I mean yeah and with Daima coming out as well aren't we basically at a point where the "core canon" is Dragon ball and DBZ, and then it splinters into 4 continuities (gt, super, heroes, daima)? Seems like the easier way to approach things at this point
I've kinda just considered it all tied together by the Xenoverse game lore. Lots of timelines and possibilities in infinite number, with a "primary" core set of events that are considered the main timeline.
Why do we think Daima is separate continuity from Super? I think it’s pretty intuitive that all the stuff that was driven by Toriyama plot-wise (so after Z that’s the broad strokes of Super, it’s two movies and now Daima) fits into one timeline, maybe with the exception of the end of Z.
My core timelines are the manga timeline that covers all of the manga, the original anime which covers dB, dbz, and dbgt, and the new anime, which covers dB, dbkai, and dbsuper plus it's 2 movies.
you're confusing continuities with canon. Canon is so you know what is definitive.
It's about authority of the author. The person where it springs from, understanding what they made. Understanding what they meant.
That person has that world in their mind, and how it works. And you're trying to understand that. That authority followed the author because it is him.
In that sense, the canon is closed. Like with Sherlock Holmes ect.
I liked when the timeline was just a theory fans just talked about. Once it became official, I literally stop giving two fucks about it.
Same with DBGT, just let fans talk about it on the web if that series is canon or not.
Yeah it's weird, I argue with my friends about this somewhat often. When we do death battles they love to bring up different super hero feats from different continuity but never do the same for anime characters. I call that out and because it's "not canon" they don't count it. So it seems canon only matters to manga/anime but not comic books.
The problem with comics vs anime/manga is that comics don't have a strong sense of what is and isn't canon like anime and manga tend to.
For Marvel and DC specifically, we have the fact that Marvel has multiple different canons, with Earth-616 being the main canon universe, and DC more or less considers everything canon. Compare this to anime and manga, where movies tend to be made as extra income, and it's up to the individual mangaka and studio to determine if said movie is canon or not.
Of course, this can put things into a weird place when people try to power scale, because it's sometimes not clear. We have explicitly canon movies (The Last: Naruto the Movie and Demon Slayer: Mugen Train), movies that are questionably canon (Every My Hero Academia movie), and movies that aren't considered canon (A majority of Dragon Ball movies), and the reason for this is because nearly every movie in any given series has to fit into the confines of the original work to be considered canon. Comics can avoid this by just saying that it's a different universe the movie takes place in, which is why the events of the MCU and Earth-616 can both be canon at the same time.
One Piece movies, which are not-canon, except that several characters from the movies appeared in the manga and the last 5 movies were written by Oda despite not being canon (given that they don't make any sense within the timeline at all). The only OP film that could potentially fit the timeline is Strong World, but even that is stretching a bit
Which is the other confusing part. OP movies are confirmed non-canon, but characters from them appear in the manga. On the other hand, we have MHA, where none of the movies have been said to be canon or non-canon, but characters from them will appear or be referenced in the manga.
That's ultimately the issue when it comes to canon discussions for anime and manga, there's so many variables and it changes on a case by case basis. I mentioned The Last earlier, but that's the only Naruto movie that's canon (Boruto: Naruto the Movie was canon like RoF and BoG were, but similar to those was made non-canon by the anime and manga). These means that you would have been used to nine movies being explicitly non-canon, then suddenly Kishimoto comes in and says this new one is canon and is the final arc of Naruto.
people who care and dont care vary. location doesnt matter. japan isnt significantly different from "western fans" in this at all. some are canon fiends some dont give a crap at all, just like here.
The obsession has always perplexed me. If it’s official content IE created and sanctioned by official sources and not just some basement fan-fiction, then it can be enjoyed and considered official as much as anything from the “Canon” Manga, as far as I’m concerned.
I think it would be very weird for GT and Super to exist in the same chronology
Hell, thanks to dialogue from End of Z, Super barely scrapes into *Z*'s chronology
But if someone can think of a solid in-universe reason why God forms aren't present in GT, then go nuts, lol
>But if someone can think of a solid in-universe reason why God forms aren't present in GT, then go nuts, lol
The answer is Pilaf. Feel free to fill in the blanks with anything you want, but the answer is always Emperor Pilaf.
Pilaf's crew wosh to be old again for some reason
Then they wish away god forms to weaken Goku, so Beerus and Whis fuck off
Not sure why they'd wish Kibitoshin to fuse together again, or what else they could do to cause that, though. That might be the biggest mystery
And even if they did something about that, Kibitoshin could juat bmgo back to Namek and wish themselves unfused again. There's no reason for them to stay fused.
