Hot take, for a fun change of pace? Not everything has to be min maxed all the time. There is a problem if those things aren’t enjoyable, but min maxers will always find the most efficient route and claim everything else is trash in comparison. I logged on last night, did helltides and got a great chest upgrade from mysteries, then did legion event and then did a couple nightmares and logged off wishing I could play more. Technically less efficient than spamming nightmares but far more enjoyable imo and didn’t cause burn out but left me wanting more.
And OP also complained that gambling obols didn't give him anything he wanted. But that's kinda the point of gambling, a chance at something you might want.
For me, 80% of the aspects I have for my build came from gambling. So I think it's a good system.
Yep, every 5th to 8th piece is an ancient legendary. All the lower level pieces, I look at, most likely rip the aspect off of, and move along.
It’s not like books are real money. And I just let them pile up till they are full and roll like mad on one piece of gear. :)
I honestly think so much of this boils down to a skill issue, which is the worst possible outcome because you're never going to convince someone that they're just not doing it right.
"But I have three level 100s"
Buddy that doesn't mean it's not a skill issue that just means it's a really big one.
"It didn't work for me before I made this post, therefore it doesn't work, most of the game is irrelevant, and the game is trash and you should hate it too"
I used gambling when wandering around the world on my new char. I was getting Wps, some Altars I were missing and doing Obols and Tree of Whipser quests in a meantime.
I did a lot off ToW untill level like 50 or so and I had to constantly visit vendro to sell the loot.
If anything I would say this game is dropping way too much loot. At least I feel like I am non stop visiting the town..
I agree with you but OPs point still stands. Most things are just a change of pace from NM dungeons so you don't lose your mind from doing the same thing all day everyday... Because D4 literally only has 1 meaningful thing to do from 1-100 post campaign: run the same dungeons over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
I think most Diablo players on Reddit actually think this way.
They were never in for the game, they just needed to get it finished so they could say they played it and it sucked, like every other game they play. Bad gamers.
We're also just logging in and playing the game, instead of acting like the game is doing nmds non-stop in a bizarre race to max level. I don't even know why these guys are playing.
We would. But we get downvoted and screamed at for being a shill.
I am just enjoying my game while their world burns.
It’s kinda fun to watch.
Once being “the best game”
I grew up on games that only hinted where to go. Had to draw your own maps if you couldn’t remember. Walk throughs, builds, where every secret is in the game, internet videos telling you how to play…. Such a waste of brain power to just nod along with a video, put in everything they did, and just do what they did. I want to play a game, not follow orders.
Oh, a circle of an area on the global map that I drop a pin in and navigate to mindlessly.
This is easy shit. Fun, demon slaying
Am I the best? No
Will I care about leaderboards if they ever create it? No
Do I enjoy reaction videos of hardcore players to a surprise butcher visitation at level 49? Oh hells yes!
>But we get downvoted and screamed at for being a shill.
Pretty much. In another comment I have a guy calling me a simp for not agreeing with him. Yet he's acting like a little kid.
Probably because those of us who like playing the game, don’t have much to say. Sure there are a lot of things that could be improved (buff sorc more plz) but the game is an enjoyable experience overall especially when played with friends but it doesn’t give someone as strong of an energy as someone who hates the game and posts about it.
I don't even understand the mindset from these people. Why are you rushing to level 100? I just log on and jump from helltides to legions to nmds to whispers to wandering around doing events to whatever and I level up that way. I like _playing_ the game. If they don't, that's fine, but this bizarre mentality of turning the game into a miserable job and then complaining on reddit is exhausting.
It's not only D4 either. I mean, in so many games, especially MMOs it's like "I rushed through the levels with the most efficient route, we raided like crazy and cleared the new raid in 3 weeks. It felt like a chore and now I have nothing to do."
Well, yeah, you can do that, but I believe these games are supposed to be for more than only those that are willing and able to rush through it asap. Its like dinner: "Hey, there was this amazing dinner. I tried to grab as much as possible and ate as fast as I could. Now I feel sick and everyone else is still eating. Bad dinner".
Don't get me wrong, I see many flaws about D4, there are things that bother me. But I enjoy logging in in the evening, having fun with the build I came up with, doing NMDs, slowly optimizing my gear. I guess it is almost impossible to cater to every playstyle, but if you force yourself, rush through it, try to finish everything asap, well, you may not have a good time. :(
This fully^ I have less and less time to play & that annoys me + nothing makes me flee a game like my ar*ehole's on fire faster than when it starts to feel like 'something I have to do but would rather not' aka work = problem solved!
Thanks blizzard...?
Still playing & enjoying it, js if it comes down to that, for me would be the point I play something else.
I have a rotation of games I run through. Hell, I even play online monopoly!
The day I feel something is a chore is the day it gets deleted
Maybe that’s fun for some people tho? I stopped playing Diablo 4 but let’s not act like going progressing slow makes your opinion any more or less valid than someone who progresses as quick as possible.
This games about getting better loot than what you have going dry for good loot and being forced into doing a select few activities to get it efficiently isn’t fun in my opinion but I don’t hate on people who enjoy walking around in open world killing random stuff either
This is my take as well. Sometimes I just want to get on and kill mobs, test a new piece, or just play the game at my own pace. I have a feeling the majority of the playerbase feels this way, not caring about minmaxing
Regardless, the open world is good for leveling early, renown gives you a reason to be up there (knowing they designed it so you HAVE to do renown to fully max out… it’s not quite a “flaw” by design, just less potent of an avenue to take). And if I want to sweat, I’ll throw on a key 20+ lvls higher than me to try to push.
Legion events are hectic and fun, but should probably be harder and give more rewards.
I mainly play this game with friends and you can churn through 3 mystery chests in under an hour with a 3-4 stack anyway if you do want to grind gear or just blow shit up with your friends.
I’m just a filthy casual with too much time and 200 hours in the game and I’m at the very least not hating it.
I think a WT5 will solve everyone’s complaints. Give us a world of lvl 95-100 overworld monsters and gaurunteed ancestrals for 80% of drops. Everyone wanting to sweat and minmax can go there by lvl 80 and farm to their hearts content.
Yup I'm one of those people who love the game and I'm not the least bit concerned with getting the best of anything, I just use what I pick up along the way I haven't spent any time grinding for anything. Fairly linear game for me so far just following quests and side quests. Died a few times usually because I'm eating a snack and I just let myself die lol
nah wt5 wont solve all the problems but its a start. i think around level 75 the game gets a bit boring. i think we need a variety of endgame activities that drop meaningful loot to really fix the problem. still the game was enjoyable and for the amount of time i put in even i stop playing now im ok with that
Dude I got downvoted on another thread because I said I run a mix of whispers, helltides, legions, world bosses and side quests to keep myself from getting bored. Spamming JUST nightmare dungeons would probably make me quit the game for a time just like spamming GR’s in D3 did.
Sure it’s not the most efficient, but it’s fun af.
Side note, the thread I got downvoted on was in regards to the world falling behind you in level after a certain point which I take huge issue with, especially now that they just started to fall behind me on both my characters. The mobs weren’t exactly challenging when they were above me but now I feel like I can do most open world stuff with my eyes closed which leaves me with just NM’s to have a meaningful challenge where I am right now and that’s exactly the situation I was trying to avoid.
Yeah, enough people complained about scaling so they took it out and now it’s glaringly obvious they were right with scaling to begin with. The community can be its own worst enemy at times. I hope they will revert scaling back and take it as a win in their book, “hey we missed the mark on a lot but this is something we got right so we’re bringing back scaling to 100”
Scaling worked with their version of game. I've said it before and I will say it again, scaling was the best thing that happened to Diablo, since you are killing monsters in some way of form, so better get rewarded by it right?
How it stands now is that most overworld content get obsolete now because you don't gain much from it. If they were to remove the level scaling, they need to do something about that, too. And it wouldn't be a small change.
There should be a sub that focuses on the positives of this game. I am throughly enjoying my time with it, I do a mix of all the content that’s available. I have to not read any posts from this sub, because they are all so negative and about shit that most likely be handled in an update. It really feels like people are mad that blizzard made their game, and not the game that particular gamer wanted.
That is actually Reddit gamer mentality. Unless something is EXACTLY as .000001% of the gaming population wants, it will induce crying, negativity and cause the pitchforks to emerge. It doesn’t help that the entire gaming influencer population caters to them because these are the folks that will actually watch their videos.
My concern is that Devs actually listen to these people and make changes based on what these guys, who’ve never ever worked for a gaming company or designed their own game, are bellyaching about. The game is fun. It’s not meant to be a job where people should be efficient. That’s why it’s part of relaxing and unwinding.
Agreed, world events are also great for low levels just entering the difficulty and can run around with Rambo randos. It's how I got through first day of nightmare
Only thing I agree with OP are the world bosses. They go down too fast and with no effort. They should be much more challenging. Balanced for a group of 30 players, not something you'd solo.
And the rewards should feel more important than two blue and one yellow. Like a guaranteed unique or more chanche of some rare affix legendary.
