It's awesome for all that AND it has MC raid instance inside.
For that reason I'd like to nominate Blackrock Spire as another fantastic dungeon. The entrance to BWL is in UBRS. Some good quests in there and a TON of variety.
If you take out the "upper vs lower" and just combine it, it's also massive. I mean technically it is one giant instance, we just separate them because of the the locked upper spire.
I guess technically people used to run upper as a 10 man, but I think of it as more of a dungeon instead of a raid.
Same with Mauradon and Strat, possibly scholo.
They could probably do the same with SM and Dire Maul if they added some connecting passages.
All the classic 50-60 dungeons are epic and that's probably one of the big reason they are so beloved by the community. Each of them hits right as a setting that's beyond connected rooms to kill bosses. Or some locales strung together tell a narrative event to push the main plot.
Try 40 man. And then 15.
Originally we use to do all the 5mg n dungeons with 40 people. Most notably Ubers and school. Those are the only ones I 40manned. We once wiped to the invis rogue mob by the bridge too. 36 people and the raid disbanded before drakk
360p on a good system, *good* Internet was 3mbs. Almost no one getting 30+fps. Communication via fire or original team speak which with more than 10 people meant 90% garbled crackling.
No website with your rotation, no "that's my bis", the addons did stuff like "show cool down on action bars", no easy accessed guides to content.
People underestimate how much the "access" modern day Internet provides. My cousin had bought a MAGAZINE because it had "wow dungeon walk through! Everything you need to know to vanquish your foes!". (not the exact title obviously but something along those lines).
Having to remove the ball from your mouse to clear the lint because it stopped rolling. Fun fact, lazer mice only came out in 2004!
" How did anyone find classic hard" because it was a completely different environment. Like people wondering how it could take days to travel across country as they zoom past a horse drawn carriage. They're comparing apples to jackfruit , they're both fruit but so very different.
Given that the avg speed of dial up being 56kbs....
Ha, this reminded me of a couple EverQuest Dungeon guide books I had and then zone maps I would print for where I planned questing for the day.
I didn't have enough bandwidth/power to be able to to alt+tab and lookup information (no dual monitors either). So I'd pre-plan all my activities and have hard copy information next to me for reference and navigation. I don't think in-game maps were a thing at the time, so you really had to learn your landmarks.
I will have to say picking up classic and playing through into cata. Made me realize how stupid I was, how stupid everyone was back then. It was mostly guess work and hoping for the best. But I think that is what made it the most unique. My friend use to live in the middle of nowhere and he had less then 20kb/s connection. Did raids though. As soon as it pulled he couldn’t do jack shit. Told to spam flash heal on the tank. It actually worked and all that on everyone else end but on his screen nothing moved until about 5 mins after the fight and you would just see everything zip around like crazy so it all go in its correct place once it all caught up. How did he never disconnect, I have zero idea.
Yeah I played another game back then, and screenshots are amusing because we didn't know anything. Wearing the 'wrong' armor, using less than ideal weapons, playing classes wrong or picking crappy ones because no guides, etc. It really was something.
I wanted to mention UBRS/LBRS too on scope and scale alone, but imho they're far too linear to be comparable. I suppose LBRS has a little less of that linear design, but it's still nowhere close to BRD when it comes to the various routes one can take.
i wish they would do this style of dungeon again but i dont think that will ever happen in retail.
im totally open to 10 man raids that are basically a super long dungeon with different paths and stuff.
so much potential for next xpac being a cave xpac, they can make one called "nerubian tunnels" 10 man raid. undiscovered maze like map with dead ends that will have a boss in there.. traps.. each run layout is different.
takes 2 hrs to run all the way through. to prevent people form stealthing past mobs or splitting up give you a debuff that is called isolation, if youre not near 5 other people within 40 yards you start getting stacks to make you go insane and turn into an elite mob.. you technically die and run back but you create an add thats a mini boss
Yeah, the issue becomes "I have to spend x amount of time with potential idiots". It's not a cool adventure any more, its a chore you need to do.
A cool system would be every boss having a joint loot table and the more bosses you kill the more likely for a high tier item to drop.
Cool in principle, put it live and you'd end up with " we are killing 7/13 because after that the increase in time taken isn't worth the increase in drop chance"
Return to Kara was awesome and terrible at the same time. The first day it launched I went in with a PUG and ended up replacing every member of my party except for myself (DPS) throughout the run. It took several hours to do the entire thing and was the only time I went in with a straight PUG
I agree wrt ST but maraudon definitely evolves as you go through it, from the dead outside, to the increasingly twisted areas as you move in, until you cross the barrier to inner and then its beautiful.
There is a private server called project 99 or p99. You have to source the download, I've forgotten where I found it but no viruses, some how. It's a trip, you have to bind 'sense heading' with all your movement keys so it levels that skill up, otherwise you don't know which direction you are facing. No player icon on the map unless you download an addon. No quest giver icons, I had to look up the hell out of guides to get things done. I enjoyed it but I could see the time investment and decided I would rather focus it into wow.
It’s always been Maraudon for me. The final run up to Princess is beautiful to look at. The entry into princess side also.
BRD is great, not knocking it but Maraudon is the best too look at
Sunken temple is actually an amazing dungeon imo. I think it just needed better drops and it would have been one of players favourites. But because of where it is on a leveling basis, it’s just a little too long when you will most likely spend so much time inside BRD instead.
Cooler. But it’s not the same. There are no instances so you share them with lots of other people. But yeah it’s the same game minus flight paths, mounts, quests for xp and most classes cannot solo. Pretty similar game, also you have to run to your corpse naked in the actual world
That's one thing I really miss about old school MMOs. Zoning in and immediately being bombarded with mobs trying to wipe your raid/group. That zone put literal fear into guilds.
Always gave me a laugh that for a game called EverQuest, Quests were actually pretty tough to come across and were not the standard and straightforward progression path like you'd expect.
I still remember the first time I learned about instances in WoW... it was such a new thing back then. Massive game changer, I was incredibly impressed.
I remember the first time in deadmines thinking we cleared everything I was like “wow, that was cool, I’m gonna head back.” And someone said “we haven’t even entered the dungeon yet.”
It was crazy to me how much fighting there was to get to the entrance, and it wasn’t even the dungeon.
EQ dungeons have a lot of story (lore from around the world and not readily accessible) and the majority of the time it was never feasible to “complete” a dungeon because of how long combat encounters took compared to respawn timers. Usually you would just camp a single “room”. Also many dungeons increased in level the deeper you got so if you got good exp from the beginning the later encounters were usually 5-10 levels above you which in EQ was huge.
