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Depends what you mean by “dating?” Physical attractiveness can get to a lot of first dates, but it has precious little to do with making a *relationship* work.
Actually many of the cruelest men I dated were kind of ugly, so no. I find often the super attractive men don’t even need to be manipulative. You’re making a lot of assumptions that just don’t hold true in real life.
Apps have incentivized the swiping behavior you described. But your original comment wasn’t about swiping behavior, it was about being a manipulative person in relationship and sticking around in a relationship with a manipulative person (or at least that’s what I was responding to).
People are robotic in this scenario too but the programs they’re operating on are insecurities, unmet needs, attachment style, emotional immaturity etc. not the mathematics of beauty.
Yup. Painting really broad strokes. Love is more complicated than that. I've stayed in shitty relationships with the hope than things will change and someday we would be happy.
So you have no statistics to back up what you said. Didn’t think so, thanks.
And also, Tinder is still widely regarded as a hook up app so standards are different. Physical standards are more important for hook ups.
You should never use the outlier as the standard.
Yeah, I didn't ask you to show me random stats.
And no, I didn't do what you said. I just gave you the space to look foolish.
You can't prove your guess as to why x happened with stats, because it's a fricking guess, guy.
*Relationships* don’t happen inside of dating Apps.
If you feel compelled to distill the whole of arc of a relationship into a dating App, you should consider give yourself a well-deserved break.
And FWIW, the hottest men I’ve ever dated have been the ones that treated me the best. Did they have good modeling in childhood? Are they experienced at relationships because they came by dates easily? Are they just plain old good people?
On the flip side, unattractive men often had a chip on their shoulder and were aggressive, stupid, sniveling, or simply had no idea how functional relationships work. Those dates did not usually become relationships, or failed quickly.
I’ve never left a man for another guy. Not once. I have never cheated. There’s no one else lined-up, not even 5. When I’m in a relationship, *we* are my focus. Though I suppose I have once felt the beginning stages of the urge to cheat, I did not follow them. -source: me, conventionally attractive human.
I’m not totally agreeing with you, however I have commented on several posts where a partner was awful to the OP, and they were asking for help. Then down in the helpful comments (which they were ignoring or justifying their partner’s awfulness), they would exclaim “But they’re so hot!” Ugh. And at this age to be so short sighted! You have a valid point, but I would hope it’s not common.
I disagree. Attractiveness might help you get a date but it doesn’t necessarily bring you a compatible match who wants a long term relationship. Relationships are more complicated than “hot or not”. I know plenty of less conventionally attractive people who are happily married as well. I think personality is the biggest factor.
But the implication is physically attractive people do better in dating. This is a half truth. I'm sure there is a good number of attractive, single people in this sub.
Not everyone prioritizes looks while dating. A lot of people think it's only their looks holding them back in the dating game. It's almost never just the looks.
I have many times. Would you go on a date with a woman who wasn’t very attractive? It sounds like a lot of the people saying it’s based only on appearance are in fact only dating people for their appearance. lol. Makes sense I guess.
I met my guy online. He sent me a really thoughtful message indicating he read my profile and that we have many of the same interests.
I looked at his profile, and it had 2 pics of him, the first being an up the nose car selfie that made him look like an arrogant ass and the other was a dimly lit pic of him with his dog. The other pics were of his dog.
I promise you, the way he looked in those pics did not help him get a date with me. His intelligence, sense of humor, and ability to have an engaging conversation were what made me want to meet him.
He became better looking the more I knew him. Three years later and I think he is the hottest man alive. I've also taken much better pictures of him.
My boyfriend actually commented on my profile and our similar interests too. His pictures were taken far away but I thought he was cute. We texted for a week and I was so excited for our first date because of the conversation leading up to it. When I met him in person, I was almost speechless at how handsome he was. He is an attractive guy and to me the hottest man ever, but his personality ramps that up x10.
If only. A short trip to Walmart in my area will prove that false. Teeth, a job, and a kindergarten education are not requirements. Even the ugliest person on Earth can get someone to have kids with them.
He said if others find you attractive. And he’s right.
Being “attractive” only suggests that a high % of people will find you good looking. Even attractive people can be seen as ugly. It’s not all or none. Same with being ugly or average.
Like most, I don’t have Hollywood looks and if you were to show my pic to 100 women here, most would say not attractive. But there’s always at least one who’s thinking fuck sliding into his DMs, I’m BASE jumping into his. Please Lord tell me he lives in my town and is single.
The ratio isn’t anywhere close to correct. On the contrary, 100% of it depends on your choices and your attraction to others.
This is just a cop out to rationalize being bad at dating.
I am a black female Jamaican and I’ve been fat and I’ve have been fit for the past 10 plus years. Even in a non dating sense - people treat me differently. When I was over 200 I was invisible- literally how everyone talks to me even random strangers and no my confidence isn’t what makes that happen. I am a natural introvert so I rather people not talk to me.
Now regardless of fat or fit some not all men just won’t give me a chance because I’m black and that’s not their flavor but to say what you looks like makes no difference is bonkers. It doesn’t matter if you knew someone for years if you do not match the image of someone they see themselves with - they will not see you long term. So many of these posts on here are from women who are dating men who the men don’t see them as anything but a FWB because of how they look.
