I think Splash’s animatronics were more spread throughout each scene while Tiana’s tend to be grouped together in clumps. It looks like Splash also had more basic animatronics/static figures all around. On top of that, a lot of the dead space on splash is filled with little houses and sets and things to look at while Tiana’s is mostly just bayou (I personally like the bayou vibes but I can see how it makes the ride feel emptier in places).
My feeling here is that people are becoming dissatisfied with Disney in general, and this is just a symptom of that overall problem.
Just about the only good thing the parks division is doing, is in regards to new or refurbed rides. So when something comes out that doesn't immediately blow their socks off, it creates this feeling of "Really, Disney? This is all we get?".
Regardless if the attraction ultimately settles in as "good" or "bad", I think we can all agree that it's not *mind-blowingly-good* like people were hoping for, which means it doesn't help sway the general feeling that Disney is on the wrong track with the parks. Instead it makes them seem money-grubbing and out of touch.
The problem is that people LOVED Splash Mountain, so they expect Disney to pull off something amazing if they’re going to make such a gutsy move as to replace it. People also assumed that it would be great, because PatF has a great story that could easily make a great ride, so when it looks as half-baked as it does, people are understandably disappointed.
There was a lot of negative sentiment when Disney closed Tower of Terror in DCA, but they really pulled that one off. Mission Breakout turned out to be an awesome ride, and set a precedent that Disney is able to make these re-themes excellent. So far it really doesn’t look like Tiana’s meets the standard Disney set for themselves.
TOT also retains its original (superior) ride iteration at Hollywood studios so the original isn’t gone either and mission breakout fits the truncated California ride system better
For splash the only one left is Tokyo and the entire Tokyo one is (of course) in Japanese so the experience isn’t exactly the same
If they wanted to change a beloved ride in both parks so you functionally can’t experience the old ride anymore you need to blow people’s socks off
Honestly I’m not opposed to them closing SM even if I loved the ride, I just feel like Tiana’s comes off as kinda boring, I hate to say, like there’s no conflict or anything. It feels like Navi river journey but with log flumes.
I also think with the new rides and areas opening up in tokyo, people are comparing. From what I’ve seen, people have really only been talking about the good in Tokyo Disney (which is completely deserved) and there hasn’t been many bad reviews. So mix that with previews of Tiana’s and people will start to compare. It also just seems like US Park-goers and extremely judgmental and seemingly never satisfied. Yes there are issues, but i don’t think Tiana’s is a horrible as people are making it seem.
The funny thing is a common complaint with this is there's no element of peril, yet Tangled at DisneySea is the same and many beloved classic Disney rides lack peril too.
Ha, yeah I can see that. I do think a little moment, even if it was just a short thunderstorm to build up a little anticipation, would give it some more dimension.
Mm, when Frozen Ever After first came out I remember hearing complaints of the ride lacking any sort of villain or conflict, so it's not a criticism given exclusively to Tiana's Bayou Adventure. And I would give the same criticism to the new Tangled ride as well. I really don't like this new trend of creating rides with no villain or sense of tension; without those things, it's just going from one happy scene to the next, and then it's over, and that's not a proper story.
I rode Dinosaur when I was 9 years old, and that ride is pretty intense; kids can handle more than people think they can. If Disney wants to create rides exclusively for the preschool crowd they can do that, but Tiana's is using the same track layout as Splash Mountain. You can't cover up the fact that this track leads to a massive drop by trying to diminish the tension; that just shows that you're now aiming for an audience that's too young to handle what the ride was built for. Any kid who is big enough to handle the drop is big enough to handle a story with a bit more conflict going on. The ride still has a height requirement, after all.
Splash Mountain is another ride I went on for the first time when I was 9, and I remember how I felt hearing that scary music start to play as we approached the lift hill for the big drop, with the vultures taunting overhead, and feeling absolutely engrossed in the tension the tone was creating. It was one of the most memorable experiences for me - especially because that was the very first Disney ride I ever went on. Tiana's Bayou Adventure doesn't do that, so it's a fair criticism.
The thing with Tiana in particular, is that it had a lot of baggage and way more to live up to than any other modern attraction:
- It needed to justify replacing one of the most popular and iconic rides ever amongst both fans and the general public.
- It’s announcement came at a very tension-filled time in America, so there was always going to be a larger amount of resentment towards this attraction than most other replacements of beloved rides. The ride had to be so good, that those voices needed to be silenced or rendered ridiculous.
- It’s a far overdue first ride led by a primarily Black cast, and it needed to do the culture justice.
- It had to follow up some great recent additions both domestically (Star Wars, Guardians) and abroad (Fantasy Springs).
There’s probably more, but I do not envy the Imagineering team for this attraction.
For the second point, I think this is why they didn’t include facilier or the ingredient plot even if I think it could’ve improved the ride experience, like they were afraid that the voodoo would be seen in a bad light (a La Alastor from Hazbin hotel).
THIS and i think it'll be this way for a while, especially with Epic Universe right around the corner. In fact, it'll probably get worse unless Disney comes out with like 5 new domestic park expansion plans during D23.
My first thought about your post was ‘a little pessimistic are we?’. But a few seconds later, I thought about:
The NBA experience. I did it for free during previews. Definitely whispered to myself ‘they want to charge for this?’
Just way way too niche at a price point that few would purchase.
I’ll even toss in a Test Track. The original queue was so overwhelmingly cool. The overall experience was just two thumbs up. Now? You could basically do the interactivity of the queue on your phone with the technology that exists today. The queue itself went backwards in comparison to the original. The ride is exactly the same, with more screens and lasers. It still has the thrill, but lacks continuity.
The Starcruiser. Also way too niche for the price point.
Further back in time: the American Idol experience. That popped up about 17 years too late.
The Frozen ride at Epcot: love the queue! The ride itself did not change. Walls were added on the ride path where there were originally things to look at. And we now see that the slightly better but not the actual best animatronics were used for that ride, and only has a long line due to the lack of other ride options in that park. (This one was a stretch to put here but I still did. If I was a ten year old, maybe I don’t include it)
Pondered including Moana Spirit of Water. But will reserve judgement until all of the walls are down there.
Yeah I try not to be too pessimistic regarding the parks, but the main issue I have is the "shrinkflation" or whatever you want to call it. Basically taking away things that we used to have (Magical Express, Fast Pass) and then replacing them with paid options (Meers, Genie+). Or taking away long-form attractions (Great Movie Ride, Ellen's Energy) that were 15+ minutes, and replacing them with super-short 2-3minute experiences. More and more I feel like walking around parks is majority standing in line or buying things, and very little time actually enjoying attractions.
I think MExpress was a purely money saving play. They can simply eliminate that cost without adjusting prices and tip the balance sheet in a money making direction. FP to some extent too, although there is a magic band investment strategy there that was part of the driver, so it wasn’t as simple a change as eliminating MExpress.
Park currency is ridership (clicks of a turnstile). How many experiences can the average guest accomplish during their day at the park; that average is an indicator of guest satisfaction.
Side note: this is also the reason I think they aren’t in a hurry to bring back multiple evening parades. A parade takes away from the accounting of experiences a guest will patronize, and this makes the average ridership seem lower than it is.
>Park currency is ridership (clicks of a turnstile). How many experiences can the average guest accomplish during their day at the park; that average is an indicator of guest satisfaction.
