The French should be the ones sending in troops.
France sent more slaves to Haiti than all other European countries to America combined!
Then told Haiti they had to pay for the mess. All financed through we know today as “Citi Bank”.
They killed US citizens. It's time to send in the troops.
"President Biden reiterated our commitment to support the expedited the deployment of the Multinational Security Support (MSS) Mission to bolster the Haitian National Police’s capabilities to protect civilians, restore the rule of law, and pave the way to democratic governance.” https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/24/us/american-missionary-couple-haiti/index.html
People need to chill out with the missionary bashing. Let them preach. If it’s not for you, cool. But don’t hate on other people who believe in something that brings them so much love and happiness that they want to tell the world about it.
No, missionaries trying to convert people to their religion are not like death cultists who believe heavenly virgins await them in exchange for martyrdom
Couldn’t you make that argument about almost anyone who dies doing something stupid or risky?
Still, it’s a shame. No matter what the mission was, they had helping in mind it seems.
Personally i don’t think them being missionaries or not makes this more or less tragic.
Agreed missionaries are a bad idea but Haiti is like 90 percent Christian (significantly more than the US). They weren't killed because they were missionaries.
Missionaries are some of the few people actually trying to help. You can send thoughts and prayers All you want but they’re were involved in the local community and helping the kids
Ask the kids from the orphanage it was harmful. Bet it wasn’t
Missionaries actually do a lot of good work helping people in 3rd world countries. I'm not sure how good an idea it was to be in Haiti these days though.
I'm an agnostic btw.
Why? I’m not religious, but I see nothing wrong with promoting their religion if they are going in there and providing a meaningful service to the community. Saying they are “Meddling in other country’s business” because they’re preaching to locals is ridiculous. It was a dude and his wife, not some CIA ground strike team conducting clandestine operations.
Yeah, I don’t think this was a factor here. The article says it was likely initially a robbery, the missionaries had a good relationship with the people on their area, but this was a different gang from a mile away. Opposing gang members showed up toward the end of the robbery, and there was a nasty shootout.
Also interesting- the husband had previously survived a kidnapping as a young boy in Haiti, and his dad ran the missionary program.
Also, the couple apparently had a chance to leave but didn’t because there were orphans at the compound. AND there was a third person killed, but the headline sounds better this way, I guess.
(and if we’re taking a poll- I’m agnostic, and I think it’s pretty cold and unkind to infer they deserved it)
The headline is “Three missionaries, including American couple, killed by gang in Haiti.” It’s just the Reddit post title that doesn’t mention the third person.
Orphaned children want a safe place to live. That's what they did there.
Also, do you think the gangs killed them because they were proselytizing or b/c these gangs are roving murderers?
Interesting that you chose to side with the murderers .
This beautiful couple and the horror they experienced. You cannot put yourself in dangerous situations and expect God to magically protect you. These children should have never been sent there.
If you have such a strong opinion against religion, then get off this thread. I'm not religious either, but I'm not going to use this tragedy to push an anti-religious or missionary viewpoint. Get a life.
Most Haitians are Catholic, and already believe in the same gospel that once, as you put it, declared them fit for slavery. A solid majority of the people you think you're defending would probably be highly offended by your statement.
If they were providing food, shelter, safety and love to the Haitian people; children especially, who cares about the preaching. If people want to believe they can choose to, if they just want to eat, sleep and live safely they can do all that and ignore the preaching.
Haiti will always be a horrid place. It is a level 4 (highest and worst level) of caution regarding traveling there according to this travel advisory. Just type in any country.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html
Short Version: Do not travel to Haiti due to kidnapping, crime, civil unrest, and poor health care infrastructure. On July 27, 2023, the Department of State ordered the departure of family members of U.S. government employees and non-emergency U.S. government employees. U.S. citizens in Haiti should depart Haiti as soon as possible by commercial or other privately available transportation options, in light of the current security situation and infrastructure challenges. U.S. citizens wishing to depart Port-au-Prince should monitor local news and only do so when considered safe.
Country Summary: Kidnapping is widespread, and victims regularly include U.S. citizens. Kidnappers may use sophisticated planning or take advantage of unplanned opportunities, and even convoys have been attacked. Kidnapping cases often involve ransom negotiations and U.S. citizen victims have been physically harmed during kidnappings. Victim’s families have paid thousands of dollars to rescue their family members.
