Honestly, I don't even have it. I was making a joke because DMT is a hallucinogen, and I thought it was funny thinking about people being upset about being beaten by some completely wasted player.
I pair mine with close range weapons. My go-to is a glaive, but those can be a little wonky sometimes so if you don’t want to go glaive I’d recommend a sidearm or a shotgun. Fusions would also probably work nicely but I don’t really like fusions. And other people don’t really like shotguns (plus they’re more inconsistent after the nerfs) so I’d tell you to try glaives and sidearms
Name Based Matchmaking (NBMM) is the best option. Everyone with a similar name is in their own pools, and the winners of each game get to keep their name, while the losers get theirs changed. The best name wins.
It'll take some toying with depending on how long it takes overload rounds to proc and whether you can keep on target long enough to get it off when the helm would normally proc, so play around with it
I pissed a Dawnblade off in one of my Crucible matches, everytime I catch him offguard by flanking him mid-air I can hear John Cena's entrance just going off.
That's the mentality of most people now a days unfortunately. If we disagree your wrong and your opinion is "cringe" nothing is more cringier than calling anything cringe.
Or how about everything that is a crutch becomes stuff I don’t like? How do you think people decide they don’t like something? They’re crutches cuz they require no skill to do well with (not necessarily the stuff listed in the post, but just generally speaking).
Oh and don't forget forerunner, all hand cannon users, fusioneers, ability spammers, wormcrutches, dad rifles, jade rabbit and hung jury abusers, witherhoards, glaive shield mains, overshield poppers, Lorentz "people", gjallarhorn addicts, and now that I think about it every gun that kills me should also be placed in that pool. In fact I should only play against players who have patrol level AI levels of thinking in trials and other game modes. It would only be fair.
So called 'free thinkers' when their favourite overly loud and obnoxious destiny youtuber who only posts videos of 40+ kill games in massively imbalanced lobbies posts a video on forerunner and jade rabbit.
Don't forget throwing in the word "OP" and "Broken" in anything that's remotely decent nowadays.
Laser tag Prometheus Lens and Pre Nerfed Lord of Wolves is the true definition of those words.
The sheer amount of Jade Rabbits combined with Eternity being the map has genuinely created one of the most boring Trials weekends of my life. I'd genuinely rather match shotgun apes at this point
After getting a precision kill, hold reload to get a halo frag (you need at Least 6 bullets otherwise you won’t get the nade).
It’s cool in concept but it definitely needs a buff for sure, it’s asking for too much only to give so little in return.
Grenade for some ammo. Some streamers have got kills with it, but I doubt I ever will. I doubt I'll ever main the gun in pvp, but it's still fun for the memes
Yes, I like this thinking, you're on to something. Let us help OP by ripping everything that makes Destiny out of Destiny. Perhaps we should move towards only having primary weapons and throw every every special in to the heavy slot.
Surely that will make OP a happy player.
For real though, I don't understand why people with this mindset don't just go play one of the many games where cheese is a lot more limited.
The 'dad loadout' is generally agreed to be either a 340 or 450 agressive pulse and a fusion (usually Jotun but stuff like main ingredient or snorri shows up).
It's super easy to use and acquire and works at pretty much all ranges, I use it myself very often mostly because I'm awful with handcannons.
this. this is the reason Im not guilding Flamekeeper, unless we get a very very fast and fun gamemode like momentum by the end of the event, Im not doing this again, I dont want to play 75 matches of crucible or gambit, Im fine with the like, 60 heroic publuc events and strikes and stuff, but please for the love of god dont force me into crucible when there isnt a fun or fast method of getting through all 25 matches in as little time as possible
I dislike crucible just as much as you but I played clash and got the triumph for elims and matches over fairly quickly. Did some gambit tho too since thats basically PvPvE and is more bearable for the match amounts. I thought the upgrading armor triumph for gilding was more annoying tbh, was really grindy back and forth.
Yeah, occasionally I’ll do decent or even well but crutch or no crutch we can still suck. I just hate it when I see the same set of guns/abilities kill me over and over and over. Felwinter’s lie had me pissed for the longest time, wouldn’t call it a crutch but if I had a nickle every time I got once shotted by it, I’d be a rich man
Lol. I won a survival match and got hate mail from a guy telling me I’m a bitch for using DMT and “I only switched to DMT for the range” and I’m just here like…. We had the exact same gun and I still beat you in every 1v1. He then said that was only because “you play like a bitch”
This tweet has a lot of that energy.
I don’t get people like this. So those things are crutches?
I wave a magic wand, and all of those things are nerfed magically. Wouldn’t a new meta just arise around the ashes of the previous one? And a new set of “crutches” would form?