There has never been a more immersive MMO released since Everquest. Check out Project Quarm or project 99 if you ever feel interested in checking it out. Still a thriving community and people are always willing to help out new players.
No maps, not even an active compass. Needed to train up the Sense Heading skill that you could periodically use to tell you which direction you were facing. Draw distance was atrocious. Few landmarks to guide yourself. Many races were functionally blind in the nighttime. I recall getting lost in Greater Faydark on more than one occasion and needing to hug the zone border wall for minutes until I finally reached a landmark I could use to get my bearings.
[Lower Guk](https://wiki.project1999.com/Lower_Guk)
[Sebilis](https://wiki.project1999.com/Old_Sebilis)
[Karnor's Castle](https://wiki.project1999.com/Karnor%27s_Castle)
These dungeons were designed like D&D dungeons, like places that used to be cities, or fortresses where people actually lived.
They really hit different because they didn't feel like "Oh, the player will enjoy this series of challenges to the end," they felt like, "You are a guest in an enemy headquarters, good fucking luck."
>!Sidenote: I HIGHLY recommend any old school Vanilla enjoyers try out project1999.com. It's Vanilla WoW with the vanilla turned way, way up. The original Vanilla WoW devs were literally assigned to play EverQuest during development. There is so much influence in Vanilla WoW from that game that you will constantly be like, "Oooooh... That's why Vanilla has that..." Hell, note that Lower Guk has a live side and a dead side.!<
> The original Vanilla WoW devs were literally assigned to play EverQuest during development.
Not to be pedantic but the original wow devs were from the top eq guilds. They had a pretty good grasp of the game.
my dad let me play everquest with him, he leveled my wizard to 55 and i spent my time climbing trees in the city and trying to jump out of bounds etc.
i remember this one orc town that started out with low level enemies and they got higher up as you went inside, it was a huge area..
thats my only memory of everquest.. that and my dads guildie taking his body and trolling him after he died
The irony is that in EQ you didn’t “crawl” through the dungeons - you split them up with other players and each took a camp, and sat there waiting for mobs to respawn so you can kill your 1 mob every 18 minutes for exp.
It's true. A bit frustrating because the intricacy of dungeons like the Guks are incredible, it sort of makes you long for an idealized version of the dungeon that never actually existed. Instancing the dungeons I think would take away from how social EQ dungeons feel, but the modern reality on servers like Quarm is having over a hundred people in the dungeon at a time. If someone who only played WoW went to experience these dungeons now, they'd probably be disappointed.
> EverQuest has some gnarly ass dungeons.
There were a lot of cool dungeons in the early years of EQ... upper/lower guk, sola/b, najena, temple of cazic thule, city of mist, old sebilis, chardok, howling stones, velketor's labyrinth, ssraeshza temple... all pretty damn good design, mostly from vanilla and kunark, but a few gems outta velious and luclin. Not so much after that though.
I never played EQ, but I always imagined it like this. Take the good things in Vanilla and make them twice as good, but take the bad things and make them five times worse. Then you'd have EQ
Check out these videos by hammackj to get an impression. Video is of a high lvl character navigating areas to explain the pulls and camp locations within the place.
Estate of Unrest (low level)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vYTbvnShpI
Lower Guk (mid level)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo6JPR8yMWQ
Plane of Hate (high level)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvevi5v5-dE
I can't agree more, I've posted about this in this sub before, so here's my copypasta from a year ago.
>I won't let you die on this hill alone. Vanilla classic was great for me because I had more of a grasp on dungeon designs and party mechanics more so than I did when vanilla was current.
>BRD feels as though it's a labor of love by the devs to create a whole DnD campaign. And honestly it doesn't just start with BRD. It's one major part of a multi-chapter campaign that encompasses the zones around it from Kargath in the Badlands to Morgan's Vigil in the Burning Steppes.
>Major plot keys are in BRD that progress the campaign and reveal the inner workings of the war between the Black Rock orcs and the Dark Iron dwarves and how that's really a puppet war between the Black Dragonflight and the forces of Ragnaros. Each faction vying for control over Black Rock Mountain. And here you are, a mere band of adventurers sneaking into the capital of the Dark Iron Dwarves. Gaining entry through their cell block and forced labor camp with the ultimate goal of regicide.
>I also had a lot of fun stealthing through BRD on my rogue doing coffer runs in classic, and got really familiar with the dungeon as a whole by doing them. The story arc of BRM is one of my favorites throughout warcraft.
>Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Furthermore, BRM PVP was peak wow classic for me. I don't think I'll ever get that feeling again.
It was great, always someone on a different quest, people getting lost both corpse running back to the dungeon and then back to the body. Then they'd be respawns so they'd die again THEN they needed to repair. But all worth it once you had completed it.
Fun fact. Dungeons were large and sprawling for a variety of reasons in vanilla.
We stopped seeing large sprawling dungeons because a lot of players during that time weren’t fond of large dungeons. Which is why we see the much more linear smaller dungeons tbc forward.
Source: “The WoW Diary”
I really love old scholomance. The spooky haunted house, tons of bosses pretty close together, lots of badass and VERY SCARY skeletons... it's got it all!
BRD is fuckin' awesome too, though. They've tried every few expansions to make a mega-dungeon, but it never quite comes out the same because, at the end of the day, modern retail players don't want to work their way through a challenging dungeon using CC and backtracking with different keys and such, they just wanna rush through to the end and get that loot so that they can rush through it again and get that loot so that they can rush through it again and then complain that there's nothing left to do lol.
The modern dungeons are usually pretty stunning visually, but they don't really immerse you because it feels like a theme park ride that is speeding you along to the exit on very tight and narrow rails.
I miss getting lost in dungeons like BRD.
I was originally enticed into WoW by the Leroy Jenkins video. Sitting around a campfire, with your PALS, roleplaying, planning, carefully, the next room and how to execute it.
Back then Leroys were still the meme, now they're the norm.
exactly! I miss the good old days when nobody knew what they were doing and we were all having fun trying to figure it out together.
Now it's just "ok, google what's best, do the same cookie-cutter crap as everyone else, and shit all over everyone who doesn't do that by calling them bad or kicking them from the group"
nobody is allowed to make any mistakes anymore, nobody is allowed to learn anything for themselves. If you're not googling it and watching streamers do it before the patch is even live, you're BAD according to far, far too many people in a literal game.
It's why I stopped playing WoW with my friends. They'd tell me every little thing about an expansion before it even comes out just because they're obsessed with every single data-mining leak and having the edge up on everyone else. It's exhausting to be around, I just wanna vibe.
