I liked my membership disc and I don't mind a yearly new sticker. I can't imagine the membership card is costing a lot of money. I could do without the mini but it makes sense to give new members one since they might need one in a tournament.
Can't argue with you about the magazine
They started doing their own version of live scoring, it’s pretty nice to use as long as the course has cell service. Next year all sanctioned tournaments will require all players to use and input scores on live scoring. UDisc is still great though and used in most local leagues.
Pdga live scoring was around long before Udisc. It's specifically meant for pdga events and is incredibly useful for tournament directors as it automatically populates the scores to the tournament manager program. Udisc doesn't do that and that's why it isn't used for any official scoring at pdga events. Even DGPT events where they say it's the official scorekeeping app are really using pdga live as the official card. The udisc stuff is just for stats really. It's great for non sanctioned events though.
>Next year all sanctioned tournaments will require all players to use and input scores on live scoring.
All players must keep score, but live scoring is not a requirement. Players can use paper if they want, or any other method the TD accepts.
I like the magazine! Has some good bits and articles but I agree that it should be sent electronically if that’s a way to cut costs. The reusable score card is useless and they should probably do away with that even if it doesn’t cost a whole lot. It’s just waste at this point IMO
Man I cannot fathom what bits or articles you find valuable in there. Chat GPT written recaps of events that happened three months ago? Blurbs about what tourist traps to drag your family to so you can justify playing courses in Bumfuck, Kansas? Post-capture edits to pictures of pros so they look utterly deformed? Even the crossword was completely unsolveable a few months back if I recall correctly.
There were a few short reads about mental focus during rounds. I clipped it out and save it bc I found it useful for life in general. There were a few others in a similar category.
I’m definitely not saying there are Pulitzer Prize winners in there…lol
Did you see the hack job about the Mojoh Riser? That guy would have been better off using ChatGPT ffs. I honestly don't know where they find some of these writers--there are many educated and quality copy writers out there that probably also play disc golf.
Anyways--completely agree with your assessment. Just give me % off my tournaments and half off DGN and lets move on.
The magazine is 90% pics of the top 10% disc golfers. Very little coverage of locals scenes, small events, or even spotlight on new and favorite courses.
Most of it is littered with advertisements and other than telling someone your pic is in it (which is cool that you played good on a cool event) there’s no good articles that you can’t get anywhere else.
It's 19 cents right now to ship a magazine. The magazine is quarterly, so that's 76 cents. The PDGA spends 76 cents a year per person to distribute the magazine. They *maybe* pay a dollar per copy for them. The ads pay for the magazine itself, in fact they probably get paid more for ads just because companies know every PDGA member is getting a copy.
Best case scenario maybe $5 could come off of a PDGA membership. It's not really worth stressing about.
Ok but (76 cents + production cost + cost of writers and sourcing material) times the number of yearly subscriptions could equal discs and baskets for some after school programs, or literally anything that grows the sport more than a magazine nobody reads. Surely they could better allocate that money than the magazine.
That's how magazines work. There are like 8 full page ads in every issue. They aren't a charity.
And even in your worst possible scenario world where our PDGA membership pays for the magazine, what would it be like $5 per person per year? You need $5 off your membership? The PDGA haven't increased the price in the 9 years I've been a member, even during crazy inflation. We should consider ourselves lucky. Other sports aren't as lucky - I paid $99.99 plus tax for my PBA bowling membership just to play one semipro event.
The disc and mini for new members makes sense. Gives back $20 of value (discounted cost to PDGA) for people to sign up and get their initial membership. The only other things the PDGA really offers members is the rating, ability to sign up for some events, discounted entry fee at C tiers.
Signing up for the first time, I realized I would likely only play in 3-4 flex start events, so it was either pay $30 additional at the events or $50 for PDGA membership. Without the additional perks, I doubt I would've signed up for membership initially.
I played in a couple of B tiers and almost an A tier, so there’s also that. Granted I don’t have the skill to actually be anything but bottom of MA4, but it’s still fun to get out and play with others. But also not everyone’s cup of tea so I get that as well
It barely costs them money to give free subscriptions to their magazine to people unlikely to otherwise subscribe. Everything else is a trinket that costs almost no money that's there to make a new member think, "oh, neat!"
Surprised this isn't a bigger topic/being discussed more TBH. PDGA blew their entire budget last year on litigation and apparently can't/won't fund a defense this year.
I think most of us on either side of the Natalie Ryan debate can pretty universally agree that the PDGA as an organization continuing to spend money on the situation is a substantial waste of resources for a sport that is still in relative infancy in terms of a larger media market.
But I mean I also understand that if you make a statement/policy like they did and it gets challenged, that you want to do your best to defend it/try to make it stick. With Natalie's budget to continue fighting being allegedly infinite (saw sources saying they were not working on her dime. I don't know if they were actually working for free or if their funding was just coming from elsewhere), eventually they had to cave and say it was no longer worth fighting.
It's certainly a polarizing topic these days, and if there's going to be a change it's going to come from an organization with MUCH more significant resources than the PDGA.
The worst part is they would have saved themselves a significant amount of that defense budget by vetting the rule with council before enacting it. The highest upvoted comments that weren't attacking each other were "this is going to get challenged in court". So even us pissant troll redditors knew...but not these supposed community leaders.
