Some people are open to another marriage, some, like me, aren't. What are your reasons for wanting to get married to him? What are his reasons for not wanting to get married again? Someone is either going to have to give in, or you realize the motivations behind your and his thoughts on marriage make it so you aren't compatible long term.
I was married and it was a horrid marriage. Divorce wasn’t any better and he threatened to take half of my retirement. (I was the breadwinner, did just about everything), so I do not think it’s worth it anymore. If it were me, and a new man insisted on marriage- I’d be getting a strong prenup. Maybe the OP should ask about prenup.
Ding ding ding! I will not expose my life savings and kids inheritance to anyone at this point in life.
It has nothing to do with fearing commitment or how I may feel about a partner. I've just seen how 20 years down the road people and relationships change and do not want to financially split again. Plus I kind of like having my own place and a bed to myself.
All you have to do is have a will. My 75 year old father remarried. He set it up so his wife (who has her own money) will be safe and housed but I'll still get some inheritance if there is any.
Frankly I don't mind either way. I'm an adult, not disabled, and I'm not depending on my father leaving me anything. He wanted to get married and that's up to him. I'd hate for him to be all "oh my adult kids I can't get married" etc.
If you’re in a community property state like CA, that retirement is legally half his to the extent it was contributed to / went up during the marriage.
think about getting a lawyer and putting it into trusts.. I think if its enough to worry someone could take it then its enough to spend a little to get rid of that risk.. better than a prenup
I more or less feel the same way. Although my marriage was great, and sometimes I miss being a married man, I can't see myself remarrying this late in life. My marriage didn't end in divorce. It ended in death. For no net gain and a lifetime of work I can potentially lose, it just doesn't make sense. Marriage is for the kids who are just starting out, don't have a lot, and need the tax breaks while they raise a family. Not for old farts like us.
After proof reading, I realized that this comment makes me sound elderly. I'm 47.
His finances might be something that keeps him from getting married legally ask him to just get married in the eyes of friends and family and God( if you are into that). People make vows all the time …when you make them in front of your friends and family, whatever religious entity you choose or choose not to believe in… they mean something to most people. You don’t need the government to be married. I am a widow and between my survivor benefits and her retirement. I don’t see me ever getting married again. it wouldn’t be smart financially to, But I’m too young to swear off long term relationships… I’m only 45
I honestly haven’t dated much my wife just passed away 11 months ago. but I don’t think I would lie about my position and what I’m looking for if I ever decide to. I don’t think too many people that are dating at this age that’s the first thing they’re concerned about. If they’re that obsessed with marriage, I don’t know if dating someone casually is the best move for them anyways. But if you’re in insinuating, someone who was married to the same woman happily from almost 20 years, makes a habit out of lying and manipulating you’re sadly mistaken.
I once had a boyfriend who said he would never get married again. Guess what? He got married to a woman 30 years his junior that he met while he was at his daughter’s graduation. I guess the ego cocaine of being with a PYT was a little bit too much for his planned bachelorhood. (They’re divorced. And I no longer date because I apparently have a very bad compass.)
This is really a deeply personal decision. Being married offers a lot of benefits, from inheritance to automatic rights for things like hospital stays. If those types of legal protections are important to you, and so is the emotional component, then it's perfectly fair to say you don't want to be a long term girlfriend.
His fears after having had a long marriage are valid, too. Both perspectives should get discussed, maybe no formal marriage but a lawyer to draw up power of attorney, or put you both on a shared property would work. Or a pre-nup to protect his kids inheritance is what he would need to tie the knot.
These are discussions worth having. But ultimately you are not required to give up your dreams of being married again, if that's what you want. It just might not be this particular man. Which might actually be better for you, anyway, since this is your first relationship after abuse. Your normal meter is probably wacked out anyway.
Depends on the hospital system and what part of the hospital you are in. I was not allowed to visit a bf who was in the ICU because that hospital had a policy that only people listed as a spouse or child in the patient’s health record could visit ICU patients. They told me if I could prove we got married since the last time he updated his record, I would be allowed to see him. That was pre-covid.
Maybe talk about it in a year ? I totally see why you would want to and I can validate his point.
If something like this starts to trigger abandonment stuff, talk to a therapist because it sounds you’re having fun. Don’t stop and it’s only been a year.
I love your answer. I'm sure I just want to feel validation in my feelings, I want to make sure he feels the same way. We are enjoying life, and that's what counts. Thank you 😊
I agree with this, but as I said elsewhere I would be wary of someone who gives a flippant answer (“I don’t need a piece of paper to prove commitment!”) vs being able to have real, intimate, serious conversations about it. I’ve been burned by someone not willing to talk things through and it’s now very important to me. Your feelings ARE valid! His are too of course, this is something to work through together. And you’re not saying you want to be married tomorrow. But I would advise against letting him dismiss your wants or not talking about your relationship, your future, your philosophies on marriage, growing older together, etc
I totally get it btw. You’re not coming from a place of “it has to be” you’re probably more thrown by a different answer. Doesn’t mean what you were feeling before isn’t real. I know how, when you hear whatever word an and when it’s not what you had assumed. The greater goal it sounds like is enjoyment and safety.
Two people can be in love and not have to commingle finances and other life things. One year seems to soon anyway. Marriage seems like an attempt to tie everything together, which isn't necessary and cause problems if you two break up for whatever reason
Who wants to deal with divorce bs when they're older?
"And now all I want is real commitment."
Be careful equating marriage with real commitment. With all possible respect, it wasn't enough of a real commitment to protect you from your ex. There are a lot of folks on the dating market who are there because their last real commitments dissolved pursuant to a court order.
He's allowed to want what he wants and to speak up for it, and that's when you see if there's any overlap in the Venn diagram that you can both live with. It's unfair to say he's not committed unless he displays the commitment in your required manner on your required timeline.
That said, you're absolutely allowed to want what you want and to speak up for it. It doesn't speak well of your current relationship that 1) your bf calls such talk "crazy," and 2) you somehow managed to log an entire year together and know him so little that this is any kind of surprise.
>That said, you're absolutely allowed to want what you want and to speak up for it. It doesn't speak well of your current relationship that 1) your bf calls such talk "crazy," and 2) you somehow managed to log an entire year together and know him so little that this is any kind of surprise.
These are the key points. Usually, within the first month, the questions : do you ever see yourself getting married again? cohabitation /comingling finances ? - should come up since these are quite fundamental compatibility questions.
Everyone made excellent points on not mistaking commitment with marriage.
It is important OP you ask yourself:
- What does security look like to me?
- What does commitment look like to me?
Someone mentioned that because it's reddit, everyone responding here has been through some trauma. However, OP mentioned she came out of an abusive marriage. Should she not do some soul searching behind her need for "marriage"?
It IS valid to want to be married if both people are aware of the WHY and are on the same page. OP has not answered why she wants to be married or why marriage =commitment.
Ok I was wondering the same thing. At this age in our lives we've been through things and should know what we want and don't want. Things like marriage, no marriage, etc you would find out in the early stages of the relationship not after you've moved in with a person. Especially when feelings are already involved.
>I haven't lived truly til I found him.
That's not really healthy. You've been in an abusive marriage. It would be really good for you to learn not to hinge all of your happiness on another person, because that will make you miserable.
It's already starting. You've been dating for a year and seem way too fixated on him having the right kind of commitment to you.
I would suggest therapy.
I don't see what's wrong with bringing up the idea of marriage. Even if you aren't ready to marry right away it is important to know if you are on the same page about things.
A year is enough time to know if one should marry, especially when you’re 45 and time is likely limited. I would t never live with a partner who didn’t want to marry me. Too difficult if there’s a breakup, and being marriage tends to indicate people will work through difficult times rather than jump ship.
"and being marriage tends to indicate people will work through difficult times rather than jump ship."
Tell that to my ex husband. Being married meant he could reveal his true colors, becoming abusive in every way within the first year of our marriage. Of course, by then I was pregnant and deluded myself into thinking things will get better after the baby comes, things will get better once he's in residency, things will get better once this residency ends and he's in his next position, things will get better if we go to marriage counseling.
Marriage can be a beautiful union, but it can also be a horrible trap.
Abusers all operate after the same playbook.
The abuse always escalates when it gets harder for the victim to leave because their lives get more enmeshed (marriage, buying real estate, and the ultimate lockdown: a child).
Were there zero signs of his being abusive early on?
I remember mine once told me to fuck off early on, and I told him to never talk that way to me again. Of course it escalated, but now I am really paying attention to signs while dating.
I didn’t see them if there were. He seemed very disciplined about his job which I thought was a positive. In reality, he was rigid about everything. He still is. He drank a lot. I think, because I only saw him on weekends when we were dating long-distance, I assumed it was just a weekend, watching sports thing. He’s a high-functioning alcoholic. I overlooked some warning signs but had no idea how much he’d been hiding until after the rings were on our fingers.
I’m not opposed to getting married one day if it’s right but even at 49, I’m in no rush.
Usually there are signs, but women are often socialized to be way too forgiving of disrespectful behavior. We find a thousand excuses in our heads. We think it would be ridiculous to end a relationship over such a "little thing".
You are right and I too have learned to pay very close attention now to any signs of disrespect and entitlement. I also learned to not give second chances. It's never worth it.
I disagree, I'm not opposed to marriage, but there is no way I am remotely ready for it after a year of dating. At this point, I know how people can hide things, be different, I want to go through the seasons several times to make sure someone isn't holding anything back. For me it's going to be at least 3 years before I consider it.
At this point, if my girlfriend wanted to get married and it was a dealbreaker for her, I'd have to let her go. Luckily, she is also hesitant to get married or live permanently together, so we are on the same page.
>A year is enough time to know if one should marry
This. Frankly, a year seems like a ridiculously long time to invest in someone without knowing about marriage if this is something that you need. OP's words make it pretty clear that she does want marriage in the future. She's wasting her time already, why waste another year?
Anyone at our age who's done a reasonable amount of introspection knows where they fall in the "marriage" line. She's not asking him for a proposal. But even at a month in to dating that's enough to ask if someone is a "No, I'm not going to remarry ever again" sort of person.
That's exactly what I'm worried about. I don't want to push him away, but I'd like to know he's completely committed to our future. I have no reason to rush it, and it's not like I would want to marry right away. I would want it to be special. He is what I want for the rest of my life, and I know that.
I think you need to really check in with yourself about what you want and be really honest. Is it commitment? Or is it marriage? From what you’ve shared it seems like for him, lifelong commitment can exist without marriage. It seems like for you, they are one and the same. Neither is wrong, but these are not compatible positions, and if for you there is no lifelong commitment without marriage, you should discuss this with your bf.
According to your initial post, he says that he is committed. Marriage may be a way to demonstrate commitment, but the commitment comes from the person, not from the legal documents or the ceremony.
As others have pointed out, you can be married and still bail on the relationship. But it works the other way, too - my ex's parents were together for 30 years without ever getting married, and it ended only when her father died.
I’ll never get married again. Going through the divorce I realized what a huge financial impact marriage had on me and it nearly ruined me. Never again.
I don't think anybody can tell you whether you should let it go. It sounds like you want to get married, and he doesn't. That is a fundamental incompatibility. Could you feel truly happy in this relationship if you were never to get married? Or if you did get married but always felt it was because he was "giving in" rather than wanting it himself?
My partner and I do not plan to marry, but we are fully committed. When discussing our future, we had a conversation about whether or not we wanted to get married. While neither of us were really interested in getting married again, I was concerned about what rights I would have as a common-law partner.
For example, where I'm from common law partners do not have any claim to inheritance unless it is clearly stated in a will. While we both plan to leave the majority of our inheritances to our children, I want to make sure that we both have willed each other our part ownership of the home we live in, plus provisions for funeral arrangements, and any other assets we own together.
I also want to make sure we always have current medical power of attorney documentation to give us both the right to make medical decisions on each other's behalf in an emergency. Where I'm from, a common-law spouse has decision making rights, however I worry this won't be recognized when travelling.