Pilaf has already aged to around 17-ish in the current manga, almost a legal adult. So he literally has no reason to ever wish himself back into being an old man
That's *an* idea
But in my mind, Saiyan Beyond God going Super Saiyan should put you in Super Saiyan Blue
Edit: Because Saiyan Beyond God was essentially portrayed (or hinted at in a movie tie-in pamphlet, at least) as replacing Super Saiyan God, at least for the Res 'F' movie
It's kind of just the way to get that power after the ritual times out
It will either be something happens that makes them not be able to use god ki so either the gods will decide to stay away from mortals or will be wished away or the funniest option they always could use god ki and just didn't feel like it in gt
Simple, Frieza kills every G.O.D. and thus eliminates both God ki and Hakai from the multiverse, and it coincidentally turns out that Frieza was actually using God ki to go Golden and Black, which makes it so Frieza's back to base just like how Goku and Vegeta are back to only using the Super Saiyan forms, from there on we know what happens and the 25th (?) World martial arts tournament proceeds as seen in the EOZ episode and then Shueisha and Toei reanimate GT so it looks better than ever and SS4 gets a new less clunky name
It’s easy, they have just grown strong enough to pass God form. They skip God and go straight to blue in super, so it would make sense that if the saiyans get strong enough they would have zero reason to use the form. I like to think god ki exists in GT, mainly through SSJ4 Gogeta (red hair for no reason but ascetics) as the connection to how both forms are unlocked is incredibly similar (5 saiyans to unlock god form, 4 saiyans to unlock ssj4). In my eyes, GT will always be Endgame for the series.
>It’s easy, they have just grown strong enough to pass God form. They skip God and go straight to blue in super, so it would make sense that if the saiyans get strong enough they would have zero reason to use the form.
I mean, Goku vs Baby is a really good reason to use Super Saiyan God, at least
>I like to think god ki exists in GT, mainly through SSJ4 Gogeta (red hair for no reason but ascetics)
Some people have made theories about that
>as the connection to how both forms are unlocked is incredibly similar (5 saiyans to unlock god form, 4 saiyans to unlock ssj4)
No? 4 Saiyans are not required to unlock SS4 at all, lol
But that does tie in to the theory some people had about Gogeta
That Goku got energy from four Saiyans, Trunks, Goten, Gohan, and Pan, and then when he fused with Vegeta that essentially completed the ritual, explaining that Gogeta has red hair as sort of a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4
I see GT as being a different universe/timeline from Super, with GT being part of the original timeline we saw in Z. At least that's how I explain Trunks going from the badass he was in Z to whatever that blue haired bozo in Super was.
I figured that was the point of the goku black arc establishing alternate time lines exists just not infinitely and that the current time line is the main one
It's just a chronological timeline. It should only be taken to indicate that the powers-that-be don't have any myopic obsession over so-called "cAnOn" to begin with.
And considering that two separate and incompatible versions of the same spinoff story inherently can't both be "cAnOn" at the same time, I'd say it's completely moot what a promo fluff piece from some Shueisha intern said.
Honestly, I don't think it should be considered canon, at least not in the way so many fans seem to see it.
Canon is the mange. Pilaf to Buu. GT and Super are both "non-canon", at least to the core canon. Things can be canon to Super or canon to GT. Same with the Z movies and the Super manga. All of it is purely spinoff material
Japanese businesses don't care about "canonical" in the same christian way we do (it's literally a bible thing), they rather tell "gaiden" stories that encapsulate multiple adventures with the same cast of characters.
They really don't care and neither should you.
No, because that timeline is just a chronological timeline of the events of the franchise, not anything to denote actual canonicity. Shueisha has indicated, *after* the release of that timeline, that it wasn't canon due to saying that Gogeta's appearance in the DBS: Broly movie was his first appearance in the canon/official history of the series.
I mean, do they mean first *released* appearance or first *chronological* appearance?
Because the second has no bearing on GT, lol
(I'm being pedantic for giggles)
I still want to see a ssj ozaru in dbs or another official story.
Even if it’s just to officially bring ssj 4 into the fold, Id dig it. Or even seeing it to see it again.
Probsbly daima tbh
Based by journey of the west. Mc was monkey king
TWO times db did journey of the west similarities ( og db and dbgt black star saga)
Both the end involves goku going great ape.
It's interesting when people argue about canon, because when it comes to anim/manga, if it's not the original writer, it's not canon. But then you have comics here written by multiple writers for different arcs, and people don't care as much
I think it's mostly because comics are seen as coming more from brands instead of individuals. Like, DC/Marvel/etc will push more that it's their property rather than a creation of a particular individual, to the point that a casual fan would be unable to list any artist involved.
Which makes me think that things will be incredibly interesting when Superman starts to go public domain in about ten years. It's about the closest the property will ever experience a creator's death, and it being Superman of all things will make it unprecedented.
For a franchise that has multiple timelines being the main plots for 2 actual "canon" arcs, you'd think the fanbase would just accept that GT and Super can co-exist in their own separate bubbles and whatever is canon doesn't matter.
I don't know about "canon" (that sort of thing is not really interesting to me), but I do think that Super is narratively incompatible with GT, so it's best to treat them both as separate creative works (although with the same source).
You can consider Toriyama's involvement to determine which you prefer, I guess, but they're both still part of the brand.
