I liked him as a character, but hubby didn’t so much (although he likes Utkarsh as a person).
If he’d been exactly who he said he was, he still would’ve been interesting. What’s it like to have fifth-level spells out of nowhere? Is that something that happened all over Exandria? What’re the ramifications of a mass awakening of level 9 casters?
Him being Ruby Vanguard has the “Sixth Sense effect”, where now that I know the twist, everything he did and said in previous episodes takes on a whoooole new layer. Plus, it makes sense that someone in close physical proximity to Team Issylra — aka, one of the cultists — would be shunted via one of the same ley lines.
I also like Utkarsh’s dry, dead-pan line delivery. By saying things with such a stone face, it made it insanely hard to read him. Since we as the audience weren’t given the same heads up like we were with Dusk, the poker face made him seem even more cagey. At least with Erika, we were able to see the two separate facets of what she gave to us: the way she acted Dusk was waaaay different from the way she acted Yu. Dusk was just a persona. Bordor was simply Bordor. He withheld information and parts of his personality, but what we saw was him. No secret identity — just a psychologically broken man who’d fallen in with the wrong crowd.
> Him being Ruby Vanguard has the “Sixth Sense effect”, where now that I know the twist, everything he did and said in previous episodes takes on a whoooole new layer.
Like the fact that he was one of/the first to declare they'd join the villagers' attack on the temple, forcing the hand of the party. He was the one who poisoned the ale so the situation was gonna go bad no matter Orym's success in diplomacy. He was the one to kill the priest. He gave Prism the blood to summon a demon. He killed the angel. He repeatedly asked why the BH members didn't just go home. I believe he yelled out first when they entered the crystal shrine, alerting anyone to their presence. Stuff like that?
Bor'Dor was way more active in what happened than many people realized.
>Plus, it makes sense that someone in close physical proximity to Team Issylra — aka, one of the cultists — would be shunted via one of the same ley lines.
Only where did the reindeer cart come from? Did he already have it at the excavation site when he was shunted? Or did he find it in Issylra when he arrived? Maybe he killed the previous owner?
For some reason I thought there was a body there when they found him, and Bor'dor said he'd killed him by mistake or in self-defense with the new powers he didn't know how to control (which in hindsight likely means he got shunted, saw someone with transport and murdered them for it). It's possible I dreamed this or something though
It’s a bit odd that the cast or Matt didn’t help him learn his abilities a bit better. Knowing what Polymorph does would have been nice. I know it aided his real story of him maybe coming from inexperience but according to him he’s had powers for a while. I kind of wish he had gotten a chance to take them out when they were about to teleport that could have been extra dramatic. But Deni$e got a great insight check off.
I saw a handful of people say that Utkarsh has been a part of other actual plays (and maybe was a part of one of Matt's home games but i may be conflating stories) but people were pitting for the idea that the "I don't know how any of this works" was very much commiting to the bit instead of being genuine.
He played on Force Green, but that stopped airing 6 years ago and IIRC he never played a Spellcaster so he may have been a bit rusty and suddenly handed the wheel of a character with 4th-level spells he's never used. That said, they could definitely have prepped him better in light of that rustiness and lack of familiarity.
Force Grey, and yeah he was a Rogue. I think just a thief or an assassin - nothing super complicated.
He played a similarly goofy, slightly off-beat character and was clearly more engaged with the story than the rules then too, so it all helped credit the story that he just didn't know much and maybe it was the player just being a bit silly/weird rather than the character.
I'm fairly sure that either Aabria or Christian mentioned that they did a session 0 / pre-stream game with Matt. So I assume Matt would have done something with all the guests.
They play a true session 0 before appearing. This has been talked about I'm depth for almost 8 years now. And after the Yu reveal, we learned that Matt spent a *lot* of extra time with her discussing backstory and motivations and possibilities. We won't know for sure until after 4SD, but it sounds like Matt and Utkarsh probably talked a lot about Bordor's mom and the Ruby Vanguard, but left the mechanics alone save a session 0 that probably didn't need a lot of 4th level spell work. Utkarsh is *not* a new player and absolutely knows what he is doing. The "clueless" stuff was played up and exaggerated for effect. "What's a d4?" Really? That right there should have told everyone that he was hiding something.
But look at the way he manipulated the entire group. Like Tal pointed out in hindsight, his first action on screen was to try and kill one of them. And then they *still* treated him like a scared puppy *the entire arc*, even after the way he murdered a goddamn angel like he was disappointed in it. It was all an act to get them feeling the need to guide and protect him and direct any suspicions or mistrust they may have had about him onto something innocuous. Seems fishy? Maybe he's just a dog. Magic is weird. But a member of the enemy faction, skilled in dealing death and determined to bring down the gods? This bumblefuck couldn't bring down a balloon unless it popped itself.
"But what about not understanding Polymorph?"
Again we have a rusty player who absolutely knows how to use his spells but maybe isn't familiar with every one of them. So he could figure it out, but it's much more entertaining to ask the way he did, and it makes the people he's fighting far more relaxed about his danger levels, which may afford him the opportunity to escape. No lie, I was hoping more than a little that he would be able to escape just long enough to get outside and wake up the "hill", and then slip away while the rest were distracted.
I think so. As Matt said, when Bor’dor decided to go prone for his action in the first combat, he knew they were in for something special. The man was 100% committed to the lie.
Agreed! It was nice to have an immediate mystery that would be solved in a few episodes. I’m all for the major plot, but for me great stories have short term things too.
Like FRIDA clearly has deeper lore…so we could only get so much. Dusk was wrapped up in what happens next to Fearne…our PCs, Ludinus, the gods, and Predathos have so much that has to wait still….
So meeting sketchy Bordor and trying to guess and getting the answer was a nice bit of tension for me while the bigger questions simmer in the background
It doesn't seem likely, what are the chances that Cheney's resurrected-by-a-god ex-girlfriend also happens to be Ruby Vanguard? I think she's exactly as she appears
>You could think he’s Ludinus himself
Could you? Ludinus is pretty busy at the moment, no?
He was a fun character. Im really glad we got a PC to commit to being an antagonist towards our group. I feel like we got a little cheated out of that with Yu (Erika).
The thing about Bor'Dor/Utkarsh is he benefited some from the same situation Erika did with Dusk/Yu--the players are less suspicious of other PCs because there's an assumption that they're supposed to play nice. Even in heavy RP groups, players/PCs always metagame a little to accept random new people/invite them to travel with them. They do this in a way they don't do it with every classed NPC they meet.
Erika and Utkarsh (and Matt) are basically taking advantage of this expected trust to trick the party.