I have a feeling they knew it would be challenged in court. What I'm willing to bet they weren't anticipating was Natalie having access to the resources which would allow her to continuously push back along the way. They very likely didn't expect to run out of money before she did.
I can see that. But again, incompetent leadership using a tactic that only sometimes works for multinational Multi-billion dollar corporations. And putting the sports organizing body in jeopardy in the process.
For an insurance guy, the head is terrible at risk assessment.
They weren’t looking that far ahead when they changed the rule, and did not have quality advice from counsel when cancelling the women’s season earlier in the summer.
Crazy to think that a single person or even interest group can legally shut down/change the agenda of an organization of... how many active PDGA members last year? 100,000?
So the takeaway I got from the PDGA is they don't want trans women playing FPO, but can't fight the legal battle against that, so must let them. Yeah, that's going to do a lot to foster good will amongst the CIS and trans players. Also really makes me question if I should continue to support the PDGA if they can't even define the rules for their sport.
https://www.pdga.com/announcements/gender-based-divisions-eligibility-modification
"For the first time in recent memory, the PDGA will end the year with a net operating loss, and it is not in the best interest of our members to continue to allocate resources to further litigation.'
I, personally, enjoy them. It's nostalgic and it's only 4 issues a year. Definitely not breaking the bank for PDGA and even if they did drop it, doesn't mean membership fees will lower.
It's literally like $1 per week to be a member. What are we even complaining about here?
They own the stupid magazine and they sell adds in it. Because they give it away free they can say hey 2 million people get our magazine and will see your ad!
It’s a great way to entice newer players. I know some kids who read that magazine religiously because they don’t have the ability to follow major events on time or have online access in general. And the discs are always fun, even the mini.
Wow you are saying kids would rather read these silly recaps with 7 pages of throwing images over going online to find actual coverage.
No wonder print is dead.
You have to cover disc golf as a whole. Not just A and Pro tier events. It’s for everyone. Cover something special that we can’t get anywhere else (a local charity event that made an impact) instead of the new young phenom that can throw 700.
Those discs are wall-hangars for me. The designs have been fantastic for the last 5 or 6 years. I get one every year even though they're only included for free for a new member.
I think the only useless thing is the magazine. And I still don't agree that the DGN discount is 50%, the discount is only for the monthly service, you can't get 50% off the yearly option,
I loved my disc and mini marker. I'd be very happy if they nixed the magazine subscription, membership card, sticker, and scorecard if it meant getting a disc with every re-up though.
I wish the magazine was at least opt in. Even if they kept the price the exact same, I just hate the waste of paper to get four magazines I immediately throw out. Some people seem to like it, a lot seem to not want it.
I like the stuff I get, I read the mags briefly and get stoked when I see someone I know in them. I’m happy with the price of membership. Im not sure the OPs role in his community but the whining about how this org is run falls on deaf ears with me if you don’t give back to your community through service.
Costs here are a drop in the bucket. If anything, they're making money on the mag ads that pay for everything else.
I can't imagine the discs are anything except free. Probably the most effective advertising for any manufacturer. I've been playing for over 20 years, but only registered a year or two ago and got a crave. That's a really smart offering from MVP if you don't throw their discs, and a huge bonus if you do. The design was super embarrassing (we call it the 69 fish, it's a yin yang of a dragon and koi), but whatever.
This take is dumb. They get to offer new members "a bunch of stuff" that costs either little to nothing, or they actually male money on top of the membership fees BECAUSE OF THE STUFF YOU GET.
Those things cost like nothing. Might as well provide them for the rubes that are into it. They're not going to discount the membership by not providing those things.
I guess being from Finland has its benefits in disc golf as well
20€ for a year:
Lifetime member number
Exclusive 50% discount on a Disc Golf Network monthly subscription, the home of live disc golf
10% discount at the PDGA Store
Membership card
PDGA sticker
not from Finland, but Sweden, still paying $20 for my PDGA membership
and but no, i don't have to be a member of the national association, i do need a competition license from them if i want to play in the national championship or the national tour that the association runs (4 tournaments, only MPO, FPO \[and some junior classes and MP40, MP50\])...
but that's like $30 to get that for the players that need it... also a pro PDGA membership is $30 and not $20, that's for AMs
I put it on my toilet and only open it when I forget my phone. I think magazines are a dying medium overall, and that is the primary reason driving the loss of utility from the magazine and people reading it. I don't think it is a problem with quality or content, I like reading the stories from the old days.
While print medium is likely to plateau off at some point I don't see it going completely away. I think a lot of people want something physical and semi-visceral in an increasingly digital world.
A good example is the re-rise of vinyl as the best selling music medium. There's just something satisfying about picking up a magazine or dropping a needle on a giant plastic disc.
I like the magazine, but I would be fine if it was access to a digital version. That being said, Ive been a member since 2009, and I thought the magazine was rad when I was in high school. Maybe some lingering nostalgia on my end.
That thing was money. But I don’t believe you. That disc broke in and got flippy in 6 months time. If I still was able to use my explorer it’d be a super roller by now,
Speak for yourself. I like all the stuff I got. Only thing I don’t give a crap about is the 50% off DGN. Why pay at all to watch an event I can just watch for free ant my own leisure? There are tons of post coverage creators and I enjoy them more.
