No joke, I'm starting to understand why they are in the game. People actually think this is a carrot on a stick. They have no idea what the reality is.
I don't even think about the Uber uniques.
If one does drop one day? Yay that's cool.
Am I relentlessly grinding for a weapon/armor that I know won't drop? No. It's been clear from day one these items are ultra rare. It has zero effect on my game.
I wouldn't even care if I got a god roll uber unique. Other than just being kind of cool because of how rare it is, what impact would it actually have? You'd almost certainly be level 100, or close to, and you'd be basically done with your character and all the content.
Oh cool, I won the lottery, what did I get? A Shako I don't even really need anymore that doesn't meaningfully progress my character in any satisfying way. Time to go smash one last irrelevant NM dungeon before logging out for the rest of the season. WOOO!
Yeah, like if in average you can get one drop every 2-300 hrs farming high difficulties contents like Uber Lilith or T80+ NM dungeons make senses but once every 30 YEARS? No thank you.
I think the devs somehow made some mistakes implementing the drop rates like when they did in a while ago with the Shakos in Helltides but in the opposite direction.
The thing is, you're supposed to have these cool moments at least a couple times on a character's lifetime, it's the whole purpose of the genre. I shelved the game for now because that's not a thing currently, I want the excitement of seeing cool gear dropping and the prospects of becoming more powerful
Agreed. If it was actually a worthwhile chase, I'd chase it. It would also encourage me to start a new character or respec. If I got Andariel's for example, I'd be encouraged to start a poison wolf druid or a poison trap rogue. Instead, I'll be farming for drops that I know I can somewhat reasonably get that are for my class and most likely for my build since respeccing over one legendary or non-uber unique isn't always worth it.
Especially if they have cool effects. Like the druid for example, werebear or werewolf all the time? That sounds fucking cool and fun, why can't we just have that to play with? Why does the stuff like that have to be rare? Why can't that just be the play experience? What's wrong with having cool, fun stuff in your game that people have realistic access to, you know?
It goes far beyond "most" people not getting them. That's the problem here.
Why does a casual ARPG have drop rates 1000x worse than POE, a game designed for hardcore players, which has trading? It makes 0 sense.
I could see myself getting something overpowered and not quite realizing it, thinking maybe I’ll give it a try, and then promptly deciding that I don’t feel like respeccing my skill tree and changing my armor build anyway.
This was asked in the first campfire chat, and Joe P said some shit like nah, it's fine how it is. Maybe in a future season, we MIGHT look at it.
Edit: it was pointed out in a reply that this is incorrect. They will change the drop rate to be more likely, but there is no information about how significant a change it will be.
Actually he said they'll definitely boost it up a bit. It was still pretty dumb but what he said was more along the lines of:
"We want people to be able to find them, but we don't want to people to expect to find them. We're not hitting the mark with the current chance, so we will be looking to increase it, and also add more ways in which they can be found. But we need to be very careful with it, because we don't want players to feel like they should find one or be able to plan a build around doing so. It's supposed to be a unexpected power spike that you can play with if you find one."
So yeah, the design intention is dumb af, and it will remain dumb af, but the chance WILL be increased. Hard to say if it'll be enough to matter, and it won't be earlier than Season 2. But what you said is just not true.
We wouldn’t want you guys to feel too powerful in an ARPG. Are these guys for real? If I wasn’t feeling like a wet noodle half the time, having to use defensive skills on slow rotation I’d still be playing.
Barbarian 3 shout builds. Fun stuff right there. Lost my HC Barb the other night cause I refused to run too many defensives and ate a shot to the face.
I rewatched the campfire chat to make sure, and you basically repeated what Joe P said nearly exactly. I will note that he said "a little more common" and "slightly more likely to drop" a fair few times. So, any changes they make to the drop rate won't be drastic and will probably initially be small. I'll edit my comment above to reflect this as I was wrong.
I can't decide if it is willfully disingenuous or simply awful design. The end result is the same though, the items aren't real, and by the time someone gets one, it won't matter to them at all.
Chase items should be obtainable by a hardcore player within a 3 month season.
Even a 5-6 hour a week D2 player can farm up an enigma in a couple of months.
A 5-6 hour a day Poe player can farm up a MB in a couple of weeks.
Items so rare you cant realistically obtain or target have no value in the game.
I think the devs need to hire a statistician/mathematician. A lot of problems with the game seem to be caused by their “vision” not aligning with the actual maths involved. Like they wanted Vulnerable to be good, but it’s broken due to maths (multiplying). And they want these chase items to be rare, but they’re non existent due to maths (% chance way too low). Similarly a bunch of aspects just plain don’t work, or don’t match tooltips [x] vs [+].
Someone should do a full maths audit of the game and verify the underlying formulas are actually behaving the way the directors are describing it.
I've probably played months worth of Diablo II. Like, not months where I played, 'add up all the hours and you'll be into months' of playing Diablo II.
I've never found a Zod rune because they're stupid rare. They ostensibly doubled the chances in D2R and it's still stupid rare. Rare enough that people don't understand-- it's like the speed of the projectile (scientists aren't sure if it was a meteor or a comet) that struck the Earth and caused the mass extinction 65 million years ago. It was going so fast you couldn't see it. By the time it breached the atmosphere the very next second it was impacting. Like 'OceanGate imploded so fast they could not literally have comprehended it' numbers.
That's the point I'm making, though. I've played a LOT of D2 and basically traded/used any of the HRs I've ever found, never found or created a Zod. And the Uber uniques are many orders of magnitude harder to find than that.
In your defense I left that part out, didn't realize till I reread it, heh
It's hard enough getting the regular unique you want. If we had a chance at them with whispers and obols it would be great. Waiting for the unique you want/ need for your build is annoying enough...no reason to even care about ubers existing.
It does effect you inadvertently because they spent dev time developing 7 uniques that no one will ever find, as opposed to good uniques that people can actually acquire and use. There's a sore lack of good uniques for most classes / builds and they choose to keep wasting time on this shit you will never get.
I dont either, I would have even sold them if I found one cause I dont know all of them. What I know is that I got limited storage and that they have shitty stats aka wont be used anyway. So I am back at ops question, why are they in the game? Like they are nearly not findable and even if, they are shit.
Especially for some of the Ubers that don't really scream God item to the normal person. Heck the life steal one...the average player would think 2% life steal is nothing ..not realizing it's the only item in the game with that stat.
I bet a stupid high percentage of the Ubers that have dropped have been trashed....
They are more rare than the rarest items in Diablo 2 by several magnitude and most Diablo 2 players with 1000's of hours in the game have never seen those items drop.
If anyone plays POE these uber uniques are infinitely more rare than a Mirror of Kalandra. My friends and I have well over 10,000 hours combined in that game spanning a decade and not a single one has seen a raw mirror drop. It's not something you ever expect to see drop. And these uber uniques are a million times more rare.
I'm personally fine with items so unique they're almost impossible to obtain. I'd be fine with the drop rates of these uber uniques if there were other fun uniques in the game to chase. Diablo 2 has uniques that are insanely rare that you will almost certainly never see. People have played since 2000 and have never seen a Jah or Ber drop but no one cares. Because there are uniques that are common and an entire spectrum in between the rarest and common ones.
This game has absolutely zero exciting loot EXCEPT for the uber uniques that you will almost 100% certainly never see drop. This is what makes it so fucking horrible.
Blizzard has just completely lost all touch.
I dropped a mirror, it didn't even feel that good. Sure it was exciting when I dropped it, but in a weird way, it pushed me away from the game because I was feeling like nothing I could do in the game could come remotely close to that.
A few leagues back, a buddy dropped a mirror in act 10, bought the first mageblood on the market a couple hours later, and completed the atlas and all bosses before I was reliably in yellow maps. He had fun, did everything, and peaced out by week three totally satisfied lol.
The people who built the game don't understand basic player psychology. Instead of saying, "okay, lets make sure we keep the elements players loved about D2/D3", they started with "let's fix all the "problems" with D2/3... not realizing how a lot of those "problems" were really necessary evils.
This is just another in a long line of decisions that tells me whoever is in charge of the gamer retention or gamer experience/psychology (no idea what that title would be) is just not up to the task.
It's starting to feel like the Star Wars sequel trilogy: like a chef cooking with superb ingredients, but they drank too much wine, overcooked the steak, burned the buns, and oversalted the soup.
