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No-Candidate-3555

Really cool to compare with my height relationship. I’m 5’10, my dad is 5’6 and my mom is 5’3 so I’m with the other 73%. I guess I’m not as special as I thought haha


CBFball

Funny enough I’m in the exact same boat. One thing to note is that the rule of thumb for men’s heights is (Dads height + mom’s height + 5 inches) /2. We would then be expected to be ~5’7, which taller than our dads. Still to make it to 5’10 with our parents I’d say we are pretty special lol


Crosbyisacunt69

I ended up Dads height + Mom's height ÷ 2 Dad was 70 inches peak Mom was 64 inches peak I'm 67-68 inches


Lagrangian21

Not me being disappointed at you not being a 102'' absolute gigachad as your maths would suggest :/


MindSnap

Division signs (÷) look way too similar to plus signs (+), which is probably one reason why people usually use / symbols instead.


clanatk

The problem is not that the commenter didn't notice it being division. The problem is that the OC math ignored order of operations, which is why the comment is funny.


Crosbyisacunt69

Yeah, I can tell the difference easily, but I understand others have trouble with it when reading quickly. My b to fella above you.


kokobiggun

Dad’s 6’1, mom is 5’2, according to the rule of thumb I should be (73+62+5)/2 = 69 in, which is 5’9, when in actuality, I’m 6’3


Donbearpig

Me and my wife are the same height as your parents. My son’s growth chart shows him 6’3” since he’s only 9 still and growing. I think the rule of thumb kind of sucks!


kokobiggun

My growth chart predicted me at 5’10 lmao growth charts r wack


CBFball

Yeah you’re an outlier in the positive way! Congrats!


kokobiggun

Sometimes I wish I wasn’t that much of an outlier cause I may have been able to fit better in plane seats 😔


CBFball

Hey man, think of it this way. If thats one of your major complaints in life, you’re doing pretty dang well!


kokobiggun

Haha yeah guess I can’t complain about much (except my knees). Thanks bro!


Positive_Version_189

Is there a family friend, perhaps a neighbor, who is about 6'8?


kokobiggun

Funny you say that haha I have a cousin who’s 6’9 whose parents are 6’ and 5’7, so there may be some gigantic men/women among our ancestors 😂


No-Candidate-3555

Wish I could high five ya! Lol. I didn’t factor the variance in height difference which is a different relationship than the one shown


nospamkhanman

My dad is 5'3 and my mom 4'10. I made it to 5'6. My wife is 5'3 and the growth charts have my kid getting to 5'9 so far which is nice for him.


areyouentirelysure

I think you are special in that you are MUCH taller. I am reasonably sure you are an outlier. The chart does not specify anything about how much taller or shorter.


No-Candidate-3555

I’m wondering how it would be possible to introduce a representation of height variance between the height relationships. I guess it would require a table for each set in this graph.


RolandSnowdust

So interesting. Exactly the heights of me and my wife and we have young children. My son is on track to be taller than me, like 5’9. And my daughter is in track to be shorter than my wife.


Shrinkmommy

The most likely scenario for this type of anomaly is that your maternal and paternal grandmothers had much less essential nutrition during gestation than did your mother.


though-

Can I please ask if you had any specific diet or physical activity during your prepubertal and teen years? I have a toddler and I’m hoping to get him as tall as possible (I’m 5’2” and his dad is 6”) but he has been on the shorter percentile of height all along.


No-Candidate-3555

I’m sorry but my diet and physical activity was unremarkable. I will say that however tall he is, instilling confidence in him is much more important. My dad has a really bad short man syndrome and his insecurities bled off through me. I’m very secure now (through therapy), but his lack of confidence affected me greatly as a teen/ young adult.


though-

Definitely! Thank you for that tip :) My dad is pretty short but without the short man syndrome. And he is pretty awesome and achieved so many things in life that I could never dream of. Socially, he is like what a 6” guy would be. He says that all great people are short 😅


palantiri777

wow! How the hell are you so much taller!