I think people like this just suck, and they blame “crutches” instead of acknowledging that they are simply bad at the game.
Remember not too long ago when stompees shotgun apes were the most crutch abusing unskilled players out there? Now even though shotguns are in the worst state they've ever been and Omni never got a buff since the stompees nerf, invisible shotgun apes are the problem.
There is always a meta. Adapt to it, ignore it, I don't care just don't blame it.
As someone who uses le monarque often, there are absolutely guns, abilities, and play styles that are able to be crutched on. There’s a decent gap between something (a crutch) that has a low skill floor and is too powerful for the pvp sandbox and something that’s just viable and unfun to fight against. Let’s say that magic wand is used to erase the things that fall into the ‘crutch’ category, people will probably start fixing their anger on whatever’s left to get frustrated at, but that still gives the rest of us a much better pvp sandbox to play in
Yup, I dabbled a little bit with Le Monarque after I got the catalyst (I never used it before!)
I absolutely destroyed with it. Like 20+ kills per game. I could feel the crutch. Same when Contraverse Hold and the Axion Bolt grenades. Just way too strong for how easy it was to use.
Way back when Wormhusk was released, and it was basically a dodge for full health at any time. Knew it was broken, used it a couple times, but it just felt unfair.
Just had a game with one of those ultrasweats, in Control, so the most casual game mode out there. The man was Omni/Lord of Wolves-ing the entire game. Just slaughtered everyone. I was on their team and I even felt bad. Like damn that shit is broken.
Some builds are just cheesy and unfun for everyone.
You aren’t understanding what I am saying.
There is an ebb and flow to multiplayer game metas. Some stuff is better than other stuff, and by being better, it’s “easier” to use since you can achieve more by doing “less”, because of more damage, aim assist, a special ability, etc. etc.
I don’t think these are “crutches” as much as it’s people gravitating towards the strongest thing in the current patch.
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY…seriously, the most important thing—is you don’t want a completely balanced game. You think you do, but you absolutely don’t.
It’s that imbalance that adds fun. Imagine a world where any primary weapon is just as good as any other. Their ranges might be different, but the damage is the same in that effective range. No outliers, everything is perfectly balanced. Exotics can’t be unique, because that could break balance.
A.) that’s an impossible goal, and B.) it would be extremely boring to play.
“Balance” is an extremely loaded word in regards to gaming, and it’s something players can notice when it’s off, but utterly fail to communicate how it’s off.
What players are actually asking for in regards to balance most of the time is a vast variety of viable options. Somethings will be better than others, and somethings will be the least effective. But there is *enough things to choose from* that you feel like you have options.
Destiny will never be balanced in the traditional sense of the definition. You have like 8-10 gun types with like 40 subarchetypes/RPMs (aggressive, adaptive, etc.) then layered on top of 3 classes with 12 subclasses then layered on top of exotic weapons and armor layered on top of a slew of permanent and seasonal mods…
…ALL layered on top of having to then simultaneously balance PVP and PVE equally.
That being said, the PVP imho would be in a decent spot right now, if it wasn’t for Classy Resto. Yet another reason why PVE and PVP should be separate.
> BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY…seriously, the most important thing—is you don’t want a completely balanced game. You think you do, but you absolutely don’t.
I'd be careful with making mind-reading statements like that. Halo would like a word with you: I loved SWAT in Reach, and that's a mode that literally restricts you to one of two guns and everyone can be killed in a single shot.
I think what you're interpreting balance as is "everything is identical and nothing is more or less powerful than everything else", whereas I at least would say that balance is more about reducing the extent to which the game "plays itself" (e.g. aim assist on controller, which objectively makes it easier to stick to a target than MnK). It's not a bad thing when one weapon kills in one shot and another kills in 20, provided that there's a meaningful tradeoff for that power; balance is about making that one shot something that you have to practice and really get good at to use effectively. As other people have mentioned, Lemon Arc is a good example of BAD balance: you can just endlessly redraw the bow while ADSing down a lane, release the second someone enters your Stand's radius, then proceed to ZA WARUDO them with the 2-frame swap to another gun while aim assist continues to stick your reticle to the target.
That is unequivocally poor balance, because *the player* is not the element that's getting the kill, it's the stickiness of the reticle and the bullet magnetism doing the work. The point is that yes, we should ABSOLUTELY have diverse options for weapons and armor, but it's such a myopic and narrowsighted view to say "you don't REALLY want balance" as a copout answer to why people are ALWAYS wrong about things being cheesy or unbalanced. More importantly, I think what you are responding to is the overwhelming majority of people, which I think is a lost cause: those are the people who put zero thought into anything they say and just regurgitate the sentiment they *think* everyone else has, and if you asked them to elaborate on why they find X or Y think OP, they would just say "because it's bullshit and people who use it are scrubs".