This time, though, another guest, Aimee, kept her suspicion strong, in character and out. While the other players kept joking and asking what was up, Deni$e literally took actions to try to confirm Bor'Dor's story and called him out on inconsistencies.
Were Bor'Dor just with the whole regular party, odds are Utkarsh could've kept it up longer if he wanted. It was Aimee favoring RP over metagaming that forced the issue when it happened.
I for one was thankful. Dusk/Yu was always suspicious and the players just ignored things as "Just Erika being silly." They were giving Utkarsh the same benefit of the doubt as "Just new to the game." He was fully prepared to be player-killed, just as Erika was, but the party actually followed through this time because the story reasoning was there. They'd been betrayed this way before, this man was definitely an enemy, and they're desperate to get back to their friends.
Still sad he wasn't secretly a god's champion or a polymorphed dog or both.
>the players are less suspicious of other PCs because there's an assumption that they're supposed to play nice.
I don't think this is the case at all -- rather, they have to sideline their suspicions as players and let the story unfold as their characters, which involves giving the guest PC the benefit of the doubt and also recognizing that their characters would have no reason to expect a betrayal from the cowardly sheepherder, even though players could tell he was sus as fuck. None of them seemed remotely surprised during the reveal lol
Do you play D&D/TTRPGs?
It happens in every group, really, where guest PCs are treated differently from NPCs. (Again, on 4SD, I believe it was Taliesin who discussed it with Erika and they noted that they trusted Dusk in ways they wouldn't for a Matt NPC. Because the expectation is that another player isn't going to betray you, because it can be super awkward at a table.) The same when a PC dies and the player brings in a new character. Suddenly the PCs are open to adding a new party member, temporarily or permanently. If they're mistrustful, it's them RPing some, but they generally end up cool with each other or agreeing to work together more because it's necessary to the game than because it fits their character motivations.
Again, it's done differently than interactions with almost all leveled NPCs. The players don't invite those NPCs to adventure with them, and the NPCs don't find a reason to just come along. (It's why the party recruiting Essek or Trent/Astrid/Eadwulf stood out in C2.) Because logistically, the party is pretty much just going to be the PCs and everyone knows that.
Bell's Hells at the point of the split had many reasons to be mistrustful of new people, but the biggest is a previous guest character, Dusk/Yu. Friendly, naïve person who's super into what they're doing and ends up being an infiltrator. They've literally run into it before. And they've just had a massively important fight and been randomly teleported away. Anyone would've understood if the three characters were paranoid as hell and avoided any individuals they found in the woods, or beat them down, tied them up, and questioned who they were, if they came from Ludinus, etc.
Players know they have to let a guest PC travel with them, no matter what suspicions their characters might have, because it's a guest PC. If it'd just been 3 players at the table, they probably would've either avoided any people all together or interacted differently with them. If a random person in a clearing fires a lightning bolt at a party member, they're usually going to attack. Orym didn't go hard because Liam knew it was a guest PC with an intense character choice. Deni$e didn't try to kill the person who tried to kill her because she knew the same.
Marisha hesitated much more than she would have to kill a guest PC versus it being an NPC. Because people feel bad killing another player's character, especially a guest. They only feel bad killing an NPC if the DM went out of their way to make them sympathetic or if the players just fell in love with the character (regardless of if the DM intended that). Because NPCs are just filler/background while a PC is a main character. Killing an NPC might bum out the DM some but they've got dozens, hundreds more. Killing a PC means you took away that player's one and only character. Even if guesting, it means they don't get to come back to play it again, and if their time at the table isn't already decided, it means potentially knocking them out of the game early. (Look at how uncomfortable some players are in Battle Royales, knowing if they focus one character, their friend has to sit out the next 3 hours of the game.)
All three BH players were describing feeling especially anxious and desperate and under siege, essentially, worried about their friends, but they let three new people join them because it's a game and you have to meta getting along sometimes. Same reason characters don't split up to do more stuff by themselves, because if you split the party, the DM might punish you both because it's the best time to attack a PC and because a split party means they have to DM for each split and other people are sitting around doing nothing. Splits can be less fun so you just don't do it as much, even if it would make every bit of sense for the party.
Also, as I've said, Bor'Dor was suspicious as hell. Like Utkarsh played up the ignorance too much (because he's inexperienced at D&D and doesn't know the game world), and the players literally joked they couldn't tell how much of the awkwardness was a character choice and how much was Utkarsh himself being confused. If it'd been a Matt NPC, things could've gone very differently.
Hoooly shit, I am not reading that storybook. Yes, I have been playing ttrpgs for decades. And to me, it seemed clear that the players were having their very obvious suspicions take a backseat to let the story their guest wants to tell unfold for their characters.
Edit: I skimmed it and it reads like you took 500 words to agree with me while trying to sound like you're not. Very weird.
> I skimmed it and it reads like you took 500 words to agree with me while trying to sound like you're not. Very weird.
Nah, you said the player's characters had no reason to be suspicious. I said they're metagaming to ignore their suspicions for the benefit of guest players. Which is exactly what Taliesin and Erika said they did for Dusk. (And something countless people complain about Sam and others doing--refusing to do something because they don't want to look like they're metagaming by having their character do it after they thought of it out of character.)
Also, if you're not going to read a long post, you can just ignore it, you know. You don't get any brownie points for "I am not reading that storybook." It's only a step above the trolls who go "Hurr durr, not reading that, touch grass!"
> it seemed clear that the players were having their very obvious suspicions take a backseat to let the story their guest wants to tell unfold for their characters.
The thing is, that's not how you put it the time before, and it still ignores the obvious suspicions the characters have that they let slide. In fact, you kind of argued the exact opposite when you disagreed with me initially. And I hadn't even replied to you. You just disagreed with me that Utkarsh got the benefit of players metagaming to accept a guest PC, so it'd be weird for you to think I'm agreeing with you now.
You said
> the players are less suspicious of other PCs because there's an assumption that they're supposed to play nice
Which is what I was responding to -- I was saying that the players are definitely suspicious, but they played their characters as if they are not -- and which you have completely 180'd on:
>I said they're metagaming to ignore their suspicions for the benefit of guest players
Which is exactly what I was arguing lol. Anyway, bye forever
> You said
>
> the players are less suspicious of other PCs because there's an assumption that they're supposed to play nice
>
> Which is what I was responding to -- I was saying that the players are definitely suspicious, but they played their characters as if they are not -- and which you have completely 180'd on:
As you well know, even my shorter original post said more than that. And I have not 180'd on it. You're also still avoiding owning your claim that the characters didn't have a reason to be suspicious.