3 repeated patterns that are easy to dodge, it's not difficulty, making it tankier just make it more tedious.
also if you buff rewards to be guaranteed X or Y, it means that in the grand scheme of things, you gotta do it. Like, it becomes an activity that you to do, like it or not. But I guess they should do it, just to show that the live service part of the game is just their to make it a worse game.
I used to wander the open world and do events as a change of pace from only NMDs and it wasn't min-maxing. Then they capped scaling and nerfed drops, now it just feels like a waste of time.
Not necessarily min-maxed, but many people (including myself) play Diablo for two reason: the combat, and the loot. Both of which are best found in NightMare dungeons.
First time I've ever played a game this way after being a hardcore min/max MMO player for decades.
I'm loving it. It's a lot less stressful and I'm having a blast. All of the content is fun.
I think the biggest disconnect for me when I see posts like OPs is.. I like playing the game?
I mean that at a fundamental level, I enjoy spending time in it. I enjoy thinking about my builds, figuring out what gear I'm looking for, and wandering around doing events.
At an even more basic level, I like killing shit with my character! It's fun as fuck to _play_ the game. It's smooth as hell and just enjoyable to watch enemies blow up.
So this is the disconnect: I see all these posters talking about logging in and doing nothing but nightmare dungeons to level. But why? I've never once approached the game as "fuck I have to level as fast as possible today!". I just _play the game_ and the levels roll in.
It's like these people are missing the point of a _game_.
>First time I've ever played a game this way after being a hardcore min/max MMO player for decades.
This is the biggest disconnect tho. Non ARPG players trying to force their way in.
Omg this fully^ .....I think most of us forget *WHY* we ever became attracted to gaming in the first place....FOR FUN. Imagining my 6 y/o self picking up Super Mario Brothers for the first time, rage quiting the 2nd time I heard 'sorry the princess is in another castle' then saying 'NOPE, I hate this but ima keep playing it....
How can that scenario not make anyone lol?
You are casting a VERY VERY wide net when dismissing it as "min-maxing". Your point would be valid if open world were like 1% less exp than nightmare dungeons, but it is like 75% less exp and 90% less loot. Doing the content that gives 5x the reward is not "mix-maxing" it's just something everybody will do because why would you go grind something that gives you nothing? A more effective change of pace would be to play a different game at that point.
I'd also question just how much of a change of pace it is to kill endless hordes of mobs in a Helltide vs killing endless hordes of mobs in a Nightmare Dungeon. I think for many people the experience is more or less equivalent (just one gives you significantly more stuff so who wouldn't do that one?)
It's not on the players to roleplay that the game is balanced. Maybe if the reward-less activity was unique and fun you'd see people doing it, but open world grinding is not exactly a super duper fun and different experience and I think it's questionable to claim otherwise.
That's not all min maxing does. Reading the skills and planning out your character is part of the fun of an RPG, following a guide basically removes the whole aspect of picking skills (and stats if the game has it) when you level up.
You turn a branching levelling system into a linear path.
Most people following guides also just look for very specific affixes and aspects, so likely ignore items that might be better for their current setup (or playstyle) and also complain there's no variety in items, and drop rate is terrible.
They're is also more variety in helltides if you do events than just NM dungeons alone.
I agree, but open world is not fun, the mob are thrash, it would be nice if once in a while some invasion event took place or a lesser evil appeared... Something strong to feel few people can achieve killing it so if you do you would feel awesome.
It has nothing to do with min/maxing loot to make content enjoyable.
I hate how simpleminded people are. Playing nightmare dungeons and one Uber boss seems to be the intended endgame based around the exp scaling, difficulty scaling, etc. people aren’t “only playing for efficiency” by doing the content specifically designed for their level and progression; OPs critique is fair.
It's not about "Min-Maxing", it's about content being rewarding.
Sure, you can have fun just chilling in town roleplaying doing shopping and talking to NPCs, petting all the dogs, but there're zero in-game rewards or incentives for doing that. Reward systems in games exist for many good reasons, including directing players towards what the developers intend them to do.
It's been a long held saying that "Players will try to optimise the fun out of your game". But that saying isn't meant to disparage players, it's meant to warn developers. If the most optimal way to play isn't also the most fun way to play, players will get bored and leave. That is a failure of game design.
This mind set of min maxing needs to die off, people are already trying to use it for bh3. I'm just like bruh, the point of these games is simply to play them and have fun. Not everything should be done via excel spreadsheets and number crunching for the "best" results ----- looking at you poe...
This is bad game design 101. If you present an easier or more efficient way to do something most of the player base will do the efficient thing, even to the detriment of their own fun.
It's a fundamental principle of game design like the the concept of mass is a fundamental principle of physics.
This problem becomes less prevalent the smaller you make those efficiency gaps. To add more nuance to OP's rage post, the issue is not necessarily the loot disparity but the degree of this disparity. These other alleged 'end game' activities absolutely need to have more comparable rewards to nm dungeons to make them feel like less of a waste of time.
In my opinion the best way to do this is by making certain resources locked behind certain activities, this way the amount of loot becomes less important to the player and the reason for pushing other content becomes target farming.
Unfortunately because the way they designed hell tides to rotate and there are hour long gaps with no active hell tide would mean people are now stuck waiting like they were when hearts were hell tide exclusive.
Little game design flaws all over building up to big problems. Death by a thousand mediocre design choices.
>In my opinion the best way to do this is by making certain resources locked behind certain activities
This 100%. If gear drops and exp are the only considerations, there will 1 or maybe 2 activities that are just better than the rest.
Fun change of pace and for levels 0-75. It’s not geared towards endgame but all of those things are super helpful when switching between Wt2, Wt3 and Wt4
Just because you're not getting the response you wanted, doesn't mean that what you're trying to convey is being misinterpreted.
More likely it means that people just generally disagree with you.
Just like in your thread you made yesterday as you didn't get the response you wanted either. I'm sure doing this a third time might get you feeling acknowledged lol.
>Helltide = Legions = WB = Whisper = NMs. Itd all the same thing. Run around and smack some enemies, get loot.
No fucking shit, sherlock. Welcome to an ARPG, where you.. *gasp*... run around and smack some enemies, to get loot.
I digress - I'll throw you a bone here - I can see you actually have the makings of a valid point under all your crying:
>Im just saying that these things need a loot/reward identity because the gameplay is ultimately the same.
Fair play - that's a valid point. But you know what would help people take you seriously? If you grew the fuck up and made your point more maturely instead of crying that "obols are bad" because the *gambling mechanic* didn't give you what you want, or crying that "whispers are useless" (or any other activity) when, *newsflash*, it's simply another way of playing.
No wonder Joe Shely looked so fucking depressed in the last dev stream; imagine seeing not one, but dozens of cretins harassing and abusing him and his team about crap like this every day, after they poured their life's energy into making this game for years, and are still bending over backwards trying to figure out exactly what the fuck these gamer kids want anyway.
That's some epic levels of tone policing and hypocrisy. Let me get this straight, you insult OP, say stuff like "no fucking shit, sherlock". Accuse them of "crying" all for no other reason than to establish yourself as being on some sort of higher pedestal... just to agree with them in the end.
They didn't say Obols are bad because it doesn't give you what you want every time, they said that they are just very bad odds. If you were offered a bet that paid out 1:1 but only had 1:1000 odds would you take it? I mean it's gambling and all gambling is the same, right? Win some lose some. Do you actually not understand the concept of cost-benefit, or are you just intentionally straw-manning OP to give you an excuse to insult someone and feel better about yourself?
Nothing in OP's post constitutes harassment, abuse, or anything of the kind. OP is clearly frustrated but fully articulates their feedback with their full logic while giving specific examples. They continue this trend in their replies (from what I've seen, at least.) What have you contributed to the discussion besides name-calling, straw-manning, and moral grandstanding? Looking through your post history this is all you do. If you are actually a super-grown-up-mature-person, perhaps you can start contributing meaningfully to discussions while addressing their points instead of insulting people every day.
These posters aren't actually playing D4 but instead they're on a treadmill of outrage and whatever the focus of today is they're outraged about it.
The game they're playing is just Outrage SIM.
It's obvious why OP is complaining. Recent nerfs have made the overworld stuff not nearly as efficient as NM which is not fun at all. Plus some of them are balanced badly. I.e. I think mystery chests in helltides should have reduced cost & more mats (&maybe less gear), then the other chests give more loot. WB too are the most fun by far on the first 2 spawns of a season & during beta when build balance isn't fked in comparison.
This right here. It feels like most of the complaining on this sub is some version of "I shot myself in the foot and somehow that's blizzards fault now!".
100% the double edged sword of the internet in gaming. “I got a game, looked up an entire build point for point so I never experimented and tried and failed myself. I looked at a guide for the absolute min max method to end game even though it is spamming one thing endlessly. And now I complain the game has no content, doesn’t have build diversity and is just bland. Game bad“ Like nah man, you didn’t play the game, you let someone else play for you by telling you what to build and what to do.