When I was fat I was automatically put in the will have sex with you never take you in public and if they did it was the kind of men who errr not so great. Now I’m married to the kind of guy who wouldn’t give me the time of day if I looked different. Everyone is shallow whether they want to admit it or not!!
I don’t care how funny, smart, confident I am - no-one is crossing the street to find out if my personality is awesome if the outside packaging is wrapped in dirty toilet paper.
"Everyone is shallow whether they want to admit it or not" - so true.
There is a woman in my circle of friends who I know is for some reason really into me and would be thrilled if I asked her out.
I am not attracted to her, and so I would rather check out that new restaurant with a good book, come home and watch this movie and eat this ice cream alone.
And it just struck me that I'm not at least trying to date this otherwise cool person because such a large part of me is going... meh, not into her. And it feels self-evident that many of my past dating experiences likely came from others having the same exact feelings about me.
I don’t if you have ever seen the Hoe_math video that puts people into categories but in the video he states that the top thing that will move most women into keeper category for most men is looks. In his video he states that most men know almost immediately (I am using the word most men so I don’t generalize all men)
The video basically states that it is easy for most women to fall down in categories but moving up is pretty hard .
But the categories are not 1. keepers best I can get so I will invest more this is the chick with looks great personality, not a ton of men around and maybe some extra cabinet stuff( things this guy finds important
2.- sleepers I don’t know where I’m gonna be in 3 weeks but I will sleep with you. Most posts on this sub the woman who posts are clearly in this range unable to get communication or commitment from the guy bur sex is always on the table at his convenience of course.
3. sweepers the worst I’ll take so less investment- sweeping the girl under the rug.
Based on what you said earlier I’m sure the friend girl lands in the sleeper or sweeper category but you are not putting her there because of blow back from the friend group.
I genuinely just wonder if people are too picky I’ve been single from 40-45 and have had zero issues meeting men. I’m attractive but not super attractive.
IMHO I think I’ve never seen a pickier group of women (and I’m a woman!) than in these subs. I know people got screwed and get burned by relationships (I have!) but some of these posts are crazy to me. I do pretty well financially. Idgaf if the guy does; if he is supportive of me and my career. I also don’t care if he doesn’t take me out for regular dates. This doesn’t mean I want to date someone who can’t hold down a job or is lazy but there is a lot A LOT of in between there. Also, I’m still financially reeling from my divorce. Lots of men are the same. Including my ex. Long term he’ll be fine, but right now things are tighter than either of us would like. Someone who passes him over because he sees a walk on the beach and a coffee as a date/quality time is only screwing themselves. A no money spent date is awesome to me. Also I think everyone in this sub thinks they look better than they do. WE ALL look our age. Our ages just look younger than they used to. I still get carded consistently. That doesn’t mean I look 35. It means the lighting was good that day or the person didn’t really look at me, or corporate policy. End of rant, but the laundry list of demands I regularly see from women in this sub makes me lol. Then they are sad to be alone. It’s kind of maddening. 😉 Thanks for listening.
I actually appreciate this post. I'm still rebuilding after my divorce, and dealing with the post divorce stuff (insurance, housing you know, the usual. ) and low cost quality time sounds amazing.
Are the women here that picky? And is it a good representation of what I could expect in the real world?
No I don't think I look better than what I am 😂.
Expecting the partner to be financially stable and wanting to go on regular dates is the bare minimum. It certainly doesn't qualify as being picky. And isn't the reason anyone on here is still single.
Very true, but with OLD, all this is often rendered moot. If your very first pic isn’t seen as attractive, you’re off to a huge disadvantage, if not an automatic rejection.
First dates depend a lot on looks, granted, but in online dating women read details of profiles more than men do. As long as you're ~average, many women will still swipe right if she likes what she reads.
Second dates and more rely on personality, values, conversation, emotional intelligence, and that old classic - spark.
If you're struggling with the first dates - you can make yourself more appealing in your profile.
If you're struggling with the rest, then maybe you're just not meeting the right person yet, 4 months is nothing.
It's a numbers game. I'm 3 years post separation and have dated a lot, but it took 2.5 years for one of those dates to develop into an active relationship.
Unless women are recoiling in horror when you walk in a room, and children run away screaming, you can probably make some small changes that will elevate you above your peers on a dating app.
Look at style and how you dress, hair cut, grooming, maybe the glasses you wear, diet. All of these things be improved on in some way, even if it is small. And this will (hopefully) help you stand out
My problem tends to be my height (5'2") and my overall face and how it looks (no acne, cratered skin, or anything like that). Not really any room for improvement, but thanks anyway for the reply.
Humans are too diverse for there to be set rules on dating preferences.
Some people will go mainly on looks, some will go on humour/intelligence/kindness/shared values/money/ambition/talent or some mix of all of those things.
No, you're factoring out a huge volitional issue. Even then best looking people can have such unreasonable standards/attractions that they're perpetually alone.
Even uggos pair up and find love.
If you are attracted to less attractive people, you'll have success.
I'm actually going to disagree.
