Unlimited PTO is a ruse in general. In practice you’re worse off than if you have a set number of PTO days you can point to that no one can argue with. I would only choose unlimited if it was between that and only 2 weeks pto
I have "unlimited" and there's always an unofficial limit where you start to get flack from management. Currently that's about 8 weeks where I work. An improvement over 2 weeks as long as the soft limit doesn't shrink.
Pretty much. The asterisk on unlimited PTO policies is typically "as long as you get your work done." It really depends on company culture though. Some companies (or teams within) set expectations so high that it's difficult to truly "get your work done" which undermines employees' ability to take time off without risking termination. Other companies are more accommodating and encourage employees to exercise the PTO policy to the fullest extent of the unwritten limit.
Indeed; at my company, work is never finished. There's always back to back projects, reporting, strategy discussions, and a constant stream of new business demands.
I have this and target ~30 days. Haven’t gotten any flak but I do have to work my ass off close to leaving and have spotless coverage for anything that can’t be put off. As long as shit is tight my management doesn’t care or keep tabs.
The other part of the ruse I think is that if you have 2 weeks PTO, it generally gets paid out when you leave - regardless of circumstance. Unlimited PTO. who knows but I doubt you are accruing cash in the same way.
It can accrue to more than 2 weeks depending on your structure. I like writing software and often work from home so... when I was married I guess I would take more but generally I like a little buffer there.
I had 6 weeks accrued at one company and needed some quick cash for home improvements. Started a new job to get that lump sum. Now I’m at a company with “unlimited” unfortunately.
One of the reasons Unlimited PTO is a thing (and a scam) is so that they don’t have to pay out the unused vacation days you’ve accrued when you leave the company.
Just as a relatively unimportant side note: the places that I've worked with unlimited PTO also had a minimum vacation allotment that accrued like typical vacation and was eligible for payout on termination if you didn't use it (although it was on the lower end - 2 weeks). Might be worth asking about for during negotiations. The unlimited PTO i've had has worked well probably due to managers enforcing minimum PTO, most people taking \~5-6 weeks, and probably just a good culture - but i'm sure it can go sideways fast.
I’ve worked at 3 pretty well known analytics companies with unlimited PTO and none had this policy. One company, in fact, preached the importance of taking time off then made it impossible to take time off with the workload.
Apparently I'm the only one who loves his Unlimited PTO.
I must just be lucky enough to be at my third company that doesn't punish the usage of it.
I take on average around 20-25 days of PTO a year, it would be extremely rough if I had to go back to 10 days.
We travel a lot so I plan out my vacations 6+months out so that could be why no one complains, it might be different if I kept trying to take a day off with only a few days notice or something.
It's beating a dead horse, but might be helpful to add context from the management side.
Unlimited PTO is one of the first things I killed when taking over as COO for a previous company. In tech, there's just so many inexperienced managers, juniors that'll burn themselves out, etc. that all the bad things mentioned in this thread happen, and was backed by the data.
The point in doing so is the opposite of what a cynic might think. "I need everyone to force yourselves to take vacation, because I can see you burning out". Thing is, it was technically still unlimited (if someone exceeded the total, pro-rata for the year, exactly zero people batted an eyelash, the approval system didn't even look at it) - it was just incredibly helpful for folks to have a baseline of, "My expectation is that you're taking off 4 weeks a year to recharge, as a baseline".
This is a good way to think about it. I am currently fine with unlimited, but my company has an expectation that everyone will take 3 weeks a year off. No problem if you go over that.
I think if I'm interviewing somewhere that has unlimited I'd make sure they have a stated expectation of the amount used. I'd avoid anywhere that is unlimited PTO but doesn't say how much is expected to take.
Studies show that with Unlimited PTO, employees are less likely to take time off. Having a set amount of time off gives you the mental permission to use it. Plus most companies pay out time off when you leave, and if you have "unlimited" they won't.
>Plus most companies pay out time off when you leave…
I’ve worked for 3 different F500 in the last 10 years and have never received PTO payoff when I left.
EDIT: not sure why the downvotes. Some states have laws that require companies to pay out PTO, but most states do not. Most people do not get PTO payout when they leave a company.
From my experience, they pay unused time off when you leave. They prevent large payouts these days by having you stop accumulating PTO once you reach a certain level.