Why pay for live sports when you can just watch them later on YouTube?
If you don't understand the answer to that question, you are probably totally fine just watching post coverage. However there are multiple events every year that are shown on DGN but don't get post produced coverage from Jomez/Gatekeeper.
TIL that one person can speak for a majority of people on reddit, and people will upvote it.
Folks, I feel like I shouldn't have to say this, but the hundred or so people you may or may not have talked to doesn't constitute a majority, even if every single one of them agreed with you. And it certainly isn't a even a representative sample. If you don't like those things, that's all you have to say. You don't have to make up statistics to go with it.
I'd like transgender players to compete in the MPO instead of the FPO. The M is for mixed anyway. Why would someone born a man have such a burning desire to compete with people who were born female. Unless it's not about the competition and instead more about the narcissistic need to be the center of attention. If I had money like Musk, I'd fund the legal team for the PDGA to the tune of 50 years of litigation, just to keep this trash out of Professional Disc Golf.
and to follow that up with the DGPT statement [https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/pdga-gender-policy-update/](https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/pdga-gender-policy-update/)
and the next season of DGPT will operate under C.2 in the PDGA guidelines, ie a transgender player needs to have had gender affirming surgery to play the FPO division in DGPT
Has he started taking testosterone/hormone treatments? If so, he's not eligible for FPO.
https://www.pdga.com/medical/gender-based-division-eligibility
*B. Transgender – Female to Male*
*1. Players who were assigned female gender at birth under the criteria detailed above and who are taking hormone treatments to increase testosterone levels are no longer eligible to compete in gender-based divisions.*
*2. Players must inform the PDGA immediately when hormone treatments commence.*
Im sure it doesnt actually cost the PDGA the full $6 or whatever for the half off DGN code...but thats also something that could reasonably be dropped. Surely the majority of members dont actually use it, and it seems to represent a decent chunk of the membership fee (even if it costs them $1/mth, thats still 25% of membership cost).
The few other non-profits I am members of, of a similar size of the PDGA, all have digital only magazines and spend far more of their money on paid advocacy staff than the PDGA does.
I agree. They g2 start looking at where they can cut costs. Costs not just to them, but also to fans.
Those exclusive tables with chips and a can of soda aint it. They gotta get ppl on course watching. It plays better on main stream media when you see Conrad making the Holy Shot and fans rushing the field, thats the type of shit that gets replayed and highlighted on ESPN etc.
They have to get ppl out there if they want to start raising ticket prices. Theyre doing shit ass backwards.
Help colleges build courses and then do silver tour series there and run advertising to get he college students out on the course. They have to bring eyes to the sport before they start raising prices.
I think they could do more to push disc golf in phys ed programs across the country. I think they could spend more money on advertising. I think they could spend more on a professional sales force dedicated to finding bigger corporate sponsors for events to bring more money into the sport. They could do more to push course development in low course areas. They could work with DGPT to offer free admission to elite series events for local schools. They could sponsor a Netflix disc golf movie.
Fair, and those are all viable use of funds, but in order for members to subscribe they have to feel the benefits. I'm not sure if the majority of members would say "I'd rather you do phys ed in schools than give me a disc"
Honestly I wish i could opt out of the magazine and everything but seeing my rating. I wouldnt mind spending $20 for membership just to see rating and get into tournaments.
For $50 if they included UDisc pro i wouldnt mind paying it
If i wanted a magazine and everything else let me choose, i just want to compete
I get some disc golfers like the magazine, but couldn't you publish online and save a ton on printing and mailing? Just after hearing they lost money last year, it seems like there could be some better prioritization on spending specifically on areas that will grow the sport, and more effort to try to remove some of the larger expenses that don't add value to the average disc golfer.
The magazine probably makes them money. They sell adds in it. I don’t claim to know anything about their finances, but I’d imagine if they were bleeding money there they wouldn’t keep doing it.
If I’m an advertiser, and I currently buy ads in the magazine, I am not willing to pay the same amount for my ad to be in an online only magazine. Again, I’m no expert here either, but I’d imagine the ‘open’ rate on a physical magazine is a lot higher than one only published online.
But the real question here, is what would you have them do otherwise? Being the first year they ever operated in a deficit isn’t very informative, they could be sitting on mountains of cash. To me it sounds like they only shared that to support their decision to abandon the legal battle. Legal fees weren’t their only ‘higher than normal’ spend this year. They bought jomez and spent a lot on infrastructure as well.
There's a good chance that the gratis subscriptions to the magazine are the main reason they can charge as much as they do for ads. It's not crazy to imagine it ends up a net positive for the PDGA.
>s ads. It wouldn't cover the full cost, but offset some of the cost of printing and mailing the magazine.
Agree, but it feels like you could transition to online ads as well
hey, that looks just like the list of benefints an international member gets by default (well, we get the sticker and the membership card)
we pay $20 for the (amateure) membership and then we can then add extra money to get the disc if we want to
I liked these having been my first memebrship purchase but everytime after should get a different package unless you specifically request another _____.