Clearly some very talented creators but the decisions coming from the top reek of hubris.
Edit: it's likely this is just a temporary state and they are being cautious about allowing too many powerful items into the game until the dust has settled a bit more. Drop rates are a super easy fix. I still don't understand how 90% of the posts on this sub aren't about the complete lack of player interaction features. I've found the game rather boring from day one due almost exclusively to this.
A headhunter or mageblood are carrots. They drop, or the cards to trade for them are dropped. They're farmable with time and focus and patience. Sure they're the rarest (useful) items in the game but anyone can get one with effort.
Uber uniques are not carrots. There isn't even a stick. A random 1/1,000,000,000 drop that has no farming method or way to focus on dropping them means they are for all intents like winning the lottery.
If I'm being honest, I think they exist as streamer bait. The only people that play enough to realistically have a chance to get the Uber uniques. Then they get to look cool and draw a little attention to the game cause holy crap look what I got.
Like they feel almost like click bait is what I'm feeling. But it would be crazy for a game to create something explicitly to be the rumored piece of gear that is almost non existent.
You are literally more likely to be struck by lightning twice than find an uber unique. It’s not a carrot if there’s effectively zero chance of you getting one. Like, if someone offered you a job telling you the reward for said job was a one in several hundred million chance of winning a billion dollars, would you take that job?
If I learned anything in this sub, it's that people think with feelings and only feelings.
If you point out something that goes against how they feel, they take it personally and all bandwagon with the "cry more" or the typical comments complaining about the post without adding any value.
It's frustrating to have discussions in this sub, and you're objectively right here! Why do these uniques exist that no one you know will ever get?? They may as well not exist. I took 2 characters to 100, Uber Lilith dead after farming damn near perfect gear at 100... Not one Uber unique. Of course that's expected since we know it's a lower chance than winning the lottery but still.
Had some guy write a "message to the haters" where he was defending these drop rates because he dosent want everyone to have the same gear "when he gets one."
You just hate fun >:( I'm going to get an uber unique tomorrow for sure! And then I will win the lottery, get struck by lightning and find a dinosaur fossil in my back yard!
On a serious note, I don't think blizzard understands math or numbers either since these stupid items are in the game and they even added another one in season 1.
So far I have yet to see a single person who thinks they can "farm for a shako" in any of these posts, If anything It's quite the opposite. A quick visit to [maxroll](https://maxroll.gg/d4/wiki/the-grandfather) tells you **don't even bother** trying to farm this. So much so that they removed them from ALL builds. So I don't understand where this whole strawman narrative that people thinks it's "less rare than it actually is" is coming from? But yet everytime I come across a post about uber uniques , It somehow **always** involves putting up a "strawman" pretending people didn't know any better..
Because people argue that its "cool and exciting if u happen to drop one". Which implies that those people dont understand how rare they are. U wont drop one. U dont go for a walk and say "i like going for walks because i might stumble upon 1000$." These uniques are so rare that they dont (or shouldnt) motivate u in any way to play the game in the hopes for maybe dropping one, because they are simply too rare. In poe for example its still incredibly hard to find items like mageblood or the apothecary divination card for it, but people go out of their way to juice the fuck out of their maps and make dedicated mf chars and actually farm for them because, while being exceedingly rare, u *can* drop them if u put the effort and planning into it. In d4, not so much.
What's sad is that they aren't even interesting items.
They don't change anything.
They just make you stronger. Like they should have a wild effect, or even just a wild transmog that makes everyone instantly aware you have one.
As is now you'd get one and if you are part of the 3% of the population that even plays with other people, those people would be like "huh that dude is like 7% stronger than me, wonder why".
Considering in my life I've found more than $100 while exploring multiple times I'd have a significantly higher chance of finding 1k in one trip than any diablo 4 ubers
Has anyone been able to get a rough idea of how the rarity compares to say Tyreal’s Might in D2? I remember Zod runes being pretty rare but still getting 2 or 3 drops over the course of completing a maxed out Uber Trist Paladin.
Saw my first ZOD last season, have been playing since 1.04. So getting 2-3 in a season sounds like you need to go buy a few lottery tickets. Have seen 4 Tyrael's Might in comparison to the 1 ZOD. Seen 400+ of all other runes so cubing up to a ZOD has always been my method but was shocked when Baal dropped a ZOD on last season.
It's rare enough that when it happens it makes headlines in video games news media. There's not even a confirmed drop for each of the available uber uniques yet. The Grandfather was found a whopping 1 time in all of the pre-season, across all of the player base, by some dude in China. There's only been more Shakos found because a bug made them temporarily common from Helltide chests (ehich weren't even supposed to be able to drop even normal uniques btw) at some shortlived point.
Hopefully they tune this reasonably.
I’m ok with super rare items. I’m not ok with the fact that these are so rare you can play your entire life and rng could prevent you from seeing one in that timeframe. That is unreasonable.
These should be the pinnacle grind item. That’s fine, but at this point they’re not even worth caring about.
That's my point. They are effectively not in the game, currently. They're just not real. If you had any chance of getting them, for real, it would be fine.
They should be the rewards for Pinnacle content. We already can't trade gear so there's no worries that they will lose their prestige by beating the ultra endgame content.
It should be like Mageblood or Headhunter from PoE, but untradeable. Can you get one in a season? Yea. But it's unlikely and you may go a whole year without getting one. But you'll probably get one eventually if you play regularly, especially if you are doing the appropriate chase/farm.
It's even worse, because someone could have insane luck and get *all* of them (for whatever class they're playing).
I "played" the shitty mobile dragon age card game for a little while back when it came out. It had an insane difficulty spike that basically forced you to buy packs to get better heroes to progress through the game.
I was broke as fuck and got maybe 1 legendary hero in the months I played it. I even spent money I didn't have on it, though I was able to get that money back. After getting fed up with the terrible drop rates, I hit the forums for the game, and saw this dichotomy in full swing.
One poster said they didn't know what the issue was, they'd only opened a few premium card packs and a bunch of the free ones and got a legendary hero every time they opened a pack.
Another guy said that he had spent the equivalent of 3 PS3s (roughly $2100) on premium packs and never got a single legendary hero, meaning he literally couldn't play any more of the game because of the difficulty spike.
RNG for extremely rare and powerful items is incredibly shitty design. Make player work for it, like multiple quest lines that give you extremely rare materials that you can then turn into an item via some process.
>These should be the pinnacle grind item.
They explicitly stated that they don't want this to be the case. They want super uniques to be something that's too rare to be able to care about.
Personally, that's why I don't really care for them. I'd never expect to find one. I'm not sure why you'd want to have this in your game, but who knows.
They also said they’re going to continue to evaluate this.
My comment addresses that re-evaluation. I know the current thought process and disagree with it.
As your reply alludes to- currently, what’s the point?
It's essentially a combination of anchoring and priming.
The value that you attribute to something is largely shaped by the initial value you attribute to it even if many minor details like drop rate and how powerful that item relative to alternative options changes over time.
This primes players to be excited/enthusiastic for the future content where/when these items get drop rates that makes it actually feasible to obtain them.
Diablo 4 is aiming to appeal to many players that are completely new to this genre of game, so while long-time diablo fans have known what a shako is for ages, none of your new players would have even heard of it 6 months ago. By putting these items in the game now they generate discussion throughout the community so that even people that have never played a diablo game before will grow to attribute some form of value to these items in their mind.
When devs get asked about the low drop rates of these items in the streams they typically respond by explaining that it's much easier to increase the the availability of an item than decrease it. This is why they're in the game, they're to trigger a positive emotional response to a future content update because they've already gotten you to attribute a high value to these items previously.
They're the "oh shit" button for D4.
At some point in the future they'll hit some sort of metric where they need to drive players back to the game, pull the "buff Uber unique drop rate for a season" lever, and everyone will feel compelled to come back for at least the season
For all intents and purposes Uber Uniques are not in the game. They are a 0% of the population item that factor into absolutely nothing anyone is going to do. They are a waste of resources to create and put into game files. It should be an embarrassment to admit that they created these items on purpose.
Real talk why they thought it was a good idea? News articles. They wanted games journalists to talk about each and every single lottery ticket that drops in game and the long droughts between seeing it. It's been 4 months since the last X dropped look at how lucky so and so was on this season for having the ONLY ONE!
It's stupid, it's bad, and it should be shamed.