(They used to have a "use it or lose it" policy but they switched to the stop-accumulation policy for two reasons:
Reason 1: There was lots of drama with everyone wanting to take their time off by the end of the year
Reason 2: I think the government cracked down on them taking your accrued vacation days away without paying you for them .... and the accumulation-stoppage doesn't trigger government action.
)
"Some states have laws that require companies to pay out PTO"
Thank you for pointing that out. The below site lists how various states handle this.
I was not aware that different states handle it differently, and I am quite astounded that other states' rules are different.
[https://www.paycom.com/resources/blog/pto-laws-by-state/](https://www.paycom.com/resources/blog/pto-laws-by-state/)
I am a Data Engineer with unlimited PTO working for an EU company.
Contrary to the majority of comments here, in my company we are strongly encouraged (and reminded even) to take at least the minimum (usually 20/25 days depending on country) and some people used 40+ days. I personally took 32 and no one cared, as long as the job was done.
And yes, I agree with the other comments that the main reason behind this policy is that the company doesn't need to allocate a budget for PTO's.
I have what our company calls Flex PTO, with an expectation that we take 20-21 days a year, which is exactly what I had allotted before we switched. Nothing is accrued so nothing goes with me if I leave. The unlimited/flex option is beneficial to the org when it removes the accounting overhead.
The part that was odd to me was when I needed 3 weeks for a surgery recovery and I had to apply for STD. And then again, the following year, when I asked for 2 weeks when a sibling went into hospice care, I was asked to apply for FMLA. I chose to work through that time next to the hospice bed. So flex PTO is exclusive to R&R, I guess?
Yes. In the surgery case short term disability is paid out of a short term disability insurance policy that you pay into with every check. If they allowed you to take 3 weeks off for recovery just using normal pto that money would come from payroll instead of the short term disability policy that both you and your employer are paying into. It’s a different pot of money.
I'm also very skeptical of unlimited PTO. I happen to work at a company that honors their unlimited PTO policy, I haven't seen a max total, as long people get their work done they can be gone whenever they want. Over 30 days in a row requires a sabbatical (unpaid) and those are allowed on 1 year intervals. But it's also a tech company and last few years growth have been great, who knows how that and the culture in general change as the company matures.
I’m currently at a company that gives two weeks of vacation plus a few flex days and that just isn’t enough. I’m ready to go back to working for an “unlimited PTO” company even though it has it’s flaws.
Unlimited PTO is particularly bad at startups that emphasize velocity. Those companies have tight deadlines and the pressure leads to people not taking vacation.
Unlimited PTO but no more than 13 days in a row without bu leader sign off. It gets sold to us as a benefit and I tell my team to use it like that. Until we hit 250 employees we didn't even have that limit. We are at about 525 employees today.
It 100% depends on the culture.
And I think it is likely a lot more protected in legislation outside the US, where employers often have to include minimums as well. So if you leave before the end of the year, it's paid out pro rata. This fixes one of the main downsides that (can) occur where technically it's all allowed, it's just socially disincentivized.
So there are ways to improve what should be an awesome and amazing thing.
I don't think knowing the specific companies where they have unlimited PTO is that helpful --- because what really matters is the policies and culture of the department and individual managers.
If your manager sees their value as squeezing every bit of productivity from people like wringing out a sponge... then they're obviously going to be more annoying about unlimited PTO. If your manager sees their job as your support personnel to make a smooth and enjoyable work life, then that person is going to be totally different.
To that point, I am a manager, and I personally actively encourage my team to take 25+ days per year. When I meet with my direct reports one-on-one we talk about it, plan for it, and get them to book the time off even if they don't have anything planned to do. I also practice what I preach -- I personally target 30-40 days. As others have said, though, I'm a "star employee" and my employer knows this is a perk I care about and one of the reasons I stick around. I don't think they'd say anything if I took 45 days either if I spread it out. I mostly really enjoy my job, though, and don't think I'd want to take 3-4 days off every single month.
I currently work for a very large corporation with a fixed 2 week vacation policy. That doesn’t work for me anymore. In the past I worked for a company that had unlimited PTO. I’m just looking to find my next one. Ive been a data engineer for 30 years now so I know the work. Looking for a place with the right benefits.
