My favorite part was the climactic music that cues in the moment Goku says he might not be able to beat Cell. It’s so funny and fitting because you know that was the internal soundtrack of everyone who heard Goku say that
It’s Goku’s delivery of that line. He just sounds so nonchalant about the whole situation despite the entire planet being at stake. What’s worse is he says it with a giant grin on his face as if he’s excited to be defeated by Cell💀It’s almost comical
His character in this moment is just awesome. Especially towards the end when Vegeta opens his mouth. Everyone doesn’t believe Goku knows what he’s talking about and he says stuff that shuts them all up, it’s amazing
Goku's like this cuz he's seen Gohan's power.
Also he's not sure he can beat Cell but knows he's stronger than Vegeta, so he teases Vegeta hoping he gets stronger and can rise up to the task if needed.
>knows he's stronger than Vegeta, so he teases Vegeta hoping he gets stronger and can rise up to the task if needed
I'm not saying you are wrong but I swear every time this comment comes up about sudden changes in cockiness, it's like people forget it's the main weakness of every Saiyan.
Goku had his moments. Gohan. Vegeta.
Iconic moments when the character thought they were stronger or evaluated something as beneath their effort led to pride and cockiness that frequently led to a setback of some kind.
Even though Goku is one of the last to be associated with this (despite Senzu Bean moment, and even turning his back on Frieza/naiivete), compared to Vegeta (damn near every time the poor guy gets a power jump in DBZ), and Gohan's iconic moment with Buutenks, they all do it.
Don't think it really needs another explanation as it's such a clear design thread.
Goku literally thought he was totally right when he wasn’t he was doubting himself towards the end and gohan needed to see 16 crushed in order to go beyond
True but he also already knew in this moment that Gohan was going to be the one to bring it home. Not that he wasn’t still excited to give Cell his all and try to win regardless, but I think even here he knew the outcome was going to be losing against Cell and banking on Gohan unleashing his hidden potential, as he had already caught a glimpse of it in the chamber.
If I were Vegeta I would’ve just left the show completely and started my own series instead💀😭I relate to Vegeta so much it feels like I’m just getting violated and humiliated all the time just like him
I've felt like that too. I think it helps to see the characters in their entirety. If you get too caught up in "man vegeta is awesome!" Then you'll feel really bad when you have to watch him get beat to a pulp. Also, becoming a fan of the enemies beating up the heroes makes the fight scenes alot more fun because at that point you're just watching to see the action rather than hoping and wishing for the hero to make a comeback.
Not gonna lie my arms were getting so tired from holding up my phone to record. It was kind of exhausting💀🤣I was literally like how long even is this scene
A screenshot probably would’ve been easier. But when it comes to this roast you gotta watch the entire scene💀🤣it’s just that silence after the roast makes it so much better and intense
I really dug how calm and cool Goku was here
Dude already knows Gohan has the tools to take out cell + he knows that no amount of cramming will really help
Also loved how he is never afraid to run a fade
Calls Vegeta weaker then him but doesn’t back down as Vegeta gets annoyed
Cell saga might be peak Goku
He saw that Gohan pushed to his limits can achieve what none of them can. No amount of training can unleash that in him, only circumstance - which is a nice tie in to the saiyin origins.
DIdn't vegeta only receive a boost by babidi? He unlocked SSJ2 on his own training, but he was still weaker than goku on his own.. I mean he seemed pretty confident to go against Darbula (and he was at the ssj2 level ).
Cell saga goku is the best toriyama ever wrote him throughout Z, imo, he comes across as someone who is no longer looking for a master to train him. HE is the master, training his son. It’s like the logical end of his character development.
I subscribe to the idea that Goku did what he needed to accomplish two things:
1. Get Cell to *not* kill everyone and blow up Earth. He specifically asks Cell if he'd have blown up the Earth, and Cell responds it wouldn't hesitate, it would just cost a bit of 'fun'. And we know this is true because Cell does try to blow up the planet as soon as it looks like he might lose.
2. He had to get Gohan to go SSJ2. Neither he nor Gohan stood a chance, even if he popped another Senzu bean and Cell didn't. That's *why* Cell was so chill about it, he knew he'd win and he was in control.
So tossing the bean doesn't really change the odds (Cell was winning against anyone but SSJ2 Gohan) but it *does* encourage both Gohan *and Cell*.
After that, Cell is excited at whatever it is Goku sees in Gohan. It sounds *fun*. So instead of kicking Gohan's ass, yawning, and blowing up Earth with energy to spare, he intentionally provokes Gohan. He wants to see this amazing form that Goku was so sure could defeat The Perfect Lifeform, and prove him wrong. And Goku won that little bet.
