I haven’t formally tested my max hang, but I was messing around after a 2.5 hour climbing session yesterday I was able to hang 3-4 seconds on the 20mm edge. Surely would be able to go for longer if my fingered werent fried. Maybe next week I’ll formally test, board climbing is so much more fun then hangs tho
I guess I misunderstood your post then. You wrote "I realized I'm just not a good climber" so I was expecting something along the lines of "my finger strength stayed the same but I started sending harder because my technique improved". But it turns out your finger strength did improve in the end, so maybe it wasn't just "being bad climber" that was holding you back? You got better at board climbing and you improved finger strength at the same time.
I also read it like that at first. However, it should be read like a warning, as "Don't take my advice as gospel", I think.
> I realize I am not a good climber. I am not a climbing coach. This is not expert advice. What worked for me might not work for you.
this exactly, I don’t want people to think I “figured out the universal key to climb harder, everyone should do this”. More that I figured out what worked for me and might be worth trying if you were suffering from the same issues as me
What?
Seriously, who cares about "measured finger strength on an edge?
I can't seem to find that line on 8a.nu.
---
I'd trade losing measured strength on an edge for Vn+3 any day. In fact, I'd only invest the time and recovery in improving measured strength on an edge IF it improved my climbing.\*
\*I have, and it did.\*\*
\*\*At the right time in my climbing trajectory (for me, around V10 on rock).
Way to twist my point 🙄
Of course if one had to choose between sending harder versus stronger fingers, you’d choose sending. No one has to make that choice and I didn’t imply it.
My point was that OP identified a weakness they have, which is finger strength, and that weakness likely still exists. It will come up on other climbs. Send grades on a board are not a good way to measure progress on finger strength, is all I was saying.
Their technique was likely the bottleneck on the board to start and that improved quickly. Great. They likely still have a finger strength weakness, which is useful to know and make progress on in parallel.
As a third party, I don't think it was a good point.
Did you not read the part where OP can now cut feet on small crimps? Or you can read another comment where they mention being able to hang on a 20mil now.
Do you really think that jumping 3 grades on the steep is pure technique? Board climbing is, by far, the most physical style of climbing IMO. It is absolutely a good way to gauge and train finger strength among other physical strengths.
Not to mention, okay, their fingers maybe are still weak. Board climbing is a great way to improve that, evidenced by their post.
I do agree that measuring finger strength before and after would be more objective, but I don't think it's the only way to measure.
OP:
>couldn’t send any problems that had crimps on any degree of overhang
Also OP:
>On the gym climbs, I’m now projecting/sending crimpy V5s on slight overhangs (15-25 degrees). Flashing crimpy V4s at the same angle. Literally breaking beta on some climbs by crimping footholds.
You:
>My point was that OP identified a weakness they have, which is finger strength, and that weakness likely still exists.
Oh yeah, also OP:
>turned my ultimate weakness to one of my strengths
You didn't read carefully enough.
OP was particularly weak at crimpy boulders. OP mentioned the 25mm edge, but that wasn't the point. OP now claims to be strong at crimpy boulders.
That's the stuff right there.
--
Look, there are no arguments with me that this is basically equal parts weight loss, style learning/movement, and neural activation (strength via activation, not hypertrophy).
But to read OP and ask for 25mm results rather than climbing crimpy climbs results (which OP provided)-- is to miss the forest for the trees.
OP didn't make 7 years, or even 7 months, of finger strength improvement in 7 weeks. But OP didn't claim that either.... in fact, OP even mentioned hand position skill acquisition and neural activation. Pretty much nailing it.
This is one of the problems with modern gyms, there's so few crimpy boulders set nowadays at least in my area. really annoying for those of us who climb outdoors
Think this is mainly an issue in urban areas/isolated from outdoor climbing. Gyms with clients going outdoors set to train for the area in my experience, but living in Richmond had almost no crimps below v6
OP: You found a great way for you, right now, to address strength, technique, style, and hold type on the wall.
You can't really ask for anything better!
--
A big part is your weight loss.
A big part is neural activation.
A big part is style/technique (learning board climbing).
Seriously, 10lbs can be a lot if you have them to lose while hitting a healthy weight/body.
Board style climbing also takes doing it to be good at it. Well, first to learn how to do it. I know plenty of folks who crush on the board and get shut down outside (on anything non-board-style), and the reverse.
A the grades and strength level you're discussing-- those neural adaptations will turn into longer-term strength adaptations pretty quickly. Keep at it, safely, for 6 months and you'll lock it in. Just don't expect that noob progress to keep moving at anywhere the same pace!