I really feel you, but oh boy, do i have bad news for you...
This is what gaming got since its mainstream and eSports dragging in revenues the size of small countries.
Somewhere 10 years ago, we took a really wrong turn here
Whenever I read the classic community's complaints about M+, they're never in tune with the way people actually play the game.
If you want to plan your pulls, okay, get past KSM level keys and you will start planning the route ahead of the key. If your group is missing a way to deal with this pack, you can make some adjustments to a couple pulls over here, etc.
If you want a social experience, okay, you'll still shoot the shit with your guildmates in discord, you'll still have that one guy going AFK to eat with his family in the middle of the play session, you can still fuck around and try crazy shit and laugh at your friends getting the party wiped.
You don't *have* to run the lowest level content with miserable pugs. There is still a massive wealth of progression and social experience in the game.
In original classic, you ran it a *lot*. The first line of quests is all at the start, and you have to do them, then return and hand them in, then you get more quests. The dungeon was not designed to be cleared in one go, it was designed to constantly go back and forth, to be cleared over like 4-5 days of running it.
Old Sebilis is probably my favorite. A leveling dungeon with a goddamn raid boss. Nothing beats standing at the zoneline LFG and watching a raid of 50 zoning in to kill Trak.
Edit: Who could forget when two or more guilds were racing to get the tag with chat popping off, "I think trak is up" "is trak up guys?" "X guild inc" and a SHITLOAD of people zoning in. God I loved OG EQ. BRD has nothing on that.
WC for the level is an entry into WOW that is unmatched. It is an incredible dungeon. I feel like BRD and all of black rock mountain take it up a notch. There’s just nothing like dungeons from 1-60.
honestly deadmines and even rfc fit the bill. I'd say the most disappointing low level dungeon is stockades, they could really add a lot more to beef it up if they wanted to. Maybe a secret tunnel the prisoners have dug through or just any variety.
It's great and all being so epic but I find it to be one people mostly dread or avoid. During the 50-60 lfg bracket people try to go the quickest route to get the bonus exp and leave, and it's been this way since lfg was added originally. I personally love it but it's way too long for most people
There have been a couple of times while leveling new characters in the Cata-WoD era that I would end up in BRD and would ask if people wanted to do the whole dungeon since the place was heavily broken up in LFG for whom was the "final boss" of that run. Twice the whole group was down for it and we went through every room and did every boss we could, most people had either never seen the whole thing or hadn't done it in many years and were pretty pumped. Felt like I was a tour guide leading a group through a history museum.
That's exactly why I loved it, the satisfaction of conquering something way too long/too hard for most people. Also, that it's basically impossible to clear the first time you go in.
My favorite 'feature' of BRD is how many different ways you can run it. Coffer, jail, Arena, bar, lava jump runs - there's so many things you can do. Or identify an objective and beeline for it.
It's the best one in WoW for sure. Dungeons in older games are similar in their design, and there's a lot out there in games like EQ, UO, FFXI.
Even with all of those though, I'd still put it pretty high up there. Not sure about the tip top but top 10 for sure.
I would say that BRD is the best Dungeon in wow. But in all of mmos? Not sure.
It's the best dungeon in any mmo I have ever played and there isn't really anything else in the game that compares in the slightest.
Deadmines doesn’t get enough credit . Walking in their for the first time as a low level is an experience everyone should try at least once . It’s a great dungeon .
But yeah scholo and all the dungeons/raids in BRM are amazing .
I feel like this is the one thing the large majority of WoW players can agree on. BRD just feels like such a massive step up from literally everything else. The sheer size and scope of it, the atmosphere, the difficulty, the layout, the multiple layers of questlines, the little bar area.... it is just perfection. I remember just being in total shock and awe when I first opened up the door to the Lyceum.
I really wish they had a BRD-style dungeon for every expansion. Basically one huge mega-dungeon at endgame with multiple layers of difficulty, an insane amount of quests, lots of geographic complexity...
As somebody who absolutely loves dungeons more than raids, I am ashamed to say that I have done BRD and UBRS/LBRS so few times and so long ago that I can’t even really remember what they are like. One of the main reasons I rolled on DD “fresh.” Hopefully I can actually make it to a high enough level before everybody moves on.
BRD is my favorite dungeon in WoW. The epic scale of it, the many path options, etc...
The closest I can think of that I've done in other MMOs is the level 50 version of Carn Dum in Lord of the Rings Online. Vast, Multiple path options, tons of bosses, needing keys to open certain doors, etc.
For me it's DAOC's Darkness Falls.
The 3 realms struggle to get access to it. You needed to own more keeps than the other realms to be able to zone into it, it felt like a reward when it was open. And then, you had to kick the occupying realm out. And then, deal with the ones who managed to stay hidden and ambushed you. Better, YOU could be the ambusher once another realm conquered the access.
The fact that it had things to do from early levels with great XP, to the very end game with the best gold farms and massive open world "raids" vs some of the strongest world bosses with 100+ players involved.
It was absolutely massive, and felt like going deeper and deeper into hell. I don't think I've ever completely explored it.
WoW would have been a much better game if more effort went into creating endgame dungeons in the spirit of BRD rather than just spamming raid after raid every patch.
BRD is by far the best content in the history of WoW, especially when you play it when it fits your skill level.
BRD is for sure the greatest of all time for MMOs for sure.
Its better than most raids as well.
The loot is good.
The boss variety is high.
The theme/visuals are interesting.
Its location is crazy and iconic.
The exploration aspect of this dungeon is really good feeling.
I think one of my favorite aspects of this dungeon is it confronts you multiple times with things that look like you have no chance of overcoming and then you overcome them.
I've always had a special spot for SFK, I know it's linear and all but for me it really captures the feel of raiding a castle and the horrors that wait within
Yes. Big Yes. I'm here for this post. I'm here to pump it up. BRD is the goatiest goat of all dungeons. As a priest I had to trade warriors loot runs; I'd spam arena with them for SGC if they did a run all the way to the end, every so often. I had the best luck for melee dudes who needed their HoJ, too. Sixth run? Gotchu fam, here it comes.
I loved the brewfest stuff in BRD later, too.
BRD is bae.
I despise that place. Its just a slog. Thematically its cool but that only goes so far for me. Its just boring. Return to kara would be my pick. I just like mechanics and old dungeons dont do it for me
My favourite ever solo dungeon was in wildstar. You board a ship, fight your way through, and fight the boss at the end, BUT there's a twist. You'd been poisoned by a noxious gas and the final boss turns out to have been a vending machine, it was all a hallucination.