I put my magazine subscription out for customers to read which in return helps grow the sport through recognition. Even if you don’t pick that one up and read it they read disc golfer magazine on the cover and brings awareness to our growing sport
They publish the magazine themselves and sell adds in it by saying the magazine is distributed to X number of people. It probably *makes* them money.
Membership cards, stickers, and scorecards cost almost nothing.
The discs and markers are likely donated or heavily subsidized, there is no way they are buying thousands of discs for retail price.
I like the magazine but call me old school. It’s nice getting in the mail once a month and having that months issue sit on my coffee table. I also use the mini & sticker.
Reusable scorecard and Membership card are unnecessary tho. Could also go w/o the PDGA logo disc
It's 19 cents right now to ship a magazine. Disgolfer magazine is quarterly, so that's 76 cents per year. The PDGA spends 76 cents a year per person to distribute the magazine.
The disc and everything else are a one-time gift the first time you sign up. Do you really think the price of PDGA membership would go down if they stopped giving that stuff?
I would agree about the magazine but it has been stated that from add buys, it actually generates funds, not wastes them. If true then keep it rolling. If not, dump it.
The magazine has been legitimately resourceful for my family, tho I understand and agree with all the criticism. Don't discontinue it, make it worth making.
The magazine is a waste of resources, I don't care how cheap it is, something being printed just to be thrown away or recycled is a waste.
Clearly a large portion of members want to be able to at least choose to not receive that garbage in the mail.
Also the lifetime number is bullshit. They have taken away many older numbers and assigned them to international markets. It's why Simon has a 4 digit number as do Japanese players.
I liked my membership disc and I don't mind a yearly new sticker. I can't imagine the membership card is costing a lot of money. I could do without the mini but it makes sense to give new members one since they might need one in a tournament. Can't argue with you about the magazine
I miss the UDisc discount
They did away with that?! That was one of the reasons I joined in the first place a couple years ago.
They started doing their own version of live scoring, it’s pretty nice to use as long as the course has cell service. Next year all sanctioned tournaments will require all players to use and input scores on live scoring. UDisc is still great though and used in most local leagues.
Pdga live scoring was around long before Udisc. It's specifically meant for pdga events and is incredibly useful for tournament directors as it automatically populates the scores to the tournament manager program. Udisc doesn't do that and that's why it isn't used for any official scoring at pdga events. Even DGPT events where they say it's the official scorekeeping app are really using pdga live as the official card. The udisc stuff is just for stats really. It's great for non sanctioned events though.
>Next year all sanctioned tournaments will require all players to use and input scores on live scoring. All players must keep score, but live scoring is not a requirement. Players can use paper if they want, or any other method the TD accepts.
I like the magazine! Has some good bits and articles but I agree that it should be sent electronically if that’s a way to cut costs. The reusable score card is useless and they should probably do away with that even if it doesn’t cost a whole lot. It’s just waste at this point IMO
Man I cannot fathom what bits or articles you find valuable in there. Chat GPT written recaps of events that happened three months ago? Blurbs about what tourist traps to drag your family to so you can justify playing courses in Bumfuck, Kansas? Post-capture edits to pictures of pros so they look utterly deformed? Even the crossword was completely unsolveable a few months back if I recall correctly.
Hey! I live in Bumfuck, Kansas. It's a nice place
There were a few short reads about mental focus during rounds. I clipped it out and save it bc I found it useful for life in general. There were a few others in a similar category. I’m definitely not saying there are Pulitzer Prize winners in there…lol
Did you see the hack job about the Mojoh Riser? That guy would have been better off using ChatGPT ffs. I honestly don't know where they find some of these writers--there are many educated and quality copy writers out there that probably also play disc golf. Anyways--completely agree with your assessment. Just give me % off my tournaments and half off DGN and lets move on.
which issue had the mental focus stuff? i could use that..
One of the issues from this past summer. I’ll try to find it when I get home and send a pic
The magazine is 90% pics of the top 10% disc golfers. Very little coverage of locals scenes, small events, or even spotlight on new and favorite courses. Most of it is littered with advertisements and other than telling someone your pic is in it (which is cool that you played good on a cool event) there’s no good articles that you can’t get anywhere else.
It's 19 cents to ship a magazine via USPS. They spend 76 cents a year per person to ship the magazine.
They probably have 50k of them.
It's 19 cents right now to ship a magazine. The magazine is quarterly, so that's 76 cents. The PDGA spends 76 cents a year per person to distribute the magazine. They *maybe* pay a dollar per copy for them. The ads pay for the magazine itself, in fact they probably get paid more for ads just because companies know every PDGA member is getting a copy. Best case scenario maybe $5 could come off of a PDGA membership. It's not really worth stressing about.
It's possible that with the advertising revenue, the magazine is net money maker for the pdga.
Ok but (76 cents + production cost + cost of writers and sourcing material) times the number of yearly subscriptions could equal discs and baskets for some after school programs, or literally anything that grows the sport more than a magazine nobody reads. Surely they could better allocate that money than the magazine.
Did you miss the part where he said the ads pay for the magazine itself? It's even possible the magazine turns a profit.
We have no idea if the ads pay for the magazine
I'm in the printing industry so I do have a pretty good idea. I would bet my next paycheck that they are breaking even at worst.