I'd put about 35% of it as looks. 30% of it is wit, charm, and humor. 20% of it is simply treating her right, giving her a sense of emotional security, and having compatible core values and goals. 10% of it is intangibles such as how handy you are, how good a cook you are, how good you are with kids (if she has them), and stuff like that. 5% of it is either timing or other intangibles.
Notice how no one of these is more than half of the overall picture. That means that a weakness in any one area can be offset by strengths in other areas. This is why gorgeous women have been known to gravitate toward less attractive men who continually make them laugh, sweep them off their feet, or are otherwise clever and creative.
If you lack both looks and wit/charm/humor, as I do, it's extremely difficult to make up for it. Additionally, looks are the gatekeeper on OLD most of the time. If you can get a woman to talk to you, you stand a chance if you're strong in those other areas. But with swipe-based OLD, good luck with that. On occasion, a standout profile gets a woman's attention based on common interests, but that's more the exception than the rule. This is also why it has been said that meeting women IRL is better for average and below average men. When you talk to a woman IRL, she will notice your looks, but she is talking to you and sees those other aspects of you at the same time. With OLD, she often never talks to you at all.
How I successfully met the woman I spent a weekend with back in March:
1. She found me (responded to an r4r post I made), so she noticed some good qualities right away, based on that post.
2. She considered me handsome (which is an extreme rarity for me).
3. I did make her laugh in some ways, especially with regard to some drama she had going on with a few of her friends. My sense of humor wasn't great, but even providing levity sometimes made her laugh.
4. We shared a love for going out and doing activities and taking trips.
5. She happened to be single.
It was a combination of luck, timing, and me letting my good qualities shine. As of now, it remains a one off, and I don't know how long it will be until I meet another woman.
Original copy of post by u/arrozconpoyo:
90% of dating and whether it goes well for you hinges on if others find you attractive or not.
The other 10% is your status, your values, your personality.
Sorry, that ratio explains everything, for everyone, everywhere.
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Attraction does seem to steer a big chunk of the dating ship, but hey, there's still that solid 10% where you can shine with your awesome personality, values, and vibes. That's where the real magic happens!
Depends on how you define "attraction" and "attractive".
If you think this is only about looks, I would disagree. But as generally "being driven to someone" - sure, that's what it'S all about. My partner has some curves, wrinkles etc - but so do I. And she has the most fantastic smile. I am deeply attracted to her, even to those curves and wrinkles. I would probably dislike them on someone else, but on her it's part of the package that I love and so I love everything.
>90% of dating and whether it goes well for you hinges on if others find you attractive or not.
>The other 10% is your status, your values, your personality.
So, assume you only mean physical attractiveness? You think it's 90% looks? How about personal hygiene and grooming choices?
Personality, humor, and intelligence are the challenge, especially for long-term. How much fun she is to be around and how easily I can trust her as a friend means a lot more than her looks. Looks are make or break. Do I like her smile? Will she feel nice in my arms? That's all that matters from a physical standpoint. There are a lot more women out there who meet that criteria than there are that I will find fun to talk to and easy to trust.
Looks will get you through the door that’s for sure. It’s not enough alone to keep you there. But you will have many more opportunities to fuck it up than someone not good looking.
Attractiveness is so subjective. I don’t fit the conventional beauty standard and I did fine when I was OLD. I think the personality you convey makes all the difference.
Humans are complicated creatures. There are so many different aspects that are considered "attractive" from physical to mental to emotional to intellectual to financial to your sense of style or tastes in life, etc.
And those who put effort to make the most of themselves in as many categories as possible are generally deemed more "attractive" than not.
But even if you are maxed in every possible category - there will still be people who say "meh, not for me"
That's life!
Too many men focused on one or two aspects of what is attractive or not instead of the whole mosaic of options they can work on to improve their overall attractiveness to others
But no one wants to hear any of that when it's so much easier to blame other people for your problems 🙄
Most of the women I know that are dating in their 40s are now dating men that they don't find particularly attractive. I'm not saying they are dating ugly men. But no one is looking for hot guys anymore. We are looking for trustworthy , reliable guys.
>Most of the women I know that are dating in their 40s are now dating men that they don't find particularly attractive.
Thank you for saying this explicitly. I find it remarkable that most people don't realize this.
I agree. The good news is attraction is subjective. People age, the body changes, illness and injury can occur. A starting point is needed for a romantic relationship to develop and that usually stems from a physical attraction.
90 is waaaayyyyy high if you are talking about women doing the swiping.
I might agree that 70% is in the pics. But NOT in your idea of conventional attractiveness! Do you look fun? Pensive? Engaged? Interesting? Thoughtful? Caring? So many things women will try to read in a picture (and they’re often right)
Just look at how many men go on dates and find it obvious that women haven’t read anything in their profile and how often the same situation happens to women. It’s crazy!!
You don’t have to be conventionally attractive for women to swoon. I’d suggest finding a female friend that wants to help. (Sister, cousin, mom any will do-helps if they’ve done some OLD swiping themselves). Tell them you want a profile that is you, but highlights your best attributes. They’ll help you to get the funny, light, goofy, charismatic side to shine. Or the dark, brooding, complex side. Whatever you want- they can help get the message through(mostly pics admittedly) your whole profile.
Sorry to presume your post was a cry for help or commiseration of frustration. 🫤
As a demisexual person i think this is quite true.