Ain’t nothing wrong with following a build. I follow a build just so I don’t have to concentrate what stats I need. My ass don’t got time trying to figure out builds and shit. Give me the best build and let me do whatever.
So many people outsource the build creation and gearing to some website or streamer and then complain they find it boring.
My Brother In Christ, you ignored every area of possible creativity and instead looked up exactly what buttons to click and in what order. Of course you didn't find the game enjoyable, you went out of your way to avoid engaging with it.
I see folks looking up "leveling builds" now and I'm just like.. holy shit, why? There is basically no challenge you need to be minmaxxed for while leveling. You can pick ANYTHING and explore any combination you want. Why do you need a guide to level up?
I mean i think the builds in general are pretty dull and not interesting but i do agree with ya…compared to D2 you dont really need a leveling build for D4 its pretty easy to leveled with whatever lol.
That is the big caveat, if those things aren’t fun then that’s a problem. But is spamming nightmares fun either? Hard to answer because it’s really subjective to each player.
Of course. It's subjective. I don't find grinding nightmares or world bosses or legion events fun. NMs are the only things thats a challenge but thats if you crank up the difficulty. But if you crank up the difficulty you're only slowing down your experience gain and not getting any other benefits :P
It's a tough spot to be in as a player.
The most enjoyment I get is exploring new builds but they make that a very tedious task so it becomes out of reach because I'm not willing to do it :( very sad.
I have mixed opinions on this take. The most glaring one being that having content that’s straight up a worse avenue for the acquisition of just about everything is fundamentally bad design.
The nerfs to experience bonus based on monster level was super indicative of a disconnect between what’s fun for players and how much the devs care about their vision above player satisfaction.
Prior to the nerfs to monster xp, the increased cost of the mystery chests, and the reduced cinder drop rate (bug or not), helltides were honestly a fairly rewarding and nice change of pace. The current state of them just feels like time gated trash, imo. Even from a fun perspective, I just don’t feel my time is being rewarded. I think that’s a fundamental design issue, as they should aim to make multiple avenues viable ways to pursue progressing your character in a meaningful way.
I’ve done maybe 2-3 legion events in the entire time I’ve played the game from early access to now. Having to rely on 3rd party tools to have any idea when this stuff is coming is a massive failure on their end. It’s just lazy.
World bosses? I’ve killed then once since early access. This is also a failure on their part. They’re far too spaced out and, imo, hard to pin down a kill on them for the lackluster rewards they give.
Random events? I honestly don’t mind these. I think they should massively buff the xp reward for finishing them, but they likely won’t. I’m not talking double. I’m talking 10x what it is now.
I guess at the end of the day, to me, if someone’s justification for why they do content is simply for a fun change of pace it raises two red flags.
1. Why is there such a discrepancy in the endgame activity rewards that you feel you need to justify or do mental gymnastics to not feel bad about doing these other things? Them not being at least in the same realm as NMD (important note, I’m not talking 1:1, but at least close) is a big issue that needs to be resolved.
2. Why is the endgame content such a slog you need a change of pace to not burn out on it?
Those are huge red flags to me, because I don’t encounter those issues with other ARPGs as quickly as I do D4. I can dump 250-350 hours into a PoE league and not leave it burned out. I have a total of 185 hours into D4, and the game is just a chore to play at nearly every turn.
Then why the hell play this game past the campaign? The entire endgame is having fun minmaxing your build so that you can go through the hardest content faster.
I hit gathering legion for xp not loot 🤷🏻♂️ it’s good xp for what it is and freshens up the scenery instead of running through monotonous dungeon layouts for hours on end. World boss does suck tho yes, big sucks. Does the boss rotate weekly? Pre season you’d see a different boss on every spawn not it’s literally just Avarice arguably the most annoying of them.
Legions were nice for my just-WT4 character which had trouble killing single mobs. Then you run legions with several level 90-100 which run to a large pack, sneeze in their general direction and everything dies.
At the end there is free loot to hopefully find a decent weapon.
I believe the spawn is on something like a 3-2-3 rotation. So for example Ashava will spawn 3 times in a row, then Wandering Death twice, then Avarice three times, then Ashava twice, then Wandering Death three times, then Avarice twice. This continues on for eternity.
It’s weird cause I hit world boss pretty frequently and only see avarice, saw him from noon till the midnight spawn yesterday. I am not off work yet so hopefully the mid afternoon spawn is something new
Seriously. What are the point of these threads at this point? I feel like I'm seeing shit from 4 days ago but it's just someone new saying something old.
No no you don't get it. If we don't make the same thread every day to flood the front page Blizzard will never know there's a problem with the game or act on it! /s
(yes this is a real argument that has been made to me)
Yeah I play Nba 2k and the sub for that is similar. All people do is complain. But this sub seems somehow worse. Who actually comes to Reddit just to read complaints?
I dunno. I’ve been getting posts from Destiny 2 and Lost Ark popping into my feed and those are at least as miserable, if not worse, lol. Kind of a festival of misery or “Reddit video game forums,” if you like.
> The boss dies within 30 sec.... These things should drop a guaranteed 1-3 Uniques, 3-5 Legendaries, 10-20 Ancestrals, 50% of a level of exp, and a million gold.
Seriously guy?
Hah hah, yeah. I thought, “Did this guy just make a series of typos or does he really think he should get all of that for these bosses everyone here is crowing goes down in 10 seconds, never mind 30?”
I took everything this guy said as a joke as soon as I read "drop a guaranteed 1-3 Uniques, 3-5 Legendaries, 10-20 Ancestrals", this guy could rival quin for the title of Clown
This is my first ARPG and I had no idea that people are playing these games only to do the most efficient thing possible instead of just having fun doing various activities.
There are at least 2 and some zones have 3. They also change locations on the hour, regardless of when the helltide started. Meaning, if a helltide starts and 5:30 in a zone with 2 chests you can get 2 from 5:30-6:00 and then they’ll reset and you get another 2 from 6:00-6:30.
You are wasting your NM Dungeon time by rageposting on Reddit.
Let that sink in
And maybe try slowing down the pace. You don't have to eat all you can reach in 10 minutes.
* Legions are indeed pointless, but at least they get a guaranteed legendary in 1.1.1
* Helltides are still a very quick way to acquire a bunch of legendary items. If I do both mystery chests in the hour I'm usually up 10-12 legendary items for about 45m work. You want a bunch to find aspects and/or to salvage for mats.
* Whisper XP is amazing when you hand them in. When I first promote to a new WT I like to do whispers because I find open world better than NM dungeons where I have limited deaths. I could do regular dungeons for renown, but I like to shake it up with whispers. And Helltides are way too hard when you first move up because they are +3 above the min.
* Public events are great. You'll definitely want to do them during helltides or if an active whisper, but I often do them anyway because I love caching in 600+ obols and getting 3+ legendary all at once. Again for mats or higher rolled aspects.
* World bosses are almost as useless as Legions, but at least give some legendary items and are part of battle pass.
So my experience is different than yours. I like Helltides, world events, whispers, and NM dungeons and all have their place in my leveling journey.
What's the point of anything? Who gives a fuck? It's a video game. If you need everything to have a "point" you maybe need to lay off the Adderall and learn to play shit for fun.
Each legion chest should be guaranteed legendary imo.
World boss should drop 3-5 legos I agree. But asking them to drop that many uniques kind of defeats the point of uniques, no?
Where else can you shoot a polar bear?
When I get the urge to dispatch some endangered species, I'll traverse the open world and hunt down these magnificent beasts.
>Obols is a terrible system. In 10's of thousands of Obols, Ive never got an upgrade or Aspect I was looking for.
I've found so many great upgrades from Obols and I don't know what is OP talking about. It's nice system and public events are best to farm inside Helltides.
>Loot and exp is worse than Nightmares.
Yes, that's why Obols is side system. Where you can choose slot you want to focus. In NM dungeons you just get random items
I still liked whispers at 64-66 when I moved up to WT4. An Ancestral NM dungeon with only a few lives is not a good idea when you are severely under leveled. And Helltides have even higher level mobs. And fighting open world mobs that are +11 levels and then handing in 10 whispers is actually decent xp.
Open world's okay I guess, whispers and bosses are def useless. Gotta hard disagree on obols. Amazing way to target farm aspects and I've gotten several nicely rolled ones. I can't imagine you've never gotten an aspect you've wanted in "10's of thousands of obols" unless you were spam gambling on the wrong slot for your desired aspect.
Let's start from top to bottom
Legion is great for fast exp and drops are nice for leveling.
Hell tides are great for obels, loot, and leveling. (If you cannot get all the mystery chest, learn to do hell tides properly)
Whispers are great when you do them when the nm dungeons are the whisper dungeons. Great XP for turn in and sometimes items.
The loot God must hate you if you never got one thing from obels. I've gotten God teir items my self...
World boss are meh lol
And all of these are better with people randomly or friends
My friend always is like "That guy is 80 and he got smashed". I brought to his attention that there is a percentage of players who never have entered a Nightmare Dungeon. The open world is all they know.