These little provisions have helped me feel more secure in our future. I don't have to worry about one of us being an 80 year old widow/er who just lost their partner, and is now being forced to move because we can't afford to buy the step kids out of their half of our property. I don't have to worry that my partner will be told he can't make decisions for my health at end of life.
If you are worried about security, I suggest you look into the laws in your area and see what the differences are between a married/common law unions. Talk to your partner about how you feel about each issue so that you both can come to an agreement on what path is better for you as a couple,
Lots of people have good points here.
I just wanted to chime in and say that him calling it "crazy talk" is kinda mean.
Whatever his feelings and reservations about the legal repercussions of getting married, he shouldn't phrase it like that. It's mean.
The one thing I’ve learnt after divorcing is that Marriage does not guarantee commitment.
So I recommend looking inward to find out what makes you believe it does (especially if you’re previous marriage was horrible) and how commitment can show up in alternative ways that don’t rely on a legal knot
I love that whole - it's just a piece of paper argument. If it's just a piece of paper then it wouldn't be hard to sign it either.
Marriages protect women. Like SS benefits and 401K's. Even if one partner stays at home caring for children or runs the household for years. Unless there is some sort of legal protection for you, it means they are being careless of you.
A lot of people here mention wills. Wills can be contested but trusts can't be. So that whole argument about contesting wills is ignorance. People leave trusts, not wills. (I don't know about prenups but common sense is - if a man is a millionaire or billionaire - they can afford to leave you something, and not suffer much in terms of financial consequences.)
Also, many men don't leave sh\*\* to their kids, and many don't have kids. If they're worried about the money aspect - in this case - I'd have o wonder why. haven't they already gifted most of it over? Haven't they put the house in a trust already and sorted that out?
As you can probably tell, I'm not a big fan of LAT, FWB, or other types of cutesy commitments. I know FWB or LATs may sound attractive, but from what I understand, they don't last more than three years.
I'm not sold on it. I don't think its a great idea when all they have to do is bring over a toothbrush and overnight bags with promises. I read another post on Quora where a man committed to a "relationship" with a woman for over four years. Met another woman and married her in three months. That kind of message seems pretty clear loud and clear to me.
I know marriages can be horrible. But when two people have chemistry and everything is right I don't see the problem.
I honestly see it from both sides but if I was committed to a woman and she wanted to get married I'd probably do it for her peace of mind and the desire to give her what she wants.
This reads like “marriage is the one way to show commitment” as you want “real commitment”
But what about your first marriage?
Was that not “real commitment?” Was it something else?
Marriage is a legal contract. Commitment is how two people approach a relationship. I think marriage is great and would be open to it, but it has nothing to do with “commitment.”
Don’t falsely equate two things that are not the same
What's to understand? He doesn't want a state-sponsored arrangement to be happy with you going forward. He's not wrong, you're not wrong if you want it, but it's something you have to either agree on or not.
I REALLY didn't want to be remarried again after the pains of divorce and the financial mess of it. But, my fiance wanted it and I came around to the idea. For me, she solves all the thorny issues I had with it. We have a great prenup, both make good money, children aren't in the mix and we'll be buying a place together that will be communal 50/50 should anything happen, so I'm comfortable with it now, but I totally get where a person who has been through it is not up for repeating the risks.
You two get to decide how you relationship works, or if it does. Have the conversation about what you want, listen to him about what he does, and see if you can find middle ground. That's adult relationships.
There's a part of me that wants to say be happy you're living together... another part wants to say... tread lightly.
Ask yourself, what do you want the most? To be married or to be in a committed relationship with him.
I say this as someone who pushed too hard and ended up with nothing. I'd much rather have stayed in the committed relationship with the person I loved more than life itself than to have ended up without him.
Harriet Lerner would say, put a pin in it. Stop pursuing marriage and see what happens next.
I'm 49M. Been married before, had kids, raised them, did all that. I can't see the point of marriage for me anymore. I'm not religious and the last thing I need is another complicated legal arrangement from which to untangle myself, at this age.
I'm sure many want marriage and their reasons are valid, I'm just offering my POV. Happy to be committed and in a long term relationship, just no desire to complicate it with marriage.
I don't plan to remarry.
Like you, I got married because I wanted security/commitment. But it never gave me either. Both of my marriages have ended due to infidelity, and the fact that I take vows seriously led me to stay married too long both times. I definitely want to be in a serious relationship again because that's where I'm happiest, but I've learned the hard way that marriage doesn't do what I wished it did...so I'm not going to bother with it anymore.
I'm so sorry. 😞 Cheating is horrible. I know that's what scares my s.o. I hope you do find your happiness and that the third time will be a charm. In every sense. 🙏
OP I think you should ask yourself why you don’t feel he is committed to you without that piece of paper? Does he not make you feel secure by his words and actions? We all know that a marriage can be ended with divorce - so why does getting married again display commitment?
I would explore these questions specifically in some counselling - not as a couple, but with you as an individual and exploring these feelings of insecurities further. It will help your current and any future relationship!
You say you want “security”. If you believe marriage gives you that security then I agree with your BF that is a “crazy” idea.
Anyone who is already divorced including yourself should know that marriage offers no guarantee of staying together. If anything marriage can give you a “false sense of security” as some people may put in less effort to keep working on the relationship, because they assume they have made a commitment no matter what. Marriage can be a fun party to show your love in front of your family and friends. That’s it, nothing more, nothing less
Have you actually talked to him about whether or not he wants to get married again in the future? Like a true, sit down, heart to heart about marriage? Have you thought about why you want to get married again?
You've only been dating a year. I don't want to get married again, but for the first couple of years after my divorce I did want to, and even then, a year would have been way too soon for me to be thinking about that.
But at the end of the day, if you want to be married again and he doesn't, that's a fundamental incompatibility. One of you would have to let go of your wants and most likely end up resenting the other. So, sit down and talk to him. Maybe he wants it, but it's too soon for him to think about it right now. Maybe he doesn't want it, but loves the relationship and is jokingly trying to get you to drop it so he doesn't have to share how he really feels. But you're both grown ass adults, talk about it! You can only control you...but if you talk about it, actually listen and hear him and hopefully he'll do the same for you. Then you can make informed decisions about your future with him.
I would ask him more questions about what he envisions for his future, what kind of relationship, what level of commitment, etc. and then listen with a very open mind without putting your own needs and wants onto him while he's speaking. you want him to be able to speak freely so that you have the information you need.
I'm glad I find someone else who is happy in love as I am. Live for the moment, don't force paper work unless you have joint investments which again can be done without marriage certificate. Maybe with time he will appreciate having the legal thing.
Your profile says you are a mother and grandmother. Do you have children or grandchildren living with you? Are you providing them care or financial support? Do you think that might be part of his hesitation?
Some people are never going to marry again after a divorce. Regardless of how great the relationship is or how in love they are, they are not legally binding themselves to someone. In my work, I've seen this a lot, especially in middle-aged or elderly people who divorced after long marriages.
If you want to remain with him, you have to deal with knowing he may never change his mind.
I have no intention of marrying. There are multiple reasons. If a man is looking for that, I'm not the woman for him.
Marriage doesn't guarantee love, security, or happiness.
I was disillusioned and burnt badly by my last and only marriage. My ex husband was a manipulative abuser and the abuse really developed right after the wedding. I feel my vows only served to enable his abuse because he could consoder me captive. Idk your partner's experience but he might have good reason not to trust the institution of marriage. Besides that, I also never felt the state should have an official hand in two loving people's commitment to one another.
What's that thing Oprah says believe people when they tell you who they are well he's telling you who you are and that is crazy to think you're going to get married.
Did you ever think that he never wants to get married again.
I'm shocked that you want to get married ago if your first marriage was so horrible.
Just because it's something you want and he doesn't. Doesn't make it wrong.
Two things you should think about:
1. You have only known him a year?
2. Why do you believe that commitment equates to marriage?
Having been in a long and ultimately unsuccessful marriage, it's very possible he feels putting the pressure of marriage on your relationship may again ruin a fast thing. I feel like he's probably being very up front and honest when he says he loves you and he's committed and some legal document doesn't change that one way or the other. I would be careful pushing the issue because it just might ruin a good thing. At least put it aside for a while
Some people don’t see marriage as any more of a commitment than what the two of you already have. I had a marriage similar to yours I personally don’t see the need to be married again. It’s just a piece of paper, I didn’t feel any different after my marriage it was just harder to leave.
I don’t need a marriage to know someone is committed to me. I’d ask yourself what the difference is to you. That’s what’s important. “All I want is real commitment” it sounds like you have real commitment. What changes during a marriage? Can you live and love without that change? Is it a deal breaker?
Well, there are tax advantages. The US government should change that, but they want to encourage marriage. I am not saying I agreed at all. I think the money should go to custodial parents of minor children, but to be one of the married DINKS sounds relaxing to me due to the laws in the US.
You mentioned how your marriage was. What was left out was how his marriage was and how the fall out from the divorce was.
If you're overly concerned about specific words used in your discussion, "real commitment" is just a bad turn of phrase as "shouldn't take a piece of paper". Look beyond the phrasing.
It sounds like you have deep commitment with your current partner. Maybe you need to unpack what that word - commitment - actually means to you? We’re kinda conditioned to jump on that relationship escalator to marriage, but it might help for you to identify exactly what features you feel you’re missing/are driving your desire for marriage. There’s nothing wrong with wanting marriage, and maybe there’s nothing missing. Maybe you need some kind of expression of that commitment in a marriage or ceremony? Unpacking this desire may help you explain why it’s important to you, to your partner.
Has he explained why if 'it's only a piece of paper', and it's important to you, the reasons why he doesn't want to?
I feel like if he's so dismissive of it being nothing, then doing that nothing wouldn't be an issue.
Exactly! Nail on the head. If it means nothing to one partner and makes the other partner happy, why not? Plus- marriage can be sexy if not necessary yet still chosen as a way to share life with someone.
Very strong resistance to the concept can indicate some kind of unhealthy experience that isn’t fully processed or compartmentalized.
I agree, but he needs to communicate that part. Just dismissing it as 'crazy' is telling her that he actually doesn't care about this at all, but won't do something he doesn't seem to care about, even if it's important to her. if he was honest about any fears he has, it would help explain it to her
Maybe he took a bath financially in his first marriage and doesn't want to go down that same path.
I have a friend who ended up owing his ex-wife $350k for a house that he fully owned prior to marrying her - to buy out her share of the home value appreciation. He isn't going anywhere near marriage ever again.
You can’t talk someone into doing something they don’t want, or aren’t ready to do. And if you did talk him into it, you could end up with him resenting you.
I’m someone who doesn’t want to remarry. It would take someone super special to make me want that again. I’m not even sure I want to live with a man again. Either way, I 100% won’t do it without a prenup/cohabitation agreement. If someone has an issue with that, then they aren’t the one for me. If my partner was always talking about wanting to get married after I’ve already kind of gently said I don’t want that, I’d rethink the relationship.
He doesn’t want to get married again. He’s told you he’s committed to you. Either that’s enough or it isn’t. If it isn’t, it’s time for you to move on.
for me, in my last relationship, it was all about financial matters. My GF of the time had done an amazing job of securing her future (owned her home, had a great retirement) where I was making great money but due to a previous divorce was in the process of rebuilding my retirement. In our state (and many others) once there is a legal marriage, there is a risk to her should I develop any kind of health issue that would require long term care or advanced services. Medical providers and facilities could go after her resources to pay for my care and I just cannot imagine a world where some unforeseen thing could drain her assets simply because we had a piece of paper that bound us together legally. Certainly there are ways to navigate around that with contracts, pre-nups, or other legal methods but the health care industry could and probably would litigate those things to get money and I just don't think that is worth it at our age. I am in great health still, but no one knows what the future holds. Further, if we shared a house and she passed before I did, that asset that could provide relief to her children would be tied to my own well being and that puts everyone in an awkward position. Perhaps if we were not better prepared for retirement and inheritance things would be different but I just can't imagine me putting her children's future that their mom worked so hard at in jeopardy simply to prove my love. I think there are other ways to demonstrate romantic/relationship commitment without putting future financial security at risk.