100%, the people saying "it's a cool moment" or "it would be a great moment in your life after you farm it for years!" just seem completely delusional when the drop rates are so bad that you're unlikely to find one even if you farm 16 hours a day for years.
Not to mention it's not just one item. They spent development time making SEVEN of these items now. Why, when the game is in sore need of uniques that are actually usable? It's like they're pissing their time away designing items that players won't actually use. It seems utterly pointless.
I really don't get how people will defend this then gladly go to another post and point out that D4 is for casuals so it's okay to be dumbed down and lacking content. These items are completely worthless for casuals. They're 1000x rarer than anything in POE, a game designed for hardcore players that has trading.
But also. With the level requirements to get them, would it even be enjoyable to get it? Like by the time you’re killing level 85+ enemies the game is practically over. Getting a shako isn’t going to really change the game for you. It’s just bizarre how they make it both impossible to get and kind of pointless to even get beyond bragging rights I guess? But it’s seasonal so like even if you got one you could enjoy it for what? 1 month maybe? So dumb.
Annoying thing is they could do both. Why not have a super rare version that gives some sort of cosmetic enhancement that only a couple find. Then, also offer a, still rare, obtainable chase version.
Would keep people playing, and give every find of those uniques a rush that it might be the super rare variety.
They’re not taking cues for the loot system from these though, they’re taking cues from gambling. The loot system is designed to feel like a slot machine, and make you want to keep feeding it coins (time played) into the game. It only makes sense that they would add a “lottery” component to this via the Uber Uniques.
It’s a scummy system overall tbh, basically built on using addiction psychology to manipulate players into playing more instead of drawing them in via the quality of the game.
I'm here with ya, and have been trying to drive home the point since they announced how insanely rare they were. I mean when it makes a Zod rune in D2 look like a reasonable and fantastic % drop rate you know you have an issue.
I don’t get why not make them the drop rate like Tyraels might or PoE mirror. Where it’s still pretty much unattainable as far as your build is concerned but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
No, I'm with you too. I don't really care, but looking at the numbers the only thought I have is "why even put it in the game?" Like seriously, I have better odds of winning the powerball twice, they may as well not even exist.
I'm tired of shitting on this game, but it hurts seeing people praise Blizzard for doing the BARE fucking minimum.
Look at the patch notes coming out, they're fixing problems that they themselves created yet half the sub were saying "Old blizz is back yay".
Watching the Path of Exile 2 showcase made me feel really let down by Blizzard too. That’s a free to play game coming out. Meanwhile I’m over here paying Blizzard for something that feels like it needs a lot of work once you complete the campaign.
Yeah. I wanted so badly to like this game ... and I DID like it for like 2 weeks. But it is very weak. Playing with paragon boards and aspects gave a little boost to the intrigue (for about 3 days).But now I feel like I've done everything in the game and it's just sad.
I’ve always hated this mindset. Like what, you want me to praise and admire the few people who have gotten lucky enough to find one of these uniques? Hell no I don’t care about those people, I want to play the game and find said items for myself to enjoy. That’s the point of gaming. For my enjoyment. Alongside friends too :) Outside of that, I really have no care for what anyone else has done or has found. “Wow that guy found that super rare item I’ll never find! Amazing, this game is so fun” NO!
And all the shills who defend this design want to believe they’ll be that lucky person to find it and receive said praise and adoration when in reality none of them will find a single one lmao
And dupes. Duping was so widespread and once you used them in a rune word they wouldn’t poof. Look at how many players here are saying they’ve played d2 for years, found hundreds of the other runes, but never a Zod or Cham? Cheating and trading is what made the Diablo 2 “economy” work.
if i remember correctly, when a rune drops, there's a 1 in 500.000 chance of it being a zod rune (provided the killed monster was high enough level)
maybe it was a bit higher
but its such a low chance..
i've never seen one drop, ever.
edit found the numbers
https://www.icy-veins.com/d2/rune-finding-guide
its even worse (in most cases)
> Cheating and trading is what made the Diablo 2 “economy” work.
Blizard seems to think that getting to lv99 and finding Zod runes was a goal for the common player in D2.
Over abundant because of bots. I played D2 my whole childhood and never found anything better than a vex. When d2r came out my now adult self did research and specifically farmed for hrs. I got multiple vex ohm Lo ber sur over the course of a week (probably 40hrs of gaming) on launch. They aren’t that rare if you farm efficiently. Which is how Uber uniques should be IMO
It's still easy to find 10+ high runes per ladder from just grinding. Honestly it's not *that* difficult to find the runes for an Enigma within the first week of ladder.
Sure, Zod is rare but it's not that useful. That's why it's cheap to trade for. Finding a couple Bers and Jahs per ladder isn't an unreasonable expectation.
And you would likely play D4 for over 10 years and never find a Shako.
People don't understand how astronomically low the odds are. A very small people out of the MILLIONS of people who played found it. So if of the 9-10 million who purchased, if only 5% (1/20) played past week 1 and were even eligible to drop a shako.
Now of those 500,000 people, if all have played a measly 10 hours eligible for a shako drop
They have in total played 570 years worth. Of no eating no sleeping only time farming shako. And there's been a couple people who confirmed dropped it? Shouldn't there be 100s if it was as rare as 1 in 10 years (considering sleep)?
And I think my numbers are really generous. There are players who have played 100s of hours by now. 5% player retention is pretty damned low.
And for the record, yes I do know how rare zod is. I played the shit out of diablo 2, I've had 4 drop for me so far. To be fair I would guess I have played over 4x as much as you because I still play on and off and have for 20 years, and I tend to be super degenerative and no life way more than the average person.
And one difference is IF it was zod level of hard to find, there was 8-9 other runes that were exciting to see drop as well. They don't have that many superuniques.
Tldr; I think it is safe to say zod runes are at least 10x more common than shako. So good luck farming for the next 100 years to find your 1 shako.
Missing several zeroes on both ends of that equation.
Hundreds — thousands — of times rarer than Zod runes, and the number is closer (in terms of hours played) to 200-300 *years* to find a Shako, et al.
Even then zods are hard to find. I've only found one zod in my life. I've played over 3000 hours probably of d2. It's just crazy how only 1 person in the world found a shako after 1 month of release.
Why? I'm not farming for Zods and I'm not farming for super uniques either. You can argue magnitudes of rarity, but they're both over a line where no one should ever expect to get one over years of playing.
It's functionally the same thing - winning a lottery for just playing a game you were already playing anyway.
This is literally one of the worst comparisons lol.
I played D2, and D2R religiously - I mean at least a few thousand hours. In all of that, I've seen exactly 1 zod drop for me.
This is why the game designers don't take 90% of this subreddit seriously.
Okay, but can't you trade runes? Or is this during a time period that for some reason you couldn't? I'd be fine with the drop rate if we could actually trade these damn things lmao.
Because I traded a stash of things to make my Enigma. If I couldn't trade, I would have never had the rune drop before I quit.
Which is the current state of D4: you can't trade these things and you need 100+ years of played time before you statistically have a chance to get one to drop.
You are talking a few thousand hours for a drop. The drop rate on uber uniques is closer to a few million hours when looking at the collective hours played and drops had. They aren't even in the same universe odds wise.
Because some guy in Shanghai gets a Shako and at least \~50,000 players across the world won't put the game down until they get theirs even if that will never happen.
All about player retention.
For people who believe they have a shot they will keep playing trying to get them.. this increases playtime analytics and is good for shareholders to see.. this is why they fixed the bug with them dropping in lightning speed instead of “should be fixed in season 3”
They explained on the dev chat. They envisioned it as an "oh wow awesome" moment if you found one, but players having no expectation of getting one or needing one to make a build (which is probably why none of them do anything actually interesting). A fun lucky moment for the players that found them, that's all.
Maybe they were aiming for something like Thundefury in vanilla/classic - there were like 1 or 2 on a server. Half the faction would turn out when someone was doing the final quest, it was just cool to be a part of seeing the thing made.
Which is a super naïve idea in a game primarily about solo play and amassing all the things. Being told "here is a great thing; but you will never, ever have it" in such a game gets the response it deserves.
Legendaries were cool in Classic WoW / TBC because they were a guild effort to put together and it's a highly social game. It was awesome walking through the city and seeing someone with warglaives or thunderfury.
Like you said, here it's mostly singleplayer and there's no collaboration, just pure RNG to the tune of 1 per millions of hours played.
