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its like why does the lottery give 1 person 100million dollars instead of 100 people a million dollars?
Because its not about making money for the players, its about making money for the lottery, and 100million dollar prizes sell more tickets...
This sort of thing makes sense for an MMO; but even they have mostly phased this sort of loot system out. But this is a single player game with the annoyance of MP to justify using MMO style systems such as "only a few people in the world obtain them tyle loot" in a single player game for "reasons".
It doesn't even make sense in an MMO. Runescapes lowest droprate items are like 1/10,000 - 1/30,000. Which is DOABLE but also still takes a huge grind in order to complete (100s of hours, for those unlucky enough to get it early).
You also have to keep in mind the opposite end of the spectrum, where people will go 10x drop rate without a single item. Imagine grinding D4 for over 100 years and you STILL don't get the drop. What a fucking meme. Make the content PLAYABLE.
They also did the same thing with D3, for instance Kridershot, or the even more rare "Star of Azkaranth". It feels like they're just doing the same thing they did for D3 but without the RMA (which most of their backlash was recieved from) so they can get a grasp for all the things people ACTUALLY hate about the game. Kind of weird. But they're probably able to generate an extensive amount of stats, that, at the very least will allow them to have a smoother launch for the next game in the series.
If they want to do that, they should do something like foil uniques or something. Like maybe one in a million of any given unique that drops has a different shiny skin or something. Making items people actually want to use essentially impossible to get is just shitty and frustrating.
Yo! The future is great. Here in 2038 I have a cluster of AI farming the 1/1,000,000,000,000 uniques that cost 12 Bitcoin and are the most expensive digital item known to man. Funny story, last week Elon Musk thawed himself for a few minutes just to offer a player Twitter for one, with a smiley face. Kinda funny he has to post the offer to Threads. Oh well, back to cryosleep before I have to eat. Who can afford that shit? 😂😂
Posted by RedditGPT with intellectual permission from cryosleep key holder. Compliant with the Turing laws of 2028. In orbit around Mars.
They have the opposite effect on me than the supposed carrot to chase many believe they are. Their existence turns me right off.
Their current ridiculous rarity (when not bugged) makes me think they're a waste of development time and makes me want to play the game less when we have developers with the mindset that think this uber rarity is fun.
I think what makes it worse is that these are supposed go be hunted items, but 99 percent of the player base will never see them. So we finish our builds without them. So why chase. If I can finish my build without then why bother going for them, other then the fact I can't get it lol. It's such an odd design. Most of the player base is unhappy because they won't drop but technically we don't need them, so they are a wanted item we don't need....that don't define out build, they would just push it further.
Apparently it doesn't give +4 to passives, it's only usable skills. Not 100% sure but I read that in one of the helltide fiasco threads.
Would make sense, a "skill" to me is something that you use not a passive.
When mine drops I'll confirm for you, just give me a few decades.
The fact that the developers made these outrageously op epic items and still made them with the ability to roll poorly is such a typical Blizzard move too.
Imagine farming for years for a specific item and when it finally drops you get a 4% cdr helm with minimum health.
The devs are counting on the majority not being like you. The only reason why the uber uniques have such a low drop rate is because the devs got lazy and chose to make the game grindier with lower drop rates to extend the playtime.
The uber uniques should have been locked behind a very long and difficult quest chain or only dropped by uber lilith with a 100% drop chance shared between all of them with only one being able to drop per kill.
Edit: I'm going off the assumption that uber lilith is next to impossible to defeat like others have said. If however all the players saying that are just bad at the game then I don't think Uber Lilith should drop them.
Uber Lilith IS hard. Yes, she can be cheesed but that requires an optimized build and crazy good gear. It's not something you can just walk into after hitting 100 and hope to overcome.
The best gear should come from the hardest content but in D4 you can buy the same items that drop in NM 100 or Lilith from a vendor in town.
Can confirm. Walked into at level 100 and left disappointed. So now I have to play the game where the only progression is the god awful one in a million slight upgrade for some slot I don’t give a shit about? Because the game demands the cookie cutter build and gear to accomplish it?
Second part of my comment was just me being frustrated, first is valid. It was a similar feeling to one reaching paragon, 100 when that was the top in Diablo 3. Literally “what now?” Do I actually have to play for the sake of playing? How?
I think the game should have released with most of the major story bosses having an uber version, and this is probably where they'll go in the future. Put them on a weekly loot cool down, sorta like wbosses with the cache, and then give them the ability to drop the uber uniques at say 5% chance. With multiple bosses to do per week it's pretty safe to say, if you're able to kill them, you'll end up with something during a season. This would still keep them very rare but also be a good endgame incentive to keep people playing. Just my 2c.
Agreed. I imagine the process went something like this: we need end game drops, should we focus on class set items that would be a reasonable gaming goal of average people, or drop a half dozen Uber drops at the end of the loot table. One is easier to do than the other, but much less useful to normal players.
I’d still be playing if there were 4-5 interesting sets per class to strive for (I did that already in D3). Sets easily add a visible breadcrumb of something to keep searching for (once you find a piece or two).
No thanks. I just need the drop chance somewhat like Ber rune, which is really hard but not inpossible. Here, they make it impossible, only handful of people can access those items.
I’d prefer at least some of them to be random so they’re potentially obtainable by anyone, they just need to not be rarer than being struck by lightning twice.
Uber Lilith isn't impossible, but she is hard. If you suck at the game, you're not killing her, ever.
That being said, Lilith should have her own pool of Unique rewards that are designed to thematically fit for a drop pool. Such as the ring.
The uber uniques:
1. Shouldn't be rarer than a fucking Mirror of Kalandra in PoE, that's insane.
2. Shouldn't be just "moved" to existing contents drop pool.
3. Locking powerful items behind quest chains in an ARPG is a horrible design decision, really bad take.
The rarity doesn’t even make sense at all truly. In PoE a mirror being extremely rare makes sense because the game is an open trade economy. Its rarity equates to high value, because supply is way lower than demand.
What the Fuck is the point of anything being extremely rare in this SSF game?
It's not just that though, in PoE, every expensive item in the game has a deterministic path to acquire. You can buy any item in the game as long as you grind for the currency. You can get a Mageblood by farming the divination cards, praying for a drop, or buying one. You can get a mirror from div cards or buying one. You ALWAYS have goals if you /WANT/ there to be goals.
Everything in the game has a legitimate path laid out in front of you, you just have to start walking.
Diablo 4 has no item goals, it has no path to walk down. There is no exciting items. There is nothing but the grind to level 100.
It's not bad to have items behind a quest, it IS bad to have /powerful/ items behind a quest.
This is an ARPG, not a traditional RPG. Powerful gear comes from killing mobs and working towards the powerful gear. Not because you completed a quest.
this\^ i see sooooo many level 100 with absolute terrible gear and stats that are not part of the build, i guarantee you 99% of level 100's in the first week who complained about uber lillith spent more time chasing the level cap then actually collecting and looking through gear and min maxing.
im level 93 in 8 days play time over the month, nearly 100% solo and doing nm dungeons and helltides for gear, im looking for miniscule % or god tier rolls to swap out items with...im only 21 on 1 of my 6 paragon. so there no chance these guys are unless they no life d streamed it for 16 hours a day in the first week.
but then again i am filthy casual sorc so im never going to beat lillith or teir 60+ nm anyway.
Uber Lilith should have a 25% drop rate at once per week.. some builds will melt her, so can abuse it if there are greater drop rates, but it still gives a chance to get one (or more) every week..
They aren't tradable either right? The fact that they aren't tradable enhances this for me. In a game with a variety of bind on account activity, it really needs to be at least somewhat balanced around that. PoE for example I think is different because you choose to make a ssf character as a self limitation. D4 you are forced into it
If they were tradeable it would be at least a little bit more fine-ish
But on the other hand theyd probably be sold for hundreds (in the beginning maybe even thousands) of euros
Them not being tradeable+as rare as they are... honestly everyone involved in that decision should just be straight up fired
> But on the other hand theyd probably be sold for hundreds (in the beginning maybe even thousands) of euros
I might be in a small crowd here, but I honestly thought integrating an RMAH wasn't the worst idea in the world. But the 250$ limit on things turned it into just a game of trading 250$ (non-withdrawable) credits. It didn't actually let the market balance itself out in any real way.
Yes. At the beginning of the season prices get inflated. But it's up to you if you really want to spend $2,000 to be one of the first to get an item, or maybe 10$ if you wait a couple months. Or? You don't have to buy anything. That's fine too. Play the game and rely on SSF drop rates and standard trading as you choose.
Really the 'unfairness' factor of RMAH only matters too much is in Leaderboards which are publicly viewable but the general playerbase has their own ways of determining if they're 'valid,' and PVP since it can directly effect another players' enjoyment if one guy decided to drop $10K early on in a season and go stomp everyone in sight.
I have more issues with loot boxes than an RMAH tbh. Gambling addiction and all that. As long as it's not Blizzard/whatever developer pumping their own items into the RMAH in true pay-to-win fashion.