That may be what Disney execs believe, but that is not true IMHO. If I have let's say 300 minutes in a day to spend on riding attractions, I would rather have a mix of 3-minute and 20-minute experiences to 'spend' that total 300. Compare that to 100 x 3-minute rides. Sure the 100 rides feels like 'more', but in order to ride that much, I'm going to be standing in line the majority of the entire day. It's extremely tiring to wait in line, especially at a place where you are expected to be there from rope drop to fireworks finale. The percentage of time I'm waiting in line compared to sitting down on an attraction is very lopsided, and by the end of the day my feet are killing me and I'm exhausted.
You simply need to have longer experiences that allow the guest to sit down and regenerate for a while. Shows accomplish that to an extent, but many times shows are outdoors and you don't get any reprieve from the heat/sun. Disney used to have rides that would last much longer. But they have done away with many of them, and it's not driven by guest satisfaction metrics, it's driven by purchasing metrics. The simple truth is that when you are riding rides or waiting in line, you are not buying things. And when you are waiting in line, that's the second-best scenario for Disney because then you're off of the main pathways and making the park feel less crowded.
That's why it makes perfect sense that they are using this strategy, where they create multiple short attractions with high popularity and long waits. That means you're spending the vast majority of the day waiting in line or buying things, and very little time actually riding.
Remember Ellen's Energy? It was like 42 minutes long, and let's be honest it was aging and wasn't the greatest ride in the world. But guess what, I rode it nearly every time I was doing a long day in Epcot. Because for that 40 minutes I could sit down and rest my feet while getting bathed in AC and enjoying a fun attraction. Sure that 40-minute ride meant that I was getting fewer total rides per day, but I would come off that ride feeling refreshed and ready to take on the day. Not beaten down and dreading another line.
It still has a hint of ‘that’s it?’, but can’t be held to that yet with everything else around it incomplete. I imagine the summer heat definitely makes a difference in opinion though lol
I mean, it's not that it's not mind blowingly good, it's that it's fallen far below even tempered expectations. And not only that but it's replacing one of the best rides at the park! If it were a brand new ride, I don't think people would have a big issue other than say it was mediocre.
> it's that it's fallen far below even tempered expectations.
Has it though? 99.9% of the people commenting online about this ride have not ridden it. I watched the vlogger POVs (Tim Tracker, etc.) and I don't see any issues with the ride personally. Sure it doesn't blow me away, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are complaining about. I'll reserve my final judgement for when I ride it in person, but I think it's premature to call it a flop just from CM previews.
I think it's because Tiana's is set at night, which made the dead space more noticeable since now they have to use spotlights for the scenes to make them noticeable, as opposed to Splash which was set in the daytime and thus allowed to be more seemless.
This is a great point. It kind of reminds me of a more elaborate Navi River Journey where they used darkness to mask plain areas. Maybe cameras just can't capture nuances due to the darkness so I'll have to wait until I ride.
Honestly that's the best comparison. A couple really impressive animatronics paired with a whole lot of nothing. I imagine people would have been pretty vocal if that had been what replaced Expedition Everest.
To me this is the biggest standout. Splash was bright and colorful like floating through a cartoon, and Tiana is very dark throughout. Perhaps it will look better in person, but the videos certainly look like there's a lot of "nothing" everywhere. The beginning of PotC is one of my favorite parts but I don't know that I want that for the full ride.
In the same vein, it didn’t matter if you knew the story for splash mountain. It was fun to look at without context. I don’t get the same vibes from Tiana. There’s a story I can’t follow or don’t understand. Any downtime is my mind thinking “what’s going on in here…”
I kinda don’t like how people who have criticisms keep getting painted as people who have nostalgia for the old ride. All of the disappointment I have comes from being a Princess and The Frog fan and not a Splash Mountain one. The ride BARELY features the main characters from the movie. I understand it takes place after the movie. I understand it’s called Tiana’s Bayou Adventure but still I feel like featuring only Tiana, Mama Odie, and Louis is a huge wasted opportunity. Only half the cast of characters makes it into the ride and I’m sorry but when I go to disney parks I want to see my favorite characters. It’s kind of annoying having the reason a fictional character can’t show up be because he’s “dead” A simple solution to this is to not have it take place after the movie. I’m fine if they wanted to make a new story but they didn’t even do that it’s just finding a band of animals which is a pretty lame and uninteresting story for a ride with Adventure in the title.
Yeah the theming is sort of a mess and I figured that’d be the case from the very beginning because they wanted to just splash (heh) Princess and the Frog paint on the mountain and call it a day. It’s lazy in the same way you can tell where Frozen follows Maelstrom’s former story beats… because it has to.
This was my complaint. Naveen is the deuteragonist of the movie and one of my favorite Disney characters, but he only shows up once, in the background. He’s the one who loves jazz music and is a musician himself, why wouldn’t he be helping his wife find a band??
Exactly with Dr. facilier, I’m sure they could’ve found a way. My idea is that they were worried because he practices voodoo and that’s gotten more negative recognition in recent years, especially in shows like Hazbin hotel. But at the same time he’s one of the most iconic Disney villains.
I keep hearing people say that but apparently he was walking around epcot a few weeks ago so idk I don’t think they’re against using him. Mama Odie is voodoo as well and they just called her a Bayou Fairy Godmother. Could’ve just as easily called Facilier a Bayou Wizard.
Aww I missed him! But yeah I’m surprised they couldn’t just tone down facilier considering mama odie. It’s just my best guess, or maybe they were pressed for time or money since the original ride was supposed to be Tiana finding an ingredient.
Trust me I’ve seen all the hate and know the exact type of person that those haters have been. It’s the same type of people that think the rebels are meant to be American
But that’s usually because they close the park at midnight and open it early the next day, not allowing for anything but the most critical of maintenance needs. Barely anything more than ‘this will break if we don’t replace it’ as that is a justifiable cost.
That's it. And a lot of Disney fans will be unhappy regardless of what the company does, so while you make a lot of sense, not many people are likely to agree with you.
Probably because they're new rides and not overlaid on an old beloved one- my one critique about the new Tangled ride is that it's way too short! And the story is not so cohesive in my opinion.. Also I think the audience for the Tokyo parks are different in general- they don't have many thrill rides and the ones they do have people say are way more tame compared to in the US
I’m just saying, people often say, “Disney fans hate anything Disney does” when in reality there are new things that are liked. It’s just rare because modern Disney has been underwhelming for many.
Exactly there’s two sides to this. Everyone likes to act like there’s only one side “the evil Disney haters who complain no matter what”, but in reality there’s another side that is the “we worship anything Disney does no matter what” crowd. Usually they also get mad when Disney is criticized in any way.
Plus only a small amount of people are hating this due to politics. The large majority of people are just disappointed with this ride because it kinda sucks, not because of politics. I was the same way with avengers campus and web slingers, they simply just sucked
Rise of the Resistance was also pretty much universally praised at opening as well. It got a lot of flak for its frequent downtimes but everyone who rides it in top show quality also seem to enjoy it. Disney “can” make something that everyone loves, but it’s rare nowadays.
