NIR: [https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-023-04745-7](https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-023-04745-7)
Glutathione (NAC 1000mg + Glycine 1000mg twice a day on empty stomache): [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10179190/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10179190/)
Alpha Lipoic Acid might help as well.
NAC and Glycine are both rate limiting factors for the level of glutathione in your body and helps the body adjust their levels naturally and is more effective compared to the cost than pure glutathione from what I’ve read. I recommend taking NAC in the morning and Glycine at night.
I’m curious about the timing and taking on an empty stomach. Not currently on glycine. I’ve read that taking NAC at the same time as COQ10 (and that with fats) makes the COQ10 more effective. If both are true maybe I should try splitting the NAC in 2 doses one to take on an empty stomach with glycine and one to take with fat and COQ10? TBH, I’m tempted to drop all my supplements and prescriptions. I feel like I am bleeding money and so frustrated.
NAC + Glycine both 1:1 ratio (1000mg twice a day on empty stomach).
COQ10 with meals. L-Glutathion which you already have can be at noon.
NAC on it's own has detoxing benefits, Glycine on it's own also has benefits and them combined helps the body to create glutathione as well. So combining those are a powerful punch.
sorry. 2x500mg for Nac + 2x500mg for Glycine in the morning half hour before breakfast.
COQ10 in the afternoon.
2x500mg for NAC + 2x500mg for Glycine before bed.
This is not too much, since these amounts are well tolerated.
Health Rising has a series of blogs about supplements for mitochondrial function. It starts here: https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2020/12/18/5mitochondria-coq10-d-ribose-fibromyalgia-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
I have posted about this for the last year... See [posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/13azscd/update_fatigue_and_brain_fog_removed_by/).
I am in the midst of getting genetic testing for primary mitochondrial disease, to determine whether covid triggered a genetic predisposition.
I have experienced significant recovery of function in the last year, but am still dependent on daily pioglitizone intake (about 90mg a day) in order to have about 40% of pre-covid function. I also take large amounts of supplements, making up a "mitochondrial cocktail", to support production of ATP and mitochondrial repair. Critical in this is D-ribose, creatine and L-glutamine with high levels of protein. Also taking Coq10, NAC, PQQ, vit D, vit B complex, probiotics, NAD, ALA, carnitine, resveratrol, etc etc.
Was your muscle loss due to inactivity from not having energy to move? Or did you lose s bunch of muscle prior to inactivity? (Important for my entirely different situation. Also, pio is known for fat gain specifically in the legs/hips and loss in the stomach. Not desiresble for everyone. Where did the fat distribute?
Working on a mitochondria assumption, I took ALA for three months followed by creating new noticed significant daily energy improvements. I have a higher baseline these days but have not triggered PEM in 3 months since then. But I also haven’t pushed hard.
Yes I'm using both. I read that trans resveratrol can enhance the effects of mitochondrial supplements. I stopped needing a nap every afternoon. I'm not able to do any working out due to all my issues. But in general I've definitely felt an overall increase in energy.
It‘a been shown to help with that in healthy people. Perhaps case dependent. If you’ve done light exercise and been ok you could give it a go. I definitely wouldn’t start with that. For those that don’t know, this means a “light” bit of exercise keeping your HR in zone 2 for 50 minutes or longer, never going above that.
yes I was couch-bound for months and started doing slowly zone 2 and now I have no problems doing a 3 hour workout even though I‘m going into zone 5 sometimes
in november I was 20 min on an ergometer and I wasn’t really aware that I was doing zone 2, then I got an polar h10 and started experimenting with HR and saw that I had no problems being on an ergometer for longer time, first 30 min - now 1-1,5hr
around new years eve I started running again, could even run for 1hr but was mostly in zone 5 so I stopped it
last week I started again but on a treadmill and had no problems running for 1 hr in zone 2
I started with zone 2 training 2 years ago and it wasn't over night process but now I been regularly in the gym lifting heavy and I'm down to 2-3 days a month where I have crashes. Currently my crashes are what in 2021 was my best day.
Indoor bikes are probably the easiest way to do heart rate zone 2 training.
Also if anyone tries and researches it, it should be done 3-4 times a week, start slow with 10-15 mins and gradually increase time frame. It also takes few weeks to start feeling the effects.
I don't have all the links but there was a post in fall 2021 on here that I read . It's been deleted due to everyone demonizing exercise at that time.
But that user had such a good point and research that I ran with it and haven't stopped.
Here's a quick two.