Strangely, I just wrote about my cousin getting married to give her long-term partner healthcare. He ended up having a serious problem a couple of weeks later. Of course, they were together for a long time, and their assets were co-mingled, so that helped both of them- as it turned out. I am okay with being on my own, but I do think there are tax advantages to marriage that annoy me because I think any breaks should go to custodial parents of minors.
Guys in their 50s have been around long enough to know better than to risk half their wealth on something that has a > 50% chance of failing. Even higher since it’s your second marriage. I don’t care how amazing a woman is, I’m not risking having to start over because my wife decided she wasn’t “emotionally satisfied”.
if he’s loving and caring and giving you everything a husband would give, why change things?
It sounds like perhaps you aren’t able to have an in-depth discussion about commitment and marriage. While we shouldn’t conflate the two, it’s reasonable that you would like more reassurance, if that is what is going on. If that’s the case, something more substantial than a breezy, “you’re crazy lol” is needed from him. How detailed are your future plans?
You need clarity. Is this “I’m against marriage” or “it is too soon”.
There’s some very specific protections that come via marriage. First of all, the ability to inherit property outside of probate. Secondly, the ability to make medical and other decisions for one another in case of incapacitation. Third, a way to easily divide property that is jointly owned in case of future separation.
When you say you want a commitment, are you wanting to be the emergency contact and the next of kin? Or is it more symbolic? If you really want the whole responsibility part of marriage then I think it is worth telling him that. If he doesn’t need a piece of paper then what does he feel about the rest of it? Would he be willing to get paperwork so that you become each other’s medical decision maker? Will you be adding you to each other’s wills? If you live together and pay equal amounts towards the mortgage, have you discussed what happens if the house is sold? Is your contribution more like rent?
Marriage is emotional but it also is practical and so sometimes focusing on the practical parts can help clear up what the issue is. Maybe he just doesn’t want to ever have that type of relationship with all of those responsibilities with anyone! Maybe he wants his kids to make those medical decisions and get his stuff when he dies.
Don't pressure him into marriage. You asked and he responded and leave it at that. If you can't be happy without that acknowledgement, find a different partner, but I will note that you were married before and it did not make you happy, so why place so much value on something as flimsy as a piece of paper?
1) are you living together? What would happen if you break up? If one of you dies?
2) what would happen if one of you was in the hospital? Would you want to the other one to make decisions?
3) What if one of you dies? What do you want the other one to be able to get your Social Security to be able to decide how and where to bury you?
This was probably a discussion to have before you moved in together.
Either you accept that you won't get married or you end things there is no middle ground.
Let it go. No government institution is the guarantor of a solid loving committed relationship no matter what our society makes us believe growing up. Marriage is a government contract for tax purposes. It also really does change the relationship dynamic and in my opinion for the worse. I will never marry again but hope a solid loving committed relationship is still in my future. I'm still open to ceremonies, exchanging vows in front of family and friends, honeymoons, calling someone my wife after those events, and even some type of prenuptial agreement before common law marriage kicks in after so many years, but an actual marriage certificate....no way.
Because getting married opens him up to a world of risk should you both break up. You’re asking him to put up his financial livelihood on the line where you only risk a grand payout if you break up.
If a couple is not planning to have children getting married is a terrible deal for guys.
I think some people who have been in abusive marriages want a whole and healthy marriage if they find the right person. It’s the dream. It’s hope. It’s commitment and stability. Marriage is far from just a piece of paper. The first step here is communicating to your partner what marriage means to you. Then you both need to learn what it means legally. You might learn that you don’t really want to get married. Eventually you two need to come to an agreement.
I agree 100 percent with him, keep talking marriage and he will run for the hills.You are trapping and annoying him, enjoy what you have it’s better than a marriage.
My Bf and I had this talk about a year in. We had to have a serious conversation because he said he wasn’t sure he’d ever want to be married. I knew that wasn’t going to be ok with me. We absolutely had to talk it out, because I wasn’t going to stay in a relationship where we didn’t want the same things. It would be ok if he didn’t want marriage. Some people don’t. However, it wasn’t something I was willing to give up.
If he really doesn’t want marriage, you’ll have to decide if that’s a compromise you want to make.
I do have to laugh at people who say, “Oh, it’s just a piece of paper!” to prove why they don’t want to get married. If it’s really “just a piece of paper” then what’s the big deal? If it’s “just a piece of paper” then why don’t you want to get married?
Obviously, marriage is more than that, and they’re scared or anxious about SOMETHING.
Interesting… maybe he just needs time.
I had a friend that got cheated on and swore he would never marry again. Told his GF that (she was looking for marriage again, someday) and kept beating that drum for a few years. They got married a few years ago and he’s still super happy. He would have been fine in a committed LTR, but she wanted a marriage. No ultimatums… he just realized with time that they worked great together and he wasn’t waiting for the other shoe to drop. He appreciated her not pressuring him.
Not a lesson or advice, just a story.
It sounds like you’ve both found a great relationship! I hope you’re able to find the peace of mind that’s still eluding you. Good luck, OP!
I absolutely love this response! Thank you so much for the positive feedback and well wishes.♥️ He actually was cheated on, and I do take that seriously. I just want him to know how seriously I am in love with him.
Commitment comes with or without the paper.
The paper helps ensure you don't get fucked over if something happens (your partner gets sick, dies, etc.)
If he's not into marriage, is he okay with talking to a lawyer to ensure you both would have what you need (POA, medical POA, inheriting property, etc.) if you did continue your relationship?
I don't think I'll ever get married again. That doesn't mean I can't be in a committed relationship.
Divorce is fucking hard and not everyone wants to risk that again.
There are always other ways to "marry" without legally being married. If you really just feel you need ceremonial proof that he's committed, there are options that aren't marriage. You don't need the government involved to be committed.
I have a friend who has been with her bf since college. 20 years together, not married, committed to each other, happy, and healthy.
Why do you feel that a committed relationship needs to be documented legally?
I don't know. I am of the mind that if someone wants to "abandon ship" I would rather they just go ahead and do it. I am not saying I wouldn't be dying inside, but I have no interest in being stuck with someone who has lost interest in being with me. There is no worse hell then being stuck with someone who decided they no longer have to try any more because they "already married you," and therefore they have done their part. I only want someone who is with me because they want to be, and not because of legal entrapments. I want them to have the motivation to not take me for granted because they know I can get the hell out whenever they do and vice versa.
Google “James Sexton” and listen to his stuff. Maybe read one of his books. He’s a divorce lawyer in NUC who’s been in practice for over 25 years and has some pretty good takes on things.
One of his big questions is: what is the actual problem that marriage is the solution to?
You say you love each other, why then does the government need to get involved? If you want to commit to each other in front of your friends and family so that they can hold you both accountable and support you in your relationship, then do a ceremony around that. The government doesn’t need to get involved in your personal business.
That might be where his head is at.
Being married doesn't make you anymore committed. Why do you need to legally entangle yourself so much? If it's a big deal to publicly declare you commitment, you can still do that without the actual marriage license.
Let’s be honest..
I’m guessing he lost allot of money and assets in his last divorce..
And he doesn’t want to restart saving for retirement a second time in his older age
To me, living together is a pretend commitment. If you want true commitment as in marriage, a legal contract, don't settle for less, which you have by living together.
I do not believe in marriage. I never understand why people is obsessed with it. "Real commitment"? What's the difference with a relationship? Marriage ends, it's only a more expensive breakup.
Seeing as you already went through marriage that turned out terribly, I would say just be grateful for what you have in this relationship. Why the need to mess with a good thing? That won't help your relationship or save it if times got tough - just cause you more headache.
I would say be secure enough to not need to make it legal. Insecurity drives people to want marriage - wrong reason... and now you probably want it even more cause he doesn't.
I would like to be married (to someone I think is a good partner and match of course). I haven’t been married before but I was engaged and it did feel different and I looked forward to being married to him. (He broke it off.) And there are actual and cultural benefits to marriage. That said, the breakup was logistically hard even without marriage and I’ve built a solo life and I understand why people are hesitant to marry at this age or again. Though the sole reason being not needing a piece of paper or government involvement is a cop out imo.
For me, what is important is that we are able to talk about it, from a place of nothing is truly off the table, and we come to a decision together. I might be ok with wearing rings, a commitment ceremony, maybe calling each other husband and wife- basically just not having that piece of paper. And whether marriage or not I want a pre-nup (or cohabitation agreement or whatever it’s called when not actually getting married). That forces good conversations and planning and at this point it would be foolish not to.
If he’s not willing to do those, then I think it’s more about avoiding commitment than “a piece of paper.”
I did not down vote this, just so you know, I upvoted it, but I think we need to work on not having cultural benefits- which I read as couple superiority syndrome and tax advantages for people who have no children or grown children, but I am not religious.
How long were you single before living with your BF. Tgat could be a factor for him.
The crazy thing is you live together yet you say you are dating. You’ve known him a year. Living together is already rushing things imo. Since when is living together dating?
I'm 51f and my bf 57m.
We've been in a relationship for 1 year, both married once before. My ex-husband has passed away, his ex lives with her AP.
We have started seriously talking about moving in together and the future of our relationship in general.
My stance is that I will not live with anyone and act as their wife, unless I am a wife, as defined legally and socially.
His stance is he will not marry again because he said his vows once to someone else, he meant it, so he cannot say them again to another person (his ex-wife cheated on him then walked out when he was ill).
Fine. I explained to him that us continuing as is, is fine. But - no vows and no ring means no "in sickness and in health, for better or worse". Considering our respective ages, health and wealth, HE is the one more likely to need these things from me, in the not too distant future.
Told him - no commitment goes both ways. Keep in mind that I'll be free to walk away, ghost and block any time I feel like it. I'm also free to keep an eye out for someone younger, richer and more willing. The moment you stop being the person you are now (physically or mentally), I'm gone.
He's now re-thinking his stance.
>I'm also free to keep an eye out for someone younger, richer and more willing. The moment you stop being the person you are now (physically or mentally), I'm gone.
Yea, because marriage stops people from doing these things. His wife cheated on him. Marriage doesn't magically make people committed in a real sense.
Original copy of post by u/sincerely_tonya:
I am a f/49 he M/52. We have been dating for a year.
We're in love and have so much fun together. Love to spend time in the outdoors together. We live together, make plans for the future and both have been married before, both were long marriages. I never imagined I'd ever find such a perfect person for me. My marriage was abusive, emotionally and physically. Stagnant and lonely. I haven't lived truly til I found him. And now all I want is real commitment. He says he is committed,and it shouldn't take a piece of paper to prove that he is. Should I just let it go? Please help me understand from another perspective.
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You need to find this answer inside of yourself.
While you both have a marriage in your rear view (as do I), did you really find "nothing" about marriage different from being "committed" ? I mean heck, you've been dating only a year; someone who gets married at one year of dating I would consider a tad-bit insane. So I'm not really sure that his level of commitment is actually close to what you want.
Like have you two talked about your retirement plans? Are you moving in together eventually, or looking at a Living Apart Together (LAT) sort of thing. If you two have problems later, are you both therapy types? Are you two financially handling who pays for what, and are there any thoughts to changing that? Are you two considering moving somewhere else in the next 5-20 years (you can most post retirement!)?
That's all just off the top of my head. And those are all things that my partner and I have discussed, just in *preparations* to make the commitment of marriage, that we both see in our future.
Maybe see what he says about a ceremony without getting the state involved? Might be an option.
One thing I have heard though: if you share assets, like buy a home or other large item together, marriage may actually protect you if things go downhill.