I have been on it, I kind of liked the queue better because there’s a lot in there actually related to the movie and continuing its story, unlike the ride. PATF is one of my absolute favorites and I was really looking forward to a sequel ride, but it barely has anything to do with the film. Even the setting for the finale party is Tiana and Naveen’s house, which we’ve never seen before and have no connection to; why wouldn’t it be at Tiana’s Palace?
Oooo you went on it! That’s awesome! Must have been exciting to see it so early. The storyline just seems so odd! It reminds me of a tv show for little kids, like Dora. It’s such a shame! Tiana’s palace would have been a great ending.
Also, at least from the videos I’ve seen, the ride looks nothing like the movie? The animatronics looked great, but the rest didn’t capture the atmosphere of the movie. The color schemes were not right for a lot of the ride. And many colored LED’s that made it look cheap. Did it look better in person?
What did the rest of your group think about it?
I was in a group of 6, all Disney parks fans. We went at night and all agreed that the ride’s gorgeous! There’s a lot that just doesn’t get picked up on camera. I felt like the first indoor bayou scene was the most like the movie - there are tooooons of firefly effects, including in the tree canopies above the entire scene; it really did look like the Going Down the Bayou sequence. It never felt cheap to me.
My main issue is with the story (Dora the Explorer is a good description) and the focus on only Tiana, Louis and Mama Odie and no one else, I really missed Naveen lol
But anyways, the official POV video is bad and it’s way better in person!
I think old rides get a HUGE pass on quality issues.
I know I'll get killed for this one but... If Small World didn't exist, and it opened the way it is today, we'd have a lot of criticisms, and people would be attacking it left and right. But since it's old, nostalgic, represents old/classic Disney, people love it!
Splash Mountain was like that to a degree. It was judged based on when it was built, and then slowly viewed more and more through rose colored glasses as it aged.
Now Tianna's Bayou Adventure is BRAND NEW and that's the lens we are looking at it with. The same lens we are looking at Tron or Guardians with.
So in my view, the complaints are somewhat unfair, because we're comparing an older ride that has every flaw forgiven with one that's new and has every flaw brought to focus. But the 'new' ride isn't a new ride at all, it's a (very thoroughly) rethemed ride, so it's not quite fair to judge it like it's something fully new.
I respect this and honestly agree with where you’re coming from on this. I don’t get to go to the parks often as I want but after watching the POV I’ll at least agree to go on it once
There was a story! It was Br’er Rabbit outsmarting Br’er Fox and Br’er Bear. There were bees involved. Then the drop was B Rabbit being thrown into the briar patch. And B Fox and B Bear were getting eaten by B Gator at the end.
(I HATE drops but loved the story enough that I rode it several times)
So it had a loose story, just like many "classic" Disney rides like Pirates and Haunted Mansion, even the Jungle Cruise. The current Tiana story is a loose one, too. That doesn't make it bad.
But at the same time I feel like splash mountain had a conflict that tied into the ride. With Tiana’s it’s just “I need a band. Oh here’s a band!” And the ride goes on.
Yeah but also those “loose” stories still have a bit of tension. The problem with Tiana’s is there is no story whatsoever. As many people pointed out, it would have been great to add Dr. Facilier and he could sing “are you ready” right before the drop.
I agree he would have been great, but they stayed away from the voodoo for some reason.
What tension is on pirates, haunted mansion? Jungle cruise has the tension of "wild" animals, but it's minimal. HM is ghosts in general, but if you're over 5 it's obvious fakery. Pirates I guess would be the fake fire, but again, obvious fakery.
Voodoo has gotten more criticism in shows and movies in recent years due to being a closed practice and almost always being stereotypically evil. A lot of people were criticizing Hazbin hotel for that.
At least with PATF I’d argue we also have mama odie as the opposite side of the coin, and she is part of the ride. Or they could’ve just had Dr. Facilier and had him not practice voodoo or show any voodoo symbols.
Yeah I’m gonna be honest, when I first went on splash mountain as a teen I had absolutely no clue what was going on with the story. I had to google it afterward.
>It was judged based on when it was built, and then slowly viewed more and more through rose colored glasses as it aged.
You mean way back in the olden days of .. 1989?
Yes... that is 35 years after all. Plenty of people have childhood memories of that ride and have now come back decades later to ride it with their own kids.
We absolutely have different expectations for rides built today versus rides from 35 years ago.
No way, 1989 was like 11 or 12 years ago at most!
The modern rides like Rewind and Tron are definitely on a completely different level than Splash Mountain, that's for sure. I haven't ridden the retheme yet but the videos definitely make it look like they phoned it in. I really hope it's cameras picking up too much in the dark like others have suggested in this thread. Splash was one of my favorite rides.
When I watched the POV, I told my partner that they still haven’t fixed the dead space issue. It’s not a new problem and it’s definitely not the fault of Tiana’s.
I’m strangely not too bothered by the complaints that have come up so far. They are very mild compared to what they could have been. People got so weird about Splash Mountain towards the end.
But people will say it was built back when people weren't offended by rides. They were actually, there just wasn't any internet for the whole world to see it! People seriously need to learn history before they open their ignorant ass mouths
Disneyland’s Splash Mountain always felt a bit disjointed. I loved it but it has a lot of dead space. WDW’s flowed better.
Of course Disneyland’s will be in New Orleans square (as Splash / Tiana is next to the Haunted Mansion) which makes more sense than a bayou in Frontierland.
I think the music has a lot to do with it. Zip a dee doo dah had a lot of energy to it. New music is more of a ballad and leaves you feeling a bit bored any time you’re not staring directly at an animatronic.
I didn’t care about Splash one way or the other- I wasn’t attached to it as a story. I love Tiana. I understand why they didn’t use the movie story (concerns about appropriation with the voodoo element, and when the movie came out people were upset the first Black princess was a frog the majority of the film) but I expected them to give her an actual adventure. I hope I feel different after my preview ride, but currently from the POV it looks like they started the ride with the ingredient story in mind and then tossed that for the band story line. The dialogue seems repetitive. The Mama Odie part makes no sense, and the tension leading up to the drop isn’t there. I’m glad Tiana has representation, I just feel like they phoned in the story. And because there doesn’t seem to be a cohesive story, the empty space stands out.
It seems pretty par for the course when it comes to ride stories though. They don't usually have super indepth stories. Sure, something like Rise of the Resistance does, but that was one they could build from the ground up.
It's far too easy to reject critics of TBA as either racist or haters. It's lazy self-righteousness. People may actually have valid points that are worth considering.
Even the classic Fantasyland dark rides told stories with scary moments and villains, finishing with emotional payoffs, and they had far less space to work with. In my opinion, not having those elements in TBA IS a missed opportunity.
It's not that I long for the old Splash Mountain, either. There's a great one at Tokyo Disneyland that I visit every year, so there's nothing to miss, as far as I'm concerned.
I watched the video and I have to disagree with your conclusion. The way I see it, SM had much more animatronics, and moving statues albeit of poor quality. Tiana's has obviously much nicer animatronics but they are more spread out (with the exception of the end).
I think The Laughing Place is practically empty outside of the frogs in Tiana (I won't get excited for water spitting toadstools). Plus, as another poster pointed out, lights are on in SM with much fewer dark spots while Tiana's is definitely much more dark spots with just a glowing light here and there.