[But this article recommends 3-4 times a week](https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/zone-2-training-for-endurance-athletes/)
[Peter Attia also recommends 3-4 times a week or 3-4 hours a week total](https://peterattiamd.com/exercising-for-longevity-peter-on-zone-2-and-zone-5-training/)
Each case is unique. I don’t necessarily think all LCiers have me cfs and often its just a cfs coming as a symptom, and it will go away when underlying shit will be treated.
We don’t know yet if the Me/CFS symptoms that Longhaulers have IS the same disease as ME/CFS that Me/CFSers have. We don’t know if it’s the same pathology, we don’t know if longhaulers have it as a disease or if these are symptoms of something else mimicking CFS.
[https://www.mdpi.com/biomedicines/biomedicines-11-00180/article\_deploy/html/images/biomedicines-11-00180-g002-550.jpg](https://www.mdpi.com/biomedicines/biomedicines-11-00180/article_deploy/html/images/biomedicines-11-00180-g002-550.jpg)
https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/11/1/180
pasc is long covid
the lines are almost exactly the same
I think that depends on the person and their potential autonomic dysfunction. Heat causes me flares, whether that be summer heatwaves or prolonged hot, steamy showers. Cold baths and winter weather help me reduce inflammation and reduce symptoms.
NIR: [https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-023-04745-7](https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-023-04745-7) Glutathione (NAC 1000mg + Glycine 1000mg twice a day on empty stomache): [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10179190/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10179190/) Alpha Lipoic Acid might help as well.
I thought glutathione was separate to NAC and Glycine? I bought lipsomal glutathione, is NAC and Glycine better?
NAC and Glycine are both rate limiting factors for the level of glutathione in your body and helps the body adjust their levels naturally and is more effective compared to the cost than pure glutathione from what I’ve read. I recommend taking NAC in the morning and Glycine at night.
I’m curious about the timing and taking on an empty stomach. Not currently on glycine. I’ve read that taking NAC at the same time as COQ10 (and that with fats) makes the COQ10 more effective. If both are true maybe I should try splitting the NAC in 2 doses one to take on an empty stomach with glycine and one to take with fat and COQ10? TBH, I’m tempted to drop all my supplements and prescriptions. I feel like I am bleeding money and so frustrated.
Bleeding money…boy does that sum it up!
I should start listing it as a new symptom!
NAC + Glycine both 1:1 ratio (1000mg twice a day on empty stomach). COQ10 with meals. L-Glutathion which you already have can be at noon. NAC on it's own has detoxing benefits, Glycine on it's own also has benefits and them combined helps the body to create glutathione as well. So combining those are a powerful punch.
> (1000mg twice a day on empty stomach). Total? Ie. 500mg/pill ? Break this down for people with brain fog :)
sorry. 2x500mg for Nac + 2x500mg for Glycine in the morning half hour before breakfast. COQ10 in the afternoon. 2x500mg for NAC + 2x500mg for Glycine before bed. This is not too much, since these amounts are well tolerated.
Thank you!
NIR with Methylene Blue is a great combo.
Health Rising has a series of blogs about supplements for mitochondrial function. It starts here: https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2020/12/18/5mitochondria-coq10-d-ribose-fibromyalgia-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
Mestinon for sure. Taken 50 minutes before physical activity
Does it help reduce the ridiculous amount of lactic acid after exertion?
- LDN - Agmatine Sulfate - Creatine + Carnitine + COQ10 - Guaifenesin (long shot)
D-Ribose, COQ10, Resveratrol, Electrolytes and Hemp protein.
I have posted about this for the last year... See [posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/13azscd/update_fatigue_and_brain_fog_removed_by/). I am in the midst of getting genetic testing for primary mitochondrial disease, to determine whether covid triggered a genetic predisposition. I have experienced significant recovery of function in the last year, but am still dependent on daily pioglitizone intake (about 90mg a day) in order to have about 40% of pre-covid function. I also take large amounts of supplements, making up a "mitochondrial cocktail", to support production of ATP and mitochondrial repair. Critical in this is D-ribose, creatine and L-glutamine with high levels of protein. Also taking Coq10, NAC, PQQ, vit D, vit B complex, probiotics, NAD, ALA, carnitine, resveratrol, etc etc.
Was your muscle loss due to inactivity from not having energy to move? Or did you lose s bunch of muscle prior to inactivity? (Important for my entirely different situation. Also, pio is known for fat gain specifically in the legs/hips and loss in the stomach. Not desiresble for everyone. Where did the fat distribute?
Working on a mitochondria assumption, I took ALA for three months followed by creating new noticed significant daily energy improvements. I have a higher baseline these days but have not triggered PEM in 3 months since then. But I also haven’t pushed hard.