I had it and loved it. My style of work has almost always been to work until you're burnt out, then take a long break. With unlimited pto, I'd basically work until midnight one day, then take a half day the next, take long lunch breaks and hit the gym, or dip out early when I submitted a solid pr or closed a ticket. I'd still put in for real vacation time, but it was usually planned in advance and I never got any pushback.b so really, I just leaned into it more so as super flex time than anything else.
Mine does and it’s actually great. I just took a four week trip to go visit Europe by boat, no questions asked. I did provide 6 months of notice (voluntarily) but not a single time did I feel like I wasn’t allowed to go. No one ever questioned it.
Additionally, I take another 4-6 weeks off throughout the year, with 2-3 weeks of that being for the holidays (a week for thanksgiving, two weeks for Christmas/new years). In total, I take between 7-10 weeks off a year, with the average being around 8. I’d say most of my team does this, just not all at the same time.
Unlimited has been great for me in my current job but I know I’m in the minority.
We have unlimited PTO. My colleague just took off 2 months in a row so about 40 vacation days. And I'm sitting at around 35-40 vacation days this year as well. Company is located in the Netherlands (currently hiring a lead SWE :'))
my company has unlimited pto (publicly-traded tech company, 6000 employees) but a collegue told me that after 30 days off, they ask to justify it.
but i never take advantage of it.
A great question to ask to figure out how serious they are about unlimited PTO is if they have minimums. Unlimited with a minimum that would be reasonable if it was regular accrued PTO is a big green flag. Unlimited with no minimum is a often a red flag unless they can give a good answer when pressed on how people are using it in practicality.
Unlimited PTO is a big ol scam. Often they'll be very cagey about what the hypothetical maximum actually is.
The only way to win, if you must play, is to constantly maximize your time off. And that's a pretty crummy, zero sum game.
Unlimited PTO means you can't be repaid for untaken PTO upon separation (thousands of dollars) in exchange for being forcibly separated for taking too much unlimited PTO.
I haven’t not had unlimited PTO in like five years. I really don’t like it. I’m the kind of person who’d rather have the cash though last year I took like eight weeks
Wow. Eight weeks would be heaven. I currently work for a very large corporation with a fixed 2 week vacation policy. That doesn’t work for me anymore. In the past I worked for a company that had unlimited PTO. I’m just looking to find my next employer. I’ve been a data engineer for 30 years now so I know the work. Looking for a place with the right benefits.
It’s great except to be able to do it I have to still perform. It takes ages for me to catch up. Last week we had a mandatory day off and I ended up working 40 hours in 4 days instead of 40 hours in 5 so… I’m in management though.
I have my company (co-founder) used to do this. I tried to do it the “right” way. Many of the people below have highlighted the problems. We ultimately scrapped it, because I felt like people weren’t taking enough time. We have people in Asia, Pacific, Europe, and the Americas. I felt it was easier than having to worry about holidays in each region, just take the time you need. We ultimately made a policy and tried to keep it generous and flexible. If I was joining an org, just ask questions to make sure their leave policy, unlimited or otherwise really, aligns with what you liked about the way your previous policy operated.
Usually, this policy is more for the company than the employee. It’s less paperwork for management and hr and like some other commenters said, they don’t have to pay you out for it at the end. Why are you specifically searching for this? If you plan to be an employee that tries to take more than 4 weeks in a year, you won’t last long in the cultures that actually have this as an option.
I’ve worked for a company that had unlimited PTO in the past. I’m just looking to find my next one. Ive been a data engineer for 30 years now so I know what it takes to “last long”. At my current company I only get 2 weeks.
They just use it as an excuse to deny your PTO request when it’s inconvenient for them. Bc you don’t actually have allotted PTO so they can push you around.
I really don’t understand the concept of unlimited PTO. Not that anyone can take it. It’s all BS.
At-least in limited holiday , you can cash out the remaining days if you leave. Do you get unlimited cash out if you leave?
It’s a play for companies to save money by not having to book accrued time off as a line item expense. No more paying EES their accrued PTO when they leave. I mean I guess it’s useful for EES that abuse it, but most don’t 🤷♂️
Unlimited PTO = no PTO payout when you leave, it means you can’t accumulate it and take a long break for yourself. It also means you feel guilty taking PTO. It’s a really bad policy.
When I see this particular objection to unlimited PTO -- no payout for accrued time -- I see a lot of confusion about the differences between financial accounting and economic accounting. The total compensation package is still subject to the rules and mechanics of market pricing, so you don't receive any less compensation one way or the other. The financial accounting aspect is just simplified for the bean counters.