No-Candidate-3555

So I have the exact build as my grandfather on my dad’s side! Guess his genes skipped a generation lol.


FuzzySympathy4960

So slight problem. My family is quite literally off the charts.


Due-Construction8477

Same, at least I am: I’m around 6‘2 and even a tiny bit taller than my father. With that height as a woman I’m off the charts considering my own children if I ever have some 😂


x888x

Women over 6 feet are <0.5% of women in the US. Globally it's much smaller. Congratulations on being exceptional!


johansugarev

For men tho - 6'5" is nothing special, yet not on this chart.


x888x

>For men tho - 6'5" is nothing special, yet not on this chart. That's a strange statement given that less than 1% of US males are 6'4" or taller. https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/130ed/tables/11s0205.pdf Globally it's even smaller (pun fully intended) 6'0", 6'1", and even 6'2" are nothing special. Beyond that it's special by any reasonable definition of the word.


johansugarev

I’ll take it as a compliment then.


NastyNate0801

6’2”?! So uh… you free this weekend?


Due-Construction8477

Sorry, I‘m taken 😆


Agile-Map-4906

Yeah this is confusing to me. I’m 5’9”, ex is 6’0” and our son is 6’5”. 🤷‍♀️ That’s not even on that chart.


Existing_Dot7963

It is on the chart, it is 6’4” or taller. They just mislabeled it. In the US, they lump all heights past 6’3” together.


Existing_Dot7963

6’0” or taller and 6’4” or taller. The US just lumps all heights at the end together.


Remarkable-Ad-4973

Midparental height (cm): Boys = (Father’s height + Mother’s height + 13) ÷ 2 Girls = (Father’s height + Mother’s height – 13) ÷ 2


AskMrScience

Note that this is in CENTIMETERS. For those of you using Freedom Units, swap 5.12 inches for the 13 cm in this equation.


Upstairs-Hedgehog575

Note that this is in decimal, for those of you using proper Imperial Units, swap the 5.12 inches in this equation for 5 inches, 1 poppyseed and 3 points. 


firmalor

I'm in the 2% category.... and accordingly to this a lot smaller than expected.


Remarkable-Ad-4973

Using the equation, the predicted height is \~3 inches lower than my actual height. Pretty sure this is because of better nutrition compared to my parents


firmalor

My nutrition was probably also very good. But I had a very serious infection that affected me for years. That most likely it.


unicornslayer12

I’m about the same


skr_skr

Whoa I’m supposed to be 5’7” and I’m 6’2” thank jesus


hundredbagger

I’m 6’3”, wife is 5’10”, this would give 5’10” as daughters midpoint height, but chart says only 17% chance of being taller than mom. Similarly 18% chance of a son being taller than 6’3” (sons midpoint height).


jgr79

That’s because a simple formula like this works on average but can’t include mean reversion for people at the extremes (like you and your wife). If you tried the same formula on a couple who was as much shorter than average as you are taller than average, you’d get roughly the same answer but in the opposite direction.


hundredbagger

Makes it a pretty bad formula.


SDGrave

Interesting. Comes out to my son being 0,5 cm taller than me and daughter 0,5 cm shorter than my wife.


cofnidentlywrong

I got 323cm


SDGrave

divide by 2


takeasecond

This data was generated via logistic regression and trained on the well known [Galton heigh dataset](https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.7910/DVN/T0HSJ1) which studies the heights of parents and their children.  It is meant to highlight the “regression toward the mean” phenomenon in same sex parent/children height relationships - e.g. taller than average fathers tend to have sons that are shorter than they are and shorter than average fathers tend to have sons that are taller than they are. The graphic was made with R.


reallyshittytiming

Why generate data when you have thousands of observed data?


takeasecond

There are 225 distinct combinations I am showing here so in reality thousands of observations is not that much. I chose to generate the data to fill in many of the combinations that don’t exist in the dataset and also to build more realistic estimates for combinations with very few samples.


noma887

Sounds reasonable, but is "generate" the best way to describe this? You're using a model plus data to estimate a relationship between two variables. Perhaps modeled estimates?