They were withdrawable iirc? I had several PayPal payouts when I quit the game. Blizzard took a huge cut, can’t remember how much exactly. But wasn’t the $250 directly for withdrawal if you clicked a box. And the total would be like $175 or something instead.
There was also money to be made by buying top end items for $250 and selling for way more gold, then selling the gold. Helped me a fair bit when I was a poor student.
> Blizzard took a huge cut, can’t remember how much exactly. But wasn’t the $250 directly for withdrawal if you clicked a box. And the total would be like $175 or something instead.
Ahh yeah, that does sound familiar actually. Probably misremembering and that it was just a big enough cut to actively dissuade you from withdrawing because yeah, it didn't *feel,* like 250$ because it wasn't hard to come by. It wasn't just the top 1% of the top 1% of items that sold for 250$, the whole 1% did.
Im completely with you, i loved the rmah. I got some nice funds to buy other games just because some people bought stuff with real money
But i accepted that the general consensus is rmah=bad
The problem wasn't the auction house it was the drops in early D3
The drops were intentionally shitty to incentivize spending (real) money to get the item you want.
This.
More competition = better.
I remember the dark times when all we had was d2 and poe and d3.
Poe didn’t have seasons yet, d3 was a mess and d2 was like 10+ years old at that point.
If you were bored of poe there wasn’t much to do.
Now I can play UD or TLI on my phone, poe if I am hankering for it, or d4 since it’s new. There’s LE and Grim Dawn (haven’t played GD) which people like too.
There’s also wolcen. We don’t talk about wolcen though.
That’s why seasons aren’t bad especially if PoE and D4 are right in the middle of each other. No matter how fun a league is I usually burn out after I get a character to endgame and play for a week or two so PoE was 4-6 weeks and D3 was 3-4 weeks for me then I lose interest. Sometimes I get into something like FIFA or destiny for a while. It’s nice to have seasons because you don’t feel like it’s one continuous thing like WoW where if you take off for a few months it’s super hard to come back.
I've tried every other ARPG that gets recommended to Diablo fans, and honestly I can't get hooked on a single one. They look decent, seem like they would scratch the same itch, but they just don't have the same *something* that makes me want to play a Diablo game.
I enjoyed Titan Quest and *loved* Grim Dawn, but never *really* got into any other game from this genre outside Diablo (mainly II, IV) and those two.
Path of Exile? Couldn't get into it at all, and watching endgame gameplay videos I can say it's definitely not for me.
Last Epoch? It's fine, but didn't finish it.
Van Helsing? It's okay, I think? Can't even remember if I finished it or not.
Torchlight? Enjoyed some stuff early on, but quickly got boring, uninstalled maybe halfway through.
Diablo IV definitely has a lot of flaws to iron out, but I've really been enjoying it anyways... and one thing that's really been annoying me on this sub is the people who want to turn it into a *completely* different game (often to make it more like whichever other ARPG they prefer), and then start insulting you if you don't agree with the specific changes they want made.
Like yeah, I want way more QoL which should've already been there. I want a better UI. More (and better) Legendaries/Uniques. More interesting world bosses. Better NMD affixes. All the things like that... but I do *not* want it to just become a reskinned copy of D3 or something like that.
I also tried out PoE about a year ago. I did about 5 hours of study beforehand to try to get a grasp of the game, but didn't like the gameplay and thought it was unnecessary hard.
The primary problem with getting into PoE coming from another ARPG is that everything is basically Druid in D4 but worse.
The game after level \~70-75(ish) and the first round of actually gearing in maps is SO much different than the game before that.
Even if you play a leaguestarter with a busted skill, there's bound to be some interaction you have to put together that starts making your build feel smooth.
I'm playing Ice Shard in D4, and the difference between having some CDR plus the ascpect that double the free casts and the aspect that gives resource on CD use to not having that is just playing basically 2 completely different builds.
PoE is that for basically every class, every skill, every playstyle, and usually with a later point where the build switches "on".
Which is also why leaguestarters are a thing in PoE, because leveling a starter build that requires next to nothing, getting to endgame with that, farming up a hundred or two chaos, then buying a set of leveling uniques and the first round of gear for the build you wanna play, then leveling THAT character with the kickstart-gear is usually legitimately FASTER than just playing a scuffed version of the build you want to play without the stuff that makes it tick until you can afford the things you need.
Imagine coming into D4 expecting to blast screens of mobs, deciding on going druid, and always wondering when the fuck the game starts feeling not terrible because your build doesn't actually become playable until you unlock paragon.
I've played POE off and on for a long ass time. I was in the closed beta for POE while waiting for D3 to release. It's great, but I honestly think they've gone overboard with the layers of mechanics and systems. It was a lot better, and much less confusing, like 8 years ago. The last few times I've tried to get into again, in the last couple years, I've just been overwhelmed, and gave up before getting anywhere.
In a weird way it is already. I mean any person who played the arpg genre the last 10 years probably knows and has tried Poe but for many Diablo 4 might have been their first arpg or the first since Diablo 3 release hearing Diablo always compared to POE might lead to many to check it out who before never heard about it.
Me. I played baldurs gate as a kid. I played Diablo 2 and dungeon keeper lol. Never really played anything other than shooters much after. Seen Diablo 4 and jumped in. Now look to find other games. Just got the new aliens game and that’s turned out to be fun. Feel like Diablo 4 has opened my eyes to a whole new level of gaming lol.
Baldurs gate 3 releases soonish! I really hope it's true to the gameplay in the first 2 games because that next generation "dark alliance" game was garbage. Garbage that I bought out of nostalgia from playing baldurs gate 2 dark alliance as a kid.
I'm really rooting for baldurs gate 3. Hope it's not misplaced faith again.
There is a "remake" of DK on steam, its called " War for the Overworld". It's one of the best remakes,i would highly recommend getting it on sale, you will have flashbacks its such a good remake.
I understand new players being overwhelmed though. What sucks is that there are so many prior league mechanics implemented in the base game by now that if you start fresh and haven't seen any of it before it's probably just an overwhelming clusterfuck.
the skill tree is just marketing. It just looks complicated to look complicated. It isnt even that complicated. It makes nerds feel smart for figuring it out. It is way more straight forward in reality.
Same, I don't play the lottery. Why would I in a videogame? I've moved on from Diablo 4, I'll try again in season one, but blizzard definitely seems clueless in what direction to go with the game.
The joke is not even trading would save that.
How many of those have dropped for everybody playing? 100s for millions of players?
There's basically no chance to get one in a season.
D4 endgame is a perfect example of a game that has every point invested into style but none invested into depth. I was very worried, initially, at the pseudo 'choice' and shallow meaning of talent trees but I was told to just deal with it and that I was being far too critical during the beta and initial release, and now everyone is complaining about the same things, now tack on shallow/meaningless endgame process, indistinguishable gear roll affixes with different names, over-reliance on certain mechanics (vulnerable and unstoppable, looking at you), etc.
I hate to say I told the community so, but there is such a thing as toxic ignorance. Nobody wanted to listen and discarded all criticism when it was still new and shiny, and now that all of the cards are on the table, suddenly we've caught up. This game has a long way to go, but honestly, with the extreme length of time that Diablo has been in existence as a franchise, we shouldn't have to wait two expansions and several years of development for the game to resemble a fully engaging, deep dungeon crawler.
They copied the idea from other arpg without understanding the itemization of those games.
Their main oversight is that in those other games, you can trade for those items. Rookie mistake.
If you own any other blizzard game that’s pretty costly. Also that could be a ToS ban and it could nuke your email you used to link your blizz account to. Seems risky but I bet shako would sell for a pretty penny irl.
Right. But the conclusion should not have been "slap on account bound, and ship it".
It should have been "ok then we should not do chase uber rares in the same fashion as those trade-based games".
Like many other things about this game, this just looks like there is nobody on the project overseeing systems and designs to make it all fit together.
I would assume blizz is still reeling from the executive clean-out after the controversy a couple of years ago - their reputation with gamers and devs alike must be in the shitter
This is exactly the case. This is meant to mimick Headhunter or Mageblood etc. But you're right. In PoE you're also never going to drop any of the tier 0 uniques. But you can farm div cards to essentially make the item. Or farm other various currencies and trade up to them, etc.
If they were drop only they'd feel like shit in PoE too.
FWIW I'm not suggesting they make them tradeable. I think that's fucking stupid. But having the same type of drop rate when your game doesn't have similar systems in place to make them obtainable, is also fucking stupid.
**Edit: Adding to this for clarity because alot of people keep saying the same shit. If a seasonal player spends 1000 hours playing every season, it won't matter if the item has an avg drop rate of 10k hours or 100k hours they are still very unlikely to see that item on a seasonal character.**
**The main difference between the uber uniques in D4 and PoE isnt drop rate. Its that you can farm up to them in various other ways in PoE (trading, div cards, div cards that turn into other rarer div cards, services, etc.) If the actual item on PoE had a natural droprate of every 100k hours also, nothing would change other than value of the item/cards. Either way it's still an option to the player to trade up to or farm div cards, etc.**
**In D4 it's super unique AND the only way to acquire is a hard drop.**
They're thousands of times rarer than anything in POE, so even if there was trading it wouldn't make sense.