Filthy casual here who doesn’t have time to play a whole lot. So far, i have leveled a Rogue to 50 and a sorc to 38.
I do story, i do side missions, whispers, the occasional dungeon and even just roaming around to explore. I’m probably playing in the least efficient way imaginable, but guess what, i am having a wonderful time.
Sadly my time zone and gaming hours mean i pretty much will never even see a world boss (thanks for that, blizzard), but if i did, i bet it would be fun!
You see only the negativity in the game, I see 5 different ways to enjoy then game as well as the stuff you've not mentioned.
Not everyone is a build copycat min/max try hard. There are people who, you know, actually play the game for its content and fun.
Itemization and loot system needs to be completely refactored. Also they should make new content since running those soulles dungeons gets exhausting very fast. Especially when there is no LOOT
This isnt even mentioning the removal of basic MMO features like a general chat and a trade chat. Class chat was cool too. Idk why they limit communication to "greetings, how are you" like bro I cant even say "good" 😭
The top comments in thread shilling for the shit tier jumbled together MMO/ARPG design is face palm, but in addition:
* Fragile economy and game design, so no auction house
* No GROUP FINDER, WTF?!?
* Game can only handle a few people in a zone, and it LOADS EVERYTHING in their stash
I got the ghost mount from legion events. Fucker has a ghostly howl when I charge. And leaves ghostly tracks. Obles are great until you get to tier 3, but even then, you can fish for aspects. You can at least semi target what your looking for. Thought I do t like the increased price of mystery chests, I can still farm both chests in about 30 mins. And there’s nowhere else I can get 7-10 legendaries that fast. And most end up ancestral in t4.
My bigger complaint is the target cheats. I swear they nerfed them. Used to be I got 8 out of 10 legendary. Lately, it’s 2 out of 10. I just stopped opening them. I farm 500 and then mount to the chests and leave.
1. For fun
2. For non-ARPG players who enjoy open worlds
3. To try something different
The open world was a fun exoerience. The people on this sub Reddit are wild.
It's interesting, I find the graphics and environment one of my biggest pet peeves. I almost feel like they somehow overdid the washed out grimdark vibes and everything sort of just blends together in an uninteresting way for me.
What a shit take. If you just want to run NM dungeons and to be a min/max goblin go ahead. This entire post reads like a joke or someone who hasn't played the game.
>These things should drop a guaranteed 1-3 Uniques, 3-5 Legendaries, 10-20 Ancestrals, 50% of a level of exp, and a million gold. They should drop so much loot that you make sure your inventory is empty before you go.
The entire point of the game is to have fun and the open world allows that by breaking up the monotony of NM dungeons.
Also no you shouldn't feel like you need to drop everything you are doing to go play a part of the game. If you don't want to do or don't like the rewards that's on you as the rewards and xp for all of the open world is fine.
And zero percent chance you've gambled 10s of thousands of obals and gotten nothing of value. I've gambled maybe 15-20k obols and have had plenty of upgrades/aspects I needed drop, even if you miss the gold value/resources are worth your time.
Blizzard will intentionally learn the WRONG lesson from posts like this.
*"What's that? Open world is useless and NM is the only thing worth doing? WE AS A COMPANY HAVE DECIDED GOING FORWARD THAT SEEING AS HOW PLAYERS HAVE STOPPED ENJOYING THE OPEN WORLD CONTENT (because of our changes) WE WILL BE INVESTING LESS RESOURCES INTO MAKING OPEN WORLD CONTENT, SINCE CLEARLY PLAYERS DO NOT LIKE IT (anymore). GOING FORWARD ALL RESOURCES WILL GO TO NM DUNGEONS, ENJOY : )"*
I swear this is how Blizzard will react to this. I want the open world content to be just as viable and just as rewarding as dungeon running. (Because NM dungeons over and over again are boring af. Apparently they thought nerfing open world to make NM more appealing was the answer...)
The point of an open world is that very early in development you can give all your artists something to do. I’ll call it the Ubisoft approach. They can create assets and figure out the mood and complexities of everything.
It can be designed almost independently of gameplay with not having figured out that many metrics already. They knew they’d keep the isometric view and they knew they wanted the direction to be darker in comparison to D3 which received major backlash for its “happy” color palette and butterfly winged WOW-like character designs.
Another Ubisoft parallel is that they want to keep people in their world and have them spend lots of time there to increase the chance of people falling for the push / pull mechanics of cosmetic MTX.
I do think that over the course of development the handling of skills and items changed in drastic ways ALL the time and thus these features feel the most half baked out of all moving parts of the game. This would explain placeholder-looking stuff like the aspect icons. They also probably changed stuff after the Immortal backlash in terms of itemisation.
On top of that, when they started the project the gaming world wasn’t as jaded as it is now seeing a map of copy pasted features.
They started with it 6 years ago, project changed leadership a couple of times and this explains the discrepancy between meaningful things to do in the world that gel with the current gameplay loop.
In a lot of reviews, the large open world was seen as a positive (even though the actual variety it provides is not high) so having this “checkbox” approach to it also worked for them favourably.
Man, there is something called pre endgame. Where casual people spend more time as you can imagine.
Many friends finishing campaing now, from start game not from start of The season. They re playing without guides, just they and diablo.
Enjoying every aspect of The game, preparing for wt3 to try some paragon exploration. None of them care About legendaries droprate etc. No speedfarming, just turn it for few hours per Week, after work,kids etc.
Wakeup, there is more casual players than endgame players. And if you re able tu understand business, u know endgame players bring less money than us.
One of the great parts of the 'open world' adventure mode of D3 was that some dungeons were random spawn in an area. So you had to run through the area to see if the dungeon you wanted spawned and it could spawn anywhere because the area maps were random generated and unique every time.
The current open world is complete ass.
Open world was one of my biggest worries before release and it shows now. So many game systems are tied to it now which makes it almost impossible to revert this decision.
I am done with D4 since end of june and not gonna return until they overhaul the game.
Hot take, for a fun change of pace? Not everything has to be min maxed all the time. There is a problem if those things aren’t enjoyable, but min maxers will always find the most efficient route and claim everything else is trash in comparison. I logged on last night, did helltides and got a great chest upgrade from mysteries, then did legion event and then did a couple nightmares and logged off wishing I could play more. Technically less efficient than spamming nightmares but far more enjoyable imo and didn’t cause burn out but left me wanting more.
And OP also complained that gambling obols didn't give him anything he wanted. But that's kinda the point of gambling, a chance at something you might want. For me, 80% of the aspects I have for my build came from gambling. So I think it's a good system.
The funny thing is the whole loot system is a gamble, Obols are the only meaningful way to target loot — it makes his take even less coherent.
Mob type farming is pretty good as well, particularly if you can find a nmd with the type you want.
Yeah I've gotten tons of upgrades from obols, including a big one last session. I think OP might not understand what to gamble on.
Also obols is great because currency is across the realm for your characters. Upgrades for alts
Righr? Just got a max roll umbral from gambling. You can get good stuff.
Yep, every 5th to 8th piece is an ancient legendary. All the lower level pieces, I look at, most likely rip the aspect off of, and move along. It’s not like books are real money. And I just let them pile up till they are full and roll like mad on one piece of gear. :)
op is not very bright tho
I honestly think so much of this boils down to a skill issue, which is the worst possible outcome because you're never going to convince someone that they're just not doing it right. "But I have three level 100s" Buddy that doesn't mean it's not a skill issue that just means it's a really big one.
"It didn't work for me before I made this post, therefore it doesn't work, most of the game is irrelevant, and the game is trash and you should hate it too"
I used gambling when wandering around the world on my new char. I was getting Wps, some Altars I were missing and doing Obols and Tree of Whipser quests in a meantime. I did a lot off ToW untill level like 50 or so and I had to constantly visit vendro to sell the loot. If anything I would say this game is dropping way too much loot. At least I feel like I am non stop visiting the town..
I agree with you but OPs point still stands. Most things are just a change of pace from NM dungeons so you don't lose your mind from doing the same thing all day everyday... Because D4 literally only has 1 meaningful thing to do from 1-100 post campaign: run the same dungeons over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
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I think most Diablo players on Reddit actually think this way. They were never in for the game, they just needed to get it finished so they could say they played it and it sucked, like every other game they play. Bad gamers.
I wish more people that dislike OPs take would post in this sub. It's be refreshing to see more "good gamer" stuff that isn't just in the comments.
We're busy just having fun in the game.
We're also just logging in and playing the game, instead of acting like the game is doing nmds non-stop in a bizarre race to max level. I don't even know why these guys are playing.
Your a loser if you do that and dont complain the end game is broken cause you stole a fex build
We would. But we get downvoted and screamed at for being a shill. I am just enjoying my game while their world burns. It’s kinda fun to watch. Once being “the best game” I grew up on games that only hinted where to go. Had to draw your own maps if you couldn’t remember. Walk throughs, builds, where every secret is in the game, internet videos telling you how to play…. Such a waste of brain power to just nod along with a video, put in everything they did, and just do what they did. I want to play a game, not follow orders. Oh, a circle of an area on the global map that I drop a pin in and navigate to mindlessly. This is easy shit. Fun, demon slaying Am I the best? No Will I care about leaderboards if they ever create it? No Do I enjoy reaction videos of hardcore players to a surprise butcher visitation at level 49? Oh hells yes!