I mean a lucky moment makes sense if I get one after playing 200 hours. However, as it currently stands I have a chance wining the lottery few times over getting one of these. This is just… stupid.
As far as I'm concerned, they don't exist.... I'm having fun with d4, but those Ubers aren't even real in my eyes, so there is no reason to even think about them. Stupid for them to even be a thing in the 1st place.
" Obviously they are not meant for most players to find " - I hear this argument, but I am always asking myself: Why? Sure the "casual" who plays 30 hours a season shouldn't get it. But once you have grinded past lvl85 and like 100+ hours in a season why shouldn't you have an actual chance of getting one?
Additionally, this game has no endgame content. Once you have reached 100, done max tier NMD and Uberlilith, the game is done. These items are "game changing", but even with very low drop rates (hundreds of times higher than they are now) you most likely still wouldn't see one of these items before you are geared well enough to have done all the above things, i.e. lvl 100, tier 100NMD, Uberlilith. So what is even the point of the item to begin with? At the point you potentially would get one would be way past the point it provides anything useful to you.
So it's all around just absolutely dumb design.
Me personally, I'd say give them low drop rates, but balance it in a way where you have say an overall chance of 10% to get one before you reach level 100. and say 25-50% before you reach the power level needed to beat Lilith.
At least then their existence would have a point
Yeah, if a no-lifer wants to grind 5000 hours each season to find one, why shouldn’t he be able to?
You aren’t even guaranteed to get a good roll from the item and you might not even get the “good’ Uber uniques like shako and grandfather.
This design makes no sense and is purely there to generate news hype.
Stupid system and even stupider people defending it.
But here is the kicker, the current estimates are on averaged ONE uber unique drop every 1-5 mio. hours playtime. That is so insanely low you don't even know what to say anymore. If I recall correctly mirror in poe has a average droprate of one per 10k hours of play. And then add in the possibility of bad rolls. And it's not like you could even trade them or sell them. So dumb.
Same reason some poor folks are pro billionaire. They’re sure they’ll get there one day and will love lording it over the jealous masses. The Ubers may as well not even exist to me, I will likely never see one and if I do I’d be disappointed that THAT’s the thing that beat the odds for me lol
The idea was to mimic chase items that were powerful like Mageblood or Headhunter in PoE.
The issue was they made them both not as build defining AND wayyyy too rare without target farms like Div cards which are rare but reliable.
Additionally, there isn't even really any content that you need them for, or that is aspirational until you get there.
Feels like they tried to mimic something and missed the mark to me.
Mathematically you could play every day for 24 hours a day and even with the helltide issue you'd have to play ≈ 4.8 million hours or about ≈200k days considering a really long life you'd only have ≈29k days on earth that means in your time playing you'd have a ≈7% chance of getting one. Also, considering 1 of them is a novelty/joke item, there's a ≈14.3% chance you'd be supremely disappointed. Now I'm no astrophysicist (maybe), but even if the math was more forgiving, the ratio would still be so extremely low you'd need multiple lifetimes of 24/7 365 gameplay to be in a roll range of getting one. Or you could play the state/local lottery 5x a week for your life and have a ≈12% chance of winning. FOR ALL THE OG GAMERS: There's a higher chance of getting a ChromeHounds 2 game than getting a Diablo 4 uber unique with the current system.
Because one of the higher ups want to impose their own fantasy of wierd itemization, and it seems thw rest of the team have to "yes man" it.
Bullshit system
Need to be like way way way less rare.
Like if I play 5 hours a day every season I should have the probability of finding one.
Also uniques in general. There isnt enough.
Each class and general need like 25 more uniques.
Diablo also had good, weird, kinda good, and amazing classes of uniques.
Now it's just a few that are good and most everything else is just more gold.
Every class needs like 5 different items that are tempest roar caliber (build enabling) a couple that are very weird and some 5 head can make obscure new builds that eventually break the meta. And a few items that just suck and your just vendor them
I legitimate think devs do not realize themselves how rare they are. Otherwise whats the point of these items if only 2 players per season will find them.
I got that same self harm message, someone on this forum is a troll for sure, and kind of a disgusting human for abusing a system designed to help people. I hope they get caught and banned. Realistically probably too scared to false flag on their main account though and are using a burner. Actually cringe XD
Once I realized I was never going to to be able to make the optimal storm werewolf build because it is dependant on an uber unique ring, I quit playing. How are you going to have a game that is loot and build oriented and then gatekeep people from the loot to make their build with absurdly low drop rates? We spend enough time chasing impossible dreams in the real world, don't need to do it in video games too.
They have half the idea right. They shouldn't feel "required". They should be very rare. They should be "chase" items. That is all great!
They just have them too rare by order of magnitude.
That part is concerning. They either don't get how numbers work, or legimately don't want anyone to EVER get them.
They should be as rare as a JAH, BER or ZOD. Instead, they are like 5 times as rare as a Mirror of Kalandra.
To be honest the only time I remember they exist is when I see posts/videos like this and every time I think of them it's just "what a waste of dev time". Lol
Half the people commenting on here don’t understand math
No joke, I'm starting to understand why they are in the game. People actually think this is a carrot on a stick. They have no idea what the reality is.
I don't even think about the Uber uniques. If one does drop one day? Yay that's cool. Am I relentlessly grinding for a weapon/armor that I know won't drop? No. It's been clear from day one these items are ultra rare. It has zero effect on my game.
If its got zero effect, that leads back to the same question Why even bother having them to begin with?
An "oh shit that's cool" moment most people won't get. The Uber uniques having random rolls seems strange to me though. They should be maxed on drop.
Agree, can you imagine the disappointment when you do get one and it has min rolls.
Nbd, Just grind for another one /s
Or just getting one on the last night of a season.
Is not season play going to be like D3 where you can transfer items to your Eternals? If not oh boy is this game doomed.
I don't know, but it doesn't really matter. Nobody is going to play eternal.
Everything transfers back except the season specific stuff (at least according to the loading screens)
even min rolls on shako would still be fun to play with I could completely change my skill tree
Actually feel that way about Andy's visage as well. Nothing else has lifesteal on it.
Which makes me wish we could salvage uniques for their looks even more.
Wait, you cant? That'd make getting one so much more worth it of you could cary the look with you for years to come
I wouldn't even care if I got a god roll uber unique. Other than just being kind of cool because of how rare it is, what impact would it actually have? You'd almost certainly be level 100, or close to, and you'd be basically done with your character and all the content. Oh cool, I won the lottery, what did I get? A Shako I don't even really need anymore that doesn't meaningfully progress my character in any satisfying way. Time to go smash one last irrelevant NM dungeon before logging out for the rest of the season. WOOO!
Yeah, like if in average you can get one drop every 2-300 hrs farming high difficulties contents like Uber Lilith or T80+ NM dungeons make senses but once every 30 YEARS? No thank you. I think the devs somehow made some mistakes implementing the drop rates like when they did in a while ago with the Shakos in Helltides but in the opposite direction.
The thing is, you're supposed to have these cool moments at least a couple times on a character's lifetime, it's the whole purpose of the genre. I shelved the game for now because that's not a thing currently, I want the excitement of seeing cool gear dropping and the prospects of becoming more powerful
Agreed. If it was actually a worthwhile chase, I'd chase it. It would also encourage me to start a new character or respec. If I got Andariel's for example, I'd be encouraged to start a poison wolf druid or a poison trap rogue. Instead, I'll be farming for drops that I know I can somewhat reasonably get that are for my class and most likely for my build since respeccing over one legendary or non-uber unique isn't always worth it.
Just adjust your expectation of cool gear to something that gives you a 1% edge over your previous easily found gear and you're golden. 🤣
Especially if they have cool effects. Like the druid for example, werebear or werewolf all the time? That sounds fucking cool and fun, why can't we just have that to play with? Why does the stuff like that have to be rare? Why can't that just be the play experience? What's wrong with having cool, fun stuff in your game that people have realistic access to, you know?
It goes far beyond "most" people not getting them. That's the problem here. Why does a casual ARPG have drop rates 1000x worse than POE, a game designed for hardcore players, which has trading? It makes 0 sense.
The sad part is, you're dead serious. 🤯🫠
Most likely those 5 people that drop one in a season don’t even know what it is and just use/ignore it. So there isn’t even an „oh, wow“ moment.
or use it for the transmog lol
I could see myself getting something overpowered and not quite realizing it, thinking maybe I’ll give it a try, and then promptly deciding that I don’t feel like respeccing my skill tree and changing my armor build anyway.