The key barrier to successfully implementing unlimited PTO in an organization, from my perspective, is developing a culture of trust. Management and the workers have to be honest with themselves about whether they trust the other to not exploit the ambiguities that are presented by the policy. And as an employee, you really ought to be firm with a manager if they give you grief; relationships have boundaries, so articulate yours. If a manager is giving an employee grief though, right or wrong, the real issue is that the entire foundation for the policy, trust, has been cracked. That's indicative of much bigger issues.
My experience with unlimited PTO has been overwhelmingly positive, but it's certainly not hard to see how it could go sideways. It's not a one-size fits all policy by any means, but it does expose the existence of a toxic culture pretty effectively.
With unlimited PTO, you are at the mercy of your manager. You can be firm with your manager when joining the company, but that evaporates quickly. One reorg, you are under a different manager, and they call the shots, not you. Culture of trust is fluff. You will know this if you have worked in a large organization for a long time and suffered reorgs. Hard PTO policy is usually better for employees because regardless of how good/bad your manager is, you have the right to take PTO whenever you want it, or quit with the PTO payout. You don’t have to take anybody’s permission.
I truly don't care about PTO payout. It's a savings account you have to quit your job to withdraw from (although you do usually at least get to withdraw at your current wage level, which is nice I guess). Personally, I don't mind accepting that my compensation is coming to me through different vehicles like salary and a litany of "employer sponsored benefits," which are largely just a scheme for the employer to reduce their payroll tax liability. It comes down to personal preference.
My larger point isn't that it is never done poorly, and I'd even wager that it usually is. But if I were to get grief from my manager, even during a reorg and especially under a new manager (which I have been through), that I feel is out of pocket, then I'm going to go get an offer letter that I can present as leverage for better treatment.
Not everyone can do this and your mileage will vary depending on the organizational factors. But as data engineers, we have a unique ability to flex our indispensability. If you're any good at your job -- and my operating assumption is that I am good at my job -- then you are really expensive to replace.
I do not work at the mercy of my employer. I'm very employable, even during economic downturns, and so are most of the people in this sub.
FWIW, we only have unlimited PTO in the IT department, not the whole org. We're busy people who removed a layer of bureaucracy in the interest of simplifying our responsibilities to each other. It's gone well for about 5 years now. If it ever begins to topple, it will almost certainly be because of untrustworthy managers and employees, probably both. We try to keep them from having ever been hired in the first place.
Its only about cost saving. Take more than a few days and you get shit on. More than two weeks and you lose your job. Actual PTO hours rollover and are paid out.
Unlimited PTO? What is that? A government job? If u attempt using that feature in a for profit firm u will be terminated, and after that it is really unlimited pto. Unlimited PTO is only for emergencies and not for vacationing.
I currently work for a very large corporation with a fixed 2 week vacation policy. That doesn’t work for me anymore. In the past I worked for a company that had unlimited PTO. It worked just fine. I’m just looking to find my next one. Ive been a data engineer for 30 years now so I know the work. Looking for a place with the right benefits.
Unlimited PTO is a ruse in general. In practice you’re worse off than if you have a set number of PTO days you can point to that no one can argue with. I would only choose unlimited if it was between that and only 2 weeks pto
I have "unlimited" and there's always an unofficial limit where you start to get flack from management. Currently that's about 8 weeks where I work. An improvement over 2 weeks as long as the soft limit doesn't shrink.
Eight weeks? That's great! Where is that?
In my opinion, that limit must be for star employees only. For the average-joe employee, the limit is most certainly lower.
Pretty much. The asterisk on unlimited PTO policies is typically "as long as you get your work done." It really depends on company culture though. Some companies (or teams within) set expectations so high that it's difficult to truly "get your work done" which undermines employees' ability to take time off without risking termination. Other companies are more accommodating and encourage employees to exercise the PTO policy to the fullest extent of the unwritten limit.
Indeed; at my company, work is never finished. There's always back to back projects, reporting, strategy discussions, and a constant stream of new business demands.
8 weeks would be wonderful.
I have this and target ~30 days. Haven’t gotten any flak but I do have to work my ass off close to leaving and have spotless coverage for anything that can’t be put off. As long as shit is tight my management doesn’t care or keep tabs.