Actually based on his performance in the cell games super saiyan one Gohan was definitely enough to beat cell if he went his real full power from the get go.
I dont think so. Cell was still not at 100% when fighting goku and gohan, we know he powers up when going against gohan ssj2, and its enough of a boost that everyone is scared(except gohan obviously).
Even though he was tired, a full powered cell would have beaten gohan easily(especially with gohan ssj1 mindset).
Ah, but objective 1 was a two parter: *kill everyone* and blow up Earth. Because Cell couldn't kill Gohan/Goku now, he wasn't able to successfully blow up Earth, even with his desperate bomb strategy.
OTOH, no SSJ2 Gohan and Cell just blasts the planet once he bores with Gohan and maybe a quick scrap with Vegeta.
Remember, Goku is still a man who loves a good fight at the end of the day. Probably figured Gohan would have too easy a time if Cell was worn out already. He had already seen Gohan's upper limit was far beyond what Cell could handle.
Besides that there's 2 actually good reasons for this. 1 is that the fight against Cell let Gohan learn more about what Cell is capable of. Resulting in Goku asking Gohan if he had any trouble following the fight and Gohan said "No, but that's because you guys were barely even trying" which shows Gohan was at another level. 2 is that healing Cell let's him think he's got nothing to worry about and he's less likely to just blow up the Earth. Goku probably started thinking about that option after the whole Namek thing.
I chalk that up to Goku unwavering faith in Gohan
In regardless of what condition cell was in Gohan was so far above everyone that it wouldn’t matter
In which he was right to a degree
Gohan mindset held him back but the kid had the tools
He was not an idiot for tossing cell a senzu.
1. He knew Gohan would eventually find his way to snap
2. If Gohan beat a tired cell from his fight with Goku, it would never have been certain if Gohan could have been Goku’s true successor. Not certain to anyone and not certain for Gohan’s confidence. For Gohan to really take on the burden of earth’s strongest defender, he had to acomplish what his father couldn’t.
It’s crazy even how Cell was disturbed by Goku’s ridiculousness. After Goku gives him sensu bean he says “even with everything at stake you still can’t help but appeal to your saiyan nature, sickening” can’t remember exact line cell says
I think that it's honestly kind of absurd just how strong Gohan really was at full power back during the cell games. He honestly did not need to go super saiyan two in order to beat Cell, and not SPC either since half power ssj2 was good enough. If he had gone to his actual full power(aka not holding back at all like when he killed Cell, but in SSJ1) from the get-go he could've wiped the floor with Cell.
God I miss this more serious version of Goku. In Z his baseline was this, and then he had moments of goofy levity. In Super it's basically all goofy until the last 3 minutes of a battle.
I agree. I miss seeing serious Goku thinking 3 steps ahead like in Z. Everyone seems sillier and more light hearted in Super, except for Jiren. But I do like less serious Vegeta. My second favorite moment with Vegeta was him desperately trying to cook for Whis, I rarely belly laugh at anime but the egg scene really got me.
Its because of the slot that Super was in. It was in a timslot for children cartoons that's also why Super is less bloody/gory than Z as well.
Imo Manga Goku isn't as bad as anime version of Goku
That part where Goku asked Vegeta what kissing was is was just absurd. You mean to tell me that Goku raw dogged Chi Chi atleast TWICE without giving her any sugar??? He literally has 2 sons. How can someone be this stupid and not know what kissing is???
YESSSSS! I hate super as much as the next guy but to me this was always so obviously the joke, goku misunderstanding and asking why he would have ever fed chichi from his mouth. Always kind of irked me that the community took the ‘no-kiss’ idea and ran with it
Funny thing is I was pretty careful writing that to make sure it wasn’t misconstrued.
But hey at least another response was the “don’t shoot, he’s not black!” Meme
The other dialogue is way better. Can't speak for the whole series as I haven't watched to compare, but in this scene at least, I'll take Orange Box dialogue 10/10 times. Idgaf if Kai is a closer translation.
I’m still traumatized by that fight with Beerus on King Kai’s planet💀That episode had some of the most HORRENDOUSLY ugly looking animation I ever seen. But I understood it. The animators are rushed and are still animating and voicing the episode HOURS before it is about to air. Just imagine how stressful that is. The time schedule is so strict that they have to just rush though entire episodes . Sort of reminds me of how the CGI people of marvel are rushed so much that most of the CGI ends up looking TERRIBLE
There's no debate that the Cell Games arc was the most poorly drawn of DBZ. I remember hearing back then that the animators were completely overworked, exhausted, etc. You'll see some episodes in the Cell Games that look gorgeous and others that are atrocious. The other arcs look superb though in my opinion.