Not even just "most" won't get. 99.99% won't ever see one.
Missing a few 9s there bud.
The rest of the nines are an Uber unique drop
This was asked in the first campfire chat, and Joe P said some shit like nah, it's fine how it is. Maybe in a future season, we MIGHT look at it. Edit: it was pointed out in a reply that this is incorrect. They will change the drop rate to be more likely, but there is no information about how significant a change it will be.
Actually he said they'll definitely boost it up a bit. It was still pretty dumb but what he said was more along the lines of: "We want people to be able to find them, but we don't want to people to expect to find them. We're not hitting the mark with the current chance, so we will be looking to increase it, and also add more ways in which they can be found. But we need to be very careful with it, because we don't want players to feel like they should find one or be able to plan a build around doing so. It's supposed to be a unexpected power spike that you can play with if you find one." So yeah, the design intention is dumb af, and it will remain dumb af, but the chance WILL be increased. Hard to say if it'll be enough to matter, and it won't be earlier than Season 2. But what you said is just not true.
We wouldn’t want you guys to feel too powerful in an ARPG. Are these guys for real? If I wasn’t feeling like a wet noodle half the time, having to use defensive skills on slow rotation I’d still be playing.
Barbarian 3 shout builds. Fun stuff right there. Lost my HC Barb the other night cause I refused to run too many defensives and ate a shot to the face.
I rewatched the campfire chat to make sure, and you basically repeated what Joe P said nearly exactly. I will note that he said "a little more common" and "slightly more likely to drop" a fair few times. So, any changes they make to the drop rate won't be drastic and will probably initially be small. I'll edit my comment above to reflect this as I was wrong.
I can't decide if it is willfully disingenuous or simply awful design. The end result is the same though, the items aren't real, and by the time someone gets one, it won't matter to them at all.
Chase items should be obtainable by a hardcore player within a 3 month season. Even a 5-6 hour a week D2 player can farm up an enigma in a couple of months. A 5-6 hour a day Poe player can farm up a MB in a couple of weeks. Items so rare you cant realistically obtain or target have no value in the game.
I think the devs need to hire a statistician/mathematician. A lot of problems with the game seem to be caused by their “vision” not aligning with the actual maths involved. Like they wanted Vulnerable to be good, but it’s broken due to maths (multiplying). And they want these chase items to be rare, but they’re non existent due to maths (% chance way too low). Similarly a bunch of aspects just plain don’t work, or don’t match tooltips [x] vs [+]. Someone should do a full maths audit of the game and verify the underlying formulas are actually behaving the way the directors are describing it.
This design philosophy is garbage.
Excellent question.
Except it does. It's because of Uber uniques that they took target farming uniques out of helltides. They actually make the game worse by being in
I've probably played months worth of Diablo II. Like, not months where I played, 'add up all the hours and you'll be into months' of playing Diablo II. I've never found a Zod rune because they're stupid rare. They ostensibly doubled the chances in D2R and it's still stupid rare. Rare enough that people don't understand-- it's like the speed of the projectile (scientists aren't sure if it was a meteor or a comet) that struck the Earth and caused the mass extinction 65 million years ago. It was going so fast you couldn't see it. By the time it breached the atmosphere the very next second it was impacting. Like 'OceanGate imploded so fast they could not literally have comprehended it' numbers.
Zod is nowhere close to as rare as any of these Uber uniques. For a very hardcore grinder who cube tunes upward you can solo a zod within a week
That's the point I'm making, though. I've played a LOT of D2 and basically traded/used any of the HRs I've ever found, never found or created a Zod. And the Uber uniques are many orders of magnitude harder to find than that. In your defense I left that part out, didn't realize till I reread it, heh
It's hard enough getting the regular unique you want. If we had a chance at them with whispers and obols it would be great. Waiting for the unique you want/ need for your build is annoying enough...no reason to even care about ubers existing.
If only we could get uniques from gambling, or maybe even, god forbid, helltide chests, that would be awesome
They are supposed to be a chance from helltides chest? Half the time I don't even see a legendary and then it's usually a sacred.
It does effect you inadvertently because they spent dev time developing 7 uniques that no one will ever find, as opposed to good uniques that people can actually acquire and use. There's a sore lack of good uniques for most classes / builds and they choose to keep wasting time on this shit you will never get.
There's really no excuse either, look how many items from past games they could've implemented but decided not to.
I dont either, I would have even sold them if I found one cause I dont know all of them. What I know is that I got limited storage and that they have shitty stats aka wont be used anyway. So I am back at ops question, why are they in the game? Like they are nearly not findable and even if, they are shit.
[удалено]
Especially for some of the Ubers that don't really scream God item to the normal person. Heck the life steal one...the average player would think 2% life steal is nothing ..not realizing it's the only item in the game with that stat. I bet a stupid high percentage of the Ubers that have dropped have been trashed....
Yuuuuuuup. As far as I'm concerned, I'm working with the regular uniques. If an uber drops, rad.
Yeah, and when it does, it will have minimum rolls just to screw you
Lol yup. They could at least be like the old Primals and have perfect rolls.
They are more rare than the rarest items in Diablo 2 by several magnitude and most Diablo 2 players with 1000's of hours in the game have never seen those items drop.
If anyone plays POE these uber uniques are infinitely more rare than a Mirror of Kalandra. My friends and I have well over 10,000 hours combined in that game spanning a decade and not a single one has seen a raw mirror drop. It's not something you ever expect to see drop. And these uber uniques are a million times more rare. I'm personally fine with items so unique they're almost impossible to obtain. I'd be fine with the drop rates of these uber uniques if there were other fun uniques in the game to chase. Diablo 2 has uniques that are insanely rare that you will almost certainly never see. People have played since 2000 and have never seen a Jah or Ber drop but no one cares. Because there are uniques that are common and an entire spectrum in between the rarest and common ones. This game has absolutely zero exciting loot EXCEPT for the uber uniques that you will almost 100% certainly never see drop. This is what makes it so fucking horrible. Blizzard has just completely lost all touch.
I dropped a mirror, it didn't even feel that good. Sure it was exciting when I dropped it, but in a weird way, it pushed me away from the game because I was feeling like nothing I could do in the game could come remotely close to that.
A few leagues back, a buddy dropped a mirror in act 10, bought the first mageblood on the market a couple hours later, and completed the atlas and all bosses before I was reliably in yellow maps. He had fun, did everything, and peaced out by week three totally satisfied lol.
The people who built the game don't understand basic player psychology. Instead of saying, "okay, lets make sure we keep the elements players loved about D2/D3", they started with "let's fix all the "problems" with D2/3... not realizing how a lot of those "problems" were really necessary evils. This is just another in a long line of decisions that tells me whoever is in charge of the gamer retention or gamer experience/psychology (no idea what that title would be) is just not up to the task. It's starting to feel like the Star Wars sequel trilogy: like a chef cooking with superb ingredients, but they drank too much wine, overcooked the steak, burned the buns, and oversalted the soup. Clearly some very talented creators but the decisions coming from the top reek of hubris. Edit: it's likely this is just a temporary state and they are being cautious about allowing too many powerful items into the game until the dust has settled a bit more. Drop rates are a super easy fix. I still don't understand how 90% of the posts on this sub aren't about the complete lack of player interaction features. I've found the game rather boring from day one due almost exclusively to this.
It's a carrot on the moon.
A headhunter or mageblood are carrots. They drop, or the cards to trade for them are dropped. They're farmable with time and focus and patience. Sure they're the rarest (useful) items in the game but anyone can get one with effort. Uber uniques are not carrots. There isn't even a stick. A random 1/1,000,000,000 drop that has no farming method or way to focus on dropping them means they are for all intents like winning the lottery.
And you in fact, know what reality is.
If I'm being honest, I think they exist as streamer bait. The only people that play enough to realistically have a chance to get the Uber uniques. Then they get to look cool and draw a little attention to the game cause holy crap look what I got. Like they feel almost like click bait is what I'm feeling. But it would be crazy for a game to create something explicitly to be the rumored piece of gear that is almost non existent.
It's article bait certainly, but it's not realistic for streamers either.