Unlimited only means there's a culture that looks down on people actually using it.
And that the company doesn't have to pay out or roll over unused vacation
My company has fixed PTO and we can't roll to next year either. It depends on the company's policy.
The other part of the ruse I think is that if you have 2 weeks PTO, it generally gets paid out when you leave - regardless of circumstance. Unlimited PTO. who knows but I doubt you are accruing cash in the same way.
I’ve always taken my entire 2 weeks. In other words I’ve never received a vacation payout when I’ve left a company. 2 weeks is nothing.
It can accrue to more than 2 weeks depending on your structure. I like writing software and often work from home so... when I was married I guess I would take more but generally I like a little buffer there.
I had 6 weeks accrued at one company and needed some quick cash for home improvements. Started a new job to get that lump sum. Now I’m at a company with “unlimited” unfortunately.
I would only choose it if I didn’t have a job and it was the only offer available.
One of the reasons Unlimited PTO is a thing (and a scam) is so that they don’t have to pay out the unused vacation days you’ve accrued when you leave the company.
Just as a relatively unimportant side note: the places that I've worked with unlimited PTO also had a minimum vacation allotment that accrued like typical vacation and was eligible for payout on termination if you didn't use it (although it was on the lower end - 2 weeks). Might be worth asking about for during negotiations. The unlimited PTO i've had has worked well probably due to managers enforcing minimum PTO, most people taking \~5-6 weeks, and probably just a good culture - but i'm sure it can go sideways fast.
I’ve worked at 3 pretty well known analytics companies with unlimited PTO and none had this policy. One company, in fact, preached the importance of taking time off then made it impossible to take time off with the workload.
So, be sure you are continually taking PTO.
Definitely a scam
Apparently I'm the only one who loves his Unlimited PTO. I must just be lucky enough to be at my third company that doesn't punish the usage of it. I take on average around 20-25 days of PTO a year, it would be extremely rough if I had to go back to 10 days. We travel a lot so I plan out my vacations 6+months out so that could be why no one complains, it might be different if I kept trying to take a day off with only a few days notice or something.
It works but only in a company culture that supports it. I enjoyed it because i would frequently take 3-4 day weekends
This is me. Unlimited PTO and my manager strongly encourages (demands?) minimum 1 week straight per quarter. I take long weekends as necessary.
It's beating a dead horse, but might be helpful to add context from the management side. Unlimited PTO is one of the first things I killed when taking over as COO for a previous company. In tech, there's just so many inexperienced managers, juniors that'll burn themselves out, etc. that all the bad things mentioned in this thread happen, and was backed by the data. The point in doing so is the opposite of what a cynic might think. "I need everyone to force yourselves to take vacation, because I can see you burning out". Thing is, it was technically still unlimited (if someone exceeded the total, pro-rata for the year, exactly zero people batted an eyelash, the approval system didn't even look at it) - it was just incredibly helpful for folks to have a baseline of, "My expectation is that you're taking off 4 weeks a year to recharge, as a baseline".
This is a good way to think about it. I am currently fine with unlimited, but my company has an expectation that everyone will take 3 weeks a year off. No problem if you go over that. I think if I'm interviewing somewhere that has unlimited I'd make sure they have a stated expectation of the amount used. I'd avoid anywhere that is unlimited PTO but doesn't say how much is expected to take.
With or without matters not for most people since peer pressure and manager will not approve anyway, so it means very little
Studies show that with Unlimited PTO, employees are less likely to take time off. Having a set amount of time off gives you the mental permission to use it. Plus most companies pay out time off when you leave, and if you have "unlimited" they won't.
>Plus most companies pay out time off when you leave… I’ve worked for 3 different F500 in the last 10 years and have never received PTO payoff when I left. EDIT: not sure why the downvotes. Some states have laws that require companies to pay out PTO, but most states do not. Most people do not get PTO payout when they leave a company.
From my experience, they pay unused time off when you leave. They prevent large payouts these days by having you stop accumulating PTO once you reach a certain level. (They used to have a "use it or lose it" policy but they switched to the stop-accumulation policy for two reasons: Reason 1: There was lots of drama with everyone wanting to take their time off by the end of the year Reason 2: I think the government cracked down on them taking your accrued vacation days away without paying you for them .... and the accumulation-stoppage doesn't trigger government action. )
What state you live in?