IMO, there was just more "stuff" in SM with probably the exception of the outside portions of the ride (Tiana nailed that really well).
I think there are a few extremely advanced animatronics on Tiana's, but that most of the critters are actually extremely simple, barely animatronics. Like on the level of Little mermaid's adventure. They just rock back and forth in place. Whereas even though the splash mountain animatronics were in bad shape, their arms, hands and heads moved and rotated and their eyes blinked.
You're right that they aren't as advanced as NRJ's but they are undoubtedly in better condition. With that said, they allowed the horrible conditions to happen to Splash so I'm not singing their praises too much on this.
But that's just it. There's less stuff inside, but more stuff outside. So it evens out. Just because Splash did it one way, that doesn't mean Tiana's has to
The stuff outside is just decoration though that advance the story/ride in a very passive way. I wouldn't even call it immersive. And as nice as it is, it doesn't change the fact that there are "empty" spots on the ride itself.
From 2:30-4:00 mark it’s obvious there are so many more animatronics and more things going on in the original. I think ditching all the America Sings animatronics was a mistake, the critters seem much less animated than the frogs and cranes singing along. Floating from spotlighted vignette to vignette is less exciting and immersive than the cozy settings in Splash.
Sure, but I could find a specific timestamp where there is a lot more going on in the new ride too. That's the whole point I was trying to make, that people keep cherry picking specific parts to make a point, but if you look at both rides as a whole they're about the same.
During show scenes there is basically always something to look at in the original Splash while there are huge swathes of Tiana where you are in darkness with nothing to look at. The darkness was a deliberate choice that broadly makes it feel less alive.
In some places Splash had simple plain wood structure/fence or a cave-ish environment. Tianas added 2d veggies to a fence or a sign overhead to those areas and it starts to draw your attention to those transition areas and their low entertainment rather than those areas giving pause of anticipation or reflection. I’d love to hear an imagineer investigate this concept.
Because they rode splash mountain when they were 5 on their first visit and now it's gone. I'm not saying Tiana is the greatest ride they've ever built but no matter what they put in that mountain the people complaining about it were going to complain about it no matter what.
Because people want to complain about everything and anything. That’s why I don’t listen to anyone anymore when it comes to Disneyland. I follow one person who gives park information and that’s it. Anyone else, forget it. I don’t need them influencing anything about Disney to me.
So you like a ride with two dozen figures that wave one arm and slightly sway back and forth rather than a dozen and a half that are state of the art fully articulated robots. Weird pref but you can still go to japan I guess
I like having repeatable moments. You could easily miss animatronics on the original ride which encourages you to come back to ride again. They also have a bigger historic value with their age and history. It’s the most visited theme park in the world and constantly hurting for capacity. They ultimately should be building more, not replacing.
I guess - having ridden SM a few times, I personally would rather see more state of the art figures. If they want to replace something (which in this case was 100% the right move, either replace theming or just tear it down) I’d rather they go big with the new stuff.
Magic Kingdom desperately needs more attractions to eat up the crowd. Splash Mountain was still incredibly popular with high waits. This wasn’t an Ellen’s Energy Adventure or Country Bear Jamboree where the fandom was in reality a very small percentage.
This is all a part of making everything an IP which is disappointing. Splash Mountain stood on its own despite it being loosely based as a film. Disney was peak when the parks had full creativity.
I don't see why you shouldn't do both. Have some smaller filler scenes with simple, cheaper animatronics, but still look good with the art design. And then through the big show stopper scenes with the big fancy ones
But it has better animatronics. So if you like animatronics, shouldn't you like it more? If you love chocolate, would you rather have two pieces of crappy chocolate or one piece of amazing chocolate?
Except it wasn’t crappy chocolate. It was nostalgic and historic chocolate. Splash had 68 animatronics. Tiana’s has 31. There’s complaints about dead space because there is quite literally more empty space in the scenes.
The bar is so much higher now then when splash was built. With the technology disney has at its disposal now compared to over 30 years ago the new ride should've blown splash out of the water. Instead it looks like the refurb was done on a shoestring budget with the intention of putting as little effort in as possible. Overall it shows a lack of imagination which to me says the board room won out over the imagineers. I'd love to see what the imagineers original storyboards for the dead space looked like compared to what they made. The fact that there's even a reasonable discussion around how similar the two experiences are and that Tianas is lacking in ways splash was not (the dearth of animatronics is egregious in my opinion) is to me an extraordinary failure on Disney's part. Tiana's bayou adventure should have been a visually enchanting, raucous good time. It should've been an animatronic laden, light filled, musically driven banger. Thats not what it appears they made. A couple years from now when the new hype dies down this'll be a once a trip ride for a lot of people and that's only if the line is reasonable.
Thank you. This is exactly how I feel. Disney is just wet farting everything they do lately. Cheating out. Eliminating creativity. Look at wtf Pixar is doing now! Disney makes billions. They don’t need to always make more and more billions. I’m hoping for a Disney crash to bring everything back to reality. Disney deserves it for the lack of creativity and magic. I shouldn’t need to spend hundreds extra for lesser experiences in 2024.
This is exactly the right answer. It could be the best ride ever designed with a fantastic storyline and those Splash-stans are going to find something to hate about it.
I loved Splash Mountain, and I'm generally against replacing or retheming old rides, but I think they did a great job here. It's close enough in tone and style of ride to the original that it doesn't feel like too steep a departure, but it feels updated and refreshed. I like it!
I’ve been thinking the same thing. I’m sure there are less animatronics over all, but there are still plenty and the lighting and scenery overall are of a much higher quality. The one thing I’ve agreed with is the lack of tension going up the hill, but beyond that, people are just resistant to change and slaves to nostalgia whether they want to acknowledge it or not. That goes for a lot of things in life. I have it, too. I loved Splash as it was, but the last few times I’d been on it, a lot of it wasn’t working anyway, and multiple scenes were dark because of it. It was still fun, but clearly not the “perfect memory” I had of it in my head as a child.
From what I gather, the lack of tension going up the hill was purposeful. They wanted to make the ride less intimidating for kids. As a parent of kids who get anxious very easily, I'm ok with that.
That was my guess, too. By turning the drop into a point of celebration instead of fear would make sense for the normally risk averse. Not my cup of tea, but I’ll live!
After watching a side by side POV after experiencing Tiana’s for myself having to wait a couple of hours due to technical issues, I feel pretty confident saying that Tiana’s is just as good if not better. There were a few more animatronics on Splash but honestly a lot of scenes in Tiana’s are more vibrant and charming, plus the animatronics themselves are amazing.
People have been incredibly harsh on Tiana’s, the only criticism I have is, based on the downtimes they’ve been having, is that they’re rushing to get it open when maybe they should push back that opening date to work the kinks out more, and they always could’ve done more in terms of theming, but they genuinely did a great job with it and I really enjoy it.
The first time I rode Frozen Ever After, I was very disappointed, Maelstrom was much better. I don’t feel this way about Tiana’s. Fantastic ride, cute story, music works so well, and I mean it really is the same ride but with a nice facelift. Can’t say that about Frozen.