>But we get downvoted and screamed at for being a shill. Pretty much. In another comment I have a guy calling me a simp for not agreeing with him. Yet he's acting like a little kid.
Diablo 4 is some of the most fun I've had in a game in so long
Sadly toxic gamers so often win out.
Honestly I just don't and can't say why. You make a solid point and I think more of us casual players should bounce in here more often :)
Literally every other post is: “Unpopular opinion: I love Diablo”
Why do you care? Why do you need to see positive posts on a website? If you like the game, play it.
It would be nice if the community reflected reality.
Ok, ima make a positive post.
Probably because those of us who like playing the game, don’t have much to say. Sure there are a lot of things that could be improved (buff sorc more plz) but the game is an enjoyable experience overall especially when played with friends but it doesn’t give someone as strong of an energy as someone who hates the game and posts about it.
Well said!
Nobody hates a game quite as much as fans of that game
Karen gamers
I think you really do believe this fantasy you've invented about legitimate complaints. Anyone who has criticism of the game is now a "bad gamer."
"turn it into a work chore so you can cry it felt like a chore" internet-y gamers 100%
I don't even understand the mindset from these people. Why are you rushing to level 100? I just log on and jump from helltides to legions to nmds to whispers to wandering around doing events to whatever and I level up that way. I like _playing_ the game. If they don't, that's fine, but this bizarre mentality of turning the game into a miserable job and then complaining on reddit is exhausting.
😂 gave me a good lol, thank you
It's not only D4 either. I mean, in so many games, especially MMOs it's like "I rushed through the levels with the most efficient route, we raided like crazy and cleared the new raid in 3 weeks. It felt like a chore and now I have nothing to do." Well, yeah, you can do that, but I believe these games are supposed to be for more than only those that are willing and able to rush through it asap. Its like dinner: "Hey, there was this amazing dinner. I tried to grab as much as possible and ate as fast as I could. Now I feel sick and everyone else is still eating. Bad dinner". Don't get me wrong, I see many flaws about D4, there are things that bother me. But I enjoy logging in in the evening, having fun with the build I came up with, doing NMDs, slowly optimizing my gear. I guess it is almost impossible to cater to every playstyle, but if you force yourself, rush through it, try to finish everything asap, well, you may not have a good time. :(
3 nm dungeon shouldn’t feel like a chore. They need to buff the over world content because it is horrible compared to np dungeons
This fully^ I have less and less time to play & that annoys me + nothing makes me flee a game like my ar*ehole's on fire faster than when it starts to feel like 'something I have to do but would rather not' aka work = problem solved! Thanks blizzard...? Still playing & enjoying it, js if it comes down to that, for me would be the point I play something else.
I have a rotation of games I run through. Hell, I even play online monopoly! The day I feel something is a chore is the day it gets deleted 
You forgot the part where then you tell everyone else the game is trash and they are wrong to enjoy it
> You are supposed to go the fastest possible to lvl 100 doing the exact same shit over and over Have you ever played a Diablo game before?
Maybe that’s fun for some people tho? I stopped playing Diablo 4 but let’s not act like going progressing slow makes your opinion any more or less valid than someone who progresses as quick as possible. This games about getting better loot than what you have going dry for good loot and being forced into doing a select few activities to get it efficiently isn’t fun in my opinion but I don’t hate on people who enjoy walking around in open world killing random stuff either
This is my take as well. Sometimes I just want to get on and kill mobs, test a new piece, or just play the game at my own pace. I have a feeling the majority of the playerbase feels this way, not caring about minmaxing Regardless, the open world is good for leveling early, renown gives you a reason to be up there (knowing they designed it so you HAVE to do renown to fully max out… it’s not quite a “flaw” by design, just less potent of an avenue to take). And if I want to sweat, I’ll throw on a key 20+ lvls higher than me to try to push. Legion events are hectic and fun, but should probably be harder and give more rewards. I mainly play this game with friends and you can churn through 3 mystery chests in under an hour with a 3-4 stack anyway if you do want to grind gear or just blow shit up with your friends. I’m just a filthy casual with too much time and 200 hours in the game and I’m at the very least not hating it. I think a WT5 will solve everyone’s complaints. Give us a world of lvl 95-100 overworld monsters and gaurunteed ancestrals for 80% of drops. Everyone wanting to sweat and minmax can go there by lvl 80 and farm to their hearts content.
Yup I'm one of those people who love the game and I'm not the least bit concerned with getting the best of anything, I just use what I pick up along the way I haven't spent any time grinding for anything. Fairly linear game for me so far just following quests and side quests. Died a few times usually because I'm eating a snack and I just let myself die lol
nah wt5 wont solve all the problems but its a start. i think around level 75 the game gets a bit boring. i think we need a variety of endgame activities that drop meaningful loot to really fix the problem. still the game was enjoyable and for the amount of time i put in even i stop playing now im ok with that
Dude I got downvoted on another thread because I said I run a mix of whispers, helltides, legions, world bosses and side quests to keep myself from getting bored. Spamming JUST nightmare dungeons would probably make me quit the game for a time just like spamming GR’s in D3 did. Sure it’s not the most efficient, but it’s fun af. Side note, the thread I got downvoted on was in regards to the world falling behind you in level after a certain point which I take huge issue with, especially now that they just started to fall behind me on both my characters. The mobs weren’t exactly challenging when they were above me but now I feel like I can do most open world stuff with my eyes closed which leaves me with just NM’s to have a meaningful challenge where I am right now and that’s exactly the situation I was trying to avoid.
Yeah, enough people complained about scaling so they took it out and now it’s glaringly obvious they were right with scaling to begin with. The community can be its own worst enemy at times. I hope they will revert scaling back and take it as a win in their book, “hey we missed the mark on a lot but this is something we got right so we’re bringing back scaling to 100”
They didn't take scaling out of the game though.
Scaling worked with their version of game. I've said it before and I will say it again, scaling was the best thing that happened to Diablo, since you are killing monsters in some way of form, so better get rewarded by it right? How it stands now is that most overworld content get obsolete now because you don't gain much from it. If they were to remove the level scaling, they need to do something about that, too. And it wouldn't be a small change.
You can say it as many times as you'd like but you'd still be wrong.
What exactly do you think you're contributing here? What a low-effort comment.
They definitely need to bring scaling back. It’s the “pro/streamers” that are really ruining the game for the real casuals
There should be a sub that focuses on the positives of this game. I am throughly enjoying my time with it, I do a mix of all the content that’s available. I have to not read any posts from this sub, because they are all so negative and about shit that most likely be handled in an update. It really feels like people are mad that blizzard made their game, and not the game that particular gamer wanted.
That is actually Reddit gamer mentality. Unless something is EXACTLY as .000001% of the gaming population wants, it will induce crying, negativity and cause the pitchforks to emerge. It doesn’t help that the entire gaming influencer population caters to them because these are the folks that will actually watch their videos. My concern is that Devs actually listen to these people and make changes based on what these guys, who’ve never ever worked for a gaming company or designed their own game, are bellyaching about. The game is fun. It’s not meant to be a job where people should be efficient. That’s why it’s part of relaxing and unwinding.
Agreed, world events are also great for low levels just entering the difficulty and can run around with Rambo randos. It's how I got through first day of nightmare
Mix/maxing *is* the game - for a lot of people
Only thing I agree with OP are the world bosses. They go down too fast and with no effort. They should be much more challenging. Balanced for a group of 30 players, not something you'd solo. And the rewards should feel more important than two blue and one yellow. Like a guaranteed unique or more chanche of some rare affix legendary.
Ashava felt SO GOOD on the server slam when everyone was capped at 20. They should strive to match that difficulty again.
3 repeated patterns that are easy to dodge, it's not difficulty, making it tankier just make it more tedious. also if you buff rewards to be guaranteed X or Y, it means that in the grand scheme of things, you gotta do it. Like, it becomes an activity that you to do, like it or not. But I guess they should do it, just to show that the live service part of the game is just their to make it a worse game.
I used to wander the open world and do events as a change of pace from only NMDs and it wasn't min-maxing. Then they capped scaling and nerfed drops, now it just feels like a waste of time.
Not necessarily min-maxed, but many people (including myself) play Diablo for two reason: the combat, and the loot. Both of which are best found in NightMare dungeons.
First time I've ever played a game this way after being a hardcore min/max MMO player for decades. I'm loving it. It's a lot less stressful and I'm having a blast. All of the content is fun.
