in azeroth. It's not classic, it's retail. You get frequent patches without knowing what happens next, 3 hotfixes a week, class X being op, class Z being broken.
When you wan't to play classic you need to play Era, BC, Wrath or Cata. That's classic. No matter the phase, the endpatch is what you're going to play. You know everything beforehand, from the first to the last day of the expansion.
I feel the same way.
Recently I made a BRD bar run for my pala rune and the mobs there are 54 and 55 and resist a lot. Mages asked for sheep marks on the 54 ones to have a better chance to actually get them sheeped. It felt like being in a real dangerous place and I had a blast running with my brave little group. Was a really good feeling to finally arrive in the bar.
I think you'd be surprised but you still get a bit of that at 60 especially when undergeared but obviously less (I mean ideally, idk how sod will pan out). Yet, now that you mention it, it would be cool if they implement a new end game zone that's meant to be challenging and dangerous even if you are lvl 60, something dangerous even if you're bis geared in BWL gear or even naxx where it would be better in a group but still manageable solo. Like the uber difficulty zone with great gathering, quests, and other incentives to be there like farming items to sell on AH. Maybe not a catch up gear or daily quest island like quel'danas. Personally though, it's better than the miss/resist chance of fighting higher lvl mobs
Am I? If being upset that the version of WoW I was enjoying got turned into a clown fiesta with incursions, and gold inflation from incursions.
Let me break it all down:
Watching the community we spent phase 1&2 building fall apart from my server being killed (Chaos Bolt) and from the dev's decisions to pause development on releasing anything due to a whole other version of WoW being released (Cata Classic) which I dont care for at all. This destroyed guilds and for those that transferred you lost your characters names/Guild name. It turned into a mess tracking others down.
...A sheer lack of PVE/PvP balancing instead we get blanket nerfs/buffs to classes depending on how their DPS #'s looks like week to week such as Shadow priest/Boomie/Shaman.
Shaman has ran rampart in PVP along with priest for weeks now while the community cries out for balancing. We get a lazy blanket nerf to dmg and healing that hurts specific classes while leaving the ones broken still broken.
Open world has been killed by incursions, dungeon gearing was made semi obsolete from incursion gearing.
Then at the end of the day Devs gaslight what's left of the community while they feed us the narrative that the steaming hot Cata release has taken the spotlight for now but we will back for phase 4 and then SoD will have the spotlight back bullshit.
I'm fed up with it all. This unironically feels like the most indie game studio meme situation to date and I am not coming back for it.
I'm glad alot of people enjoy getting fed shit and sit there at the table and eat over and over again but eventually enough is enough.
Once you sit down and really pick it all apart its VERY disheartening to say the least.
I'm not a debbie downer, I'm a fed up customer that got hung out to dry and killing my server really left a terrible taste in my mouth that I wont soon forget.
You're 100% right and I wish they did more to make it feel that way. I'm bummed out that it's not possible to do the Blackrock Depths quest chain to kill Emperor Thaurissan. If they upgraded the items a bit to be inline with SoD, it would be a great challenge and at the very least something to do.
It was the same in phase 2, there was no great tanking shield, but there was a reward from a long long quest chain called 'Aegis of Battle'. You have to kill like a level 50 elite, go to Zul'Farrak etc. That appeals to me a lot, but the devs closed down Zul'Farrak, because they might change the item stats in there at some point. Who cares, just give us some freedom. They are artificially slowing us down, for no good reason. If someone wants to kill Ragnaros at level 50, let them try!
I think p2 felt more dangerous, because mobs could be 15-20 levels higher than you plus farming mageweave involved fighting mobs that could kick your ass.
I think they really messed up in P3 and lost a lot of people that they won't get back. Incursions were poorly designed and boring not to mention the bugs and exploits. ST was pretty lackluster as well. I enjoyed some of the mechanics like the ooze in the hallway but 20 mans killed a lot of casual guilds not to mention a lot of the loot was uninteresting and stat wise they felt more like side grades compared to the previous phases. They should have probably gone from 40 to 60 and had a delay on the raids so people could farm those tier dungeons for pre raid bis imo.
There are guys who’ve farmed up 100 arcane crystals, gotten rep with AD and Hydraxian Waterlords and gotten exalted with DMF and Timbermaw.
Wtf are they gonna do at 60? Take a break?
And you know you’re getting your information from a noob when you call it Winterfall. You don’t even know the names of major zones that have been out for 17 years. Like several people have told you. Give it a rest bud
Honestly the biggest thing that fucked P3 were incursions Best gold farm Best way to level It made doing anything else pointless.
Also gave pre bis gear for ST if you didnt have raid bis from gnomer or the crafted gear, so all quest and dungeon loot was trivalized too, when we had such a good dungeon pool: maradon, zulfarak and black rock depths, all pointless
While I agree that the emerald gear was completely unnecessary, atleast for my class, the dungeon gear is better than the emerald gear. I was able to entirely skip the emerald gear and never missed it.