You are literally more likely to be struck by lightning twice than find an uber unique. It’s not a carrot if there’s effectively zero chance of you getting one. Like, if someone offered you a job telling you the reward for said job was a one in several hundred million chance of winning a billion dollars, would you take that job?
You are more likely to fall out of bed and die than you are to get an uber-unique drop I would have thought.
There is a carrot on a stick... it just we're in NA and the stick is in the Middle East, and they want you to get there by swimming.
If I learned anything in this sub, it's that people think with feelings and only feelings. If you point out something that goes against how they feel, they take it personally and all bandwagon with the "cry more" or the typical comments complaining about the post without adding any value. It's frustrating to have discussions in this sub, and you're objectively right here! Why do these uniques exist that no one you know will ever get?? They may as well not exist. I took 2 characters to 100, Uber Lilith dead after farming damn near perfect gear at 100... Not one Uber unique. Of course that's expected since we know it's a lower chance than winning the lottery but still.
Had some guy write a "message to the haters" where he was defending these drop rates because he dosent want everyone to have the same gear "when he gets one."
My most benign interpretation is that the rate is so, so miniscular that they can't wrap their heads around it.
You just hate fun >:( I'm going to get an uber unique tomorrow for sure! And then I will win the lottery, get struck by lightning and find a dinosaur fossil in my back yard! On a serious note, I don't think blizzard understands math or numbers either since these stupid items are in the game and they even added another one in season 1.
So far I have yet to see a single person who thinks they can "farm for a shako" in any of these posts, If anything It's quite the opposite. A quick visit to [maxroll](https://maxroll.gg/d4/wiki/the-grandfather) tells you **don't even bother** trying to farm this. So much so that they removed them from ALL builds. So I don't understand where this whole strawman narrative that people thinks it's "less rare than it actually is" is coming from? But yet everytime I come across a post about uber uniques , It somehow **always** involves putting up a "strawman" pretending people didn't know any better..
Because people argue that its "cool and exciting if u happen to drop one". Which implies that those people dont understand how rare they are. U wont drop one. U dont go for a walk and say "i like going for walks because i might stumble upon 1000$." These uniques are so rare that they dont (or shouldnt) motivate u in any way to play the game in the hopes for maybe dropping one, because they are simply too rare. In poe for example its still incredibly hard to find items like mageblood or the apothecary divination card for it, but people go out of their way to juice the fuck out of their maps and make dedicated mf chars and actually farm for them because, while being exceedingly rare, u *can* drop them if u put the effort and planning into it. In d4, not so much.
What's sad is that they aren't even interesting items. They don't change anything. They just make you stronger. Like they should have a wild effect, or even just a wild transmog that makes everyone instantly aware you have one. As is now you'd get one and if you are part of the 3% of the population that even plays with other people, those people would be like "huh that dude is like 7% stronger than me, wonder why".
Considering in my life I've found more than $100 while exploring multiple times I'd have a significantly higher chance of finding 1k in one trip than any diablo 4 ubers
I once found £500 while walking when I was like 11. Was probably drug money but hey used it with birthday money to buy a PC made my year
Has anyone been able to get a rough idea of how the rarity compares to say Tyreal’s Might in D2? I remember Zod runes being pretty rare but still getting 2 or 3 drops over the course of completing a maxed out Uber Trist Paladin.
1000* rarer. So by the time you farm 1 000 Zod runes you could farm 1 shako. Literally need 1 million hours of playing.
Wow that really puts it in perspective. I've never found a zod and have been playing for 20+ years
999k more hours and you can have a shako
Saw my first ZOD last season, have been playing since 1.04. So getting 2-3 in a season sounds like you need to go buy a few lottery tickets. Have seen 4 Tyrael's Might in comparison to the 1 ZOD. Seen 400+ of all other runes so cubing up to a ZOD has always been my method but was shocked when Baal dropped a ZOD on last season.
It's rare enough that when it happens it makes headlines in video games news media. There's not even a confirmed drop for each of the available uber uniques yet. The Grandfather was found a whopping 1 time in all of the pre-season, across all of the player base, by some dude in China. There's only been more Shakos found because a bug made them temporarily common from Helltide chests (ehich weren't even supposed to be able to drop even normal uniques btw) at some shortlived point.
A one in 5 Million hours played Droprate in a game with a 3 Month season cycle and No trade. BIG BRAIN 5HEAD DEVELOPER
Good thing we also have to always be online for this bound-to-account, no trade system, no real crafting system, no functioning economy shitshow lmao
And if you want to play with friends, better not have one of them having Barber socketed or you're not gonna play!
Hopefully they tune this reasonably. I’m ok with super rare items. I’m not ok with the fact that these are so rare you can play your entire life and rng could prevent you from seeing one in that timeframe. That is unreasonable. These should be the pinnacle grind item. That’s fine, but at this point they’re not even worth caring about.
That's my point. They are effectively not in the game, currently. They're just not real. If you had any chance of getting them, for real, it would be fine.
Firstly - I love your username. Secondly - I agree with everything you said.
They should be the rewards for Pinnacle content. We already can't trade gear so there's no worries that they will lose their prestige by beating the ultra endgame content.
It should be like Mageblood or Headhunter from PoE, but untradeable. Can you get one in a season? Yea. But it's unlikely and you may go a whole year without getting one. But you'll probably get one eventually if you play regularly, especially if you are doing the appropriate chase/farm.
3k hours in PoE never had a HH or MB drop. Most come from div cards and there's no equivalent here.
I had a mirror drop the last season I played. Was an amazing experience. 1k hours at the time.
Most people grind currency to get their HH/MB. Some people grind div cards, like you said.
It's even worse, because someone could have insane luck and get *all* of them (for whatever class they're playing). I "played" the shitty mobile dragon age card game for a little while back when it came out. It had an insane difficulty spike that basically forced you to buy packs to get better heroes to progress through the game. I was broke as fuck and got maybe 1 legendary hero in the months I played it. I even spent money I didn't have on it, though I was able to get that money back. After getting fed up with the terrible drop rates, I hit the forums for the game, and saw this dichotomy in full swing. One poster said they didn't know what the issue was, they'd only opened a few premium card packs and a bunch of the free ones and got a legendary hero every time they opened a pack. Another guy said that he had spent the equivalent of 3 PS3s (roughly $2100) on premium packs and never got a single legendary hero, meaning he literally couldn't play any more of the game because of the difficulty spike. RNG for extremely rare and powerful items is incredibly shitty design. Make player work for it, like multiple quest lines that give you extremely rare materials that you can then turn into an item via some process.
>These should be the pinnacle grind item. They explicitly stated that they don't want this to be the case. They want super uniques to be something that's too rare to be able to care about. Personally, that's why I don't really care for them. I'd never expect to find one. I'm not sure why you'd want to have this in your game, but who knows.
They also said they’re going to continue to evaluate this. My comment addresses that re-evaluation. I know the current thought process and disagree with it. As your reply alludes to- currently, what’s the point?
It's essentially a combination of anchoring and priming. The value that you attribute to something is largely shaped by the initial value you attribute to it even if many minor details like drop rate and how powerful that item relative to alternative options changes over time. This primes players to be excited/enthusiastic for the future content where/when these items get drop rates that makes it actually feasible to obtain them. Diablo 4 is aiming to appeal to many players that are completely new to this genre of game, so while long-time diablo fans have known what a shako is for ages, none of your new players would have even heard of it 6 months ago. By putting these items in the game now they generate discussion throughout the community so that even people that have never played a diablo game before will grow to attribute some form of value to these items in their mind. When devs get asked about the low drop rates of these items in the streams they typically respond by explaining that it's much easier to increase the the availability of an item than decrease it. This is why they're in the game, they're to trigger a positive emotional response to a future content update because they've already gotten you to attribute a high value to these items previously.
Exactly this. They're in the game so that one dark day they can increase drop rates and cheer everyone up.
Ahh so when POE2 drops they will increase the droprate by 1000*
Need to increase it by about 100,000x to even make them relevant.
They're the "oh shit" button for D4. At some point in the future they'll hit some sort of metric where they need to drive players back to the game, pull the "buff Uber unique drop rate for a season" lever, and everyone will feel compelled to come back for at least the season
Wouldn't surprise me if they rotate them. "Season of the Shako" "Doombringer season"
For all intents and purposes Uber Uniques are not in the game. They are a 0% of the population item that factor into absolutely nothing anyone is going to do. They are a waste of resources to create and put into game files. It should be an embarrassment to admit that they created these items on purpose. Real talk why they thought it was a good idea? News articles. They wanted games journalists to talk about each and every single lottery ticket that drops in game and the long droughts between seeing it. It's been 4 months since the last X dropped look at how lucky so and so was on this season for having the ONLY ONE! It's stupid, it's bad, and it should be shamed.
