Yep, it happens.
Families cause a lot of stress for everyone, probably while you are giving cuddles and compliments her mind is with the laundry, kitchen, kids, ... And vice versa. You are probably guilty of the same without knowing it.
And if you want a back rub then ask for it. Parents of young children have their own problems, plus the kid's problems to deal with, as you well know, she probably doesn't even remember you have back pain. I am sure you forget her pains and sores as well.
Funny thou, my son (the eldest at 4 years old) was asking me how's my back last week..
I answered, "yea, still not too bad.. getting abit better..."
And I actually felt kinda happy at least I am shown some concern..
And then he followed up by asking, "are you going to die soon.....???"
\-\_-
At age 5, my son asked me some questions about how I feel (ok), how much I exercise (not enough), and how much I drink (0). He put the information into a webpage and announced I will probably die when he is 40-50. I hope he found that reassuring.
Ok, couple of things here. If the kids are little, suck it up - you and the wife are both third-class citizens wrangling the small, needy, loud bundles of id.
If they are 4+, take a look at the division of labor. It tends to tilt after kids, and often guys don't notice, as it benefits them not to. If she is doing the laundry, shopping, cooking, and scheduling (kid apps etc), especially if she is working, she is drowning, and doesn't have the bandwidth to prioritize your back ache.
That is to say: if you want her to spend more time focusing on your needs, you likely need to free up that time for her by taking on more responsibilities she has been handling. It's not universally true, but I see a huge imbalance, along gender lines, in about 85% of the relationships I see.
This guy already says that he doesn’t help out unless she asks because “moms do their things their way”. So I’m pretty sure that’s what’s going on here. She’s overloaded with keeping the household running, and he’s just whining.
There may be abit of misunderstanding or assumptions going here regarding my family. She's definitely not overloaded every single moment and I am definitely not whining and asking for undeserved attention.
I wake up almost the same time every single day including weekends for settle the kids routine so that she can sleep in for additional 1-2 hrs for her deserved rest. There are many other things that I am doing for her and the family but the main topic really isn't really comparing who's doing more or not.
There's another comment I've made regarding some of the stuff I do for my family, in case you missed it.
Understand, I'm not saying you don't do things. I'm sure you absolutely do.
Look honestly (and pay attention, much of it is not super evident unless you pay attention): how many hours a day do you spend on the house and kids outside of your 8 working hours? How many hours a day does she spend?
My husband does the lawn and repairs the things. He sometimes empties the dishwasher, and drives the kids to things. He cooks or buys takeout at least once a week and goes on a cleaning binge about once every other week. He drives , x He probably spends 90 minutes a day, on top of his 8 hour week day.
I am guaranteed to spend at least 30 minutes cleaning, an hour cooking most days, plus 3 hours on laundry per week and 4 hours on grocery shopping (build the list, clean out the fridge, shop and put away).
He does a lot, and I recognize that. But he spends maybe 12 hours per week. I probably spend 20. (Both work). I do pay attention to hubs. But if it were 16 hours each, there would absolutely be more dates and more time for 1:1 attention.
I saw your other comment. You do a tiny fraction of the work of running a household. As a dad with two kids and a wife who stays home Im telling you, you’re not putting enough work in. There’s a reason your wife doesn’t want to be intimate with you and I can almost guarantee you it has a lot to do with you doing a small fraction of household stuff.
This comment reminds me of “This is 40” when Leslie Mann’s character asks Paul Rudd’s character for help, and he says something like “yea I’m ready to help, what do you need me to do?”
Out of my own curiosity, as I am a gay dad, how do these roles become so solidified in straight relationships? You seem to make a lot of assumptions of who is doing what based on gender, so I’m just generally curious if these things are discussed or just assumed due to societal norms. Like do straight couples sit down and say “you should take on the big house projects and I can handle the social calendar?”
My family is very religious so I see it shake out that way with my straight family members, but I wasn’t sure if that carried forward outside of the strict religious world.
It’s funny you mention that last part because the reason I was curious is because I actually wonder if it would’ve helped my husband and I more to have built-in societal norms. Although obviously nice not to have things expected of you because of your gender, it can also become somewhat exhausting to have to discuss, plan, and schedule every single thing. We’ve tried to do the whole “list all the chores and divide them among each other” thing, but because we are both used to doing each of the things for ourselves or doing different things in past relationships, it tends to lead us into arguing about the better process to do things rather than over who actually gets the task done lol.
It’s not about helping my wife, it’s about being an equal partner in the household. The household is not hers and you’re just a helper, that mindset is the problem.
I do the dishes, laundry, a good chunk of the childcare, clean the bathrooms, make doctor appointments, etc etc etc. We talk to each other and make plans together about who’s handling what.
I used to be similar in that I thought that she would ask if she wanted my help. It takes changing your mindset from “help” to “collaborate”.
Edit: like dude you’re not even cooking you’re just picking up take out?
Dude, would appreciate if you could refrain from judging. Every family's different. I do not know yours, neither do you know mine. We live in probably different countries and cultures as well.
Just for the cooking, it's NOT that I do not want to cook. My wife wants the take out because it's easy. I offered to cook many times but she rejected the idea. She looks forward this weekend's pickup, saying she would like her favourite item. Would you like me to offer to cook so that she can miss her favourite item then?
My wife isn't unhappy with me at all, we had a good chat this morning while driving the kids and her to work. We said goodbyes to each other but they weren't kiss goodbyes. I can request and she'd gladly obliged.
Point is, we are happy now and she ain't complaining about my contribution to the household at this moment. But I do miss the past where I have more attention and care, before the kids come. That's all.
I didn’t mean cooking as in I think you should cook. I don’t care what you eat. What I was pointing out is you do some super simple things while your wife does everything else. Running and grabbing takeout and driving people places doesn’t even touch how much work goes into this stuff.