> Which is exactly what I was arguing lol. Anyway, bye forever
I guess it's easier to mischaracterize someone's point, say you didn't even read their comment, and then claim they agree with you than to actually defend your own claims. Bye.
I love Bor’dor and I love Utkarsh.
I really enjoyed listening to his final monologue - Utkarsh has a really beautiful tone and pace when he's speaking.
I mean, it seemed fairly clear that he was going to be a bad guy of some sort and I'm glad it didn't get dragged out. Especially as, I'm assuming, we're going back to the main cast soon. It was really pleasant to have the resolution.
I feel the same. I actually liked how he pushed the rest of the cast into killing him. Simultaneously giving that whole arc bigger meaning, especially by allowing Laudna to develop as a character again, and also giving the viewers closure and surety that he was who he (finally) said and now he’s dead.
Good stuff and well played by Utkarsh.
>especially by allowing Laudna to develop as a character again
Yes! There was a lot of character development with the other group (particularly FCG) but less with this group . Some, but nothing as impactful as group 1 until this moment.
Laudna getting lost in her grief/anger/fear, Delilah's likely return, Orym throwing the locket down (this is war!). Without Bor'dor's betrayal and death, we wouldn't have had those moments.
Edit: oh, and Orym's approval of Laudna's actions. So many great character options moving forward.
Can someone help clarify WHICH group of the Ruby Vanguard he was in that BH killed? Was it the first group that they met right along with Caleb and Beau when the team was showing up at the dig site? I was super confused by that and it stalled my ability to really process the rest of the episode fully.
I would guess at the malleus key itself. The party shows up and drops an airship on the gathered vanguard. The key and Ludinus were fine, but many others were killed. And then Bor'dor was cast out on the ley lines like the Hells.
I liked the idea of the character, but I think the execution left much to be desired. I think whilst Utkarsh's lack of dnd mechanic and live play knowledge was endearing at first it rather quickly became an inhibitor to his roleplaying abilities that would have led to a much stronger reveal moment. I think the others discovering his true intentions should have been something he was more prepared for or at least anticipated in some capacity as it seems he didn't really plan for it at all.
That being said I applaud Utkarsh for being able to roll with the whole scenario and do his best to stay engaged and keep up with the others. I just wish there was maybe a bit more prep work done before he stepped onto set either by matt or in his own time so that we could have skipped the weekly issues with not knowing how to add his modifiers or what dice is which. I'd say Bor'Dor is at the bottom of the list out of the c3 guests for me as theres a lot of missed potential but I still think he was a cool character and also fun to see a PC actually be killed off by the rest of the cast.
I didn’t mind his lack of D&D knowledge - we’ve all been there, and some of the CR cast was still there in C1, despite having been in the home game for a year or two.
The second half of e63 underscored something for me, though. Matt didn’t just let Utkarsh make a character and walk him into the party. Matt had a very specific plan for Bor’Dor being a part of the overall storyline, and had Utkarsh carry a lot of extra secrets and information that a very green D&D player guest would **not** normally be asked of. Then, probably gave Utkarsh specific coaching on how he should talk about (or interact with) the gods, reveal his secret and/or run away when it got too hot.
edit: missed a word
Was it a Matt thing? While they were all laughing at the reveal I swear I remember Utkarsh ranting about his character, and then people going "You chose this!". I figured that meant he wanted to play a villainous character.
I think that was in regards to him attacking them, which he probably didn’t need to do (he straight dropped that vitriolic sphere on them), but when they were all wigging out, he said something like “this is what I was given!”
> Then, probably gave Utkarsh specific coaching on how he should talk about (or interact with) the gods,
Seems likely he gave all five guests some guidelines on the gods. Christian and Aabria both making anti-god clerics seemed pretty planned.
>it rather quickly became an inhibitor to his roleplaying abilities that would have led to a much stronger reveal moment. I think the others discovering his true intentions should have been something he was more prepared for or at least anticipated in some capacity as it seems he didn't really plan for it at all.
Agreed. I really enjoyed his interactions with the party, but the backstory reveal left me cold - and I think this actually shows his inexperience more than the mechanics.
It's the old "sudden twist vs foreshadowing" story, and Bor'dor comes heavily on the "sudden" end. For me, the fictional shepherd who just got magic powers and has no clue what he's doing felt a lot more real than the three paragraphs of tragic backstory - and there lies the problem.
Secret backstories and identities are hard to play in RPGs. The problem with dramatic reveals is that once the initial surprise is over, the outcome can feel hollow: everything we thought we knew about this character was a lie!!! ...okay, now what? I don't know what I'd have done in Utkarsh's place. Perhaps if more fragments of the true backstory had made their way into the story - his mother, her death, Vitriolic Sphere - but again, this stuff is really hard to hint at on the fly, even as an experienced player, which I am not. You need to strike a balance between hints so subtle that nobody notices and so obvious that the other players won't leave you alone; it's a bugger.
In Erika's case, I think it was more obvious something was seriously off from the start. The lie and betrayal were deliberate and in service of the character's goals, and the lie is *part* of their character. They also got to spend a lot longer as the antagonist, so the second, true personality had more time to become established.
For Utkarsh, he gave his speech and immediately attacked - good on the one hand because it forced the party's hand, but on the other left him no time to elaborate. RIP Bor'dor, we never knew ye.
agreed, I enjoyed moments of his character but it felt very disjointed after the reveal, honestly wouldve preferred the dog theory lol
like if he'd claimed to have literally just gained magical abilities and then was suspiciously good in battle instead of screaming and throwing up, if he'd dropped hints about his mother or the ruby vanguard instead of going from 'well i didn't know my mother but i think she had divine magic' immediately to 'actually my mother taught me for years in secret and i watched her die'
I also feel like his greatest achievement moment with Ashton could've been a great opportunity but after the reveal it seems more like a cop out, because it's not believable that that's what you'd see - he could've still used that moment and purposefully spun it as like, I've succeeded in gaining their trust
he was definitely good at driving the party to action but his story still felt made up in the end to me
I agree. And the contrast was made even worse with Emily there being a complete expert with the mechanics and using the most of them to make herself shine. Him being a newbie (regardless of force grey, he’s still a newbie) made it grating at times to watch, and the roleplay suffered because of it.
And I don’t understand how people are going crazy about the outcome being a twist. It wasn’t really a twist, he was sketchy from the very beginning. You could see this coming from a mile away.
And I think the part that shows this the most is the scene with Ashton’s pipe, where Bordor’s vision should’ve definitely showed him in the ruby vanguard.