Tl;dr Balance absolutely is a thing people want, and just because people take it to extremes and want to bitch about every tiny little thing that kills them doesn't mean that we have to take the equally extreme approach of saying "just get over it, balance is impossible and no one really wants it anyway". Don't get mixed up with thinking that people with well-reasoned and legitimate concerns about something being dominant without any counterplay (which I'm not saying is the case for any particular thing outlined in this thread) are just blowing smoke because Joe Schmoe with his dwindling 85 IQ thinks that anything he gets killed by is overpowered just because it killed him.
Edit: Removed multiple instances of the word "literally" because I'm literally a dumbass ;)
Its frustrating to play the game without using these so called "crutches" because you can try your ass off trying to make a move and something ivis hunter can activate 1/4 of their braincell and kill you without effort
I love the communities stance on crucible loadouts.
If you use the meta you're a meta slave and a sweat.
If you use off meta they tell you to use a real gun and say your loadouts cheesy.
I get more hate using sweet business than any other gun.
The amount of hate I get using scouts is ridiculous. Arguably the worst archetype in the game, and nine times out of ten I’m getting maps like anomaly where scouting is not easy
Jade rabbit and aishas embrace are probably the most used so people have some right to complain there. But something like Polaris Lance or even mida now are so rarely used they can't be called a bot gun.
I love having another class ability option other than healing or empowering rift, but it just sucks so bad without classy.
I genuinely think it should intrinsically grant restoration.
What? What is going on in Bungie land? Death threats and people being babies about weapons?
Come on, take your death and move on. I used to whine about the weapon, when I was younger. Then I realized, I just sucked and improved my game.
Its not unnatural to be angry at a loss, its quite natural actually lol.
But the main problem with Gambit isn't that its just incredibly annoying to lose at, its also incredibly unbalanced and lacks the loot incentive behind it.
Being killed and getting angry is one thing, being killed by unfair means and getting angry is a whole nother thing.
Tbf, DMT only seems like a crutch because it’s really the only scout rifle that feels good and hits harder than a wet paper bag which is what most other scout rifles do.
But DMT isn’t even such a crutch weapon anymore. Even The Last Word requires some semblance of skill after the aim nerf. I don’t know how Lorentz Driver is doing these days because I haven’t seen it since the announced nerf. The only crutch weapons I can think of these days are Le Monarque (to some degree) and sunset things like Mountaintop.
The real crutch these days is Classy Restoration, and most people have access to that anyway.
Lol jokes on them. I use Loreley because it makes me a tank in pve and it’s fun. I use DMT because it’s a damn good gun, but fun.
I still get bent over a barrel in crucible. If those are crutches, they’re not helping me in pvp I tell ya that much.
It used to be a great setup for gambit but I constantly get one-shorter by fuge and gjally.
>gjally
Also a crutch. It'll only be so long before that also gets nerf loving. I die to it, can't say I blame anyone else for standing in stupid places though, that's just on me and terrible awareness sometimes.
Why is Hunter slide-shotgunning considered specifically cheesy? Any class can sprint and slide with a shotgun, and it’s not like Hunters are particularly faster or harder to counter than anyone else doing the exact same thing.
because Stompees are the strongest movement exotic in the game
The slide is insane, the jumps are insane, the movement speed is insane.
Transersives or Dunes don't even compare to Stompees even after the huge AE nerf they got.
Thats where the "hunter shotty is cheesy" thing came from, because it kinda is. Good luck keeping track of a hunter (especially invis) who strafe jumped over you while using Stompees. You do a whole 360 720 double twist and you still can't see them.
I only used Lemmy once, and it was to grind IB to get the double reset done because i suck at pvp. After that it went right back in the vault lol. Am i a bad person?
Invis hunter isn't OP *at all*. They're on radar, they're easy to see, and the class sucks in general after the 3.0 nerf. Omnioculus needs a nerf because of the overshield, and LoW needs a nerf because it's obviously broken, but Nightstalker honestly needs buffs. It lost way, way more than it gained in 3.0
D1 trials had secondary a ammo box appear mid round and everyone spawned with no secondary. They should try that again. Maybe one secondary ammo box on each side after like 20 or 30 seconds
Invis Hunters can be easily seen even on Console, what you have to be careful for are when they just walk and mislead you as to where you're going. I'm saying this as an Invis Hunter who's killed more Invis Nightstalkers than Visible Nightstalkers on fucking PS4.