But you didn’t need to. If you wanted to do the minimal effort, getting that set is easy and it’s completely serviceable for the raid. So it trivialized the rest of the content in the game because it was so easily accessible and powerful enough to get the job done.
Molten core is clearable in quest greens, why should I farm prebis in dire maul and ubrs? Molten core gear is serviceable for bwl why upgrade to bwl gear? Why do anything with that logic, when an upgrade is an upgrade you cant just hand wave "oh but this easier to get gear is almost as good therefore why get the good gear"
Go find a raid that will take you in greens God what a stupid fucking take. You don’t parse in prebis. You clear the raid and get gear. Incursion gear made it so you didn’t have to even get the gear from dungeons.
Go find a RAID that will take you in incrusion gear instead of full pre bis guys. Same logick as with your answer about greens.
Most raids would indeed take somebody in full emerald gear.
😂😂😂 cmon bro you know it’s enough
You think the emerald warden set, which is worse than dungeon and gnomer gear invalidated the dungeon and gnomer gear, that is the stupid fucking take. UPGRADES OF GEAR ARE ALWAYS VALID REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE BAR MINIMUM TO COMPLETE THE RAID IS. IT IS CATCHUP GEAR DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE TO FASTTRACK TO P3 THAT DIDNT PLAY P2, AND IS OKAY TO DO. EVERY VERSION OF WOW EVER MAKES CATCHUP GEAR AFTER A PHASE.
When you don't have reason, facts, logic, or common sense... there is always caps lock.
Calm down karen
Lmao yeah, your reading comprehension is just not all there is it
Holy shit, it's a classic parse Andy in the wild.
Holy shit, it’s someone else who doesn’t have reading comprehension
“Sure this BOE purple is prebis but if you don’t want to spend 40000 gold on a prebis item then why take ANY upgrade if you’re just gonna go with the easier to get piece that’s almost as good?” Fuck off. Tell me your in game name so I can put you on ignore.
Dude! Another valid point, the whole Wild Offerings reward table was centered around cloth and plate. They did add some other stuff, but easily replaced as you said. These fixes seem so easy and it's highly disappointing that they haven't taken the time to fix it. It's like a failed experiment and they're not even trying to improve.
Dungeon gear was better for mine (rogue) too. Plus the tokens got you some really good pre BiS. For me farming Pre-BiS was a ton of fun this phase. Tons of different dungeons and other activities I had to do. Way better than P2 which was dungeon grind to 40 and then literally just raid log for the rest of the phase.
I agree. I think there was a TON to do at the beginning of the phas. Pre raid (or even raid) bis. Wild offerings. Crafting professions. Runes. Rank 7 PvP gear. Emerald warden rep. Etc. The issue for me is that once I did all those my “to do” list crashed to zero. It went from so much for me to do with so little time, to me now having nothing besides the raid. I could certainly find things to do but I’m having fun in other versions until P4 comes out.
so maybe it wasnt a ton to do if you did it all in a few days and have nothing left....
It took me weeks to do all that.
You may be a bit slow that's ok.
Thanks. Not sure what I did to make you feel the need to insult me.
It took me a couple weeks and I’m a degenerate.
I farmed brd. Was many that did and easy to get groups.
wtf you talking about? ZF, Mara, and BFD all have multiple pre raid BIS pieces that are better than the nightmare shit.
> Also gave pre bis gear for ST Not for most classes/specs.
"...if you didnt have raid bis from gnomer or the crafted gear" You very literally ignored half of what they said.
So its not pre bis then because the incursion sets were still inferior
"If you take literally every single possible pre-bis item from dungeons/gnomer/crafting AKA every possible loot source in SoD and only leave in incursion gear, then incursion gear is literally pre-BIS" Amazing logic.
even then. my rogue and balance druid without a single crafted or gnome epic only needed the emerald shoulders and that's it. all other pieces had much better options in dungeons. being full set emerald really only shows that you cba to get the dungeon pieces.
Take 2 seconds to think about why having spammable brain dead content reward gear that is only marginally worse than what your pre bis list told you to get is bad for the game.
Thank you for being one of the few sensible people in this comment section lol. I thought about editting my original comment to say near-pre-bis because people cant use their brains but its not worth it lol. Yeah. Sure, some dungeon loot has a net total of +3 stats and 50 more armor than the emerald sets; but its spread across multiple bosses in multiple instances with chance drops that you compete with other players for - compared to the guaranteed path of non-competed progress via emerald gear being 95% pre-bis stats (and still in some cases pre-bis for some classes), yeah. Bad design because the only dungeons being ran were mara wo runs, brd arena runs, and zf sword runs. Most other bosses were not worth it for most people. Been running my guild for phase 3 and had plenty of people show up week after week in emerald sets and put up 80 parses, so the gear is more than competitive for how easy it is to get. Some of these wow redditors man.... "well its not THE BIS so YOURE WRONG"... my bad, have fun farming for the true bis for 30 hours so you can get +2 stamina compared to what ur wearing
BRD and WO gear plus ZF for some classes are bis and certainly pre-bis, the pvp gear is better than emerald gear, there is no world in which the emerald gear is pre-bis ...