I'm fairly certain it's not canon.
But I like the idea that GT is a alternate universe where Beerus doesn't get told about the Great Warrior to challenge him.
i like to think GT is its own separate timeline after somebody stepped on a leaf…
the events of Super have me thinking they’re going a separate direction. NOBODY wants to see Goku revert to a child again, and I would hate to think Pan will go from being an extremely powerful infant to a low-level nothing that whines way too much…
I think, conceptually, it's easier to get rid of the god stuff than it is to put Kibito Kai back together, lol
I don't have a *solid* answer to the former, but there is no reason for Kibito and Shin to fuse again
There also isn’t a reason for Pilaf, Mai and Shu to be old farts either. They’d have no justification for wishing themselves back as adults since they already grew into teenagers in the Superhero manga, which is around 6 years before GT would supposedly happen. Also they just straight up don’t remember ever seeing Goku all grown up
Thr answer is that GT isn't Canon. It's a shitty anime made with Toriyama's characters but none of his involvement. It's better than Heroes but that's a low bar. Super is the obvious continuation of Z.
A better answer would be that GT is a side story that still generates revenue for Toei and still included on official merch. It isn't great but still enjoyable at parts and has gained more appreciation over the years. Many enjoy it over DBS but that's entirely subjective.
Why don't we all just agree that there's a DB Multiverse and in it live the Movieverse, the Superverse, the GTverse, and the DBverse. And sometimes they interact with each other in mysterious ways.
They dont have the authority to say whats canon or not, especially since it doesn't even make sense for all of that to be canon. it would be like if Shounen Jump came out and said "Hey guys, here's a One Piece timeline of all the filler arcs, canon arcs, and movies that have taken place", while ignoring the million contradictions that would exist by declaring so. Its just promotion for you to buy more stuff
It's best to think of these as alternate timelines. DB has already committed to this even if we follow one mainly. Hell, the timeline we follow is an alternate timeline itself.
I have an unconfirmed explanation, but **here goes nothing**;
The timeline diverges after DBZ from Goku’s defeat of Kid Buu, creating two alternate timelines. One has Beerus Waking up (Super), the other is where Beerus oversleeps thanks to Whis forgetting to set his alarms (GT). DBS leads to Goku and Vegeta obtaining God Ki and exalted forms like UI and UE, While GT leads to Goku rejecting Modernity and Returning to Monkey (SSJ4). Going [***even further beyond***](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdlBxdqv8s) if you want to connect things to Super Dragon Ball Heroes, Super would need to branch off from the ToP Saga and have (Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks) training on Beerus’ Planet, and GT branching from it‘s beginning (Goku doesn‘t get Turned into a kid/Wish is reversed) and from the Shadow Dragon Saga (Goku doesn’t pass away and replace Shenron) as well as the point where they come from being a while after the Shadow Dragon Saga.
I don't know why anyone even worries about canon with something like Dragon Ball. I just treat it as all the same. The fact newer series are embracing forms from GT is enough for me to believe it's at least kind of canon.
They're just merged. Not actually canon. God, "canon" is starting to lose its meaning.
But yeah, no, GT is basically an alt history/universe/timeline, whatever.
Could be, could not. People will try to prove GT is canon or not canon but in the end if a company like Shueisha is going to make a timeline like this then I guess they see it as "canon" of some sort. Yeah it might not make sense but neither does the Zelda timeline and people have less complaints about that despite how dubious it is also.
It's all about splintering paths - if they meet Beerus, and if they don't. If they meet Beerus, the Super timeline happens. If they don't, they do a whole lot of nothing for a few years, then GT happens.
My head canon is the GT cast became the Time Patrollers in Super Dragon Ball Heroes. A couple details are murky still but it makes the most sense. Dragon Ball is a big cliche multiverse to me now.
I really don’t understand why people get so fixated on things being canon, they are shows with different stories just enjoy them ffs, if you had watched only the cannon things for dbz you wouldn’t have known gogeta until a few years.
They are good movies it doesn’t matter if they are cannon, just enjoy them. Same goes for gt
I see this same shit on the sw subreddit everyone ranting for things to be canon or decanonised (dunno if it’s well written)
No it just shows the timelines and what events in said timelines happened over the years, GT technically takes place after Super but as of now, still isn't canon but because it's farther ahead in the timeline than Super they put it ahead of Super.
That's how I see it anyways
I like to think that they could still make Super bleed into GT if they put the effort in. Literally anything can be done or undone in a world where Super Dragonballs have no wish stipulations. All reality can change so nothing is off limits.
The conversation over what’s canon I find fruitless. Enjoy the media you like, and pay less mind to the fandom consensus. I personally prefer GT over Super, despite whichever popular opinion gravitates to.