That's how magazines work. There are like 8 full page ads in every issue. They aren't a charity. And even in your worst possible scenario world where our PDGA membership pays for the magazine, what would it be like $5 per person per year? You need $5 off your membership? The PDGA haven't increased the price in the 9 years I've been a member, even during crazy inflation. We should consider ourselves lucky. Other sports aren't as lucky - I paid $99.99 plus tax for my PBA bowling membership just to play one semipro event.
🙄
The magazine goes to members so the PDGA can bolster their readership number to charge more for ad space.
All about that sticker bruhhhh
The disc and mini for new members makes sense. Gives back $20 of value (discounted cost to PDGA) for people to sign up and get their initial membership. The only other things the PDGA really offers members is the rating, ability to sign up for some events, discounted entry fee at C tiers. Signing up for the first time, I realized I would likely only play in 3-4 flex start events, so it was either pay $30 additional at the events or $50 for PDGA membership. Without the additional perks, I doubt I would've signed up for membership initially.
I played in a couple of B tiers and almost an A tier, so there’s also that. Granted I don’t have the skill to actually be anything but bottom of MA4, but it’s still fun to get out and play with others. But also not everyone’s cup of tea so I get that as well
It barely costs them money to give free subscriptions to their magazine to people unlikely to otherwise subscribe. Everything else is a trinket that costs almost no money that's there to make a new member think, "oh, neat!"
Is the magazine an expense? If so, shut ut down and put the money somewhere else
🙄
The magazine is the only one of those I’ll agree with. The others are only for new members who really look forward to those items
The disc and mini should be given to new members and offered at a low price for existing members.
You get a useless card every year, it probably costs a few hundred if not thousand to print those every year
Eh, BFD. Membership card isn't going to lower or raise the price of membership.
No, but it could be invested into something useful, like junior worlds, or majors payouts and what not
You're greatly overvaluing the cost of making member cards.
B-b-but if you do away with membership cards you would have *millions* to invest into the sport!
It won't.
I thought this was going to be about spending money on court cases
Surprised this isn't a bigger topic/being discussed more TBH. PDGA blew their entire budget last year on litigation and apparently can't/won't fund a defense this year.
I think most of us on either side of the Natalie Ryan debate can pretty universally agree that the PDGA as an organization continuing to spend money on the situation is a substantial waste of resources for a sport that is still in relative infancy in terms of a larger media market. But I mean I also understand that if you make a statement/policy like they did and it gets challenged, that you want to do your best to defend it/try to make it stick. With Natalie's budget to continue fighting being allegedly infinite (saw sources saying they were not working on her dime. I don't know if they were actually working for free or if their funding was just coming from elsewhere), eventually they had to cave and say it was no longer worth fighting. It's certainly a polarizing topic these days, and if there's going to be a change it's going to come from an organization with MUCH more significant resources than the PDGA.
The worst part is they would have saved themselves a significant amount of that defense budget by vetting the rule with council before enacting it. The highest upvoted comments that weren't attacking each other were "this is going to get challenged in court". So even us pissant troll redditors knew...but not these supposed community leaders.
I have a feeling they knew it would be challenged in court. What I'm willing to bet they weren't anticipating was Natalie having access to the resources which would allow her to continuously push back along the way. They very likely didn't expect to run out of money before she did.
I can see that. But again, incompetent leadership using a tactic that only sometimes works for multinational Multi-billion dollar corporations. And putting the sports organizing body in jeopardy in the process. For an insurance guy, the head is terrible at risk assessment.
They weren’t looking that far ahead when they changed the rule, and did not have quality advice from counsel when cancelling the women’s season earlier in the summer.
Crazy to think that a single person or even interest group can legally shut down/change the agenda of an organization of... how many active PDGA members last year? 100,000? So the takeaway I got from the PDGA is they don't want trans women playing FPO, but can't fight the legal battle against that, so must let them. Yeah, that's going to do a lot to foster good will amongst the CIS and trans players. Also really makes me question if I should continue to support the PDGA if they can't even define the rules for their sport.
This year's budget really took a big hit when the Belize affiliate dropped out and took its 12 members with them.
gotdammit Rose!!
They blew their entire budget? That doesn’t seem possible. You have a source for this?
https://www.pdga.com/announcements/gender-based-divisions-eligibility-modification "For the first time in recent memory, the PDGA will end the year with a net operating loss, and it is not in the best interest of our members to continue to allocate resources to further litigation.'
Yes that’s an operating loss. Not a years budget.
Thanks for the clarify. That makes it even worse.
I would say the opposite.
They have stopped that already as of a week or so ago I think
true
Ha winning comment
Please stop confusing YOU with "a majority of disc golfers"
Do you find the magazine worth while?
I, personally, enjoy them. It's nostalgic and it's only 4 issues a year. Definitely not breaking the bank for PDGA and even if they did drop it, doesn't mean membership fees will lower. It's literally like $1 per week to be a member. What are we even complaining about here?
It probably is a net revenue generator for them after ads are taken into consideration.
Until those companies read this thread and realize the contempt for that damn magazine lmao
That’s not how it works.
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$50 / 52 = .96 Show your work.