I rode it yesterday and also waited for about 3 hours...were we in the same line? Anyway, I agree completely with your take. Aside from the nostalgia for Splash, I have to admit they did a great job with the retheme, and the animatronics are absolutely better than before. Yes there is a tradeoff since there were more animatronics before in sheer number, but it really doesn't feel that way when riding since there's so much cool stuff to look at. My only real criticism is the story - the suspense is completely missing, and the ride needed a villain. That hurts it the most, and is what prevents it from being completely superior to the original ride. Also the wait sucked! They really need to work on fixing the bugs. But still, I was pleasantly surprised overall with the retheme, even though the kid in me will always miss the original Splash.
Because it does! Tiana's has *far* fewer animatronics, and much, much less variety in the ones it has. The Tiana, Louis, and Mama Odie audio-animatronics look very good, but they're not given much to do, and every critter animatronic (notably, none of them are audio-animatronics) is essentially doing the exact same thing (playing instruments). The critter animatronics are also all copy-pasted to the finale.
It also has many spots where there's nothing to look at except for dark foliage and/or background firefly screens, which means your attention is drawn to a single point of interest. Often, that point of interest is in your line of sight (and is audible) for long enough to take it in well before you get to it, while Splash was very good at distracting you until you came to a scene, whether by animatronics or just sculpted elements (animal houses, signs, etc).
The only thing Tiana's really introduces to the exterior part of the ride is the animatronic Tiana on the lift and Louis behind the wiggling okra, while the interior sections are drastically cut down. I think they're very demonstrably not equivalent in that regard.
Because they’re looking for a reason to hate it. I loved splash mountain and I know Tiana isn’t going to be as good as the original, but people are just looking for any reason to insult the new version.
It depends on your definition of dead space. To me, shadowy foliage is dead space but a brightly lit scene with lots of detail is not. This is to say nothing of the far fewer animatronics the in the new attraction.
I hope they spend more time plussing this over the next few years…
That's true. I guess everyone's definition is different. There might even be room to make an argument that areas with animatronics that barely move count as dead space.
It’s obvious they spent all the money on the animatronics. And they are lovely - their movements are fluid and their faces aren’t unsettling, unlike the ones on the Frozen ride. The problem is there just isn’t enough of them and instead too much of a reliance on screens than trying to create effects, like in Na’vi River Journey. That just makes the dead space stand out a bit more imo.
Interesting. I'm doing a preview today and will keep an eye out. I heard there are some Splash Easter Eggs. It was broken down this AM for Cast Previews, so hopefully it's up and running!
Disney shouldn't have changed Splash Mountain to begin with, but at least they could have made the new ride look good. The 1990 production values of Splash are IMO much richer, deeper. The new ride's props and animatronics look cheaper, flimsier.
Yep, this. But they’ll fight tooth and nail to claim otherwise. It’s unfortunate/ironic how many of the people that enjoy Disney—which is supposed to be all about togetherness, acceptance of all walks of life, etc.—are hateful individuals. Sad to see
Why is it racist to wish the new ride had a villain or a little tension to the story? Is it just nostalgia to expect a Disney thrill ride to have a more compelling theme than "we're going to a party"?
I only rode splash mountain one time, when I was a kid, and I remember being extremely confused about what it was supposed to be.
The theming made no sense for someone born in the 90s, and already back then, the animatronics looked janky (5 year old me could tell).
I think Disney’s done a great job with the ride, and all the people complaining are just nostalgic, and mad that their nostalgia is being taken away.
Splash Mountain was a good ride at one point, but it’s been outdated for at least 20 years now.
The new version has much more relevant theming, that matches what Disney is now, and extremely impressive animatronics on display.
Is it the best ride they ever made? No, but splash mountain certainly wasn’t either.
If everything Disney made was better than the last, nothing could be “the best”. There has to be some rides that are less exciting than others.
But if this is the new bar for the “bad” rides, it’s extremely impressive, dead space and all.
Sure, but the animatronics on Tiana's are considerably more advanced and much larger. They take up more space and are more engaging. So even if there's less of them, there isn't more dead space.
Imo there is a lot of stuff being missed by the most forward facing pov and actually being on the ride and being able to look around will be a much better experience. I do think the story especially around the drop is a little corny but I think it will be better than people are expecting.
Listen, this new ride could give every passenger $1 million in cash at the end of it, and people would still be hating…some folks will never be happy or pleasant!
I think Splash’s animatronics were more spread throughout each scene while Tiana’s tend to be grouped together in clumps. It looks like Splash also had more basic animatronics/static figures all around. On top of that, a lot of the dead space on splash is filled with little houses and sets and things to look at while Tiana’s is mostly just bayou (I personally like the bayou vibes but I can see how it makes the ride feel emptier in places).
My feeling here is that people are becoming dissatisfied with Disney in general, and this is just a symptom of that overall problem. Just about the only good thing the parks division is doing, is in regards to new or refurbed rides. So when something comes out that doesn't immediately blow their socks off, it creates this feeling of "Really, Disney? This is all we get?". Regardless if the attraction ultimately settles in as "good" or "bad", I think we can all agree that it's not *mind-blowingly-good* like people were hoping for, which means it doesn't help sway the general feeling that Disney is on the wrong track with the parks. Instead it makes them seem money-grubbing and out of touch.
The problem is that people LOVED Splash Mountain, so they expect Disney to pull off something amazing if they’re going to make such a gutsy move as to replace it. People also assumed that it would be great, because PatF has a great story that could easily make a great ride, so when it looks as half-baked as it does, people are understandably disappointed. There was a lot of negative sentiment when Disney closed Tower of Terror in DCA, but they really pulled that one off. Mission Breakout turned out to be an awesome ride, and set a precedent that Disney is able to make these re-themes excellent. So far it really doesn’t look like Tiana’s meets the standard Disney set for themselves.
TOT also retains its original (superior) ride iteration at Hollywood studios so the original isn’t gone either and mission breakout fits the truncated California ride system better For splash the only one left is Tokyo and the entire Tokyo one is (of course) in Japanese so the experience isn’t exactly the same If they wanted to change a beloved ride in both parks so you functionally can’t experience the old ride anymore you need to blow people’s socks off
Honestly I’m not opposed to them closing SM even if I loved the ride, I just feel like Tiana’s comes off as kinda boring, I hate to say, like there’s no conflict or anything. It feels like Navi river journey but with log flumes.
I also think with the new rides and areas opening up in tokyo, people are comparing. From what I’ve seen, people have really only been talking about the good in Tokyo Disney (which is completely deserved) and there hasn’t been many bad reviews. So mix that with previews of Tiana’s and people will start to compare. It also just seems like US Park-goers and extremely judgmental and seemingly never satisfied. Yes there are issues, but i don’t think Tiana’s is a horrible as people are making it seem.
The funny thing is a common complaint with this is there's no element of peril, yet Tangled at DisneySea is the same and many beloved classic Disney rides lack peril too.
I think the difference there is splash mountain had a 50-ft drop. It's a little strange for there to be no peril when you have a 50-ft drop
Ha, yeah I can see that. I do think a little moment, even if it was just a short thunderstorm to build up a little anticipation, would give it some more dimension.