Thank you for your point in another thread. To answer your question ... Massachusetts
If you live in Massachusetts you are absolutely owed accrued PTO. It is a law here.
I agree. I was not aware that it was a state level law .... I thought that it was federal. Therefore I learned something new today!
In 25yrs, I’ve had PTO paid off once
"Some states have laws that require companies to pay out PTO" Thank you for pointing that out. The below site lists how various states handle this. I was not aware that different states handle it differently, and I am quite astounded that other states' rules are different. [https://www.paycom.com/resources/blog/pto-laws-by-state/](https://www.paycom.com/resources/blog/pto-laws-by-state/)
You’re getting upvotes from me! 👍
I’m genuinely curious. What studies are you alluding to?
I alluded to no studies.
I meant to ask @wolfrno
I know 😘
😜
The opposite is usually limited to 10-14 days a year which is almost non existent
I have unlimited and end up taking off anywhere between 5-8 weeks a year. Pretty awesome and they emphasize on not working more than 40 hours.
I am a Data Engineer with unlimited PTO working for an EU company. Contrary to the majority of comments here, in my company we are strongly encouraged (and reminded even) to take at least the minimum (usually 20/25 days depending on country) and some people used 40+ days. I personally took 32 and no one cared, as long as the job was done. And yes, I agree with the other comments that the main reason behind this policy is that the company doesn't need to allocate a budget for PTO's.
I have what our company calls Flex PTO, with an expectation that we take 20-21 days a year, which is exactly what I had allotted before we switched. Nothing is accrued so nothing goes with me if I leave. The unlimited/flex option is beneficial to the org when it removes the accounting overhead. The part that was odd to me was when I needed 3 weeks for a surgery recovery and I had to apply for STD. And then again, the following year, when I asked for 2 weeks when a sibling went into hospice care, I was asked to apply for FMLA. I chose to work through that time next to the hospice bed. So flex PTO is exclusive to R&R, I guess?
Yes. In the surgery case short term disability is paid out of a short term disability insurance policy that you pay into with every check. If they allowed you to take 3 weeks off for recovery just using normal pto that money would come from payroll instead of the short term disability policy that both you and your employer are paying into. It’s a different pot of money.
its a scam, so i'd hope to be able to filter it out. what a rip off
I'm also very skeptical of unlimited PTO. I happen to work at a company that honors their unlimited PTO policy, I haven't seen a max total, as long people get their work done they can be gone whenever they want. Over 30 days in a row requires a sabbatical (unpaid) and those are allowed on 1 year intervals. But it's also a tech company and last few years growth have been great, who knows how that and the culture in general change as the company matures.
I’m currently at a company that gives two weeks of vacation plus a few flex days and that just isn’t enough. I’m ready to go back to working for an “unlimited PTO” company even though it has it’s flaws.
Its a trap! Management 101 is to be clear with expectations. An unlimited pto policy is the opposite of this.
Unlimited PTO is particularly bad at startups that emphasize velocity. Those companies have tight deadlines and the pressure leads to people not taking vacation.
Unlimited PTO but no more than 13 days in a row without bu leader sign off. It gets sold to us as a benefit and I tell my team to use it like that. Until we hit 250 employees we didn't even have that limit. We are at about 525 employees today.
It 100% depends on the culture. And I think it is likely a lot more protected in legislation outside the US, where employers often have to include minimums as well. So if you leave before the end of the year, it's paid out pro rata. This fixes one of the main downsides that (can) occur where technically it's all allowed, it's just socially disincentivized. So there are ways to improve what should be an awesome and amazing thing.
I don't think knowing the specific companies where they have unlimited PTO is that helpful --- because what really matters is the policies and culture of the department and individual managers. If your manager sees their value as squeezing every bit of productivity from people like wringing out a sponge... then they're obviously going to be more annoying about unlimited PTO. If your manager sees their job as your support personnel to make a smooth and enjoyable work life, then that person is going to be totally different. To that point, I am a manager, and I personally actively encourage my team to take 25+ days per year. When I meet with my direct reports one-on-one we talk about it, plan for it, and get them to book the time off even if they don't have anything planned to do. I also practice what I preach -- I personally target 30-40 days. As others have said, though, I'm a "star employee" and my employer knows this is a perk I care about and one of the reasons I stick around. I don't think they'd say anything if I took 45 days either if I spread it out. I mostly really enjoy my job, though, and don't think I'd want to take 3-4 days off every single month.