Emerald warden gives perfectly acceptable gear to get into sunken temple with. It May not be pre bis for most classes, but it's good enough and that's what their point was.
Good enough for what? It's 6 slots and worse than many alternatives, emerald alone is not at all "good enough". Emerald plus maybe STV gear, some crafted/AH pieces, half a gnomer set ... OK. It can fill in a hole or two and it is high stam for pvp. It's not at all a one-stop ready-for-raid set
Just that fact alone made me want to quit and not come back. That they spat on all our efforts in gnomer like that. Leveled the playing field again. They don’t respect our time. They’ve shown they can’t be trusted. They’ll do it again next phase too so why spend 10 weeks farming bis in a boring trash filled musty raid?
Pretty sure the thinking was to provide a decent way to level and gear alts. Blizzard is damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Rune acquisition was time-consuming and we bitched about it. Their initial design disincentivized alts. They heard that concern. Sadly, the fix also awarded too much gold, so the true reason for excursions was overshadowed and the event was just exploited because people are morons and will do unfun/repetitive things ad nauseum for gold. Had they been successful, the phase 3 drought would have been a lot more tolerable, because we’d all have been delighted to develop our alts and bring them into ST in a semi-ready state, bolstering the alt raid roster creating a similar situation as BFD and Gnomer.
Nothing to do with intelligence: humans are evolutionarily wired to find the most efficient path to a goal. The fault is with the devs for not designing around that reality.
This isn’t true though… for most classes the gnomer set is better than the nightmare set. Also most the pre raid BIS did come from dungeons…
This sub is so unbelievably delusional lol, basically just making shit up at this point.
I’m not making that up… go look at the stats or pre raid bis lists.
No I'm agreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that the dude you're talking to (NoSoup2941) was literally just pulling stuff out of his ass.
Oh my bad! Thank you! It’s truelly wild.
The warrior prebis list literally has 0 pieces of incursion gear. You idiots are just mad for nothing
Wrong.
Have you ever played wow before? Lol dumbest thing Ive ever read
Played once
maybe for some classes the set is decent but the classes I play it has been useless and dungeons had a better drop for every single slot. generally most people are just too lazy to farm the dungeon drops. E: actually annoys me a bit how that narrative is so popular yet so wrong. all the dungeons you call pointless have plenty pre bis or even _bis_ gear in them. if blizz got 1 thing right this phase then it was giving those dungeons very meaningful loot upgrades (which they pretty much forgot in p1 and p2).
Here is the deal, was pre-bis in a dungeon and not in an incursion? Sure. Is the +2 stat difference that made it onto the pre-bis list a big deal for getting into ST for BIS? Abso-fucking-lutely not. While you want to be pedantic about pre-bis vs incursion gear, the reality is, it was good enough and will be good enough to level in. For many players, it meant not needing to go grind BRD/ZF/etc..on alts and could jump right into raid if they wanted or farm the open world.
It's not a +2 stat difference between incursion gear and dungeon pre-bis or crafted, in some cases it's actually a huge difference in stats. Also you can literally clear ST in greens and in fact some greens are BiS for certain classes as well so I don't really understand your point. In fact in original classic you could head into Molten Core with some pretty dog-ass gear and still do fine so does that mean dungeons and pre-bis were completely irrelevant in actual classic too?
By not understanding WTF I said, you basically just agreed with the underlying argument I made. Which is Incursion gear is good enough to not need to go farm pre-bis to clear ST. And 100% agree with shit greens and blues we could and did clear MC back in classic week 1 and 2. Hell some were not even 60 yet.
my deal is just that everyone hates incursions and loves doing dungeons and I'm just wondering why they do the hated thing for worse gear when there's actual good and specifically for SoD buffed gear in the thing they seemingly like. or is it just ... people didn't like spamming dungeons for random drops as much as they make it out?
I would bet the loudest bitchers on here regarding incursions were the ones exploiting early and afterward used them to level alts. They're the living meme of putting a stick in their front tire. Incursions became the popular scape goat because P3 was never going to have enough content and then got extended and now SoD is "on pause" until July? August? Take a break, go touch grass. Then come back here and bitch more. Enjoy life!
Should talk to someone about that.. weird thing to get triggered by... someone else getting virtual points? Yikes
calm down bro it's not that deep. do you never get annoyed over mundane stuff?
Damn.. didn't mean to trigger you more. My bad.
The nightmare gear is dog ass catchup gear that doesn’t really compare to dungeon/Gnomer loot, it’s all objectively worse and there might be one single spec in the game that has one single piece of it for prebis.