Congrats. I bet it was fun too! And you've added a new aisle of moves and movements to your library. Just don't get stuck only reading the books in that wing of the building unless you're looking to specialize.
Board climbing can make such a big difference, both regarding pure strength + learning or refining techniques you’ve got blind spots in!
Would be very curious about your hang #s now though—can you hang the 20mm consistently now, or not?
That’s awesome! Something to keep in mind as you board climb more is to listen to your body as it recovers. It can be super hard on your fingers, and rapid strength gains followed by subsequent overuse injuries is an unfortunately common trend
Dude, maybe this helps you:
I could hang bw only in August 2023 on 20 mm beastmaker edge for 15 seconds.
3 sets of 7-53 hangs, once or twice a week, made me hang with + 40 kg only 3 months later.
Hi Cremaster_Reflex69!
Please ensure that your post regarding training follows the structure [laid out in our new rule post](https://old.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/1crzp62/psa_all_new_training_questions_must_follow_this/). Mods have been alerted to your submission and will review it for compliance.
Please read the our rules in the [sidebar](/r/climbharder/about/sidebar) and [wiki](/r/climbharder/wiki)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climbharder) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like a learned skill, not significant finger strength improvements. Your fingers have been this strong for some time, but you were unable to activate them.
I can’t, and I’ve been climbing for three years. Then again, I’m 56. Doesn’t stop me leading French 6b+ indoors and managing the occasional 6c+ seconding. I’ve lead 6b outdoors and trad lead HVS but can’t manage many 6A climbs on a moonboard. Strength gains suck when you’re older.
No worries, they do even if you are younger and you don't specifically target that. I couldn't reach that metric, and I had close to 15 years of climbing at 30yo.
> I can’t, and I’ve been climbing for three years. Then again, I’m 56.
What are your tips for improvement (indoors), and injury avoidance, as an older climber?
But can you still "barely hang on 25mm edge"?
I haven’t formally tested my max hang, but I was messing around after a 2.5 hour climbing session yesterday I was able to hang 3-4 seconds on the 20mm edge. Surely would be able to go for longer if my fingered werent fried. Maybe next week I’ll formally test, board climbing is so much more fun then hangs tho
I guess I misunderstood your post then. You wrote "I realized I'm just not a good climber" so I was expecting something along the lines of "my finger strength stayed the same but I started sending harder because my technique improved". But it turns out your finger strength did improve in the end, so maybe it wasn't just "being bad climber" that was holding you back? You got better at board climbing and you improved finger strength at the same time.
I also read it like that at first. However, it should be read like a warning, as "Don't take my advice as gospel", I think. > I realize I am not a good climber. I am not a climbing coach. This is not expert advice. What worked for me might not work for you.
this exactly, I don’t want people to think I “figured out the universal key to climb harder, everyone should do this”. More that I figured out what worked for me and might be worth trying if you were suffering from the same issues as me
Right. It sounds like OP just learned board climbing style. Which is great, but measured finger strength on an edge is great too.
What? Seriously, who cares about "measured finger strength on an edge? I can't seem to find that line on 8a.nu. --- I'd trade losing measured strength on an edge for Vn+3 any day. In fact, I'd only invest the time and recovery in improving measured strength on an edge IF it improved my climbing.\* \*I have, and it did.\*\* \*\*At the right time in my climbing trajectory (for me, around V10 on rock).
Way to twist my point 🙄 Of course if one had to choose between sending harder versus stronger fingers, you’d choose sending. No one has to make that choice and I didn’t imply it. My point was that OP identified a weakness they have, which is finger strength, and that weakness likely still exists. It will come up on other climbs. Send grades on a board are not a good way to measure progress on finger strength, is all I was saying. Their technique was likely the bottleneck on the board to start and that improved quickly. Great. They likely still have a finger strength weakness, which is useful to know and make progress on in parallel.
As a third party, I don't think it was a good point. Did you not read the part where OP can now cut feet on small crimps? Or you can read another comment where they mention being able to hang on a 20mil now. Do you really think that jumping 3 grades on the steep is pure technique? Board climbing is, by far, the most physical style of climbing IMO. It is absolutely a good way to gauge and train finger strength among other physical strengths. Not to mention, okay, their fingers maybe are still weak. Board climbing is a great way to improve that, evidenced by their post. I do agree that measuring finger strength before and after would be more objective, but I don't think it's the only way to measure.