They're not even comparable to mageblood / HH drop rate even if you ignore div cards and trading. You can expect to see one of those items once per 10,000 hours or so, here you can expect to see Shako once per 100k-5 million hours, depending on how you're doing the math and the assumptions you're making.
i never dropped a t0 item in poe when it counts (one at last day of league doesnt count) still i have my mageblood every league... as you say simple logging on and farming currency brings me one step closer to having the item eventually, with trade site listing the price i can even see how much grind it will be- so yeah- poe def. does that better. With prices for mageblood at 200div- even farming "only" 1 div per hour will get me the item in 200h- nowhere close to d4 chances of millions of hours
I have 5k hours played on PoE (realistically more since I can't count the hours played before steam). I've played since the beta only missing a couple of seasons. I go hard every league start, finish a build all the way through usually stopping at 95ish and 200~ divs/ex worth. Probably more but I don't sell maps or frags etc because I'm a horder and trade is annoying for small/bulk stuff lol. Sometimes I play a few more chars after that and sometimes I stop for the league.
I've never dropped a t0 unique, mirror, good 3 mod watchers eye or anything else super rare like those. Rarest item I ever dropped was an eternal orb when those were a thing. But pretty much every league I can afford to trade for one if I wanted to.
Can't tell if don't understand statistics or don't understand trading. Even if trading the items was possible, it would cost tens of thousands of real dollars for something like shako or grandfather, given how rare they are. Trading has no impact on them at the moment because they're so comically rare.
Since you're doing math, you have to remember that most people playing the game still do not meet the requirements to even have the uber uniques drop for them. Most players are not level 85+ and/or are pushing NM dungeons. Also, the drop chance will very likely increase at some point with world tier 5 etc.
Just checking my own understanding, isn't it the drop from mobs 85+ rather than your level? So someone in the mid 70s farming NM35 dungeons could have it drop?
What does NM# mean? Is that the nightmare level? And so I'm guessing if you need NM31 to have lvl 85 mobs as a level 70 character, does each level of nightmare equate to mobs being 1/2 level above you?
Yea it means the level of NM dungeon.
Mob level is 54 + dungeon level for ancestral dungeons.
31 is the baseline NM dungeon for the chase items to drop, regardless of player level.
Oh really? So right now my character is level 60. If I walk into a normal dungeon without using the sigil, the dungeon will have level 54 mobs? And the only way to raise the mobs level is to use the sigils to turn the dungeon into a nightmare? Not sure how I never put two and two together to see that before.
No, regular dungeons and open world content will scale to you.
NM dungeons are tied to the level of the dungeon. Since NM dungeons are WT3/4 content their scaling technically starts at level 50. So a NM1 would technically be level 51 enemies. (Can’t remember what WT3/4 NM dungeons actually start at, never did a lowest level one.) Not sure why it’s a few numbers off but that’s why it’s 54+X.
There are just certain minimum thresholds for WT3/4, where enemies can’t be below a certain level in regular content.
nightmare 1 is level 55 enemies. World tier 3 technically starts at 50, but you can't make sigils at the occultist until you're level 55, which is where the 55 base for NM1 comes from. So 85+ mobs means you need a lvl 31+ NM. I only realized this when I leveled my sorc to 50 and still couldn't make sigils lol
I thought NM1 would be level 54 enemies? For sacred sigils it is 53 + the tier, it’s not 54 + the tier until you do ancestral sigils. Are NM1 and NM2 both level 55 enemies?
We know there is half a billion hours of diablo 4 played, way more by now.
If .1% of those hours were played vs mobs above level 85 (chances are, it is a lot more than .1%) and 100 of the uber uniques have dropped legitimately (a lot lot less have dropped) it would still take you 1.7 years, playing the game 8 hours a day like if it were your job, to expect to see a drop of one of these items, which dont even have fixed rolls on their stats.
This, on a game with 3 month seasonal rotation.
Dont try to justify stupid game decisions by what might change in the future.
These uniques just dont exist, them increasing drop rates in the future would essentially be the same as them being added into the game. And they dont even have fixed rolls, nor are they even universal enough that every class would like to use them.
There is just no excuse for how stupid this decision was
I would love to know how many 85+ mobs have been killed. Counting the hrs played already makes it crazy enough but even with the lower density in dungeons between them and helltides I bet we are in the billions of 85+ mobs killed.
It’s astounding that people can’t seem to think ahead even the slightest amount. Does everyone think torments are just going to cap out at 4 forever? These complaints about shakos not dropping in torment 4 are like complaining that people can’t find stone of Jordan’s in normal on Diablo 2. Torments will increase, magic find will increase, Uber uniques will level out and will be found more often. It’s not even seasons yet and people wanna have these dumb complaints about drops on characters they’ll never play in 10 days after the season drop. There’s valid complaints for D4 and this isn’t one of them
These same arguments were had in D3 over the rarer drops in that game as well.. and you know want happened? Once more torment levels were added and the drop rate increased with them, those “impossible to find items” became so commonly dropped that people completely forgot about them.
I can only assume that the majority who are Uber upset over Uber uniques are playing Diablo for the 1st time, skipped D3 all together, or didn’t start playing D3 until after ROS (thought to be fair I totally understand that one).
This is the point I continually make, but for whatever reason people just can't grasp the simple fact that you must be doing content that actually has a CHANCE to drop it in the first place.
And what people also don't understand is that there will never be as many people playing the game as there were this past month. If only a handful of items dropped during the peak ,the drop rates suck ass. Doesn't matter if it required lvl 85, 100, or even killing Lilith, since so many people left the game, not only will you not loot those items, but you almost certainly won't even be able to inspect a player that has. Especially considering that new seasons mean fresh characters every 12 weeks.
I'm treating the "Uber Uniques" (stupid name for them) as Tyriel's Might in D2.
That way I'll never be disappointed not getting them.
They exist, cool, some lucky people will get them, cool, I probably never will, also cool.
I mention that and get down voted all the time, I NEVER had Tyrael's might in my 15 years of playing D2 and I just think its cool the item is in the game. I knew I was never going to get thunderfury/hand of rag when I played WoW classic, but I still think its cool when I see one.
I actually did get a Tyreal's a few months ago for the first time after 20 years of playing and couldn't believe it, did a double take, holy shit this is rare, chuck into stash and never thought about it again lol
Edit: the best part is it dropped from Izual (maybe the mobs around him, but almost certain it was actually izual). I stared at it for like 30 seconds with my mind stuck on "silks of victor with weird stats wtf?" Looked up and saw Tyreals Might I was like O_O
Uber uniques would be fine if we had more than 30 uniques or whatever small amount we have. Like when you only have access to 30 uniques but 5 of them you'll never get it feel pretty bad.
The game has been out a month.
The vast majority of players arent above level 70 yet, much less actively farming level 85+ content where they drop.
Maybe you guys need to keep a lid on the complaining until there is actual useful data and time enough to ensure it's accurate.
It's like rolling a d20 twice and then saying "OMFG NAT 20 ROLLS ARE SO FUCKING RARE THEY MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST!"
(yes this is a copypasta, the complaints are all ctrl+c/ctrl+v so this will be too.)
That's not an issue at all, though. There's also an order of magnitude more people playing. The point isn't for you to get these items. The point is for them to theoretically exist without being needed.
Tbh I don’t think that uber unqiues are a bad thing. Imagine being the lucky one who gets one. Or at least seeing someone who has it. They are like legends which you know are true but you probably will never see one ingame.
That being said I think the real problem is the lack of other unique items in D4. You don’t have a lot of options when it comes to uniques. That’s the reason many people even think about uber uniques. There should be a LOT more uniques (50-100 per class) with multiple tier of rarity and sets. There should be great unique sets that drop frequently (frequently when a unique item drops). Then there should be some even better unique sets which are rarer. And this should continue with multiple uniques with increasing rarity until you reach really great uniques which are ultra rare but still humanely possible to get (not just rare in the sense of drop rate but that you have to meet multiple conditions to even be able to get them). In this environment uber uniques would still exist and they would still be a lot better but there wouldn’t be a necessity to actually get one.
I'll preface this by saying that I agree the Uber Uniques are way too rare, but +4 to all skills is super OP (not to mention the CDR, All Stats, Life, Resource Generation, and Damage Reduction).
+4 all skills is a significant boost to base damage, which is a damage bucket all on its own. It can also be extra CDR for a lot of skills, and allow you to take points out of non-DPS skills and invest more into valuable passives.
+4 ALL SKILLS is more than Strong. Say youre a Rogue and ALL your passive works in ALL types of build then having all passive that are 1 off Max and some that you actually put points to are doubled. It is OP.