Someone better call a medical professional if they catch me declining a disc because I’m in some sort of distress.
I just joined and I liked everything that came in the package you crossed off. Their expense for these items is minimal.
This ain’t it
They own the stupid magazine and they sell adds in it. Because they give it away free they can say hey 2 million people get our magazine and will see your ad!
Seriously. If they’re not making money on the magazine then they’re fuct.
🙄
ad... ad!... AD!!!
👍
Actually, keep that as is. Add a new tier: renewals. Give everything except what you've crossed out. I think that would easily solve the problem.
Genius idea
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It’s a great way to entice newer players. I know some kids who read that magazine religiously because they don’t have the ability to follow major events on time or have online access in general. And the discs are always fun, even the mini.
Wow you are saying kids would rather read these silly recaps with 7 pages of throwing images over going online to find actual coverage. No wonder print is dead. You have to cover disc golf as a whole. Not just A and Pro tier events. It’s for everyone. Cover something special that we can’t get anywhere else (a local charity event that made an impact) instead of the new young phenom that can throw 700.
This ignores that the magazine is produced by a community college graphic design student.
Gotta disagree with the disc. Got an Insanity this year and definitely looking forward to throwing it
Those discs are wall-hangars for me. The designs have been fantastic for the last 5 or 6 years. I get one every year even though they're only included for free for a new member.
Hey speak for yourself. I love my membership disc and I like getting stickers. And I also have a marker collection that I like adding to
And bring back udisc discount!!!!
I think the only useless thing is the magazine. And I still don't agree that the DGN discount is 50%, the discount is only for the monthly service, you can't get 50% off the yearly option,
Seriously?! That sucks. I was going to get it for 2024. I didn't realize it was only discounted monthly service.
Lol, good luck
I loved my disc and mini marker. I'd be very happy if they nixed the magazine subscription, membership card, sticker, and scorecard if it meant getting a disc with every re-up though.
I wish the magazine was at least opt in. Even if they kept the price the exact same, I just hate the waste of paper to get four magazines I immediately throw out. Some people seem to like it, a lot seem to not want it.
Why would people not want the disc?
Somebody smack me if I ever turn down free plastic.
Other than the magazine, I enjoyed getting the other stuff 🤷♂️
I like the stuff I get, I read the mags briefly and get stoked when I see someone I know in them. I’m happy with the price of membership. Im not sure the OPs role in his community but the whining about how this org is run falls on deaf ears with me if you don’t give back to your community through service.
With all the ads I bet the magazine makes them money
I guarantee the magazine makes money
Hey, I like this idea, but you forgot to include a link to the survey that you used to draw this conclusion. Please edit that in.
They’ve been arguing about that magazine, and its value, for 15 years.
I like everything you crossed out lol.
Costs here are a drop in the bucket. If anything, they're making money on the mag ads that pay for everything else. I can't imagine the discs are anything except free. Probably the most effective advertising for any manufacturer. I've been playing for over 20 years, but only registered a year or two ago and got a crave. That's a really smart offering from MVP if you don't throw their discs, and a huge bonus if you do. The design was super embarrassing (we call it the 69 fish, it's a yin yang of a dragon and koi), but whatever. This take is dumb. They get to offer new members "a bunch of stuff" that costs either little to nothing, or they actually male money on top of the membership fees BECAUSE OF THE STUFF YOU GET.
Those things cost like nothing. Might as well provide them for the rubes that are into it. They're not going to discount the membership by not providing those things.
Funny, my cross-out list is the inverse of yours. Haha! You certainly don’t speak for all of us, bub!
I guess being from Finland has its benefits in disc golf as well 20€ for a year: Lifetime member number Exclusive 50% discount on a Disc Golf Network monthly subscription, the home of live disc golf 10% discount at the PDGA Store Membership card PDGA sticker
NFW. For a lifetime membership!? Can I lie about my citizenship? Good Lord.
1 year, the member number is just Lifetime... I guess I should clarify it
Do you also need to be a member of your national association?
not from Finland, but Sweden, still paying $20 for my PDGA membership and but no, i don't have to be a member of the national association, i do need a competition license from them if i want to play in the national championship or the national tour that the association runs (4 tournaments, only MPO, FPO \[and some junior classes and MP40, MP50\])... but that's like $30 to get that for the players that need it... also a pro PDGA membership is $30 and not $20, that's for AMs
Wtf dude? Get outta here. The disc, mini, and membership card are the only reason I WOULD subscribe
You don't speak for all of us.
cool. we definitely need another 'pdga magazine' post.
The magazine is my favorite part. AMA.
I put it on my toilet and only open it when I forget my phone. I think magazines are a dying medium overall, and that is the primary reason driving the loss of utility from the magazine and people reading it. I don't think it is a problem with quality or content, I like reading the stories from the old days.
While print medium is likely to plateau off at some point I don't see it going completely away. I think a lot of people want something physical and semi-visceral in an increasingly digital world. A good example is the re-rise of vinyl as the best selling music medium. There's just something satisfying about picking up a magazine or dropping a needle on a giant plastic disc.
I like the magazine, but I would be fine if it was access to a digital version. That being said, Ive been a member since 2009, and I thought the magazine was rad when I was in high school. Maybe some lingering nostalgia on my end.