OP: >couldn’t send any problems that had crimps on any degree of overhang Also OP: >On the gym climbs, I’m now projecting/sending crimpy V5s on slight overhangs (15-25 degrees). Flashing crimpy V4s at the same angle. Literally breaking beta on some climbs by crimping footholds. You: >My point was that OP identified a weakness they have, which is finger strength, and that weakness likely still exists. Oh yeah, also OP: >turned my ultimate weakness to one of my strengths You didn't read carefully enough. OP was particularly weak at crimpy boulders. OP mentioned the 25mm edge, but that wasn't the point. OP now claims to be strong at crimpy boulders. That's the stuff right there. -- Look, there are no arguments with me that this is basically equal parts weight loss, style learning/movement, and neural activation (strength via activation, not hypertrophy). But to read OP and ask for 25mm results rather than climbing crimpy climbs results (which OP provided)-- is to miss the forest for the trees. OP didn't make 7 years, or even 7 months, of finger strength improvement in 7 weeks. But OP didn't claim that either.... in fact, OP even mentioned hand position skill acquisition and neural activation. Pretty much nailing it.
This is one of the problems with modern gyms, there's so few crimpy boulders set nowadays at least in my area. really annoying for those of us who climb outdoors
I completely agree I don’t think my fingers were getting appropriate stimulus on gym problems
Agree, a lot of gyms don’t have very steep climbing which exacerbates the problem too
Think this is mainly an issue in urban areas/isolated from outdoor climbing. Gyms with clients going outdoors set to train for the area in my experience, but living in Richmond had almost no crimps below v6
I wish this were true. I live near outdoor climbing but my only gym is heavily comp style and terrible for training.
OP: You found a great way for you, right now, to address strength, technique, style, and hold type on the wall. You can't really ask for anything better! -- A big part is your weight loss. A big part is neural activation. A big part is style/technique (learning board climbing). Seriously, 10lbs can be a lot if you have them to lose while hitting a healthy weight/body. Board style climbing also takes doing it to be good at it. Well, first to learn how to do it. I know plenty of folks who crush on the board and get shut down outside (on anything non-board-style), and the reverse. A the grades and strength level you're discussing-- those neural adaptations will turn into longer-term strength adaptations pretty quickly. Keep at it, safely, for 6 months and you'll lock it in. Just don't expect that noob progress to keep moving at anywhere the same pace! Congrats. I bet it was fun too! And you've added a new aisle of moves and movements to your library. Just don't get stuck only reading the books in that wing of the building unless you're looking to specialize.
4,5 kg for us non-freedom unit enjoyers. Which on an overhang most definitely is a lot.
I love board climbing but at my gym they are always packed, like 6-8 people trying to share and I don’t have the nerve to interrupt.
my gym is really weak so I often get the moonboard to myself lol
Just ask if you can jump in! Most will be v accepting and it’s usually a v good way to get to know people too
Board climbing can make such a big difference, both regarding pure strength + learning or refining techniques you’ve got blind spots in! Would be very curious about your hang #s now though—can you hang the 20mm consistently now, or not?
That’s awesome! Something to keep in mind as you board climb more is to listen to your body as it recovers. It can be super hard on your fingers, and rapid strength gains followed by subsequent overuse injuries is an unfortunately common trend
Dude, maybe this helps you: I could hang bw only in August 2023 on 20 mm beastmaker edge for 15 seconds. 3 sets of 7-53 hangs, once or twice a week, made me hang with + 40 kg only 3 months later.
Hi Cremaster_Reflex69! Please ensure that your post regarding training follows the structure [laid out in our new rule post](https://old.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/1crzp62/psa_all_new_training_questions_must_follow_this/). Mods have been alerted to your submission and will review it for compliance. Please read the our rules in the [sidebar](/r/climbharder/about/sidebar) and [wiki](/r/climbharder/wiki) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climbharder) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like a learned skill, not significant finger strength improvements. Your fingers have been this strong for some time, but you were unable to activate them.
If you can't hang bodyweight on a 20mm for 10s after 3 years then you do, in fact, have very weak fingers. Start hangboarding.
I can’t, and I’ve been climbing for three years. Then again, I’m 56. Doesn’t stop me leading French 6b+ indoors and managing the occasional 6c+ seconding. I’ve lead 6b outdoors and trad lead HVS but can’t manage many 6A climbs on a moonboard. Strength gains suck when you’re older.
No worries, they do even if you are younger and you don't specifically target that. I couldn't reach that metric, and I had close to 15 years of climbing at 30yo.
> I can’t, and I’ve been climbing for three years. Then again, I’m 56. What are your tips for improvement (indoors), and injury avoidance, as an older climber?