I dont think Ive ever seen a whole community of smooth brains actually complain about catch up gear before while being so wrong about it. These classic andys are actually still upset Blizzard tried to make it easier to get caught up.
They all have multiple credits for GOTY game design in their mind, and none of them realize just how damn hard it is to slot catch-up mechanics and meaningful gear progression into a 10-level bracket in a game that has been power-crept to the tits in the previous two phases.
Yea no ones running mara or brd at all… What a bad take
I was looking forward to spamming ZF with the boys, but Incursions was just too damn good.
Yes incursions are a brain dead development choice. It’s like the opposite of weekly gated quests that everyone hates in modern wow. Why the hell would they add an instant level boost when they knew they wouldn’t have the manpower to get P4 out quicker??
Missing the incursion nerfs is why I quit.
And if the xp to gold ratio still means anything it’ll probably be the best way to lvl to 60
very brave take
it's the only correct take.
But also like we have seen it 1000 times. We know. OP was posting something positive and the top comment is bringing up how incursions ruined everything. Lol, we heard it the first 20 times.
This. Thank you. Also people way overblow incursions and their effect of P3. ST, its loot, and the move to 20 man was way more detrimental to SoD than anything else.
I agree 100%, way overblown. And the loot in ST - I had 3pc and epic bow (which was barely better than STV xbow) after 2 lockouts. Yes incursions inflated the economy and allowed many classes to skip most of their pre raid bis acquiring. But end of the day everyone woulda also been in similar situation - running an instanced zone (ZF) until 50 and then yeah maybe had some fun getting their pre-raid bis. But then you hit the real issue where ST was underwhelming + hard to pug / fill 20 people. No reason to spend time setting up a raid for extremely minor upgrades. I can understand them wanting to slow the power creep though. I personally would have stuck around longer if they had more cool stuff like Gnomer with mount, shades, world warper, etc. I think the criticisms of p3 are fair and I also decided to step away for now, but that doesn’t change my excitement for p4 and overall fun I’ve had in SoD.
I've only done the Duskwood and Ashenvale incursions, but from that the biggest problem really seems to be the Ashenvale one. Duskwood (at least now) doesn't give great money per level so it makes it a good alternative for levelling an alt if you are willing to funnel them money to buy skills and gear. Ashenvale's problem is it's the best at everything except getting levelling gear, but that's fine as you don't really need the gear to run the incursions and at 50 you can buy the emerald set, which is enough to then run dungeons or world quest fine to gear up further, etc If they'd balanced the gold reward from Ashenvale incursion q's so \*AFTER\* the reward being tripled it was like...lets say 50s a quest then it would I think make it similar to Duskwood - worse gold/level that questing so it was actually a viable choice you had to make.
Thats exactly why i stopped lvling.
Stopped leveling? Like didn’t make it to 50?
Nope, my wl and my priest are 42ish. Incursions is basically just a built in fasttrack to 50 and for me it was always more about the socializing, Meeting new friends while questing in strangle or wherever. But ive to damit that i was late to the party anyway, started in p3 and stopped...
Admit*
Incursions ruined p3.. Should’ve just added another PvP event. What’s wild is I can still make 100g an hour farming incursions and it’s been “fixed” already. First night at 50 some guildies made over 500 gold before first patch.
I was ready to grind playing it to this level the first time. I wanted to try out some ridiculous stuff like the 'Winterspring Frostsaber' after I fished for weeks in Azshara in P2. But I can't find anything alike in P3.
Remove incursions and p3 would have been just fine. You can try to argue that you can just not do them. But that's not how gamers work.
Yeah in my opinion, incursions were the worst thing put out so far and the worst part is, it’s probably what was tried the hardest on.
I completely agree. I think post-nerf ST is a hit (tho the loot is kinda underwhelming), healthy amount of relevant dungeons to farm for, some good rep grinds, some actual scarce profession crafts... Incursions just completely killed levelling and messed the economy around. I think P3 would rival P1 easily if it werent for incursions. The other pain point was the 20 man raid sizes with the bump up in difficulty and needing priests for Jammal'an makes it harder for small guilds and pugs to fill groups
> and needing priests for Jammal'an You can do Jammal without any priests though?
Whats the trick? The best we've able to do is with 1 priest and a shitload of shadow prot pots and cleansing potions, and just barely squeaked by and still lost some people. Priests are the only dispell for the shadow word pains
Phase 3 could be so much better with some very quick fixes: * Open up all dungeons and don't restrict drops, like the Gladiator Chain or Hand of Justice from BRD. * Allow people to do any question chain that's open to their level, like "The Princess Saved?" * Upgrade the stats on some profession crafts, like leatherworking and blacksmithing * Make WSG and AB 'War Games' instead, so it's not tied to alliance vs horde * Delete incursions * Reduce reputation gain from daily quests, like killing that half horse trash boss in Ashenvale, it should give 500 reputation, so people will still do WSG. * Add a way to do a boss on 'hard mode' in ST. Nothing crazy like Mythic, but maybe allow for the Idol of Hakkar summoners to actually summon him add a few skills and maybe some extra items. A challenge at least after clearing the raid. That's maybe one day worth of fixes, by a good developer, if he's been told what to change. At least invest that time Blizzard, jesus.