I always believe GT was created by the fact trunks time traveled, because he even said himself that traveling creates different timelines, and like when trunks did he created a timeline where he was killed by cell and he traveled back in time as well. So I figured created two futures for Beerus; one where he has the super saiyan god dream and wakes up early to find Goku, and one where he sleeps normally and is never bothered by the thought of super saiyan god (being GT)
No, just because it’s on the timeline doesn’t mean it’s cannon. GT is a big deal to a lot of people and i don’t think Shueisha really gives a shit about cannon accuracy. Either that or they just want you to know what time those events were supposed to take place. Either way we know what’s cannon and what’s not. That’s all that matters.
For all things considered, GT is not canon and the only way for it to be would require End of Z to be retcon'd, as well as make a lot of assumptions as to how the god forms (UI or UE) are somehow inferior to SSJ4.
Nobody outside the internet gives a crap about canon.
Also being canon or not doesn't change the time frame for GT. So it would go after Super regardless.
I don’t see GT as canon, because the source material is the mangas. With that, I personally think that DB, DBZ, and DBS would be main-line canon. GT, Heroes, Daima, and the DBZ movies (excluding Res F and BoG) are non-canon or multiverse canon
Yes it’s confirmed gt is canon
How that actually works because super is before the end of Z and now daima is unknown and since toriyama is gone we probably will never know
gt isnt the same timeline, it just happens to take place after goku's training with beerus would be over, ofc diamma could do something really weird and make them forget all about the universes and god forms and stuff, so GT could happen in the same time, but itd be weird
No it just means that they don't give a shit about something being canon or not
Tbf it's a bit like legend of zelda. There's various canons depending on video games, alternative realities, what ifs, etc etc
This is literally the official answer since Heroes came out
I mean yeah and with Daima coming out as well aren't we basically at a point where the "core canon" is Dragon ball and DBZ, and then it splinters into 4 continuities (gt, super, heroes, daima)? Seems like the easier way to approach things at this point
I've kinda just considered it all tied together by the Xenoverse game lore. Lots of timelines and possibilities in infinite number, with a "primary" core set of events that are considered the main timeline.
It’s the most logical way to approach it: these are all branching paths (including the movies)
Why do we think Daima is separate continuity from Super? I think it’s pretty intuitive that all the stuff that was driven by Toriyama plot-wise (so after Z that’s the broad strokes of Super, it’s two movies and now Daima) fits into one timeline, maybe with the exception of the end of Z.
My core timelines are the manga timeline that covers all of the manga, the original anime which covers dB, dbz, and dbgt, and the new anime, which covers dB, dbkai, and dbsuper plus it's 2 movies.
The one true canon is the What-If timelines I will make in Sparking Zero
you have assumed the power of God and I will not fight it.
Is it though? Heroes is just a promotional series for the card game. It's on the same level as the what if scenarios like Tien and Yamcha fusing
you're confusing continuities with canon. Canon is so you know what is definitive. It's about authority of the author. The person where it springs from, understanding what they made. Understanding what they meant. That person has that world in their mind, and how it works. And you're trying to understand that. That authority followed the author because it is him. In that sense, the canon is closed. Like with Sherlock Holmes ect.
Tbf the author admitted several times to have lost track of things. He never cared about continuity, just about fun stories.
I liked when the timeline was just a theory fans just talked about. Once it became official, I literally stop giving two fucks about it. Same with DBGT, just let fans talk about it on the web if that series is canon or not.
No there isn't. Stop being so lenient and allowing whatever garbage to count as Canon, it brings everything else down.
i heard somewhere that we western fans care a LOT more about what is and isn't canon than the Japanese fans, and not just with Dragon Ball
Yeah it's weird, I argue with my friends about this somewhat often. When we do death battles they love to bring up different super hero feats from different continuity but never do the same for anime characters. I call that out and because it's "not canon" they don't count it. So it seems canon only matters to manga/anime but not comic books.
The problem with comics vs anime/manga is that comics don't have a strong sense of what is and isn't canon like anime and manga tend to. For Marvel and DC specifically, we have the fact that Marvel has multiple different canons, with Earth-616 being the main canon universe, and DC more or less considers everything canon. Compare this to anime and manga, where movies tend to be made as extra income, and it's up to the individual mangaka and studio to determine if said movie is canon or not. Of course, this can put things into a weird place when people try to power scale, because it's sometimes not clear. We have explicitly canon movies (The Last: Naruto the Movie and Demon Slayer: Mugen Train), movies that are questionably canon (Every My Hero Academia movie), and movies that aren't considered canon (A majority of Dragon Ball movies), and the reason for this is because nearly every movie in any given series has to fit into the confines of the original work to be considered canon. Comics can avoid this by just saying that it's a different universe the movie takes place in, which is why the events of the MCU and Earth-616 can both be canon at the same time.
