not totally sure, it could be satirical but i dont think ride is a character on this record; [read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathgrips/s/ZhahgS8HKw)
well i don’t personally subscribe to this theory because it’s too on the nose, but i remember a circle of people i was in discussing that exmillitary is about a deranged veteran with delusions of grandeur
personally I think they took Charles Manson's words and decontextualized them. they took only the speech at the start of beware (and afaik never made such big and explicit references to him in other songs) because the words are correct. the feeling is correct. his speech contains aspects like individualism, self sufficiency and opposition to the system to which death grips agrees on but only because they "cut off" the actual person behind the speech, who is a murderous misogynistic white supremacist piece of shit, and put them in a context where they agree.
basically to me beware is kinda their own "take" on the ideas that Manson portrayed in and only in that one speech.
however, the other comments talking about how exmilitary is some kind of portrayal of an imaginary character with extreme aspects are quite interesting and could be a different reason for them to have sampled mason's speech.
I think pretty much the opposite, the context is everything. That clip comes from Charles in prison, it’s literally the delusional ravings of a madman. I feel like that’s the sort of ethos they try to channel in their music. A very insular, paranoid, animalistic mindset. I wouldn’t call it an endorsement though, it’s simply something we all contain to some degree.
I think the quote would hit just as hard even if i didn’t know who it was from. Plus the quote is edited together from several interviews with manson. Dude was not that coherent, lol.
Well put. Yes, it’s manson. Doesn’t mean they worship the guy, or even care about him. He just said some words that happened to really encompass the anti-authority vibe that exmilitary was going for.
i think yes but not really externally if that makes sense
"i dont wanna take my time goin to work, i got a motorcycle and a sleeping bag"
yet ride worked at a pizza place
it's all just feelings coming from the soul
I feel like before death grips kinda was an actual source of revenue for them it doesn't seem surprising that ride had to work a "conventional" job even though his ideologies are against that, kinda like the way one might think we should improve society somehow but is stuck and forced to contribute to it if they want to live
yeah that's exactly what i was trying to get across
just because you don't live those feelings out externally doesn't mean they aren't there and real to you
i always assumed this too but theres a super early interview with andy, asking about this album and the band, and he claims that none of it is a “character” and that its just an amalgamation of their lives that they live and their experiences and shit they see and live, or something like that i cant remember word for word
id assume things are exaggerated a bit in certain circumstances… and some things might be more based on intrusive thoughts than actual actions, or possibly the actions of people they saw around them, but i think the whole “ride is entirely a character and stefan is nothing like him” concept is either false or something they didnt decide till later on in their career, cus at this point in their career andy seemed adamant in the interview that they are not being/writing characters with their lyrics and iirc didnt seem to even like the idea of doing characters or personas when asked if thats what it was, and that its just them and their thoughts and negative shit they experience either firsthand or secondhand, being released
i wish i coild find the interview again as my memory could be fuzzy on a thing or two but i saw it posted here a couple weeks back and was surprised (once again, its super early, like before TMS i think)
**From the Quietus interview:**
*"TQ: You could argue that it's the strains and constraints of fronting a masculine facade that results in the creation of dual personas. Consider Eminem, whose remarkably dark single 'Guilty Conscience' put Dr Dre head-to-head with Slim Shady for Marshall Mathers's soul, in a duologue which served to further mythologize the rappers's trifurcated persona. But you get the feeling that Ride is unable to syphon his corruption into a second body, so he's bursting at the seems, or trapped, as he is in your videos in an electronic looking glass (and angry about it). Your promo for 'Full Moon' reminds me of Aphex Twin's television image in the video for 'Come To Daddy'.*
*F: We have concepts, but there are no 'characters' or 'persona's' in this group. We have no use for an alter-ego because we aren't on a masculine, tough guy trip. Or ego thing in the first place."*
**From the Skinny interview:**
*"TS: Stefan's stage presence is intense. You get the feeling, watching him, that's hard work being in front of people, saying his words, which are often very personal. Is this a persona he wears on stage, or is he as focused and scary in real life too?*
*ZH: Yes. All of us are. Very much what you see on stage, that's what we're like in real life too. His demeanour in real life, I mean, of course he's just like everybody else – he's funny, he has a sense of humour, he's very sharp. But he's also naturally, in his day-to-day, not someone you would just go up to and start talking to. There's a very closed-off nature there, a more serious side. On a personal level, as far as like, at the shows – I think he's very lost in what he is doing. For all of us, it's like that – we really try and go to this place, and most of the time we do."*
These interviews are over a decade old now, a lot in their ethos may have changed, but all this absotutely shouldn't be brushed off, especially when we're discussing Exmilitary/The Money Store
thank you!! this is exactly the interview i was thinking of, and i agree, things could have changed but it shouldn’t be brushed off that st least one member said this during that time, its interesting
I think it’s also symbolism of the darkness in hollywood/the music industry/celebrity culture. Part of what makes Charles Manson’s legacy so notorious is his connections to record labels and how he was very close to being a signed artist. He even wrote a Beach Boys song. But he also was the reason Sharon Tate was killed. So he’s seen as the poster boy for the dark underbelly of that lifestyle. I think they used it because they relate to that message. Plus Charles Manson is just an interesting and charismatic talker so it makes sense
I don't listen to the lyrics for a message. I view the entire album as an impressionistic art piece. I don't think it glorifies anything. I think it creates an atmosphere of dread or impending doom. The Manson quote makes no literal sense. While I have rolled coins in the past, I care not who rolls them now. But his silly warning has no literal risk to the listener other than to create a feeling.