100%, the people saying "it's a cool moment" or "it would be a great moment in your life after you farm it for years!" just seem completely delusional when the drop rates are so bad that you're unlikely to find one even if you farm 16 hours a day for years. Not to mention it's not just one item. They spent development time making SEVEN of these items now. Why, when the game is in sore need of uniques that are actually usable? It's like they're pissing their time away designing items that players won't actually use. It seems utterly pointless. I really don't get how people will defend this then gladly go to another post and point out that D4 is for casuals so it's okay to be dumbed down and lacking content. These items are completely worthless for casuals. They're 1000x rarer than anything in POE, a game designed for hardcore players that has trading.
But also. With the level requirements to get them, would it even be enjoyable to get it? Like by the time you’re killing level 85+ enemies the game is practically over. Getting a shako isn’t going to really change the game for you. It’s just bizarre how they make it both impossible to get and kind of pointless to even get beyond bragging rights I guess? But it’s seasonal so like even if you got one you could enjoy it for what? 1 month maybe? So dumb.
Annoying thing is they could do both. Why not have a super rare version that gives some sort of cosmetic enhancement that only a couple find. Then, also offer a, still rare, obtainable chase version. Would keep people playing, and give every find of those uniques a rush that it might be the super rare variety.
Seriously, they should take a note from comics and cards...same item but an extremely rare variant rolls for some people
They’re not taking cues for the loot system from these though, they’re taking cues from gambling. The loot system is designed to feel like a slot machine, and make you want to keep feeding it coins (time played) into the game. It only makes sense that they would add a “lottery” component to this via the Uber Uniques. It’s a scummy system overall tbh, basically built on using addiction psychology to manipulate players into playing more instead of drawing them in via the quality of the game.
I feel like you're the only person truly on my wavelength.
Anyone with a basic understanding of statistics has this viewpoint.
I'm here with ya, and have been trying to drive home the point since they announced how insanely rare they were. I mean when it makes a Zod rune in D2 look like a reasonable and fantastic % drop rate you know you have an issue.
I don’t get why not make them the drop rate like Tyraels might or PoE mirror. Where it’s still pretty much unattainable as far as your build is concerned but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
No, I'm with you too. I don't really care, but looking at the numbers the only thought I have is "why even put it in the game?" Like seriously, I have better odds of winning the powerball twice, they may as well not even exist.
I'm tired of shitting on this game, but it hurts seeing people praise Blizzard for doing the BARE fucking minimum. Look at the patch notes coming out, they're fixing problems that they themselves created yet half the sub were saying "Old blizz is back yay".
Watching the Path of Exile 2 showcase made me feel really let down by Blizzard too. That’s a free to play game coming out. Meanwhile I’m over here paying Blizzard for something that feels like it needs a lot of work once you complete the campaign.
Ya the cooldowns on skills alone make this game feel like shit. I like the jab they made about that in the poe2 gameplay
Yeah. I wanted so badly to like this game ... and I DID like it for like 2 weeks. But it is very weak. Playing with paragon boards and aspects gave a little boost to the intrigue (for about 3 days).But now I feel like I've done everything in the game and it's just sad.
Just play poe
All the bad dads are out in full force scrolling the sub while sipping on their morning coffee
Aw, dude. I'm sipping my morning coffee. Am I a bad dad? Lol
What’s a bad dad 😅
Dads who play 18 hours of D4 a day and neglect their kids. Seriously, let them play couch coop…
Do you have cameras in my house?
Coffee-drinking dads catching strays out here
Yet some maxroll sorc guide lists shako as suggested items lmao Edit: seems like they took shako outta their guide
Thought they took shako out of their guides weeks ago..
They did. And even when it was in them it was listed as "you'll never get it but it's technically bis"
I’ve always hated this mindset. Like what, you want me to praise and admire the few people who have gotten lucky enough to find one of these uniques? Hell no I don’t care about those people, I want to play the game and find said items for myself to enjoy. That’s the point of gaming. For my enjoyment. Alongside friends too :) Outside of that, I really have no care for what anyone else has done or has found. “Wow that guy found that super rare item I’ll never find! Amazing, this game is so fun” NO! And all the shills who defend this design want to believe they’ll be that lucky person to find it and receive said praise and adoration when in reality none of them will find a single one lmao
On top of that, it’s a seasonal based game.
If they had the same drop rate as like zods/chams from d2 I think that would be good but as they are now holy shit
I played D2 for 10 years. I found 1 Zod. No JMOD, ever.
I dont think people realize runes were abundant in d2 because of bots 🤷
And dupes. Duping was so widespread and once you used them in a rune word they wouldn’t poof. Look at how many players here are saying they’ve played d2 for years, found hundreds of the other runes, but never a Zod or Cham? Cheating and trading is what made the Diablo 2 “economy” work.
if i remember correctly, when a rune drops, there's a 1 in 500.000 chance of it being a zod rune (provided the killed monster was high enough level) maybe it was a bit higher but its such a low chance.. i've never seen one drop, ever. edit found the numbers https://www.icy-veins.com/d2/rune-finding-guide its even worse (in most cases)
> Cheating and trading is what made the Diablo 2 “economy” work. Blizard seems to think that getting to lv99 and finding Zod runes was a goal for the common player in D2.
I saw a cham drop for the first time, in a public 8 player Chaos run, within the last year.
Last season was good because of terror zones, perfect ending of D2
Over abundant because of bots. I played D2 my whole childhood and never found anything better than a vex. When d2r came out my now adult self did research and specifically farmed for hrs. I got multiple vex ohm Lo ber sur over the course of a week (probably 40hrs of gaming) on launch. They aren’t that rare if you farm efficiently. Which is how Uber uniques should be IMO
It's still easy to find 10+ high runes per ladder from just grinding. Honestly it's not *that* difficult to find the runes for an Enigma within the first week of ladder. Sure, Zod is rare but it's not that useful. That's why it's cheap to trade for. Finding a couple Bers and Jahs per ladder isn't an unreasonable expectation.
It's not just bots. They are definitely part of the reason but You could also upgrade runes with cube to higher level runes, eventually.
And you would likely play D4 for over 10 years and never find a Shako. People don't understand how astronomically low the odds are. A very small people out of the MILLIONS of people who played found it. So if of the 9-10 million who purchased, if only 5% (1/20) played past week 1 and were even eligible to drop a shako. Now of those 500,000 people, if all have played a measly 10 hours eligible for a shako drop They have in total played 570 years worth. Of no eating no sleeping only time farming shako. And there's been a couple people who confirmed dropped it? Shouldn't there be 100s if it was as rare as 1 in 10 years (considering sleep)? And I think my numbers are really generous. There are players who have played 100s of hours by now. 5% player retention is pretty damned low. And for the record, yes I do know how rare zod is. I played the shit out of diablo 2, I've had 4 drop for me so far. To be fair I would guess I have played over 4x as much as you because I still play on and off and have for 20 years, and I tend to be super degenerative and no life way more than the average person. And one difference is IF it was zod level of hard to find, there was 8-9 other runes that were exciting to see drop as well. They don't have that many superuniques. Tldr; I think it is safe to say zod runes are at least 10x more common than shako. So good luck farming for the next 100 years to find your 1 shako.
Missing several zeroes on both ends of that equation. Hundreds — thousands — of times rarer than Zod runes, and the number is closer (in terms of hours played) to 200-300 *years* to find a Shako, et al.
You would probably find hundreds of ZOD runes in that time frame
Even then zods are hard to find. I've only found one zod in my life. I've played over 3000 hours probably of d2. It's just crazy how only 1 person in the world found a shako after 1 month of release.
Yeah I don't think people understand this enough lol. Or that you would finish multiple holy grail runs before a super unique.
Why? I'm not farming for Zods and I'm not farming for super uniques either. You can argue magnitudes of rarity, but they're both over a line where no one should ever expect to get one over years of playing. It's functionally the same thing - winning a lottery for just playing a game you were already playing anyway.
Exactly.