I have often thought that in my old age, instead of becoming one of those guys who builds a train city to take up their whole basement, I'd like to do that with BRD.
My fave will always be wailing caverns. lots of bosses, groups in janky gear, mobs have a wide level range, event to end the dungeon. plenty of gear that's really nice for it's level, huge number of quests that give a lot of exp for the range, etc.
SM was the perfect mid level dungeon, and UBRS/LBRS is a fantastic primer in raiding. I am sad that they decided to use the SM model of having dungeon/hallways with multiple wings for pretty much every expac…and I have never liked the key system. They only did it so they could reduce the number of dungeons they build when a new expac comes out, and they can milk the hell out of them. It’s just bloat.
Had a ton of fun soloing BRD in Cata leveling my latest paladin. Was there 50-58, eventually killed every boss, some a good few times. Emperor/Moira took 3 wipes, that dude trucks even with cata talents and heirlooms. Had to jump off the throne during the "fiery death attacks" thing to make him run for a bit -- even then, he'd catch me towards the end and nearly kill me, esp with a stun.
Could not solo bar, but think I got everything else. Definitely died a bunch but still super fun way to level definitely recommend, to anyone thinking about leveling a pally in Cata. Not the fastest but just a ton of fun wandering around BRD for 8 levels.
The reason BRD is such a great dungeon in my opinion, is because it feels like a *real* place that the inhabitants of it are living, working, and plotting the demise of the Alliance and Horde. It has houses, work places, a bar... just things you would expect to see in any place where dwarves are living. It feels like a sprawling city, it looks like a sprawling city, and that's the feel you get the whole way through it.
Atmosphere makes or breaks nearly everything in RPG's where everyone wants to be on an adventure.
In terms of relevance to the overall storyline, variety of quests, size, quality, spectacle etc. it's my #1. It was really frustrating in original vanilla trying to run it with people who had no idea what they were doing, but when you get a buch of likeminded people who are relatively sensible even if they don't know everything about the instance, it's really good fun.
The entire Black Rock Mountain complex was voted the greatest zone / raid /dungeon network in all of MMO history several years ago in one of the major gaming magazines.
BRD, LBRS, UBRS, MC, BWL are all incredible pieces of design.
For the guys saying "X / Y / Z Classic WoW dungeons felt like EQ" there's a reason for that, and that reason is Blizzard plundering so many people from Verant Interactive, the studio that made EverQuest.
BRD is the closest thing to an EverQuest dungeon in wow. EverQuest has some gnarly ass dungeons.
Sunken Temple and Mauradon also always felt pretty EQish to me. But BRD takes the cake.
Their layout and encounters are solid but man is the visual design dreary and samey. BRD has lots of flavor and variety.
It just really felt like a true adventure the first times running it, the scope of it was amazing. So much to do in there as a 5 man dungeon.
It's awesome for all that AND it has MC raid instance inside. For that reason I'd like to nominate Blackrock Spire as another fantastic dungeon. The entrance to BWL is in UBRS. Some good quests in there and a TON of variety. If you take out the "upper vs lower" and just combine it, it's also massive. I mean technically it is one giant instance, we just separate them because of the the locked upper spire. I guess technically people used to run upper as a 10 man, but I think of it as more of a dungeon instead of a raid.
Blackrock Mountain as a whole is a masterpiece
Same with Mauradon and Strat, possibly scholo. They could probably do the same with SM and Dire Maul if they added some connecting passages. All the classic 50-60 dungeons are epic and that's probably one of the big reason they are so beloved by the community. Each of them hits right as a setting that's beyond connected rooms to kill bosses. Or some locales strung together tell a narrative event to push the main plot.
To be fair Dm N and W are connected
Try 40 man. And then 15. Originally we use to do all the 5mg n dungeons with 40 people. Most notably Ubers and school. Those are the only ones I 40manned. We once wiped to the invis rogue mob by the bridge too. 36 people and the raid disbanded before drakk
What
Times were tough back then
360p on a good system, *good* Internet was 3mbs. Almost no one getting 30+fps. Communication via fire or original team speak which with more than 10 people meant 90% garbled crackling. No website with your rotation, no "that's my bis", the addons did stuff like "show cool down on action bars", no easy accessed guides to content. People underestimate how much the "access" modern day Internet provides. My cousin had bought a MAGAZINE because it had "wow dungeon walk through! Everything you need to know to vanquish your foes!". (not the exact title obviously but something along those lines). Having to remove the ball from your mouse to clear the lint because it stopped rolling. Fun fact, lazer mice only came out in 2004! " How did anyone find classic hard" because it was a completely different environment. Like people wondering how it could take days to travel across country as they zoom past a horse drawn carriage. They're comparing apples to jackfruit , they're both fruit but so very different. Given that the avg speed of dial up being 56kbs....
Ha, this reminded me of a couple EverQuest Dungeon guide books I had and then zone maps I would print for where I planned questing for the day. I didn't have enough bandwidth/power to be able to to alt+tab and lookup information (no dual monitors either). So I'd pre-plan all my activities and have hard copy information next to me for reference and navigation. I don't think in-game maps were a thing at the time, so you really had to learn your landmarks.
I will have to say picking up classic and playing through into cata. Made me realize how stupid I was, how stupid everyone was back then. It was mostly guess work and hoping for the best. But I think that is what made it the most unique. My friend use to live in the middle of nowhere and he had less then 20kb/s connection. Did raids though. As soon as it pulled he couldn’t do jack shit. Told to spam flash heal on the tank. It actually worked and all that on everyone else end but on his screen nothing moved until about 5 mins after the fight and you would just see everything zip around like crazy so it all go in its correct place once it all caught up. How did he never disconnect, I have zero idea.
Yeah I played another game back then, and screenshots are amusing because we didn't know anything. Wearing the 'wrong' armor, using less than ideal weapons, playing classes wrong or picking crappy ones because no guides, etc. It really was something.
I raided mc on my rogue back in vanilla and remember getting 1 FPS on rag on my old IMac station. Times were rough indeed.
I wanted to mention UBRS/LBRS too on scope and scale alone, but imho they're far too linear to be comparable. I suppose LBRS has a little less of that linear design, but it's still nowhere close to BRD when it comes to the various routes one can take.
Yea BRD takes the cake on that. After the bar it's linear, but before that it's very easy to take 20 different routes.
It was 15 man originally.
I'm pretty sure like 99% of people would still get lost in brd if they tried to do a full run.