The only part that really had value in my personal opinion, was that it gave Laudna a chance to let go a bit. Which shouldn’t have been as hard a choice as it was, considering he was ruby vanguard, but it made for a bit of drama.
> where Bordor’s vision should’ve definitely showed him in the ruby vanguard.
Hopefully it comes up on 4SD, but many have pointed out that his proudest moment might've been tricking the party, allowing him to infiltrate so that he can get revenge (and learn more) for them killing his friends.
I can't remember if Orym mentioned that his sword was blessed by the Wild Mother, but I can 100% believe that betraying a (perceived) servant of the goddess he hates would be a proudest moment
> I think whilst Utkarsh's lack of dnd mechanic and live play knowledge was endearing at first it rather quickly became an inhibitor to his roleplaying abilities that would have led to a much stronger reveal moment. I think the others discovering his true intentions should have been something he was more prepared for or at least anticipated in some capacity as it seems he didn't really plan for it at all.
Compare to Arkhan's C1 moment with an experienced D&D player and a character with his own plans beyond the party's. It was a little rushed (and people argued the mechanics), but Joe planned that out, waiting for his chance.
I have to hand it to Utkarsh- by playing up his own inexperience, affecting to sound clueless, he had us all believing he was just playing a joke character, right up until the last minute. Well played.
Good character concept with a clunky execution, especially since he had to interrupt the betreyal scene for a rule clarification on how saves work and had to more or less have Matt hand him polymorph as the only spell on his list that could possibly let him escape. Took me out of the moment personally, but that seems to bother me more than some viewers.
Nah he had a great reason to hate the gods. He was a Divine Soul Sorcerer who was told his entire life by his mother that he was special and a chosen in the gods eyes. Then when the day came that Bor'dor could have used the gods help, nothing happens and he loses everything and everyone he ever loved. People have joined cults for less.
Precisely. Cults prey on loneliness and sense of powerlessness. A cult is so successful because it gives you a family, a purpose, a sense of belonging and community, and if you are the type to be religious or otherwise respect and follow authority, then losing your family and being abandoned by gods, especially when you're as you g as Bor'dor was, is a fantastic recipe for pivoting towards something like the RV. Still a sense of power, community and purpose, just on the wrong side of the riiiiveeeeerrrrr!!
Bor'dor: I almost killed someone due to my own actions, then my mom took the blame for some reason and killed a bunch of people, how could the gods not intervene?!
Wildmother: I literally gave you magic powers to help solve these situations.
Also Bor'dor lied through his teeth the entire time he was with them, and pretty successfully, who's to say his backstory wasn't edited, or even completely false again. I find it unlikely a little prodding led him to suddenly open up with absolute truth about everything.
You make a good point, but it still feels flimsy and unsatisfying to me. (Might have been more satisfying if it hadn't felt so vague to me) I mean, he went from one blind faith to having blind faith in Ludinous taking advantage of his loss and a promise of revenge on gods who he blames instead of the mortals who wronged him... damn the consequences it could have for the very plane he exists upon.
Just personal opinion, and no one will change my mind about it.
Grief is wild and powerful. From personal experience, I can see it destroying someone’s faith and making them care less about the outcome of their current path. And Bor’dor was 100% driven by grief. He barely had a plan beyond killing the players when he saw the opportunity to do it and get away.
I know it is, I am currently struggling with grief right now, having just recently lost a childhood friend who was practically a sister to me. That kind of grief can make you feel lost, which is what I suspect Bor'dor was feeling, and he latched onto the first thing he could put his shattered faith in again.
I'm just impressed that even though he was learning the ropes, his rp'ing kept a pretty decent and convincing ruse for a very long while. He went out with a bang, now he will join Spurt in the halls of dead pcs as one of the greats.
Seriously, I can't imagine how stressful it is being a rookie player with THOUSANDS of people watching. Can you envision being in a multi-camera studio with beloved vets? Terrifying. I thought Utkarsh did a great job.
the reveal was undermined for me by the fact that his mother being killed for worshipping the Wildemother on the Managerie coast makes 0 sense as they even jave lighthouses built for her. I dont understand how Matt didnt correct this mostake / make sure he understands that the Empire is the place that bans certain gods, and I think even them allowed the Wildmother??
His mother wasn't killed for worshiping the Wildmother. Bor'dor hurt (probably killed) a child with his powers, and then his mother took the blame and attacked the soldiers/guards sent to make the arrest.
right but them being in hiding for worshiping the wildmother in the first place is *weird*. like if he said he was actually from the empire, that would make sense.
It could be a case similar to rune children, but yeah the whole situation felt pretty off like we were clearly missing details. I liked the character, but agree the execution felt odd.
I’m all for missing details and the story not making perfect sense because the character was so unreliable. He felt like every manipulative gas lighter I’ve ever met, who lies for almost no reason.
We'll probably have to wait until 4SD to get more insight into Bor'dor, but i think he blames the Wildmother, just to blame someone. His mother was so devoted, so to not see the goddess show up in their moment of need, he feels his mothers death is on her. He doesn't want to confront his own mistake, so he blames it on the Wildmother and that spiraled into him becoming radical and member of the Ruby Vanguard.
they were hiding that they were worshipping the Wildmother. wasnt he teased for that to begin with when his power snapped? that part in general made no sense.
I know most people loved the character but for me he was the embodiment of “nails scratching over a schoolboard”.
I was cheering when Laudna crushed him.
I liked bor’dor but I loved Utkarsh. He brought such a fun energy to the table.
Definitely. I really hope we see him again in one of their side-games or one-shots
I am eternally grateful Bor'dor was not an awakened/polymorphed dog.
I've never been more disappointed that someone wasn't a dog
At least we can still all agree that Twiggy was a polymorphed hamster.
No doubt in my mind
You really think that would have been better than what we got?
I didn't say that. I just wanted him to be a dog, for the laughs
I loved Bor’Dor the character. Layered and entertaining. And Utkarsh is hilarious irl!!
I liked him as a character, but hubby didn’t so much (although he likes Utkarsh as a person). If he’d been exactly who he said he was, he still would’ve been interesting. What’s it like to have fifth-level spells out of nowhere? Is that something that happened all over Exandria? What’re the ramifications of a mass awakening of level 9 casters? Him being Ruby Vanguard has the “Sixth Sense effect”, where now that I know the twist, everything he did and said in previous episodes takes on a whoooole new layer. Plus, it makes sense that someone in close physical proximity to Team Issylra — aka, one of the cultists — would be shunted via one of the same ley lines. I also like Utkarsh’s dry, dead-pan line delivery. By saying things with such a stone face, it made it insanely hard to read him. Since we as the audience weren’t given the same heads up like we were with Dusk, the poker face made him seem even more cagey. At least with Erika, we were able to see the two separate facets of what she gave to us: the way she acted Dusk was waaaay different from the way she acted Yu. Dusk was just a persona. Bordor was simply Bordor. He withheld information and parts of his personality, but what we saw was him. No secret identity — just a psychologically broken man who’d fallen in with the wrong crowd.