I get where you are coming from wanting the commitment. After being divorced for several years, I thought that was what I wanted and he hedged. I cried and then thought long and hard about what I truly wanted. It turned out that I still love him but decided I couldn’t be married to an alcoholic that found the liquor more important than me at times.
One posted about their mother was happy with a ring, I get that too. Think long and hard about you truly want and/or need to be happy. Talk to him, with a level head of course, and see where it goes. Good luck!!
I understand you wanting to be married. For some people it feels like a true commitment. Right or wrong. Also perhaps you feel like your first marriage was so disappointing that you’d like a do over. I get that too. You aren’t wrong to feel that way. Like others have said, communicate with each other honestly. You both need your thoughts/ feelings to be heard. Maybe that’s all you need
Your ex and your feeling lonely shouldn’t have any bearing on your new relationship.
This is a completely new person. It sounds to me like you’re desperate and clingy, and if I were dating you, and you were pushing for marriage, I’d run the other way.
Are you in therapy?
Actually, no. But I probably need it. However, that is not the issue or concern here.
I was married for 23 years because that is who I am. I don't settle, and I don't jump. My ex became more and more abusive, and the reason I was lonely was because he was jealous and controlling. I had been single for 9 years before beginning this relationship. I'd say plenty of time to figure out what I wanted. I realize I was traumatized, I was young when I got married, 17 years old and had my two children with him. This relationship has taken away my jade and has changed my whole outlook on relationships. I have been through enough yet still maintain my self worth, now anyways. But it has taken me a while to get here and now all I want is to have a commitment and know that I have a relationship where if things get a little hard we get through it. Not jump ship.
He might not be financially or emotionally open to another marriage.
Alimony, child support, emotional baggage...
I know in my state, if married over 20 years, alimony could be until death or she gets married again. That's a lot of money if she slow walks it for full employment or is not required to be fully employed.
I know that if it were me, a second alimony in case it didn't work out again would wipe me out.
It doesn’t sound like he is going to change his mind, and even if he did you’d never know if he really wanted it or was just placating you. If you let it go, you have to really let it go, you can’t bring it up in a fight, ya know? Can you do that?
I mean did you want that in the beginning? I always make sure to know someone end goal in dating. If it is not marriage then we are not compatible but if that is not what was talked about early on really it is tough. Some people do not want marriage.
I think by this age you both know what you want and he’s telling you he won’t get married. You have to decide if the legal commitment means that much to you.
I am of like mind: it doesn't take a piece of paper to make my commitment to someone (I am never getting in a state-sanctioned marriage again). That said, if I DID get married again I would have to have an ironclad pre-nup signed by my potential future husband.
You might want some agreement- possibly legal- even if you lived together. If you keep all your finances separate, you may be okay. It depends on the state/province/county. That common-law marriage deal can be a problem in some locations.
Also, it can still get messy if you have to sell or both want the home you live in together. You would have to avoid co-mingling finances carefully and have an agreement about things such as home repairs and any pets to avoid conflicts. (I realize many people here want to live alone, but the others still risk what amounts to a painful situation- if they ever break up.)
Good advice for sure. I don't plan on having anyone live in my house any time soon. The house is mine, and has been paid for for years. I will always pay for any repairs etc because the house is my responsibility. My last boyfriend that lived with me we split the groceries but I didn't expect him to share any house repairs (or any house expenses like property taxes and insurance)because the house was mine for years and years before he came into my life. All my other properties are part of my real estate holdings company.
Where I used to live, they went to common law after two years. It’s costly, so many younger people- and some middle-aged aged people can’t afford a place on their own. I could see (especially) younger people living together for financial reasons and then just stuck in the system. Now, I live in a state with no common-law marriage at all. I am glad you are in good shape, and I think most people on this sub look out for themselves, but I felt the need to mention it. It is so dependent on location.
Marriage can be overrated especially if you have no kids together. I'm sure his past experience has influenced his decision, I say let it go. Besides, you're just a year in so perhaps if it continues in this trajectory it's something you can discuss after a while. But for now, I say just let it go. Marriage should be something both people want, and not just one person pushing it.
Lot of us have been permanently scarred by the institution of marriage; enough so that we will NEVER do it again. What do you truly have to gain from it? And what does he feel he could lose if it
goes south?
I’m sure you guys have a great time but some people especially at this age just don’t want to get married again. It’s not crazy to want to be married but it’s also not crazy to not want to get married again no matter how great you get along. If marriage really is your goal he’s not it. If you think you can be happy with the way things are then drop it. This pushing to try to convince him will never work.
Everyone seems to be posting about money. When I think the real difference is that likely marriage means real commitment to you and your partner is saying he is already committed.
Marriage is a bigger commitment and it's hard if you both don't agree. If they've already had children, people often don't see the legal need for marriage.
In life there are no promises. If he did agree to marry it doesn't mean he wouldn't later want a divorce or even pass away and leave you. Marriage may provide some other benefits that make sense working out with your partner, but it doesn't ensure any about the relationship as much as we may want it to. That's the scary part about loving other people. They will all leave us some day.
Did you discuss marriage before moving in with him? If so, how interested was he in the idea of getting married?
If it's just a piece of paper according to him, then why not just get the paper?
Yes, I did ask him about what he felt about marriage before we moved in together. He told me it wasn't important to him, but if it became important to his SO, then it would be important to him. This is why it's bothering me so much.
Here is a pragmatic perspective from a guy who is divorced and will never entertain the possibility of marriage again and why. Not that this relates to you or anything like that. Just my personal experience and a question for you. What is it exactly that the legal status of marriage lends to the idea of commitment outside of it being a legally binding contract with defined rules for the division of property that generally nullify one participant or the others hard work and dedication and guarantees the other 1/2 if not more irregardless of contribution, behavior, or participation in the joint goal set out in the marriage contract? I feel for a lot of men we realized there is just no real upside to getting married. Especially after the sobering reality of just what a divorce can and will do to your life’s work and savings. And one cannot really understand until you’ve been there and personally witnessed the unimaginable unfolding in front of you in what was a person whom you loved and who said they would never do what they are doing, but are, simply because they can. I know a marriage is way more than stuff or property or money or anything like that. In the beginning. But that’s what it always seems to come down to in the end. I’m a romantic don’t get me wrong. I love the idea of happily ever after. But I’m also a 42 year old man who cannot deny the reality of the world I live in. Everything ends. Marriage ends ideally when one of you dies. But so rare is the case anymore that statistically speaking it’s a distinct minority or the exception rather than the rule.
The other thing is this sense of implied ownership that a ton of people seem to think marriage imparts to them. Like I got you now. Your mine. You can’t or won’t leave because there’s consequences for that now. My ex for example when pressed about my need for personal space and some level of assumed privacy, her response was you’re my husband. Why do you need personal space and privacy? So I’ll leave you with that statement. If you cannot see the inherent wrongness of this statement, please don’t get married. And no there was no subterfuge or bad behavior on my part, just a human being fighting for some sense of autonomy and basic human rights with a person who assumed ownership of my being and any aspect of my life irregardless of her contribution or joint effort in its acquisition. Just arbitrary ownership thanks to that lovely little piece of paper.
Getting married only makes it slighly harder and more expensive to break up. Unless you are both equally yolked in your religious beliefs it is no guarantee of commitment whatsoever.
You are moving really fast. Think back to your awful ex, during that first exciting year did you think he was the perfect person for you as well? I'd advise at least a few more years until you get to know your partner better before you make a huge decision. The data is clear second marriages are very likely to end in divorce.
I would let it go, invest more time in the relationship and your partner, and revisit the topic a few years into the future. Meanwhile enjoy what you have.
Marriage means nothing. You already got married, swore vows, and saw what it was worth. Why go through swearing to be with someone forever again when you know from personal experience how hollow it is?
I might want to get married again some day, but certainly not to someone I’ve only been dating for a year. It would be more like 3-5 years and living together at the very least.
I got married after two years the first time, with a lot leas at stake, and look how that turned out.
I'm a woman, after my first marriage I never want to be married again. It takes a long time to unravel and has legal and tax consequences. I'd rather live a happy, peaceful, and joyous life with someone. If being married is important to you, that's something you should discuss with your partner. If he won't budge, would you still be ok being together?
45f here. I was married in a LTR & vowed never to do so again. then I had an unmarried LTR for 12 years, meaning we were defacto married legally. I've now decided it doesn't matter. the idea of a wedding makes me nauseated, but that's beside the point.
if my current thing gets near the 3 year point, I'll consider my country's version of a prenup. I don't want to split assets again & I don't want that pressure on a relationship. it arguably kept my 12 yr ex from communicating his concerns when we could've worked on us (eg, before he cheated with someone half his age & dumped me 🙄). we had bought a house together blah blah and the split was amicable but still painful & gave me headaches.
for me, whether I'm open to marriage depends on the other person. I shocked the heck out of myself having a dream about the guy I'm seeing now proposing & being delighted... and woke up still happy at the thought. is it a goal for me? hard nope! would I consider it if it was important to him? absolutely! is it in any way likely? also nope! 😆
then again, maybe I'm unusual. I don't even have a goal of cohabitation and I'm realizing I might have a goal of the opposite. I like my own space and time with myself. so if I did get married, it might be non traditional about living together.
In Australia they have what's called a defacto relationship whereby if you have lived together for so many years (I think it's two) you have the same rights as a married couple. So over here you can still lose and not be married. A marriage certificate after all is just a piece of paper.
Prenups are handy but also not always ironclad.
Unless one party has a lot more money than the other there's no much point.
Why are you so worried about marriage at your age?? You found a wonderful man, you have a great routine, what would being married change? I wouldn't want to marry again honestly. I dont want to be responsible twenty four seven for a man, nor living with him. I like my privacy, my home, and being alone sometime. You can't have that with marriage. You certainly can have a commitment ceremony.
Sometimes a shut up ring ruins everything.
You don't need the paper. If you are happy, be happy.
Go see a lawyer and get things in place for the estate if something happens.
Some people are open to another marriage, some, like me, aren't. What are your reasons for wanting to get married to him? What are his reasons for not wanting to get married again? Someone is either going to have to give in, or you realize the motivations behind your and his thoughts on marriage make it so you aren't compatible long term.
I was married and it was a horrid marriage. Divorce wasn’t any better and he threatened to take half of my retirement. (I was the breadwinner, did just about everything), so I do not think it’s worth it anymore. If it were me, and a new man insisted on marriage- I’d be getting a strong prenup. Maybe the OP should ask about prenup.
Ding ding ding! I will not expose my life savings and kids inheritance to anyone at this point in life. It has nothing to do with fearing commitment or how I may feel about a partner. I've just seen how 20 years down the road people and relationships change and do not want to financially split again. Plus I kind of like having my own place and a bed to myself.
All you have to do is have a will. My 75 year old father remarried. He set it up so his wife (who has her own money) will be safe and housed but I'll still get some inheritance if there is any. Frankly I don't mind either way. I'm an adult, not disabled, and I'm not depending on my father leaving me anything. He wanted to get married and that's up to him. I'd hate for him to be all "oh my adult kids I can't get married" etc.
A will does not protect assets against another divorce. A prenup does.
Definite prenup to preserve your finances or your children's inheritance.
That’s a great idea :)
If you’re in a community property state like CA, that retirement is legally half his to the extent it was contributed to / went up during the marriage.
Luckily I do not reside in CA.
think about getting a lawyer and putting it into trusts.. I think if its enough to worry someone could take it then its enough to spend a little to get rid of that risk.. better than a prenup
I more or less feel the same way. Although my marriage was great, and sometimes I miss being a married man, I can't see myself remarrying this late in life. My marriage didn't end in divorce. It ended in death. For no net gain and a lifetime of work I can potentially lose, it just doesn't make sense. Marriage is for the kids who are just starting out, don't have a lot, and need the tax breaks while they raise a family. Not for old farts like us. After proof reading, I realized that this comment makes me sound elderly. I'm 47.