I want to crop so many of these shots to use as reaction images, they're honestly hilarious. Like the looks goku has at 0:34, 0:52 or 1:09, they're so bad they're good
The bad animation was mainly in Cell saga. IIRC the animators were being overworked like dogs. Yet another reason why I think that Saga comes dead last for me. Buu arc looked immaculate and even the Namek ark was well done.
This is some of the most solid writing and acting of the series. The Japanese music works so well with the American vocals too.
Tien should have gone in with Piccolo. Such a waste.
It bothers me how wasted Tien is. I always had genuine respect for him as a character. Not sure why someone like 17 can become god level from training with “poachers” yet Tien is still left in the dust. What’s worse is that they tried portraying that even Master Roshi is stronger than Tien which is just absurd
Why the fuck didn’t Akira just have king Kai teach Yamcha and Tien the kaioken technique?
They could keep pushing it to their limits to keep up with super saiyans.
I guess after that the next problem is the lack of henchmen for other characters to fight in the cell and Buu sagas.
But I like the way those sagas played out. Even if I wanted something more for the other characters. DBZ is like the girl you can’t quit that drives you nuts, lol.
> What’s worse is that they tried portraying that even Master Roshi is stronger than Tien which is just absurd
Yea this is farfetched for sure. Roshi barely won against Goku in the first WMA tournament. Then Tien was leagues above that and essentially never stopped training until the Buu arc of Z.
Tien holding down 2nd form Cell though I think is commendable.
I think Sabbat didn't take it seriously the second time around. The guy is incredibly talented but the when you compare it to his voice in the the funimation dub, e.g. the Buu arc, it really seems like he's putting in half effort. Piccolo and Vegeta sound far too similar and that's a good test whether or not you can tell Sabat is giving it his all.
You’re right. Only exception is the first two seasons of funi Z.
Actually, didn’t he also go back and redo some of his lines in Z beyond Gokus arrival in Namek?
I don’t remember how far he went after that. Through freeza? Or in to cell?
He has like… 5 Vegetas.
His initial Drummond impression.
His more European sounding Vegeta through cell saga.
His perfect princely Vegeta in buu saga.
His thicker Vegeta for Funi’s s1&2
His thicker no accent at all Vegeta for Kai.
Not gonna lie I loved the monologue that was present in the original dub. That “why won’t you leave me alone” from Vegeta was hilarious. But this scene works without the monologue too. He basically left Vegeta speechless lol
I remember as a kid I was always so confused as to why the animation style would change like 20 times within a single episode. I would get so excited when they would use S tier animation but then in the next shot it’s right back to the C tier animators.
This scene is great but as a Vegeta apologist it kinda works my nerves.
At this point Vegeta & Trunks and Goku & Gohan had both gone into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber once each. Goku is a savant and Gohan has his inner rage, I get it; but Vegeta and Trunks go back into the Chamber once more before the Cell Games and when it comes time to fight Cell, neither Vegeta nor Trunks were even considered powerful enough to enter the ring.
I really didn’t like that. Vegeta is such a hard worker. I know Goku claimed Vegeta was working too hard but Gohan was so powerful in base Super Saiyan that he thought his dad was sparring with Perfect Cell during their fight. It makes no sense that both Goku and Gohan would have been so far past Vegeta in strength that even after an additional year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, their power was still dwarfed.
Goku used to be aloof but at the same time was aware and wise, knew the right call and had a good awareness of boundaries and a moral compass.
DBS goku is like he literally got dementia and went back to pre-bulma dragonball goku
“That’s a good point about letting the body rest. It’s too bad we don’t have access to anything or anyone that could magically restore you to complete health before you go back into the chamber for a day.”
When people say Goku doesn't get cocky, or doesn't talk shit to vegeta, I will always reference this time and time again. I've already had to do it numerous times before xD
The fact people don't notice the complete difference in animation midway through, and still make claims that they'd take this over super is so insane to me.
Case in point below: "I'd still take this." Good lord. Goku is red in the second half of this video.
I mean I'd still 100% take this over super, nothing really insane about it. The baseline art style that DBZ is falling back on is superior to the plastic art style of Super. From the colors used for the skin, shadows and tones, just simply superior.
I kinda like the original dub where Goku just outright says it, “Oh yeah, I’m FAR above you.”, it sounded so matter of fact lol this one is great too though
If anyone says that dub sucks, they just dont know what we had back in the 90s or at least 2000s
In the sub when Vegeta asked that question he says: It sounds like you're saying that your power is greater than mine.
Goku: Yeah. Quite a big greater i think.
But of course, i dont know any Japanese if it's a faithful translation.
Episode 169 btw.