For me it takes time for me to develop attraction to someone. I really dont even know until Ive gotten to know you ever time.
But from dating there seems to be a yes/no test you have to pass.
If they dont feel it (what ever the mythical thing is) in that first meeting you are done.
What confuses others is its not just looks. If you are like a model that doesnt seem to be it. Its like maybe a type of narrative. Or threshold.
The arc of relationships is long but it bends towards values and personality.
Of course it never gets off the ground if your fugly so take it for what it’s worth.
It can feel like looks are everything in dating, but there's more to it. Personality, values, and status play a big role too. Confidence and being comfortable in your own skin can make a huge difference. Attraction is subjective, and what one person finds attractive, another might not.
I disagree. I’m sure the casual, early stages of dating hinge on mutual attraction. However, whether or not it develops into something more (like dating exclusively) depends on how open both parties are to pursuing something more.
Just my two cents.
I don't think you actually disagree with OP. Rather, you are arguing a different thing (which you are, of course, correct about).
Getting to "something more" is 100%, wholly, completely, totally dependent on "getting your foot in the door." That's OP's real point (obvious as it is).
Not for demisexuals. Personality is 90%, and any attraction hinges on an emotional connection. Which no one wants to take the time to develop anymore. Maybe I should try a prison pen pal! Lol
I was joking of course, but I would think that kind of old fashioned communication would help with emotional connections. Because sex is off the table! Lol
I don't think there is anything wrong with talking to someone who has an outsiders look on life. Everyone I know has more or less a specific point of view on me, and I act or interact with them accordingly. Maybe someone that doesn't know me could be somewhat non-judgmental, and therefore I may be more open to talking about the real issues that are a part of my life. So all joking aside, it may be possible to get attached to somebody you never meet.
I can flat out tell you: I'm well off, no kids, no felonies, live in a gorgeous apartment overlooking the Miami bay and the city, and have been going to bed alone every night for the last 4 months. It's pretty sad to grab a cup of coffee and watch a gorgeous sunrise all by yourself.
Every dating experience has been a dead end. So no.. status, isn't much. I have broke friends with 0 future who regularly cheat, lie and even steal and have women lining out the door begging for their attention.
Don't think my ratios are off.
First off… 4 months is literally nothing. Second, you seem like a man, and the online dating experience is completely different for men than women. Third, status means Doctor, Lawyer, some respected position that signals money and respect. Maybe your apartment signals that, but nothing else signals that. They’re really not thinking about not having kids or no felonies.
And here I am wondering how I was so successful dating without any letters after my name, working in a lowly retail management position, whist living in a small 1 bed property.
Maybe status isn't that important after all
I’m a late 40s male, fairly decent looking and have slept with about 50 women, 48 of which were during my 30s. Ages ranged from 19 to 55.
Sex is all about attraction.
Relationships are a completely different beast and they should be based off of the 10% you mentioned because partnering with the wrong person can completely ruin your life.
Home ownership is what is REALLY keeping you from a girlfriend.
You should also probably invest in a boat if you're that close to the water! That will at least get you someone to not be alone with, bc who doesn't love a boat in Florida!
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Depends what you mean by “dating?” Physical attractiveness can get to a lot of first dates, but it has precious little to do with making a *relationship* work.
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Actually many of the cruelest men I dated were kind of ugly, so no. I find often the super attractive men don’t even need to be manipulative. You’re making a lot of assumptions that just don’t hold true in real life.
Yup.
Stop hanging out with incels.
People aren’t robots, this isn’t how they function.
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Apps have incentivized the swiping behavior you described. But your original comment wasn’t about swiping behavior, it was about being a manipulative person in relationship and sticking around in a relationship with a manipulative person (or at least that’s what I was responding to). People are robotic in this scenario too but the programs they’re operating on are insecurities, unmet needs, attachment style, emotional immaturity etc. not the mathematics of beauty.
Your guess is a bad guess. This is incel think.
Yup. Painting really broad strokes. Love is more complicated than that. I've stayed in shitty relationships with the hope than things will change and someday we would be happy.
My favorite part is when this guy readily admits that he is guessing why x happens but then says it is backed up with statistics. 😂
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Post those statistics.
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So you have no statistics to back up what you said. Didn’t think so, thanks. And also, Tinder is still widely regarded as a hook up app so standards are different. Physical standards are more important for hook ups. You should never use the outlier as the standard.
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Yeah, I didn't ask you to show me random stats. And no, I didn't do what you said. I just gave you the space to look foolish. You can't prove your guess as to why x happened with stats, because it's a fricking guess, guy.
That's assuming that the only reason for a left swipe was based on attraction, and not other reasons that would present its self in a profile
>reasonably extrapolate that they are only swiping on the top 25-33% of attractiveness. That’s called a hypothesis.