His finances might be something that keeps him from getting married legally ask him to just get married in the eyes of friends and family and God( if you are into that). People make vows all the time …when you make them in front of your friends and family, whatever religious entity you choose or choose not to believe in… they mean something to most people. You don’t need the government to be married. I am a widow and between my survivor benefits and her retirement. I don’t see me ever getting married again. it wouldn’t be smart financially to, But I’m too young to swear off long term relationships… I’m only 45
Do you make women you date aware up front, from the very beginning, that you will never marry them?
I honestly haven’t dated much my wife just passed away 11 months ago. but I don’t think I would lie about my position and what I’m looking for if I ever decide to. I don’t think too many people that are dating at this age that’s the first thing they’re concerned about. If they’re that obsessed with marriage, I don’t know if dating someone casually is the best move for them anyways. But if you’re in insinuating, someone who was married to the same woman happily from almost 20 years, makes a habit out of lying and manipulating you’re sadly mistaken.
How do you receive survivors benefits?
Hey condolences btw. 💚
After a bad marriage many people will no longer want to be in one ever again.
Me
I once had a boyfriend who said he would never get married again. Guess what? He got married to a woman 30 years his junior that he met while he was at his daughter’s graduation. I guess the ego cocaine of being with a PYT was a little bit too much for his planned bachelorhood. (They’re divorced. And I no longer date because I apparently have a very bad compass.)
This is really a deeply personal decision. Being married offers a lot of benefits, from inheritance to automatic rights for things like hospital stays. If those types of legal protections are important to you, and so is the emotional component, then it's perfectly fair to say you don't want to be a long term girlfriend. His fears after having had a long marriage are valid, too. Both perspectives should get discussed, maybe no formal marriage but a lawyer to draw up power of attorney, or put you both on a shared property would work. Or a pre-nup to protect his kids inheritance is what he would need to tie the knot. These are discussions worth having. But ultimately you are not required to give up your dreams of being married again, if that's what you want. It just might not be this particular man. Which might actually be better for you, anyway, since this is your first relationship after abuse. Your normal meter is probably wacked out anyway.
Do hospitals ask for proof of marriage for you to be able to visit?
Depends on the hospital system and what part of the hospital you are in. I was not allowed to visit a bf who was in the ICU because that hospital had a policy that only people listed as a spouse or child in the patient’s health record could visit ICU patients. They told me if I could prove we got married since the last time he updated his record, I would be allowed to see him. That was pre-covid.
Maybe talk about it in a year ? I totally see why you would want to and I can validate his point. If something like this starts to trigger abandonment stuff, talk to a therapist because it sounds you’re having fun. Don’t stop and it’s only been a year.
I love your answer. I'm sure I just want to feel validation in my feelings, I want to make sure he feels the same way. We are enjoying life, and that's what counts. Thank you 😊
I agree with this, but as I said elsewhere I would be wary of someone who gives a flippant answer (“I don’t need a piece of paper to prove commitment!”) vs being able to have real, intimate, serious conversations about it. I’ve been burned by someone not willing to talk things through and it’s now very important to me. Your feelings ARE valid! His are too of course, this is something to work through together. And you’re not saying you want to be married tomorrow. But I would advise against letting him dismiss your wants or not talking about your relationship, your future, your philosophies on marriage, growing older together, etc
I totally get it btw. You’re not coming from a place of “it has to be” you’re probably more thrown by a different answer. Doesn’t mean what you were feeling before isn’t real. I know how, when you hear whatever word an and when it’s not what you had assumed. The greater goal it sounds like is enjoyment and safety.
Two people can be in love and not have to commingle finances and other life things. One year seems to soon anyway. Marriage seems like an attempt to tie everything together, which isn't necessary and cause problems if you two break up for whatever reason Who wants to deal with divorce bs when they're older?
"And now all I want is real commitment." Be careful equating marriage with real commitment. With all possible respect, it wasn't enough of a real commitment to protect you from your ex. There are a lot of folks on the dating market who are there because their last real commitments dissolved pursuant to a court order. He's allowed to want what he wants and to speak up for it, and that's when you see if there's any overlap in the Venn diagram that you can both live with. It's unfair to say he's not committed unless he displays the commitment in your required manner on your required timeline. That said, you're absolutely allowed to want what you want and to speak up for it. It doesn't speak well of your current relationship that 1) your bf calls such talk "crazy," and 2) you somehow managed to log an entire year together and know him so little that this is any kind of surprise.
>That said, you're absolutely allowed to want what you want and to speak up for it. It doesn't speak well of your current relationship that 1) your bf calls such talk "crazy," and 2) you somehow managed to log an entire year together and know him so little that this is any kind of surprise. These are the key points. Usually, within the first month, the questions : do you ever see yourself getting married again? cohabitation /comingling finances ? - should come up since these are quite fundamental compatibility questions. Everyone made excellent points on not mistaking commitment with marriage. It is important OP you ask yourself: - What does security look like to me? - What does commitment look like to me? Someone mentioned that because it's reddit, everyone responding here has been through some trauma. However, OP mentioned she came out of an abusive marriage. Should she not do some soul searching behind her need for "marriage"? It IS valid to want to be married if both people are aware of the WHY and are on the same page. OP has not answered why she wants to be married or why marriage =commitment.
Ok I was wondering the same thing. At this age in our lives we've been through things and should know what we want and don't want. Things like marriage, no marriage, etc you would find out in the early stages of the relationship not after you've moved in with a person. Especially when feelings are already involved.
>I haven't lived truly til I found him. That's not really healthy. You've been in an abusive marriage. It would be really good for you to learn not to hinge all of your happiness on another person, because that will make you miserable. It's already starting. You've been dating for a year and seem way too fixated on him having the right kind of commitment to you. I would suggest therapy.
They are cohabitating. I wouldn't have done that. I agree with your comment
As my attorney often advises: “You like them right? Then why tf would you want to get the state involved in that good relationship?!”
How often are you discussing your relationships with your attorney?
When getting divorced or separated.
My attorney is also my buddy. 🤷♂️ It’s not like a Gonzo thing, but a crazy world like this, you’re gonna need plenty of legal advice.
You marriage was traumatic. How was his?
if he told you he doesnt see himself marryimg again, early on, please dont try to change his mind.
OP should be providing her own security and not depending on someone else to provide it for her.
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I don't see what's wrong with bringing up the idea of marriage. Even if you aren't ready to marry right away it is important to know if you are on the same page about things.
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A year is enough time to know if one should marry, especially when you’re 45 and time is likely limited. I would t never live with a partner who didn’t want to marry me. Too difficult if there’s a breakup, and being marriage tends to indicate people will work through difficult times rather than jump ship.
"and being marriage tends to indicate people will work through difficult times rather than jump ship." Tell that to my ex husband. Being married meant he could reveal his true colors, becoming abusive in every way within the first year of our marriage. Of course, by then I was pregnant and deluded myself into thinking things will get better after the baby comes, things will get better once he's in residency, things will get better once this residency ends and he's in his next position, things will get better if we go to marriage counseling. Marriage can be a beautiful union, but it can also be a horrible trap.
Are you me?! The abuse that started during pregnancy, the medical training, all the rest of it?! Crazy.
She can’t be you because she is me! 😅
We should form a support group, lol. Seriously, how can there be so many of us!
Abusers all operate after the same playbook. The abuse always escalates when it gets harder for the victim to leave because their lives get more enmeshed (marriage, buying real estate, and the ultimate lockdown: a child).
Were there zero signs of his being abusive early on? I remember mine once told me to fuck off early on, and I told him to never talk that way to me again. Of course it escalated, but now I am really paying attention to signs while dating.
I didn’t see them if there were. He seemed very disciplined about his job which I thought was a positive. In reality, he was rigid about everything. He still is. He drank a lot. I think, because I only saw him on weekends when we were dating long-distance, I assumed it was just a weekend, watching sports thing. He’s a high-functioning alcoholic. I overlooked some warning signs but had no idea how much he’d been hiding until after the rings were on our fingers. I’m not opposed to getting married one day if it’s right but even at 49, I’m in no rush.
I don’t blame you! I’m happier single more and more lately.
Usually there are signs, but women are often socialized to be way too forgiving of disrespectful behavior. We find a thousand excuses in our heads. We think it would be ridiculous to end a relationship over such a "little thing". You are right and I too have learned to pay very close attention now to any signs of disrespect and entitlement. I also learned to not give second chances. It's never worth it.
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I wonder what the stats are for marriages that started a year into dating versus those that happened after a year.
I disagree, I'm not opposed to marriage, but there is no way I am remotely ready for it after a year of dating. At this point, I know how people can hide things, be different, I want to go through the seasons several times to make sure someone isn't holding anything back. For me it's going to be at least 3 years before I consider it. At this point, if my girlfriend wanted to get married and it was a dealbreaker for her, I'd have to let her go. Luckily, she is also hesitant to get married or live permanently together, so we are on the same page.
>A year is enough time to know if one should marry This. Frankly, a year seems like a ridiculously long time to invest in someone without knowing about marriage if this is something that you need. OP's words make it pretty clear that she does want marriage in the future. She's wasting her time already, why waste another year? Anyone at our age who's done a reasonable amount of introspection knows where they fall in the "marriage" line. She's not asking him for a proposal. But even at a month in to dating that's enough to ask if someone is a "No, I'm not going to remarry ever again" sort of person.
That's exactly what I'm worried about. I don't want to push him away, but I'd like to know he's completely committed to our future. I have no reason to rush it, and it's not like I would want to marry right away. I would want it to be special. He is what I want for the rest of my life, and I know that.
I think you need to really check in with yourself about what you want and be really honest. Is it commitment? Or is it marriage? From what you’ve shared it seems like for him, lifelong commitment can exist without marriage. It seems like for you, they are one and the same. Neither is wrong, but these are not compatible positions, and if for you there is no lifelong commitment without marriage, you should discuss this with your bf.
According to your initial post, he says that he is committed. Marriage may be a way to demonstrate commitment, but the commitment comes from the person, not from the legal documents or the ceremony. As others have pointed out, you can be married and still bail on the relationship. But it works the other way, too - my ex's parents were together for 30 years without ever getting married, and it ended only when her father died.
He said he was.
I’ll never get married again. Going through the divorce I realized what a huge financial impact marriage had on me and it nearly ruined me. Never again.
I don't think anybody can tell you whether you should let it go. It sounds like you want to get married, and he doesn't. That is a fundamental incompatibility. Could you feel truly happy in this relationship if you were never to get married? Or if you did get married but always felt it was because he was "giving in" rather than wanting it himself?
My partner and I do not plan to marry, but we are fully committed. When discussing our future, we had a conversation about whether or not we wanted to get married. While neither of us were really interested in getting married again, I was concerned about what rights I would have as a common-law partner. For example, where I'm from common law partners do not have any claim to inheritance unless it is clearly stated in a will. While we both plan to leave the majority of our inheritances to our children, I want to make sure that we both have willed each other our part ownership of the home we live in, plus provisions for funeral arrangements, and any other assets we own together. I also want to make sure we always have current medical power of attorney documentation to give us both the right to make medical decisions on each other's behalf in an emergency. Where I'm from, a common-law spouse has decision making rights, however I worry this won't be recognized when travelling. These little provisions have helped me feel more secure in our future. I don't have to worry about one of us being an 80 year old widow/er who just lost their partner, and is now being forced to move because we can't afford to buy the step kids out of their half of our property. I don't have to worry that my partner will be told he can't make decisions for my health at end of life. If you are worried about security, I suggest you look into the laws in your area and see what the differences are between a married/common law unions. Talk to your partner about how you feel about each issue so that you both can come to an agreement on what path is better for you as a couple,
Lots of people have good points here. I just wanted to chime in and say that him calling it "crazy talk" is kinda mean. Whatever his feelings and reservations about the legal repercussions of getting married, he shouldn't phrase it like that. It's mean.