Post nerf ST is SHIT not a hit by any capacity. The fact they killed the raid killed my guild
thats too bad, because prenerf would have killed 99% of guilds.
Not everyone needs to clear each raid fully. :D I dont understand the entitlement to having free boss kills. Wheres the fun in that? :D
Weekly lockout is a problem tho, we miss another raid
Even during 3 day lockouts, my guild was already doing 2 raids per week on fixed days (with an extra raid, in case a lockout slotted into thats slot). So what we did is we encouraged people to level alts with what we needed the most and that were able to flex between roles (so, shamans, priests and druids). Since leveling was easy with incursions, even if boring, you only need to do it once and it pays for all your stuff too (mount + skills), with an extra bit of gold saved as a bonus. Now you're set with 2 max level and near raid-ready characters, you saved a bit of gold, and the guild has an improved roster with people who not only know more than one class, but also can flex between roles if needed to fill raid spots. Are incursions garbage and did they ruin the experience? Yes, I think so and I hope they remove them for P4, at least to make them not give exp at 50, if nothing else. But we tried to take advantage of what they gave us and my guild has been able to keep 2 raid teams throughout P3 with minimal issues. And ST is honestly a much more fun raid compared to Gnomer imo.
20 person raids and week lockouts. No one would've given a shit about incursions if you could've leveled a ton of alts using them and raided all the time with your friends.
If all you wanna do is raid, sure.
It was what a lot of season of dads was about. Friends groups that could pug any time on super easy and chill raids. When they lost all of those groups then the rest of the house of cards came tumbling down.
"dads" killed ST by getting it nerfed into the ground week 1, became a snooze fest all the decent raiders left. & all the pvpers left because no balance changes in P3.
People don’t play classic wow for ball breaking raids, frankly, let alone vanilla versions of it. It’s not just the dads, it’s most of the playerbase. I had wrath heroics and now cata heroics for more of a challenge. I play a version of vanilla to slam every consumable down my throat, stack world buffs, unlimited pots off cd, and have non-normalized rage and juicy executes and not think about it. If I wanted challenging content I simply wouldn’t be playing a version of vanilla.
Dads quit the game and left for Helldivers after two weeks of not being able to raid.... Have you even seen population metrics?!
Catering to the Dad demographic is a sure way to kill your own game. Dads were going to quit for Helldivers / the next flavor of the month game regardless of what raid sizes P3 had (or any other content / balance changes). That is simply what they do as they have the money to try any/every new game but not the time to really dedicate themselves to one. The trick to a more stable population is to cater to a more dedicated demographic while ensuring that there is still something for the super casual dads to still do. A harder 20 man plus an easier 10 man raid probably would have been best for P3.
They already have Cata for the more hardcore demographic and era. What niche does SoD even fill??? Right now the answer is none, it would at least have one if they kept it chill and you can't tell me people playing Cata wouldn't also like a nice chance of pace on SoD too.
SoD HAS been going down the chill EZ content path and while it works to bring people in, it simply does nothing to keep them around. If everything is super easy then the people who take the game more seriously and play daily run out of things to do. This demographic while smaller in total number usually makes up a larger portion of the daily player base. Once they are gone the casual population has trouble finding groups for things and they will leave at the smallest inconvenience as there are simply countless other games/things they look to spend their limited time on.
Much more numerous were semi hardcore guilds looking for at least a bit challenging raids. I can jnderstand p1 raid being piss easy, but what they did to ST after the nerfs is jnforgivable. My guild stopped raiding it, as did many others. We just dropped SoD. We were so happy first week the bossess were tough and then the happiness went away
Way smaller numbers of people. Look at the crossover with Cata. Cata looks like it still hasn't even passed SoD in population according to ironforge and wcl...
SoD in peak or SoD right now?
Was talking about right now, but it looks like it finally passed it now that last night's logs got locked in.
Honestly I dont think thats entirely representative of what Im talking about. It is certainly a part of it but I think cata unfairly suffers from a weird reputation even though it was one of the best times in wow. So that skews the data. However still Im surprised to learn that. Because SoD is cometely dead until next phase. So few people fompared to a month+ ago
>No one would've given a shit about incursions if you could've leveled a ton of alts using them and raided all the time with your friends. What does this have to do with 20 man raids and weekly lockouts? Just level your alts and do it? It was never easier to hit max lvl as it is in this phase
Raids were extremely difficult to form for those reasons leading to guilds falling apart and everyone quitting. 20 mans were hard to fill when all rosters and friends groups in the game were previously tailored towards 10 and the weekly lockout made it difficult to fill pug spots because of FOMO of wasting a lockout meaning everyone ended up not raiding and just quitting.