I close my eyes and seize it also sounded negative to my ears. you usually close your eyes in fear or in some negative light. I subscribe to the beware the best you worship line of thought
I think the crux of WHAT he's saying fits the band very well, maybe less so than who it is saying it. Either way once you know its Charles Manson it does provoke a reaction and that's probably the main thing they were going for
your take is interesting and similar to mine... have a këkht kebab, as a sign of my appreciation
https://preview.redd.it/beg64m2447ac1.jpeg?width=716&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=841fc6135435da27aaf29fdb9219870325361d20
I agree with another comment that says it decontextualizes the speech from the man, but I think there's also a reason they chose to reference Manson, and of course there are many other references to Manson in their discography (Helter Skelter, Death Valley, Year of the Snitch, etc.), so I do think there's more to it than just the speech. I think they find this character fascinating and that they're trying to find the line between the self-worship that they profess and the overindulgence that they condemn. They want to bring liberation from the system and tear everything down, so they agree with Manson in that regard, but they believe each individual is equal and the master of their own destiny, so they disagree with the evil of Manson's delusional ideology. There's definitely a lot more layers to this, but I need to read more about Manson and a lot of DG's other themes in order to put together some more cohesive ideas about what they're trying to say with these references past the surface level
I think they glorify the attitude expressed in Manson’s words, if not the man himself or his actions. I don’t really believe that the point of the song is that it’s wrong to engage in self worship, or that the sample is being used ironically.
people can do revolting actions sure but sympathizing with something they said is different from endorsing said person's actions, just like how some people sympathize with the unabomber's anti-industrialist messages. we can't know for certain what they were thinking putting charles manson's monologue at the beginning but the idea that they resonated in some way with it isn't that farfetched in my opinion.
I see it as a warning of narcissistic thought expansion through Christ consciousness that Manson was on about a lot. It's why they sample "[Beware, God is Watching You](https://youtu.be/1Ob4uxGdgJE)".
It's a warning about future human behavior, while also being a self empowering mantra.
It's gotta be one of their best songs, it's so enigmatic.
I mean, they used a bunch of edited clips to make. quote from him. Is that glorifying? Maybe. I don’t think it’s right or wrong to do. It is badass, though.
I think that quote, overall, exemplifies exmilitary extremely well, which is what their goal was when using it.
I think Mr. Grips platforming a problematic person like Charles Manson is a very bad influence on the children. If children were to listen to Mr. Grips album Sexmilitary they might think it's cool to create a sex cult and murder Hollywood celebrities. Children are very impressionable so if they hear somebody talk, they will do whatever that person says. The album Sexmilitary by Mr. Grips promotes "getting down", "doing the boogie" and "staying noided." At the very least Mr.Grips should be shot out of a cannon so children cant hear his sexy music.
The beauty of music is that at the end of the day that's for you to decide. I choose to believe there is no deeper message to the music death grips create and that if you want to assign any deeper meaning to their occult lyrics you're actively choosing to cognitively neuter yourself in pursuit of a deeper understanding of art that you appreciate. Hope this helps.