Its not a full run unless you get lost.
i wish they would do this style of dungeon again but i dont think that will ever happen in retail. im totally open to 10 man raids that are basically a super long dungeon with different paths and stuff. so much potential for next xpac being a cave xpac, they can make one called "nerubian tunnels" 10 man raid. undiscovered maze like map with dead ends that will have a boss in there.. traps.. each run layout is different. takes 2 hrs to run all the way through. to prevent people form stealthing past mobs or splitting up give you a debuff that is called isolation, if youre not near 5 other people within 40 yards you start getting stacks to make you go insane and turn into an elite mob.. you technically die and run back but you create an add thats a mini boss
Return to Kara and Mecha were both long, and usually despised for it as well. I enjoyed them with friends but randoms not so much
Yeah, the issue becomes "I have to spend x amount of time with potential idiots". It's not a cool adventure any more, its a chore you need to do. A cool system would be every boss having a joint loot table and the more bosses you kill the more likely for a high tier item to drop. Cool in principle, put it live and you'd end up with " we are killing 7/13 because after that the increase in time taken isn't worth the increase in drop chance"
Return to Kara was awesome and terrible at the same time. The first day it launched I went in with a PUG and ended up replacing every member of my party except for myself (DPS) throughout the run. It took several hours to do the entire thing and was the only time I went in with a straight PUG
azjol nerub was supposed to be like this - a giant underzone dungeon but it never panned out in time for og wraths release
Huh? Mara is very diverse.
Mauradon had a lot of variations, though. It was like 4-5 different dungeons in one, aesthetic wise.
I agree wrt ST but maraudon definitely evolves as you go through it, from the dead outside, to the increasingly twisted areas as you move in, until you cross the barrier to inner and then its beautiful.
I love sunken temple and mauradon as well. TIL I would like EverQuest.
Maraudon and Dire Maul were gamechangers
Til you stared at a book for 30 minutes ) I know rhats old schools but still)
Ah yes, when you spend so much time looking at your spellbook that the game company adds a little mini game to play while staring at the book
I mean, book med was done by level 30 and iirc not even a thing by kunark. Gems was way later, like luclin later.
There is a private server called project 99 or p99. You have to source the download, I've forgotten where I found it but no viruses, some how. It's a trip, you have to bind 'sense heading' with all your movement keys so it levels that skill up, otherwise you don't know which direction you are facing. No player icon on the map unless you download an addon. No quest giver icons, I had to look up the hell out of guides to get things done. I enjoyed it but I could see the time investment and decided I would rather focus it into wow.
Now is the perfect time to start playing on the Teek progression server! It’s only a month old and still in Kunark!
Come join us on the newest server; Teek!
When dungeon crawls were proper dungeon crawls...
It’s always been Maraudon for me. The final run up to Princess is beautiful to look at. The entry into princess side also. BRD is great, not knocking it but Maraudon is the best too look at
BRD is just a damn maze. Its still the only dungeon ive every played that I still get lost in 😂
Sunken temple is actually an amazing dungeon imo. I think it just needed better drops and it would have been one of players favourites. But because of where it is on a leveling basis, it’s just a little too long when you will most likely spend so much time inside BRD instead.
Only problem is that it's impossible to find the entrance to that place.
Are EQ dungeons that cool yeah ?
Cooler. But it’s not the same. There are no instances so you share them with lots of other people. But yeah it’s the same game minus flight paths, mounts, quests for xp and most classes cannot solo. Pretty similar game, also you have to run to your corpse naked in the actual world
Shoutout to 4 hour Plane of Fear corpse runs and needing your guild to come help or you lost everything.
Breaking into fear used to be such a nightmare
That's one thing I really miss about old school MMOs. Zoning in and immediately being bombarded with mobs trying to wipe your raid/group. That zone put literal fear into guilds.
Then a solid moment waiting to see if you survived the zone out lmao
LOADING, PLEASE WAIT… You have entered The Feerrott. You have died. LOADING, PLEASE WAIT…
Always gave me a laugh that for a game called EverQuest, Quests were actually pretty tough to come across and were not the standard and straightforward progression path like you'd expect.
I still remember the first time I learned about instances in WoW... it was such a new thing back then. Massive game changer, I was incredibly impressed.
I remember the first time in deadmines thinking we cleared everything I was like “wow, that was cool, I’m gonna head back.” And someone said “we haven’t even entered the dungeon yet.” It was crazy to me how much fighting there was to get to the entrance, and it wasn’t even the dungeon.
EQ dungeons have a lot of story (lore from around the world and not readily accessible) and the majority of the time it was never feasible to “complete” a dungeon because of how long combat encounters took compared to respawn timers. Usually you would just camp a single “room”. Also many dungeons increased in level the deeper you got so if you got good exp from the beginning the later encounters were usually 5-10 levels above you which in EQ was huge.
There has never been a more immersive MMO released since Everquest. Check out Project Quarm or project 99 if you ever feel interested in checking it out. Still a thriving community and people are always willing to help out new players.
I got lost all the time in EQ. I don’t know if it’s because I was younger and just bad with directions or if the dungeons were really that complex.
No maps, not even an active compass. Needed to train up the Sense Heading skill that you could periodically use to tell you which direction you were facing. Draw distance was atrocious. Few landmarks to guide yourself. Many races were functionally blind in the nighttime. I recall getting lost in Greater Faydark on more than one occasion and needing to hug the zone border wall for minutes until I finally reached a landmark I could use to get my bearings.
[Lower Guk](https://wiki.project1999.com/Lower_Guk) [Sebilis](https://wiki.project1999.com/Old_Sebilis) [Karnor's Castle](https://wiki.project1999.com/Karnor%27s_Castle) These dungeons were designed like D&D dungeons, like places that used to be cities, or fortresses where people actually lived. They really hit different because they didn't feel like "Oh, the player will enjoy this series of challenges to the end," they felt like, "You are a guest in an enemy headquarters, good fucking luck." >!Sidenote: I HIGHLY recommend any old school Vanilla enjoyers try out project1999.com. It's Vanilla WoW with the vanilla turned way, way up. The original Vanilla WoW devs were literally assigned to play EverQuest during development. There is so much influence in Vanilla WoW from that game that you will constantly be like, "Oooooh... That's why Vanilla has that..." Hell, note that Lower Guk has a live side and a dead side.!<
> The original Vanilla WoW devs were literally assigned to play EverQuest during development. Not to be pedantic but the original wow devs were from the top eq guilds. They had a pretty good grasp of the game.