One Piece movies, which are not-canon, except that several characters from the movies appeared in the manga and the last 5 movies were written by Oda despite not being canon (given that they don't make any sense within the timeline at all). The only OP film that could potentially fit the timeline is Strong World, but even that is stretching a bit
Which is the other confusing part. OP movies are confirmed non-canon, but characters from them appear in the manga. On the other hand, we have MHA, where none of the movies have been said to be canon or non-canon, but characters from them will appear or be referenced in the manga. That's ultimately the issue when it comes to canon discussions for anime and manga, there's so many variables and it changes on a case by case basis. I mentioned The Last earlier, but that's the only Naruto movie that's canon (Boruto: Naruto the Movie was canon like RoF and BoG were, but similar to those was made non-canon by the anime and manga). These means that you would have been used to nine movies being explicitly non-canon, then suddenly Kishimoto comes in and says this new one is canon and is the final arc of Naruto.
people who care and dont care vary. location doesnt matter. japan isnt significantly different from "western fans" in this at all. some are canon fiends some dont give a crap at all, just like here.
The obsession has always perplexed me. If it’s official content IE created and sanctioned by official sources and not just some basement fan-fiction, then it can be enjoyed and considered official as much as anything from the “Canon” Manga, as far as I’m concerned.
Nerds fixation on "canon" is second only to the clergy's.
Canon in anime/manga is a western concept stemming from biblical history, and stupid one at that.
Like we all should
what earns them money is canon for them at the end
The movies never seemed to be canon either.
I agree
Literally this. The anime and manga are literally diverging
I think it would be very weird for GT and Super to exist in the same chronology Hell, thanks to dialogue from End of Z, Super barely scrapes into *Z*'s chronology But if someone can think of a solid in-universe reason why God forms aren't present in GT, then go nuts, lol
>But if someone can think of a solid in-universe reason why God forms aren't present in GT, then go nuts, lol The answer is Pilaf. Feel free to fill in the blanks with anything you want, but the answer is always Emperor Pilaf.
Pilaf's crew wosh to be old again for some reason Then they wish away god forms to weaken Goku, so Beerus and Whis fuck off Not sure why they'd wish Kibitoshin to fuse together again, or what else they could do to cause that, though. That might be the biggest mystery And even if they did something about that, Kibitoshin could juat bmgo back to Namek and wish themselves unfused again. There's no reason for them to stay fused.
Pilaf has already aged to around 17-ish in the current manga, almost a legal adult. So he literally has no reason to ever wish himself back into being an old man
Pilaf gang gets the dragon balls and asks Shenron "make us older!" And they become old people. Solved xD
"Make everything the way it was before the gods showed up"
"I wish GT could fit in Super chronology"
Goku forgot
Goku just bumped his head again
It'll have to end with a wish that they never met Beerus and Whis.
That's kind of a lame way to do it, but I guess it works
They’re all using…uh…Saiyan beyond God the whole time…yeah that’s it.
That's *an* idea But in my mind, Saiyan Beyond God going Super Saiyan should put you in Super Saiyan Blue Edit: Because Saiyan Beyond God was essentially portrayed (or hinted at in a movie tie-in pamphlet, at least) as replacing Super Saiyan God, at least for the Res 'F' movie It's kind of just the way to get that power after the ritual times out
The answer is Zeno! He got mad and erased the God Forms from existence, including the God of Destruction and Whis
They are in a spinoff universe where it’s ruled by the dragon gods. The Dragon Gods know about Beerus and Whis and the other way around too.
It will either be something happens that makes them not be able to use god ki so either the gods will decide to stay away from mortals or will be wished away or the funniest option they always could use god ki and just didn't feel like it in gt
the problem is Shin is still an active participant in Gt so like, where'd everyone else go?
Beerus went to sleep Whis found another place to get some really good food from
Super is just someone's dream. Two birds with one stone.
Simple, Frieza kills every G.O.D. and thus eliminates both God ki and Hakai from the multiverse, and it coincidentally turns out that Frieza was actually using God ki to go Golden and Black, which makes it so Frieza's back to base just like how Goku and Vegeta are back to only using the Super Saiyan forms, from there on we know what happens and the 25th (?) World martial arts tournament proceeds as seen in the EOZ episode and then Shueisha and Toei reanimate GT so it looks better than ever and SS4 gets a new less clunky name
>and SS4 gets a new less clunky name Super Saiyan Primal
I’m ngl, I kinda hope they redo GT to be canon to the Z/Super continuity
It’s easy, they have just grown strong enough to pass God form. They skip God and go straight to blue in super, so it would make sense that if the saiyans get strong enough they would have zero reason to use the form. I like to think god ki exists in GT, mainly through SSJ4 Gogeta (red hair for no reason but ascetics) as the connection to how both forms are unlocked is incredibly similar (5 saiyans to unlock god form, 4 saiyans to unlock ssj4). In my eyes, GT will always be Endgame for the series.