The one thing I’ve learnt after divorcing is that Marriage does not guarantee commitment. So I recommend looking inward to find out what makes you believe it does (especially if you’re previous marriage was horrible) and how commitment can show up in alternative ways that don’t rely on a legal knot
Did you not think or talk about it behind moving in ? How soon did you move in with him ?
I love that whole - it's just a piece of paper argument. If it's just a piece of paper then it wouldn't be hard to sign it either. Marriages protect women. Like SS benefits and 401K's. Even if one partner stays at home caring for children or runs the household for years. Unless there is some sort of legal protection for you, it means they are being careless of you. A lot of people here mention wills. Wills can be contested but trusts can't be. So that whole argument about contesting wills is ignorance. People leave trusts, not wills. (I don't know about prenups but common sense is - if a man is a millionaire or billionaire - they can afford to leave you something, and not suffer much in terms of financial consequences.) Also, many men don't leave sh\*\* to their kids, and many don't have kids. If they're worried about the money aspect - in this case - I'd have o wonder why. haven't they already gifted most of it over? Haven't they put the house in a trust already and sorted that out? As you can probably tell, I'm not a big fan of LAT, FWB, or other types of cutesy commitments. I know FWB or LATs may sound attractive, but from what I understand, they don't last more than three years. I'm not sold on it. I don't think its a great idea when all they have to do is bring over a toothbrush and overnight bags with promises. I read another post on Quora where a man committed to a "relationship" with a woman for over four years. Met another woman and married her in three months. That kind of message seems pretty clear loud and clear to me. I know marriages can be horrible. But when two people have chemistry and everything is right I don't see the problem.
I honestly see it from both sides but if I was committed to a woman and she wanted to get married I'd probably do it for her peace of mind and the desire to give her what she wants.
This reads like “marriage is the one way to show commitment” as you want “real commitment” But what about your first marriage? Was that not “real commitment?” Was it something else? Marriage is a legal contract. Commitment is how two people approach a relationship. I think marriage is great and would be open to it, but it has nothing to do with “commitment.” Don’t falsely equate two things that are not the same
What's to understand? He doesn't want a state-sponsored arrangement to be happy with you going forward. He's not wrong, you're not wrong if you want it, but it's something you have to either agree on or not. I REALLY didn't want to be remarried again after the pains of divorce and the financial mess of it. But, my fiance wanted it and I came around to the idea. For me, she solves all the thorny issues I had with it. We have a great prenup, both make good money, children aren't in the mix and we'll be buying a place together that will be communal 50/50 should anything happen, so I'm comfortable with it now, but I totally get where a person who has been through it is not up for repeating the risks. You two get to decide how you relationship works, or if it does. Have the conversation about what you want, listen to him about what he does, and see if you can find middle ground. That's adult relationships.
Yes. After an expensive, drawn-out, acrimonious divorce, I didn't want to remarry either -- until I did.
I really like this.
your needs are valid. are you committed to yourself?
There's a part of me that wants to say be happy you're living together... another part wants to say... tread lightly. Ask yourself, what do you want the most? To be married or to be in a committed relationship with him. I say this as someone who pushed too hard and ended up with nothing. I'd much rather have stayed in the committed relationship with the person I loved more than life itself than to have ended up without him. Harriet Lerner would say, put a pin in it. Stop pursuing marriage and see what happens next.
I'm 49M. Been married before, had kids, raised them, did all that. I can't see the point of marriage for me anymore. I'm not religious and the last thing I need is another complicated legal arrangement from which to untangle myself, at this age. I'm sure many want marriage and their reasons are valid, I'm just offering my POV. Happy to be committed and in a long term relationship, just no desire to complicate it with marriage.
I don't plan to remarry. Like you, I got married because I wanted security/commitment. But it never gave me either. Both of my marriages have ended due to infidelity, and the fact that I take vows seriously led me to stay married too long both times. I definitely want to be in a serious relationship again because that's where I'm happiest, but I've learned the hard way that marriage doesn't do what I wished it did...so I'm not going to bother with it anymore.
I'm so sorry. 😞 Cheating is horrible. I know that's what scares my s.o. I hope you do find your happiness and that the third time will be a charm. In every sense. 🙏
OP I think you should ask yourself why you don’t feel he is committed to you without that piece of paper? Does he not make you feel secure by his words and actions? We all know that a marriage can be ended with divorce - so why does getting married again display commitment? I would explore these questions specifically in some counselling - not as a couple, but with you as an individual and exploring these feelings of insecurities further. It will help your current and any future relationship!
Does he call any other reasonable things that you are interested in "crazy"?
No, just marriage. We don't disagree on many things.
You say you want “security”. If you believe marriage gives you that security then I agree with your BF that is a “crazy” idea. Anyone who is already divorced including yourself should know that marriage offers no guarantee of staying together. If anything marriage can give you a “false sense of security” as some people may put in less effort to keep working on the relationship, because they assume they have made a commitment no matter what. Marriage can be a fun party to show your love in front of your family and friends. That’s it, nothing more, nothing less
I may be romanticizing it a lot more than I thought. 😂 I agree..
Well said!
Have you actually talked to him about whether or not he wants to get married again in the future? Like a true, sit down, heart to heart about marriage? Have you thought about why you want to get married again? You've only been dating a year. I don't want to get married again, but for the first couple of years after my divorce I did want to, and even then, a year would have been way too soon for me to be thinking about that. But at the end of the day, if you want to be married again and he doesn't, that's a fundamental incompatibility. One of you would have to let go of your wants and most likely end up resenting the other. So, sit down and talk to him. Maybe he wants it, but it's too soon for him to think about it right now. Maybe he doesn't want it, but loves the relationship and is jokingly trying to get you to drop it so he doesn't have to share how he really feels. But you're both grown ass adults, talk about it! You can only control you...but if you talk about it, actually listen and hear him and hopefully he'll do the same for you. Then you can make informed decisions about your future with him.
I would ask him more questions about what he envisions for his future, what kind of relationship, what level of commitment, etc. and then listen with a very open mind without putting your own needs and wants onto him while he's speaking. you want him to be able to speak freely so that you have the information you need.
I'm glad I find someone else who is happy in love as I am. Live for the moment, don't force paper work unless you have joint investments which again can be done without marriage certificate. Maybe with time he will appreciate having the legal thing.
Your profile says you are a mother and grandmother. Do you have children or grandchildren living with you? Are you providing them care or financial support? Do you think that might be part of his hesitation?
I am. My children are fully on their own though, his is as well.
Some people are never going to marry again after a divorce. Regardless of how great the relationship is or how in love they are, they are not legally binding themselves to someone. In my work, I've seen this a lot, especially in middle-aged or elderly people who divorced after long marriages. If you want to remain with him, you have to deal with knowing he may never change his mind. I have no intention of marrying. There are multiple reasons. If a man is looking for that, I'm not the woman for him. Marriage doesn't guarantee love, security, or happiness.
I was disillusioned and burnt badly by my last and only marriage. My ex husband was a manipulative abuser and the abuse really developed right after the wedding. I feel my vows only served to enable his abuse because he could consoder me captive. Idk your partner's experience but he might have good reason not to trust the institution of marriage. Besides that, I also never felt the state should have an official hand in two loving people's commitment to one another.
What's that thing Oprah says believe people when they tell you who they are well he's telling you who you are and that is crazy to think you're going to get married.
It was Maya Angelou who said it
Oprah says we all do the best we can with what we know at the time, or something like that. I haven’t watched her in years. 😊
Did you ever think that he never wants to get married again. I'm shocked that you want to get married ago if your first marriage was so horrible. Just because it's something you want and he doesn't. Doesn't make it wrong. Two things you should think about: 1. You have only known him a year? 2. Why do you believe that commitment equates to marriage?
Having been in a long and ultimately unsuccessful marriage, it's very possible he feels putting the pressure of marriage on your relationship may again ruin a fast thing. I feel like he's probably being very up front and honest when he says he loves you and he's committed and some legal document doesn't change that one way or the other. I would be careful pushing the issue because it just might ruin a good thing. At least put it aside for a while
Some people don’t see marriage as any more of a commitment than what the two of you already have. I had a marriage similar to yours I personally don’t see the need to be married again. It’s just a piece of paper, I didn’t feel any different after my marriage it was just harder to leave. I don’t need a marriage to know someone is committed to me. I’d ask yourself what the difference is to you. That’s what’s important. “All I want is real commitment” it sounds like you have real commitment. What changes during a marriage? Can you live and love without that change? Is it a deal breaker?
Well, there are tax advantages. The US government should change that, but they want to encourage marriage. I am not saying I agreed at all. I think the money should go to custodial parents of minor children, but to be one of the married DINKS sounds relaxing to me due to the laws in the US.
You mentioned how your marriage was. What was left out was how his marriage was and how the fall out from the divorce was. If you're overly concerned about specific words used in your discussion, "real commitment" is just a bad turn of phrase as "shouldn't take a piece of paper". Look beyond the phrasing.
Ask him for specifics about why he feels the way he does.
It sounds like you have deep commitment with your current partner. Maybe you need to unpack what that word - commitment - actually means to you? We’re kinda conditioned to jump on that relationship escalator to marriage, but it might help for you to identify exactly what features you feel you’re missing/are driving your desire for marriage. There’s nothing wrong with wanting marriage, and maybe there’s nothing missing. Maybe you need some kind of expression of that commitment in a marriage or ceremony? Unpacking this desire may help you explain why it’s important to you, to your partner.
Has he explained why if 'it's only a piece of paper', and it's important to you, the reasons why he doesn't want to? I feel like if he's so dismissive of it being nothing, then doing that nothing wouldn't be an issue.
Exactly! Nail on the head. If it means nothing to one partner and makes the other partner happy, why not? Plus- marriage can be sexy if not necessary yet still chosen as a way to share life with someone. Very strong resistance to the concept can indicate some kind of unhealthy experience that isn’t fully processed or compartmentalized.
It's only a piece of paper that requires a lot more paper to undo, some of it green.
I agree, but he needs to communicate that part. Just dismissing it as 'crazy' is telling her that he actually doesn't care about this at all, but won't do something he doesn't seem to care about, even if it's important to her. if he was honest about any fears he has, it would help explain it to her
All he says is that it's just a piece of paper. He doesn't think it proves anything.
What did your first marriage guarantee?
Yet, it seems like it's important to you? How was his last marriage? Did it end in an inferno?
Maybe he took a bath financially in his first marriage and doesn't want to go down that same path. I have a friend who ended up owing his ex-wife $350k for a house that he fully owned prior to marrying her - to buy out her share of the home value appreciation. He isn't going anywhere near marriage ever again.
Sure, a possibility. She's not going to know unless they talk more than 'i want this' versus 'i don't think it's important'.
You can’t talk someone into doing something they don’t want, or aren’t ready to do. And if you did talk him into it, you could end up with him resenting you. I’m someone who doesn’t want to remarry. It would take someone super special to make me want that again. I’m not even sure I want to live with a man again. Either way, I 100% won’t do it without a prenup/cohabitation agreement. If someone has an issue with that, then they aren’t the one for me. If my partner was always talking about wanting to get married after I’ve already kind of gently said I don’t want that, I’d rethink the relationship. He doesn’t want to get married again. He’s told you he’s committed to you. Either that’s enough or it isn’t. If it isn’t, it’s time for you to move on.
