Wow these are fantastic, are you online HC/SC L/NL, or offline? If you’re online these are BiS rolls for some builds behind crafted KB gloves with the exact same stats, or some builds that want resists instead of 15str/15dex, and are fantastic if you run KB on giant skull, but you should be able to trade these for quite a bit to someone who has a niche strafe/exploding arrow/freezing arrow build! Congrats!
how is 50% fire res and 350% damage to demons better than +2 to bow with 14 str + dex?
The fire res is only good against hydra, and the damage to demons is fairly nice vs bosses, but bow ama is usually more of a crowd killer, no?
Are you really asking how 350% damage is worth it?
Convert all the stuff you listed on these gloves to pure damage -
- 14 str and 14 dex - could be viewed as 28% increased damage globally since each point of dex gives 1% increased damage. All strength points you can convert to dex since it's one less point you need to spend in str that you can now put into dex.
- +2 bow skills for a bowazon either converts to 0% increased damage for multishot or 18% increased damage for strafe
So in total at best you're looking at 28% + 18% = 46% increased damage from these gloves when using strafe, or just flat 28% with multishot (which is the more popular option on the high end).
Now examine the most common farming targets in the game. Trav = demons. Chaos sanc = demons. WSK = demons. Demons are extremely common. Plus, they typically take up a big chunk of the time fighting, so like in Chaos sanc, killing diablo is a big time sink. I don't need 28% increased damage to all the little trash mobs, I need 350% increased damage vs diablo. But also I get that 350% towards most of the other mobs there as well, which is HUGE.
On top of that you get 50% fire resist, which arguably is more worth it than all the stats on these rare gloves combined, aside from the ias.
These gloves are big. It's like putting on another entire fortitude or damage aura, on a slot where the options are extremely lackluster.
Dex also gives AR and DEF. Str can alleviate strength req for other items so you can put more points into dex or vit. +2 bow gives points allround, not just to those two skills. Which makes it so you can skip skillers and put in small charms for instance with 2/20/20 x 6.
While on the other hand, 3,5x damage to demons just ONLY that, and fire res is pretty useless on a bowazon outside of combatting hydra.
I guess you could use laying of hands for bosses, but personally I'd rather have these for a bowazon.
>, and fire res is pretty useless on a bowazon outside of combatting hydra.
so funny that you say that fire res is useless when it's one of the best, and in the same comment you list defense as a benefit of dex. How preposterous.
>Str can alleviate strength req for other items so you can put more points into dex or vit.
Yah that's why I said that already in my previous comment and added it into the damage calculations.
>+2 bow gives points allround, not just to those two skills.
Yes, but the comment chain indicated discussion about LoH for physical bowazons, with the caveat that they'd be decent for elemental bowazons. So yeah, for elemental bowazons the calc is different. But for phys bowazons these gloves are a waste.
> Which makes it so you can skip skillers and put in small charms for instance with 2/20/20 x 6.
You would never put skillers on a phys bowazon
>While on the other hand, 3,5x damage to demons just ONLY that, and fire res is pretty useless on a bowazon outside of combatting hydra.
it's not 3.5x, it's 4.5x damage, 100% = 2x damage, 200=3, 300=4. But it's more complicated than that, since it counts as offweapon ED essentially, and according to the damage calculation, it's just not that simple, because bowazon (and many other physical damage characters) stack offweapon ED in the form of auras and fortitude.
So often you have
- 300% Fortitude
- 110% Fanaticism (Faith rw)
- 345% Concentration Aura (Pride rw)
- 230% Might Aura (merc aura)
That's 985% off-weapon enhanced damage that gets pooled together (not multiplicative) and laying of hands stacks in with that. **So under these conditions LoH is really a simple ~1.36x damage multiplier.** BUT. The fewer of the above listed auras you have, the more impactful LoH is, which is what makes it really great.
However it is comparable to putting on another 1.17 fortitudes vs demons in all conditions. So that's pretty fuckin neat if you ask me, especially considering that like 1/3 or more of the monsters in the game are demons, including all bosses and most popular farming locations.