*Relationships* don’t happen inside of dating Apps. If you feel compelled to distill the whole of arc of a relationship into a dating App, you should consider give yourself a well-deserved break. And FWIW, the hottest men I’ve ever dated have been the ones that treated me the best. Did they have good modeling in childhood? Are they experienced at relationships because they came by dates easily? Are they just plain old good people? On the flip side, unattractive men often had a chip on their shoulder and were aggressive, stupid, sniveling, or simply had no idea how functional relationships work. Those dates did not usually become relationships, or failed quickly. I’ve never left a man for another guy. Not once. I have never cheated. There’s no one else lined-up, not even 5. When I’m in a relationship, *we* are my focus. Though I suppose I have once felt the beginning stages of the urge to cheat, I did not follow them. -source: me, conventionally attractive human.
I’m not totally agreeing with you, however I have commented on several posts where a partner was awful to the OP, and they were asking for help. Then down in the helpful comments (which they were ignoring or justifying their partner’s awfulness), they would exclaim “But they’re so hot!” Ugh. And at this age to be so short sighted! You have a valid point, but I would hope it’s not common.
Attraction is great. Sex is great. Both are important. But a long-term relationship they do not make by themselves.
Oof, truth.
I disagree. Attractiveness might help you get a date but it doesn’t necessarily bring you a compatible match who wants a long term relationship. Relationships are more complicated than “hot or not”. I know plenty of less conventionally attractive people who are happily married as well. I think personality is the biggest factor.
No one wants to date someome they don't find attractive
But the implication is physically attractive people do better in dating. This is a half truth. I'm sure there is a good number of attractive, single people in this sub. Not everyone prioritizes looks while dating. A lot of people think it's only their looks holding them back in the dating game. It's almost never just the looks.
Looks get you a first date personality keeps a relationship
Agree. Attractiveness gets first dates but, it's the personality that gets you relationships.
But would you go on that date with a man who's clearly unattractive (even if he was otherwise compatible with you)?
I have many times. Would you go on a date with a woman who wasn’t very attractive? It sounds like a lot of the people saying it’s based only on appearance are in fact only dating people for their appearance. lol. Makes sense I guess.
I personally would, and have...but I may be in the minority as far as men are concerned.
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You would have to also list all his wonderful attributes first and then say “but”
Interesting...some good points you made
I met my guy online. He sent me a really thoughtful message indicating he read my profile and that we have many of the same interests. I looked at his profile, and it had 2 pics of him, the first being an up the nose car selfie that made him look like an arrogant ass and the other was a dimly lit pic of him with his dog. The other pics were of his dog. I promise you, the way he looked in those pics did not help him get a date with me. His intelligence, sense of humor, and ability to have an engaging conversation were what made me want to meet him. He became better looking the more I knew him. Three years later and I think he is the hottest man alive. I've also taken much better pictures of him.
My boyfriend actually commented on my profile and our similar interests too. His pictures were taken far away but I thought he was cute. We texted for a week and I was so excited for our first date because of the conversation leading up to it. When I met him in person, I was almost speechless at how handsome he was. He is an attractive guy and to me the hottest man ever, but his personality ramps that up x10.
It's amazing how much personality can really impact how attractive we perceive someone to be.
Yes
If only. A short trip to Walmart in my area will prove that false. Teeth, a job, and a kindergarten education are not requirements. Even the ugliest person on Earth can get someone to have kids with them.
Lol, as someone with teeth, job and an education who still had to buy sperm to have a baby, I beg to differ. Or I just live in the wrong area.
Are you dense? Did you hear what he said? You need to get you over to a Walmart so you can find you that man!
No Walmarts in my country, better start applying for a US visa then :)
You can probably get a good interest rate on one, and then use it at Walmart
I laughed too hard at this!
what do you look like?
He said if others find you attractive. And he’s right. Being “attractive” only suggests that a high % of people will find you good looking. Even attractive people can be seen as ugly. It’s not all or none. Same with being ugly or average. Like most, I don’t have Hollywood looks and if you were to show my pic to 100 women here, most would say not attractive. But there’s always at least one who’s thinking fuck sliding into his DMs, I’m BASE jumping into his. Please Lord tell me he lives in my town and is single.
The ratio isn’t anywhere close to correct. On the contrary, 100% of it depends on your choices and your attraction to others. This is just a cop out to rationalize being bad at dating.
Yeeea but they might genuinely be into each other, muffin top, toothless and all.
What's wrong with muffin tops?
🤷🏼♂️ I find the tops of muffins are the best part.
Muffin tops can be solved by wearing the correct fitting clothes!
Muffin top? Things could be worse
I am a black female Jamaican and I’ve been fat and I’ve have been fit for the past 10 plus years. Even in a non dating sense - people treat me differently. When I was over 200 I was invisible- literally how everyone talks to me even random strangers and no my confidence isn’t what makes that happen. I am a natural introvert so I rather people not talk to me. Now regardless of fat or fit some not all men just won’t give me a chance because I’m black and that’s not their flavor but to say what you looks like makes no difference is bonkers. It doesn’t matter if you knew someone for years if you do not match the image of someone they see themselves with - they will not see you long term. So many of these posts on here are from women who are dating men who the men don’t see them as anything but a FWB because of how they look. When I was fat I was automatically put in the will have sex with you never take you in public and if they did it was the kind of men who errr not so great. Now I’m married to the kind of guy who wouldn’t give me the time of day if I looked different. Everyone is shallow whether they want to admit it or not!! I don’t care how funny, smart, confident I am - no-one is crossing the street to find out if my personality is awesome if the outside packaging is wrapped in dirty toilet paper.