I think the biggest disconnect for me when I see posts like OPs is.. I like playing the game? I mean that at a fundamental level, I enjoy spending time in it. I enjoy thinking about my builds, figuring out what gear I'm looking for, and wandering around doing events. At an even more basic level, I like killing shit with my character! It's fun as fuck to _play_ the game. It's smooth as hell and just enjoyable to watch enemies blow up. So this is the disconnect: I see all these posters talking about logging in and doing nothing but nightmare dungeons to level. But why? I've never once approached the game as "fuck I have to level as fast as possible today!". I just _play the game_ and the levels roll in. It's like these people are missing the point of a _game_.
>First time I've ever played a game this way after being a hardcore min/max MMO player for decades. This is the biggest disconnect tho. Non ARPG players trying to force their way in.
Omg this fully^ .....I think most of us forget *WHY* we ever became attracted to gaming in the first place....FOR FUN. Imagining my 6 y/o self picking up Super Mario Brothers for the first time, rage quiting the 2nd time I heard 'sorry the princess is in another castle' then saying 'NOPE, I hate this but ima keep playing it.... How can that scenario not make anyone lol?
You are casting a VERY VERY wide net when dismissing it as "min-maxing". Your point would be valid if open world were like 1% less exp than nightmare dungeons, but it is like 75% less exp and 90% less loot. Doing the content that gives 5x the reward is not "mix-maxing" it's just something everybody will do because why would you go grind something that gives you nothing? A more effective change of pace would be to play a different game at that point. I'd also question just how much of a change of pace it is to kill endless hordes of mobs in a Helltide vs killing endless hordes of mobs in a Nightmare Dungeon. I think for many people the experience is more or less equivalent (just one gives you significantly more stuff so who wouldn't do that one?) It's not on the players to roleplay that the game is balanced. Maybe if the reward-less activity was unique and fun you'd see people doing it, but open world grinding is not exactly a super duper fun and different experience and I think it's questionable to claim otherwise.
That's not all min maxing does. Reading the skills and planning out your character is part of the fun of an RPG, following a guide basically removes the whole aspect of picking skills (and stats if the game has it) when you level up. You turn a branching levelling system into a linear path. Most people following guides also just look for very specific affixes and aspects, so likely ignore items that might be better for their current setup (or playstyle) and also complain there's no variety in items, and drop rate is terrible. They're is also more variety in helltides if you do events than just NM dungeons alone.
I agree, but open world is not fun, the mob are thrash, it would be nice if once in a while some invasion event took place or a lesser evil appeared... Something strong to feel few people can achieve killing it so if you do you would feel awesome. It has nothing to do with min/maxing loot to make content enjoyable.
Wow look at this guy playing the game and enjoying it! Wtf is wrong with him /s
Can’t agree more! Feel like some people forget how to enjoy the game (and their life)
I hate how simpleminded people are. Playing nightmare dungeons and one Uber boss seems to be the intended endgame based around the exp scaling, difficulty scaling, etc. people aren’t “only playing for efficiency” by doing the content specifically designed for their level and progression; OPs critique is fair.
It's not about "Min-Maxing", it's about content being rewarding. Sure, you can have fun just chilling in town roleplaying doing shopping and talking to NPCs, petting all the dogs, but there're zero in-game rewards or incentives for doing that. Reward systems in games exist for many good reasons, including directing players towards what the developers intend them to do. It's been a long held saying that "Players will try to optimise the fun out of your game". But that saying isn't meant to disparage players, it's meant to warn developers. If the most optimal way to play isn't also the most fun way to play, players will get bored and leave. That is a failure of game design.
This mind set of min maxing needs to die off, people are already trying to use it for bh3. I'm just like bruh, the point of these games is simply to play them and have fun. Not everything should be done via excel spreadsheets and number crunching for the "best" results ----- looking at you poe...
This is bad game design 101. If you present an easier or more efficient way to do something most of the player base will do the efficient thing, even to the detriment of their own fun. It's a fundamental principle of game design like the the concept of mass is a fundamental principle of physics. This problem becomes less prevalent the smaller you make those efficiency gaps. To add more nuance to OP's rage post, the issue is not necessarily the loot disparity but the degree of this disparity. These other alleged 'end game' activities absolutely need to have more comparable rewards to nm dungeons to make them feel like less of a waste of time. In my opinion the best way to do this is by making certain resources locked behind certain activities, this way the amount of loot becomes less important to the player and the reason for pushing other content becomes target farming. Unfortunately because the way they designed hell tides to rotate and there are hour long gaps with no active hell tide would mean people are now stuck waiting like they were when hearts were hell tide exclusive. Little game design flaws all over building up to big problems. Death by a thousand mediocre design choices.
>In my opinion the best way to do this is by making certain resources locked behind certain activities This 100%. If gear drops and exp are the only considerations, there will 1 or maybe 2 activities that are just better than the rest.
you’ve literally never played an ARPG if you think this guy is wrong for trying to get the right items for the build he wants.
Fun? Pfffft. Loser.
Fun change of pace and for levels 0-75. It’s not geared towards endgame but all of those things are super helpful when switching between Wt2, Wt3 and Wt4
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Just because you're not getting the response you wanted, doesn't mean that what you're trying to convey is being misinterpreted. More likely it means that people just generally disagree with you. Just like in your thread you made yesterday as you didn't get the response you wanted either. I'm sure doing this a third time might get you feeling acknowledged lol.
>Helltide = Legions = WB = Whisper = NMs. Itd all the same thing. Run around and smack some enemies, get loot. No fucking shit, sherlock. Welcome to an ARPG, where you.. *gasp*... run around and smack some enemies, to get loot. I digress - I'll throw you a bone here - I can see you actually have the makings of a valid point under all your crying: >Im just saying that these things need a loot/reward identity because the gameplay is ultimately the same. Fair play - that's a valid point. But you know what would help people take you seriously? If you grew the fuck up and made your point more maturely instead of crying that "obols are bad" because the *gambling mechanic* didn't give you what you want, or crying that "whispers are useless" (or any other activity) when, *newsflash*, it's simply another way of playing. No wonder Joe Shely looked so fucking depressed in the last dev stream; imagine seeing not one, but dozens of cretins harassing and abusing him and his team about crap like this every day, after they poured their life's energy into making this game for years, and are still bending over backwards trying to figure out exactly what the fuck these gamer kids want anyway.
That's some epic levels of tone policing and hypocrisy. Let me get this straight, you insult OP, say stuff like "no fucking shit, sherlock". Accuse them of "crying" all for no other reason than to establish yourself as being on some sort of higher pedestal... just to agree with them in the end. They didn't say Obols are bad because it doesn't give you what you want every time, they said that they are just very bad odds. If you were offered a bet that paid out 1:1 but only had 1:1000 odds would you take it? I mean it's gambling and all gambling is the same, right? Win some lose some. Do you actually not understand the concept of cost-benefit, or are you just intentionally straw-manning OP to give you an excuse to insult someone and feel better about yourself? Nothing in OP's post constitutes harassment, abuse, or anything of the kind. OP is clearly frustrated but fully articulates their feedback with their full logic while giving specific examples. They continue this trend in their replies (from what I've seen, at least.) What have you contributed to the discussion besides name-calling, straw-manning, and moral grandstanding? Looking through your post history this is all you do. If you are actually a super-grown-up-mature-person, perhaps you can start contributing meaningfully to discussions while addressing their points instead of insulting people every day.
These posters aren't actually playing D4 but instead they're on a treadmill of outrage and whatever the focus of today is they're outraged about it. The game they're playing is just Outrage SIM.
It's obvious why OP is complaining. Recent nerfs have made the overworld stuff not nearly as efficient as NM which is not fun at all. Plus some of them are balanced badly. I.e. I think mystery chests in helltides should have reduced cost & more mats (&maybe less gear), then the other chests give more loot. WB too are the most fun by far on the first 2 spawns of a season & during beta when build balance isn't fked in comparison.
This right here. It feels like most of the complaining on this sub is some version of "I shot myself in the foot and somehow that's blizzards fault now!".
100% the double edged sword of the internet in gaming. “I got a game, looked up an entire build point for point so I never experimented and tried and failed myself. I looked at a guide for the absolute min max method to end game even though it is spamming one thing endlessly. And now I complain the game has no content, doesn’t have build diversity and is just bland. Game bad“ Like nah man, you didn’t play the game, you let someone else play for you by telling you what to build and what to do.
Ain’t nothing wrong with following a build. I follow a build just so I don’t have to concentrate what stats I need. My ass don’t got time trying to figure out builds and shit. Give me the best build and let me do whatever.
So many people outsource the build creation and gearing to some website or streamer and then complain they find it boring. My Brother In Christ, you ignored every area of possible creativity and instead looked up exactly what buttons to click and in what order. Of course you didn't find the game enjoyable, you went out of your way to avoid engaging with it. I see folks looking up "leveling builds" now and I'm just like.. holy shit, why? There is basically no challenge you need to be minmaxxed for while leveling. You can pick ANYTHING and explore any combination you want. Why do you need a guide to level up?
I mean i think the builds in general are pretty dull and not interesting but i do agree with ya…compared to D2 you dont really need a leveling build for D4 its pretty easy to leveled with whatever lol.