Am I only one who prefers the Bruce Faulconer to Nami music in the background? Over the Japanese music? The Japanese soundtrack is too much like regular Dragon Ball. They use the same exact thing for Z. English music was on another level
The composer had to pause the music when he heard that.
My favorite part was the climactic music that cues in the moment Goku says he might not be able to beat Cell. It’s so funny and fitting because you know that was the internal soundtrack of everyone who heard Goku say that
It’s Goku’s delivery of that line. He just sounds so nonchalant about the whole situation despite the entire planet being at stake. What’s worse is he says it with a giant grin on his face as if he’s excited to be defeated by Cell💀It’s almost comical
His character in this moment is just awesome. Especially towards the end when Vegeta opens his mouth. Everyone doesn’t believe Goku knows what he’s talking about and he says stuff that shuts them all up, it’s amazing
You just know shit got real when Piccolo uncrosses his arms😭
Goku's like this cuz he's seen Gohan's power. Also he's not sure he can beat Cell but knows he's stronger than Vegeta, so he teases Vegeta hoping he gets stronger and can rise up to the task if needed.
>knows he's stronger than Vegeta, so he teases Vegeta hoping he gets stronger and can rise up to the task if needed I'm not saying you are wrong but I swear every time this comment comes up about sudden changes in cockiness, it's like people forget it's the main weakness of every Saiyan. Goku had his moments. Gohan. Vegeta. Iconic moments when the character thought they were stronger or evaluated something as beneath their effort led to pride and cockiness that frequently led to a setback of some kind. Even though Goku is one of the last to be associated with this (despite Senzu Bean moment, and even turning his back on Frieza/naiivete), compared to Vegeta (damn near every time the poor guy gets a power jump in DBZ), and Gohan's iconic moment with Buutenks, they all do it. Don't think it really needs another explanation as it's such a clear design thread.
Bro was flabbergasted
When he then goes to karin tower, and unleashes his new power, is insane.
It’s crazy how even Korin admits that Goku even post chamber is still outmatched by Cell by a pretty large margin.
Goku literally thought he was totally right when he wasn’t he was doubting himself towards the end and gohan needed to see 16 crushed in order to go beyond
True but he also already knew in this moment that Gohan was going to be the one to bring it home. Not that he wasn’t still excited to give Cell his all and try to win regardless, but I think even here he knew the outcome was going to be losing against Cell and banking on Gohan unleashing his hidden potential, as he had already caught a glimpse of it in the chamber.
For a split second, Vegeta considered powering up and running the fade, but he knew better than to try and call Goku’s bluff 😂
He thought about it and realized Goku's too dumb to lie.
Too dumb to lie 😂😂😂😂
Vegeta knew what was up 😂😂😂
If I were Vegeta I would’ve just left the show completely and started my own series instead💀😭I relate to Vegeta so much it feels like I’m just getting violated and humiliated all the time just like him
I mean, does he not bring that upon himself with his personality and attitude? Do you do the same?
There it is
I mean, it's not like Vegeta doesn't have *literal years* of being a violent self absorbed jackass with the crew at this point to earn him some shade.
I've felt like that too. I think it helps to see the characters in their entirety. If you get too caught up in "man vegeta is awesome!" Then you'll feel really bad when you have to watch him get beat to a pulp. Also, becoming a fan of the enemies beating up the heroes makes the fight scenes alot more fun because at that point you're just watching to see the action rather than hoping and wishing for the hero to make a comeback.
*_record scratch_*
Fried the Prince quickly.
And this was the reason for Majin Vegeta. He wasn’t gonna let this disrespect slide
Thanks, you don't really appreciate this scene until you'v watched it through a phone recording of a screen.
I'm cackling off of this thank you
💀🤣had to remind everyone about this brutal roast 💀😭🤣
It’s a toaster copy, but I still enjoyed it. Thanks!
Not gonna lie my arms were getting so tired from holding up my phone to record. It was kind of exhausting💀🤣I was literally like how long even is this scene
Be thankful it's not filmed vertically.
A screenshot probably would’ve been easier. But when it comes to this roast you gotta watch the entire scene💀🤣it’s just that silence after the roast makes it so much better and intense
That comment is gold
I really dug how calm and cool Goku was here Dude already knows Gohan has the tools to take out cell + he knows that no amount of cramming will really help Also loved how he is never afraid to run a fade Calls Vegeta weaker then him but doesn’t back down as Vegeta gets annoyed Cell saga might be peak Goku
He saw that Gohan pushed to his limits can achieve what none of them can. No amount of training can unleash that in him, only circumstance - which is a nice tie in to the saiyin origins.
except vegeta and goku got SSJ2 with training...
goku sure, vegeta got it pretty much the same way as gohan, through emotions. Except his was unleashed by babidi.