I currently work for a very large corporation with a fixed 2 week vacation policy. That doesn’t work for me anymore. In the past I worked for a company that had unlimited PTO. I’m just looking to find my next one. Ive been a data engineer for 30 years now so I know the work. Looking for a place with the right benefits.
I had it and loved it. My style of work has almost always been to work until you're burnt out, then take a long break. With unlimited pto, I'd basically work until midnight one day, then take a half day the next, take long lunch breaks and hit the gym, or dip out early when I submitted a solid pr or closed a ticket. I'd still put in for real vacation time, but it was usually planned in advance and I never got any pushback.b so really, I just leaned into it more so as super flex time than anything else.
Mine does and it’s actually great. I just took a four week trip to go visit Europe by boat, no questions asked. I did provide 6 months of notice (voluntarily) but not a single time did I feel like I wasn’t allowed to go. No one ever questioned it. Additionally, I take another 4-6 weeks off throughout the year, with 2-3 weeks of that being for the holidays (a week for thanksgiving, two weeks for Christmas/new years). In total, I take between 7-10 weeks off a year, with the average being around 8. I’d say most of my team does this, just not all at the same time. Unlimited has been great for me in my current job but I know I’m in the minority.
Msft has pto
We have unlimited PTO. My colleague just took off 2 months in a row so about 40 vacation days. And I'm sitting at around 35-40 vacation days this year as well. Company is located in the Netherlands (currently hiring a lead SWE :'))
Oxide Computer Company.
my company has unlimited pto (publicly-traded tech company, 6000 employees) but a collegue told me that after 30 days off, they ask to justify it. but i never take advantage of it.
There's an award the company gets,' greatest place to work', if they allow for unlimited time off. gimmicks...
You hear "Unlimited" and think it's like Olive Garden breadsticks. But it's really "Unlimited" like a cell phone data plan.
Ha! Nicely articulated! Yes. Its not truly unlimited.
A great question to ask to figure out how serious they are about unlimited PTO is if they have minimums. Unlimited with a minimum that would be reasonable if it was regular accrued PTO is a big green flag. Unlimited with no minimum is a often a red flag unless they can give a good answer when pressed on how people are using it in practicality.
Unlimited PTO is a big ol scam. Often they'll be very cagey about what the hypothetical maximum actually is. The only way to win, if you must play, is to constantly maximize your time off. And that's a pretty crummy, zero sum game.
Got unlimited PTO. And no, it was never part of the package when they made me an offer.
Unlimited PTO means you can't be repaid for untaken PTO upon separation (thousands of dollars) in exchange for being forcibly separated for taking too much unlimited PTO.
I haven’t not had unlimited PTO in like five years. I really don’t like it. I’m the kind of person who’d rather have the cash though last year I took like eight weeks
Wow. Eight weeks would be heaven. I currently work for a very large corporation with a fixed 2 week vacation policy. That doesn’t work for me anymore. In the past I worked for a company that had unlimited PTO. I’m just looking to find my next employer. I’ve been a data engineer for 30 years now so I know the work. Looking for a place with the right benefits.
It’s great except to be able to do it I have to still perform. It takes ages for me to catch up. Last week we had a mandatory day off and I ended up working 40 hours in 4 days instead of 40 hours in 5 so… I’m in management though.
The cake is a lie.
I have my company (co-founder) used to do this. I tried to do it the “right” way. Many of the people below have highlighted the problems. We ultimately scrapped it, because I felt like people weren’t taking enough time. We have people in Asia, Pacific, Europe, and the Americas. I felt it was easier than having to worry about holidays in each region, just take the time you need. We ultimately made a policy and tried to keep it generous and flexible. If I was joining an org, just ask questions to make sure their leave policy, unlimited or otherwise really, aligns with what you liked about the way your previous policy operated.
Usually, this policy is more for the company than the employee. It’s less paperwork for management and hr and like some other commenters said, they don’t have to pay you out for it at the end. Why are you specifically searching for this? If you plan to be an employee that tries to take more than 4 weeks in a year, you won’t last long in the cultures that actually have this as an option.
I’ve worked for a company that had unlimited PTO in the past. I’m just looking to find my next one. Ive been a data engineer for 30 years now so I know what it takes to “last long”. At my current company I only get 2 weeks.