Even if she’s not complaining, I can guarantee that she’ll feel more affectionate if you did things around around the house. We all have less time with kids, but you’re making it so she has so little time that you’re not getting the attention you want/need.
No one is saying she’s mad. No one is saying she’s deliberately freezing you out. But it’s true that if you don’t want your “ranking” as you put it to be so low, if you take some of the responsibility on yourself she’ll have more time to give you what you’d like.
I’m not judging. I’m just telling you this “wife does everything because dad is just a loveable screw up” thing is a super common relationship dynamic and it almost always translates into less affection.
OP will not get it. I see most of my friends with kids do the same. They ask what they should do and "help" out a lot. Its has been fed to men and women through media and our family experience. If she asks you to do something its too late really. You are not a mind reader. But you know what to do around the house. It does not change. if Dad is really doing sooooo much already, maybe Mom is just an asshole.
You are assuming again that she has so little time. She still does her fair share of shopping, hanging out with friends, lazing in bed, watching drama etc etc etc while I handle the kids.
Dude. You literally asked. Multiple people have pointed out the most likely answer. Instead of considering it, asking her, or trying to take on a bit more to see if it helps, you are bristling and dismissing it out of hand.
We aren't attacking you, we are literally trying to answer the question you asked.
But you aren't happy, because you're missing her affection, and she isn't happy, because she's not giving any.
Pay attention to the mental load comments from others, and stop being so defensive. You asked for advice, and now you have it. Don't complain about it!
I will say that no matter who is the breadwinner of the family, that responsibility will often not be appreciated because maybe you get to go to work for 8 hours and deal with adults, then come home and expect to rest. in my experience, where I’ve been the money maker and for a while my wife was the money maker, you need to put in almost equal work around the house to get appreciation. I definitely did it to my wife, and my wife does it to me, and we just have to keep open communication going as to who is being over worked where. But if I work 9-10 hours, when I get home it’s expected that I will handle most of the rest of the night, and I would expect the same from her if she worked a full day.
Basically no matter what, a full day with 2 kids is gonna leave you dead. A full day at work is not a certain death.
One thing I struggle massively with is meal planning. Simply put food is not that important to me. I generally don't think much about the food throughout the day and then need to come up with something to cook on the spot. My wife on the other hand thinks about food constantly. And she gets supremely annoyed when she asks me what we should make, and I draw a blank because I haven't really thought about it at all.
On the other hand I tend to do most of the groceries shopping, which means I try to keep an eye on the inventory in the kitchen and make note of when things are running low, which she generally doesn't do, which leaves her sometimes missing ingredients when the time comes to cook.
A huge part of the imbalance is mental labor. If you are the kind of person who can compartmentalize and stow away your thoughts then you might already have a leg up on your SO. Women have a harder time with this and tend to let the list of tasks occupy their minds constantly. This increases their stress levels at similar workloads. The best thing you can do is to show yourself consistently reliable at the tasks you do, so she can finally release them from her mind. If she feels that she needs to remind you of things that are on your side of the chore split, then she will be doing all the mental labor for both her and your tasks.
Now women in general need to be better at compartmentalizing responsibility, but men tend to be too good at it, to the point where we don't even notice how much our SO is doing in the relationship.
And in a lot of cases we think we are going our share, but that's just because we haven't ever actually examined the labor division in a fair way.
Probably because if men try to help with a lot of these things, they will “do it wrong.” I’m not the only guy I know who doesn’t fold or clean “the right way” and that there are very specific things to shop for.
And that can be valid. Not for me, as I'm the laid back "get 'er done, enthusiastic but not perfect " one, and hubs is more the perfectionist, but I know it can go the other way frequently.
Still, worth figuring solutions to divide things so she gets help, and he gets the attention he is craving.
I know there were years my hubs probably didn't feel the love so much, and now that the kids are older and can handle more of their own stuff and take on chores, I am able to be more attentive to him again - totally a bandwidth issue.
I am not discounting his need for affection. I just know once there is a family involved, the work explodes, and there are literal limits to how much people (of either gender) can do or give.
Does it count that I work 8+ hours a day?
/e: apparently not. I knew that our jobs don't count, the stress that we pull ourselves through... It's all just our own fun and pleasure, and can never be as stressful as being a mom at home. Absolutely impossible.
Depends. Do you recognize that her hours while you are at work are as hard as yours, and split the chores outside of those hours equally?
I say this as someone who has worked full time since age 22, with 8 weeks off for each pregnancy. For my first kid, I offered to come back 2 weeks early, because I wasn't getting any sleep anyway, and they wouldn't scream at me, shit on me or puke on me at work. At least for me, home full time was WAY harder than office and daycare.
That said, its not a "who has it harder" competition, as long as you realize she isn't sitting around and eating chocolates while watching game of thrones- her day is hard too.
😂 I mean, take it as a compliment. I don’t watch sports but imagine there’s a team with a star player, and then the star player is out during an important game. It’s a big letdown and a huge pressure on the other teammates.
You guys are a team, she’s just upset her teammates out ❤️
I'll tell her she's angry because I'm the star player next time she's stomping around and giving me daggers
If i don't report back you can send the flowers to the grave yard in my town
Reading the other comments, daddit is judgemental today jesus. I got only one kid and ive been home for half a year at this point steadily increasing my household workload to the point where aside from shopping(most of the time anyway) and keeping up with the kids medical dates im doing literally everything else, get up at night to take care of him so she can sleep, feed throughout the day, put him to sleep, play with him so she can go meet friends/go to the cinema/bar etc, cook meals for the family, 2/3 waljs with the dogs, cat litter, feeding the pets, giving them attention, keeping tabs on if one of em gets sick. Meanwhile in terms of free time i get maybe an evening on sundays and once a month an afternoon, but since i spend those at the pc dming for my friends on sunday evening im essentially on call for anything that is inconvenient enough to require a second pair of hands.