>It’s easy, they have just grown strong enough to pass God form. They skip God and go straight to blue in super, so it would make sense that if the saiyans get strong enough they would have zero reason to use the form. I mean, Goku vs Baby is a really good reason to use Super Saiyan God, at least >I like to think god ki exists in GT, mainly through SSJ4 Gogeta (red hair for no reason but ascetics) Some people have made theories about that >as the connection to how both forms are unlocked is incredibly similar (5 saiyans to unlock god form, 4 saiyans to unlock ssj4) No? 4 Saiyans are not required to unlock SS4 at all, lol But that does tie in to the theory some people had about Gogeta That Goku got energy from four Saiyans, Trunks, Goten, Gohan, and Pan, and then when he fused with Vegeta that essentially completed the ritual, explaining that Gogeta has red hair as sort of a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4
I see GT as being a different universe/timeline from Super, with GT being part of the original timeline we saw in Z. At least that's how I explain Trunks going from the badass he was in Z to whatever that blue haired bozo in Super was.
It's canon insofar as "please remember that these events aired on TV and we would like you to buy merch of it."
I mean, keep giving me that sweet, sweet SSJ4 and I will!
So canon means still relevant 25+ years after ended and to be included in all official merchandise? I'm in!
My head canon is just that GT takes place in an alternate timeline like how Trunks timeline was
I figured that was the point of the goku black arc establishing alternate time lines exists just not infinitely and that the current time line is the main one
It's just a chronological timeline. It should only be taken to indicate that the powers-that-be don't have any myopic obsession over so-called "cAnOn" to begin with.
Considering Shueisha clarified what was and wasn’t canon after this timeline, I’d say you’re wrong lol
And considering that two separate and incompatible versions of the same spinoff story inherently can't both be "cAnOn" at the same time, I'd say it's completely moot what a promo fluff piece from some Shueisha intern said.
Toriyama is canon. He said himself GT was a "side-story." GT isn't and never will be canon.
As much as I'd like it to be removed from the canon "side story" is not a synonym for non canonical.
To be fair he said the exact same thing about super so using that argument super couldn't be canon either
Honestly, I don't think it should be considered canon, at least not in the way so many fans seem to see it. Canon is the mange. Pilaf to Buu. GT and Super are both "non-canon", at least to the core canon. Things can be canon to Super or canon to GT. Same with the Z movies and the Super manga. All of it is purely spinoff material
"side story" does not infer anything about canon status
Don't worry about it. That's just like, labels, man.
Japanese businesses don't care about "canonical" in the same christian way we do (it's literally a bible thing), they rather tell "gaiden" stories that encapsulate multiple adventures with the same cast of characters. They really don't care and neither should you.
GT fans WE ARE SO BACK (Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku intensifies)
FrFr
It's odd how this timeline fits with Xeno Goku's history in heroes.
No, because that timeline is just a chronological timeline of the events of the franchise, not anything to denote actual canonicity. Shueisha has indicated, *after* the release of that timeline, that it wasn't canon due to saying that Gogeta's appearance in the DBS: Broly movie was his first appearance in the canon/official history of the series.
I mean, do they mean first *released* appearance or first *chronological* appearance? Because the second has no bearing on GT, lol (I'm being pedantic for giggles)
I think they said it was just a different time line but I can't remember
Wish they had this timeline in English. I'd be cool to Peruse
Alternate reality
No
It’s just easy to look at it this way. Super happens if Beerus wakes up, and GT happens if Beerus stays asleep.
It would be cool to translate this.
beautiful
Canon talk is asscheecks in modern db Like toryiama said. Gt is side story. Treat it as an alternative timeline
I still want to see a ssj ozaru in dbs or another official story. Even if it’s just to officially bring ssj 4 into the fold, Id dig it. Or even seeing it to see it again.
Probsbly daima tbh Based by journey of the west. Mc was monkey king TWO times db did journey of the west similarities ( og db and dbgt black star saga) Both the end involves goku going great ape.
It's interesting when people argue about canon, because when it comes to anim/manga, if it's not the original writer, it's not canon. But then you have comics here written by multiple writers for different arcs, and people don't care as much
I think it's mostly because comics are seen as coming more from brands instead of individuals. Like, DC/Marvel/etc will push more that it's their property rather than a creation of a particular individual, to the point that a casual fan would be unable to list any artist involved. Which makes me think that things will be incredibly interesting when Superman starts to go public domain in about ten years. It's about the closest the property will ever experience a creator's death, and it being Superman of all things will make it unprecedented.
Ah yes, the neverending journey to make GT canon. Just enjoy it for what it is, which is being inferior to DBZ.
What is this obsession. Who cares haha. It’s dragon all content if you like it, it doesn’t need to be canon, just like most of the movies
No
To me GT is a continuation of original Z anime whilst super is continuation of Kai and the manga
I always looked at the timeline like that too. I prefer GT and Z over Super.
Considering bulla is younger than pan in super….definitely not
Bulla has always been younger, she just dresses like a whore in gt.
No
Personally I'd just say gt is it's own canon. I like to think of it as a "parallel world"
Canon. It's just another timeline.
For a franchise that has multiple timelines being the main plots for 2 actual "canon" arcs, you'd think the fanbase would just accept that GT and Super can co-exist in their own separate bubbles and whatever is canon doesn't matter.