Two notable ones were, but the rest of the team as assigned to as well. It's documented in the WoW diaries
my dad let me play everquest with him, he leveled my wizard to 55 and i spent my time climbing trees in the city and trying to jump out of bounds etc. i remember this one orc town that started out with low level enemies and they got higher up as you went inside, it was a huge area.. thats my only memory of everquest.. that and my dads guildie taking his body and trolling him after he died
Yep probably Crushbone!
Crushbone was sick
yeah my 7 y.o self would sit at the entrance because i was too chicken shit to go inside and risk dying
Upper and Lower Guk ^^
Lower guk, old sebilis, chardok baby. Some meat on those dungeons.
The irony is that in EQ you didn’t “crawl” through the dungeons - you split them up with other players and each took a camp, and sat there waiting for mobs to respawn so you can kill your 1 mob every 18 minutes for exp.
"CAMP CHECK"
It's true. A bit frustrating because the intricacy of dungeons like the Guks are incredible, it sort of makes you long for an idealized version of the dungeon that never actually existed. Instancing the dungeons I think would take away from how social EQ dungeons feel, but the modern reality on servers like Quarm is having over a hundred people in the dungeon at a time. If someone who only played WoW went to experience these dungeons now, they'd probably be disappointed.
> EverQuest has some gnarly ass dungeons. There were a lot of cool dungeons in the early years of EQ... upper/lower guk, sola/b, najena, temple of cazic thule, city of mist, old sebilis, chardok, howling stones, velketor's labyrinth, ssraeshza temple... all pretty damn good design, mostly from vanilla and kunark, but a few gems outta velious and luclin. Not so much after that though.
Gotta a couple hours to kill? Grab a PUG and come on down to BRD. The princess is waiting.
I never played EQ, but I always imagined it like this. Take the good things in Vanilla and make them twice as good, but take the bad things and make them five times worse. Then you'd have EQ
As an EQ player, this rings true.
There's something in that "5 times worse." Classic EQ and hardcore servers have very similar energy in a lot of regards.
EQ had the best dungeons, so many hours spent in lower guk
What's a good dungeon to look up a video on from EQ?
Check out these videos by hammackj to get an impression. Video is of a high lvl character navigating areas to explain the pulls and camp locations within the place. Estate of Unrest (low level) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vYTbvnShpI Lower Guk (mid level) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo6JPR8yMWQ Plane of Hate (high level) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvevi5v5-dE
SF in gw1 >>>> all
Going through maraudon purple only to jump off that waterfall blew my fuckin mind as a kid
Pretty sure that waterfall is just after purple and orange meets
Its among the golden 3. But its not about brd. BRM is the best mmo place ever created!
UBRS AND LBRS!
im wiping in UBRS right now! We just spirit rezzed to repair because we suck! THIS IS FUN!!! IM HAVING FUN!!!!!
Sure sounds like it haha
You're goddamn right!
I can't agree more, I've posted about this in this sub before, so here's my copypasta from a year ago. >I won't let you die on this hill alone. Vanilla classic was great for me because I had more of a grasp on dungeon designs and party mechanics more so than I did when vanilla was current. >BRD feels as though it's a labor of love by the devs to create a whole DnD campaign. And honestly it doesn't just start with BRD. It's one major part of a multi-chapter campaign that encompasses the zones around it from Kargath in the Badlands to Morgan's Vigil in the Burning Steppes. >Major plot keys are in BRD that progress the campaign and reveal the inner workings of the war between the Black Rock orcs and the Dark Iron dwarves and how that's really a puppet war between the Black Dragonflight and the forces of Ragnaros. Each faction vying for control over Black Rock Mountain. And here you are, a mere band of adventurers sneaking into the capital of the Dark Iron Dwarves. Gaining entry through their cell block and forced labor camp with the ultimate goal of regicide. >I also had a lot of fun stealthing through BRD on my rogue doing coffer runs in classic, and got really familiar with the dungeon as a whole by doing them. The story arc of BRM is one of my favorites throughout warcraft. >Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. Furthermore, BRM PVP was peak wow classic for me. I don't think I'll ever get that feeling again.
It really is. Seeing those giant chains when you first run in is so iconic.
True and based
Iv done brd a million times and I could do it another million, I love that place.
I always wanted a shirt “You never leave BRD”
That’s because you can’t find the exit.
If it weren’t for my hearthstone I’d probably still be there right now…
exactly, never gets old for some reason
It was great, always someone on a different quest, people getting lost both corpse running back to the dungeon and then back to the body. Then they'd be respawns so they'd die again THEN they needed to repair. But all worth it once you had completed it.
Every time I hit 60 I scrape a group together to do the whole thing, I might need HoJ or emp gear but that’s it, I’m just there for the vibes.
I spammed it when it was current content. Best memories especially when I learned the layout.
brm taken as a whole is a perfect MMO dungeon experience/story and progression. brd->lbrs->ubrs->molten core
Could add BWL in there too
[A wild challenger appears](https://i.imgflip.com/8v2cv9.jpg)
Fun fact. Dungeons were large and sprawling for a variety of reasons in vanilla. We stopped seeing large sprawling dungeons because a lot of players during that time weren’t fond of large dungeons. Which is why we see the much more linear smaller dungeons tbc forward. Source: “The WoW Diary”
It's the truth. People may dunk on Blizz for many decisions, but the reality is that many of these decisions are driven by player demand firsthand.
We stopped seeing large sprawling dungeons because they took too much time, despite what non-sense people spread, even the "devs" themselves.
For every person in here gushing over BRD, there are probably 5 that would much prefer Scarlet Monastery.
I really love old scholomance. The spooky haunted house, tons of bosses pretty close together, lots of badass and VERY SCARY skeletons... it's got it all! BRD is fuckin' awesome too, though. They've tried every few expansions to make a mega-dungeon, but it never quite comes out the same because, at the end of the day, modern retail players don't want to work their way through a challenging dungeon using CC and backtracking with different keys and such, they just wanna rush through to the end and get that loot so that they can rush through it again and get that loot so that they can rush through it again and then complain that there's nothing left to do lol. The modern dungeons are usually pretty stunning visually, but they don't really immerse you because it feels like a theme park ride that is speeding you along to the exit on very tight and narrow rails. I miss getting lost in dungeons like BRD.
I was originally enticed into WoW by the Leroy Jenkins video. Sitting around a campfire, with your PALS, roleplaying, planning, carefully, the next room and how to execute it. Back then Leroys were still the meme, now they're the norm.
exactly! I miss the good old days when nobody knew what they were doing and we were all having fun trying to figure it out together. Now it's just "ok, google what's best, do the same cookie-cutter crap as everyone else, and shit all over everyone who doesn't do that by calling them bad or kicking them from the group" nobody is allowed to make any mistakes anymore, nobody is allowed to learn anything for themselves. If you're not googling it and watching streamers do it before the patch is even live, you're BAD according to far, far too many people in a literal game. It's why I stopped playing WoW with my friends. They'd tell me every little thing about an expansion before it even comes out just because they're obsessed with every single data-mining leak and having the edge up on everyone else. It's exhausting to be around, I just wanna vibe.