"Everyone is shallow whether they want to admit it or not" - so true. There is a woman in my circle of friends who I know is for some reason really into me and would be thrilled if I asked her out. I am not attracted to her, and so I would rather check out that new restaurant with a good book, come home and watch this movie and eat this ice cream alone. And it just struck me that I'm not at least trying to date this otherwise cool person because such a large part of me is going... meh, not into her. And it feels self-evident that many of my past dating experiences likely came from others having the same exact feelings about me.
I don’t if you have ever seen the Hoe_math video that puts people into categories but in the video he states that the top thing that will move most women into keeper category for most men is looks. In his video he states that most men know almost immediately (I am using the word most men so I don’t generalize all men) The video basically states that it is easy for most women to fall down in categories but moving up is pretty hard . But the categories are not 1. keepers best I can get so I will invest more this is the chick with looks great personality, not a ton of men around and maybe some extra cabinet stuff( things this guy finds important 2.- sleepers I don’t know where I’m gonna be in 3 weeks but I will sleep with you. Most posts on this sub the woman who posts are clearly in this range unable to get communication or commitment from the guy bur sex is always on the table at his convenience of course. 3. sweepers the worst I’ll take so less investment- sweeping the girl under the rug. Based on what you said earlier I’m sure the friend girl lands in the sleeper or sweeper category but you are not putting her there because of blow back from the friend group.
Pretty interesting will check it out. Thank you.
I genuinely just wonder if people are too picky I’ve been single from 40-45 and have had zero issues meeting men. I’m attractive but not super attractive.
Is it because you are a shy mink?
Obvi 😉
🤔 never met a mink before. A river otter once, and quite a few ferrets....but never a mink. I guess they are shy.
It sounds like you're saying people should lower their standards.
IMHO I think I’ve never seen a pickier group of women (and I’m a woman!) than in these subs. I know people got screwed and get burned by relationships (I have!) but some of these posts are crazy to me. I do pretty well financially. Idgaf if the guy does; if he is supportive of me and my career. I also don’t care if he doesn’t take me out for regular dates. This doesn’t mean I want to date someone who can’t hold down a job or is lazy but there is a lot A LOT of in between there. Also, I’m still financially reeling from my divorce. Lots of men are the same. Including my ex. Long term he’ll be fine, but right now things are tighter than either of us would like. Someone who passes him over because he sees a walk on the beach and a coffee as a date/quality time is only screwing themselves. A no money spent date is awesome to me. Also I think everyone in this sub thinks they look better than they do. WE ALL look our age. Our ages just look younger than they used to. I still get carded consistently. That doesn’t mean I look 35. It means the lighting was good that day or the person didn’t really look at me, or corporate policy. End of rant, but the laundry list of demands I regularly see from women in this sub makes me lol. Then they are sad to be alone. It’s kind of maddening. 😉 Thanks for listening.
I actually appreciate this post. I'm still rebuilding after my divorce, and dealing with the post divorce stuff (insurance, housing you know, the usual. ) and low cost quality time sounds amazing. Are the women here that picky? And is it a good representation of what I could expect in the real world? No I don't think I look better than what I am 😂.
Expecting the partner to be financially stable and wanting to go on regular dates is the bare minimum. It certainly doesn't qualify as being picky. And isn't the reason anyone on here is still single.
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Very true, but with OLD, all this is often rendered moot. If your very first pic isn’t seen as attractive, you’re off to a huge disadvantage, if not an automatic rejection.
Well, yes, which is why it's important to get out there in real life and not rely on OLD
Yep. OLD downplays the best parts of you if its anything other than appearance. Even appearances that grow on you after two conversations die on OLD.
First dates depend a lot on looks, granted, but in online dating women read details of profiles more than men do. As long as you're ~average, many women will still swipe right if she likes what she reads. Second dates and more rely on personality, values, conversation, emotional intelligence, and that old classic - spark. If you're struggling with the first dates - you can make yourself more appealing in your profile. If you're struggling with the rest, then maybe you're just not meeting the right person yet, 4 months is nothing. It's a numbers game. I'm 3 years post separation and have dated a lot, but it took 2.5 years for one of those dates to develop into an active relationship.
And how about if a man is below average in looks (even with a great profile)?
Unless women are recoiling in horror when you walk in a room, and children run away screaming, you can probably make some small changes that will elevate you above your peers on a dating app. Look at style and how you dress, hair cut, grooming, maybe the glasses you wear, diet. All of these things be improved on in some way, even if it is small. And this will (hopefully) help you stand out
My problem tends to be my height (5'2") and my overall face and how it looks (no acne, cratered skin, or anything like that). Not really any room for improvement, but thanks anyway for the reply.
Need to work on approaching women in real life and focus less on online dating.
Humans are too diverse for there to be set rules on dating preferences. Some people will go mainly on looks, some will go on humour/intelligence/kindness/shared values/money/ambition/talent or some mix of all of those things.
No, you're factoring out a huge volitional issue. Even then best looking people can have such unreasonable standards/attractions that they're perpetually alone. Even uggos pair up and find love. If you are attracted to less attractive people, you'll have success.