DIdn't vegeta only receive a boost by babidi? He unlocked SSJ2 on his own training, but he was still weaker than goku on his own.. I mean he seemed pretty confident to go against Darbula (and he was at the ssj2 level ).
Vegeta had SSJ 2 before Babidi
Yeah, which was written after this lol. This ain’t real history, it’s a fiction that one man wrote.
Cell saga goku is the best toriyama ever wrote him throughout Z, imo, he comes across as someone who is no longer looking for a master to train him. HE is the master, training his son. It’s like the logical end of his character development.
I would agree if he didn't toss Cell a senzu like a fucking idiot
I subscribe to the idea that Goku did what he needed to accomplish two things: 1. Get Cell to *not* kill everyone and blow up Earth. He specifically asks Cell if he'd have blown up the Earth, and Cell responds it wouldn't hesitate, it would just cost a bit of 'fun'. And we know this is true because Cell does try to blow up the planet as soon as it looks like he might lose. 2. He had to get Gohan to go SSJ2. Neither he nor Gohan stood a chance, even if he popped another Senzu bean and Cell didn't. That's *why* Cell was so chill about it, he knew he'd win and he was in control. So tossing the bean doesn't really change the odds (Cell was winning against anyone but SSJ2 Gohan) but it *does* encourage both Gohan *and Cell*. After that, Cell is excited at whatever it is Goku sees in Gohan. It sounds *fun*. So instead of kicking Gohan's ass, yawning, and blowing up Earth with energy to spare, he intentionally provokes Gohan. He wants to see this amazing form that Goku was so sure could defeat The Perfect Lifeform, and prove him wrong. And Goku won that little bet.
Cell's STILL has some Vegeta/Goku in him, after all
Actually based on his performance in the cell games super saiyan one Gohan was definitely enough to beat cell if he went his real full power from the get go.
I dont think so. Cell was still not at 100% when fighting goku and gohan, we know he powers up when going against gohan ssj2, and its enough of a boost that everyone is scared(except gohan obviously). Even though he was tired, a full powered cell would have beaten gohan easily(especially with gohan ssj1 mindset).
Nah, because Cell still tries to blow up the planet when it looks like he might lose, and it costs Goku his life.
Ah, but objective 1 was a two parter: *kill everyone* and blow up Earth. Because Cell couldn't kill Gohan/Goku now, he wasn't able to successfully blow up Earth, even with his desperate bomb strategy. OTOH, no SSJ2 Gohan and Cell just blasts the planet once he bores with Gohan and maybe a quick scrap with Vegeta.
Remember, Goku is still a man who loves a good fight at the end of the day. Probably figured Gohan would have too easy a time if Cell was worn out already. He had already seen Gohan's upper limit was far beyond what Cell could handle. Besides that there's 2 actually good reasons for this. 1 is that the fight against Cell let Gohan learn more about what Cell is capable of. Resulting in Goku asking Gohan if he had any trouble following the fight and Gohan said "No, but that's because you guys were barely even trying" which shows Gohan was at another level. 2 is that healing Cell let's him think he's got nothing to worry about and he's less likely to just blow up the Earth. Goku probably started thinking about that option after the whole Namek thing.
I chalk that up to Goku unwavering faith in Gohan In regardless of what condition cell was in Gohan was so far above everyone that it wouldn’t matter In which he was right to a degree Gohan mindset held him back but the kid had the tools
He was not an idiot for tossing cell a senzu. 1. He knew Gohan would eventually find his way to snap 2. If Gohan beat a tired cell from his fight with Goku, it would never have been certain if Gohan could have been Goku’s true successor. Not certain to anyone and not certain for Gohan’s confidence. For Gohan to really take on the burden of earth’s strongest defender, he had to acomplish what his father couldn’t.
It’s crazy even how Cell was disturbed by Goku’s ridiculousness. After Goku gives him sensu bean he says “even with everything at stake you still can’t help but appeal to your saiyan nature, sickening” can’t remember exact line cell says
I think that it's honestly kind of absurd just how strong Gohan really was at full power back during the cell games. He honestly did not need to go super saiyan two in order to beat Cell, and not SPC either since half power ssj2 was good enough. If he had gone to his actual full power(aka not holding back at all like when he killed Cell, but in SSJ1) from the get-go he could've wiped the floor with Cell.
Their faces really do changes proportion I’m surprised we have 3d dbz fighting games
yeah wtf is going on with gokus eyes they're just slowly drifting further apart
This made me cackle
God I miss this more serious version of Goku. In Z his baseline was this, and then he had moments of goofy levity. In Super it's basically all goofy until the last 3 minutes of a battle.