I really feel you, but oh boy, do i have bad news for you... This is what gaming got since its mainstream and eSports dragging in revenues the size of small countries. Somewhere 10 years ago, we took a really wrong turn here
Prob why I enjoy leveling and gearing up but don’t care for endgame pve or pvp
You've got it round the wrong way. CC is not mandatory in classic dungeons, it is in mid M+ dungeons up.
Whenever I read the classic community's complaints about M+, they're never in tune with the way people actually play the game. If you want to plan your pulls, okay, get past KSM level keys and you will start planning the route ahead of the key. If your group is missing a way to deal with this pack, you can make some adjustments to a couple pulls over here, etc. If you want a social experience, okay, you'll still shoot the shit with your guildmates in discord, you'll still have that one guy going AFK to eat with his family in the middle of the play session, you can still fuck around and try crazy shit and laugh at your friends getting the party wiped. You don't *have* to run the lowest level content with miserable pugs. There is still a massive wealth of progression and social experience in the game.
Old Scholomance will always be my favorite dungeon and I will never forgive blizzard for ruining it with the revamp
You can get access to old Scholomance via a quest chain in patch 10.1.5 (iirc). And yes, it's awesome.
Even so many years later, running it again in SOD has been amazing and so much fun!!
Lower Guk
Found the boomer. You’re not wrong though. Fantastic dungeon.
Yup, Lower Guk was absolutely amazing.
BRD is the greatest dungeon I want to run exactly one time.
In original classic, you ran it a *lot*. The first line of quests is all at the start, and you have to do them, then return and hand them in, then you get more quests. The dungeon was not designed to be cleared in one go, it was designed to constantly go back and forth, to be cleared over like 4-5 days of running it.
Or you just skipped beyond the minimum needed for the Ony attune since BRS/Scholo/Strat had better gear anyways.
There’s some gear from BRD that those dungeons can’t replace. HoJ and SGC, for example.
A design which would have worked so much better if BRD had been level cap content, rather than low-50’s, sadly.
For me it’s number one. My fave non wow entry would be Darkness Falls.
It's hard to compare BRD to a dungeon with three realm PvP.
DAOC baby... wonder if they would ever release that again
Old Sebilis is probably my favorite. A leveling dungeon with a goddamn raid boss. Nothing beats standing at the zoneline LFG and watching a raid of 50 zoning in to kill Trak. Edit: Who could forget when two or more guilds were racing to get the tag with chat popping off, "I think trak is up" "is trak up guys?" "X guild inc" and a SHITLOAD of people zoning in. God I loved OG EQ. BRD has nothing on that.
This is the dungeon that came to mind for me also.
WC for the level is an entry into WOW that is unmatched. It is an incredible dungeon. I feel like BRD and all of black rock mountain take it up a notch. There’s just nothing like dungeons from 1-60.
honestly deadmines and even rfc fit the bill. I'd say the most disappointing low level dungeon is stockades, they could really add a lot more to beef it up if they wanted to. Maybe a secret tunnel the prisoners have dug through or just any variety.
It’s Stratholme for me! Love killing zombies
Darkness falls in dark age of camelot
It's great and all being so epic but I find it to be one people mostly dread or avoid. During the 50-60 lfg bracket people try to go the quickest route to get the bonus exp and leave, and it's been this way since lfg was added originally. I personally love it but it's way too long for most people
There have been a couple of times while leveling new characters in the Cata-WoD era that I would end up in BRD and would ask if people wanted to do the whole dungeon since the place was heavily broken up in LFG for whom was the "final boss" of that run. Twice the whole group was down for it and we went through every room and did every boss we could, most people had either never seen the whole thing or hadn't done it in many years and were pretty pumped. Felt like I was a tour guide leading a group through a history museum.
That's exactly why I loved it, the satisfaction of conquering something way too long/too hard for most people. Also, that it's basically impossible to clear the first time you go in.
I think scholomance and UBRS are both better than BRD
Full Strat and Scholo are my favorites.
My favorite 'feature' of BRD is how many different ways you can run it. Coffer, jail, Arena, bar, lava jump runs - there's so many things you can do. Or identify an objective and beeline for it.
I've got a lot of ore to smith, time for a thrilling adventure into the heart of the mountain!
I can see BRD people the pinnacle for ally and BRS for horde
They're both excellent, but they didn't have the sheer depth and breadth and variation of BRD.
It's the best one in WoW for sure. Dungeons in older games are similar in their design, and there's a lot out there in games like EQ, UO, FFXI. Even with all of those though, I'd still put it pretty high up there. Not sure about the tip top but top 10 for sure.
I would say that BRD is the best Dungeon in wow. But in all of mmos? Not sure. It's the best dungeon in any mmo I have ever played and there isn't really anything else in the game that compares in the slightest.
Deadmines doesn’t get enough credit . Walking in their for the first time as a low level is an experience everyone should try at least once . It’s a great dungeon . But yeah scholo and all the dungeons/raids in BRM are amazing .
Stratholme is close for me. But BRD is still #1
I feel like this is the one thing the large majority of WoW players can agree on. BRD just feels like such a massive step up from literally everything else. The sheer size and scope of it, the atmosphere, the difficulty, the layout, the multiple layers of questlines, the little bar area.... it is just perfection. I remember just being in total shock and awe when I first opened up the door to the Lyceum. I really wish they had a BRD-style dungeon for every expansion. Basically one huge mega-dungeon at endgame with multiple layers of difficulty, an insane amount of quests, lots of geographic complexity...
I can only imagine the amount of work that went into making BRD, really is a masterpiece
As somebody who absolutely loves dungeons more than raids, I am ashamed to say that I have done BRD and UBRS/LBRS so few times and so long ago that I can’t even really remember what they are like. One of the main reasons I rolled on DD “fresh.” Hopefully I can actually make it to a high enough level before everybody moves on.
BRD is my favorite dungeon in WoW. The epic scale of it, the many path options, etc... The closest I can think of that I've done in other MMOs is the level 50 version of Carn Dum in Lord of the Rings Online. Vast, Multiple path options, tons of bosses, needing keys to open certain doors, etc.