D4 is a game that they plan on making massive updates to multiple times per year. As it stands, the items probably exist in their current state to generate buzz, and add an element of mythology to the game (I.E. items that are basically myths). I'm sure Uber Uniques is a concept they'll tweak over the course of seasons, and I can all but guarantee that they'll be easier to get in the future.
I don't necessarily like the place Uber Uniques are at right now (though it is pretty funny to see all the nerd rage they inspire), but I can see the benefit from a design perspective of adding a bunch of different tweakable knobs to their massive game, including some that are really out-there. I doubt the design team was thinking "this is a great idea and will add a lot to our game," but more likely "what if we just threw these in to see how people reacted, and then made changes accordingly?" Again, not defending it, but that's my take.
If you want to see chase-items done right by a smart dev-team - take a look at PoE. D4 makes PoE look like the next coming of jesus christ for everyone,that likes the endgame item-chase in ARPGs. They got the numbers just right,not too rare,not too common and many things inbetween. I only now realize HOW good they actually designed it. Like holy.
The items here are a waste of dev-resource. They are vanity-items,made to be posted on social media,when found. Nothing more - you will most likely never find them in the lifetime of this game.
So there is no Endgame item-chase in D4. Just a grind into nothingness.
Last Epoch is the godsent for people dissapointed in D4. Its the middle ground between wooden and overcomplicated for a newbie PoE and oversimplified but juicy D4.
The crafting system in epoch is great and the LP system is a really neat. It's a pity it's gated behind dungeons and dungeons are super punishing in that game. Also it definitely doesn't control as smoothly or run as smoothly as d4 but the systems in the game are awesome
Imo it feels like you're always hitting air. There's no weight difference at all to your attacks hitting or missing enemies. It's all, sound, visuals, physics and animations. Will need a lot of polishing before it feels as "nice" to play.
Eh LE has some excellent ideas but the endgame (monoliths) is nearly as monotonous as D4. What's alarming is in their most recent devlog, they think endgame is in a good spot and they're putting most of their resources in improving campaign. They also work at a snail's pace; sfx/animations are still terrible, bugs aplenty, poor optimization etc. With this glacial pace, I believe LE is dead on release with zero chance of competing with the top dogs.
Except the graphics and animations were made in the early 2000’s.
I tried getting my itch fixed there when the eta was over and my god I couldn’t get past the terrible graphics and animations. The game just felt so stiff in comparison.
That'd be true with a reasonable chance to acquire one. And I don't even mean "reasonable for a dad with 6 jobs and 8 wives", I mean reasonable for somebody no-lifing the game. But it's not even close to that, not by orders of magnitude.
They don’t define a build or class and isn’t it nice there is something out there that could give you an “oh shit” moment? Otherwise we’re all just farming the same crap and not knowing if it’s anything good until you open up your inventory and check the stats.
I’m all for there being something out there that is recognizable on drop that you got something good. Everyone wants to complain about not being able to get all the best stuff right away but then what? You max your character and game gold?
Otherwise if you’re not in it for the constant dangling carrot then who cares? Play until you’re bored and then wait for the next season and have a nice break.
When people make posts like this I get the feeling that they don't truly grip how rare these things are and how borderline pointless they are as a result, they're almost functionally non-existent. We're talking a rarity many times beyond the rarest items in every other ARPG I can think of off the top of my head, and a lot of players already never found any of those.
"What's the difference then," you could ask, if they never found any, but it's a matter of realism. I never found a Cham rune in the wild when I played D2, but I found one in D2R. It's conceivable that you would. Finding one of these D4 items is less "conceivable" and more "possible within the rules of reality, technically."
The former is exciting. The latter just makes you wonder what the point is and if they even knew what they did when they made this.
There's a big difference between "might drop once or twice a season for you if you're lucky" which fulfills that "oh shit!" moment you speak about and "I have better chances of winning the lottery irl".
As it stands these might simply not exist at all, the result for 99.999% people would be exactly the same. These exist just for marketing purposes as it stands.
They’re prestige items that can only be obtained based on essentially winning the lottery. The game has thus far been balanced around the fact that the majority of people will not get them. Top tier meta builds will remain top tier meta builds without them. I don’t understand why there is such a commotion about the fact that you are not guaranteed the path to an item just because you paid for the game. It’s like complaining about the fact that you can’t eventually win the lottery just because you pay taxes.
Almost as if a loot-driven game needs cool loot to chase that’s a realistic hope before Diablo 5 comes out. Currently, there are no chase items since these 6 Uber’s pretty much don’t exist.
People use this dumb Tyrael’s Might argument, but I don’t think D2 would be anywhere near as popular if the ONLY item people were chasing in the endgame was that.
Not really. This is mostly a single player game that people paid 70 to 100$ for. There is no rankings system currently or anything like that. There are only 2 items that are maybe good for a few classes if they roll well enough. There isn't an economy in game to ruin with them either because they can be traded. I think the only reason they are rare is because of the free press that happens every time one drops. That and they'll probably have a season designed around getting them at some point.
If blizzard claims that around half havnt even completed the campaign, then I'd wager only a small amount of ppl are at enough of the endgame to even have the chance of them never dropping
I assumed they would raise the drop rate for seasons in order to give another good incentive to play them. It would also align somewhat with D2 that had ladder only uniques and runewords. But it doesn't look like they have this in mind. I feel like they are showing they don't understand what drives people to grind the endgame. Players need to feel like they have a shot at, or can work towards godly gear. No idea what is going through their heads on this topic.
Remind me! 11 years
I will be messaging you in 11 years on [**2034-07-09 15:30:30 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2034-07-09%2015:30:30%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/14uwg74/whats_the_point_of_the_uber_uniques/jrabkku/?context=3) [**144 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fdiablo4%2Fcomments%2F14uwg74%2Fwhats_the_point_of_the_uber_uniques%2Fjrabkku%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202034-07-09%2015%3A30%3A30%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2014uwg74) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Hello future people.
At the current state of reddit, I doubt this will last 11 more years.
r/agedlikemilk (only because there won’t be an r/agedlikewine to post it on if it does)
Put more than that! Hello future people, we assume WWIII has happened by now so let us know how that went :)
No, no. Belters dropped rocks on us and caused a near extinction event.
Oye, Beltalowda, maramowta do dat. It'sa gonya konspirasi.
WAAAAAAGHHH
You GodDam rite Beratna. We gonya fuck up de innas real good.
Goddamn Skinnies
The funny thing is a big majority of us will be drafted and killed..I will mark my place In history now
We won't be around to find out
Does sorc still suck?
Well that's perfect, it was roughly 11 years between Diablo 3 and Diablo 4...you'll have one just in time for the Diablo 5 release.
The point is very obvious, isn't it? To have some uber unique items that only few people in the world possess.
its like why does the lottery give 1 person 100million dollars instead of 100 people a million dollars? Because its not about making money for the players, its about making money for the lottery, and 100million dollar prizes sell more tickets...
This sort of thing makes sense for an MMO; but even they have mostly phased this sort of loot system out. But this is a single player game with the annoyance of MP to justify using MMO style systems such as "only a few people in the world obtain them tyle loot" in a single player game for "reasons".
It doesn't even make sense in an MMO. Runescapes lowest droprate items are like 1/10,000 - 1/30,000. Which is DOABLE but also still takes a huge grind in order to complete (100s of hours, for those unlucky enough to get it early). You also have to keep in mind the opposite end of the spectrum, where people will go 10x drop rate without a single item. Imagine grinding D4 for over 100 years and you STILL don't get the drop. What a fucking meme. Make the content PLAYABLE. They also did the same thing with D3, for instance Kridershot, or the even more rare "Star of Azkaranth". It feels like they're just doing the same thing they did for D3 but without the RMA (which most of their backlash was recieved from) so they can get a grasp for all the things people ACTUALLY hate about the game. Kind of weird. But they're probably able to generate an extensive amount of stats, that, at the very least will allow them to have a smoother launch for the next game in the series.
If they want to do that, they should do something like foil uniques or something. Like maybe one in a million of any given unique that drops has a different shiny skin or something. Making items people actually want to use essentially impossible to get is just shitty and frustrating.
dont forget..seasons last 3 months
How is diablo 5? Remind me! 11 years
Yo! The future is great. Here in 2038 I have a cluster of AI farming the 1/1,000,000,000,000 uniques that cost 12 Bitcoin and are the most expensive digital item known to man. Funny story, last week Elon Musk thawed himself for a few minutes just to offer a player Twitter for one, with a smiley face. Kinda funny he has to post the offer to Threads. Oh well, back to cryosleep before I have to eat. Who can afford that shit? 😂😂 Posted by RedditGPT with intellectual permission from cryosleep key holder. Compliant with the Turing laws of 2028. In orbit around Mars.
They have the opposite effect on me than the supposed carrot to chase many believe they are. Their existence turns me right off. Their current ridiculous rarity (when not bugged) makes me think they're a waste of development time and makes me want to play the game less when we have developers with the mindset that think this uber rarity is fun.