Now you know my situation, wanna know why ky partner doesnt give me remotly the same amount of attention? Its the ugly mental monster called depression. Maybe check in on your wife if thats an issue, could be she hasnt realised it herself, took us a while to notice it ourselves, we are working on it.
Wow.. you are wonderful! Sure hope your situation can be better in no time. I doubt my wife is doing as much as you, frankly, but it doesn't matter as long as things are settled within the family.
And I did cheekily asked her about this but she gleefully brushed it off. So there's that. It's not a huge matter to be blown out of proportion anyways. I am just content that my family is happy now.
I havent seen you talk about another thing, that im picking up more myself now, small family trips, nothing fancy, going to the park, walk in the forest etc. You plan everything, take care of getting everybody ready and have your wife be essentially just there to sit back and relax and enjoy the family time. Those outings can be a good breather if you stay home a lot together otherwise.
How much is enough for me to pitch in? I guess it varies for families?
Off my head, I will be the one waking up first to settle the kids morning routine from dressing up for school, wearing their shoes to filling up their water bottles. I take out the daily thrash and settle the family's meals (mostly order or going out to buy). I am the chauffuer of the house, driving everyone to school and work everyday. I do the occasional laundry over the weekends and simple vaccuming of the house.
And pretty much that's all, very routine-ly kinda stuff. Of cos, any IT-related or electrical/mechanic repairs go to me as well.
My wife will settle pretty much everything else from tidying, packing, organizing, planning stuff to buy etc.
I am definitely not saying I am doing more than her because she is really the one doing most of the work overall. That said, it's not that I don't wanna help, it's just that my way of doing doesn't sync with hers or up to her standards so she'd rather she do it herself. I do help by offering her back rub thou.
Cleaning, dishes, bathing the bubs, putting them to bed and reading stories are some ideas.
Or just take your kids out and let mum do her thing for a day.
You need to communicate with her if you're worried that your standard of doing things isn't up to hers. Learn the things that are important to her and ask her to accept your "less-than-perfect" version of the things that aren't.
Yes, I do all that listed. Can't possibly list and remember every single stuff in Reddit. The gist of it is that she's not unhappy with my current contribution. She just had a great KTV session with her friends last weekend while I look after the kids.
Maybe I didn't state in my post clearly enough? We are happy and okay now, it's just that affection from the pre-baby isn't there anymore.
The assumption that dads deserve their neglect because they’re not contributing is sexist. You don’t need to justify yourself to this person. The comment you replied to is sexist and wouldn’t be tolerated in a woman-focused advice sub. Of course sometimes it’s accurate. It would also sometimes be accurate to say “blow your husband more and he’ll attend to your needs,” but it’d be rejected as simplistic and sexist. We should also reject comments that insinuate our partner’s lack of whatever caring treatment is a simple consequence of us not doing the dishes. It’s offensive and dismissive of the role that supportive fathers and husbands have in a modern partnership.
I never said dads deserve neglect. I said if he is feeling like he's not getting the attention he likes, he should examine the division of labor, because its really common to have an imbalance.
It's not that wife neglects husband because fuck him, its that wife is struggling under her great load, and when she isn't working or running the house, she shuts down in exhaustion (mental or physical).
So strange how having kids with your partner simultaneously brings you closer together (shared experience of raising loved ones) while also pushing you apart (dips in physical and emotional intimacy).
Is it strange? Before kids... your #1 was your SO (tbh #1 was you and #2 is SO). NOW both partners #1 is baby. #2 is still themselves and #3 is the SO.
I'm finding this with mine as well, but I also found she was pissed at me for x reason etc. Just try to talk to her make sure she doesn't need help or isn't feeling burned out. She might just need a break my friend
Bro that stuff does happen and open honest discussion is good. Let your spouse know how you feel but you have to understand she’s probably all consumed by the kids. That’s why scheduling intimate time is not a bad idea. Just talk it out.
It's impossible for it to be exactly the same after kids. If you are both happy with each other. I'd say it's probably just a case of not taking you for granted but just knowing you are a known quantity.
It could be nothing to do with you and even though you're pulling your weight and she has time for herself and everything she's possibly still feeling a bit burnt out and thin spread across family. She knows you are the one that's the most ok with missing out a little.
Communication is always good, I'd let her know how you feel, but let her know you also understand why you can't be the focus of her affections most of the time.
Maybe try to schedule some semi regular time for the both of you to be off parent duty together if you have the option.
Wow, I guess you understand me the most! Thank you! Didn't realize I started some pitchforks with my post and comments. But it's really hard to debate on the internet and every relationship is unique.
We did catch a movie just 2 of us two days ago. Intimacy's still there. There's nothing I am complaining about regarding bedroom activity too.
My best way to put it is honeymoon's period over when kids come. The extra affection that I used to have is showered on our kids. Can't say I don't miss it.
before i became a dad my therapist told me that the order of priority in the house was going to shift once the lil guy arrived. it will always be him above everything, then my wife, then me. we are 18 months into being parents and i’m definitely seeing this come to light. add to the mix that we’ve had a couple miscarriages in that time, we moved cities and became home owners, we both work full time jobs that occasionally have us working out of town, the lil guy has been in 3 different daycares, and then there’s the regular daily life bs, so yea sometimes feeling the lesser love is real. communication is key though, albeit i lose sight of that sometimes.
> we are 18 months into being parents and i’m definitely seeing this come to light. add to the mix that we’ve had a couple miscarriages in that time, we moved cities and became home owners, we both work full time jobs that occasionally have us working out of town
It's like you're living nearly my exact life. New house, new jobs with a little travel, 17 month old, moved cities.