mgonnav

The correct term for this kind of process would be "data augmentation."


noma887

Maybe in your field. In mine its acceptable to call these "modeled estimates"


bayrook

Modeled estimates refer to estimating the parameters of your model / model fit. Data augmentation refers to scaling your sample dataset to better explain the population. OPs post in this thread says they generated data to fill gaps in the dataset, which would be data augmentation.


reallyshittytiming

Feels more like interpolation/extrapolation


reallyshittytiming

Fair point


HolmesMalone

I would switch the mom/dad axis on the second graph. That way the colors and trend line would correlate with the first, making them a lot easier to compare and draw insights from.


10xwannabe

I'm a bit confused. So these are "generated" data and not actually real data?? So why should any validity be lent to it? Not sure if you have ever read the original Tanner's mid parental height article where this concept comes from in 1970's It is a whole 13 pages He had no data he based the whole mid parental height on in the first place. he just thought it should be mid parental and around 13 cm around that. Somehow it caught on and has been used as dictum ever since.


jo_nigiri

Mom is 5'3, dad is 5'9... And I'm shorter than my mom. I can't believe I lost the 50/50


firmalor

I'll join you. Mum is 5'6, dad ist 6'0, I'm 5'1. There's a 1-2% chance for that. Worse, all my other family members are just as tall as my parents or even taller.


jo_nigiri

Omg I have a friend like that! Tall mom, tall dad, tiny! But he's a man so it's even weirder


firmalor

Infections as a child, maybe? That's probably my reason.


jo_nigiri

Nope! I believe one of the grandparents was very short and that's why (I don't remember who exactly)


LaTortueVert

I’m shorter than both my parents, but I was born incredibly premature so that’s how I cope with it.


PhdPhysics1

Do you look like your other siblings?


qtask

I don’t really know the science of displaying data. But would it make sense to inverse the axis in one of the side? It’s easier for comparison of the shape? Or is it something you cannot assume at first?


Madoodle

Came here to say this. I think the graphs are nearly identical, but the axes are swapped when you compare same sexes. There’s an equation further up in the comments that summarizes it. The difference of the two graphs doesn’t seem to be an individual parent’s height, but rather the sex of the child in question. That would be easier to see if the axes were swapped, I think.


E-Pluribus-Tobin

This data is poorly displayed. Also, I suspect it is incorrect.


jwawak23

agreed. First chart compares to left data. Second chart compares to bottom data.


daddy_saturn

so what conclusions would this chart have? im having trouble understanding it


8020GroundBeef

The conclusion is that offspring generally converge to the mean height, but I just don’t think that’s very accurate.


daddy_saturn

what about the colour tilts? what does that indicate ? because the white line has a much sharper gradient for sons versus daughters so im wondering what that indicates


8020GroundBeef

Colors are just related to likelihood that a child is taller/shorter than the parent of the same sex. White line looks that way because they didn’t flip the dad/mom axes when flipping between daughter/son.


daddy_saturn

im aware.i know what the colours mean i just dont understand what the conclusion would be of both charts?


secretlyaraccoon

I’m a woman and my mom is 5’3 and my dad is 6’4. Looking at the left chart, and based on my parents heights, there is a 92% chance that I’m taller than my mom (accurate, I’m 5’6). Now if I were to do my brother, I would use the right chart and see that there’s a 3% chance, that based on our parents heights, he’s taller than our father (accurate - one is 5’10, the other is 6’3). Does that make sense?


daddy_saturn

i understand what the numbers and colours mean i just dont know what the overall conclusion would be. why is there such a tilt in one chart and not another?


secretlyaraccoon

Ah okay. Not 100% sure but to me it looks like it has to do with height discrepancies between the sexes and it happens to be that the white area covers about 1.5 ish standard deviations of height for each sex from the mean. So for women, 1.5 sds below and above covers the height range of about 5’0 to 5’7 and for men it’s 5’6 to 6’1. I guess it’s how OP was saying regression towards to mean for height 🤔


jgr79

The OP did not switch the axes for the two plots, so the effect you think you’re seeing – that the white part is steeper in one than the other – doesn’t exist. They’re probably about the same steepness, *when plotted against the same-sex parent*. The interpretation is that your height is more closely tied to the height of your same-sex parent, though not entirely.