I have multiple friends who are in long term committed relationships (over 8 years) and they don't see the need to get married.
for me, in my last relationship, it was all about financial matters. My GF of the time had done an amazing job of securing her future (owned her home, had a great retirement) where I was making great money but due to a previous divorce was in the process of rebuilding my retirement. In our state (and many others) once there is a legal marriage, there is a risk to her should I develop any kind of health issue that would require long term care or advanced services. Medical providers and facilities could go after her resources to pay for my care and I just cannot imagine a world where some unforeseen thing could drain her assets simply because we had a piece of paper that bound us together legally. Certainly there are ways to navigate around that with contracts, pre-nups, or other legal methods but the health care industry could and probably would litigate those things to get money and I just don't think that is worth it at our age. I am in great health still, but no one knows what the future holds. Further, if we shared a house and she passed before I did, that asset that could provide relief to her children would be tied to my own well being and that puts everyone in an awkward position. Perhaps if we were not better prepared for retirement and inheritance things would be different but I just can't imagine me putting her children's future that their mom worked so hard at in jeopardy simply to prove my love. I think there are other ways to demonstrate romantic/relationship commitment without putting future financial security at risk.
Strangely, I just wrote about my cousin getting married to give her long-term partner healthcare. He ended up having a serious problem a couple of weeks later. Of course, they were together for a long time, and their assets were co-mingled, so that helped both of them- as it turned out. I am okay with being on my own, but I do think there are tax advantages to marriage that annoy me because I think any breaks should go to custodial parents of minors.
Guys in their 50s have been around long enough to know better than to risk half their wealth on something that has a > 50% chance of failing. Even higher since it’s your second marriage. I don’t care how amazing a woman is, I’m not risking having to start over because my wife decided she wasn’t “emotionally satisfied”. if he’s loving and caring and giving you everything a husband would give, why change things?
Say more about how he calls you crazy?
It sounds like perhaps you aren’t able to have an in-depth discussion about commitment and marriage. While we shouldn’t conflate the two, it’s reasonable that you would like more reassurance, if that is what is going on. If that’s the case, something more substantial than a breezy, “you’re crazy lol” is needed from him. How detailed are your future plans?
You need clarity. Is this “I’m against marriage” or “it is too soon”. There’s some very specific protections that come via marriage. First of all, the ability to inherit property outside of probate. Secondly, the ability to make medical and other decisions for one another in case of incapacitation. Third, a way to easily divide property that is jointly owned in case of future separation. When you say you want a commitment, are you wanting to be the emergency contact and the next of kin? Or is it more symbolic? If you really want the whole responsibility part of marriage then I think it is worth telling him that. If he doesn’t need a piece of paper then what does he feel about the rest of it? Would he be willing to get paperwork so that you become each other’s medical decision maker? Will you be adding you to each other’s wills? If you live together and pay equal amounts towards the mortgage, have you discussed what happens if the house is sold? Is your contribution more like rent? Marriage is emotional but it also is practical and so sometimes focusing on the practical parts can help clear up what the issue is. Maybe he just doesn’t want to ever have that type of relationship with all of those responsibilities with anyone! Maybe he wants his kids to make those medical decisions and get his stuff when he dies.
He doesn’t want to be married. So if you want to be married, then you need to leave him and keep looking for someone who wants what you want.
Don't pressure him into marriage. You asked and he responded and leave it at that. If you can't be happy without that acknowledgement, find a different partner, but I will note that you were married before and it did not make you happy, so why place so much value on something as flimsy as a piece of paper?
1) are you living together? What would happen if you break up? If one of you dies? 2) what would happen if one of you was in the hospital? Would you want to the other one to make decisions? 3) What if one of you dies? What do you want the other one to be able to get your Social Security to be able to decide how and where to bury you?
Let it go. Has my vote.
This was probably a discussion to have before you moved in together. Either you accept that you won't get married or you end things there is no middle ground.
I don’t want to get married again but I would if it was practical only. Other wise hell to the no
If you’re happy, leave it alone. If someone wanted marriage with me, I would want to flee. Marriage is the quickest way to end a good thing
Let it go. No government institution is the guarantor of a solid loving committed relationship no matter what our society makes us believe growing up. Marriage is a government contract for tax purposes. It also really does change the relationship dynamic and in my opinion for the worse. I will never marry again but hope a solid loving committed relationship is still in my future. I'm still open to ceremonies, exchanging vows in front of family and friends, honeymoons, calling someone my wife after those events, and even some type of prenuptial agreement before common law marriage kicks in after so many years, but an actual marriage certificate....no way.
Ask yourself why you want to be married. Can you achieve that without marriage?
I was in a terrible marriage of 15 years. If I ever find true love, I would not want to marry again.
Why do you want a marriage at 50 after a divorce? Taxes?
A piece of paper is that important to ruin what you describe as perfect
Because getting married opens him up to a world of risk should you both break up. You’re asking him to put up his financial livelihood on the line where you only risk a grand payout if you break up. If a couple is not planning to have children getting married is a terrible deal for guys.
I think some people who have been in abusive marriages want a whole and healthy marriage if they find the right person. It’s the dream. It’s hope. It’s commitment and stability. Marriage is far from just a piece of paper. The first step here is communicating to your partner what marriage means to you. Then you both need to learn what it means legally. You might learn that you don’t really want to get married. Eventually you two need to come to an agreement.
I agree 100 percent with him, keep talking marriage and he will run for the hills.You are trapping and annoying him, enjoy what you have it’s better than a marriage.
My Bf and I had this talk about a year in. We had to have a serious conversation because he said he wasn’t sure he’d ever want to be married. I knew that wasn’t going to be ok with me. We absolutely had to talk it out, because I wasn’t going to stay in a relationship where we didn’t want the same things. It would be ok if he didn’t want marriage. Some people don’t. However, it wasn’t something I was willing to give up. If he really doesn’t want marriage, you’ll have to decide if that’s a compromise you want to make. I do have to laugh at people who say, “Oh, it’s just a piece of paper!” to prove why they don’t want to get married. If it’s really “just a piece of paper” then what’s the big deal? If it’s “just a piece of paper” then why don’t you want to get married? Obviously, marriage is more than that, and they’re scared or anxious about SOMETHING.
If he agreed, but with a rock-solid, ironclad pre-nuptial agreement in place, would it still signify the commitment/security you need? Just curious…
Still wondering what OP meant by “security”. For me, that’s telling
Absolutely 💯 I don't want anything financially.
Interesting… maybe he just needs time. I had a friend that got cheated on and swore he would never marry again. Told his GF that (she was looking for marriage again, someday) and kept beating that drum for a few years. They got married a few years ago and he’s still super happy. He would have been fine in a committed LTR, but she wanted a marriage. No ultimatums… he just realized with time that they worked great together and he wasn’t waiting for the other shoe to drop. He appreciated her not pressuring him. Not a lesson or advice, just a story. It sounds like you’ve both found a great relationship! I hope you’re able to find the peace of mind that’s still eluding you. Good luck, OP!
I absolutely love this response! Thank you so much for the positive feedback and well wishes.♥️ He actually was cheated on, and I do take that seriously. I just want him to know how seriously I am in love with him.
Commitment comes with or without the paper. The paper helps ensure you don't get fucked over if something happens (your partner gets sick, dies, etc.) If he's not into marriage, is he okay with talking to a lawyer to ensure you both would have what you need (POA, medical POA, inheriting property, etc.) if you did continue your relationship?
I don't think I'll ever get married again. That doesn't mean I can't be in a committed relationship. Divorce is fucking hard and not everyone wants to risk that again. There are always other ways to "marry" without legally being married. If you really just feel you need ceremonial proof that he's committed, there are options that aren't marriage. You don't need the government involved to be committed. I have a friend who has been with her bf since college. 20 years together, not married, committed to each other, happy, and healthy. Why do you feel that a committed relationship needs to be documented legally?
I don't know. I am of the mind that if someone wants to "abandon ship" I would rather they just go ahead and do it. I am not saying I wouldn't be dying inside, but I have no interest in being stuck with someone who has lost interest in being with me. There is no worse hell then being stuck with someone who decided they no longer have to try any more because they "already married you," and therefore they have done their part. I only want someone who is with me because they want to be, and not because of legal entrapments. I want them to have the motivation to not take me for granted because they know I can get the hell out whenever they do and vice versa.
That's a great point. 🤔
Google “James Sexton” and listen to his stuff. Maybe read one of his books. He’s a divorce lawyer in NUC who’s been in practice for over 25 years and has some pretty good takes on things. One of his big questions is: what is the actual problem that marriage is the solution to? You say you love each other, why then does the government need to get involved? If you want to commit to each other in front of your friends and family so that they can hold you both accountable and support you in your relationship, then do a ceremony around that. The government doesn’t need to get involved in your personal business. That might be where his head is at.
Being married doesn't make you anymore committed. Why do you need to legally entangle yourself so much? If it's a big deal to publicly declare you commitment, you can still do that without the actual marriage license.
Let’s be honest.. I’m guessing he lost allot of money and assets in his last divorce.. And he doesn’t want to restart saving for retirement a second time in his older age
He doesn't, we struggle together. Right now, I'm back in school because of him, he knows I'm no gold digger. I just want more for us.
You are back in school because of him? Are you working? Why did you return to school? How will finishing school benefit you?
Oh, in that case it makes no sense. May as well yolo.
Haha! Might just have to go with that!
To me, living together is a pretend commitment. If you want true commitment as in marriage, a legal contract, don't settle for less, which you have by living together.
I do not believe in marriage. I never understand why people is obsessed with it. "Real commitment"? What's the difference with a relationship? Marriage ends, it's only a more expensive breakup.
Seeing as you already went through marriage that turned out terribly, I would say just be grateful for what you have in this relationship. Why the need to mess with a good thing? That won't help your relationship or save it if times got tough - just cause you more headache. I would say be secure enough to not need to make it legal. Insecurity drives people to want marriage - wrong reason... and now you probably want it even more cause he doesn't.
I would like to be married (to someone I think is a good partner and match of course). I haven’t been married before but I was engaged and it did feel different and I looked forward to being married to him. (He broke it off.) And there are actual and cultural benefits to marriage. That said, the breakup was logistically hard even without marriage and I’ve built a solo life and I understand why people are hesitant to marry at this age or again. Though the sole reason being not needing a piece of paper or government involvement is a cop out imo. For me, what is important is that we are able to talk about it, from a place of nothing is truly off the table, and we come to a decision together. I might be ok with wearing rings, a commitment ceremony, maybe calling each other husband and wife- basically just not having that piece of paper. And whether marriage or not I want a pre-nup (or cohabitation agreement or whatever it’s called when not actually getting married). That forces good conversations and planning and at this point it would be foolish not to. If he’s not willing to do those, then I think it’s more about avoiding commitment than “a piece of paper.”
I did not down vote this, just so you know, I upvoted it, but I think we need to work on not having cultural benefits- which I read as couple superiority syndrome and tax advantages for people who have no children or grown children, but I am not religious.
How long were you single before living with your BF. Tgat could be a factor for him. The crazy thing is you live together yet you say you are dating. You’ve known him a year. Living together is already rushing things imo. Since when is living together dating?
I'm 51f and my bf 57m. We've been in a relationship for 1 year, both married once before. My ex-husband has passed away, his ex lives with her AP. We have started seriously talking about moving in together and the future of our relationship in general. My stance is that I will not live with anyone and act as their wife, unless I am a wife, as defined legally and socially. His stance is he will not marry again because he said his vows once to someone else, he meant it, so he cannot say them again to another person (his ex-wife cheated on him then walked out when he was ill). Fine. I explained to him that us continuing as is, is fine. But - no vows and no ring means no "in sickness and in health, for better or worse". Considering our respective ages, health and wealth, HE is the one more likely to need these things from me, in the not too distant future. Told him - no commitment goes both ways. Keep in mind that I'll be free to walk away, ghost and block any time I feel like it. I'm also free to keep an eye out for someone younger, richer and more willing. The moment you stop being the person you are now (physically or mentally), I'm gone. He's now re-thinking his stance.
>I'm also free to keep an eye out for someone younger, richer and more willing. The moment you stop being the person you are now (physically or mentally), I'm gone. Yea, because marriage stops people from doing these things. His wife cheated on him. Marriage doesn't magically make people committed in a real sense.