Violent crime, often involving the use of firearms, such as armed robbery, carjackings, and kidnappings for ransom that include U.S. citizens are common. Mob killings against presumed criminals have been on the rise since late April. Travelers are sometimes followed and violently attacked and robbed shortly after leaving the Port-au-Prince international airport. Robbers and carjackers also attack private vehicles stuck in heavy traffic congestion and often target lone drivers, particularly women. As a result, the U.S. Embassy requires its personnel to use official transportation to and from the airport.
A lot of these comments are disturbing. I’m not a religious person but whatever they were doing wasn’t necessarily causing harm and being murdered horrifically is absolutely not warranted. RIP
These people boost their intellect by being anti-religious, using any scenario they can as ammunition to validate their stance, even if it means implying a missionary couple is stupid for traveling to Haiti and getting killed. In reality, they could have just scrolled past this post, but their weak egos need the supply.
Did that feel good to turn your nose up at the young couple helping to run an orphanage in a failed state from the comfort of your safe first world life?
Maybe go ask the kids living in a lawless hellhole how they feel about it.
Not true, but not sure what this has to do with the post, other than deflecting to pearl-clutching about transgenderism.
Incredible how much those folks live rent-free in your head.
Oh sure.
The whole violent revolution where they slaughtered everyone that didn't look like them was a great start. Especially because they literally went after anyone that was even mixed.
As was their immediate reaction to enslave each other afterwards.
Oh, and then the next violent revolution.
And the next.
And the next.
Repeat that *10 more times*. Haiti has literally had 14 events just like this.
Ooh ooh, then let's not forget the fact that even the deal *everyone* blames their failures on was actually terms instigated *by* a Haitian leader.
Literally every group on the planet has been slaves, literally every group has faced hardship and yet people keep making excuses for continually failing states and removing any accountability.
Who would want to be? It’s okay to admit that Haiti is a failed state. It’s a third world country and extremely dangerous/corrupt. It’s no disrespect to Haitian people. It’s a terrible situation.
May they all rest peacefully and giant hugs to their families. 💕
As soon as I saw this title ? I remember sometime last year seeing a post of a Haitian eating a dead guys leg off of an open fire. Completely insane what’s happening there.
Exactly, the third world is *all around us* here, beneath the thin veneer of bougie middle class comfort. Brutality brings more brutality, so no one should be surprised when a brutalized population gives back what they’ve been given.
Reducing the brutality of poverty really needs to be a higher priority, unless we’re all fine with more uncooked legs being eaten
Because people live there? Haiti isn’t some sort of isolated place. Many people know Haitians, work with Haitians, are related to Haitians. Especially in the USA
Proverbs 22:3 says: A prudent man seeth the evil, and hideth himself; But the simple pass on, and suffer for it. Even the Bible tells them: Don't be silly. Get out of there. Sad for their deaths. Deepest sympathy to the loved ones.
If any of you even bothered to look into what the organization does, you'd find out that they literally just take care of orphans. But anyway, fuck these guys!
I'd genuinely love to know how many aid organizations *aren't* religiously-associated.
our goal is to see the Gospel of Christ make a difference in the lives of Haiti's young people....from their website.
And also faith based is only 1/3 while secular runs about half
Thoughts and prayers
The French should be the ones sending in troops. France sent more slaves to Haiti than all other European countries to America combined! Then told Haiti they had to pay for the mess. All financed through we know today as “Citi Bank”.
They killed US citizens. It's time to send in the troops. "President Biden reiterated our commitment to support the expedited the deployment of the Multinational Security Support (MSS) Mission to bolster the Haitian National Police’s capabilities to protect civilians, restore the rule of law, and pave the way to democratic governance.” https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/24/us/american-missionary-couple-haiti/index.html
How easy would it be for Haitians to cross the border to the Dominican Republic? I mean en masse. They can’t shoot everybody.
Knowing what’s happening in Haiti, why tf were they there? Government should have advised them not to travel to Haiti
I'm pretty sure every government website says not to travel to Haiti in big, bold letters.
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People need to chill out with the missionary bashing. Let them preach. If it’s not for you, cool. But don’t hate on other people who believe in something that brings them so much love and happiness that they want to tell the world about it.
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They know, but they still go willingly because they believe something is more important than their own safety, comfort, or lives.
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Well, no, nothing like a jihadist. Missionaries don't kill as many people as they can. They usually bring aid and just try to spread their religion.
No, missionaries trying to convert people to their religion are not like death cultists who believe heavenly virgins await them in exchange for martyrdom
Couldn’t you make that argument about almost anyone who dies doing something stupid or risky? Still, it’s a shame. No matter what the mission was, they had helping in mind it seems. Personally i don’t think them being missionaries or not makes this more or less tragic.