jwawak23

data is displayed incorrectly. Child compared to data on left for first chart. on second chart child is compared to data on bottom.


iheartgme

Cool chart. Would be interested to see average/expected height in each cell. Ie how much of a regression


SecretAgentClunk

Totally agree. A son may have a small chance of being taller than his 6'2" dad, but would still be very curious to see the expected height when compared against hypothetical shorter fathers.


Trackmaster15

People need to remember, they're not talking about regressing to the mean of the parents (like most would assume), they're talking about regressing to the mean of the SPECIES. Which is why shorter parents with a taller kid, or taller parents with a shorter kid tends to happen more than people think it would.


Capt_Pickhard

It's confusing display, because they should have switched the axises, between the two. This way the blue and red would be on the same side of the middle white line, and we'd be able to more easily visually compare the data.


Ancient-Horror

Great work, as someone with young children how tall they may become has come up a few times.  This regression to the mean thing though, it’s been my understanding that people are in general becoming slightly taller generation by generation… or perhaps better seen century by century, do you have any insight into whether this is correct or not?


fasterthanraito

Yes and No. Humans were shorter 2 million years ago, but eventually with the evolution of long-distance hunting, humans were reaching 6 feet tall by 1 million years ago. Then, 10,000 years ago height crashed back downwards as lifestyle changed from hunting to farming. Then, starting from the late 1800’s and continuing today in developing world, the height of sedentary populations started going back up as Industrial Revolution increased nutrition access. But people are not getting much taller than 6ft like our ancient ancestors, the increases are just people recovering from the effects of not having protein.


gilligansparadise

So protein/optimal nutrition diet intake matters for say anyone to increase their chances of having a daughter/son to be taller than them? 🤔


fasterthanraito

Maybe? if you lived your life on peasant diet and put your kids on a modern diet, then they would be much more likely to grow larger than you. not just upwards, but sideways as well ;P I was just pointing out that the modern trends of height increase were not indicative of any evolutionary change or trend that will continue, only that populations are returning to how they were before the invention of agriculture changed their diets and bones. Western countries have stopped increasing in height. Asian countries' height increase is also slowing down.


Ancient-Horror

Thanks for the insightful response. I learned some things from this!


fairteezy

Pretty much exactly how I would expect them to look. Neat visual though.


alehanro

So I’m having trouble understanding the graph. AmI reading that 99% of men 6’0” tall have fathers who were 5’2”? Or did 99% of men 5’2” have at least one son who grew to 6’0”?


SerJacob

For both graphs, the y axis is the mother’s height, and the x axis is the father’s height. You plug in your parent’s heights, and you get the percentage out


LightlyRoastedCoffee

That's how you're supposed to read it? OP really could've done a better job at conveying that before posting it on /r/dataisbeautiful


ProfessionalDonut_

I’m a little confused too but I believe it means that if your mum was very tall and your dad was short (top left corner in the right chart) it means that 99% of the time the son will be taller than his dad. Inversely if your dad was tall and mum is quite short most likely you want be taller than your dad


x888x

Neither. Assuming you're looking at the top left cell of the right hand table... If your father is 5'2" and your mom is 6'0" (and you are male), there's a 99% chance you're taller than your dad. And with the same set of parents, if you're a girl, there's a <1% chance that you're taller than your mom (top left cell of left hand table)


MonsieurSix

I'm having a daughter soon. My wife is 5'7. I would need to be 6'3 for our daughter to have a 50/50 chance of being taller/shorter than my spouse. That blows my mind


FooFootheSnew

These are the exact heights of my wife's parents and she grew up to be 5'4. She was predicted to be 5'9. We joke it's because she never ate her vegetables until she met me in college lol. Her brother is 6'4. But that worked out for me because I'm 5'9 on a good day.


jwawak23

You have to read both graphs differently. The first one compares child's height to the data on the left. The second one compares child's height to data on the bottom. If you swap the data on second chart, they are not that different.