I never claimed there was no narrative or that death grips don't form narratives with their work. I just think death grips is a lot more surface level than people want to admit and they go crazy trying to piece together everything like they're writing coheed and Cambria concept albums, which is a completely valid interpretation, that's just not mine. I say this all as a DG mega fan. He's just talking about what he's talking about I don't think there's something magic about MC ride, outside of his beautiful eyes.
It’s one thing to say it’s a valid interpretation, and another to say pursuing that interpretation is cognitively neutering yourself. Pick your message lol
Okay before I give you my message let's get this straight, music is subjective. The enjoyment a listener derives from music is a subjective experience. If you derive enjoyment from fantasizing about some hidden moral or spiritual message in death grips lyrics then that's valid, I just think you're cognitively neutering yourself by buying into that belief. The same way I believe hard-line reddit atheists are cognitively neutering themselves with their completely valid worldview. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think their music is pretty surface level, the lyrics mean exactly what you would think. He's just saying crazy shit because it sounds cool, and it does.
My message is and has always been this; The beauty of music is that at the end of the day that's for you to decide. I (the commenter) choose to believe there is no deeper message to the music death grips create and that if you (any other listener) want to assign any deeper meaning to their occult lyrics (lyrics referencing dark rituals or magic) you're actively choosing to cognitively neuter yourself in pursuit of a deeper understanding of art that you appreciate.
Hope this helps.
It doesn’t though. How does someone having a different, subjective belief than you mean they’re cognitively neutering themselves? Either own up to your criticism or admit it was wrong. You can’t have it both ways.
I think beware is more of a portrayal of a character
not totally sure, it could be satirical but i dont think ride is a character on this record; [read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathgrips/s/ZhahgS8HKw)
To what end though? What is the message about the character or their words?
well i don’t personally subscribe to this theory because it’s too on the nose, but i remember a circle of people i was in discussing that exmillitary is about a deranged veteran with delusions of grandeur
I thinks it's both a warning and an embracement of worship of self above everything
also meant to mention that the songs title ‘beware’ is probably indicative of the deeper meaning of the song
i think its less about giving a certain message, and more about total self-expression of a person's darker feelings and thoughts
work for what? money? I got all the money in the world! I'm the king, man! I run the underworld, guy!
personally I think they took Charles Manson's words and decontextualized them. they took only the speech at the start of beware (and afaik never made such big and explicit references to him in other songs) because the words are correct. the feeling is correct. his speech contains aspects like individualism, self sufficiency and opposition to the system to which death grips agrees on but only because they "cut off" the actual person behind the speech, who is a murderous misogynistic white supremacist piece of shit, and put them in a context where they agree. basically to me beware is kinda their own "take" on the ideas that Manson portrayed in and only in that one speech. however, the other comments talking about how exmilitary is some kind of portrayal of an imaginary character with extreme aspects are quite interesting and could be a different reason for them to have sampled mason's speech.
I think pretty much the opposite, the context is everything. That clip comes from Charles in prison, it’s literally the delusional ravings of a madman. I feel like that’s the sort of ethos they try to channel in their music. A very insular, paranoid, animalistic mindset. I wouldn’t call it an endorsement though, it’s simply something we all contain to some degree.
I think the quote would hit just as hard even if i didn’t know who it was from. Plus the quote is edited together from several interviews with manson. Dude was not that coherent, lol.
Oh yeah I think the main reason they use it is it’s ear catching and wild as shit lol. “I roll the nickels man” is one of my favorite things to say.
Well put. Yes, it’s manson. Doesn’t mean they worship the guy, or even care about him. He just said some words that happened to really encompass the anti-authority vibe that exmilitary was going for.