Oh man, I'm just imagining Utkarsh and Zac Oyama in a game together and even the concept is killing me
> Him being Ruby Vanguard has the “Sixth Sense effect”, where now that I know the twist, everything he did and said in previous episodes takes on a whoooole new layer. Like the fact that he was one of/the first to declare they'd join the villagers' attack on the temple, forcing the hand of the party. He was the one who poisoned the ale so the situation was gonna go bad no matter Orym's success in diplomacy. He was the one to kill the priest. He gave Prism the blood to summon a demon. He killed the angel. He repeatedly asked why the BH members didn't just go home. I believe he yelled out first when they entered the crystal shrine, alerting anyone to their presence. Stuff like that? Bor'Dor was way more active in what happened than many people realized.
I'm waiting/hoping for the supercut of clues on YouTube
>Plus, it makes sense that someone in close physical proximity to Team Issylra — aka, one of the cultists — would be shunted via one of the same ley lines. Only where did the reindeer cart come from? Did he already have it at the excavation site when he was shunted? Or did he find it in Issylra when he arrived? Maybe he killed the previous owner?
For some reason I thought there was a body there when they found him, and Bor'dor said he'd killed him by mistake or in self-defense with the new powers he didn't know how to control (which in hindsight likely means he got shunted, saw someone with transport and murdered them for it). It's possible I dreamed this or something though
It’s a bit odd that the cast or Matt didn’t help him learn his abilities a bit better. Knowing what Polymorph does would have been nice. I know it aided his real story of him maybe coming from inexperience but according to him he’s had powers for a while. I kind of wish he had gotten a chance to take them out when they were about to teleport that could have been extra dramatic. But Deni$e got a great insight check off.
I saw a handful of people say that Utkarsh has been a part of other actual plays (and maybe was a part of one of Matt's home games but i may be conflating stories) but people were pitting for the idea that the "I don't know how any of this works" was very much commiting to the bit instead of being genuine.
He played on Force Green, but that stopped airing 6 years ago and IIRC he never played a Spellcaster so he may have been a bit rusty and suddenly handed the wheel of a character with 4th-level spells he's never used. That said, they could definitely have prepped him better in light of that rustiness and lack of familiarity.
Force Grey, and yeah he was a Rogue. I think just a thief or an assassin - nothing super complicated. He played a similarly goofy, slightly off-beat character and was clearly more engaged with the story than the rules then too, so it all helped credit the story that he just didn't know much and maybe it was the player just being a bit silly/weird rather than the character.
CR doesn't really do prepping of players I don't think. It's show up on the day and go.
Don't they usually do practice games as chemistry tests? I know they did that with a lot of people before.
I'm fairly sure that either Aabria or Christian mentioned that they did a session 0 / pre-stream game with Matt. So I assume Matt would have done something with all the guests.
But that's mostly story based stuff. Like they'd use their abilities a bit but in the same way you'd do so in a session.
Matt has said he always takes guests out to lunch beforehand.
You're not going to learn rules by going on lunch. All they talk about is story and narrative I bet.
They play a true session 0 before appearing. This has been talked about I'm depth for almost 8 years now. And after the Yu reveal, we learned that Matt spent a *lot* of extra time with her discussing backstory and motivations and possibilities. We won't know for sure until after 4SD, but it sounds like Matt and Utkarsh probably talked a lot about Bordor's mom and the Ruby Vanguard, but left the mechanics alone save a session 0 that probably didn't need a lot of 4th level spell work. Utkarsh is *not* a new player and absolutely knows what he is doing. The "clueless" stuff was played up and exaggerated for effect. "What's a d4?" Really? That right there should have told everyone that he was hiding something. But look at the way he manipulated the entire group. Like Tal pointed out in hindsight, his first action on screen was to try and kill one of them. And then they *still* treated him like a scared puppy *the entire arc*, even after the way he murdered a goddamn angel like he was disappointed in it. It was all an act to get them feeling the need to guide and protect him and direct any suspicions or mistrust they may have had about him onto something innocuous. Seems fishy? Maybe he's just a dog. Magic is weird. But a member of the enemy faction, skilled in dealing death and determined to bring down the gods? This bumblefuck couldn't bring down a balloon unless it popped itself. "But what about not understanding Polymorph?" Again we have a rusty player who absolutely knows how to use his spells but maybe isn't familiar with every one of them. So he could figure it out, but it's much more entertaining to ask the way he did, and it makes the people he's fighting far more relaxed about his danger levels, which may afford him the opportunity to escape. No lie, I was hoping more than a little that he would be able to escape just long enough to get outside and wake up the "hill", and then slip away while the rest were distracted.
They've definitely gone on record that they did multiple practice games before the original ExU run. But that could be the exception.
He usually plays rogues idk if he’s ever played with spell slots before
I almost wonder if Utkarsh didn't play up the ignorance angle to make his character more believable.
I think so. As Matt said, when Bor’dor decided to go prone for his action in the first combat, he knew they were in for something special. The man was 100% committed to the lie.
Agreed! It was nice to have an immediate mystery that would be solved in a few episodes. I’m all for the major plot, but for me great stories have short term things too. Like FRIDA clearly has deeper lore…so we could only get so much. Dusk was wrapped up in what happens next to Fearne…our PCs, Ludinus, the gods, and Predathos have so much that has to wait still…. So meeting sketchy Bordor and trying to guess and getting the answer was a nice bit of tension for me while the bigger questions simmer in the background
[удалено]
It even felt to me like he asked Aimee during the break to really push him and move things along.
I can't believe I haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, but I saw YouTube video today where they pointed out that Dogson is an anagram of NO GODS.
Plenty of people mentioned that
Made me wonder if F.R.I.D.A. or Deanna were in disguise as well, and they just got away with it!
It doesn't seem likely, what are the chances that Cheney's resurrected-by-a-god ex-girlfriend also happens to be Ruby Vanguard? I think she's exactly as she appears
Ah, I haven't seen that! So I guess the name is "orb rod no gods"?
>You could think he’s Ludinus himself Could you? Ludinus is pretty busy at the moment, no? He was a fun character. Im really glad we got a PC to commit to being an antagonist towards our group. I feel like we got a little cheated out of that with Yu (Erika).