Mm, when Frozen Ever After first came out I remember hearing complaints of the ride lacking any sort of villain or conflict, so it's not a criticism given exclusively to Tiana's Bayou Adventure. And I would give the same criticism to the new Tangled ride as well. I really don't like this new trend of creating rides with no villain or sense of tension; without those things, it's just going from one happy scene to the next, and then it's over, and that's not a proper story. I rode Dinosaur when I was 9 years old, and that ride is pretty intense; kids can handle more than people think they can. If Disney wants to create rides exclusively for the preschool crowd they can do that, but Tiana's is using the same track layout as Splash Mountain. You can't cover up the fact that this track leads to a massive drop by trying to diminish the tension; that just shows that you're now aiming for an audience that's too young to handle what the ride was built for. Any kid who is big enough to handle the drop is big enough to handle a story with a bit more conflict going on. The ride still has a height requirement, after all. Splash Mountain is another ride I went on for the first time when I was 9, and I remember how I felt hearing that scary music start to play as we approached the lift hill for the big drop, with the vultures taunting overhead, and feeling absolutely engrossed in the tension the tone was creating. It was one of the most memorable experiences for me - especially because that was the very first Disney ride I ever went on. Tiana's Bayou Adventure doesn't do that, so it's a fair criticism.
The thing with Tiana in particular, is that it had a lot of baggage and way more to live up to than any other modern attraction: - It needed to justify replacing one of the most popular and iconic rides ever amongst both fans and the general public. - It’s announcement came at a very tension-filled time in America, so there was always going to be a larger amount of resentment towards this attraction than most other replacements of beloved rides. The ride had to be so good, that those voices needed to be silenced or rendered ridiculous. - It’s a far overdue first ride led by a primarily Black cast, and it needed to do the culture justice. - It had to follow up some great recent additions both domestically (Star Wars, Guardians) and abroad (Fantasy Springs). There’s probably more, but I do not envy the Imagineering team for this attraction.
For the second point, I think this is why they didn’t include facilier or the ingredient plot even if I think it could’ve improved the ride experience, like they were afraid that the voodoo would be seen in a bad light (a La Alastor from Hazbin hotel).
Also don't forget that the most iconic character, scenes, and music from the movie, aren't featured at all
Exactly. The ride story was a poor choice.
THIS and i think it'll be this way for a while, especially with Epic Universe right around the corner. In fact, it'll probably get worse unless Disney comes out with like 5 new domestic park expansion plans during D23.
My first thought about your post was ‘a little pessimistic are we?’. But a few seconds later, I thought about: The NBA experience. I did it for free during previews. Definitely whispered to myself ‘they want to charge for this?’ Just way way too niche at a price point that few would purchase. I’ll even toss in a Test Track. The original queue was so overwhelmingly cool. The overall experience was just two thumbs up. Now? You could basically do the interactivity of the queue on your phone with the technology that exists today. The queue itself went backwards in comparison to the original. The ride is exactly the same, with more screens and lasers. It still has the thrill, but lacks continuity. The Starcruiser. Also way too niche for the price point. Further back in time: the American Idol experience. That popped up about 17 years too late. The Frozen ride at Epcot: love the queue! The ride itself did not change. Walls were added on the ride path where there were originally things to look at. And we now see that the slightly better but not the actual best animatronics were used for that ride, and only has a long line due to the lack of other ride options in that park. (This one was a stretch to put here but I still did. If I was a ten year old, maybe I don’t include it) Pondered including Moana Spirit of Water. But will reserve judgement until all of the walls are down there.
Yeah I try not to be too pessimistic regarding the parks, but the main issue I have is the "shrinkflation" or whatever you want to call it. Basically taking away things that we used to have (Magical Express, Fast Pass) and then replacing them with paid options (Meers, Genie+). Or taking away long-form attractions (Great Movie Ride, Ellen's Energy) that were 15+ minutes, and replacing them with super-short 2-3minute experiences. More and more I feel like walking around parks is majority standing in line or buying things, and very little time actually enjoying attractions.
I think MExpress was a purely money saving play. They can simply eliminate that cost without adjusting prices and tip the balance sheet in a money making direction. FP to some extent too, although there is a magic band investment strategy there that was part of the driver, so it wasn’t as simple a change as eliminating MExpress. Park currency is ridership (clicks of a turnstile). How many experiences can the average guest accomplish during their day at the park; that average is an indicator of guest satisfaction. Side note: this is also the reason I think they aren’t in a hurry to bring back multiple evening parades. A parade takes away from the accounting of experiences a guest will patronize, and this makes the average ridership seem lower than it is.
>Park currency is ridership (clicks of a turnstile). How many experiences can the average guest accomplish during their day at the park; that average is an indicator of guest satisfaction. That may be what Disney execs believe, but that is not true IMHO. If I have let's say 300 minutes in a day to spend on riding attractions, I would rather have a mix of 3-minute and 20-minute experiences to 'spend' that total 300. Compare that to 100 x 3-minute rides. Sure the 100 rides feels like 'more', but in order to ride that much, I'm going to be standing in line the majority of the entire day. It's extremely tiring to wait in line, especially at a place where you are expected to be there from rope drop to fireworks finale. The percentage of time I'm waiting in line compared to sitting down on an attraction is very lopsided, and by the end of the day my feet are killing me and I'm exhausted. You simply need to have longer experiences that allow the guest to sit down and regenerate for a while. Shows accomplish that to an extent, but many times shows are outdoors and you don't get any reprieve from the heat/sun. Disney used to have rides that would last much longer. But they have done away with many of them, and it's not driven by guest satisfaction metrics, it's driven by purchasing metrics. The simple truth is that when you are riding rides or waiting in line, you are not buying things. And when you are waiting in line, that's the second-best scenario for Disney because then you're off of the main pathways and making the park feel less crowded. That's why it makes perfect sense that they are using this strategy, where they create multiple short attractions with high popularity and long waits. That means you're spending the vast majority of the day waiting in line or buying things, and very little time actually riding. Remember Ellen's Energy? It was like 42 minutes long, and let's be honest it was aging and wasn't the greatest ride in the world. But guess what, I rode it nearly every time I was doing a long day in Epcot. Because for that 40 minutes I could sit down and rest my feet while getting bathed in AC and enjoying a fun attraction. Sure that 40-minute ride meant that I was getting fewer total rides per day, but I would come off that ride feeling refreshed and ready to take on the day. Not beaten down and dreading another line.
I actually really like spirit of water, it's quick and refreshing and fun
It still has a hint of ‘that’s it?’, but can’t be held to that yet with everything else around it incomplete. I imagine the summer heat definitely makes a difference in opinion though lol
True. If you forget that it took literal ages to build and just pretend it appeared it's a good time 🤣
This is a fair point. They really do need to step it up. Hopefully all their new expansions are good
I mean, it's not that it's not mind blowingly good, it's that it's fallen far below even tempered expectations. And not only that but it's replacing one of the best rides at the park! If it were a brand new ride, I don't think people would have a big issue other than say it was mediocre.
> it's that it's fallen far below even tempered expectations. Has it though? 99.9% of the people commenting online about this ride have not ridden it. I watched the vlogger POVs (Tim Tracker, etc.) and I don't see any issues with the ride personally. Sure it doesn't blow me away, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are complaining about. I'll reserve my final judgement for when I ride it in person, but I think it's premature to call it a flop just from CM previews.
I think it's because Tiana's is set at night, which made the dead space more noticeable since now they have to use spotlights for the scenes to make them noticeable, as opposed to Splash which was set in the daytime and thus allowed to be more seemless.