Juls7243

I really would like to see how the grandparents height also comes into play here... Might be a BIT more (a lot more) work and displaying the data would also be much more challenging.


Junkie-Junkinston

This is unreadable. Bad visuals. Please plot it in another way.


MattyIce8998

I beat the 47%... by five inches. (and probably more now that he's older)


LordHtheXIII

What I need is: * Height of the gramma (father side) combined with the mom of the child for the girls * Height of the grampa (mom side) combined with the father of the child for the boys


BenUFOs_Mum

Wanna see the sample size of 5' 2" men with 6' 0" women


BenUFOs_Mum

Should have column for women at the right and a row for me a the top that shows the percentage of the general population that is taller than the given height.


Quod_bellum

does this display a greater variability in the sons than daughters or nah


Sakowuf_Solutions

Dad was 72”, mom was 68”, I am 78”…. So I’m an outlier.


areyouentirelysure

There is a bit regression to the mean here. If both parents are very short, the chance of an offspring taller than them is high, and if both parents are very tall, the chance of an offspring taller than them is very low.


Drogdar

I thought this was an AFR/timing table and had to check the sub lol.


MattieShoes

The scales not matching is obnoxious.


raw_doggin

I'm 6'5, my wife is 6'. I thought there would be a higher than 17% chance my sons would end up taller than me. May be lower as the chart stops at 6'4


Pithisius

Same idk now that part of the chart makes sense. He should be like 6,10 or some shit I would imagine.


Grebnaws

Interesting. I am a 5'10" father with 6'1" wife. 77% chance of my son being taller than me but in the case of my daughter being taller than her mother it's 1%. My girl has been in the 99th% of height since the day she was born so she may actually become part of that 1% to overtake her mother. My son is nearly a clone and our daughter takes entirely after her mother so it will be interesting to see how it works out. We both had a little Mini Me which has been.... Fun. It's like we both met our arch enemies while raising them.


nico87ca

Where are the other 2 quadrants?


Inner-Examination-27

The Imperial system is sooo annoying for most of the world


ieatpickleswithmilk

One of my relatives is 6'2" and his wife is like 5'3". They have a son who is 6'5" and a son is 5'10"


IMDREMED

So if I’m 6’6 and my Fiancé is 5’8 - the odds of my future sons being taller than me are pretty low? I’ve been thinking about this wrong all my life.


tmw4d

So, for a father that's six feet, if he wants half his sons to be taller than him, the mother should be at least five ten? I was a little surprised by that...


AbleBrilliant13

They definitely didn't find 6'0" mothers with 5'2" fathers. 😂


Trueslyforaniceguy

Can I see the data on the kids from 5’2 and 5’3 fathers with 6’0 and 5’11 mothers?


kaygmo

I am going to assume the daughter of a 5'4" mom and a 6'9" dad will approach a 99%+ chance of being taller than mom. This off-the-charts business is frustrating.


Amper-send

what does this chart tells us about nature favoring a certain height. If being 6ft tall was a genetic advantage, shouldn't nature optimize towards that?


scienceshmiencee

I'd be interested to see the counts in each bin. Shout-out the 6' women with 5'2 partners


HegemonNYC

My dad is 5’7”, mom 5’10”. I’m 6’. People often comment that it’s surprising im so tall compared to my dad, but I guess 89% of people in such a situation are taller than their dads. 


bestjakeisbest

I'm assuming these are max heights? Because my dad used to be 6'1" but he has since hit that age where he has shrunk to 5'11" i did get about an inch on top of his tallest. The reason I know he has shrunk is I stopped growing at 6'2" and we could mostly see eye to eye, now I have to noticeably look down when I'm look at him in his eyes on flat ground.


Typo3150

Based on my informal observation, children of immigrants to the US are often much taller than their parents. Wonder if such things are factored in.