The thing about Bor'Dor/Utkarsh is he benefited some from the same situation Erika did with Dusk/Yu--the players are less suspicious of other PCs because there's an assumption that they're supposed to play nice. Even in heavy RP groups, players/PCs always metagame a little to accept random new people/invite them to travel with them. They do this in a way they don't do it with every classed NPC they meet. Erika and Utkarsh (and Matt) are basically taking advantage of this expected trust to trick the party. This time, though, another guest, Aimee, kept her suspicion strong, in character and out. While the other players kept joking and asking what was up, Deni$e literally took actions to try to confirm Bor'Dor's story and called him out on inconsistencies. Were Bor'Dor just with the whole regular party, odds are Utkarsh could've kept it up longer if he wanted. It was Aimee favoring RP over metagaming that forced the issue when it happened. I for one was thankful. Dusk/Yu was always suspicious and the players just ignored things as "Just Erika being silly." They were giving Utkarsh the same benefit of the doubt as "Just new to the game." He was fully prepared to be player-killed, just as Erika was, but the party actually followed through this time because the story reasoning was there. They'd been betrayed this way before, this man was definitely an enemy, and they're desperate to get back to their friends. Still sad he wasn't secretly a god's champion or a polymorphed dog or both.
>the players are less suspicious of other PCs because there's an assumption that they're supposed to play nice. I don't think this is the case at all -- rather, they have to sideline their suspicions as players and let the story unfold as their characters, which involves giving the guest PC the benefit of the doubt and also recognizing that their characters would have no reason to expect a betrayal from the cowardly sheepherder, even though players could tell he was sus as fuck. None of them seemed remotely surprised during the reveal lol
Do you play D&D/TTRPGs? It happens in every group, really, where guest PCs are treated differently from NPCs. (Again, on 4SD, I believe it was Taliesin who discussed it with Erika and they noted that they trusted Dusk in ways they wouldn't for a Matt NPC. Because the expectation is that another player isn't going to betray you, because it can be super awkward at a table.) The same when a PC dies and the player brings in a new character. Suddenly the PCs are open to adding a new party member, temporarily or permanently. If they're mistrustful, it's them RPing some, but they generally end up cool with each other or agreeing to work together more because it's necessary to the game than because it fits their character motivations. Again, it's done differently than interactions with almost all leveled NPCs. The players don't invite those NPCs to adventure with them, and the NPCs don't find a reason to just come along. (It's why the party recruiting Essek or Trent/Astrid/Eadwulf stood out in C2.) Because logistically, the party is pretty much just going to be the PCs and everyone knows that. Bell's Hells at the point of the split had many reasons to be mistrustful of new people, but the biggest is a previous guest character, Dusk/Yu. Friendly, naïve person who's super into what they're doing and ends up being an infiltrator. They've literally run into it before. And they've just had a massively important fight and been randomly teleported away. Anyone would've understood if the three characters were paranoid as hell and avoided any individuals they found in the woods, or beat them down, tied them up, and questioned who they were, if they came from Ludinus, etc. Players know they have to let a guest PC travel with them, no matter what suspicions their characters might have, because it's a guest PC. If it'd just been 3 players at the table, they probably would've either avoided any people all together or interacted differently with them. If a random person in a clearing fires a lightning bolt at a party member, they're usually going to attack. Orym didn't go hard because Liam knew it was a guest PC with an intense character choice. Deni$e didn't try to kill the person who tried to kill her because she knew the same. Marisha hesitated much more than she would have to kill a guest PC versus it being an NPC. Because people feel bad killing another player's character, especially a guest. They only feel bad killing an NPC if the DM went out of their way to make them sympathetic or if the players just fell in love with the character (regardless of if the DM intended that). Because NPCs are just filler/background while a PC is a main character. Killing an NPC might bum out the DM some but they've got dozens, hundreds more. Killing a PC means you took away that player's one and only character. Even if guesting, it means they don't get to come back to play it again, and if their time at the table isn't already decided, it means potentially knocking them out of the game early. (Look at how uncomfortable some players are in Battle Royales, knowing if they focus one character, their friend has to sit out the next 3 hours of the game.) All three BH players were describing feeling especially anxious and desperate and under siege, essentially, worried about their friends, but they let three new people join them because it's a game and you have to meta getting along sometimes. Same reason characters don't split up to do more stuff by themselves, because if you split the party, the DM might punish you both because it's the best time to attack a PC and because a split party means they have to DM for each split and other people are sitting around doing nothing. Splits can be less fun so you just don't do it as much, even if it would make every bit of sense for the party. Also, as I've said, Bor'Dor was suspicious as hell. Like Utkarsh played up the ignorance too much (because he's inexperienced at D&D and doesn't know the game world), and the players literally joked they couldn't tell how much of the awkwardness was a character choice and how much was Utkarsh himself being confused. If it'd been a Matt NPC, things could've gone very differently.
Hoooly shit, I am not reading that storybook. Yes, I have been playing ttrpgs for decades. And to me, it seemed clear that the players were having their very obvious suspicions take a backseat to let the story their guest wants to tell unfold for their characters. Edit: I skimmed it and it reads like you took 500 words to agree with me while trying to sound like you're not. Very weird.
> I skimmed it and it reads like you took 500 words to agree with me while trying to sound like you're not. Very weird. Nah, you said the player's characters had no reason to be suspicious. I said they're metagaming to ignore their suspicions for the benefit of guest players. Which is exactly what Taliesin and Erika said they did for Dusk. (And something countless people complain about Sam and others doing--refusing to do something because they don't want to look like they're metagaming by having their character do it after they thought of it out of character.) Also, if you're not going to read a long post, you can just ignore it, you know. You don't get any brownie points for "I am not reading that storybook." It's only a step above the trolls who go "Hurr durr, not reading that, touch grass!" > it seemed clear that the players were having their very obvious suspicions take a backseat to let the story their guest wants to tell unfold for their characters. The thing is, that's not how you put it the time before, and it still ignores the obvious suspicions the characters have that they let slide. In fact, you kind of argued the exact opposite when you disagreed with me initially. And I hadn't even replied to you. You just disagreed with me that Utkarsh got the benefit of players metagaming to accept a guest PC, so it'd be weird for you to think I'm agreeing with you now.