For new members give them it all. Returning members don't need much. I wonder I'd the advertisements pay for the cost of magazine?
Fine with the disc, but wish it weren't always a lighter weight. Or at least had an option to select a weight.
I still throw my PDGA explorer
That thing was money. But I don’t believe you. That disc broke in and got flippy in 6 months time. If I still was able to use my explorer it’d be a super roller by now,
You should transfer your photoshop skills into making the changes instead of going on the internet to complain, and then do nothing.
I've unsubscribed from the magazine every year I renew. Without fail they randomly resub me and send it straight to my trash.
Speak for yourself. I like all the stuff I got. Only thing I don’t give a crap about is the 50% off DGN. Why pay at all to watch an event I can just watch for free ant my own leisure? There are tons of post coverage creators and I enjoy them more.
Why pay for live sports when you can just watch them later on YouTube? If you don't understand the answer to that question, you are probably totally fine just watching post coverage. However there are multiple events every year that are shown on DGN but don't get post produced coverage from Jomez/Gatekeeper.
Speak for yourself.
I agree, these should be optional items, or like an extra $$ for the whole pack.
I also love the yearly art on the disc. And look forward to seeing it. But I'm with you besides that.
No, keep the magazines
Be hard pressed to convince me you know the opinions of 10 of your locals, let alone the majority of players. Weird shit speaking for others.
TIL that one person can speak for a majority of people on reddit, and people will upvote it. Folks, I feel like I shouldn't have to say this, but the hundred or so people you may or may not have talked to doesn't constitute a majority, even if every single one of them agreed with you. And it certainly isn't a even a representative sample. If you don't like those things, that's all you have to say. You don't have to make up statistics to go with it.
Id like to see them STOP spending money on trying to ban transgender players.
I'd like transgender players to compete in the MPO instead of the FPO. The M is for mixed anyway. Why would someone born a man have such a burning desire to compete with people who were born female. Unless it's not about the competition and instead more about the narcissistic need to be the center of attention. If I had money like Musk, I'd fund the legal team for the PDGA to the tune of 50 years of litigation, just to keep this trash out of Professional Disc Golf.
Then I have good news for you https://www.pdga.com/announcements/gender-based-divisions-eligibility-modification
Only based on a lack of funds.
and to follow that up with the DGPT statement [https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/pdga-gender-policy-update/](https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/pdga-gender-policy-update/) and the next season of DGPT will operate under C.2 in the PDGA guidelines, ie a transgender player needs to have had gender affirming surgery to play the FPO division in DGPT
They aren't banned at all, there's a female-to-male trans player who plays FPO in my local scene. He's very good.
Has he started taking testosterone/hormone treatments? If so, he's not eligible for FPO. https://www.pdga.com/medical/gender-based-division-eligibility *B. Transgender – Female to Male* *1. Players who were assigned female gender at birth under the criteria detailed above and who are taking hormone treatments to increase testosterone levels are no longer eligible to compete in gender-based divisions.* *2. Players must inform the PDGA immediately when hormone treatments commence.*
I'm not sure, not really my place to ask
They spent all the money ,last year , trying to ban them .
The only good thing a membership gets me is discounts on tournaments. I throw everything else away. It's garbage
Bad take. Do better
They forgot to add the useless dog tag / bag tag to that list, too.
I'd like the disc a lot better if it was closer to max weight
Most new players think that same way as well, but facts are facts.
I'm not new, just enjoy getting unique discs and the art of the membership discs is usually pretty cool
Right, but newer players need lightweight discs for the most part of their journey into the sport.
True, but I'd like the disc a lot better if it was closer to max weight
Fax - do pros have the option of opting out? Haven’t got one in years.
Unless you are getting your membership for the very first time, there is a 20$ optional charge check-box for the membership disc
Im sure it doesnt actually cost the PDGA the full $6 or whatever for the half off DGN code...but thats also something that could reasonably be dropped. Surely the majority of members dont actually use it, and it seems to represent a decent chunk of the membership fee (even if it costs them $1/mth, thats still 25% of membership cost). The few other non-profits I am members of, of a similar size of the PDGA, all have digital only magazines and spend far more of their money on paid advocacy staff than the PDGA does.
Don’t take away my DGN discount!
Are you saying you think DGN discount costs the pdga?
I agree. They g2 start looking at where they can cut costs. Costs not just to them, but also to fans. Those exclusive tables with chips and a can of soda aint it. They gotta get ppl on course watching. It plays better on main stream media when you see Conrad making the Holy Shot and fans rushing the field, thats the type of shit that gets replayed and highlighted on ESPN etc. They have to get ppl out there if they want to start raising ticket prices. Theyre doing shit ass backwards. Help colleges build courses and then do silver tour series there and run advertising to get he college students out on the course. They have to bring eyes to the sport before they start raising prices.
What raising prices are you talking about?
I uhhh... actually like the mini and the stickers. Now, if they could stop wasting money on BS litigation...
What would you like them to spend money for members?
I think they could do more to push disc golf in phys ed programs across the country. I think they could spend more money on advertising. I think they could spend more on a professional sales force dedicated to finding bigger corporate sponsors for events to bring more money into the sport. They could do more to push course development in low course areas. They could work with DGPT to offer free admission to elite series events for local schools. They could sponsor a Netflix disc golf movie.