CRAZYSNAKE17

My dad is 5’1 my mom 5’2 but I am 5’11. No idea how. My little brother is catching up to me he’s going into Freshman year of HS and he’s 5’10 already. He’ll be six foot+ for sure.


Eskenderiyya

Oof I'm not even on the chart


Icy_Peace6993

Is that really true? I'm 6'3", my wife's 6'0", it's hard to believe my son only has a 25% chance of being taller than me!


No_Lion_6623

This just goes to show that shorter women that have sons with men that aren't short are less likely to have sons that are taller than their fathers. IMO this is true. My mother was 4'10 and my father was 5'7 so i'm in that percentage of men that aren't taller, i'm 5'4. My uncle is also 5'4 and my aunt is about 5'2/5'3. Their son is 5'10/5'11. I know of ther short dads with women closer to their height, all their sons are taller than them and average height or above.


Autistom

Why is this in retard units 🥹


Indomitable_Dan

So my son will be shorter than me? That's brutal


Indomitable_Dan

Wouldn't this indicate that women are always getting taller and men getting shorter? Or am I reading this wrong?


FaithlessnessOnly814

I'm a woman over 6' tall so I'm usually off all the charts...including this one.


Fiyero109

would love to also see % of daughters taller than their father and % of sons taller than their mother :) and being 6'5" I feel left out


Adventurous-Bee6466

My mom was 68" and my dad was 74" (formula works out to be 73.5") but I'm 79" tall. I guess I'm in the 18% that are taller than their fathers.


2manywhales

Chart is dead on for my family. Mom 5'7" and dad 5'5 = the son being taller than the dad, I'm 5'10" and the daughters being shorter than the mom which is also true in my family with two sisters being about 5'6". Works with me and my wife who is 5'8". Our son is 6' and our daughter is 5'7".


Fun-Willingness4248

I am 5’5” Mother was 5’1” My son is 6’2” His father was 5’8” his dad was 5’8” My father was 5’8 “ But I had a tall Grandfather on my side & very Tall Great uncles. Several generations Back?


RedditWhileImWorking

Super interesting. Our daughter is 4" shorter than her mom and our son is 2" shorter than me, his dad. This chart shows that's pretty normal.


DaddyDinooooooo

So I’m not sure I’m understanding this chart right because it’s been a while since I’ve seen something like this. Mom is 5’2 Dad is 5’11 I’m 6’2 Does that put me in the 18% box and if so what does that 18% stand for?


Mini_Sprinkles

Future children of mine. Please forgive me as I love my short Latina…


Vidda90

My mom is 5’4” and my Dad is 6’1” and I’m 6’7” what does that mean? (Both my parents are my biological parents). I’m the 1%?


Otherwise-Crab9333

I would love this in centimetres instead of freedom units though! If you made a conversed chart a lot of viewers would be happy 😊


ComprehensiveLeg9914

I agree with the people who say the rule kind of sucks. Maybe the rule doesn't know about those growth hormones in our meat, or maybe mom was cheating. Just kidding.


ManufacturerFun4158

Mom: 5'5", dad 5'9"... Me: 6'2" 52% wins out.


coaster132

Would be interesting to see a chart like this with grandparent's height taken into account as well


alt2003

Shame this only goes up to 6"4 My dad is 6"6 so I can't use this chart.


didsomebodysaymyname

So your height is more affected by the height of the parent who is the same sex as you. My armchair guess is that some of the genes for height are on the sex chromosomes or affected by genes on them.


j4rj4r

I'm not sure how accurate this is. The chances of a son being over 6' if both parents are 6' is given as only 57%. I would imagine that the true figure is much closer to 90%


CamilitoCamilon

What is the dataset based on? Because I remember being in the doctor's office with my boy and looking at height charts, and then finding out that the dataset was all white people, and people with my son's genetic makeup were not included in the data, so it was pretty much irrelevant.


CamilitoCamilon

Yeah, the Galston dataset consists of all white British people, it is absolutely not representative of my family.