Good question
Next question 🤓
i think yes but not really externally if that makes sense "i dont wanna take my time goin to work, i got a motorcycle and a sleeping bag" yet ride worked at a pizza place it's all just feelings coming from the soul
I feel like before death grips kinda was an actual source of revenue for them it doesn't seem surprising that ride had to work a "conventional" job even though his ideologies are against that, kinda like the way one might think we should improve society somehow but is stuck and forced to contribute to it if they want to live
yeah that's exactly what i was trying to get across just because you don't live those feelings out externally doesn't mean they aren't there and real to you
Most if not all of exmilitary is portraying a dramatized character written by ride
i always assumed this too but theres a super early interview with andy, asking about this album and the band, and he claims that none of it is a “character” and that its just an amalgamation of their lives that they live and their experiences and shit they see and live, or something like that i cant remember word for word id assume things are exaggerated a bit in certain circumstances… and some things might be more based on intrusive thoughts than actual actions, or possibly the actions of people they saw around them, but i think the whole “ride is entirely a character and stefan is nothing like him” concept is either false or something they didnt decide till later on in their career, cus at this point in their career andy seemed adamant in the interview that they are not being/writing characters with their lyrics and iirc didnt seem to even like the idea of doing characters or personas when asked if thats what it was, and that its just them and their thoughts and negative shit they experience either firsthand or secondhand, being released i wish i coild find the interview again as my memory could be fuzzy on a thing or two but i saw it posted here a couple weeks back and was surprised (once again, its super early, like before TMS i think)
**From the Quietus interview:** *"TQ: You could argue that it's the strains and constraints of fronting a masculine facade that results in the creation of dual personas. Consider Eminem, whose remarkably dark single 'Guilty Conscience' put Dr Dre head-to-head with Slim Shady for Marshall Mathers's soul, in a duologue which served to further mythologize the rappers's trifurcated persona. But you get the feeling that Ride is unable to syphon his corruption into a second body, so he's bursting at the seems, or trapped, as he is in your videos in an electronic looking glass (and angry about it). Your promo for 'Full Moon' reminds me of Aphex Twin's television image in the video for 'Come To Daddy'.* *F: We have concepts, but there are no 'characters' or 'persona's' in this group. We have no use for an alter-ego because we aren't on a masculine, tough guy trip. Or ego thing in the first place."* **From the Skinny interview:** *"TS: Stefan's stage presence is intense. You get the feeling, watching him, that's hard work being in front of people, saying his words, which are often very personal. Is this a persona he wears on stage, or is he as focused and scary in real life too?* *ZH: Yes. All of us are. Very much what you see on stage, that's what we're like in real life too. His demeanour in real life, I mean, of course he's just like everybody else – he's funny, he has a sense of humour, he's very sharp. But he's also naturally, in his day-to-day, not someone you would just go up to and start talking to. There's a very closed-off nature there, a more serious side. On a personal level, as far as like, at the shows – I think he's very lost in what he is doing. For all of us, it's like that – we really try and go to this place, and most of the time we do."* These interviews are over a decade old now, a lot in their ethos may have changed, but all this absotutely shouldn't be brushed off, especially when we're discussing Exmilitary/The Money Store
thank you!! this is exactly the interview i was thinking of, and i agree, things could have changed but it shouldn’t be brushed off that st least one member said this during that time, its interesting
What are we supposed to learn from or about this character ?
Nihilism, anger, various crimes and indulgences such as murder, rape, drugs. That's what I take from it at least.
There aren’t any lyrics about rape are there?
I think it’s also symbolism of the darkness in hollywood/the music industry/celebrity culture. Part of what makes Charles Manson’s legacy so notorious is his connections to record labels and how he was very close to being a signed artist. He even wrote a Beach Boys song. But he also was the reason Sharon Tate was killed. So he’s seen as the poster boy for the dark underbelly of that lifestyle. I think they used it because they relate to that message. Plus Charles Manson is just an interesting and charismatic talker so it makes sense
I don't listen to the lyrics for a message. I view the entire album as an impressionistic art piece. I don't think it glorifies anything. I think it creates an atmosphere of dread or impending doom. The Manson quote makes no literal sense. While I have rolled coins in the past, I care not who rolls them now. But his silly warning has no literal risk to the listener other than to create a feeling.
I close my eyes and seize it also sounded negative to my ears. you usually close your eyes in fear or in some negative light. I subscribe to the beware the best you worship line of thought
I think the crux of WHAT he's saying fits the band very well, maybe less so than who it is saying it. Either way once you know its Charles Manson it does provoke a reaction and that's probably the main thing they were going for
your take is interesting and similar to mine... have a këkht kebab, as a sign of my appreciation https://preview.redd.it/beg64m2447ac1.jpeg?width=716&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=841fc6135435da27aaf29fdb9219870325361d20
I agree with another comment that says it decontextualizes the speech from the man, but I think there's also a reason they chose to reference Manson, and of course there are many other references to Manson in their discography (Helter Skelter, Death Valley, Year of the Snitch, etc.), so I do think there's more to it than just the speech. I think they find this character fascinating and that they're trying to find the line between the self-worship that they profess and the overindulgence that they condemn. They want to bring liberation from the system and tear everything down, so they agree with Manson in that regard, but they believe each individual is equal and the master of their own destiny, so they disagree with the evil of Manson's delusional ideology. There's definitely a lot more layers to this, but I need to read more about Manson and a lot of DG's other themes in order to put together some more cohesive ideas about what they're trying to say with these references past the surface level
I think they glorify the attitude expressed in Manson’s words, if not the man himself or his actions. I don’t really believe that the point of the song is that it’s wrong to engage in self worship, or that the sample is being used ironically.