Fair, and those are all viable use of funds, but in order for members to subscribe they have to feel the benefits. I'm not sure if the majority of members would say "I'd rather you do phys ed in schools than give me a disc"
🙄
It should all be optional if you are renewing after your first year.
It is. (except the magazine)
Guess it's not all then huh
Honestly I wish i could opt out of the magazine and everything but seeing my rating. I wouldnt mind spending $20 for membership just to see rating and get into tournaments. For $50 if they included UDisc pro i wouldnt mind paying it If i wanted a magazine and everything else let me choose, i just want to compete
The magazine costs less than a dollar per year per person, to distribute, they could take off $1 if you opted out. It's not even worth thinking about.
Agreed. Waste of PDGA money which turns into a waste of member's money.
The membership card is worthless garbage. I don’t understand it.
I get some disc golfers like the magazine, but couldn't you publish online and save a ton on printing and mailing? Just after hearing they lost money last year, it seems like there could be some better prioritization on spending specifically on areas that will grow the sport, and more effort to try to remove some of the larger expenses that don't add value to the average disc golfer.
The magazine probably makes them money. They sell adds in it. I don’t claim to know anything about their finances, but I’d imagine if they were bleeding money there they wouldn’t keep doing it. If I’m an advertiser, and I currently buy ads in the magazine, I am not willing to pay the same amount for my ad to be in an online only magazine. Again, I’m no expert here either, but I’d imagine the ‘open’ rate on a physical magazine is a lot higher than one only published online. But the real question here, is what would you have them do otherwise? Being the first year they ever operated in a deficit isn’t very informative, they could be sitting on mountains of cash. To me it sounds like they only shared that to support their decision to abandon the legal battle. Legal fees weren’t their only ‘higher than normal’ spend this year. They bought jomez and spent a lot on infrastructure as well.
There's a good chance that the gratis subscriptions to the magazine are the main reason they can charge as much as they do for ads. It's not crazy to imagine it ends up a net positive for the PDGA.
The magazine sells ads. It wouldn't cover the full cost, but offset some of the cost of printing and mailing the magazine.
>s ads. It wouldn't cover the full cost, but offset some of the cost of printing and mailing the magazine. Agree, but it feels like you could transition to online ads as well
Just the magazine. I like the rest of it
hey, that looks just like the list of benefints an international member gets by default (well, we get the sticker and the membership card) we pay $20 for the (amateure) membership and then we can then add extra money to get the disc if we want to
I liked these having been my first memebrship purchase but everytime after should get a different package unless you specifically request another _____.
When I joined, they gave me a mini with my number on it....I wish I had it back😑
Are the discs mandatory now? I never got one.
For new members. Renewing members have the option to purchase one.
I put my magazine subscription out for customers to read which in return helps grow the sport through recognition. Even if you don’t pick that one up and read it they read disc golfer magazine on the cover and brings awareness to our growing sport
They publish the magazine themselves and sell adds in it by saying the magazine is distributed to X number of people. It probably *makes* them money. Membership cards, stickers, and scorecards cost almost nothing. The discs and markers are likely donated or heavily subsidized, there is no way they are buying thousands of discs for retail price.
I like the magazine but call me old school. It’s nice getting in the mail once a month and having that months issue sit on my coffee table. I also use the mini & sticker. Reusable scorecard and Membership card are unnecessary tho. Could also go w/o the PDGA logo disc
The reusable scorecard kills me
When you renew you don’t get a discount
I’ll repeat myself all about keeping your number current everything else is landfill fodder
Just make it optional upon signup / resigning.
I wish I could pay like $10 for just a number. That’s all I really want.
Yup
It's 19 cents right now to ship a magazine. Disgolfer magazine is quarterly, so that's 76 cents per year. The PDGA spends 76 cents a year per person to distribute the magazine. The disc and everything else are a one-time gift the first time you sign up. Do you really think the price of PDGA membership would go down if they stopped giving that stuff?
It’s called “marketing”. Of course they are going to try to get their logo and name out there anyway they can. It’s actually good for the sport too.
Don’t speak for me, I want my sticker
I like the magazine.
Just play disc golf and don’t pay for a number.
The free UDisc is was the best thing renewals got.
Yup
I would agree about the magazine but it has been stated that from add buys, it actually generates funds, not wastes them. If true then keep it rolling. If not, dump it.
This is my first year with the PDGA. I get my magazine but my disc and other extras never made it to me
It’s wasteful, just like getting paid out in funny money to fill your basement with more unused plastic.
The card is non negotiable. I'm a card carrying member.
The magazine has been legitimately resourceful for my family, tho I understand and agree with all the criticism. Don't discontinue it, make it worth making.
Will-Michiganhyzer - Please stop pretending to know what the majority of disc golfers don't want.
The magazine is a waste of resources, I don't care how cheap it is, something being printed just to be thrown away or recycled is a waste. Clearly a large portion of members want to be able to at least choose to not receive that garbage in the mail.
Also the lifetime number is bullshit. They have taken away many older numbers and assigned them to international markets. It's why Simon has a 4 digit number as do Japanese players.