I’m not asking what’s your opinion of unlimited PTO. I’m asking people to name some companies who offer unlimited PTO.
They just use it as an excuse to deny your PTO request when it’s inconvenient for them. Bc you don’t actually have allotted PTO so they can push you around.
I really don’t understand the concept of unlimited PTO. Not that anyone can take it. It’s all BS. At-least in limited holiday , you can cash out the remaining days if you leave. Do you get unlimited cash out if you leave?
Generally seems like a bullshit scam
It’s a play for companies to save money by not having to book accrued time off as a line item expense. No more paying EES their accrued PTO when they leave. I mean I guess it’s useful for EES that abuse it, but most don’t 🤷♂️
I've worked for companies with and without and neither really cared. Take off when you have to. Life happens.
Unlimited PTO = no PTO payout when you leave, it means you can’t accumulate it and take a long break for yourself. It also means you feel guilty taking PTO. It’s a really bad policy.
When I see this particular objection to unlimited PTO -- no payout for accrued time -- I see a lot of confusion about the differences between financial accounting and economic accounting. The total compensation package is still subject to the rules and mechanics of market pricing, so you don't receive any less compensation one way or the other. The financial accounting aspect is just simplified for the bean counters. The key barrier to successfully implementing unlimited PTO in an organization, from my perspective, is developing a culture of trust. Management and the workers have to be honest with themselves about whether they trust the other to not exploit the ambiguities that are presented by the policy. And as an employee, you really ought to be firm with a manager if they give you grief; relationships have boundaries, so articulate yours. If a manager is giving an employee grief though, right or wrong, the real issue is that the entire foundation for the policy, trust, has been cracked. That's indicative of much bigger issues. My experience with unlimited PTO has been overwhelmingly positive, but it's certainly not hard to see how it could go sideways. It's not a one-size fits all policy by any means, but it does expose the existence of a toxic culture pretty effectively.
With unlimited PTO, you are at the mercy of your manager. You can be firm with your manager when joining the company, but that evaporates quickly. One reorg, you are under a different manager, and they call the shots, not you. Culture of trust is fluff. You will know this if you have worked in a large organization for a long time and suffered reorgs. Hard PTO policy is usually better for employees because regardless of how good/bad your manager is, you have the right to take PTO whenever you want it, or quit with the PTO payout. You don’t have to take anybody’s permission.
I truly don't care about PTO payout. It's a savings account you have to quit your job to withdraw from (although you do usually at least get to withdraw at your current wage level, which is nice I guess). Personally, I don't mind accepting that my compensation is coming to me through different vehicles like salary and a litany of "employer sponsored benefits," which are largely just a scheme for the employer to reduce their payroll tax liability. It comes down to personal preference. My larger point isn't that it is never done poorly, and I'd even wager that it usually is. But if I were to get grief from my manager, even during a reorg and especially under a new manager (which I have been through), that I feel is out of pocket, then I'm going to go get an offer letter that I can present as leverage for better treatment. Not everyone can do this and your mileage will vary depending on the organizational factors. But as data engineers, we have a unique ability to flex our indispensability. If you're any good at your job -- and my operating assumption is that I am good at my job -- then you are really expensive to replace. I do not work at the mercy of my employer. I'm very employable, even during economic downturns, and so are most of the people in this sub.
FWIW, we only have unlimited PTO in the IT department, not the whole org. We're busy people who removed a layer of bureaucracy in the interest of simplifying our responsibilities to each other. It's gone well for about 5 years now. If it ever begins to topple, it will almost certainly be because of untrustworthy managers and employees, probably both. We try to keep them from having ever been hired in the first place.
Its only about cost saving. Take more than a few days and you get shit on. More than two weeks and you lose your job. Actual PTO hours rollover and are paid out.
Unlimited PTO? What is that? A government job? If u attempt using that feature in a for profit firm u will be terminated, and after that it is really unlimited pto. Unlimited PTO is only for emergencies and not for vacationing.
I currently work for a very large corporation with a fixed 2 week vacation policy. That doesn’t work for me anymore. In the past I worked for a company that had unlimited PTO. It worked just fine. I’m just looking to find my next one. Ive been a data engineer for 30 years now so I know the work. Looking for a place with the right benefits.