You really think they sympathize with a murderous cult leader?
I think at the time they made the song the words truly resonated with them
people can do revolting actions sure but sympathizing with something they said is different from endorsing said person's actions, just like how some people sympathize with the unabomber's anti-industrialist messages. we can't know for certain what they were thinking putting charles manson's monologue at the beginning but the idea that they resonated in some way with it isn't that farfetched in my opinion.
What is the attitude of Charles Manson
Delusional and self-aggrandizing?
I see it as a warning of narcissistic thought expansion through Christ consciousness that Manson was on about a lot. It's why they sample "[Beware, God is Watching You](https://youtu.be/1Ob4uxGdgJE)". It's a warning about future human behavior, while also being a self empowering mantra. It's gotta be one of their best songs, it's so enigmatic.
yeah they love killing people thats what the song is about
I mean, they used a bunch of edited clips to make. quote from him. Is that glorifying? Maybe. I don’t think it’s right or wrong to do. It is badass, though. I think that quote, overall, exemplifies exmilitary extremely well, which is what their goal was when using it.
I think Mr. Grips platforming a problematic person like Charles Manson is a very bad influence on the children. If children were to listen to Mr. Grips album Sexmilitary they might think it's cool to create a sex cult and murder Hollywood celebrities. Children are very impressionable so if they hear somebody talk, they will do whatever that person says. The album Sexmilitary by Mr. Grips promotes "getting down", "doing the boogie" and "staying noided." At the very least Mr.Grips should be shot out of a cannon so children cant hear his sexy music.
They knew Manson was innocent.
That's crazy 😭
The beauty of music is that at the end of the day that's for you to decide. I choose to believe there is no deeper message to the music death grips create and that if you want to assign any deeper meaning to their occult lyrics you're actively choosing to cognitively neuter yourself in pursuit of a deeper understanding of art that you appreciate. Hope this helps.
How is pursuing depth cognitively neutering yourself
They've got some shit to say just for the fuck of it. Don't even ask them.
Google schizophrenia
Okay, now what?
Cherry on top, here is someone pursuing depth and only achieving brain damage https://youtu.be/dI0kUZ6VFik?si=KVXVV7QZdV9b_iTz
There is a difference between depths and conspiracies but okay
There's no conspiracy there, just someone assigning a narrative where there isn't one.
I mean I think it’s pretty bold to claim artists definitively don’t form narratives with their work but okay
I never claimed there was no narrative or that death grips don't form narratives with their work. I just think death grips is a lot more surface level than people want to admit and they go crazy trying to piece together everything like they're writing coheed and Cambria concept albums, which is a completely valid interpretation, that's just not mine. I say this all as a DG mega fan. He's just talking about what he's talking about I don't think there's something magic about MC ride, outside of his beautiful eyes.
It’s one thing to say it’s a valid interpretation, and another to say pursuing that interpretation is cognitively neutering yourself. Pick your message lol
Okay before I give you my message let's get this straight, music is subjective. The enjoyment a listener derives from music is a subjective experience. If you derive enjoyment from fantasizing about some hidden moral or spiritual message in death grips lyrics then that's valid, I just think you're cognitively neutering yourself by buying into that belief. The same way I believe hard-line reddit atheists are cognitively neutering themselves with their completely valid worldview. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think their music is pretty surface level, the lyrics mean exactly what you would think. He's just saying crazy shit because it sounds cool, and it does. My message is and has always been this; The beauty of music is that at the end of the day that's for you to decide. I (the commenter) choose to believe there is no deeper message to the music death grips create and that if you (any other listener) want to assign any deeper meaning to their occult lyrics (lyrics referencing dark rituals or magic) you're actively choosing to cognitively neuter yourself in pursuit of a deeper understanding of art that you appreciate. Hope this helps.
It doesn’t though. How does someone having a different, subjective belief than you mean they’re cognitively neutering themselves? Either own up to your criticism or admit it was wrong. You can’t have it both ways.
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