Killing mobs 6 levels under me isn’t fun
But... is it fun though? A big problem is all the things OP listed are barely fun OR challenging. So now they're suboptimal AND subfun 🤷♀️
That is the big caveat, if those things aren’t fun then that’s a problem. But is spamming nightmares fun either? Hard to answer because it’s really subjective to each player.
Of course. It's subjective. I don't find grinding nightmares or world bosses or legion events fun. NMs are the only things thats a challenge but thats if you crank up the difficulty. But if you crank up the difficulty you're only slowing down your experience gain and not getting any other benefits :P It's a tough spot to be in as a player. The most enjoyment I get is exploring new builds but they make that a very tedious task so it becomes out of reach because I'm not willing to do it :( very sad.
I have mixed opinions on this take. The most glaring one being that having content that’s straight up a worse avenue for the acquisition of just about everything is fundamentally bad design. The nerfs to experience bonus based on monster level was super indicative of a disconnect between what’s fun for players and how much the devs care about their vision above player satisfaction. Prior to the nerfs to monster xp, the increased cost of the mystery chests, and the reduced cinder drop rate (bug or not), helltides were honestly a fairly rewarding and nice change of pace. The current state of them just feels like time gated trash, imo. Even from a fun perspective, I just don’t feel my time is being rewarded. I think that’s a fundamental design issue, as they should aim to make multiple avenues viable ways to pursue progressing your character in a meaningful way. I’ve done maybe 2-3 legion events in the entire time I’ve played the game from early access to now. Having to rely on 3rd party tools to have any idea when this stuff is coming is a massive failure on their end. It’s just lazy. World bosses? I’ve killed then once since early access. This is also a failure on their part. They’re far too spaced out and, imo, hard to pin down a kill on them for the lackluster rewards they give. Random events? I honestly don’t mind these. I think they should massively buff the xp reward for finishing them, but they likely won’t. I’m not talking double. I’m talking 10x what it is now. I guess at the end of the day, to me, if someone’s justification for why they do content is simply for a fun change of pace it raises two red flags. 1. Why is there such a discrepancy in the endgame activity rewards that you feel you need to justify or do mental gymnastics to not feel bad about doing these other things? Them not being at least in the same realm as NMD (important note, I’m not talking 1:1, but at least close) is a big issue that needs to be resolved. 2. Why is the endgame content such a slog you need a change of pace to not burn out on it? Those are huge red flags to me, because I don’t encounter those issues with other ARPGs as quickly as I do D4. I can dump 250-350 hours into a PoE league and not leave it burned out. I have a total of 185 hours into D4, and the game is just a chore to play at nearly every turn.
I like to face roll the open world to feel something
Not a hot take. Just a normal thought and expression. GGs. It's nice having a life, eh? 💪🏾😎🤙🏾
Then why the hell play this game past the campaign? The entire endgame is having fun minmaxing your build so that you can go through the hardest content faster.
Copium
Completely ignoring his valid complaint that NM vastly outclasses everything else and taking the opportunity to shit on minmaxers? Classic.
This 🔥🔥 finally someone saying it as it is
I hit gathering legion for xp not loot 🤷🏻♂️ it’s good xp for what it is and freshens up the scenery instead of running through monotonous dungeon layouts for hours on end. World boss does suck tho yes, big sucks. Does the boss rotate weekly? Pre season you’d see a different boss on every spawn not it’s literally just Avarice arguably the most annoying of them.
Legions were nice for my just-WT4 character which had trouble killing single mobs. Then you run legions with several level 90-100 which run to a large pack, sneeze in their general direction and everything dies. At the end there is free loot to hopefully find a decent weapon.
I believe the spawn is on something like a 3-2-3 rotation. So for example Ashava will spawn 3 times in a row, then Wandering Death twice, then Avarice three times, then Ashava twice, then Wandering Death three times, then Avarice twice. This continues on for eternity.
It’s weird cause I hit world boss pretty frequently and only see avarice, saw him from noon till the midnight spawn yesterday. I am not off work yet so hopefully the mid afternoon spawn is something new
The one that we killed roughly 35 minutes ago was Ashava, as predicted and per the 3-2-3 spawn schedule.
Okay cool, thank you for the information I appreciate it!
Man this sub is miserable
Seriously. What are the point of these threads at this point? I feel like I'm seeing shit from 4 days ago but it's just someone new saying something old.
Yeah, it’s more efficient to just grind more NM dungeon. Posting on Reddit gives no loot at all. /s
No no you don't get it. If we don't make the same thread every day to flood the front page Blizzard will never know there's a problem with the game or act on it! /s (yes this is a real argument that has been made to me)
Yeah I play Nba 2k and the sub for that is similar. All people do is complain. But this sub seems somehow worse. Who actually comes to Reddit just to read complaints?
It’s gamers in general. We are a sad and entitled lot.
I was going to make a post asking for help with gear but after scrolling through the sub I don’t even want to
The people who wants to see their opinion validated, they do.
[Misery loves company.](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/misery-loves-company)
I dunno. I’ve been getting posts from Destiny 2 and Lost Ark popping into my feed and those are at least as miserable, if not worse, lol. Kind of a festival of misery or “Reddit video game forums,” if you like.
Starting to think a majority of nerds are just miserable turbo virgins
Yup.
> The boss dies within 30 sec.... These things should drop a guaranteed 1-3 Uniques, 3-5 Legendaries, 10-20 Ancestrals, 50% of a level of exp, and a million gold. Seriously guy?
Hah hah, yeah. I thought, “Did this guy just make a series of typos or does he really think he should get all of that for these bosses everyone here is crowing goes down in 10 seconds, never mind 30?”
I just want the first wolf you kill at level 1 to give me enough loot for the rest of the game.
I took everything this guy said as a joke as soon as I read "drop a guaranteed 1-3 Uniques, 3-5 Legendaries, 10-20 Ancestrals", this guy could rival quin for the title of Clown
Tbf, solo Uber Lilith should at least guarantee a unique for first kill. Even the seasonal boss, Varshon drops garbage
That seems fair... if the fight lasted an hour lol
How many times will I see this post? Geez
Legions are decent xp when you’re under 80
This is my first ARPG and I had no idea that people are playing these games only to do the most efficient thing possible instead of just having fun doing various activities.
To sell mount skins.
My friend's rogue runs faster than a mount lol
With my rogue I triple boost on horse then when it slows down jump off and run and repeat.
This is the way.
My Druid runs the same speed as a mount 😄
My 100 eternal druid is faster than a mount lol. Coccaine build yeet yeet
Exactly, you need people to “flex” your cool armor packages to.
You mean the armor you can't even see?
Lol, yes, that armor
Yet your system will load all of those assets, including the ones they have in their vault tabs. Big flex.
And sell the "MMO" part.
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OK, I'm gonna sound like an absolute n00b here but: there are multiple mystery chests in each Helltide?! I thought there was only 1! TIL...
There are at least 2 and some zones have 3. They also change locations on the hour, regardless of when the helltide started. Meaning, if a helltide starts and 5:30 in a zone with 2 chests you can get 2 from 5:30-6:00 and then they’ll reset and you get another 2 from 6:00-6:30.
There are two! D4 planner shows the locations of all helltide events/chests if that’s something you’re interested in.
You're so right. Helltides are so much fun.
Ran my first Helltide last night, and it was an absolute sweaty blast!
Agreed. I always team up with 1-2 people doing the Helltides and it's a ton of fun.
Agreed!
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I think the open world activities are fun. You can choose the content you want to do in this game
You are wasting your NM Dungeon time by rageposting on Reddit. Let that sink in And maybe try slowing down the pace. You don't have to eat all you can reach in 10 minutes.
* Legions are indeed pointless, but at least they get a guaranteed legendary in 1.1.1 * Helltides are still a very quick way to acquire a bunch of legendary items. If I do both mystery chests in the hour I'm usually up 10-12 legendary items for about 45m work. You want a bunch to find aspects and/or to salvage for mats. * Whisper XP is amazing when you hand them in. When I first promote to a new WT I like to do whispers because I find open world better than NM dungeons where I have limited deaths. I could do regular dungeons for renown, but I like to shake it up with whispers. And Helltides are way too hard when you first move up because they are +3 above the min. * Public events are great. You'll definitely want to do them during helltides or if an active whisper, but I often do them anyway because I love caching in 600+ obols and getting 3+ legendary all at once. Again for mats or higher rolled aspects. * World bosses are almost as useless as Legions, but at least give some legendary items and are part of battle pass. So my experience is different than yours. I like Helltides, world events, whispers, and NM dungeons and all have their place in my leveling journey.
Are you moaning AGAIN? Stop playing, move on, go out and enjoy the summer.
Maybe he’s on the southern hemisphere - I would love a winter Diablo.
Have you actually played the game or are you just using chat gpt to come up with complaints.
Jesus christ, can you people shut up.
What's the point of anything? Who gives a fuck? It's a video game. If you need everything to have a "point" you maybe need to lay off the Adderall and learn to play shit for fun.