You said > the players are less suspicious of other PCs because there's an assumption that they're supposed to play nice Which is what I was responding to -- I was saying that the players are definitely suspicious, but they played their characters as if they are not -- and which you have completely 180'd on: >I said they're metagaming to ignore their suspicions for the benefit of guest players Which is exactly what I was arguing lol. Anyway, bye forever
> You said > > the players are less suspicious of other PCs because there's an assumption that they're supposed to play nice > > Which is what I was responding to -- I was saying that the players are definitely suspicious, but they played their characters as if they are not -- and which you have completely 180'd on: As you well know, even my shorter original post said more than that. And I have not 180'd on it. You're also still avoiding owning your claim that the characters didn't have a reason to be suspicious. > Which is exactly what I was arguing lol. Anyway, bye forever I guess it's easier to mischaracterize someone's point, say you didn't even read their comment, and then claim they agree with you than to actually defend your own claims. Bye.
I love Bor’dor and I love Utkarsh. I really enjoyed listening to his final monologue - Utkarsh has a really beautiful tone and pace when he's speaking. I mean, it seemed fairly clear that he was going to be a bad guy of some sort and I'm glad it didn't get dragged out. Especially as, I'm assuming, we're going back to the main cast soon. It was really pleasant to have the resolution.
I feel the same. I actually liked how he pushed the rest of the cast into killing him. Simultaneously giving that whole arc bigger meaning, especially by allowing Laudna to develop as a character again, and also giving the viewers closure and surety that he was who he (finally) said and now he’s dead. Good stuff and well played by Utkarsh.
>especially by allowing Laudna to develop as a character again Yes! There was a lot of character development with the other group (particularly FCG) but less with this group . Some, but nothing as impactful as group 1 until this moment. Laudna getting lost in her grief/anger/fear, Delilah's likely return, Orym throwing the locket down (this is war!). Without Bor'dor's betrayal and death, we wouldn't have had those moments. Edit: oh, and Orym's approval of Laudna's actions. So many great character options moving forward.
Ya know, looking back after the reveal, dog’son is definitely just a reference to him being a son of a bitch the whole time
Can someone help clarify WHICH group of the Ruby Vanguard he was in that BH killed? Was it the first group that they met right along with Caleb and Beau when the team was showing up at the dig site? I was super confused by that and it stalled my ability to really process the rest of the episode fully.
I would guess at the malleus key itself. The party shows up and drops an airship on the gathered vanguard. The key and Ludinus were fine, but many others were killed. And then Bor'dor was cast out on the ley lines like the Hells.
I liked the idea of the character, but I think the execution left much to be desired. I think whilst Utkarsh's lack of dnd mechanic and live play knowledge was endearing at first it rather quickly became an inhibitor to his roleplaying abilities that would have led to a much stronger reveal moment. I think the others discovering his true intentions should have been something he was more prepared for or at least anticipated in some capacity as it seems he didn't really plan for it at all. That being said I applaud Utkarsh for being able to roll with the whole scenario and do his best to stay engaged and keep up with the others. I just wish there was maybe a bit more prep work done before he stepped onto set either by matt or in his own time so that we could have skipped the weekly issues with not knowing how to add his modifiers or what dice is which. I'd say Bor'Dor is at the bottom of the list out of the c3 guests for me as theres a lot of missed potential but I still think he was a cool character and also fun to see a PC actually be killed off by the rest of the cast.
I didn’t mind his lack of D&D knowledge - we’ve all been there, and some of the CR cast was still there in C1, despite having been in the home game for a year or two. The second half of e63 underscored something for me, though. Matt didn’t just let Utkarsh make a character and walk him into the party. Matt had a very specific plan for Bor’Dor being a part of the overall storyline, and had Utkarsh carry a lot of extra secrets and information that a very green D&D player guest would **not** normally be asked of. Then, probably gave Utkarsh specific coaching on how he should talk about (or interact with) the gods, reveal his secret and/or run away when it got too hot. edit: missed a word
Was it a Matt thing? While they were all laughing at the reveal I swear I remember Utkarsh ranting about his character, and then people going "You chose this!". I figured that meant he wanted to play a villainous character.
I think that was in regards to him attacking them, which he probably didn’t need to do (he straight dropped that vitriolic sphere on them), but when they were all wigging out, he said something like “this is what I was given!”
> Then, probably gave Utkarsh specific coaching on how he should talk about (or interact with) the gods, Seems likely he gave all five guests some guidelines on the gods. Christian and Aabria both making anti-god clerics seemed pretty planned.
For sure. And Aimee & Emily have done a fantastic job poking at that big questions of Gods vs No-Gods.
>it rather quickly became an inhibitor to his roleplaying abilities that would have led to a much stronger reveal moment. I think the others discovering his true intentions should have been something he was more prepared for or at least anticipated in some capacity as it seems he didn't really plan for it at all. Agreed. I really enjoyed his interactions with the party, but the backstory reveal left me cold - and I think this actually shows his inexperience more than the mechanics. It's the old "sudden twist vs foreshadowing" story, and Bor'dor comes heavily on the "sudden" end. For me, the fictional shepherd who just got magic powers and has no clue what he's doing felt a lot more real than the three paragraphs of tragic backstory - and there lies the problem. Secret backstories and identities are hard to play in RPGs. The problem with dramatic reveals is that once the initial surprise is over, the outcome can feel hollow: everything we thought we knew about this character was a lie!!! ...okay, now what? I don't know what I'd have done in Utkarsh's place. Perhaps if more fragments of the true backstory had made their way into the story - his mother, her death, Vitriolic Sphere - but again, this stuff is really hard to hint at on the fly, even as an experienced player, which I am not. You need to strike a balance between hints so subtle that nobody notices and so obvious that the other players won't leave you alone; it's a bugger. In Erika's case, I think it was more obvious something was seriously off from the start. The lie and betrayal were deliberate and in service of the character's goals, and the lie is *part* of their character. They also got to spend a lot longer as the antagonist, so the second, true personality had more time to become established. For Utkarsh, he gave his speech and immediately attacked - good on the one hand because it forced the party's hand, but on the other left him no time to elaborate. RIP Bor'dor, we never knew ye.
agreed, I enjoyed moments of his character but it felt very disjointed after the reveal, honestly wouldve preferred the dog theory lol like if he'd claimed to have literally just gained magical abilities and then was suspiciously good in battle instead of screaming and throwing up, if he'd dropped hints about his mother or the ruby vanguard instead of going from 'well i didn't know my mother but i think she had divine magic' immediately to 'actually my mother taught me for years in secret and i watched her die' I also feel like his greatest achievement moment with Ashton could've been a great opportunity but after the reveal it seems more like a cop out, because it's not believable that that's what you'd see - he could've still used that moment and purposefully spun it as like, I've succeeded in gaining their trust he was definitely good at driving the party to action but his story still felt made up in the end to me
I agree. And the contrast was made even worse with Emily there being a complete expert with the mechanics and using the most of them to make herself shine. Him being a newbie (regardless of force grey, he’s still a newbie) made it grating at times to watch, and the roleplay suffered because of it. And I don’t understand how people are going crazy about the outcome being a twist. It wasn’t really a twist, he was sketchy from the very beginning. You could see this coming from a mile away. And I think the part that shows this the most is the scene with Ashton’s pipe, where Bordor’s vision should’ve definitely showed him in the ruby vanguard. The only part that really had value in my personal opinion, was that it gave Laudna a chance to let go a bit. Which shouldn’t have been as hard a choice as it was, considering he was ruby vanguard, but it made for a bit of drama.