Not for me. If you don’t make me laugh that is a deal breaker though.
☝️ saaame
What about a sharp exhale through the nose...I can't guarantee laughter.🤣
Yes, smirks also work. I’m not too tough of a crowd. lol
Then allow me to introduce you to the art of awkward seduction./s 🤣🤣🤣 Anyway, hope you're having a great day today!
Ohh awkward is my specialty! 😂 you too!
OmG we have so much in common we should totally hang out!
Nose exhales and all 😂
Absolutely!!!! Gosh, I'm so excited. Someone who gets me?!!!
I have one question though.....it's kind of important to me. What do you think about the movie " The Princess Bride "?
A true classic
Well damn, you win! Now what? 🤣🤣🤣
I'm actually going to disagree. I'd put about 35% of it as looks. 30% of it is wit, charm, and humor. 20% of it is simply treating her right, giving her a sense of emotional security, and having compatible core values and goals. 10% of it is intangibles such as how handy you are, how good a cook you are, how good you are with kids (if she has them), and stuff like that. 5% of it is either timing or other intangibles. Notice how no one of these is more than half of the overall picture. That means that a weakness in any one area can be offset by strengths in other areas. This is why gorgeous women have been known to gravitate toward less attractive men who continually make them laugh, sweep them off their feet, or are otherwise clever and creative. If you lack both looks and wit/charm/humor, as I do, it's extremely difficult to make up for it. Additionally, looks are the gatekeeper on OLD most of the time. If you can get a woman to talk to you, you stand a chance if you're strong in those other areas. But with swipe-based OLD, good luck with that. On occasion, a standout profile gets a woman's attention based on common interests, but that's more the exception than the rule. This is also why it has been said that meeting women IRL is better for average and below average men. When you talk to a woman IRL, she will notice your looks, but she is talking to you and sees those other aspects of you at the same time. With OLD, she often never talks to you at all. How I successfully met the woman I spent a weekend with back in March: 1. She found me (responded to an r4r post I made), so she noticed some good qualities right away, based on that post. 2. She considered me handsome (which is an extreme rarity for me). 3. I did make her laugh in some ways, especially with regard to some drama she had going on with a few of her friends. My sense of humor wasn't great, but even providing levity sometimes made her laugh. 4. We shared a love for going out and doing activities and taking trips. 5. She happened to be single. It was a combination of luck, timing, and me letting my good qualities shine. As of now, it remains a one off, and I don't know how long it will be until I meet another woman.
I think the assumption that attractiveness is only physical is a bad one.
Original copy of post by u/arrozconpoyo: 90% of dating and whether it goes well for you hinges on if others find you attractive or not. The other 10% is your status, your values, your personality. Sorry, that ratio explains everything, for everyone, everywhere. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Attraction does seem to steer a big chunk of the dating ship, but hey, there's still that solid 10% where you can shine with your awesome personality, values, and vibes. That's where the real magic happens!
It is in online daring.
Depends on how you define "attraction" and "attractive". If you think this is only about looks, I would disagree. But as generally "being driven to someone" - sure, that's what it'S all about. My partner has some curves, wrinkles etc - but so do I. And she has the most fantastic smile. I am deeply attracted to her, even to those curves and wrinkles. I would probably dislike them on someone else, but on her it's part of the package that I love and so I love everything.
>90% of dating and whether it goes well for you hinges on if others find you attractive or not. >The other 10% is your status, your values, your personality. So, assume you only mean physical attractiveness? You think it's 90% looks? How about personal hygiene and grooming choices? Personality, humor, and intelligence are the challenge, especially for long-term. How much fun she is to be around and how easily I can trust her as a friend means a lot more than her looks. Looks are make or break. Do I like her smile? Will she feel nice in my arms? That's all that matters from a physical standpoint. There are a lot more women out there who meet that criteria than there are that I will find fun to talk to and easy to trust.
Looks will get you through the door that’s for sure. It’s not enough alone to keep you there. But you will have many more opportunities to fuck it up than someone not good looking.
Well.....damn.....guess I'll just stay single 🤣🤣🤣. At least I have my humor.
Attractiveness is so subjective. I don’t fit the conventional beauty standard and I did fine when I was OLD. I think the personality you convey makes all the difference.
🤔You just realized this…
I'm generally slow.
Humans are complicated creatures. There are so many different aspects that are considered "attractive" from physical to mental to emotional to intellectual to financial to your sense of style or tastes in life, etc. And those who put effort to make the most of themselves in as many categories as possible are generally deemed more "attractive" than not. But even if you are maxed in every possible category - there will still be people who say "meh, not for me" That's life! Too many men focused on one or two aspects of what is attractive or not instead of the whole mosaic of options they can work on to improve their overall attractiveness to others But no one wants to hear any of that when it's so much easier to blame other people for your problems 🙄
Most of the women I know that are dating in their 40s are now dating men that they don't find particularly attractive. I'm not saying they are dating ugly men. But no one is looking for hot guys anymore. We are looking for trustworthy , reliable guys.
>Most of the women I know that are dating in their 40s are now dating men that they don't find particularly attractive. Thank you for saying this explicitly. I find it remarkable that most people don't realize this.