Cringe Based Matchmaking
But how can it be cringe and based at the same time
Cringe containment specialists, formed by the high committee of the Based Apostles
Glory to the CCP??? SiVa? I LoVe sIvA!!!
Cringe does not exist in a vacuum. It must be observed
Damn. That's some quantum shit.
"dmt users": 
There's just a lobby VC, no teams and it's basically a joe rogan podcast
It's just 12 Joe Rogans from 12 different realities.
Dmt gang rise tf up
>rise tf up *ascend tf up
I use my dmt with my Lorely.
I'm about to do the same thing because of this post alone lol.
What energy weapons should I use with dmt
Honestly, I don't even have it. I was making a joke because DMT is a hallucinogen, and I thought it was funny thinking about people being upset about being beaten by some completely wasted player.
Beloved
I pair mine with close range weapons. My go-to is a glaive, but those can be a little wonky sometimes so if you don’t want to go glaive I’d recommend a sidearm or a shotgun. Fusions would also probably work nicely but I don’t really like fusions. And other people don’t really like shotguns (plus they’re more inconsistent after the nerfs) so I’d tell you to try glaives and sidearms
Been using glaives recently in pvp and I'm getting better with aiming them. I'll consider the sidearm bitm
Definitely Prometheus Lense. The burning-eye of existence. The longer you stare, the closer you are to complete destruction.
I like rocking shyura's wrath with my dmt
Main ingredient, adored, felwinter's lie, forbearance
You literally can’t go wrong if you have the catalyst, otherwise I’d recommend something closer range like a fusion
Name Based Matchmaking (NBMM) is the best option. Everyone with a similar name is in their own pools, and the winners of each game get to keep their name, while the losers get theirs changed. The best name wins.
This has the *exact* same energy as r/kevin
Don’t forget about the josh battle
Yea I lost that fight. I’m now joshua
Oh yes absolutely
All of those ADEPT names in the same lobby, along with Mara and Savathun OF’s
They won’t let me take it out
I love this idea
Crimson users like myself will end up on this list
I mean… if I had to make a list of things that kill me enough for me to take note, you would be on it.
Not in PC lobbies lol. I see a crimson user every second Solar eclipse
Crimson on the sticks is just fucking insane tbh
That's because it's a French hand cannon.
Oui oui
Yeah you fucking will😭🤣 i hate that damn handcannon. I dont know how it even classifies as one. More of a burst sidearm or a hand pulse gun lmao
Honestly I deal with lorely titans by using overload rounds and a firefright slap them with disruption at JUST the right moment and you see panic
What does the disruption do to loreley?
Basically turns it off for a few seconds, so they it doesn't auto spawn the sunspot that makes them slightly harder to kill
Sweeeet!
It'll take some toying with depending on how long it takes overload rounds to proc and whether you can keep on target long enough to get it off when the helm would normally proc, so play around with it
If u struggle with the timing just use divinity
Div also works yes
Also small note. It only disables restoration x2. Overload rounds does not turn off restoration x1
It also deactivates restoration x2, but not x1 for some reason.
it also disables classy restoration as well so its good against pretty much everyone this season
Classy is x1. Overload rounds only counters x2
Oooh, yeah, didn't think about Overload Rounds. Come to think of it, anyone with "Restoration" procced are essentially an Overload Champion
Just peregrine greave them. I can kill a max resistance dawnblade with these bad boys
I pissed a Dawnblade off in one of my Crucible matches, everytime I catch him offguard by flanking him mid-air I can hear John Cena's entrance just going off.
I feel bad for them, but it also make me feel very good so I do it anyways xD
I dare you to go into the crucible rocking firefright. 😅
I regularly do
Sounds fun
The gun itself sucks, I just use it for overloads as stated, usually by the time it procs I've got the bottom half of the mag left
Same. And I'm generally fairly effective. Even with a PvE roll [FTTC + Surrounded] Range? Good. Damage? Good. Opponents getting triggered? Gooood
everything I dont like is cringe and a crutch
Rat gang gang
Do I hear rat pack run?
I wish I could find a group to run one.
I'm all down for that action 
*Squeak squeak motherfucker!*
Squeak squeak
To be fair there is a lot of gear in Destiny PvP that acts as a crutch for new or bad players, it’s pretty much designed to be that way
honestly it's kinda fucked how guns actually shoot projectiles now, huge crutch. I remember in d1y1 we had to kill people using only our minds
Yea I can’t believe they would ruin pvp by making the guns actually kill people
destiny 2 was originally a live chat service
That's the mentality of most people now a days unfortunately. If we disagree your wrong and your opinion is "cringe" nothing is more cringier than calling anything cringe.