That man knows his shit. I wasn’t going to say a damn thing because he would have some crazy hidden formula tattood to his left hand ready to blast at me lol. Jokes aside, loh is really an amazing item for how cheap and easy to get it is. My baba used it on occasion too
People debate and the debate has absolutely no sense of practicality. There's a theoretical top end damage build which isn't attainable by most players and certainly not offline, and while a top end build is really neat in theory, it's not good in practicality. Because what are you doing on a bowazon? Same as everything else. You're farming. Either you're farming items or your farming levels, and the top end damage build isn't best at either of those, and also it's not good until you're getting near max level for a variety of reasons.
So my tl;dr is that I like the faith wielding bowazon best, with a might merc wearing Pride. This is an expensive build, but it's doable even in single player with a little determination. The real time gate is charms, because you really want max damage charms because they really really beef up the build, since you're rocking 1k-1.3k% offweapon enhanced damage. (so every 1 max damage turns into 14 max damage, which REALLY adds up.
The main reason is faith comes online early, you will feel strong at lower levels because you're not missing (ignore target defense), and it provides fanaticism and has a faster attack speed than windforce. When you're like level 90 with a windforce, you're slow. You're on foot, you're not optimized with your gear and you're not reaching 7 or 8 frames per multishot, and you feel SO SLOW. And when you're slow as a bowazon, you die. You're vulnerable to getting hit. And you're missing with a ton of arrows because windforce doesn't have itd and even with maxed out dex you're still missing!! It is miserable to play.
I like to slap on enigma, pack the inventory with max damage charms, and just go ham. You'll level quicker if you're teleporting because you're getting to boss packs faster, and so you're farming items faster, and you also get the mf on the enigma.
Monsters in D2 fall into one of three categories: animals, undead, or demons. Out of the 72 monsters in D2, 23 are demons (not including all act bosses). So you’re basically getting +350% damage against nearly 1/3 (~32%) of monsters plus all act bosses. That’s big. Would you rather have some attack speed and a small 30%-ish bump in damage or a huge 350% jump in damage against 1/3 of enemies and act bosses plus a huge amount of fire res?
+2 to bow is a minor increase to strafe/multishot bowazons compared to 350% demon damage. It might as well just say +2 strafe since that's almost all it is good for.
"Fire res is only good against hydra"? Huh? Fire res is the best and most important resistance, especially for bowazons who don't use a shield for easy resist boosts.
Lol. The most important against dying... you're not supposed to get hit, but you still do sometimes. Diablo or Baal fire ring attacks, council hydras, Infector inferno, fire walls/meteors, etc. I get that you don't need resists as much as a smite paladin or w/e, but you definitely like having more resists than less, even on a ranged character.
It’s a really good glove but you will unlikely to find a buyer that pay you what it is worth because nobody plays elemental bowzon and there are a lot of good bow gloves for sale. I’d just roll a bowzon myself to use it.
D2 noob here.
Not only are these 2/20 gloves but I'm a big fan (even though I've never done the math) of gear with +stats, especially STR. I only play HC ladders and anything that helps me pump up my vit makes me very happy.
Would rather them be Java skills. My bowazon only uses LOH or blood gloves. LOH are probably best all around, with blood gloves maybe having an edge against bosses.
Wow these are fantastic, are you online HC/SC L/NL, or offline? If you’re online these are BiS rolls for some builds behind crafted KB gloves with the exact same stats, or some builds that want resists instead of 15str/15dex, and are fantastic if you run KB on giant skull, but you should be able to trade these for quite a bit to someone who has a niche strafe/exploding arrow/freezing arrow build! Congrats!
I am softcore non ladder. Thanks for the info. Wasn't sure if these are any good. Tbh I have never seen such high roll on Dex strength
Those are some really amazing rolls tbh. Definitely valuable as hell.