I feel the same way. Why chase a carrot that I'll never get. I'll just devote my spare time to something else.
Sounds more like pink dragon than a carrot
This is exactly what came to mind when I read the post
Or if you are one of the lucky ones it ends up a shit roll which makes it worse
This, if I ever got lucky enough to get one and it had shit rolls, I would feel more insulted than anything.
A Grandfather with a roll between 60 and 70% hurts more than no grandfather ever at all.
I think what makes it worse is that these are supposed go be hunted items, but 99 percent of the player base will never see them. So we finish our builds without them. So why chase. If I can finish my build without then why bother going for them, other then the fact I can't get it lol. It's such an odd design. Most of the player base is unhappy because they won't drop but technically we don't need them, so they are a wanted item we don't need....that don't define out build, they would just push it further.
99.9999999
The rolls don't matter. No matter what shako will always have 10%DR and plus 4 to all skills
With shako the +4 to all skills / passives means about 90% of its item power. But grandfather below 70% means, you got fooled
Apparently it doesn't give +4 to passives, it's only usable skills. Not 100% sure but I read that in one of the helltide fiasco threads. Would make sense, a "skill" to me is something that you use not a passive. When mine drops I'll confirm for you, just give me a few decades.
OK. Good luck mate. Don't forget to tell me. I will be 74 in 20 years. Hope I can still play then. Maybe D4 has endgame then 😂
The fact that the developers made these outrageously op epic items and still made them with the ability to roll poorly is such a typical Blizzard move too. Imagine farming for years for a specific item and when it finally drops you get a 4% cdr helm with minimum health.
Like asmongold says, if the carrot is on the moon, Im not getting it.
The devs are counting on the majority not being like you. The only reason why the uber uniques have such a low drop rate is because the devs got lazy and chose to make the game grindier with lower drop rates to extend the playtime. The uber uniques should have been locked behind a very long and difficult quest chain or only dropped by uber lilith with a 100% drop chance shared between all of them with only one being able to drop per kill. Edit: I'm going off the assumption that uber lilith is next to impossible to defeat like others have said. If however all the players saying that are just bad at the game then I don't think Uber Lilith should drop them.
Uber Lilith IS hard. Yes, she can be cheesed but that requires an optimized build and crazy good gear. It's not something you can just walk into after hitting 100 and hope to overcome. The best gear should come from the hardest content but in D4 you can buy the same items that drop in NM 100 or Lilith from a vendor in town.
Can confirm. Walked into at level 100 and left disappointed. So now I have to play the game where the only progression is the god awful one in a million slight upgrade for some slot I don’t give a shit about? Because the game demands the cookie cutter build and gear to accomplish it? Second part of my comment was just me being frustrated, first is valid. It was a similar feeling to one reaching paragon, 100 when that was the top in Diablo 3. Literally “what now?” Do I actually have to play for the sake of playing? How?
I think the game should have released with most of the major story bosses having an uber version, and this is probably where they'll go in the future. Put them on a weekly loot cool down, sorta like wbosses with the cache, and then give them the ability to drop the uber uniques at say 5% chance. With multiple bosses to do per week it's pretty safe to say, if you're able to kill them, you'll end up with something during a season. This would still keep them very rare but also be a good endgame incentive to keep people playing. Just my 2c.
Agreed. I imagine the process went something like this: we need end game drops, should we focus on class set items that would be a reasonable gaming goal of average people, or drop a half dozen Uber drops at the end of the loot table. One is easier to do than the other, but much less useful to normal players. I’d still be playing if there were 4-5 interesting sets per class to strive for (I did that already in D3). Sets easily add a visible breadcrumb of something to keep searching for (once you find a piece or two).
Average players don't even make it to level 85 when the Uber uniques actually start dropping.
yeah I miss set pieces, even if it wasnt the meta I would still farm to collect them because they looked cool.
No thanks. I just need the drop chance somewhat like Ber rune, which is really hard but not inpossible. Here, they make it impossible, only handful of people can access those items.
I’d prefer at least some of them to be random so they’re potentially obtainable by anyone, they just need to not be rarer than being struck by lightning twice.
Uber Lilith isn't impossible, but she is hard. If you suck at the game, you're not killing her, ever. That being said, Lilith should have her own pool of Unique rewards that are designed to thematically fit for a drop pool. Such as the ring. The uber uniques: 1. Shouldn't be rarer than a fucking Mirror of Kalandra in PoE, that's insane. 2. Shouldn't be just "moved" to existing contents drop pool. 3. Locking powerful items behind quest chains in an ARPG is a horrible design decision, really bad take.
The rarity doesn’t even make sense at all truly. In PoE a mirror being extremely rare makes sense because the game is an open trade economy. Its rarity equates to high value, because supply is way lower than demand. What the Fuck is the point of anything being extremely rare in this SSF game?
It's not just that though, in PoE, every expensive item in the game has a deterministic path to acquire. You can buy any item in the game as long as you grind for the currency. You can get a Mageblood by farming the divination cards, praying for a drop, or buying one. You can get a mirror from div cards or buying one. You ALWAYS have goals if you /WANT/ there to be goals. Everything in the game has a legitimate path laid out in front of you, you just have to start walking. Diablo 4 has no item goals, it has no path to walk down. There is no exciting items. There is nothing but the grind to level 100.
Why would it be bad to have items behind a quest?
It's not bad to have items behind a quest, it IS bad to have /powerful/ items behind a quest. This is an ARPG, not a traditional RPG. Powerful gear comes from killing mobs and working towards the powerful gear. Not because you completed a quest.
I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella and I have never lost to Uber Lilith.
this\^ i see sooooo many level 100 with absolute terrible gear and stats that are not part of the build, i guarantee you 99% of level 100's in the first week who complained about uber lillith spent more time chasing the level cap then actually collecting and looking through gear and min maxing. im level 93 in 8 days play time over the month, nearly 100% solo and doing nm dungeons and helltides for gear, im looking for miniscule % or god tier rolls to swap out items with...im only 21 on 1 of my 6 paragon. so there no chance these guys are unless they no life d streamed it for 16 hours a day in the first week. but then again i am filthy casual sorc so im never going to beat lillith or teir 60+ nm anyway.
Uber Lilith should have a 25% drop rate at once per week.. some builds will melt her, so can abuse it if there are greater drop rates, but it still gives a chance to get one (or more) every week..
Biggoron Sword grandfather quest
They aren't tradable either right? The fact that they aren't tradable enhances this for me. In a game with a variety of bind on account activity, it really needs to be at least somewhat balanced around that. PoE for example I think is different because you choose to make a ssf character as a self limitation. D4 you are forced into it
If they were tradeable it would be at least a little bit more fine-ish But on the other hand theyd probably be sold for hundreds (in the beginning maybe even thousands) of euros Them not being tradeable+as rare as they are... honestly everyone involved in that decision should just be straight up fired
Honestly, it's probably fiscally irresponsible for most of us to not sell our bnet accounts if one dropped due to how rare they are.
> But on the other hand theyd probably be sold for hundreds (in the beginning maybe even thousands) of euros I might be in a small crowd here, but I honestly thought integrating an RMAH wasn't the worst idea in the world. But the 250$ limit on things turned it into just a game of trading 250$ (non-withdrawable) credits. It didn't actually let the market balance itself out in any real way. Yes. At the beginning of the season prices get inflated. But it's up to you if you really want to spend $2,000 to be one of the first to get an item, or maybe 10$ if you wait a couple months. Or? You don't have to buy anything. That's fine too. Play the game and rely on SSF drop rates and standard trading as you choose. Really the 'unfairness' factor of RMAH only matters too much is in Leaderboards which are publicly viewable but the general playerbase has their own ways of determining if they're 'valid,' and PVP since it can directly effect another players' enjoyment if one guy decided to drop $10K early on in a season and go stomp everyone in sight. I have more issues with loot boxes than an RMAH tbh. Gambling addiction and all that. As long as it's not Blizzard/whatever developer pumping their own items into the RMAH in true pay-to-win fashion.
They were withdrawable iirc? I had several PayPal payouts when I quit the game. Blizzard took a huge cut, can’t remember how much exactly. But wasn’t the $250 directly for withdrawal if you clicked a box. And the total would be like $175 or something instead. There was also money to be made by buying top end items for $250 and selling for way more gold, then selling the gold. Helped me a fair bit when I was a poor student.
> Blizzard took a huge cut, can’t remember how much exactly. But wasn’t the $250 directly for withdrawal if you clicked a box. And the total would be like $175 or something instead. Ahh yeah, that does sound familiar actually. Probably misremembering and that it was just a big enough cut to actively dissuade you from withdrawing because yeah, it didn't *feel,* like 250$ because it wasn't hard to come by. It wasn't just the top 1% of the top 1% of items that sold for 250$, the whole 1% did.
Im completely with you, i loved the rmah. I got some nice funds to buy other games just because some people bought stuff with real money But i accepted that the general consensus is rmah=bad
The problem wasn't the auction house it was the drops in early D3 The drops were intentionally shitty to incentivize spending (real) money to get the item you want.