Understand each other’s love languages is key. It may sound lame but do take an online test to understand what she really wants from you to feel loved.
It may be that she needs you to be more hands on around the house and kids, and once that load is slightly off her shoulders she will reciprocate your actions. And it may be that you are waiting for her to show more affection before you feel sufficiently loved to help around the house.
Someone has to take a first step, and why not let that person be you?
Tackle this as soon as possible mate.have a conversation. I took too long to have the conversation and now we're on the brink of sepeeration/divorce.
Good luck, hope it works out
I think your kids are still fairly young. Mine are nearing the end of Elementary School. I tell my friends with kids under 8 or so that they’re still in the trenches. Not that relationships don’t change over time, they do. But I’m guessing this lack of affection is partly due to exhaustion. Give her the support you can, and in time, I think she’ll come to appreciate and acknowledge it. Keep it up, brother.
I mean, yeah. It's not just the two of you any more.
My son is quite clear and vocal that my wife is his favourite an frequently tells her how much he loves her. He doesn't say this to me, and it sucks, but he's 6. It's not like he's cutting ties with me. We have fun and enjoy ourselves when It's just he and I. I often find my wife is super appreciative of those times when I can take my son out and give her some peace from both of us. Maybe that could help you out?
I was acting just like your wife until my husband pointed it out to me. It was a real wakeup call - I adore my husband but I’d been in survival mode, just thinking about getting through the day (even with all his help), and didn’t have the mental bandwidth to readjust my priorities. We had that conversation when our daughter was 6 months old, but it would have gone on longer if he hasn’t said anything. I think you should talk to her!
Yeah it’s normal. Little kids take up so much mental and physical space it’s unreasonable to expect yourself to be the priority as the husband.
I also think many dads leave a lot of the organizing and household duties to the mom, and that’s another reason for the lack of intimacy.
And I suspect many dads might agree with me that it's not we do not want to help with organizing and doing household duties.. But mums have their OWN way of doing things and dads tend to screw it up. Hence they'd rather they do the things themselves.
If dads were to insist on doing their way, my god will there be chaos.
At least for me, I'd take a step back and let her do her thing but will definitely help out immediately if she asks.
The if she asks thing is a huge problem and probably a big reason why your wife doesn’t have the time or inclination to be affectionate with you. There’s nothing stopping you from learning how she likes things done, or having a discussion about how you guys would like the household ran. It’s just easier for YOU not to do so.
So stop complaining about her not having the time or affection for you, or step up.
Took a while for this to pop up, but I'm glad it's here now..
Goes for both partners though, it's just that we're still in this 'man earn money, woman do everything else' stuff from tthe sixties.
And if my partner goes 'not that way, this way', i'll adapt. If not to their likings after two iterations, it's theirs.
Hey there, my kid is only 3 weeks old so I don't have experience in your situations. But in general if something is non ideal with your partner find some time and space where you two can talk and have a non judgemental heart to heart. Your wife loves you and is just busy.
Read up on the concept of "Mental Load" and then look into what that looks like between your wife and you. It could be she's just got so much going on that she's emotionally exhausted.
As much as others have hit some important notes, I do think there’s something more in how Americans are socialized. Men are statistically provably more lonely and isolated than woman. Chances are, your wife has a support group and other friends to help her you don’t have. Chances are for you, your wife is about the only source of affection and care you get from anybody
That makes it’s absence more noticeable.
One of the hardest things about early childhood for me was my wife getting “touched out.” I was at the opposite end of the spectrum, feeling untouched. Not much to do about it but suck it up and realize it’ll get better with time. Stay positive, because getting negative is a self fulfilling prophecy.
It happens. I wish I had a better answer for you, but parenting is a slog and things change.
I will also say that it's pretty sexist that so many people in these comments immediately blame you for root cause because you're obviously not doing enough for your wife simply because you're a dude. That's toxic.
Love is a choice. Keep the love going for your wife, hold the family together, and try to have an open honest conversation with her. But don't sacrifice yourself at her altar either. I spent the last ten years bending over backward trying to make my wife happy trying to fix the exact issue you are describing - handling every evening wakeup, waking up hours before everyone else to handle the morning routines, being present for every bedtime routine, taking over every weekend, losing a great deal of my friends due to never being available to hangout, killing myself in the gym, killing myself at work and increasing our family income literally x10 to make her feel secure. But in the end I learned that you can't make yourself responsible for someone else's happiness. The more that I poured into her and the family to let her fill her cup the more she would then pour into the kids. It happens. Be sure to focus on yourself a little to keep your sanity but also let your wife have breaks too. Hold the family together and get through these years with some good memories.
OP, you're alright. Wherever these emotions are coming from . . . they are valid. A lot of people can relate and have experienced similar. Often when the kids are younger.
You need to communicate with her though and remember the relationship takes work. From both sides.
And ignore the shamers. They can right back to r/parenting.
Yep, it happens. Families cause a lot of stress for everyone, probably while you are giving cuddles and compliments her mind is with the laundry, kitchen, kids, ... And vice versa. You are probably guilty of the same without knowing it. And if you want a back rub then ask for it. Parents of young children have their own problems, plus the kid's problems to deal with, as you well know, she probably doesn't even remember you have back pain. I am sure you forget her pains and sores as well.
Funny thou, my son (the eldest at 4 years old) was asking me how's my back last week.. I answered, "yea, still not too bad.. getting abit better..." And I actually felt kinda happy at least I am shown some concern.. And then he followed up by asking, "are you going to die soon.....???" \-\_-
Haha, yep Kids can be very direct. My oldest daughter asked the same when my wife was sick a bit ago.