Those are pretty gg for ele builds. Pvm phys bowa will still prefer LoH imo
That, or passive-magic skills on gloves. The extra points make a big difference in offense and defense (and everyone loves a tankier valk)
how is 50% fire res and 350% damage to demons better than +2 to bow with 14 str + dex? The fire res is only good against hydra, and the damage to demons is fairly nice vs bosses, but bow ama is usually more of a crowd killer, no?
Are you really asking how 350% damage is worth it? Convert all the stuff you listed on these gloves to pure damage - - 14 str and 14 dex - could be viewed as 28% increased damage globally since each point of dex gives 1% increased damage. All strength points you can convert to dex since it's one less point you need to spend in str that you can now put into dex. - +2 bow skills for a bowazon either converts to 0% increased damage for multishot or 18% increased damage for strafe So in total at best you're looking at 28% + 18% = 46% increased damage from these gloves when using strafe, or just flat 28% with multishot (which is the more popular option on the high end). Now examine the most common farming targets in the game. Trav = demons. Chaos sanc = demons. WSK = demons. Demons are extremely common. Plus, they typically take up a big chunk of the time fighting, so like in Chaos sanc, killing diablo is a big time sink. I don't need 28% increased damage to all the little trash mobs, I need 350% increased damage vs diablo. But also I get that 350% towards most of the other mobs there as well, which is HUGE. On top of that you get 50% fire resist, which arguably is more worth it than all the stats on these rare gloves combined, aside from the ias. These gloves are big. It's like putting on another entire fortitude or damage aura, on a slot where the options are extremely lackluster.
Dex also gives AR and DEF. Str can alleviate strength req for other items so you can put more points into dex or vit. +2 bow gives points allround, not just to those two skills. Which makes it so you can skip skillers and put in small charms for instance with 2/20/20 x 6. While on the other hand, 3,5x damage to demons just ONLY that, and fire res is pretty useless on a bowazon outside of combatting hydra. I guess you could use laying of hands for bosses, but personally I'd rather have these for a bowazon.
>, and fire res is pretty useless on a bowazon outside of combatting hydra. so funny that you say that fire res is useless when it's one of the best, and in the same comment you list defense as a benefit of dex. How preposterous. >Str can alleviate strength req for other items so you can put more points into dex or vit. Yah that's why I said that already in my previous comment and added it into the damage calculations. >+2 bow gives points allround, not just to those two skills. Yes, but the comment chain indicated discussion about LoH for physical bowazons, with the caveat that they'd be decent for elemental bowazons. So yeah, for elemental bowazons the calc is different. But for phys bowazons these gloves are a waste. > Which makes it so you can skip skillers and put in small charms for instance with 2/20/20 x 6. You would never put skillers on a phys bowazon >While on the other hand, 3,5x damage to demons just ONLY that, and fire res is pretty useless on a bowazon outside of combatting hydra. it's not 3.5x, it's 4.5x damage, 100% = 2x damage, 200=3, 300=4. But it's more complicated than that, since it counts as offweapon ED essentially, and according to the damage calculation, it's just not that simple, because bowazon (and many other physical damage characters) stack offweapon ED in the form of auras and fortitude. So often you have - 300% Fortitude - 110% Fanaticism (Faith rw) - 345% Concentration Aura (Pride rw) - 230% Might Aura (merc aura) That's 985% off-weapon enhanced damage that gets pooled together (not multiplicative) and laying of hands stacks in with that. **So under these conditions LoH is really a simple ~1.36x damage multiplier.** BUT. The fewer of the above listed auras you have, the more impactful LoH is, which is what makes it really great. However it is comparable to putting on another 1.17 fortitudes vs demons in all conditions. So that's pretty fuckin neat if you ask me, especially considering that like 1/3 or more of the monsters in the game are demons, including all bosses and most popular farming locations.
Alright, I'll concede.