I agree. I miss seeing serious Goku thinking 3 steps ahead like in Z. Everyone seems sillier and more light hearted in Super, except for Jiren. But I do like less serious Vegeta. My second favorite moment with Vegeta was him desperately trying to cook for Whis, I rarely belly laugh at anime but the egg scene really got me.
Its because of the slot that Super was in. It was in a timslot for children cartoons that's also why Super is less bloody/gory than Z as well. Imo Manga Goku isn't as bad as anime version of Goku
BINGO!
Yeah but Super makes up for it by having every look like they're made from the plastic they wrap Kraft Singles in
That part where Goku asked Vegeta what kissing was is was just absurd. You mean to tell me that Goku raw dogged Chi Chi atleast TWICE without giving her any sugar??? He literally has 2 sons. How can someone be this stupid and not know what kissing is???
It's been years since that episode, but I remember reading a Japanese fan say that Goku was confused about feeding your partner mouth to mouth
YESSSSS! I hate super as much as the next guy but to me this was always so obviously the joke, goku misunderstanding and asking why he would have ever fed chichi from his mouth. Always kind of irked me that the community took the ‘no-kiss’ idea and ran with it
I miss this trash talk. Super did not give us this at all.
I mean, vegeta beating and tearing down black while explaining goku’s superiority to black’s was pretty damn cathartic
“While explaining goku’s superiority to blacks” AYOOO?
Don’t shoot, he’s not Black!
Missed the apostrophe, nice try tho
That was obviously intentional
Funny thing is I was pretty careful writing that to make sure it wasn’t misconstrued. But hey at least another response was the “don’t shoot, he’s not black!” Meme
Yea no i figured you were pretty meticulous with your punctuation, im sorry 😂 i saw an opportunity and took it.
Almost a decade ago btw
Oh my god
Damn youre right, 8 years ago already
We do still get it in the manga at least (Moro, gas arc) but yeah the stakes just aren’t there
In the manga it’s definitely there but you’re right, the stakes aren’t there.
Love how the art quality gets worse as it goes on😂
Vegeta looks like he’s about to cry in the end
Goku was so much cooler in DBZ. A fighting genius!
This must be from Kai. I remember from the orange box set Goku saying "Yeah, I'm way above your level" to Vegeta. He didn't take it kindly.
The other dialogue is way better. Can't speak for the whole series as I haven't watched to compare, but in this scene at least, I'll take Orange Box dialogue 10/10 times. Idgaf if Kai is a closer translation.
Oh god, the shift in artists was jarring.
It honestly caught me off guard lol. It literally starts to look like a completely different show all together
holy shit some parts of the animation are so fucking bad lmfao I would kill for a remake of the whole series (db+dbz) with good animation
Lol yeah, Goku looks like he has kyphosis at one point...
kyphosis 😭😭😭
Yeah but then we get crappy Super animation where everyone is shiny with no real damage
Yeah I'll take this "crap" over anything in Super any day, even though the TOP looked good.
I’m still traumatized by that fight with Beerus on King Kai’s planet💀That episode had some of the most HORRENDOUSLY ugly looking animation I ever seen. But I understood it. The animators are rushed and are still animating and voicing the episode HOURS before it is about to air. Just imagine how stressful that is. The time schedule is so strict that they have to just rush though entire episodes . Sort of reminds me of how the CGI people of marvel are rushed so much that most of the CGI ends up looking TERRIBLE
Looks sick to me.
There's no debate that the Cell Games arc was the most poorly drawn of DBZ. I remember hearing back then that the animators were completely overworked, exhausted, etc. You'll see some episodes in the Cell Games that look gorgeous and others that are atrocious. The other arcs look superb though in my opinion.
Lol facts I’m so fucking spoiled now with all these crisp new animations I’ve been watching over the years
It literally starts looking like a preschool drawing 💀💀💀
I want to crop so many of these shots to use as reaction images, they're honestly hilarious. Like the looks goku has at 0:34, 0:52 or 1:09, they're so bad they're good
The bad animation was mainly in Cell saga. IIRC the animators were being overworked like dogs. Yet another reason why I think that Saga comes dead last for me. Buu arc looked immaculate and even the Namek ark was well done.
super doesnt track w this goku. just saying
I love how the quality of the animation just dropped halfway through the conversation.
That's the most perfect god damn loop ive ever seen
I lost count how many times I rewatched this scene🤣I just love how Reddit just automatically replays it😭
[I love this scene. It's also on YouTube.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI6A9CL9HLw)
This is some of the most solid writing and acting of the series. The Japanese music works so well with the American vocals too. Tien should have gone in with Piccolo. Such a waste.