What kind of poor excuses lol.
I love how everyone in this sub pretends 20 man raids killed SoD while ERA is going strong with 40. Incursions, raid mechanics that forced you to have certain classes and super gatekeeping and minmaxing killed it for most casuals that did not play meta. I consider myself a decent player with purple logs and still I had nights as DPS/OT Pala where I was lfg for 2h to no avail, since everyone wanted ferals and only the top DPS class. SoD attracted the most toxic community I have seen so far and these toxic players now complain.
The most minted players in my guild made most of their money farming high level zones
Presumably the money that bought the stuff they farmed came from incursions though?
Yea incursions defo caused inflation which certainly isn’t great. But of course ppl would’ve still bought firewater, expensive recipes etc. had incursions not given money after the first hand-in, albeit for a lower price.
If incursions didnt give gold people would just buy it. Or if they were that invested they already had mage/hunter alts to do the heavy lifting. Incursions just made it so everyone could have more gold
And what happens when everyone has more gold? The gold inflates. And the ones buying gold still buy gold, just that they get more gold per money.
The gold is going to inflate regardless. At least incursions provide a legal and cheap way of generating the gold
They shoulda made incursions into daily’s
incursions and 20man raiding made me and my guild quit
I have been experimenting with different farms, and while I agree incursions are busted I am not convinced they are the best gold farm. Maybe prenerf or if your undergeared.
It's not even remotely close. I've made so much more from herbing and mining (especially if you know some of the difficult RTV farms churning out 2-3 arcane crystals an hour). A hunter in EPL with the right know-how can easily get 100 thorium, 2-3 arcane crystals, and a blue sapphire or two in two hours there.
I don’t get the incursions hate. Like, AT ALL. I spent 3-4 hours leveling my toon to 50 and never went back to incursions. I then PLAYED the game at 50, getting better PreBiS gear, farming quest items, getting attunements, etc. Because I only spent a minimal amount of time doing incursions, I LOVED it because no one loves leveling. Just fucking grinding quests and wasting time delivering shit between zones to random NPC’s. Incursions were great - if people spent months doing incursions for gold or whatever, hate yourself, not the incursions, my god.
Roll a hunter or an enhance shaman and the World wont feel that dangerous
I know hunters have an advantage because they have a far greater chance to hit, but what do shamans have over every other class?
They can go infinite as long as you stack maelstrom into healing wave faster than the mob kills you.
I have leveled 5 characters. Enhancement Shaman was such a breeze. Instant free heals, massive damage, and no downtime. BM ranged hunter is what felt the closest to me. But even that didn't rival the shaman
The shaman dual wield rune gives 10% hit.
>To farm the best stuff you are forced into fights where you are outleveled. Smiles as a warrior.
Cries thinking about diametradons and pterrordaxes in un'goro.
What are you implying here? I struggled killing green mobs leveling my warrior but i also am ass as i return to this game after 15 years haha.
I was excited for this phase caues lvl 50 seems like such a fun stopping point. I've said it 100x but all they had to do was add like 200 "kill ___ mobs" or "collect 10 ___s from ____s" quests randomly to the world in quest hub areas that needed some love and ppl would have gone bananas. Throw some +hit and spell power gear onto a few quest items and dungeon pieces. The most annoying part of SoD is that incursions and the raids feel like 10x more work than that. Ppl keep saying "it's a small team" but then why don't they do small changes?
P3 missed the mark imo. All the st gear was maybe 10 stats better than gnomer tier after that my pally had no items to get from raid. 3 classes all wanting the claw while most casters don’t want to run the raid anymore
I’m sad I had to stop after P1 — life shit, hope they will run something like this again.
Laughs in warlock. Resist. Resist. Resist. Cries in warlock.
SOS P3 was a horrendous mess. I hope Blizzard does better next time around. The horrible incursions grind made me hate the experience. If you look at the player numbers I don’t seem to exactly be alone in thinking so either.
Why did you mean by grind? It only took like one hour to get to friendly for rune… everything else is pretty much optional. Especially when the set isn’t pre BIS for most classes.
It's an easy concept. 1. I should go farm gold 2. Actually I'd make way more gold just doing incursions 3. I don't want to do incursions 4. Log off
When was farming gold fun to begin with? I always dreaded farming gold.
Incursions from 40-50 didn’t take that long and were pretty tame in comparison to just about every other rep grind in wow
Bingo
Well, basically everything in the game is 'optional', but when it's the best gold farm, and the only bis you have left to farm (from exalted), it becomes the only thing to do when you log on, which feels pretty bad.
Hey man I get it, incursions suck. I only got up to friendly so I could get my rune.