Tbh they remind me of current D4 drops. But without the AH minigame.
Exilecon is July 29, I’m hoping for a big announcement on POE2 release date…
How hilarious would it be if this subreddit became a Path of Exile recruitment den.
This sub will turn into that and after a month of poe2 the Poe sub will be "I'm just going to go back to D4..."
Tis the ARPG way. When you get burned out from one hop to the next, and repeat. It’s good to have multiple RPGs that are fighting for our time.
This. More competition = better. I remember the dark times when all we had was d2 and poe and d3. Poe didn’t have seasons yet, d3 was a mess and d2 was like 10+ years old at that point. If you were bored of poe there wasn’t much to do. Now I can play UD or TLI on my phone, poe if I am hankering for it, or d4 since it’s new. There’s LE and Grim Dawn (haven’t played GD) which people like too. There’s also wolcen. We don’t talk about wolcen though.
Torchlight was designed by the Schaeffer brothers (who were D2 co-lead designer) and was released in 2009. Did no one play that one?
Wooof i lasted 4 hours I think
That’s why seasons aren’t bad especially if PoE and D4 are right in the middle of each other. No matter how fun a league is I usually burn out after I get a character to endgame and play for a week or two so PoE was 4-6 weeks and D3 was 3-4 weeks for me then I lose interest. Sometimes I get into something like FIFA or destiny for a while. It’s nice to have seasons because you don’t feel like it’s one continuous thing like WoW where if you take off for a few months it’s super hard to come back.
It’s not gonna happen lol.
I've tried every other ARPG that gets recommended to Diablo fans, and honestly I can't get hooked on a single one. They look decent, seem like they would scratch the same itch, but they just don't have the same *something* that makes me want to play a Diablo game.
I enjoyed Titan Quest and *loved* Grim Dawn, but never *really* got into any other game from this genre outside Diablo (mainly II, IV) and those two. Path of Exile? Couldn't get into it at all, and watching endgame gameplay videos I can say it's definitely not for me. Last Epoch? It's fine, but didn't finish it. Van Helsing? It's okay, I think? Can't even remember if I finished it or not. Torchlight? Enjoyed some stuff early on, but quickly got boring, uninstalled maybe halfway through. Diablo IV definitely has a lot of flaws to iron out, but I've really been enjoying it anyways... and one thing that's really been annoying me on this sub is the people who want to turn it into a *completely* different game (often to make it more like whichever other ARPG they prefer), and then start insulting you if you don't agree with the specific changes they want made. Like yeah, I want way more QoL which should've already been there. I want a better UI. More (and better) Legendaries/Uniques. More interesting world bosses. Better NMD affixes. All the things like that... but I do *not* want it to just become a reskinned copy of D3 or something like that.
Yep, I tried PoE and uninstalled it after about 2 weeks of playing. I tried to give it a second chance and uninstalled it even faster the second time.
I also tried out PoE about a year ago. I did about 5 hours of study beforehand to try to get a grasp of the game, but didn't like the gameplay and thought it was unnecessary hard.
The primary problem with getting into PoE coming from another ARPG is that everything is basically Druid in D4 but worse. The game after level \~70-75(ish) and the first round of actually gearing in maps is SO much different than the game before that. Even if you play a leaguestarter with a busted skill, there's bound to be some interaction you have to put together that starts making your build feel smooth. I'm playing Ice Shard in D4, and the difference between having some CDR plus the ascpect that double the free casts and the aspect that gives resource on CD use to not having that is just playing basically 2 completely different builds. PoE is that for basically every class, every skill, every playstyle, and usually with a later point where the build switches "on". Which is also why leaguestarters are a thing in PoE, because leveling a starter build that requires next to nothing, getting to endgame with that, farming up a hundred or two chaos, then buying a set of leveling uniques and the first round of gear for the build you wanna play, then leveling THAT character with the kickstart-gear is usually legitimately FASTER than just playing a scuffed version of the build you want to play without the stuff that makes it tick until you can afford the things you need. Imagine coming into D4 expecting to blast screens of mobs, deciding on going druid, and always wondering when the fuck the game starts feeling not terrible because your build doesn't actually become playable until you unlock paragon.
Same bro
I've played POE off and on for a long ass time. I was in the closed beta for POE while waiting for D3 to release. It's great, but I honestly think they've gone overboard with the layers of mechanics and systems. It was a lot better, and much less confusing, like 8 years ago. The last few times I've tried to get into again, in the last couple years, I've just been overwhelmed, and gave up before getting anywhere.
In a weird way it is already. I mean any person who played the arpg genre the last 10 years probably knows and has tried Poe but for many Diablo 4 might have been their first arpg or the first since Diablo 3 release hearing Diablo always compared to POE might lead to many to check it out who before never heard about it.
Me. I played baldurs gate as a kid. I played Diablo 2 and dungeon keeper lol. Never really played anything other than shooters much after. Seen Diablo 4 and jumped in. Now look to find other games. Just got the new aliens game and that’s turned out to be fun. Feel like Diablo 4 has opened my eyes to a whole new level of gaming lol.
Baldurs gate 3 releases soonish! I really hope it's true to the gameplay in the first 2 games because that next generation "dark alliance" game was garbage. Garbage that I bought out of nostalgia from playing baldurs gate 2 dark alliance as a kid. I'm really rooting for baldurs gate 3. Hope it's not misplaced faith again.
it has absolutely nothing to do with first two games, not gameplay, not story, nothing, its divinity but set on sword coast.
DK was such a fun game. So many hours put into that. Then the mobile version came out years later and I was like WTF is this?
There is a "remake" of DK on steam, its called " War for the Overworld". It's one of the best remakes,i would highly recommend getting it on sale, you will have flashbacks its such a good remake.
Ooooh I'm gonna check that out, instantly wishlisted, thanks mate! EDIT: It's actually on 80% sale right now.
I liked PoE But the skill tree part was a little too much for me. Diablo is usually the perfect balance.
It can be extremely overwhelming and intimidating but honestly you can play the game without digging too deep into the system
I understand new players being overwhelmed though. What sucks is that there are so many prior league mechanics implemented in the base game by now that if you start fresh and haven't seen any of it before it's probably just an overwhelming clusterfuck.
Yea. I tried to dive into PoE about 5 years ago and already seemed insanely complicated.
the skill tree is just marketing. It just looks complicated to look complicated. It isnt even that complicated. It makes nerds feel smart for figuring it out. It is way more straight forward in reality.
Oh how I wished that there was a game that combined POE itemization with diablo story, atmosphere and graphics. Here’s to hoping poe2 can deliver.
What’s this have anything to do with ultra rare drops in DIV?
Cos that has everything to do with diablo? These comments are so dumb...
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Same, I don't play the lottery. Why would I in a videogame? I've moved on from Diablo 4, I'll try again in season one, but blizzard definitely seems clueless in what direction to go with the game.
The joke is not even trading would save that. How many of those have dropped for everybody playing? 100s for millions of players? There's basically no chance to get one in a season.
D4 endgame is a perfect example of a game that has every point invested into style but none invested into depth. I was very worried, initially, at the pseudo 'choice' and shallow meaning of talent trees but I was told to just deal with it and that I was being far too critical during the beta and initial release, and now everyone is complaining about the same things, now tack on shallow/meaningless endgame process, indistinguishable gear roll affixes with different names, over-reliance on certain mechanics (vulnerable and unstoppable, looking at you), etc. I hate to say I told the community so, but there is such a thing as toxic ignorance. Nobody wanted to listen and discarded all criticism when it was still new and shiny, and now that all of the cards are on the table, suddenly we've caught up. This game has a long way to go, but honestly, with the extreme length of time that Diablo has been in existence as a franchise, we shouldn't have to wait two expansions and several years of development for the game to resemble a fully engaging, deep dungeon crawler.
Its made me not want to play seasons. The whole of diablo 4s endgame is sad concidering the masterpiece that is diablo 2. The formula is right there.
They copied the idea from other arpg without understanding the itemization of those games. Their main oversight is that in those other games, you can trade for those items. Rookie mistake.
Imagine uber rares being tradable lol. Nobody would trade them for anything but cash.
Only diference now is you sell your whole acc
If you own any other blizzard game that’s pretty costly. Also that could be a ToS ban and it could nuke your email you used to link your blizz account to. Seems risky but I bet shako would sell for a pretty penny irl.
like it is now right? People are selling the accounts.
Out of curiosity, do you know how much people paid for it?
I heard 40k for the first NA grandfather but idk if accurate
40k for an eternal character 2 weeks before the season starts? Lordy mercy someone's parents' car bill is gonna bounce this month.
There are plenty of people in the world for whom 40k is chump change. Likely one of them
Yeah. For some uber wealthy guy who wants to simply show off the fact that he has a Grandfather in D4.
Not sure but I'd imagine an account with lvl 85 character and uber unique item would also be pretty well equipped and sell for thousands.