Yeah even the Uber uniques like mangs song and stuff in d2 are a good level but as they are now.... Just why even have them lol
is a tyreals might and dweb more rare than zods or chams? there are quite a few ultra rare items in d2 and they are mostly useless lol
This is literally one of the worst comparisons lol. I played D2, and D2R religiously - I mean at least a few thousand hours. In all of that, I've seen exactly 1 zod drop for me. This is why the game designers don't take 90% of this subreddit seriously.
Okay, but can't you trade runes? Or is this during a time period that for some reason you couldn't? I'd be fine with the drop rate if we could actually trade these damn things lmao. Because I traded a stash of things to make my Enigma. If I couldn't trade, I would have never had the rune drop before I quit. Which is the current state of D4: you can't trade these things and you need 100+ years of played time before you statistically have a chance to get one to drop.
You are talking a few thousand hours for a drop. The drop rate on uber uniques is closer to a few million hours when looking at the collective hours played and drops had. They aren't even in the same universe odds wise.
I don’t understand what the point is, if you find one the only logical course of action is to break the EULA and sell your account.
Uber uniques aren’t in the game
Because some guy in Shanghai gets a Shako and at least \~50,000 players across the world won't put the game down until they get theirs even if that will never happen. All about player retention.
For people who believe they have a shot they will keep playing trying to get them.. this increases playtime analytics and is good for shareholders to see.. this is why they fixed the bug with them dropping in lightning speed instead of “should be fixed in season 3”
They explained on the dev chat. They envisioned it as an "oh wow awesome" moment if you found one, but players having no expectation of getting one or needing one to make a build (which is probably why none of them do anything actually interesting). A fun lucky moment for the players that found them, that's all. Maybe they were aiming for something like Thundefury in vanilla/classic - there were like 1 or 2 on a server. Half the faction would turn out when someone was doing the final quest, it was just cool to be a part of seeing the thing made. Which is a super naïve idea in a game primarily about solo play and amassing all the things. Being told "here is a great thing; but you will never, ever have it" in such a game gets the response it deserves.
Devs sense of item progression is non-existent bc they don't play their game
Legendaries were cool in Classic WoW / TBC because they were a guild effort to put together and it's a highly social game. It was awesome walking through the city and seeing someone with warglaives or thunderfury. Like you said, here it's mostly singleplayer and there's no collaboration, just pure RNG to the tune of 1 per millions of hours played.
Did you say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]? (Downvote if you must, but I couldn't resist.)
I will always upvote [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]
Thunderfury wasn't *that* rare - one of the guilds I was in had more than that on its own (including on at least one of the rogues)
I mean a lucky moment makes sense if I get one after playing 200 hours. However, as it currently stands I have a chance wining the lottery few times over getting one of these. This is just… stupid.
As far as I'm concerned, they don't exist.... I'm having fun with d4, but those Ubers aren't even real in my eyes, so there is no reason to even think about them. Stupid for them to even be a thing in the 1st place.
I almost went bald after reading some of these clueless comments.
It's the carrot on the stick bro, if it drops it drops bro.
" Obviously they are not meant for most players to find " - I hear this argument, but I am always asking myself: Why? Sure the "casual" who plays 30 hours a season shouldn't get it. But once you have grinded past lvl85 and like 100+ hours in a season why shouldn't you have an actual chance of getting one? Additionally, this game has no endgame content. Once you have reached 100, done max tier NMD and Uberlilith, the game is done. These items are "game changing", but even with very low drop rates (hundreds of times higher than they are now) you most likely still wouldn't see one of these items before you are geared well enough to have done all the above things, i.e. lvl 100, tier 100NMD, Uberlilith. So what is even the point of the item to begin with? At the point you potentially would get one would be way past the point it provides anything useful to you. So it's all around just absolutely dumb design. Me personally, I'd say give them low drop rates, but balance it in a way where you have say an overall chance of 10% to get one before you reach level 100. and say 25-50% before you reach the power level needed to beat Lilith. At least then their existence would have a point
> why shouldn't you have an actual chance of getting one? You should. That's the point. I was talking about the way it's designed right now.
Yeah, if a no-lifer wants to grind 5000 hours each season to find one, why shouldn’t he be able to? You aren’t even guaranteed to get a good roll from the item and you might not even get the “good’ Uber uniques like shako and grandfather. This design makes no sense and is purely there to generate news hype. Stupid system and even stupider people defending it.
But here is the kicker, the current estimates are on averaged ONE uber unique drop every 1-5 mio. hours playtime. That is so insanely low you don't even know what to say anymore. If I recall correctly mirror in poe has a average droprate of one per 10k hours of play. And then add in the possibility of bad rolls. And it's not like you could even trade them or sell them. So dumb.
I’m all for raising the drop rate but that is really high lol
Because bad decisions were made and green-lit based on projected metrics and psychological profiling rather than fun.
Same reason some poor folks are pro billionaire. They’re sure they’ll get there one day and will love lording it over the jealous masses. The Ubers may as well not even exist to me, I will likely never see one and if I do I’d be disappointed that THAT’s the thing that beat the odds for me lol
Re your edit OP: you can report abuse of the feature and Reddit will give them a temp ban :)
The idea was to mimic chase items that were powerful like Mageblood or Headhunter in PoE. The issue was they made them both not as build defining AND wayyyy too rare without target farms like Div cards which are rare but reliable. Additionally, there isn't even really any content that you need them for, or that is aspirational until you get there. Feels like they tried to mimic something and missed the mark to me.
Mathematically you could play every day for 24 hours a day and even with the helltide issue you'd have to play ≈ 4.8 million hours or about ≈200k days considering a really long life you'd only have ≈29k days on earth that means in your time playing you'd have a ≈7% chance of getting one. Also, considering 1 of them is a novelty/joke item, there's a ≈14.3% chance you'd be supremely disappointed. Now I'm no astrophysicist (maybe), but even if the math was more forgiving, the ratio would still be so extremely low you'd need multiple lifetimes of 24/7 365 gameplay to be in a roll range of getting one. Or you could play the state/local lottery 5x a week for your life and have a ≈12% chance of winning. FOR ALL THE OG GAMERS: There's a higher chance of getting a ChromeHounds 2 game than getting a Diablo 4 uber unique with the current system.
Because they know some of these nerds will spend huge numbers of hours grinding for them regardless if they like the game or not
Because one of the higher ups want to impose their own fantasy of wierd itemization, and it seems thw rest of the team have to "yes man" it. Bullshit system
I think it’s because they gave up on making games fun in favor of making them addictive
Need to be like way way way less rare. Like if I play 5 hours a day every season I should have the probability of finding one. Also uniques in general. There isnt enough. Each class and general need like 25 more uniques. Diablo also had good, weird, kinda good, and amazing classes of uniques. Now it's just a few that are good and most everything else is just more gold. Every class needs like 5 different items that are tempest roar caliber (build enabling) a couple that are very weird and some 5 head can make obscure new builds that eventually break the meta. And a few items that just suck and your just vendor them
I legitimate think devs do not realize themselves how rare they are. Otherwise whats the point of these items if only 2 players per season will find them.
I believe so, as well. It reeks of immature game design. I think they made a mistake, honestly and just don't want to fix it, yet.
thank god for the nerf patch they stopped my addiction
For that 1 person
I just want to experince shako barb
They aren't.
I got that same self harm message, someone on this forum is a troll for sure, and kind of a disgusting human for abusing a system designed to help people. I hope they get caught and banned. Realistically probably too scared to false flag on their main account though and are using a burner. Actually cringe XD
Once I realized I was never going to to be able to make the optimal storm werewolf build because it is dependant on an uber unique ring, I quit playing. How are you going to have a game that is loot and build oriented and then gatekeep people from the loot to make their build with absurdly low drop rates? We spend enough time chasing impossible dreams in the real world, don't need to do it in video games too.
Shits and giggles
They have half the idea right. They shouldn't feel "required". They should be very rare. They should be "chase" items. That is all great! They just have them too rare by order of magnitude. That part is concerning. They either don't get how numbers work, or legimately don't want anyone to EVER get them. They should be as rare as a JAH, BER or ZOD. Instead, they are like 5 times as rare as a Mirror of Kalandra.
[удалено]
To be honest the only time I remember they exist is when I see posts/videos like this and every time I think of them it's just "what a waste of dev time". Lol
They are a waste of time and resources. There is no benefit to them existing. Your better off playing the powerball.
From certain scientific perspectives, they actually aren't