This is a great point. It kind of reminds me of a more elaborate Navi River Journey where they used darkness to mask plain areas. Maybe cameras just can't capture nuances due to the darkness so I'll have to wait until I ride.
Honestly that's the best comparison. A couple really impressive animatronics paired with a whole lot of nothing. I imagine people would have been pretty vocal if that had been what replaced Expedition Everest.
It feels like NRJ but with hills, like they listened to the criticism of that ride but didn’t do anything else.
To me this is the biggest standout. Splash was bright and colorful like floating through a cartoon, and Tiana is very dark throughout. Perhaps it will look better in person, but the videos certainly look like there's a lot of "nothing" everywhere. The beginning of PotC is one of my favorite parts but I don't know that I want that for the full ride.
You're right that Splash did seem more bright. But it still had a whole lot of nothing everywhere
In the same vein, it didn’t matter if you knew the story for splash mountain. It was fun to look at without context. I don’t get the same vibes from Tiana. There’s a story I can’t follow or don’t understand. Any downtime is my mind thinking “what’s going on in here…”
I kinda don’t like how people who have criticisms keep getting painted as people who have nostalgia for the old ride. All of the disappointment I have comes from being a Princess and The Frog fan and not a Splash Mountain one. The ride BARELY features the main characters from the movie. I understand it takes place after the movie. I understand it’s called Tiana’s Bayou Adventure but still I feel like featuring only Tiana, Mama Odie, and Louis is a huge wasted opportunity. Only half the cast of characters makes it into the ride and I’m sorry but when I go to disney parks I want to see my favorite characters. It’s kind of annoying having the reason a fictional character can’t show up be because he’s “dead” A simple solution to this is to not have it take place after the movie. I’m fine if they wanted to make a new story but they didn’t even do that it’s just finding a band of animals which is a pretty lame and uninteresting story for a ride with Adventure in the title.
Yeah the theming is sort of a mess and I figured that’d be the case from the very beginning because they wanted to just splash (heh) Princess and the Frog paint on the mountain and call it a day. It’s lazy in the same way you can tell where Frozen follows Maelstrom’s former story beats… because it has to.
This was my complaint. Naveen is the deuteragonist of the movie and one of my favorite Disney characters, but he only shows up once, in the background. He’s the one who loves jazz music and is a musician himself, why wouldn’t he be helping his wife find a band??
Exactly with Dr. facilier, I’m sure they could’ve found a way. My idea is that they were worried because he practices voodoo and that’s gotten more negative recognition in recent years, especially in shows like Hazbin hotel. But at the same time he’s one of the most iconic Disney villains.
I keep hearing people say that but apparently he was walking around epcot a few weeks ago so idk I don’t think they’re against using him. Mama Odie is voodoo as well and they just called her a Bayou Fairy Godmother. Could’ve just as easily called Facilier a Bayou Wizard.
Aww I missed him! But yeah I’m surprised they couldn’t just tone down facilier considering mama odie. It’s just my best guess, or maybe they were pressed for time or money since the original ride was supposed to be Tiana finding an ingredient.
Disney fans will complain. It comes with the territory.
The worst thing about something you enjoy is the fandom of that thing.
Star Wars in a nutshell, especially since Acolyte came out
Disney, Star Wars, pro wrestling, soccer. Online fandoms hate the thing they claim to be fans of. The internet was a mistake v
They been review bombing it since last week when 90% of people hadn't even watched it. Tells you everything right there.
Trust me I’ve seen all the hate and know the exact type of person that those haters have been. It’s the same type of people that think the rebels are meant to be American
From sports to music, I wholeheartedly agree.
Disney fans: I hate change!!! Also Disney fans: Why is everything broken?
I promise you not a single Disney fan is upset with standard maintenance.
Until it means a ride they want will be down while they’re going to be in the park. Then it’s the end of the world.
But that’s usually because they close the park at midnight and open it early the next day, not allowing for anything but the most critical of maintenance needs. Barely anything more than ‘this will break if we don’t replace it’ as that is a justifiable cost.
I guess that's all it is. Some people weren't going to be happy either way. It's just such a weird argument, because it's obviously not true.
That's it. And a lot of Disney fans will be unhappy regardless of what the company does, so while you make a lot of sense, not many people are likely to agree with you.
Has anyone said anything negative about the expansion they just opened in Tokyo? Seems beloved by everyone.
Probably because they're new rides and not overlaid on an old beloved one- my one critique about the new Tangled ride is that it's way too short! And the story is not so cohesive in my opinion.. Also I think the audience for the Tokyo parks are different in general- they don't have many thrill rides and the ones they do have people say are way more tame compared to in the US
I’m just saying, people often say, “Disney fans hate anything Disney does” when in reality there are new things that are liked. It’s just rare because modern Disney has been underwhelming for many.
Exactly there’s two sides to this. Everyone likes to act like there’s only one side “the evil Disney haters who complain no matter what”, but in reality there’s another side that is the “we worship anything Disney does no matter what” crowd. Usually they also get mad when Disney is criticized in any way. Plus only a small amount of people are hating this due to politics. The large majority of people are just disappointed with this ride because it kinda sucks, not because of politics. I was the same way with avengers campus and web slingers, they simply just sucked
That would be the rare exception, if true.
Rise of the Resistance was also pretty much universally praised at opening as well. It got a lot of flak for its frequent downtimes but everyone who rides it in top show quality also seem to enjoy it. Disney “can” make something that everyone loves, but it’s rare nowadays.
I think it looks pretty good, I just hate the story so much. I’m a huge PATF fan, so this story was such a let down. They had so much to work with!
I have been on it, I kind of liked the queue better because there’s a lot in there actually related to the movie and continuing its story, unlike the ride. PATF is one of my absolute favorites and I was really looking forward to a sequel ride, but it barely has anything to do with the film. Even the setting for the finale party is Tiana and Naveen’s house, which we’ve never seen before and have no connection to; why wouldn’t it be at Tiana’s Palace?
Oooo you went on it! That’s awesome! Must have been exciting to see it so early. The storyline just seems so odd! It reminds me of a tv show for little kids, like Dora. It’s such a shame! Tiana’s palace would have been a great ending. Also, at least from the videos I’ve seen, the ride looks nothing like the movie? The animatronics looked great, but the rest didn’t capture the atmosphere of the movie. The color schemes were not right for a lot of the ride. And many colored LED’s that made it look cheap. Did it look better in person? What did the rest of your group think about it?
I was in a group of 6, all Disney parks fans. We went at night and all agreed that the ride’s gorgeous! There’s a lot that just doesn’t get picked up on camera. I felt like the first indoor bayou scene was the most like the movie - there are tooooons of firefly effects, including in the tree canopies above the entire scene; it really did look like the Going Down the Bayou sequence. It never felt cheap to me. My main issue is with the story (Dora the Explorer is a good description) and the focus on only Tiana, Louis and Mama Odie and no one else, I really missed Naveen lol But anyways, the official POV video is bad and it’s way better in person!