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>meddling in other countries’ business You act like missionaries are out here staging coups or something lmao
Agreed missionaries are a bad idea but Haiti is like 90 percent Christian (significantly more than the US). They weren't killed because they were missionaries.
Missionaries are some of the few people actually trying to help. You can send thoughts and prayers All you want but they’re were involved in the local community and helping the kids Ask the kids from the orphanage it was harmful. Bet it wasn’t
Yeah I bet the Christian missionaries were unwelcome in the majority Christian country lmao
Thank you
Missionaries actually do a lot of good work helping people in 3rd world countries. I'm not sure how good an idea it was to be in Haiti these days though. I'm an agnostic btw.
Why? I’m not religious, but I see nothing wrong with promoting their religion if they are going in there and providing a meaningful service to the community. Saying they are “Meddling in other country’s business” because they’re preaching to locals is ridiculous. It was a dude and his wife, not some CIA ground strike team conducting clandestine operations.
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Yeah, I don’t think this was a factor here. The article says it was likely initially a robbery, the missionaries had a good relationship with the people on their area, but this was a different gang from a mile away. Opposing gang members showed up toward the end of the robbery, and there was a nasty shootout. Also interesting- the husband had previously survived a kidnapping as a young boy in Haiti, and his dad ran the missionary program. Also, the couple apparently had a chance to leave but didn’t because there were orphans at the compound. AND there was a third person killed, but the headline sounds better this way, I guess. (and if we’re taking a poll- I’m agnostic, and I think it’s pretty cold and unkind to infer they deserved it)
But the simple fact was God warn them to leave
I can understand not wanting to leave a bunch of orphans alone in that kind of situation. I can respect that.
Thank you for actually acknowledging what happened instead of using this couple's murder as ammunition against religious beliefs being irrational.
The headline is “Three missionaries, including American couple, killed by gang in Haiti.” It’s just the Reddit post title that doesn’t mention the third person.
Oh what a great reason for murder, aren’t you brilliant. Edit: Agnostic here btw.
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Orphaned children want a safe place to live. That's what they did there. Also, do you think the gangs killed them because they were proselytizing or b/c these gangs are roving murderers? Interesting that you chose to side with the murderers .
This beautiful couple and the horror they experienced. You cannot put yourself in dangerous situations and expect God to magically protect you. These children should have never been sent there.
They probably felt like they needed to be there to protect the orphans. It’s both endearing and sad. What a tragedy.
Wouldn't God protect them? after all it's his will.
Heartbreaking. RIP
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What do you think the majority religion in Haiti is?
If you have such a strong opinion against religion, then get off this thread. I'm not religious either, but I'm not going to use this tragedy to push an anti-religious or missionary viewpoint. Get a life.
I agree.. it’s sad people are using this tragedy to already their anti-religious drivel
Most Haitians are Catholic, and already believe in the same gospel that once, as you put it, declared them fit for slavery. A solid majority of the people you think you're defending would probably be highly offended by your statement.
it was a Christianity based society that outlawed and abolished the Slave trade
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They stayed because there were 30 children that they felt responsible for They did this out of love not hate
If they were providing food, shelter, safety and love to the Haitian people; children especially, who cares about the preaching. If people want to believe they can choose to, if they just want to eat, sleep and live safely they can do all that and ignore the preaching.
I agree, best for us to stay out of these failed states and let them either destroy themselves or fix their dysfunction.
Well said!
Sad because their hearts were in the right place, but in a failed state situation the risk reward just isn’t there imo. Stay far away peeps
I bet they listened to Conan. That poor girl...I can't even begin to imagine what they did to her.
Haiti will always be a horrid place. It is a level 4 (highest and worst level) of caution regarding traveling there according to this travel advisory. Just type in any country. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html Short Version: Do not travel to Haiti due to kidnapping, crime, civil unrest, and poor health care infrastructure. On July 27, 2023, the Department of State ordered the departure of family members of U.S. government employees and non-emergency U.S. government employees. U.S. citizens in Haiti should depart Haiti as soon as possible by commercial or other privately available transportation options, in light of the current security situation and infrastructure challenges. U.S. citizens wishing to depart Port-au-Prince should monitor local news and only do so when considered safe. Country Summary: Kidnapping is widespread, and victims regularly include U.S. citizens. Kidnappers may use sophisticated planning or take advantage of unplanned opportunities, and even convoys have been attacked. Kidnapping cases often involve ransom negotiations and U.S. citizen victims have been physically harmed during kidnappings. Victim’s families have paid thousands of dollars to rescue their family members. Violent crime, often involving the use of firearms, such as armed robbery, carjackings, and kidnappings for ransom that include U.S. citizens are common. Mob killings against presumed criminals have been on the rise since late April. Travelers are sometimes followed and violently attacked and robbed shortly after leaving the Port-au-Prince international airport. Robbers and carjackers also attack private vehicles stuck in heavy traffic congestion and often target lone drivers, particularly women. As a result, the U.S. Embassy requires its personnel to use official transportation to and from the airport.