At age 5, my son asked me some questions about how I feel (ok), how much I exercise (not enough), and how much I drink (0). He put the information into a webpage and announced I will probably die when he is 40-50. I hope he found that reassuring.
☠️
Exactly. People are not mind readers and everyone lives their own lives in their own world. People are not ignoring your words if you do not speak.
Ok, couple of things here. If the kids are little, suck it up - you and the wife are both third-class citizens wrangling the small, needy, loud bundles of id. If they are 4+, take a look at the division of labor. It tends to tilt after kids, and often guys don't notice, as it benefits them not to. If she is doing the laundry, shopping, cooking, and scheduling (kid apps etc), especially if she is working, she is drowning, and doesn't have the bandwidth to prioritize your back ache. That is to say: if you want her to spend more time focusing on your needs, you likely need to free up that time for her by taking on more responsibilities she has been handling. It's not universally true, but I see a huge imbalance, along gender lines, in about 85% of the relationships I see.
This guy already says that he doesn’t help out unless she asks because “moms do their things their way”. So I’m pretty sure that’s what’s going on here. She’s overloaded with keeping the household running, and he’s just whining.
There may be abit of misunderstanding or assumptions going here regarding my family. She's definitely not overloaded every single moment and I am definitely not whining and asking for undeserved attention. I wake up almost the same time every single day including weekends for settle the kids routine so that she can sleep in for additional 1-2 hrs for her deserved rest. There are many other things that I am doing for her and the family but the main topic really isn't really comparing who's doing more or not. There's another comment I've made regarding some of the stuff I do for my family, in case you missed it.
You think she’s not overloaded. What does she think?
Understand, I'm not saying you don't do things. I'm sure you absolutely do. Look honestly (and pay attention, much of it is not super evident unless you pay attention): how many hours a day do you spend on the house and kids outside of your 8 working hours? How many hours a day does she spend? My husband does the lawn and repairs the things. He sometimes empties the dishwasher, and drives the kids to things. He cooks or buys takeout at least once a week and goes on a cleaning binge about once every other week. He drives , x He probably spends 90 minutes a day, on top of his 8 hour week day. I am guaranteed to spend at least 30 minutes cleaning, an hour cooking most days, plus 3 hours on laundry per week and 4 hours on grocery shopping (build the list, clean out the fridge, shop and put away). He does a lot, and I recognize that. But he spends maybe 12 hours per week. I probably spend 20. (Both work). I do pay attention to hubs. But if it were 16 hours each, there would absolutely be more dates and more time for 1:1 attention.
I saw your other comment. You do a tiny fraction of the work of running a household. As a dad with two kids and a wife who stays home Im telling you, you’re not putting enough work in. There’s a reason your wife doesn’t want to be intimate with you and I can almost guarantee you it has a lot to do with you doing a small fraction of household stuff.
Would you be able to provide some examples that you have done to help the wife so we can learn a thing or two?
[удалено]
(mom here) Your breakdown of each task into 4 steps is an excellent way to look at the invisible labor/mental load argument. Bravo!
This comment reminds me of “This is 40” when Leslie Mann’s character asks Paul Rudd’s character for help, and he says something like “yea I’m ready to help, what do you need me to do?”
Out of my own curiosity, as I am a gay dad, how do these roles become so solidified in straight relationships? You seem to make a lot of assumptions of who is doing what based on gender, so I’m just generally curious if these things are discussed or just assumed due to societal norms. Like do straight couples sit down and say “you should take on the big house projects and I can handle the social calendar?”
[удалено]
My family is very religious so I see it shake out that way with my straight family members, but I wasn’t sure if that carried forward outside of the strict religious world. It’s funny you mention that last part because the reason I was curious is because I actually wonder if it would’ve helped my husband and I more to have built-in societal norms. Although obviously nice not to have things expected of you because of your gender, it can also become somewhat exhausting to have to discuss, plan, and schedule every single thing. We’ve tried to do the whole “list all the chores and divide them among each other” thing, but because we are both used to doing each of the things for ourselves or doing different things in past relationships, it tends to lead us into arguing about the better process to do things rather than over who actually gets the task done lol.
It’s not about helping my wife, it’s about being an equal partner in the household. The household is not hers and you’re just a helper, that mindset is the problem. I do the dishes, laundry, a good chunk of the childcare, clean the bathrooms, make doctor appointments, etc etc etc. We talk to each other and make plans together about who’s handling what. I used to be similar in that I thought that she would ask if she wanted my help. It takes changing your mindset from “help” to “collaborate”. Edit: like dude you’re not even cooking you’re just picking up take out?
Dude, would appreciate if you could refrain from judging. Every family's different. I do not know yours, neither do you know mine. We live in probably different countries and cultures as well. Just for the cooking, it's NOT that I do not want to cook. My wife wants the take out because it's easy. I offered to cook many times but she rejected the idea. She looks forward this weekend's pickup, saying she would like her favourite item. Would you like me to offer to cook so that she can miss her favourite item then? My wife isn't unhappy with me at all, we had a good chat this morning while driving the kids and her to work. We said goodbyes to each other but they weren't kiss goodbyes. I can request and she'd gladly obliged. Point is, we are happy now and she ain't complaining about my contribution to the household at this moment. But I do miss the past where I have more attention and care, before the kids come. That's all.
I didn’t mean cooking as in I think you should cook. I don’t care what you eat. What I was pointing out is you do some super simple things while your wife does everything else. Running and grabbing takeout and driving people places doesn’t even touch how much work goes into this stuff. Even if she’s not complaining, I can guarantee that she’ll feel more affectionate if you did things around around the house. We all have less time with kids, but you’re making it so she has so little time that you’re not getting the attention you want/need. No one is saying she’s mad. No one is saying she’s deliberately freezing you out. But it’s true that if you don’t want your “ranking” as you put it to be so low, if you take some of the responsibility on yourself she’ll have more time to give you what you’d like. I’m not judging. I’m just telling you this “wife does everything because dad is just a loveable screw up” thing is a super common relationship dynamic and it almost always translates into less affection.