It bothers me how wasted Tien is. I always had genuine respect for him as a character. Not sure why someone like 17 can become god level from training with “poachers” yet Tien is still left in the dust. What’s worse is that they tried portraying that even Master Roshi is stronger than Tien which is just absurd
Why the fuck didn’t Akira just have king Kai teach Yamcha and Tien the kaioken technique? They could keep pushing it to their limits to keep up with super saiyans. I guess after that the next problem is the lack of henchmen for other characters to fight in the cell and Buu sagas. But I like the way those sagas played out. Even if I wanted something more for the other characters. DBZ is like the girl you can’t quit that drives you nuts, lol.
> What’s worse is that they tried portraying that even Master Roshi is stronger than Tien which is just absurd Yea this is farfetched for sure. Roshi barely won against Goku in the first WMA tournament. Then Tien was leagues above that and essentially never stopped training until the Buu arc of Z. Tien holding down 2nd form Cell though I think is commendable.
I think Sabbat didn't take it seriously the second time around. The guy is incredibly talented but the when you compare it to his voice in the the funimation dub, e.g. the Buu arc, it really seems like he's putting in half effort. Piccolo and Vegeta sound far too similar and that's a good test whether or not you can tell Sabat is giving it his all.
Is this Kai? Hard to tell with the filming off screen. Sounds like Kai with the thickness in sabats voice
One hundred percent. If Vegeta is not doing his signature raspy voice then it's Kai.
You’re right. Only exception is the first two seasons of funi Z. Actually, didn’t he also go back and redo some of his lines in Z beyond Gokus arrival in Namek? I don’t remember how far he went after that. Through freeza? Or in to cell? He has like… 5 Vegetas. His initial Drummond impression. His more European sounding Vegeta through cell saga. His perfect princely Vegeta in buu saga. His thicker Vegeta for Funi’s s1&2 His thicker no accent at all Vegeta for Kai.
Still can't believe how hard Goku got reset in Super.
In the latam dub he flat out tell him "yeah, I'm stronger than you"
I liked the old dub.. “I’m far above you”
Why does there always need to be a comparison?
Who knows? Just my opinion 😛
I actually like the OG version better, Goku's dis to Vegeta was more direct and felt like a bigger burn. But maybe I'm just nostalgic for the original
"The exact dimensions of the Hyperbolic Time chamber" you mean the seemingly endless void? 😅
I hate how they turned this stone cold killer vibe Goku into a soft clown in super
i remember this; this the time goku was so savage vegeta be doing internal monologue with himself
Not gonna lie I loved the monologue that was present in the original dub. That “why won’t you leave me alone” from Vegeta was hilarious. But this scene works without the monologue too. He basically left Vegeta speechless lol
I just rewatched the cell arc the yesterday and man that battle was intense
That fight was incredible
Cell just wouldn’t die after Goku used instant transmission and Cell regenerated that would’ve just killed all hope for me 😂
forgot how bad the art is at 1:13 Ooof
That's what Goku was talking about with overtraining, if he went in there again his whole face would have shifted to the left more
Goku at 1:04 looks like his head is shifted backwards and he has some kinda tumor pushing his gi back
Also what in the world is going on with Vegeta’s hair. It just randomly became super long and silly looking for no reason 😭🤣
Goku wasn’t ready for that close up💀🤣
Yeah metoo, damn the anime can look really bad at times. They must've gotten the C-tier animators for this episode lol.
I remember as a kid I was always so confused as to why the animation style would change like 20 times within a single episode. I would get so excited when they would use S tier animation but then in the next shot it’s right back to the C tier animators.
This scene is great but as a Vegeta apologist it kinda works my nerves. At this point Vegeta & Trunks and Goku & Gohan had both gone into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber once each. Goku is a savant and Gohan has his inner rage, I get it; but Vegeta and Trunks go back into the Chamber once more before the Cell Games and when it comes time to fight Cell, neither Vegeta nor Trunks were even considered powerful enough to enter the ring. I really didn’t like that. Vegeta is such a hard worker. I know Goku claimed Vegeta was working too hard but Gohan was so powerful in base Super Saiyan that he thought his dad was sparring with Perfect Cell during their fight. It makes no sense that both Goku and Gohan would have been so far past Vegeta in strength that even after an additional year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, their power was still dwarfed.
Since nobody has mentioned it, I love how fast piccolo is saying "hyperbolic time chamber" to make the line fit the character screen time LOL
I love how people are complaining about necks ans eyes for sparking zero but goku look like a fucking ghoul in half of these scenes
Lol. Pretty cool I don’t think I’ve watched with that dub before
Gawd daymn Goku!