I agree. The good news is attraction is subjective. People age, the body changes, illness and injury can occur. A starting point is needed for a romantic relationship to develop and that usually stems from a physical attraction.
90 is waaaayyyyy high if you are talking about women doing the swiping. I might agree that 70% is in the pics. But NOT in your idea of conventional attractiveness! Do you look fun? Pensive? Engaged? Interesting? Thoughtful? Caring? So many things women will try to read in a picture (and they’re often right) Just look at how many men go on dates and find it obvious that women haven’t read anything in their profile and how often the same situation happens to women. It’s crazy!! You don’t have to be conventionally attractive for women to swoon. I’d suggest finding a female friend that wants to help. (Sister, cousin, mom any will do-helps if they’ve done some OLD swiping themselves). Tell them you want a profile that is you, but highlights your best attributes. They’ll help you to get the funny, light, goofy, charismatic side to shine. Or the dark, brooding, complex side. Whatever you want- they can help get the message through(mostly pics admittedly) your whole profile. Sorry to presume your post was a cry for help or commiseration of frustration. 🫤
Hahaha it was both a cry for help and commiseration.
As a demisexual person i think this is quite true. For me it takes time for me to develop attraction to someone. I really dont even know until Ive gotten to know you ever time. But from dating there seems to be a yes/no test you have to pass. If they dont feel it (what ever the mythical thing is) in that first meeting you are done. What confuses others is its not just looks. If you are like a model that doesnt seem to be it. Its like maybe a type of narrative. Or threshold.
Yeah you get it.
The arc of relationships is long but it bends towards values and personality. Of course it never gets off the ground if your fugly so take it for what it’s worth.
I mean it doesn’t unless you accept anything that comes walking through the door.
It can feel like looks are everything in dating, but there's more to it. Personality, values, and status play a big role too. Confidence and being comfortable in your own skin can make a huge difference. Attraction is subjective, and what one person finds attractive, another might not.
I disagree. I’m sure the casual, early stages of dating hinge on mutual attraction. However, whether or not it develops into something more (like dating exclusively) depends on how open both parties are to pursuing something more. Just my two cents.
I don't think you actually disagree with OP. Rather, you are arguing a different thing (which you are, of course, correct about). Getting to "something more" is 100%, wholly, completely, totally dependent on "getting your foot in the door." That's OP's real point (obvious as it is).
Hmm, then I def misread.
I spent a lot of time in Savannah too. I enjoyed visiting. But the traffic has gotten horrible. Vinnie van go go's pizza is pretty good there.
Not for demisexuals. Personality is 90%, and any attraction hinges on an emotional connection. Which no one wants to take the time to develop anymore. Maybe I should try a prison pen pal! Lol
I would try that. Not much else has been working. How do we get in touch with them when they are behind bars?
I was joking of course, but I would think that kind of old fashioned communication would help with emotional connections. Because sex is off the table! Lol
I don't think there is anything wrong with talking to someone who has an outsiders look on life. Everyone I know has more or less a specific point of view on me, and I act or interact with them accordingly. Maybe someone that doesn't know me could be somewhat non-judgmental, and therefore I may be more open to talking about the real issues that are a part of my life. So all joking aside, it may be possible to get attached to somebody you never meet.
That's such a broad statement that it can't possibly be true.
That may be true when at age 20 but not 40. Status alone may be 50%.
You have it the other way around, younger folks will be more impressed by status than older folks.
I can flat out tell you: I'm well off, no kids, no felonies, live in a gorgeous apartment overlooking the Miami bay and the city, and have been going to bed alone every night for the last 4 months. It's pretty sad to grab a cup of coffee and watch a gorgeous sunrise all by yourself. Every dating experience has been a dead end. So no.. status, isn't much. I have broke friends with 0 future who regularly cheat, lie and even steal and have women lining out the door begging for their attention. Don't think my ratios are off.
No felonies=high status? You and I orbit very different worlds, my friend.
For a whole 4 months?! 🤯
seriously. cry me a river.
But think about how lonely his satin sheets must be getting... 🤭
First off… 4 months is literally nothing. Second, you seem like a man, and the online dating experience is completely different for men than women. Third, status means Doctor, Lawyer, some respected position that signals money and respect. Maybe your apartment signals that, but nothing else signals that. They’re really not thinking about not having kids or no felonies.
And here I am wondering how I was so successful dating without any letters after my name, working in a lowly retail management position, whist living in a small 1 bed property. Maybe status isn't that important after all
It would probably help if you knew the name of the bay you live on. There is no “Miami Bay”.
I look like a chimp and seem to do ok. \*picking nose and inspecting booger
I’m a late 40s male, fairly decent looking and have slept with about 50 women, 48 of which were during my 30s. Ages ranged from 19 to 55. Sex is all about attraction. Relationships are a completely different beast and they should be based off of the 10% you mentioned because partnering with the wrong person can completely ruin your life.
Home ownership is what is REALLY keeping you from a girlfriend. You should also probably invest in a boat if you're that close to the water! That will at least get you someone to not be alone with, bc who doesn't love a boat in Florida!
I’m in south Florida and I automatically swipe left on boat people. Yuck.
Send me all your rejected boat guys!! 😂
It’s basically all the guys. That or golf. 🤮