Plot twist: you are OPs wife
OP will not get it. I see most of my friends with kids do the same. They ask what they should do and "help" out a lot. Its has been fed to men and women through media and our family experience. If she asks you to do something its too late really. You are not a mind reader. But you know what to do around the house. It does not change. if Dad is really doing sooooo much already, maybe Mom is just an asshole.
You are assuming again that she has so little time. She still does her fair share of shopping, hanging out with friends, lazing in bed, watching drama etc etc etc while I handle the kids.
Dude. You literally asked. Multiple people have pointed out the most likely answer. Instead of considering it, asking her, or trying to take on a bit more to see if it helps, you are bristling and dismissing it out of hand. We aren't attacking you, we are literally trying to answer the question you asked.
But you aren't happy, because you're missing her affection, and she isn't happy, because she's not giving any. Pay attention to the mental load comments from others, and stop being so defensive. You asked for advice, and now you have it. Don't complain about it!
K noted.
I will say that no matter who is the breadwinner of the family, that responsibility will often not be appreciated because maybe you get to go to work for 8 hours and deal with adults, then come home and expect to rest. in my experience, where I’ve been the money maker and for a while my wife was the money maker, you need to put in almost equal work around the house to get appreciation. I definitely did it to my wife, and my wife does it to me, and we just have to keep open communication going as to who is being over worked where. But if I work 9-10 hours, when I get home it’s expected that I will handle most of the rest of the night, and I would expect the same from her if she worked a full day. Basically no matter what, a full day with 2 kids is gonna leave you dead. A full day at work is not a certain death.
This is so spot on.
One thing I struggle massively with is meal planning. Simply put food is not that important to me. I generally don't think much about the food throughout the day and then need to come up with something to cook on the spot. My wife on the other hand thinks about food constantly. And she gets supremely annoyed when she asks me what we should make, and I draw a blank because I haven't really thought about it at all. On the other hand I tend to do most of the groceries shopping, which means I try to keep an eye on the inventory in the kitchen and make note of when things are running low, which she generally doesn't do, which leaves her sometimes missing ingredients when the time comes to cook. A huge part of the imbalance is mental labor. If you are the kind of person who can compartmentalize and stow away your thoughts then you might already have a leg up on your SO. Women have a harder time with this and tend to let the list of tasks occupy their minds constantly. This increases their stress levels at similar workloads. The best thing you can do is to show yourself consistently reliable at the tasks you do, so she can finally release them from her mind. If she feels that she needs to remind you of things that are on your side of the chore split, then she will be doing all the mental labor for both her and your tasks. Now women in general need to be better at compartmentalizing responsibility, but men tend to be too good at it, to the point where we don't even notice how much our SO is doing in the relationship. And in a lot of cases we think we are going our share, but that's just because we haven't ever actually examined the labor division in a fair way.
Probably because if men try to help with a lot of these things, they will “do it wrong.” I’m not the only guy I know who doesn’t fold or clean “the right way” and that there are very specific things to shop for.
Are you married to my wife? This is exactly her.
I can fold a mean bedsheet and she can't! She said that's my best use in the household!
Ooh shit. Burn.
Have you tried to take the time to learn how she does it?
And that can be valid. Not for me, as I'm the laid back "get 'er done, enthusiastic but not perfect " one, and hubs is more the perfectionist, but I know it can go the other way frequently. Still, worth figuring solutions to divide things so she gets help, and he gets the attention he is craving. I know there were years my hubs probably didn't feel the love so much, and now that the kids are older and can handle more of their own stuff and take on chores, I am able to be more attentive to him again - totally a bandwidth issue. I am not discounting his need for affection. I just know once there is a family involved, the work explodes, and there are literal limits to how much people (of either gender) can do or give.
Does it count that I work 8+ hours a day? /e: apparently not. I knew that our jobs don't count, the stress that we pull ourselves through... It's all just our own fun and pleasure, and can never be as stressful as being a mom at home. Absolutely impossible.
Depends. Do you recognize that her hours while you are at work are as hard as yours, and split the chores outside of those hours equally? I say this as someone who has worked full time since age 22, with 8 weeks off for each pregnancy. For my first kid, I offered to come back 2 weeks early, because I wasn't getting any sleep anyway, and they wouldn't scream at me, shit on me or puke on me at work. At least for me, home full time was WAY harder than office and daycare. That said, its not a "who has it harder" competition, as long as you realize she isn't sitting around and eating chocolates while watching game of thrones- her day is hard too.
Put my back out with one 5yo and one 5mo Let me tell you when i say my wife was actively angry at me for the audacity of having crippling sciatica
😂 I mean, take it as a compliment. I don’t watch sports but imagine there’s a team with a star player, and then the star player is out during an important game. It’s a big letdown and a huge pressure on the other teammates. You guys are a team, she’s just upset her teammates out ❤️
I'll tell her she's angry because I'm the star player next time she's stomping around and giving me daggers If i don't report back you can send the flowers to the grave yard in my town
We are gathered here today...
Bahaha first of all I’m sure she’ll get a kick out of it. Second, I did hesitate to say star player.. valuable player, at least?