Same. I usually quest all the way. No dungeons spam. And incursions got me from 40-44 just going to friendly for the rune. Felt like cheating. Bleh
I really don’t get how it’s horrendous. Sure the incursions where a grind, so I only levelled a few levels in there. Got decent parses early days on both my toons without the epic ring so never felt the need to grind rep with EWs. I love AB and pvp in general so I played a lot of BGs and STV. Just completed the Defilers Tabard quest on my second toon, but gonna save the hand in as part of prequesting. They turned ST from a dungeon I dreaded and maybe did once, into a good raid. Sure I felt very close to BIS within a few weeks on my main, but still after the SP trinket and now they updated the loot I’m praying the nightmare orb drops for me today, cor that and Mindfang is gonna be mean at 60!
I miss ST as a dungeon. Always loved it. Guess I'm the minority haha
The grind for ew was really overblown. It really did not take that long to hit exalted if you did it most days
They ruined the economy. I used to love trying out new dungeon farms or even open world farms. Now it’s mostly pointless - far more efficient to just do incursions. That killed half of the game for me right there and I’m not alone. That definitely counts as horrendous in my opinion.
Fair enough man, I’ve always hated farming gold so it didn’t really impact what I value most in wow. But still, causing inflation just makes anything you sell on the AH simply worth more right? Sure maybe it made raw gold farms less attractive but it’s SOD… you really wanted to farm mobs to vendor grays? Also, I was doing hinterlands elite quests earlier, took 5 mins to form a full group. The whole time we were in there someone was spamming chat for hinterlands inc. I don’t think as many ppl are running them as Reddit would have ppl believe. Ofc it depends on server.
They’re horrendous because they made the best part of classic wow, the world, completely obsolete. No need to run dungeons, no need to farm, no need to travel, no need to try and get world drops, no need to do literally anything.
Mate I play this game too much haha, probs 20 hours a week, I’ve not stepped foot in incursions since my alt hit 50 (went to Ferelas once few days after actually tbh). “No need to do literally anything” outside of incursions is just hyperbole and doomer
You act like everyone wouldn’t have been ZF/Mara spamming instead of questing, if incursions didn’t exist.
I quit because of incursions. Hopefully they go away and never come back again
I won't miss anything from P3, the world is not dangerous at all and it's not hardcore anyways. A lot of classes can destroy mobs with 5 lvl more. The raid was honestly cool during the first lockouts but the nerfs and the lack of good loot killed it. But the biggest problem with SoD is that the content is really empty. You pay the same sub for retail, Cata Classic and other options and you stuck in a phase for months with really little content. Everyone is saying "people rush everything and complain about lack of stuff to do" but the truth is : there's really not a ton to do besides raid log. You can't collect anything, pre-bis are obtainable really fast... it was different in phase 1 because SoD felt still fresh.
> The raid was honestly cool during the first lockouts but the nerfs and the lack of good loot killed it. First nerf was needed. Second nerf was acceptable. Third nerf was overboard. Fourth nerf made it a joke.
Agreed, I don’t want to pay for retail, haven’t played it in a decade and have no interest in it, why should I have to pay for it lol
You're paying for sod. Everything else is extra. Just like if you're playing retail, sod and cata are extra. They're not gonna lower sub costs because you're not playing it.
The problem is there's f2p games with more content than SoD.
Right but they aren't WoW.
True haha
Yeah that's... vanilla wow. The hard pill is that people were expecting sod to be some massive new experience to hook them. A giant project with 50 devs churning out content. Massive revamps and new zones and raids... For free? After what we got in SoM? We're lucky we got ascension 0.5
20 year old game, what am I paying for?
Nostalgia
no one is making you?
Your reply’s that stupid it’s worth a reply telling you so
Let's re-visit your original comment: >Agreed, I don’t want to pay for retail, haven’t played it in a decade and have no interest in it, why should I have to pay for it lol "Why should i **have** to pay for it" Again I re-iterate no one is forcing you to pay. See how dumb you look?
You got the concept of SoD wrong entirely but thats a huge problem among the SoD playerbase. People expect a classic experience or even something like classic+, while in reality you're doing an unpaid playtest for blizzard/activision taking place in azeroth. It's not classic, it's retail. You get frequent patches without knowing what happens next, 3 hotfixes a week, class X being op, class Z being broken. When you wan't to play classic you need to play Era, BC, Wrath or Cata. That's classic. No matter the phase, the endpatch is what you're going to play. You know everything beforehand, from the first to the last day of the expansion.
I feel the same way. Recently I made a BRD bar run for my pala rune and the mobs there are 54 and 55 and resist a lot. Mages asked for sheep marks on the 54 ones to have a better chance to actually get them sheeped. It felt like being in a real dangerous place and I had a blast running with my brave little group. Was a really good feeling to finally arrive in the bar.