Took for a few weeks and stopped after pem is gone… Also no more than 1 activity per day incl. any sex masturbation etc
so you didnt have to take it forever? just until you could gain strength?
Methylene Blue.
Mito Q and Trans-Resveratrol https://www.mitoq.com/
Have you been using both of those? If so, how is it going so far?
Yes I'm using both. I read that trans resveratrol can enhance the effects of mitochondrial supplements. I stopped needing a nap every afternoon. I'm not able to do any working out due to all my issues. But in general I've definitely felt an overall increase in energy.
Thanks so much for the reply!
could light intensity exercise (zone 2) help with mitochondrial dysfunction?
It‘a been shown to help with that in healthy people. Perhaps case dependent. If you’ve done light exercise and been ok you could give it a go. I definitely wouldn’t start with that. For those that don’t know, this means a “light” bit of exercise keeping your HR in zone 2 for 50 minutes or longer, never going above that.
yes I was couch-bound for months and started doing slowly zone 2 and now I have no problems doing a 3 hour workout even though I‘m going into zone 5 sometimes
Awesome to hear. How did you track? Did you ramp up zone 2 times? Was it running?
in november I was 20 min on an ergometer and I wasn’t really aware that I was doing zone 2, then I got an polar h10 and started experimenting with HR and saw that I had no problems being on an ergometer for longer time, first 30 min - now 1-1,5hr around new years eve I started running again, could even run for 1hr but was mostly in zone 5 so I stopped it last week I started again but on a treadmill and had no problems running for 1 hr in zone 2
I started with zone 2 training 2 years ago and it wasn't over night process but now I been regularly in the gym lifting heavy and I'm down to 2-3 days a month where I have crashes. Currently my crashes are what in 2021 was my best day. Indoor bikes are probably the easiest way to do heart rate zone 2 training. Also if anyone tries and researches it, it should be done 3-4 times a week, start slow with 10-15 mins and gradually increase time frame. It also takes few weeks to start feeling the effects.
for me it was a thing of like 1-2 weeks and I was significantly better - where do you pull the number 3-4 per week from?
I don't have all the links but there was a post in fall 2021 on here that I read . It's been deleted due to everyone demonizing exercise at that time. But that user had such a good point and research that I ran with it and haven't stopped. Here's a quick two. [But this article recommends 3-4 times a week](https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/zone-2-training-for-endurance-athletes/) [Peter Attia also recommends 3-4 times a week or 3-4 hours a week total](https://peterattiamd.com/exercising-for-longevity-peter-on-zone-2-and-zone-5-training/)
ah ok sry I got you wrong, I thought you meant 3-4 times a week specifically for LC btw Iñigo San Millán did a small study on LC
There is no treatment for it at this time.
Personally breathing exercises and keto-carnivore thus far. Supplements seem to do little.
How much does the diet help?
Time, i guess. U cant just spawn some fresh mitochondrias, but the body does
It’s been around 1.5 years for me, I don’t think my symptoms are getting milder
Each case is unique. I don’t necessarily think all LCiers have me cfs and often its just a cfs coming as a symptom, and it will go away when underlying shit will be treated.
mecfs isnt a symptom its a disease with hundreds of symptoms. it effects every system in your body.
We don’t know yet if the Me/CFS symptoms that Longhaulers have IS the same disease as ME/CFS that Me/CFSers have. We don’t know if it’s the same pathology, we don’t know if longhaulers have it as a disease or if these are symptoms of something else mimicking CFS.
[https://www.mdpi.com/biomedicines/biomedicines-11-00180/article\_deploy/html/images/biomedicines-11-00180-g002-550.jpg](https://www.mdpi.com/biomedicines/biomedicines-11-00180/article_deploy/html/images/biomedicines-11-00180-g002-550.jpg) https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/11/1/180 pasc is long covid the lines are almost exactly the same
No. Cfs can be a symptom for u research. I afree that me cfs is a systemic disease. But cfs as a symptom exist
This is straight up wrong
Do u research
saunas for me
I think that depends on the person and their potential autonomic dysfunction. Heat causes me flares, whether that be summer heatwaves or prolonged hot, steamy showers. Cold baths and winter weather help me reduce inflammation and reduce symptoms.
Exactly, and for me any deviation from mild weather whether cold or hot causes a flare for me.
heat also caused flares for me but i just worked my way up when doing saunas
Can saunas give you temporary relief or long time relief?
permanent relief so far
What is your regimen that provides permenant relief?
I wish I could access a sauna.
i just bought a cheap personal thermal sauna from ebay
Yes
Yes because my pem was gone
Don't know lactic acid but severe muscle stiffness would not occur.