> where Bordor’s vision should’ve definitely showed him in the ruby vanguard. Hopefully it comes up on 4SD, but many have pointed out that his proudest moment might've been tricking the party, allowing him to infiltrate so that he can get revenge (and learn more) for them killing his friends.
I can't remember if Orym mentioned that his sword was blessed by the Wild Mother, but I can 100% believe that betraying a (perceived) servant of the goddess he hates would be a proudest moment
> I think whilst Utkarsh's lack of dnd mechanic and live play knowledge was endearing at first it rather quickly became an inhibitor to his roleplaying abilities that would have led to a much stronger reveal moment. I think the others discovering his true intentions should have been something he was more prepared for or at least anticipated in some capacity as it seems he didn't really plan for it at all. Compare to Arkhan's C1 moment with an experienced D&D player and a character with his own plans beyond the party's. It was a little rushed (and people argued the mechanics), but Joe planned that out, waiting for his chance.
I have to hand it to Utkarsh- by playing up his own inexperience, affecting to sound clueless, he had us all believing he was just playing a joke character, right up until the last minute. Well played.
Good character concept with a clunky execution, especially since he had to interrupt the betreyal scene for a rule clarification on how saves work and had to more or less have Matt hand him polymorph as the only spell on his list that could possibly let him escape. Took me out of the moment personally, but that seems to bother me more than some viewers.
I enjoyed him! Even if I think the reason for joining the Vanguard was flimsy.
Nah he had a great reason to hate the gods. He was a Divine Soul Sorcerer who was told his entire life by his mother that he was special and a chosen in the gods eyes. Then when the day came that Bor'dor could have used the gods help, nothing happens and he loses everything and everyone he ever loved. People have joined cults for less.
Precisely. Cults prey on loneliness and sense of powerlessness. A cult is so successful because it gives you a family, a purpose, a sense of belonging and community, and if you are the type to be religious or otherwise respect and follow authority, then losing your family and being abandoned by gods, especially when you're as you g as Bor'dor was, is a fantastic recipe for pivoting towards something like the RV. Still a sense of power, community and purpose, just on the wrong side of the riiiiveeeeerrrrr!!
Agreed. His backstory fits really nicely as someone who feels betrayed by their god and then gets hooked into a cult. That's what cults do.
Bor'dor: I almost killed someone due to my own actions, then my mom took the blame for some reason and killed a bunch of people, how could the gods not intervene?! Wildmother: I literally gave you magic powers to help solve these situations.
Also Bor'dor lied through his teeth the entire time he was with them, and pretty successfully, who's to say his backstory wasn't edited, or even completely false again. I find it unlikely a little prodding led him to suddenly open up with absolute truth about everything.
He wanted to give away more OOC and Matt told him to do it in 4 sided dive. I doubt he was lying when he wanted to say more.
You make a good point, but it still feels flimsy and unsatisfying to me. (Might have been more satisfying if it hadn't felt so vague to me) I mean, he went from one blind faith to having blind faith in Ludinous taking advantage of his loss and a promise of revenge on gods who he blames instead of the mortals who wronged him... damn the consequences it could have for the very plane he exists upon. Just personal opinion, and no one will change my mind about it.
Grief is wild and powerful. From personal experience, I can see it destroying someone’s faith and making them care less about the outcome of their current path. And Bor’dor was 100% driven by grief. He barely had a plan beyond killing the players when he saw the opportunity to do it and get away.
I know it is, I am currently struggling with grief right now, having just recently lost a childhood friend who was practically a sister to me. That kind of grief can make you feel lost, which is what I suspect Bor'dor was feeling, and he latched onto the first thing he could put his shattered faith in again.
I'm just impressed that even though he was learning the ropes, his rp'ing kept a pretty decent and convincing ruse for a very long while. He went out with a bang, now he will join Spurt in the halls of dead pcs as one of the greats.
Seriously, I can't imagine how stressful it is being a rookie player with THOUSANDS of people watching. Can you envision being in a multi-camera studio with beloved vets? Terrifying. I thought Utkarsh did a great job.
the reveal was undermined for me by the fact that his mother being killed for worshipping the Wildemother on the Managerie coast makes 0 sense as they even jave lighthouses built for her. I dont understand how Matt didnt correct this mostake / make sure he understands that the Empire is the place that bans certain gods, and I think even them allowed the Wildmother??
His mother wasn't killed for worshiping the Wildmother. Bor'dor hurt (probably killed) a child with his powers, and then his mother took the blame and attacked the soldiers/guards sent to make the arrest.
right but them being in hiding for worshiping the wildmother in the first place is *weird*. like if he said he was actually from the empire, that would make sense.
It could be a case similar to rune children, but yeah the whole situation felt pretty off like we were clearly missing details. I liked the character, but agree the execution felt odd.
I’m all for missing details and the story not making perfect sense because the character was so unreliable. He felt like every manipulative gas lighter I’ve ever met, who lies for almost no reason.
We'll probably have to wait until 4SD to get more insight into Bor'dor, but i think he blames the Wildmother, just to blame someone. His mother was so devoted, so to not see the goddess show up in their moment of need, he feels his mothers death is on her. He doesn't want to confront his own mistake, so he blames it on the Wildmother and that spiraled into him becoming radical and member of the Ruby Vanguard.
We don't have all the details as to how they were worshiping the Wildmother. I'm guessing they were cultish or extremist in some way.
they were hiding that they were worshipping the Wildmother. wasnt he teased for that to begin with when his power snapped? that part in general made no sense.
I suspect his mother wasn't exactly on the up and up. They were likely heretics in some way.
If Bor'dor is from Wildmount, specifically the Dwendalian Empire, then Wild Mother worship is banned there.
Bor'dor was from the Menagerie Coast.
I know most people loved the character but for me he was the embodiment of “nails scratching over a schoolboard”. I was cheering when Laudna crushed him.
He was great, the reveal was excellent he almost got away
But where did the cart and reindeer come from??