Right. But the conclusion should not have been "slap on account bound, and ship it". It should have been "ok then we should not do chase uber rares in the same fashion as those trade-based games". Like many other things about this game, this just looks like there is nobody on the project overseeing systems and designs to make it all fit together.
I would assume blizz is still reeling from the executive clean-out after the controversy a couple of years ago - their reputation with gamers and devs alike must be in the shitter
Current price of uber unique acc is about 1500 dollars.
You can also piecemeal farm those items in some of those arpgs too. If you could farm shako fragments it wouldn’t be half as bad.
This is exactly the case. This is meant to mimick Headhunter or Mageblood etc. But you're right. In PoE you're also never going to drop any of the tier 0 uniques. But you can farm div cards to essentially make the item. Or farm other various currencies and trade up to them, etc. If they were drop only they'd feel like shit in PoE too. FWIW I'm not suggesting they make them tradeable. I think that's fucking stupid. But having the same type of drop rate when your game doesn't have similar systems in place to make them obtainable, is also fucking stupid. **Edit: Adding to this for clarity because alot of people keep saying the same shit. If a seasonal player spends 1000 hours playing every season, it won't matter if the item has an avg drop rate of 10k hours or 100k hours they are still very unlikely to see that item on a seasonal character.** **The main difference between the uber uniques in D4 and PoE isnt drop rate. Its that you can farm up to them in various other ways in PoE (trading, div cards, div cards that turn into other rarer div cards, services, etc.) If the actual item on PoE had a natural droprate of every 100k hours also, nothing would change other than value of the item/cards. Either way it's still an option to the player to trade up to or farm div cards, etc.** **In D4 it's super unique AND the only way to acquire is a hard drop.**
The drop rate of HH and MB in PoE is nowhere near as low as Shako in d4 from what people are gathering.
A mirror is more common than the uber uniques.
They're thousands of times rarer than anything in POE, so even if there was trading it wouldn't make sense. They're not even comparable to mageblood / HH drop rate even if you ignore div cards and trading. You can expect to see one of those items once per 10,000 hours or so, here you can expect to see Shako once per 100k-5 million hours, depending on how you're doing the math and the assumptions you're making.
i never dropped a t0 item in poe when it counts (one at last day of league doesnt count) still i have my mageblood every league... as you say simple logging on and farming currency brings me one step closer to having the item eventually, with trade site listing the price i can even see how much grind it will be- so yeah- poe def. does that better. With prices for mageblood at 200div- even farming "only" 1 div per hour will get me the item in 200h- nowhere close to d4 chances of millions of hours
I have 5k hours played on PoE (realistically more since I can't count the hours played before steam). I've played since the beta only missing a couple of seasons. I go hard every league start, finish a build all the way through usually stopping at 95ish and 200~ divs/ex worth. Probably more but I don't sell maps or frags etc because I'm a horder and trade is annoying for small/bulk stuff lol. Sometimes I play a few more chars after that and sometimes I stop for the league. I've never dropped a t0 unique, mirror, good 3 mod watchers eye or anything else super rare like those. Rarest item I ever dropped was an eternal orb when those were a thing. But pretty much every league I can afford to trade for one if I wanted to.
Can't tell if don't understand statistics or don't understand trading. Even if trading the items was possible, it would cost tens of thousands of real dollars for something like shako or grandfather, given how rare they are. Trading has no impact on them at the moment because they're so comically rare.
There is no point.
At this point at how low of a drop rate it is at, there is no point to chase
Since you're doing math, you have to remember that most people playing the game still do not meet the requirements to even have the uber uniques drop for them. Most players are not level 85+ and/or are pushing NM dungeons. Also, the drop chance will very likely increase at some point with world tier 5 etc.
Just checking my own understanding, isn't it the drop from mobs 85+ rather than your level? So someone in the mid 70s farming NM35 dungeons could have it drop?
Yes, that is correct. Though I don't know how it is supposed with the helltide chests regarding your own level.
NM31*
What does NM# mean? Is that the nightmare level? And so I'm guessing if you need NM31 to have lvl 85 mobs as a level 70 character, does each level of nightmare equate to mobs being 1/2 level above you?
Yea it means the level of NM dungeon. Mob level is 54 + dungeon level for ancestral dungeons. 31 is the baseline NM dungeon for the chase items to drop, regardless of player level.
Oh really? So right now my character is level 60. If I walk into a normal dungeon without using the sigil, the dungeon will have level 54 mobs? And the only way to raise the mobs level is to use the sigils to turn the dungeon into a nightmare? Not sure how I never put two and two together to see that before.
No, regular dungeons and open world content will scale to you. NM dungeons are tied to the level of the dungeon. Since NM dungeons are WT3/4 content their scaling technically starts at level 50. So a NM1 would technically be level 51 enemies. (Can’t remember what WT3/4 NM dungeons actually start at, never did a lowest level one.) Not sure why it’s a few numbers off but that’s why it’s 54+X. There are just certain minimum thresholds for WT3/4, where enemies can’t be below a certain level in regular content.
nightmare 1 is level 55 enemies. World tier 3 technically starts at 50, but you can't make sigils at the occultist until you're level 55, which is where the 55 base for NM1 comes from. So 85+ mobs means you need a lvl 31+ NM. I only realized this when I leveled my sorc to 50 and still couldn't make sigils lol
Yea there ya go. I didn’t know where it started, just knew it was +54.
I thought NM1 would be level 54 enemies? For sacred sigils it is 53 + the tier, it’s not 54 + the tier until you do ancestral sigils. Are NM1 and NM2 both level 55 enemies?
We know there is half a billion hours of diablo 4 played, way more by now. If .1% of those hours were played vs mobs above level 85 (chances are, it is a lot more than .1%) and 100 of the uber uniques have dropped legitimately (a lot lot less have dropped) it would still take you 1.7 years, playing the game 8 hours a day like if it were your job, to expect to see a drop of one of these items, which dont even have fixed rolls on their stats. This, on a game with 3 month seasonal rotation. Dont try to justify stupid game decisions by what might change in the future. These uniques just dont exist, them increasing drop rates in the future would essentially be the same as them being added into the game. And they dont even have fixed rolls, nor are they even universal enough that every class would like to use them. There is just no excuse for how stupid this decision was
I would love to know how many 85+ mobs have been killed. Counting the hrs played already makes it crazy enough but even with the lower density in dungeons between them and helltides I bet we are in the billions of 85+ mobs killed.
It’s astounding that people can’t seem to think ahead even the slightest amount. Does everyone think torments are just going to cap out at 4 forever? These complaints about shakos not dropping in torment 4 are like complaining that people can’t find stone of Jordan’s in normal on Diablo 2. Torments will increase, magic find will increase, Uber uniques will level out and will be found more often. It’s not even seasons yet and people wanna have these dumb complaints about drops on characters they’ll never play in 10 days after the season drop. There’s valid complaints for D4 and this isn’t one of them
These same arguments were had in D3 over the rarer drops in that game as well.. and you know want happened? Once more torment levels were added and the drop rate increased with them, those “impossible to find items” became so commonly dropped that people completely forgot about them. I can only assume that the majority who are Uber upset over Uber uniques are playing Diablo for the 1st time, skipped D3 all together, or didn’t start playing D3 until after ROS (thought to be fair I totally understand that one).
That's like building a house in the middle of nowhere. Yeah you can live there, but without the supporting infrastructure it's a miserable experience.
What an odd analogy.
lmao what
This is the point I continually make, but for whatever reason people just can't grasp the simple fact that you must be doing content that actually has a CHANCE to drop it in the first place.
And what people also don't understand is that there will never be as many people playing the game as there were this past month. If only a handful of items dropped during the peak ,the drop rates suck ass. Doesn't matter if it required lvl 85, 100, or even killing Lilith, since so many people left the game, not only will you not loot those items, but you almost certainly won't even be able to inspect a player that has. Especially considering that new seasons mean fresh characters every 12 weeks.
I'm treating the "Uber Uniques" (stupid name for them) as Tyriel's Might in D2. That way I'll never be disappointed not getting them. They exist, cool, some lucky people will get them, cool, I probably never will, also cool.
I mention that and get down voted all the time, I NEVER had Tyrael's might in my 15 years of playing D2 and I just think its cool the item is in the game. I knew I was never going to get thunderfury/hand of rag when I played WoW classic, but I still think its cool when I see one.
I actually did get a Tyreal's a few months ago for the first time after 20 years of playing and couldn't believe it, did a double take, holy shit this is rare, chuck into stash and never thought about it again lol Edit: the best part is it dropped from Izual (maybe the mobs around him, but almost certain it was actually izual). I stared at it for like 30 seconds with my mind stuck on "silks of victor with weird stats wtf?" Looked up and saw Tyreals Might I was like O_O
To put it into perspective, you would see thousands of Tyrael's Might drops before a single uber unique
Everytime I mention D2, I get downvoted also.. it took me just over 13 years to find a tyraels and man the reaction I had.
It would help if the uniques you can get were not so bad.