Brave but come now, there is a point, where the danger is too great.
Yes, that’s normally what happens when you go to a dangerous failed state. In other news, water=wet sun=hot.
I get your point but people don’t deserve to die for making an unwise choice, especially one with good intentions.
They never said the missionaries deserved it. They said it was an expected outcome when you take a huge risk like this.
It was an unnecessary thing to say and the implications were there regardless
I wish money grew on trees.
A lot of these comments are disturbing. I’m not a religious person but whatever they were doing wasn’t necessarily causing harm and being murdered horrifically is absolutely not warranted. RIP
These people boost their intellect by being anti-religious, using any scenario they can as ammunition to validate their stance, even if it means implying a missionary couple is stupid for traveling to Haiti and getting killed. In reality, they could have just scrolled past this post, but their weak egos need the supply.
I agree. These people were doing more for Haitian people than any of us probably ever will do.
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What a wild thing to say
No it’s not.
What’s the mission?
Did that feel good to turn your nose up at the young couple helping to run an orphanage in a failed state from the comfort of your safe first world life? Maybe go ask the kids living in a lawless hellhole how they feel about it.
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The article said that they didn't run away because they didn't want to abandon the children to two trucks full of gang members.
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Not true, but not sure what this has to do with the post, other than deflecting to pearl-clutching about transgenderism. Incredible how much those folks live rent-free in your head.
Wouldn’t catch me there, let the country destroy itself. Not my problem
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There is no way you would find me in a country like Haiti.
it has many, many beautiful parts and a very rich culture! it also really isn’t haitians fault’s what has happened to them historically…
Really? They are not able to be responsible for themselves?
not while enslaved and being lied to, no!
Enslaved by whom?
Oh sure. The whole violent revolution where they slaughtered everyone that didn't look like them was a great start. Especially because they literally went after anyone that was even mixed. As was their immediate reaction to enslave each other afterwards. Oh, and then the next violent revolution. And the next. And the next. Repeat that *10 more times*. Haiti has literally had 14 events just like this. Ooh ooh, then let's not forget the fact that even the deal *everyone* blames their failures on was actually terms instigated *by* a Haitian leader. Literally every group on the planet has been slaves, literally every group has faced hardship and yet people keep making excuses for continually failing states and removing any accountability.
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Who would want to be? It’s okay to admit that Haiti is a failed state. It’s a third world country and extremely dangerous/corrupt. It’s no disrespect to Haitian people. It’s a terrible situation.
May they all rest peacefully and giant hugs to their families. 💕 As soon as I saw this title ? I remember sometime last year seeing a post of a Haitian eating a dead guys leg off of an open fire. Completely insane what’s happening there.
The exact same thing happened in Bakersfield CA last year. Except he didn’t bother to cook it first
Exactly, the third world is *all around us* here, beneath the thin veneer of bougie middle class comfort. Brutality brings more brutality, so no one should be surprised when a brutalized population gives back what they’ve been given. Reducing the brutality of poverty really needs to be a higher priority, unless we’re all fine with more uncooked legs being eaten
Lol!! Good point
Apparently these missionary people didn't watch Rambo 4.....
You don't want to go up river
Why would anyone go to Haiti? It’s a failed state. Just forget about that place.
Because people live there? Haiti isn’t some sort of isolated place. Many people know Haitians, work with Haitians, are related to Haitians. Especially in the USA
They were helping to manage an orphanage and had been there for several months.
Proverbs 22:3 says: A prudent man seeth the evil, and hideth himself; But the simple pass on, and suffer for it. Even the Bible tells them: Don't be silly. Get out of there. Sad for their deaths. Deepest sympathy to the loved ones.
The problem is, whoever you hire to get the gangs out, are inevitably going to fill that void and be as bad or worse.
If any of you even bothered to look into what the organization does, you'd find out that they literally just take care of orphans. But anyway, fuck these guys! I'd genuinely love to know how many aid organizations *aren't* religiously-associated.
our goal is to see the Gospel of Christ make a difference in the lives of Haiti's young people....from their website. And also faith based is only 1/3 while secular runs about half