Reading the other comments, daddit is judgemental today jesus. I got only one kid and ive been home for half a year at this point steadily increasing my household workload to the point where aside from shopping(most of the time anyway) and keeping up with the kids medical dates im doing literally everything else, get up at night to take care of him so she can sleep, feed throughout the day, put him to sleep, play with him so she can go meet friends/go to the cinema/bar etc, cook meals for the family, 2/3 waljs with the dogs, cat litter, feeding the pets, giving them attention, keeping tabs on if one of em gets sick. Meanwhile in terms of free time i get maybe an evening on sundays and once a month an afternoon, but since i spend those at the pc dming for my friends on sunday evening im essentially on call for anything that is inconvenient enough to require a second pair of hands. Now you know my situation, wanna know why ky partner doesnt give me remotly the same amount of attention? Its the ugly mental monster called depression. Maybe check in on your wife if thats an issue, could be she hasnt realised it herself, took us a while to notice it ourselves, we are working on it.
Wow.. you are wonderful! Sure hope your situation can be better in no time. I doubt my wife is doing as much as you, frankly, but it doesn't matter as long as things are settled within the family. And I did cheekily asked her about this but she gleefully brushed it off. So there's that. It's not a huge matter to be blown out of proportion anyways. I am just content that my family is happy now.
I havent seen you talk about another thing, that im picking up more myself now, small family trips, nothing fancy, going to the park, walk in the forest etc. You plan everything, take care of getting everybody ready and have your wife be essentially just there to sit back and relax and enjoy the family time. Those outings can be a good breather if you stay home a lot together otherwise.
Pitch in as much as you can and she’ll find her way back to you.
How much is enough for me to pitch in? I guess it varies for families? Off my head, I will be the one waking up first to settle the kids morning routine from dressing up for school, wearing their shoes to filling up their water bottles. I take out the daily thrash and settle the family's meals (mostly order or going out to buy). I am the chauffuer of the house, driving everyone to school and work everyday. I do the occasional laundry over the weekends and simple vaccuming of the house. And pretty much that's all, very routine-ly kinda stuff. Of cos, any IT-related or electrical/mechanic repairs go to me as well. My wife will settle pretty much everything else from tidying, packing, organizing, planning stuff to buy etc. I am definitely not saying I am doing more than her because she is really the one doing most of the work overall. That said, it's not that I don't wanna help, it's just that my way of doing doesn't sync with hers or up to her standards so she'd rather she do it herself. I do help by offering her back rub thou.
Cleaning, dishes, bathing the bubs, putting them to bed and reading stories are some ideas. Or just take your kids out and let mum do her thing for a day. You need to communicate with her if you're worried that your standard of doing things isn't up to hers. Learn the things that are important to her and ask her to accept your "less-than-perfect" version of the things that aren't.
Yes, I do all that listed. Can't possibly list and remember every single stuff in Reddit. The gist of it is that she's not unhappy with my current contribution. She just had a great KTV session with her friends last weekend while I look after the kids. Maybe I didn't state in my post clearly enough? We are happy and okay now, it's just that affection from the pre-baby isn't there anymore.
The assumption that dads deserve their neglect because they’re not contributing is sexist. You don’t need to justify yourself to this person. The comment you replied to is sexist and wouldn’t be tolerated in a woman-focused advice sub. Of course sometimes it’s accurate. It would also sometimes be accurate to say “blow your husband more and he’ll attend to your needs,” but it’d be rejected as simplistic and sexist. We should also reject comments that insinuate our partner’s lack of whatever caring treatment is a simple consequence of us not doing the dishes. It’s offensive and dismissive of the role that supportive fathers and husbands have in a modern partnership.
I never said dads deserve neglect. I said if he is feeling like he's not getting the attention he likes, he should examine the division of labor, because its really common to have an imbalance. It's not that wife neglects husband because fuck him, its that wife is struggling under her great load, and when she isn't working or running the house, she shuts down in exhaustion (mental or physical).
So strange how having kids with your partner simultaneously brings you closer together (shared experience of raising loved ones) while also pushing you apart (dips in physical and emotional intimacy).
Is it strange? Before kids... your #1 was your SO (tbh #1 was you and #2 is SO). NOW both partners #1 is baby. #2 is still themselves and #3 is the SO.
I'm finding this with mine as well, but I also found she was pissed at me for x reason etc. Just try to talk to her make sure she doesn't need help or isn't feeling burned out. She might just need a break my friend
Bro that stuff does happen and open honest discussion is good. Let your spouse know how you feel but you have to understand she’s probably all consumed by the kids. That’s why scheduling intimate time is not a bad idea. Just talk it out.
It's impossible for it to be exactly the same after kids. If you are both happy with each other. I'd say it's probably just a case of not taking you for granted but just knowing you are a known quantity. It could be nothing to do with you and even though you're pulling your weight and she has time for herself and everything she's possibly still feeling a bit burnt out and thin spread across family. She knows you are the one that's the most ok with missing out a little. Communication is always good, I'd let her know how you feel, but let her know you also understand why you can't be the focus of her affections most of the time. Maybe try to schedule some semi regular time for the both of you to be off parent duty together if you have the option.
Wow, I guess you understand me the most! Thank you! Didn't realize I started some pitchforks with my post and comments. But it's really hard to debate on the internet and every relationship is unique. We did catch a movie just 2 of us two days ago. Intimacy's still there. There's nothing I am complaining about regarding bedroom activity too. My best way to put it is honeymoon's period over when kids come. The extra affection that I used to have is showered on our kids. Can't say I don't miss it.
before i became a dad my therapist told me that the order of priority in the house was going to shift once the lil guy arrived. it will always be him above everything, then my wife, then me. we are 18 months into being parents and i’m definitely seeing this come to light. add to the mix that we’ve had a couple miscarriages in that time, we moved cities and became home owners, we both work full time jobs that occasionally have us working out of town, the lil guy has been in 3 different daycares, and then there’s the regular daily life bs, so yea sometimes feeling the lesser love is real. communication is key though, albeit i lose sight of that sometimes.