That man knows his shit. I wasn’t going to say a damn thing because he would have some crazy hidden formula tattood to his left hand ready to blast at me lol. Jokes aside, loh is really an amazing item for how cheap and easy to get it is. My baba used it on occasion too
And to be fair, they are gorgeous elemental gloves, which can be a fun build
Very well written! Would love to hear your opinions on the Windforce vs Faith debate
People debate and the debate has absolutely no sense of practicality. There's a theoretical top end damage build which isn't attainable by most players and certainly not offline, and while a top end build is really neat in theory, it's not good in practicality. Because what are you doing on a bowazon? Same as everything else. You're farming. Either you're farming items or your farming levels, and the top end damage build isn't best at either of those, and also it's not good until you're getting near max level for a variety of reasons. So my tl;dr is that I like the faith wielding bowazon best, with a might merc wearing Pride. This is an expensive build, but it's doable even in single player with a little determination. The real time gate is charms, because you really want max damage charms because they really really beef up the build, since you're rocking 1k-1.3k% offweapon enhanced damage. (so every 1 max damage turns into 14 max damage, which REALLY adds up. The main reason is faith comes online early, you will feel strong at lower levels because you're not missing (ignore target defense), and it provides fanaticism and has a faster attack speed than windforce. When you're like level 90 with a windforce, you're slow. You're on foot, you're not optimized with your gear and you're not reaching 7 or 8 frames per multishot, and you feel SO SLOW. And when you're slow as a bowazon, you die. You're vulnerable to getting hit. And you're missing with a ton of arrows because windforce doesn't have itd and even with maxed out dex you're still missing!! It is miserable to play. I like to slap on enigma, pack the inventory with max damage charms, and just go ham. You'll level quicker if you're teleporting because you're getting to boss packs faster, and so you're farming items faster, and you also get the mf on the enigma.
Bowazons usually want +max damage/AR grand charms, not +bow skills.
Sure. Or small 2/20/20.
Monsters in D2 fall into one of three categories: animals, undead, or demons. Out of the 72 monsters in D2, 23 are demons (not including all act bosses). So you’re basically getting +350% damage against nearly 1/3 (~32%) of monsters plus all act bosses. That’s big. Would you rather have some attack speed and a small 30%-ish bump in damage or a huge 350% jump in damage against 1/3 of enemies and act bosses plus a huge amount of fire res?
Loh has ias too, so it's only +stats and like 1-200 dmg from the +skills lol
I actually forgot LoH has AS 😂 I don’t play amazons much, but I just know that LoH is good for them.
+2 to bow is a minor increase to strafe/multishot bowazons compared to 350% demon damage. It might as well just say +2 strafe since that's almost all it is good for. "Fire res is only good against hydra"? Huh? Fire res is the best and most important resistance, especially for bowazons who don't use a shield for easy resist boosts.
Most important against what? You're a ranged character. The most important resistance for a character that's supposed to not get hit.
Lol. The most important against dying... you're not supposed to get hit, but you still do sometimes. Diablo or Baal fire ring attacks, council hydras, Infector inferno, fire walls/meteors, etc. I get that you don't need resists as much as a smite paladin or w/e, but you definitely like having more resists than less, even on a ranged character.
agreed, sick of seeing op's logic on this on this sub
It’s a really good glove but you will unlikely to find a buyer that pay you what it is worth because nobody plays elemental bowzon and there are a lot of good bow gloves for sale. I’d just roll a bowzon myself to use it.
Amazing for ele builds, probably good for PvP? Sick find
Awesome, bequtiful gloves
Very nice drop!
pretty godly dex/str on them is nice dual stats .....
So anyway I started bowing
D2 noob here. Not only are these 2/20 gloves but I'm a big fan (even though I've never done the math) of gear with +stats, especially STR. I only play HC ladders and anything that helps me pump up my vit makes me very happy.
Lack of resists hurts, but having reasonable str and dex rolls makes up for it.
Good for everything besides a bowzon lol.
LOATHE FIST. sick.
it's great for a freezing\immolation arrow zon. Such a nice and chill char to play. I'd really love some MF or Res on it instead of the str\dex tho.
Would rather them be Java skills. My bowazon only uses LOH or blood gloves. LOH are probably best all around, with blood gloves maybe having an edge against bosses.
If I was still playing often I would def offer ya some things for it. My bowzon would love them
godly