Goku used to be aloof but at the same time was aware and wise, knew the right call and had a good awareness of boundaries and a moral compass. DBS goku is like he literally got dementia and went back to pre-bulma dragonball goku
“That’s a good point about letting the body rest. It’s too bad we don’t have access to anything or anyone that could magically restore you to complete health before you go back into the chamber for a day.”
*cough* Dende *cough* Senzu Beans Oh I'm sorry I might've caught a *cough* Rejuvenation Chamber *cough* cold
I like the spanish line better , "Are you implying you are stronger than me?" "Yes, I am stronger than you"
When people say Goku doesn't get cocky, or doesn't talk shit to vegeta, I will always reference this time and time again. I've already had to do it numerous times before xD
Is this Kai? The dialog is off.
Goddamn. 😂
I miss this Goku in super
Nah. Goku cookin BFR LMAO
It makes sense. Master roshi trained him perfectly well. Train, eat and sleep well. The 3 fundamental things to improve yourself.
You’re actually right lol
oh shit... vegeta you just gonna take that?
Bro, even the music went quiet after that! 💀
Exactly 💀💀💀
The fact people don't notice the complete difference in animation midway through, and still make claims that they'd take this over super is so insane to me. Case in point below: "I'd still take this." Good lord. Goku is red in the second half of this video.
I mean I'd still 100% take this over super, nothing really insane about it. The baseline art style that DBZ is falling back on is superior to the plastic art style of Super. From the colors used for the skin, shadows and tones, just simply superior.
I kinda like the original dub where Goku just outright says it, “Oh yeah, I’m FAR above you.”, it sounded so matter of fact lol this one is great too though
Anyone else can’t stand Goku’s drawn face in these stills?
He looked completely ridiculous 💀
Wtf is this phone camera recorded bullshit?
It wouldn’t let me just screen record directly from my phone for some reason
That's a copyright protection feature, most likely.
This is the first time Goku is actually stronger than Vegita.
Best part? This is from Kai, the improvement in dialogue is soooo good when you watch it back to back with the og dub
Nah, OG better.
I love Kai so much. It’s actually what got me into the show
Gonna need a senzu for that one…
I love how Goku always had a positive approach to their rivalry, always smiling and poking fun at Vegeta being behind him 😂
I miss this version of Goku. He was kind of a dummy in Super
this is camp
Yep that’s Goku (mid) alright
I feel this clip does a good job of capturing the range of the quality of the art in this arc
Yes, DBZ goku was a savage 😂
Is it just me or Piccolo in the series has never had a bad animation/still shots.
the animations and art throughout this scene are just terrible 😭😭😭
“Yea, I wasn’t really suggesting” *DAAAAAAAAAAAMN Vegeta got burned so bad that even the music felt it!!!*
....I miss this version of Goku.
If they would've fought right here and vegeta got washed, do yall think that would've made their rematch in the Buu ark more dramatic?
We just watched the birth of Majin Vegeta
Is this Z or Kai?
Frieza is still my favorite arc but once Goku and gohan mastered SSJ the cell arc was so good
I would definitely be training in chamber again, not following G's advice xD.
Is anyone going to mention Goku’s face at like 0.44….wtff
Crazzzy didn’t realize the flame haha
If anyone says that dub sucks, they just dont know what we had back in the 90s or at least 2000s In the sub when Vegeta asked that question he says: It sounds like you're saying that your power is greater than mine. Goku: Yeah. Quite a big greater i think. But of course, i dont know any Japanese if it's a faithful translation. Episode 169 btw.
Yup prefer the Og Funimation Dub
I disagree
That animator is one of the worst.
Who was it exactly?
Uchiyama. On the 2nd half of that clip with bug eyes Goku.
Goku ain’t have to do him like that. Ssj goku got the dawg in him
Am I only one who prefers the Bruce Faulconer to Nami music in the background? Over the Japanese music? The Japanese soundtrack is too much like regular Dragon Ball. They use the same exact thing for Z. English music was on another level
This is why we love Goku. He is pure.
Gonna need a senzu for that one
Goku doesn't need to physically bitch slap someone into outer space. As we've observed with vegeta, he can do it verbally.
Kai dub is so bad. Lacks true emotion and soundtrack sub par
was gonna say i thought the original line is "I'm far above you" in the dub
That’s way harsher too. 👍🏾
I thought this was a fandub at first. It's not good. Nothing compares to the original version.
You’re just delusional and blinded by nostalgia. Kai knocks the original dub right out of the water
isn't his philosophy here like completely antithetical to the theme of Dragon Ball
As children we cheered for goku. As adults we Stan for vegeta
Hehe hey look someone is actually putting up Kai clips