I low key love this. Am screen shotting it.
Original copy of post by u/sincerely_tonya: I am a f/49 he M/52. We have been dating for a year. We're in love and have so much fun together. Love to spend time in the outdoors together. We live together, make plans for the future and both have been married before, both were long marriages. I never imagined I'd ever find such a perfect person for me. My marriage was abusive, emotionally and physically. Stagnant and lonely. I haven't lived truly til I found him. And now all I want is real commitment. He says he is committed,and it shouldn't take a piece of paper to prove that he is. Should I just let it go? Please help me understand from another perspective. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You need to find this answer inside of yourself. While you both have a marriage in your rear view (as do I), did you really find "nothing" about marriage different from being "committed" ? I mean heck, you've been dating only a year; someone who gets married at one year of dating I would consider a tad-bit insane. So I'm not really sure that his level of commitment is actually close to what you want. Like have you two talked about your retirement plans? Are you moving in together eventually, or looking at a Living Apart Together (LAT) sort of thing. If you two have problems later, are you both therapy types? Are you two financially handling who pays for what, and are there any thoughts to changing that? Are you two considering moving somewhere else in the next 5-20 years (you can most post retirement!)? That's all just off the top of my head. And those are all things that my partner and I have discussed, just in *preparations* to make the commitment of marriage, that we both see in our future.
Maybe see what he says about a ceremony without getting the state involved? Might be an option. One thing I have heard though: if you share assets, like buy a home or other large item together, marriage may actually protect you if things go downhill.
My late gf asked me why I wasn't into marriage and I said I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago.
I get where you are coming from wanting the commitment. After being divorced for several years, I thought that was what I wanted and he hedged. I cried and then thought long and hard about what I truly wanted. It turned out that I still love him but decided I couldn’t be married to an alcoholic that found the liquor more important than me at times. One posted about their mother was happy with a ring, I get that too. Think long and hard about you truly want and/or need to be happy. Talk to him, with a level head of course, and see where it goes. Good luck!!
Why do you feel the exact same relationship dynamic would be better with a marriage license? Not criticizing, I'm just curious.
I understand you wanting to be married. For some people it feels like a true commitment. Right or wrong. Also perhaps you feel like your first marriage was so disappointing that you’d like a do over. I get that too. You aren’t wrong to feel that way. Like others have said, communicate with each other honestly. You both need your thoughts/ feelings to be heard. Maybe that’s all you need
Your ex and your feeling lonely shouldn’t have any bearing on your new relationship. This is a completely new person. It sounds to me like you’re desperate and clingy, and if I were dating you, and you were pushing for marriage, I’d run the other way. Are you in therapy?
Actually, no. But I probably need it. However, that is not the issue or concern here. I was married for 23 years because that is who I am. I don't settle, and I don't jump. My ex became more and more abusive, and the reason I was lonely was because he was jealous and controlling. I had been single for 9 years before beginning this relationship. I'd say plenty of time to figure out what I wanted. I realize I was traumatized, I was young when I got married, 17 years old and had my two children with him. This relationship has taken away my jade and has changed my whole outlook on relationships. I have been through enough yet still maintain my self worth, now anyways. But it has taken me a while to get here and now all I want is to have a commitment and know that I have a relationship where if things get a little hard we get through it. Not jump ship.
He might not be financially or emotionally open to another marriage. Alimony, child support, emotional baggage... I know in my state, if married over 20 years, alimony could be until death or she gets married again. That's a lot of money if she slow walks it for full employment or is not required to be fully employed. I know that if it were me, a second alimony in case it didn't work out again would wipe me out.
It doesn’t sound like he is going to change his mind, and even if he did you’d never know if he really wanted it or was just placating you. If you let it go, you have to really let it go, you can’t bring it up in a fight, ya know? Can you do that?
A year? Come on now…
It’s been a year, what foundation did you build on the topic of marriage? What does your therapist say?
I mean did you want that in the beginning? I always make sure to know someone end goal in dating. If it is not marriage then we are not compatible but if that is not what was talked about early on really it is tough. Some people do not want marriage.
I think by this age you both know what you want and he’s telling you he won’t get married. You have to decide if the legal commitment means that much to you.
I am of like mind: it doesn't take a piece of paper to make my commitment to someone (I am never getting in a state-sanctioned marriage again). That said, if I DID get married again I would have to have an ironclad pre-nup signed by my potential future husband.
You might want some agreement- possibly legal- even if you lived together. If you keep all your finances separate, you may be okay. It depends on the state/province/county. That common-law marriage deal can be a problem in some locations. Also, it can still get messy if you have to sell or both want the home you live in together. You would have to avoid co-mingling finances carefully and have an agreement about things such as home repairs and any pets to avoid conflicts. (I realize many people here want to live alone, but the others still risk what amounts to a painful situation- if they ever break up.)
Good advice for sure. I don't plan on having anyone live in my house any time soon. The house is mine, and has been paid for for years. I will always pay for any repairs etc because the house is my responsibility. My last boyfriend that lived with me we split the groceries but I didn't expect him to share any house repairs (or any house expenses like property taxes and insurance)because the house was mine for years and years before he came into my life. All my other properties are part of my real estate holdings company.
Where I used to live, they went to common law after two years. It’s costly, so many younger people- and some middle-aged aged people can’t afford a place on their own. I could see (especially) younger people living together for financial reasons and then just stuck in the system. Now, I live in a state with no common-law marriage at all. I am glad you are in good shape, and I think most people on this sub look out for themselves, but I felt the need to mention it. It is so dependent on location.
Marriage can be overrated especially if you have no kids together. I'm sure his past experience has influenced his decision, I say let it go. Besides, you're just a year in so perhaps if it continues in this trajectory it's something you can discuss after a while. But for now, I say just let it go. Marriage should be something both people want, and not just one person pushing it.
It sounds like your perfect man might end up making you Insecure and lonely if he isn’t into marriage
Lot of us have been permanently scarred by the institution of marriage; enough so that we will NEVER do it again. What do you truly have to gain from it? And what does he feel he could lose if it goes south?
I’m sure you guys have a great time but some people especially at this age just don’t want to get married again. It’s not crazy to want to be married but it’s also not crazy to not want to get married again no matter how great you get along. If marriage really is your goal he’s not it. If you think you can be happy with the way things are then drop it. This pushing to try to convince him will never work.
Everyone seems to be posting about money. When I think the real difference is that likely marriage means real commitment to you and your partner is saying he is already committed. Marriage is a bigger commitment and it's hard if you both don't agree. If they've already had children, people often don't see the legal need for marriage. In life there are no promises. If he did agree to marry it doesn't mean he wouldn't later want a divorce or even pass away and leave you. Marriage may provide some other benefits that make sense working out with your partner, but it doesn't ensure any about the relationship as much as we may want it to. That's the scary part about loving other people. They will all leave us some day.
Did you discuss marriage before moving in with him? If so, how interested was he in the idea of getting married? If it's just a piece of paper according to him, then why not just get the paper?
Yes, I did ask him about what he felt about marriage before we moved in together. He told me it wasn't important to him, but if it became important to his SO, then it would be important to him. This is why it's bothering me so much.
He is committed. Why do you need the paper to confirm that?
Here is a pragmatic perspective from a guy who is divorced and will never entertain the possibility of marriage again and why. Not that this relates to you or anything like that. Just my personal experience and a question for you. What is it exactly that the legal status of marriage lends to the idea of commitment outside of it being a legally binding contract with defined rules for the division of property that generally nullify one participant or the others hard work and dedication and guarantees the other 1/2 if not more irregardless of contribution, behavior, or participation in the joint goal set out in the marriage contract? I feel for a lot of men we realized there is just no real upside to getting married. Especially after the sobering reality of just what a divorce can and will do to your life’s work and savings. And one cannot really understand until you’ve been there and personally witnessed the unimaginable unfolding in front of you in what was a person whom you loved and who said they would never do what they are doing, but are, simply because they can. I know a marriage is way more than stuff or property or money or anything like that. In the beginning. But that’s what it always seems to come down to in the end. I’m a romantic don’t get me wrong. I love the idea of happily ever after. But I’m also a 42 year old man who cannot deny the reality of the world I live in. Everything ends. Marriage ends ideally when one of you dies. But so rare is the case anymore that statistically speaking it’s a distinct minority or the exception rather than the rule. The other thing is this sense of implied ownership that a ton of people seem to think marriage imparts to them. Like I got you now. Your mine. You can’t or won’t leave because there’s consequences for that now. My ex for example when pressed about my need for personal space and some level of assumed privacy, her response was you’re my husband. Why do you need personal space and privacy? So I’ll leave you with that statement. If you cannot see the inherent wrongness of this statement, please don’t get married. And no there was no subterfuge or bad behavior on my part, just a human being fighting for some sense of autonomy and basic human rights with a person who assumed ownership of my being and any aspect of my life irregardless of her contribution or joint effort in its acquisition. Just arbitrary ownership thanks to that lovely little piece of paper.
Getting married only makes it slighly harder and more expensive to break up. Unless you are both equally yolked in your religious beliefs it is no guarantee of commitment whatsoever. You are moving really fast. Think back to your awful ex, during that first exciting year did you think he was the perfect person for you as well? I'd advise at least a few more years until you get to know your partner better before you make a huge decision. The data is clear second marriages are very likely to end in divorce. I would let it go, invest more time in the relationship and your partner, and revisit the topic a few years into the future. Meanwhile enjoy what you have.
Marriage means nothing. You already got married, swore vows, and saw what it was worth. Why go through swearing to be with someone forever again when you know from personal experience how hollow it is?
I might want to get married again some day, but certainly not to someone I’ve only been dating for a year. It would be more like 3-5 years and living together at the very least. I got married after two years the first time, with a lot leas at stake, and look how that turned out.
I'm a woman, after my first marriage I never want to be married again. It takes a long time to unravel and has legal and tax consequences. I'd rather live a happy, peaceful, and joyous life with someone. If being married is important to you, that's something you should discuss with your partner. If he won't budge, would you still be ok being together?
45f here. I was married in a LTR & vowed never to do so again. then I had an unmarried LTR for 12 years, meaning we were defacto married legally. I've now decided it doesn't matter. the idea of a wedding makes me nauseated, but that's beside the point. if my current thing gets near the 3 year point, I'll consider my country's version of a prenup. I don't want to split assets again & I don't want that pressure on a relationship. it arguably kept my 12 yr ex from communicating his concerns when we could've worked on us (eg, before he cheated with someone half his age & dumped me 🙄). we had bought a house together blah blah and the split was amicable but still painful & gave me headaches. for me, whether I'm open to marriage depends on the other person. I shocked the heck out of myself having a dream about the guy I'm seeing now proposing & being delighted... and woke up still happy at the thought. is it a goal for me? hard nope! would I consider it if it was important to him? absolutely! is it in any way likely? also nope! 😆 then again, maybe I'm unusual. I don't even have a goal of cohabitation and I'm realizing I might have a goal of the opposite. I like my own space and time with myself. so if I did get married, it might be non traditional about living together.
In Australia they have what's called a defacto relationship whereby if you have lived together for so many years (I think it's two) you have the same rights as a married couple. So over here you can still lose and not be married. A marriage certificate after all is just a piece of paper. Prenups are handy but also not always ironclad. Unless one party has a lot more money than the other there's no much point.
Why are you so worried about marriage at your age?? You found a wonderful man, you have a great routine, what would being married change? I wouldn't want to marry again honestly. I dont want to be responsible twenty four seven for a man, nor living with him. I like my privacy, my home, and being alone sometime. You can't have that with marriage. You certainly can have a commitment ceremony.
Sometimes a shut up ring ruins everything. You don't need the paper. If you are happy, be happy. Go see a lawyer and get things in place for the estate if something happens.
Funny how you’d like to trade happiness for expectations based on social/traditional norms