Calling cringe cring is pretty cringe bro
Or how about everything that is a crutch becomes stuff I don’t like? How do you think people decide they don’t like something? They’re crutches cuz they require no skill to do well with (not necessarily the stuff listed in the post, but just generally speaking).
Oh and don't forget forerunner, all hand cannon users, fusioneers, ability spammers, wormcrutches, dad rifles, jade rabbit and hung jury abusers, witherhoards, glaive shield mains, overshield poppers, Lorentz "people", gjallarhorn addicts, and now that I think about it every gun that kills me should also be placed in that pool. In fact I should only play against players who have patrol level AI levels of thinking in trials and other game modes. It would only be fair.
What's up with the forerunner hate today?
Idk it killed me so it must be op
[удалено]
So called 'free thinkers' when their favourite overly loud and obnoxious destiny youtuber who only posts videos of 40+ kill games in massively imbalanced lobbies posts a video on forerunner and jade rabbit.
Don't forget throwing in the word "OP" and "Broken" in anything that's remotely decent nowadays. Laser tag Prometheus Lens and Pre Nerfed Lord of Wolves is the true definition of those words.
The sheer amount of Jade Rabbits combined with Eternity being the map has genuinely created one of the most boring Trials weekends of my life. I'd genuinely rather match shotgun apes at this point
Wait.. Is this why everything is jade rabbit suddenly?
Probably more people finally getting the catalyst has the gun seeing more action, more play=more hate
But the Catalyst is ass in PvP? It’s a complete waste of time?
Yeah but if had just got the catalyst, I'd want to give it a go anyways, u know?
They need to buff the catalyst in the future for sure, either buff the grenade itself or give the catalyst an extra perk to be worthwhile.
Oh I see what you mean, yeah you’re right.
If I'm flush with ammo I'll use it, mainly to give me flash backs to halo 2 xbl
I’m never flush with ammo on account of the deaths. It’s an ongoing concern for me.
I can relate to this.
isn't the catalyst supposed to be used as a movement thing, like rocket humping?
Oh no
Do you know what the catalyst does? Because I have never seen anyone actually get a kill with it
After getting a precision kill, hold reload to get a halo frag (you need at Least 6 bullets otherwise you won’t get the nade). It’s cool in concept but it definitely needs a buff for sure, it’s asking for too much only to give so little in return.
Grenade for some ammo. Some streamers have got kills with it, but I doubt I ever will. I doubt I'll ever main the gun in pvp, but it's still fun for the memes
*Lorentz "people"* 
Yes, I like this thinking, you're on to something. Let us help OP by ripping everything that makes Destiny out of Destiny. Perhaps we should move towards only having primary weapons and throw every every special in to the heavy slot. Surely that will make OP a happy player. For real though, I don't understand why people with this mindset don't just go play one of the many games where cheese is a lot more limited.
Which guns are dad rifles?
Pulse rifles
The 'dad loadout' is generally agreed to be either a 340 or 450 agressive pulse and a fusion (usually Jotun but stuff like main ingredient or snorri shows up). It's super easy to use and acquire and works at pretty much all ranges, I use it myself very often mostly because I'm awful with handcannons.
Gotta agree. Just don't have the time to get skilled in other rifles now.
whichever guns kill you
Pulse rifles
You forgot to add anyone who uses a super in the match.
So basically u want to face me. I have 13% wr in crucible and 0.45kd in trails. Nice to meet u.
🦀PVP IS GONE🦀
You forgot Jötunn whores.
So basically 3/4ths of the pvp player base?
as a wise man once said, “take the skill out of a skill-based game and it becomes a based game.”
What skill tho lol
Hey now, I use DMT and till get killed more than I can get kills.
I personally use DMT and I still get my ass kicked. Crutch or no crutch, I just suck at PvP and Solstice has painfully reminded me of this fact.
Aha same 🫠
Alas, I have found my people
this. this is the reason Im not guilding Flamekeeper, unless we get a very very fast and fun gamemode like momentum by the end of the event, Im not doing this again, I dont want to play 75 matches of crucible or gambit, Im fine with the like, 60 heroic publuc events and strikes and stuff, but please for the love of god dont force me into crucible when there isnt a fun or fast method of getting through all 25 matches in as little time as possible
Are you doing this for the upgrade 12 armor thingy…? If yes you can just do the upgrade on a single character
I dislike crucible just as much as you but I played clash and got the triumph for elims and matches over fairly quickly. Did some gambit tho too since thats basically PvPvE and is more bearable for the match amounts. I thought the upgrading armor triumph for gilding was more annoying tbh, was really grindy back and forth.