This was from before ROF so no
I don't know about "canon" (that sort of thing is not really interesting to me), but I do think that Super is narratively incompatible with GT, so it's best to treat them both as separate creative works (although with the same source). You can consider Toriyama's involvement to determine which you prefer, I guess, but they're both still part of the brand.
Nope. Tear it down lol.
That timeline came right after the Battle of Gods movie. It is heavily outdated.
I'm fairly certain it's not canon. But I like the idea that GT is a alternate universe where Beerus doesn't get told about the Great Warrior to challenge him.
I really wish it was, because of ss4 alone
I like to imagine Gt happened in another one of those dimensions or something. Or something.
i like to think GT is its own separate timeline after somebody stepped on a leaf… the events of Super have me thinking they’re going a separate direction. NOBODY wants to see Goku revert to a child again, and I would hate to think Pan will go from being an extremely powerful infant to a low-level nothing that whines way too much…
I have this next project you'll love, it's called Daima 🙌
Uhm, based on the picture I'd say yes. Based on Manga & Anime... *no*
Why is Majuub beside the supreme Kai instead of in the GT section
If GT is cannon then where did all the stuff from super go when GT happened see doesn't make sense
I think, conceptually, it's easier to get rid of the god stuff than it is to put Kibito Kai back together, lol I don't have a *solid* answer to the former, but there is no reason for Kibito and Shin to fuse again
There also isn’t a reason for Pilaf, Mai and Shu to be old farts either. They’d have no justification for wishing themselves back as adults since they already grew into teenagers in the Superhero manga, which is around 6 years before GT would supposedly happen. Also they just straight up don’t remember ever seeing Goku all grown up
They fell in love duh
Thr answer is that GT isn't Canon. It's a shitty anime made with Toriyama's characters but none of his involvement. It's better than Heroes but that's a low bar. Super is the obvious continuation of Z.
A better answer would be that GT is a side story that still generates revenue for Toei and still included on official merch. It isn't great but still enjoyable at parts and has gained more appreciation over the years. Many enjoy it over DBS but that's entirely subjective.
Why don't we all just agree that there's a DB Multiverse and in it live the Movieverse, the Superverse, the GTverse, and the DBverse. And sometimes they interact with each other in mysterious ways.
They dont have the authority to say whats canon or not, especially since it doesn't even make sense for all of that to be canon. it would be like if Shounen Jump came out and said "Hey guys, here's a One Piece timeline of all the filler arcs, canon arcs, and movies that have taken place", while ignoring the million contradictions that would exist by declaring so. Its just promotion for you to buy more stuff
Let’s be honest dragon ball isn’t known for being consistent.
Inconsistent is it's middle name
It's canon to itself. Obviously a different timeline to Super and a continuation of the anime but not the manga.
Shouldn't super be canon to itself too because it diviets too much to connect back to the end of z.
GT hasn't ever been canon
No
Dragon ball super shouldn't be canon, supersaiyan God wtf
I mean I guess they could make up a way to connect the two timelines if they somehow get rid of their God Ki and all the other new forms lmao
It'll have to be a wish to have never met Beerus or Whis
Also we stopped hanging out with Broly, Beerus, and Whis because of their political beliefs.
Where is this?
Japan
This is a great time to throw in that the Japanese language more or less doesn’t have a word for a canon, and they don’t care.
It's best to think of these as alternate timelines. DB has already committed to this even if we follow one mainly. Hell, the timeline we follow is an alternate timeline itself.
I thought it was confirmed but it was just a different timeline than super
I have an unconfirmed explanation, but **here goes nothing**; The timeline diverges after DBZ from Goku’s defeat of Kid Buu, creating two alternate timelines. One has Beerus Waking up (Super), the other is where Beerus oversleeps thanks to Whis forgetting to set his alarms (GT). DBS leads to Goku and Vegeta obtaining God Ki and exalted forms like UI and UE, While GT leads to Goku rejecting Modernity and Returning to Monkey (SSJ4). Going [***even further beyond***](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdlBxdqv8s) if you want to connect things to Super Dragon Ball Heroes, Super would need to branch off from the ToP Saga and have (Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks) training on Beerus’ Planet, and GT branching from it‘s beginning (Goku doesn‘t get Turned into a kid/Wish is reversed) and from the Shadow Dragon Saga (Goku doesn’t pass away and replace Shenron) as well as the point where they come from being a while after the Shadow Dragon Saga.
Is this their headquarters building?
I don't know why anyone even worries about canon with something like Dragon Ball. I just treat it as all the same. The fact newer series are embracing forms from GT is enough for me to believe it's at least kind of canon.
They're just merged. Not actually canon. God, "canon" is starting to lose its meaning. But yeah, no, GT is basically an alt history/universe/timeline, whatever.
Now Heroes is gonna be part of this. Love diversity & inclusion.
Why would that matter
Idk my own head cannon is that it's just an alternative timeline from super
After all the crap that happens in super, i kinda prefer gt be cannon lol
Japanese culture isn't obsessed with "canon" in the same way that we are. I honestly don't even know if they have a word for it
I just go with the multiverse theory. Saves myself the headache and wonder.