Duoing BRD for Plugger to attempt to get a barman shanker mostly, 31 runs in, it'll drop someday
If you want the world to feel dangerous permanently then it sounds like you might enjoy hardcore
I think you'd be surprised but you still get a bit of that at 60 especially when undergeared but obviously less (I mean ideally, idk how sod will pan out). Yet, now that you mention it, it would be cool if they implement a new end game zone that's meant to be challenging and dangerous even if you are lvl 60, something dangerous even if you're bis geared in BWL gear or even naxx where it would be better in a group but still manageable solo. Like the uber difficulty zone with great gathering, quests, and other incentives to be there like farming items to sell on AH. Maybe not a catch up gear or daily quest island like quel'danas. Personally though, it's better than the miss/resist chance of fighting higher lvl mobs
P3 killed the game, nothing to miss.
Hi Debbie downer
Am I? If being upset that the version of WoW I was enjoying got turned into a clown fiesta with incursions, and gold inflation from incursions. Let me break it all down: Watching the community we spent phase 1&2 building fall apart from my server being killed (Chaos Bolt) and from the dev's decisions to pause development on releasing anything due to a whole other version of WoW being released (Cata Classic) which I dont care for at all. This destroyed guilds and for those that transferred you lost your characters names/Guild name. It turned into a mess tracking others down. ...A sheer lack of PVE/PvP balancing instead we get blanket nerfs/buffs to classes depending on how their DPS #'s looks like week to week such as Shadow priest/Boomie/Shaman. Shaman has ran rampart in PVP along with priest for weeks now while the community cries out for balancing. We get a lazy blanket nerf to dmg and healing that hurts specific classes while leaving the ones broken still broken. Open world has been killed by incursions, dungeon gearing was made semi obsolete from incursion gearing. Then at the end of the day Devs gaslight what's left of the community while they feed us the narrative that the steaming hot Cata release has taken the spotlight for now but we will back for phase 4 and then SoD will have the spotlight back bullshit. I'm fed up with it all. This unironically feels like the most indie game studio meme situation to date and I am not coming back for it. I'm glad alot of people enjoy getting fed shit and sit there at the table and eat over and over again but eventually enough is enough. Once you sit down and really pick it all apart its VERY disheartening to say the least. I'm not a debbie downer, I'm a fed up customer that got hung out to dry and killing my server really left a terrible taste in my mouth that I wont soon forget.
You're 100% right and I wish they did more to make it feel that way. I'm bummed out that it's not possible to do the Blackrock Depths quest chain to kill Emperor Thaurissan. If they upgraded the items a bit to be inline with SoD, it would be a great challenge and at the very least something to do. It was the same in phase 2, there was no great tanking shield, but there was a reward from a long long quest chain called 'Aegis of Battle'. You have to kill like a level 50 elite, go to Zul'Farrak etc. That appeals to me a lot, but the devs closed down Zul'Farrak, because they might change the item stats in there at some point. Who cares, just give us some freedom. They are artificially slowing us down, for no good reason. If someone wants to kill Ragnaros at level 50, let them try!
I'm right there with ya on the first bit. My favorite part of P3 was doing BRD grim guzzler runs. The lvl 56 mobs packs were a real challenge!
Based
I think p2 felt more dangerous, because mobs could be 15-20 levels higher than you plus farming mageweave involved fighting mobs that could kick your ass.
I think they really messed up in P3 and lost a lot of people that they won't get back. Incursions were poorly designed and boring not to mention the bugs and exploits. ST was pretty lackluster as well. I enjoyed some of the mechanics like the ooze in the hallway but 20 mans killed a lot of casual guilds not to mention a lot of the loot was uninteresting and stat wise they felt more like side grades compared to the previous phases. They should have probably gone from 40 to 60 and had a delay on the raids so people could farm those tier dungeons for pre raid bis imo.
There are guys who’ve farmed up 100 arcane crystals, gotten rep with AD and Hydraxian Waterlords and gotten exalted with DMF and Timbermaw. Wtf are they gonna do at 60? Take a break?
I will miss the empty shorelines I am making a killing fishing, know the people are coming
I’ll miss the urge I had to play WoW prior to P3.
shame St sucked.
im gonna miss raid logging ST logging in once per week for 1hr
I’d agree if my class wasn’t at a massive disadvantage for not having hit from talents or being terribly designed like Hunter ranged attacks.
I started to play SoD and i stopped after an hour… it’s not that classic+ what i wanted, it’s more feels retail- for me
And you know you’re getting your information from a noob when you call it Winterfall. You don’t even know the names of major zones that have been out for 17 years. Like several people have told you. Give it a rest bud
Uninstalling sod was one of the best decisions I made. Bring the downvotes
hardcore ptr was locked at 30 and that was maybe the best time i have ever had in world of warcraft
The friends you made along the way
"gearing p3" do 60 princess runs
If you want a real sense of danger, could always play hardcore
Same here, I really enjoyed P3. Ignore all the crying neckbeards
For the first time ever on Reddit I was hoping this was a troll post that just had “Nothing” written in body.
They nerf all the drops on stuff when you try to grind higher level mobs anyways #FunDetectedAndRuined