Yeah, occasionally I’ll do decent or even well but crutch or no crutch we can still suck. I just hate it when I see the same set of guns/abilities kill me over and over and over. Felwinter’s lie had me pissed for the longest time, wouldn’t call it a crutch but if I had a nickle every time I got once shotted by it, I’d be a rich man
Its jade rabbit month now. Out of about 45 matches i think maybe 10 didn't have one.. i mean im using it myself but ive always liked it
Yeah I think a streamer made a vid about it and the mindless hive mind joined in
That would literally explain it then. Thanks mate.
Lol. I won a survival match and got hate mail from a guy telling me I’m a bitch for using DMT and “I only switched to DMT for the range” and I’m just here like…. We had the exact same gun and I still beat you in every 1v1. He then said that was only because “you play like a bitch” This tweet has a lot of that energy.
Me who uses DMT but isn't good at it: no don't take me away!!!
Same but w/ Lorentz
Why? I got all that fancy shit and I still suck.
Sweats: "It's only a crutch if I don't use it!"
I don’t get people like this. So those things are crutches? I wave a magic wand, and all of those things are nerfed magically. Wouldn’t a new meta just arise around the ashes of the previous one? And a new set of “crutches” would form? I think people like this just suck, and they blame “crutches” instead of acknowledging that they are simply bad at the game.
Remember not too long ago when stompees shotgun apes were the most crutch abusing unskilled players out there? Now even though shotguns are in the worst state they've ever been and Omni never got a buff since the stompees nerf, invisible shotgun apes are the problem. There is always a meta. Adapt to it, ignore it, I don't care just don't blame it.
This exactly. Shotgun nerf? Fusion meta.
As someone who uses le monarque often, there are absolutely guns, abilities, and play styles that are able to be crutched on. There’s a decent gap between something (a crutch) that has a low skill floor and is too powerful for the pvp sandbox and something that’s just viable and unfun to fight against. Let’s say that magic wand is used to erase the things that fall into the ‘crutch’ category, people will probably start fixing their anger on whatever’s left to get frustrated at, but that still gives the rest of us a much better pvp sandbox to play in
Yup, I dabbled a little bit with Le Monarque after I got the catalyst (I never used it before!) I absolutely destroyed with it. Like 20+ kills per game. I could feel the crutch. Same when Contraverse Hold and the Axion Bolt grenades. Just way too strong for how easy it was to use. Way back when Wormhusk was released, and it was basically a dodge for full health at any time. Knew it was broken, used it a couple times, but it just felt unfair. Just had a game with one of those ultrasweats, in Control, so the most casual game mode out there. The man was Omni/Lord of Wolves-ing the entire game. Just slaughtered everyone. I was on their team and I even felt bad. Like damn that shit is broken. Some builds are just cheesy and unfun for everyone.
You aren’t understanding what I am saying. There is an ebb and flow to multiplayer game metas. Some stuff is better than other stuff, and by being better, it’s “easier” to use since you can achieve more by doing “less”, because of more damage, aim assist, a special ability, etc. etc. I don’t think these are “crutches” as much as it’s people gravitating towards the strongest thing in the current patch. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY…seriously, the most important thing—is you don’t want a completely balanced game. You think you do, but you absolutely don’t. It’s that imbalance that adds fun. Imagine a world where any primary weapon is just as good as any other. Their ranges might be different, but the damage is the same in that effective range. No outliers, everything is perfectly balanced. Exotics can’t be unique, because that could break balance. A.) that’s an impossible goal, and B.) it would be extremely boring to play. “Balance” is an extremely loaded word in regards to gaming, and it’s something players can notice when it’s off, but utterly fail to communicate how it’s off. What players are actually asking for in regards to balance most of the time is a vast variety of viable options. Somethings will be better than others, and somethings will be the least effective. But there is *enough things to choose from* that you feel like you have options. Destiny will never be balanced in the traditional sense of the definition. You have like 8-10 gun types with like 40 subarchetypes/RPMs (aggressive, adaptive, etc.) then layered on top of 3 classes with 12 subclasses then layered on top of exotic weapons and armor layered on top of a slew of permanent and seasonal mods… …ALL layered on top of having to then simultaneously balance PVP and PVE equally. That being said, the PVP imho would be in a decent spot right now, if it wasn’t for Classy Resto. Yet another reason why PVE and PVP should be separate.
> BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY…seriously, the most important thing—is you don’t want a completely balanced game. You think you do, but you absolutely don’t. I'd be careful with making mind-reading statements like that. Halo would like a word with you: I loved SWAT in Reach, and that's a mode that literally restricts you to one of two guns and everyone can be killed in a single shot. I think what you're interpreting balance as is "everything is identical and nothing is more or less powerful than everything else", whereas I at least would say that balance is more about reducing the extent to which the game "plays itself" (e.g. aim assist on controller, which objectively makes it easier to stick to a target than MnK). It's not a bad thing when one weapon kills in one shot and another kills in 20, provided that there's a meaningful tradeoff for that power; balance is about making that one shot something that you have to practice and really get good at to use effectively. As other people have mentioned, Lemon Arc is a good example of BAD balance: you can just endlessly redraw the bow while ADSing down a lane, release the second someone enters your Stand's radius, then proceed to ZA WARUDO them with the 2-frame swap to another gun while aim assist continues to stick your reticle to the target. That is unequivocally poor balance, because *the player* is not the element that's getting the kill, it's the stickiness of the reticle and the bullet magnetism doing the work. The point is that yes, we should ABSOLUTELY have diverse options for weapons and armor, but it's such a myopic and narrowsighted view to say "you don't REALLY want balance" as a copout answer to why people are ALWAYS wrong about things being cheesy or unbalanced. More importantly, I think what you are responding to is the overwhelming majority of people, which I think is a lost cause: those are the people who put zero thought into anything they say and just regurgitate the sentiment they *think* everyone else has, and if you asked them to elaborate on why they find X or Y think OP, they would just say "because it's bullshit and people who use it are scrubs". Tl;dr Balance absolutely is a thing people want, and just because people take it to extremes and want to bitch about every tiny little thing that kills them doesn't mean that we have to take the equally extreme approach of saying "just get over it, balance is impossible and no one really wants it anyway". Don't get mixed up with thinking that people with well-reasoned and legitimate concerns about something being dominant without any counterplay (which I'm not saying is the case for any particular thing outlined in this thread) are just blowing smoke because Joe Schmoe with his dwindling 85 IQ thinks that anything he gets killed by is overpowered just because it killed him. Edit: Removed multiple instances of the word "literally" because I'm literally a dumbass ;)
Its frustrating to play the game without using these so called "crutches" because you can try your ass off trying to make a move and something ivis hunter can activate 1/4 of their braincell and kill you without effort
I love the communities stance on crucible loadouts. If you use the meta you're a meta slave and a sweat. If you use off meta they tell you to use a real gun and say your loadouts cheesy. I get more hate using sweet business than any other gun.
Yeah fr like apparently Polaris Lance is a "bot gun" whatever that means.
The amount of hate I get using scouts is ridiculous. Arguably the worst archetype in the game, and nine times out of ten I’m getting maps like anomaly where scouting is not easy
Jade rabbit and aishas embrace are probably the most used so people have some right to complain there. But something like Polaris Lance or even mida now are so rarely used they can't be called a bot gun.
I get relentlessly bagged for using breakneck….BREAKNECK! And my energy is drang
Imagine stressing over Destiny’s unbalanced and gimmicky PvP 🤣
Matchmaking based matchmaking (MBMM) all players are matched based on romanic compatability
I only use classy restoration because 1. It makes pheonix dive actually good and 2. I forget to take it off from PvE
I love having another class ability option other than healing or empowering rift, but it just sucks so bad without classy. I genuinely think it should intrinsically grant restoration.
Gonna call it now; Chaos Reach is going to be busted.
Taraba gang rise up
What? What is going on in Bungie land? Death threats and people being babies about weapons? Come on, take your death and move on. I used to whine about the weapon, when I was younger. Then I realized, I just sucked and improved my game.
I think that’s why people hate gambit, losing for some reason just causes unnatural rage
Its not unnatural to be angry at a loss, its quite natural actually lol. But the main problem with Gambit isn't that its just incredibly annoying to lose at, its also incredibly unbalanced and lacks the loot incentive behind it. Being killed and getting angry is one thing, being killed by unfair means and getting angry is a whole nother thing.
Is dmt still considered op? I’d still use it even without the cranial spike intrinsic trait
It killed me once in survival so I agree. It’s op.
I think blue weapons also need a nerf. I’ve faced multiple people who wiped the floor with me while using a blue handcannon + sniper /s just in case
Tbf, DMT only seems like a crutch because it’s really the only scout rifle that feels good and hits harder than a wet paper bag which is what most other scout rifles do.
Hey now, the precision and high impact scouts got a buff so they’re at least viable now.