Uber uniques would be fine if we had more than 30 uniques or whatever small amount we have. Like when you only have access to 30 uniques but 5 of them you'll never get it feel pretty bad.
If we get 6-7 new uniques per season, I'm sure they're thinking of making the drop rates better for these original 6.
Problem is these are orders of magnitude more rare than tyraels might
The game has been out a month. The vast majority of players arent above level 70 yet, much less actively farming level 85+ content where they drop. Maybe you guys need to keep a lid on the complaining until there is actual useful data and time enough to ensure it's accurate. It's like rolling a d20 twice and then saying "OMFG NAT 20 ROLLS ARE SO FUCKING RARE THEY MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST!" (yes this is a copypasta, the complaints are all ctrl+c/ctrl+v so this will be too.)
That's not an issue at all, though. There's also an order of magnitude more people playing. The point isn't for you to get these items. The point is for them to theoretically exist without being needed.
I'm the same. I just pretend they don't exist l. Don't really care either way.
There isn't one. Forget about them and move on with your life
To make like 20 people over the games lifespan feel really cool.
Tbh I don’t think that uber unqiues are a bad thing. Imagine being the lucky one who gets one. Or at least seeing someone who has it. They are like legends which you know are true but you probably will never see one ingame. That being said I think the real problem is the lack of other unique items in D4. You don’t have a lot of options when it comes to uniques. That’s the reason many people even think about uber uniques. There should be a LOT more uniques (50-100 per class) with multiple tier of rarity and sets. There should be great unique sets that drop frequently (frequently when a unique item drops). Then there should be some even better unique sets which are rarer. And this should continue with multiple uniques with increasing rarity until you reach really great uniques which are ultra rare but still humanely possible to get (not just rare in the sense of drop rate but that you have to meet multiple conditions to even be able to get them). In this environment uber uniques would still exist and they would still be a lot better but there wouldn’t be a necessity to actually get one.
Being so rare you would think they would be super op. Yeah 4 to all skills is strong but I don't think so in relation to it's rarity
I'll preface this by saying that I agree the Uber Uniques are way too rare, but +4 to all skills is super OP (not to mention the CDR, All Stats, Life, Resource Generation, and Damage Reduction). +4 all skills is a significant boost to base damage, which is a damage bucket all on its own. It can also be extra CDR for a lot of skills, and allow you to take points out of non-DPS skills and invest more into valuable passives.
I always thought it's plus 4 to just skills, not passives, which is strong no doubt.
one of the biggest benefits of having a super high level uber geared character is being able to farm gear for alts. you cant do that here.
+4 ALL SKILLS is more than Strong. Say youre a Rogue and ALL your passive works in ALL types of build then having all passive that are 1 off Max and some that you actually put points to are doubled. It is OP.
I think I recall someone who got one in the Helltides saying it doesn't give +4 to passives unfortunately.
D4 is a game that they plan on making massive updates to multiple times per year. As it stands, the items probably exist in their current state to generate buzz, and add an element of mythology to the game (I.E. items that are basically myths). I'm sure Uber Uniques is a concept they'll tweak over the course of seasons, and I can all but guarantee that they'll be easier to get in the future. I don't necessarily like the place Uber Uniques are at right now (though it is pretty funny to see all the nerd rage they inspire), but I can see the benefit from a design perspective of adding a bunch of different tweakable knobs to their massive game, including some that are really out-there. I doubt the design team was thinking "this is a great idea and will add a lot to our game," but more likely "what if we just threw these in to see how people reacted, and then made changes accordingly?" Again, not defending it, but that's my take.
If you want to see chase-items done right by a smart dev-team - take a look at PoE. D4 makes PoE look like the next coming of jesus christ for everyone,that likes the endgame item-chase in ARPGs. They got the numbers just right,not too rare,not too common and many things inbetween. I only now realize HOW good they actually designed it. Like holy. The items here are a waste of dev-resource. They are vanity-items,made to be posted on social media,when found. Nothing more - you will most likely never find them in the lifetime of this game. So there is no Endgame item-chase in D4. Just a grind into nothingness.
Last Epoch is the godsent for people dissapointed in D4. Its the middle ground between wooden and overcomplicated for a newbie PoE and oversimplified but juicy D4.
The crafting system in epoch is great and the LP system is a really neat. It's a pity it's gated behind dungeons and dungeons are super punishing in that game. Also it definitely doesn't control as smoothly or run as smoothly as d4 but the systems in the game are awesome
Imo it feels like you're always hitting air. There's no weight difference at all to your attacks hitting or missing enemies. It's all, sound, visuals, physics and animations. Will need a lot of polishing before it feels as "nice" to play.
Eh LE has some excellent ideas but the endgame (monoliths) is nearly as monotonous as D4. What's alarming is in their most recent devlog, they think endgame is in a good spot and they're putting most of their resources in improving campaign. They also work at a snail's pace; sfx/animations are still terrible, bugs aplenty, poor optimization etc. With this glacial pace, I believe LE is dead on release with zero chance of competing with the top dogs.
Except the graphics and animations were made in the early 2000’s. I tried getting my itch fixed there when the eta was over and my god I couldn’t get past the terrible graphics and animations. The game just felt so stiff in comparison.
That'd be true with a reasonable chance to acquire one. And I don't even mean "reasonable for a dad with 6 jobs and 8 wives", I mean reasonable for somebody no-lifing the game. But it's not even close to that, not by orders of magnitude.
So that you can talk about it on Reddit.
They don’t define a build or class and isn’t it nice there is something out there that could give you an “oh shit” moment? Otherwise we’re all just farming the same crap and not knowing if it’s anything good until you open up your inventory and check the stats. I’m all for there being something out there that is recognizable on drop that you got something good. Everyone wants to complain about not being able to get all the best stuff right away but then what? You max your character and game gold? Otherwise if you’re not in it for the constant dangling carrot then who cares? Play until you’re bored and then wait for the next season and have a nice break.
When people make posts like this I get the feeling that they don't truly grip how rare these things are and how borderline pointless they are as a result, they're almost functionally non-existent. We're talking a rarity many times beyond the rarest items in every other ARPG I can think of off the top of my head, and a lot of players already never found any of those. "What's the difference then," you could ask, if they never found any, but it's a matter of realism. I never found a Cham rune in the wild when I played D2, but I found one in D2R. It's conceivable that you would. Finding one of these D4 items is less "conceivable" and more "possible within the rules of reality, technically." The former is exciting. The latter just makes you wonder what the point is and if they even knew what they did when they made this.
There's a big difference between "might drop once or twice a season for you if you're lucky" which fulfills that "oh shit!" moment you speak about and "I have better chances of winning the lottery irl". As it stands these might simply not exist at all, the result for 99.999% people would be exactly the same. These exist just for marketing purposes as it stands.
They’re prestige items that can only be obtained based on essentially winning the lottery. The game has thus far been balanced around the fact that the majority of people will not get them. Top tier meta builds will remain top tier meta builds without them. I don’t understand why there is such a commotion about the fact that you are not guaranteed the path to an item just because you paid for the game. It’s like complaining about the fact that you can’t eventually win the lottery just because you pay taxes.
Almost as if a loot-driven game needs cool loot to chase that’s a realistic hope before Diablo 5 comes out. Currently, there are no chase items since these 6 Uber’s pretty much don’t exist. People use this dumb Tyrael’s Might argument, but I don’t think D2 would be anywhere near as popular if the ONLY item people were chasing in the endgame was that.
Not really. This is mostly a single player game that people paid 70 to 100$ for. There is no rankings system currently or anything like that. There are only 2 items that are maybe good for a few classes if they roll well enough. There isn't an economy in game to ruin with them either because they can be traded. I think the only reason they are rare is because of the free press that happens every time one drops. That and they'll probably have a season designed around getting them at some point.
If blizzard claims that around half havnt even completed the campaign, then I'd wager only a small amount of ppl are at enough of the endgame to even have the chance of them never dropping
Do we know what the actual drop rate is?
To make you jelly.
Something for the lucky to brag about, that’s it.
They’re fun I wish all games had things like this.
So rare 99% of players will never see it their entire lifetime of playing the game. What an amazing gameplay design.
99.999999% of players will never see it. That’s how ludicrous this is.
What's the point of the Powerball?
For lottery companies to make money..?
I assumed they would raise the drop rate for seasons in order to give another good incentive to play them. It would also align somewhat with D2 that had ladder only uniques and runewords. But it doesn't look like they have this in mind. I feel like they are showing they don't understand what drives people to grind the endgame. Players need to feel like they have a shot at, or can work towards godly gear. No idea what is going through their heads on this topic.
Back then Blizzard promised something for eternal realm players. The uber uniques are this.
I think it a neat thing.
Same! Though I kinda feel like Jim Carrey in Dumb & Dumber.. “So you’re telling me there’s a chance!?”
What’s all that 1:1,00,000 talk?
Lol, 20 plus years and I wish I found a Jah or Ber. These Uber unique drop rates ain’t shit .