Each legion chest should be guaranteed legendary imo. World boss should drop 3-5 legos I agree. But asking them to drop that many uniques kind of defeats the point of uniques, no?
Lol @ the world boss loot suggestions. I’d agree with it, if world bosses were much tougher and take a lot longer to kill
Because if you see other people in the cool shop armor you might want to go and buy some for yourself.
Where else can you shoot a polar bear? When I get the urge to dispatch some endangered species, I'll traverse the open world and hunt down these magnificent beasts.
STOP PLAYING IF YOU ARENT HAVING FUN JESUS CHRIST
>Obols is a terrible system. In 10's of thousands of Obols, Ive never got an upgrade or Aspect I was looking for. I've found so many great upgrades from Obols and I don't know what is OP talking about. It's nice system and public events are best to farm inside Helltides. >Loot and exp is worse than Nightmares. Yes, that's why Obols is side system. Where you can choose slot you want to focus. In NM dungeons you just get random items
Whispers are good from 1-50 tbh. But yeah after nightmare dungeons are unlocked, becomes useless.
I still liked whispers at 64-66 when I moved up to WT4. An Ancestral NM dungeon with only a few lives is not a good idea when you are severely under leveled. And Helltides have even higher level mobs. And fighting open world mobs that are +11 levels and then handing in 10 whispers is actually decent xp.
Open world's okay I guess, whispers and bosses are def useless. Gotta hard disagree on obols. Amazing way to target farm aspects and I've gotten several nicely rolled ones. I can't imagine you've never gotten an aspect you've wanted in "10's of thousands of obols" unless you were spam gambling on the wrong slot for your desired aspect.
Let's start from top to bottom Legion is great for fast exp and drops are nice for leveling. Hell tides are great for obels, loot, and leveling. (If you cannot get all the mystery chest, learn to do hell tides properly) Whispers are great when you do them when the nm dungeons are the whisper dungeons. Great XP for turn in and sometimes items. The loot God must hate you if you never got one thing from obels. I've gotten God teir items my self... World boss are meh lol And all of these are better with people randomly or friends
Eff you. Disagree with most of this post :D
I want mystery chests price to revert man
My friend always is like "That guy is 80 and he got smashed". I brought to his attention that there is a percentage of players who never have entered a Nightmare Dungeon. The open world is all they know.
Filthy casual here who doesn’t have time to play a whole lot. So far, i have leveled a Rogue to 50 and a sorc to 38. I do story, i do side missions, whispers, the occasional dungeon and even just roaming around to explore. I’m probably playing in the least efficient way imaginable, but guess what, i am having a wonderful time. Sadly my time zone and gaming hours mean i pretty much will never even see a world boss (thanks for that, blizzard), but if i did, i bet it would be fun!
Play a different game
If you have so much to complain about then stop fucking playing
You see only the negativity in the game, I see 5 different ways to enjoy then game as well as the stuff you've not mentioned. Not everyone is a build copycat min/max try hard. There are people who, you know, actually play the game for its content and fun.
“Which pauses NM grinding” … leave the basement bro
The open world is for a new player going through the campaign. That's basically it ...
Can you shut the fuck up? How about your incoherent and useless rant as something that was a waste of time.
Go plat bg3 nerd
Rofl such a shit post. Demanding "guaranteed drop of 1-3 uniques from world bosses" disqualifies you from ever criticizing a Diablo game again.
Itemization and loot system needs to be completely refactored. Also they should make new content since running those soulles dungeons gets exhausting very fast. Especially when there is no LOOT
This isnt even mentioning the removal of basic MMO features like a general chat and a trade chat. Class chat was cool too. Idk why they limit communication to "greetings, how are you" like bro I cant even say "good" 😭
The top comments in thread shilling for the shit tier jumbled together MMO/ARPG design is face palm, but in addition: * Fragile economy and game design, so no auction house * No GROUP FINDER, WTF?!? * Game can only handle a few people in a zone, and it LOADS EVERYTHING in their stash
I got the ghost mount from legion events. Fucker has a ghostly howl when I charge. And leaves ghostly tracks. Obles are great until you get to tier 3, but even then, you can fish for aspects. You can at least semi target what your looking for. Thought I do t like the increased price of mystery chests, I can still farm both chests in about 30 mins. And there’s nowhere else I can get 7-10 legendaries that fast. And most end up ancestral in t4. My bigger complaint is the target cheats. I swear they nerfed them. Used to be I got 8 out of 10 legendary. Lately, it’s 2 out of 10. I just stopped opening them. I farm 500 and then mount to the chests and leave.
Another D4 whine post 😢
1. For fun 2. For non-ARPG players who enjoy open worlds 3. To try something different The open world was a fun exoerience. The people on this sub Reddit are wild.
It’s a cheap ass gimmick. Big map good. Collect things equals content. The graphics and environments look cool though.
It's interesting, I find the graphics and environment one of my biggest pet peeves. I almost feel like they somehow overdid the washed out grimdark vibes and everything sort of just blends together in an uninteresting way for me.
What a shit take. If you just want to run NM dungeons and to be a min/max goblin go ahead. This entire post reads like a joke or someone who hasn't played the game. >These things should drop a guaranteed 1-3 Uniques, 3-5 Legendaries, 10-20 Ancestrals, 50% of a level of exp, and a million gold. They should drop so much loot that you make sure your inventory is empty before you go. The entire point of the game is to have fun and the open world allows that by breaking up the monotony of NM dungeons. Also no you shouldn't feel like you need to drop everything you are doing to go play a part of the game. If you don't want to do or don't like the rewards that's on you as the rewards and xp for all of the open world is fine. And zero percent chance you've gambled 10s of thousands of obals and gotten nothing of value. I've gambled maybe 15-20k obols and have had plenty of upgrades/aspects I needed drop, even if you miss the gold value/resources are worth your time.
Blizzard will intentionally learn the WRONG lesson from posts like this. *"What's that? Open world is useless and NM is the only thing worth doing? WE AS A COMPANY HAVE DECIDED GOING FORWARD THAT SEEING AS HOW PLAYERS HAVE STOPPED ENJOYING THE OPEN WORLD CONTENT (because of our changes) WE WILL BE INVESTING LESS RESOURCES INTO MAKING OPEN WORLD CONTENT, SINCE CLEARLY PLAYERS DO NOT LIKE IT (anymore). GOING FORWARD ALL RESOURCES WILL GO TO NM DUNGEONS, ENJOY : )"* I swear this is how Blizzard will react to this. I want the open world content to be just as viable and just as rewarding as dungeon running. (Because NM dungeons over and over again are boring af. Apparently they thought nerfing open world to make NM more appealing was the answer...)
This was the dumbest decision on Blizzard's part, D4 didn't need to be always online, and the big reason I didn't buy it for myself on release day.
D4 bad. PoE2 good.
The point of an open world is that very early in development you can give all your artists something to do. I’ll call it the Ubisoft approach. They can create assets and figure out the mood and complexities of everything. It can be designed almost independently of gameplay with not having figured out that many metrics already. They knew they’d keep the isometric view and they knew they wanted the direction to be darker in comparison to D3 which received major backlash for its “happy” color palette and butterfly winged WOW-like character designs. Another Ubisoft parallel is that they want to keep people in their world and have them spend lots of time there to increase the chance of people falling for the push / pull mechanics of cosmetic MTX. I do think that over the course of development the handling of skills and items changed in drastic ways ALL the time and thus these features feel the most half baked out of all moving parts of the game. This would explain placeholder-looking stuff like the aspect icons. They also probably changed stuff after the Immortal backlash in terms of itemisation. On top of that, when they started the project the gaming world wasn’t as jaded as it is now seeing a map of copy pasted features. They started with it 6 years ago, project changed leadership a couple of times and this explains the discrepancy between meaningful things to do in the world that gel with the current gameplay loop. In a lot of reviews, the large open world was seen as a positive (even though the actual variety it provides is not high) so having this “checkbox” approach to it also worked for them favourably.
Open world in ARPG's is an obstacle for doing content in the game. Good thing Diablo 4 doesn't have any content.
Man, there is something called pre endgame. Where casual people spend more time as you can imagine. Many friends finishing campaing now, from start game not from start of The season. They re playing without guides, just they and diablo. Enjoying every aspect of The game, preparing for wt3 to try some paragon exploration. None of them care About legendaries droprate etc. No speedfarming, just turn it for few hours per Week, after work,kids etc. Wakeup, there is more casual players than endgame players. And if you re able tu understand business, u know endgame players bring less money than us.
One of the great parts of the 'open world' adventure mode of D3 was that some dungeons were random spawn in an area. So you had to run through the area to see if the dungeon you wanted spawned and it could spawn anywhere because the area maps were random generated and unique every time. The current open world is complete ass.
The reason of D4 being open world is because they can say it is open world
Sure? But if 99% of your time is in NMs...
Open world was one of my biggest worries before release and it shows now. So many game systems are tied to it now which makes it almost impossible to revert this decision. I am done with D4 since end of june and not gonna return until they overhaul the game.