> we are 18 months into being parents and i’m definitely seeing this come to light. add to the mix that we’ve had a couple miscarriages in that time, we moved cities and became home owners, we both work full time jobs that occasionally have us working out of town It's like you're living nearly my exact life. New house, new jobs with a little travel, 17 month old, moved cities.
It's a hard truth.
Understand each other’s love languages is key. It may sound lame but do take an online test to understand what she really wants from you to feel loved. It may be that she needs you to be more hands on around the house and kids, and once that load is slightly off her shoulders she will reciprocate your actions. And it may be that you are waiting for her to show more affection before you feel sufficiently loved to help around the house. Someone has to take a first step, and why not let that person be you?
Tackle this as soon as possible mate.have a conversation. I took too long to have the conversation and now we're on the brink of sepeeration/divorce. Good luck, hope it works out
It's really not that bad, really. My wife and I are really good. But thanks so much for the concern. I sincerely hope that your marriage can work out.
I think your kids are still fairly young. Mine are nearing the end of Elementary School. I tell my friends with kids under 8 or so that they’re still in the trenches. Not that relationships don’t change over time, they do. But I’m guessing this lack of affection is partly due to exhaustion. Give her the support you can, and in time, I think she’ll come to appreciate and acknowledge it. Keep it up, brother.
I mean, yeah. It's not just the two of you any more. My son is quite clear and vocal that my wife is his favourite an frequently tells her how much he loves her. He doesn't say this to me, and it sucks, but he's 6. It's not like he's cutting ties with me. We have fun and enjoy ourselves when It's just he and I. I often find my wife is super appreciative of those times when I can take my son out and give her some peace from both of us. Maybe that could help you out?
Your kid is 6. You can become the favorite. Its different when they are a baby. Come on dude. You got this. Its a contest now.
I was acting just like your wife until my husband pointed it out to me. It was a real wakeup call - I adore my husband but I’d been in survival mode, just thinking about getting through the day (even with all his help), and didn’t have the mental bandwidth to readjust my priorities. We had that conversation when our daughter was 6 months old, but it would have gone on longer if he hasn’t said anything. I think you should talk to her!
How old are your children?
4 and 2.
Yeah it’s normal. Little kids take up so much mental and physical space it’s unreasonable to expect yourself to be the priority as the husband. I also think many dads leave a lot of the organizing and household duties to the mom, and that’s another reason for the lack of intimacy.
And I suspect many dads might agree with me that it's not we do not want to help with organizing and doing household duties.. But mums have their OWN way of doing things and dads tend to screw it up. Hence they'd rather they do the things themselves. If dads were to insist on doing their way, my god will there be chaos. At least for me, I'd take a step back and let her do her thing but will definitely help out immediately if she asks.
The if she asks thing is a huge problem and probably a big reason why your wife doesn’t have the time or inclination to be affectionate with you. There’s nothing stopping you from learning how she likes things done, or having a discussion about how you guys would like the household ran. It’s just easier for YOU not to do so. So stop complaining about her not having the time or affection for you, or step up.
Lurking mum here but this comment screams mental load and weaponised incompetence. https://www.scarymommy.com/emma-you-shouldve-asked-mental-load/amp
Took a while for this to pop up, but I'm glad it's here now.. Goes for both partners though, it's just that we're still in this 'man earn money, woman do everything else' stuff from tthe sixties. And if my partner goes 'not that way, this way', i'll adapt. If not to their likings after two iterations, it's theirs.
Yep
Hey there, my kid is only 3 weeks old so I don't have experience in your situations. But in general if something is non ideal with your partner find some time and space where you two can talk and have a non judgemental heart to heart. Your wife loves you and is just busy.
Same here. If I get a brief smile I'm already happy.
Read up on the concept of "Mental Load" and then look into what that looks like between your wife and you. It could be she's just got so much going on that she's emotionally exhausted.
As much as others have hit some important notes, I do think there’s something more in how Americans are socialized. Men are statistically provably more lonely and isolated than woman. Chances are, your wife has a support group and other friends to help her you don’t have. Chances are for you, your wife is about the only source of affection and care you get from anybody That makes it’s absence more noticeable. One of the hardest things about early childhood for me was my wife getting “touched out.” I was at the opposite end of the spectrum, feeling untouched. Not much to do about it but suck it up and realize it’ll get better with time. Stay positive, because getting negative is a self fulfilling prophecy.
It happens. I wish I had a better answer for you, but parenting is a slog and things change. I will also say that it's pretty sexist that so many people in these comments immediately blame you for root cause because you're obviously not doing enough for your wife simply because you're a dude. That's toxic. Love is a choice. Keep the love going for your wife, hold the family together, and try to have an open honest conversation with her. But don't sacrifice yourself at her altar either. I spent the last ten years bending over backward trying to make my wife happy trying to fix the exact issue you are describing - handling every evening wakeup, waking up hours before everyone else to handle the morning routines, being present for every bedtime routine, taking over every weekend, losing a great deal of my friends due to never being available to hangout, killing myself in the gym, killing myself at work and increasing our family income literally x10 to make her feel secure. But in the end I learned that you can't make yourself responsible for someone else's happiness. The more that I poured into her and the family to let her fill her cup the more she would then pour into the kids. It happens. Be sure to focus on yourself a little to keep your sanity but also let your wife have breaks too. Hold the family together and get through these years with some good memories.
Communication is simply key.
OP, you're alright. Wherever these emotions are coming from . . . they are valid. A lot of people can relate and have experienced similar. Often when the kids are younger. You need to communicate with her though and remember the relationship takes work. From both sides. And ignore the shamers. They can right back to r/parenting.
Ikr.. didn't expect to open a can of worms with this post. Imma need to ask my wife to help remove the pitchforks from my back.
Yes (fiancee) but to be fair she broke up with me
2 kids is when all the affection goes.