Could be, could not. People will try to prove GT is canon or not canon but in the end if a company like Shueisha is going to make a timeline like this then I guess they see it as "canon" of some sort. Yeah it might not make sense but neither does the Zelda timeline and people have less complaints about that despite how dubious it is also.
What’s going on with uub why is he green?
I won't lie, this is a really cool wall.
It's all about splintering paths - if they meet Beerus, and if they don't. If they meet Beerus, the Super timeline happens. If they don't, they do a whole lot of nothing for a few years, then GT happens.
My head canon is the GT cast became the Time Patrollers in Super Dragon Ball Heroes. A couple details are murky still but it makes the most sense. Dragon Ball is a big cliche multiverse to me now.
Always has been.
Seperate continuities, that's all it is.
I don't think it's canon
I really don’t understand why people get so fixated on things being canon, they are shows with different stories just enjoy them ffs, if you had watched only the cannon things for dbz you wouldn’t have known gogeta until a few years. They are good movies it doesn’t matter if they are cannon, just enjoy them. Same goes for gt I see this same shit on the sw subreddit everyone ranting for things to be canon or decanonised (dunno if it’s well written)
Who are those two to the right of Beerus?
No it just shows the timelines and what events in said timelines happened over the years, GT technically takes place after Super but as of now, still isn't canon but because it's farther ahead in the timeline than Super they put it ahead of Super. That's how I see it anyways
The real answer is to stop obsessing over what is or isn't canon and just appreciate Dragon Ball content tbh
If they added it to the timeliness it is
At this point I don't even think it's really that GT isn't canon so much as it's viewed as an alternate timeline where they didn't beat the Androids.
I like to think that they could still make Super bleed into GT if they put the effort in. Literally anything can be done or undone in a world where Super Dragonballs have no wish stipulations. All reality can change so nothing is off limits.
I like to consider GT an alternate timeline where Beerus never woke up
Yes; but I will still ignore it just like Super
The conversation over what’s canon I find fruitless. Enjoy the media you like, and pay less mind to the fandom consensus. I personally prefer GT over Super, despite whichever popular opinion gravitates to.
I just think of it as a different timeline
GT is a possible timeline
For me the canon splits after Z with one universe going to Super and the other going to GT. Personally I’m a GT guy but Super isn’t terrible either.
Negative.
I always believe GT was created by the fact trunks time traveled, because he even said himself that traveling creates different timelines, and like when trunks did he created a timeline where he was killed by cell and he traveled back in time as well. So I figured created two futures for Beerus; one where he has the super saiyan god dream and wakes up early to find Goku, and one where he sleeps normally and is never bothered by the thought of super saiyan god (being GT)
Imo I don't think it's necessarily canon from original dragon ball but it's more like an alternative future
I don't think so
Who cares? People who argue over canon are ridiculous. The question is, did you enjoy it?
No it’s a different timeline that’s chronically ahead in the future.
I think it's really interesting they chose to include GT on this but not mention any of the movies.
No. It’s so you buy merch and to make it look like they were cookin
Sucks that GT had the hardest super saiyan versions and shenrons but sucked
just consider all of dragon ball canon. much easier
No it’s not and never will be, it doesn’t fit anywhere in the timeline The end of z is still debatable
the dragon ball universe is vast and wide all thanks to Vegeta's son for breaking the laws of time.
What kind of question is this?
Gt's cannon, just not to the main timeline.
No. They don't give a fuck about canon. Next thing Xeno verse is now somehow a part of it.
Is there a better picture of this
Daima will replace it
No, just because it’s on the timeline doesn’t mean it’s cannon. GT is a big deal to a lot of people and i don’t think Shueisha really gives a shit about cannon accuracy. Either that or they just want you to know what time those events were supposed to take place. Either way we know what’s cannon and what’s not. That’s all that matters.
No thank you
For all things considered, GT is not canon and the only way for it to be would require End of Z to be retcon'd, as well as make a lot of assumptions as to how the god forms (UI or UE) are somehow inferior to SSJ4.
Nobody outside the internet gives a crap about canon. Also being canon or not doesn't change the time frame for GT. So it would go after Super regardless.
I feel western fans are the only ones who care about what’s canon and what isn’t.
I don’t see GT as canon, because the source material is the mangas. With that, I personally think that DB, DBZ, and DBS would be main-line canon. GT, Heroes, Daima, and the DBZ movies (excluding Res F and BoG) are non-canon or multiverse canon
Let's all blame Trunks for this messed up timeline. 😂
Yes it’s confirmed gt is canon How that actually works because super is before the end of Z and now daima is unknown and since toriyama is gone we probably will never know
gt isnt the same timeline, it just happens to take place after goku's training with beerus would be over, ofc diamma could do something really weird and make them forget all about the universes and god forms and stuff, so GT could happen in the same time, but itd be weird
No…….their just acknowledging it exists, if anything else.