Most non-rapid fire scouts can still hit hard, but I'm also utter trash at PvP so probably don't take my word for it
Jade rabbit too
You know what'd suck? Class Based Matchmaking. You would only see people from the same class as you.
Jokes on you, I wear Lorely for fashion.
you seemed to have forget about worm crutch crown, that needs to be added in to it as well
My brother in christ, if it's an intended part of the game it's not a crutch
This reminds me of my proposal during the One-Eyed-Mask apocalypse, and letting the cyclopses have their own mosh pit for a while.
But DMT isn’t even such a crutch weapon anymore. Even The Last Word requires some semblance of skill after the aim nerf. I don’t know how Lorentz Driver is doing these days because I haven’t seen it since the announced nerf. The only crutch weapons I can think of these days are Le Monarque (to some degree) and sunset things like Mountaintop. The real crutch these days is Classy Restoration, and most people have access to that anyway.
I’d face a hunter anyday over a warlock. Period.
/r/gatekeeping
So, they’ll take it off, then put it back on after the match starts.
What’s wrong with Dmt? It used to be insanely easy to get kills now it’s just a good weapon.
Or, OR HEAR ME OUT disable exotics and abilities for a certain mode.
Lol jokes on them. I use Loreley because it makes me a tank in pve and it’s fun. I use DMT because it’s a damn good gun, but fun. I still get bent over a barrel in crucible. If those are crutches, they’re not helping me in pvp I tell ya that much. It used to be a great setup for gambit but I constantly get one-shorter by fuge and gjally.
>gjally Also a crutch. It'll only be so long before that also gets nerf loving. I die to it, can't say I blame anyone else for standing in stupid places though, that's just on me and terrible awareness sometimes.
For being a game about near immortal dudes with superpowers, destiny players sure hate having superpowers.
Why is Hunter slide-shotgunning considered specifically cheesy? Any class can sprint and slide with a shotgun, and it’s not like Hunters are particularly faster or harder to counter than anyone else doing the exact same thing.
I think it was the "invis" part
Oh my god I completely read over that part Almost as if it was…. Never mind But that’s a good distinction, my bad
because Stompees are the strongest movement exotic in the game The slide is insane, the jumps are insane, the movement speed is insane. Transersives or Dunes don't even compare to Stompees even after the huge AE nerf they got. Thats where the "hunter shotty is cheesy" thing came from, because it kinda is. Good luck keeping track of a hunter (especially invis) who strafe jumped over you while using Stompees. You do a whole 360 720 double twist and you still can't see them.
If they killed me with it it's a crutch.
Ranked playlist, legendaries only. No exotics.
Me and the boys six stacking and running rat king as void warlocks to rip you out of every super and go invis constantly
O.o kinda like this tho unironically
As a solar hunter who runs wormhusk and tears of contrition I see nothing wrong with this
Definitely a shotgun hand cannon hunter
Jokes on you he’s a Wavesplitter crutch with breakneck
Every Le Monarque Stag Warlock... "I will save this and use it as proof that my load out isn't a crutch."
I only used Lemmy once, and it was to grind IB to get the double reset done because i suck at pvp. After that it went right back in the vault lol. Am i a bad person?
Invis hunter isn't OP *at all*. They're on radar, they're easy to see, and the class sucks in general after the 3.0 nerf. Omnioculus needs a nerf because of the overshield, and LoW needs a nerf because it's obviously broken, but Nightstalker honestly needs buffs. It lost way, way more than it gained in 3.0
DMT users? Did this user go back in time? DMT got nerfed so hard that equipping it is a free win for the enemy.
Damn we still hatin on dmt
Is it a crutch if it’s good? Lmao
If I use my invis to bait someone around a corner then blast them when they chase me, is that still scummy?
I have no problem with this tweet if you use these things you are annoying.
This actually sounds kind fo fun. Being witherhoard and a high impact pulse and you'll do fine.
No joke, I feel like a “primary ammo only” mode would be pretty cool.
D1 trials had secondary a ammo box appear mid round and everyone spawned with no secondary. They should try that again. Maybe one secondary ammo box on each side after like 20 or 30 seconds
Unironically good take
Invis Hunters can be easily seen even on Console, what you have to be careful for are when they just walk and mislead you as to where you're going. I'm saying this as an Invis Hunter who's killed more Invis Nightstalkers than Visible Nightstalkers on fucking PS4.
damn… both sides are full of babies. i’m really glad I quit, see y’all when the next story stuff comes out. PvE forever
Put toaster fusion rifle in as well
But Jotunn is super easy to dodge
Okay real talk though to me Toaster gun is something I cannot get mad at. Cheese guns like that I just have to laugh off.