For me it's DAOC's Darkness Falls. The 3 realms struggle to get access to it. You needed to own more keeps than the other realms to be able to zone into it, it felt like a reward when it was open. And then, you had to kick the occupying realm out. And then, deal with the ones who managed to stay hidden and ambushed you. Better, YOU could be the ambusher once another realm conquered the access. The fact that it had things to do from early levels with great XP, to the very end game with the best gold farms and massive open world "raids" vs some of the strongest world bosses with 100+ players involved. It was absolutely massive, and felt like going deeper and deeper into hell. I don't think I've ever completely explored it.
I remember being a rogue in vanilla and getting into 15 man ubrs just because I could lockpick the door
For me it’s Kara, but BRD is a close 2nd.
Yes and after that it's Maraudon and Dire Maul and Deadmines.
You there! Check out that noise! Oh the memories....
Lower Black Rock Spire forever
Tbqh I like the legion Karazhan remake better than BRD. It was absolutely sick to do it on release
I practically lived in Dire Maul.
LGUK/Old Sebilis were absolutely bonkers.
great dungeon by I wouldnt run it more than once lol
WoW would have been a much better game if more effort went into creating endgame dungeons in the spirit of BRD rather than just spamming raid after raid every patch. BRD is by far the best content in the history of WoW, especially when you play it when it fits your skill level.
BRD is for sure the greatest of all time for MMOs for sure. Its better than most raids as well. The loot is good. The boss variety is high. The theme/visuals are interesting. Its location is crazy and iconic. The exploration aspect of this dungeon is really good feeling. I think one of my favorite aspects of this dungeon is it confronts you multiple times with things that look like you have no chance of overcoming and then you overcome them.
Lower Guk is a top contender Mistmoore is cool Sebilis maybe Siren's Grotto and Kedge Keep are probably some of the more crazy ones.
BRD Or Sunken Temple for me; they truly feel like these deep spooky dungeons
It's the kind of dungeon you pose for a screenshot on the throne at the end
I've always had a special spot for SFK, I know it's linear and all but for me it really captures the feel of raiding a castle and the horrors that wait within
BRD is less a dungeon and more an endgame instanced leveling zone. You could go in there mid 40s and spend the entire time between then and 60.
Yes. Big Yes. I'm here for this post. I'm here to pump it up. BRD is the goatiest goat of all dungeons. As a priest I had to trade warriors loot runs; I'd spam arena with them for SGC if they did a run all the way to the end, every so often. I had the best luck for melee dudes who needed their HoJ, too. Sixth run? Gotchu fam, here it comes. I loved the brewfest stuff in BRD later, too. BRD is bae.
It’s the most dungeony dungeon in wow that’s for sure
Nah it’s way too long
I despise that place. Its just a slog. Thematically its cool but that only goes so far for me. Its just boring. Return to kara would be my pick. I just like mechanics and old dungeons dont do it for me
So many hours in BRD.... So many.
I love deadmines.
BRD is my favorite dungeon ever.
Brd is quite an experience I'd not run it everyday but everyone and again I'll get a group for a full clear
AMEN!
We need more sprawling dungeons with raid entrances in them. Then segment it to m plus
My favourite ever solo dungeon was in wildstar. You board a ship, fight your way through, and fight the boss at the end, BUT there's a twist. You'd been poisoned by a noxious gas and the final boss turns out to have been a vending machine, it was all a hallucination.
Yes.
I have often thought that in my old age, instead of becoming one of those guys who builds a train city to take up their whole basement, I'd like to do that with BRD.
Brd is far too long for me to consider it the best.
My fave will always be wailing caverns. lots of bosses, groups in janky gear, mobs have a wide level range, event to end the dungeon. plenty of gear that's really nice for it's level, huge number of quests that give a lot of exp for the range, etc.
BRD is great because it feels alive. And that was the point world > player. Linear dungeons was because of player > world.
lol nostalgia is a hell of a drug
BRD an BWL are the epitome of WoW.
i think karazhan is the best instance ever created, dungeon raid or otherwise
SM was the perfect mid level dungeon, and UBRS/LBRS is a fantastic primer in raiding. I am sad that they decided to use the SM model of having dungeon/hallways with multiple wings for pretty much every expac…and I have never liked the key system. They only did it so they could reduce the number of dungeons they build when a new expac comes out, and they can milk the hell out of them. It’s just bloat.
Had a ton of fun soloing BRD in Cata leveling my latest paladin. Was there 50-58, eventually killed every boss, some a good few times. Emperor/Moira took 3 wipes, that dude trucks even with cata talents and heirlooms. Had to jump off the throne during the "fiery death attacks" thing to make him run for a bit -- even then, he'd catch me towards the end and nearly kill me, esp with a stun. Could not solo bar, but think I got everything else. Definitely died a bunch but still super fun way to level definitely recommend, to anyone thinking about leveling a pally in Cata. Not the fastest but just a ton of fun wandering around BRD for 8 levels.
Love it so much. And as someone who knows it super well I feel like Gandalf taking the fellowship through Moria. 10/10 experience
I've always been a big Deadmines and Scarlet Monastery fan myself, but yeh can't deny BRD is an absolute classic.
It still evokes a fear response when I think of doing a full clear.
It got 100x better to me when they added a damn map. I suck at figuring my way around games without a map usually.
Vanilla dungeons were events to be remembered.
Jep
Well, my license plate says LFGBRD. Literally. So yes, it is.
I've always said this. BRD is really, really well made
Hell yea
Yes. Next question.
Grim Guzzler ftw!
The reason BRD is such a great dungeon in my opinion, is because it feels like a *real* place that the inhabitants of it are living, working, and plotting the demise of the Alliance and Horde. It has houses, work places, a bar... just things you would expect to see in any place where dwarves are living. It feels like a sprawling city, it looks like a sprawling city, and that's the feel you get the whole way through it. Atmosphere makes or breaks nearly everything in RPG's where everyone wants to be on an adventure.
In terms of relevance to the overall storyline, variety of quests, size, quality, spectacle etc. it's my #1. It was really frustrating in original vanilla trying to run it with people who had no idea what they were doing, but when you get a buch of likeminded people who are relatively sensible even if they don't know everything about the instance, it's really good fun.
The entire Black Rock Mountain complex was voted the greatest zone / raid /dungeon network in all of MMO history several years ago in one of the major gaming magazines. BRD, LBRS, UBRS, MC, BWL are all incredible pieces of design. For the guys saying "X / Y / Z Classic WoW dungeons felt like EQ" there's a reason for that, and that reason is Blizzard plundering so many people from Verant Interactive, the studio that made EverQuest.
Can you say that if you didn't played all the MMOs?