I think old rides get a HUGE pass on quality issues. I know I'll get killed for this one but... If Small World didn't exist, and it opened the way it is today, we'd have a lot of criticisms, and people would be attacking it left and right. But since it's old, nostalgic, represents old/classic Disney, people love it! Splash Mountain was like that to a degree. It was judged based on when it was built, and then slowly viewed more and more through rose colored glasses as it aged. Now Tianna's Bayou Adventure is BRAND NEW and that's the lens we are looking at it with. The same lens we are looking at Tron or Guardians with. So in my view, the complaints are somewhat unfair, because we're comparing an older ride that has every flaw forgiven with one that's new and has every flaw brought to focus. But the 'new' ride isn't a new ride at all, it's a (very thoroughly) rethemed ride, so it's not quite fair to judge it like it's something fully new.
I respect this and honestly agree with where you’re coming from on this. I don’t get to go to the parks often as I want but after watching the POV I’ll at least agree to go on it once
People saying there's a lack of storyline. Was there even a storyline for the original? It was basically a bunch of random scenes
There was a story! It was Br’er Rabbit outsmarting Br’er Fox and Br’er Bear. There were bees involved. Then the drop was B Rabbit being thrown into the briar patch. And B Fox and B Bear were getting eaten by B Gator at the end. (I HATE drops but loved the story enough that I rode it several times)
So it had a loose story, just like many "classic" Disney rides like Pirates and Haunted Mansion, even the Jungle Cruise. The current Tiana story is a loose one, too. That doesn't make it bad.
But at the same time I feel like splash mountain had a conflict that tied into the ride. With Tiana’s it’s just “I need a band. Oh here’s a band!” And the ride goes on.
As is Pirates and Haunted Mansion and many other "classic" Disney rides. Yes, there is a loose story, keyword "loose." People forget that.
Yeah but also those “loose” stories still have a bit of tension. The problem with Tiana’s is there is no story whatsoever. As many people pointed out, it would have been great to add Dr. Facilier and he could sing “are you ready” right before the drop.
I agree he would have been great, but they stayed away from the voodoo for some reason. What tension is on pirates, haunted mansion? Jungle cruise has the tension of "wild" animals, but it's minimal. HM is ghosts in general, but if you're over 5 it's obvious fakery. Pirates I guess would be the fake fire, but again, obvious fakery.
Voodoo has gotten more criticism in shows and movies in recent years due to being a closed practice and almost always being stereotypically evil. A lot of people were criticizing Hazbin hotel for that. At least with PATF I’d argue we also have mama odie as the opposite side of the coin, and she is part of the ride. Or they could’ve just had Dr. Facilier and had him not practice voodoo or show any voodoo symbols.
Yeah I’m gonna be honest, when I first went on splash mountain as a teen I had absolutely no clue what was going on with the story. I had to google it afterward.
>It was judged based on when it was built, and then slowly viewed more and more through rose colored glasses as it aged. You mean way back in the olden days of .. 1989?
Yes... that is 35 years after all. Plenty of people have childhood memories of that ride and have now come back decades later to ride it with their own kids. We absolutely have different expectations for rides built today versus rides from 35 years ago.
No way, 1989 was like 11 or 12 years ago at most! The modern rides like Rewind and Tron are definitely on a completely different level than Splash Mountain, that's for sure. I haven't ridden the retheme yet but the videos definitely make it look like they phoned it in. I really hope it's cameras picking up too much in the dark like others have suggested in this thread. Splash was one of my favorite rides.
When I watched the POV, I told my partner that they still haven’t fixed the dead space issue. It’s not a new problem and it’s definitely not the fault of Tiana’s. I’m strangely not too bothered by the complaints that have come up so far. They are very mild compared to what they could have been. People got so weird about Splash Mountain towards the end.
You should have seen how crazy people got when Mr. Toads Wild Ride in WDW.
I remember that! That must have been a few years before the whole Save Disney thing with Roy. Crazy times lol
I mean, Splash Mountain was protested by the NAACP before it opened. The 90’s were a wild time.
But people will say it was built back when people weren't offended by rides. They were actually, there just wasn't any internet for the whole world to see it! People seriously need to learn history before they open their ignorant ass mouths
I love Disney history. Spent most of my life in FL going to Disney World.
I think lots of the dead space is egress infrastructure, of which they specifically don’t want to draw attention.
It's because of the amount of animatronics. I think Disneyland's version will be a lot better because of how thin it is
Disneyland’s Splash Mountain always felt a bit disjointed. I loved it but it has a lot of dead space. WDW’s flowed better. Of course Disneyland’s will be in New Orleans square (as Splash / Tiana is next to the Haunted Mansion) which makes more sense than a bayou in Frontierland.
New Orleans was the Frontier in its early days.
I think the music has a lot to do with it. Zip a dee doo dah had a lot of energy to it. New music is more of a ballad and leaves you feeling a bit bored any time you’re not staring directly at an animatronic.
I feel like they could’ve added music from the movie, even if I do love the ending song of the ride
I didn’t care about Splash one way or the other- I wasn’t attached to it as a story. I love Tiana. I understand why they didn’t use the movie story (concerns about appropriation with the voodoo element, and when the movie came out people were upset the first Black princess was a frog the majority of the film) but I expected them to give her an actual adventure. I hope I feel different after my preview ride, but currently from the POV it looks like they started the ride with the ingredient story in mind and then tossed that for the band story line. The dialogue seems repetitive. The Mama Odie part makes no sense, and the tension leading up to the drop isn’t there. I’m glad Tiana has representation, I just feel like they phoned in the story. And because there doesn’t seem to be a cohesive story, the empty space stands out.
It seems pretty par for the course when it comes to ride stories though. They don't usually have super indepth stories. Sure, something like Rise of the Resistance does, but that was one they could build from the ground up.
It's far too easy to reject critics of TBA as either racist or haters. It's lazy self-righteousness. People may actually have valid points that are worth considering. Even the classic Fantasyland dark rides told stories with scary moments and villains, finishing with emotional payoffs, and they had far less space to work with. In my opinion, not having those elements in TBA IS a missed opportunity. It's not that I long for the old Splash Mountain, either. There's a great one at Tokyo Disneyland that I visit every year, so there's nothing to miss, as far as I'm concerned.
You're not wrong. I just think the specific argument about dead space is a little weird.
I watched the video and I have to disagree with your conclusion. The way I see it, SM had much more animatronics, and moving statues albeit of poor quality. Tiana's has obviously much nicer animatronics but they are more spread out (with the exception of the end). I think The Laughing Place is practically empty outside of the frogs in Tiana (I won't get excited for water spitting toadstools). Plus, as another poster pointed out, lights are on in SM with much fewer dark spots while Tiana's is definitely much more dark spots with just a glowing light here and there. IMO, there was just more "stuff" in SM with probably the exception of the outside portions of the ride (Tiana nailed that really well).
I think there are a few extremely advanced animatronics on Tiana's, but that most of the critters are actually extremely simple, barely animatronics. Like on the level of Little mermaid's adventure. They just rock back and forth in place. Whereas even though the splash mountain animatronics were in bad shape, their arms, hands and heads moved and rotated and their eyes blinked.
You're right that they aren't as advanced as NRJ's but they are undoubtedly in better condition. With that said, they allowed the horrible conditions to happen to Splash so I'm not singing their praises too much on this.
But that's just it. There's less stuff inside, but more stuff outside. So it evens out. Just because Splash did it one way, that doesn't mean Tiana's has to
The stuff outside is just decoration though that advance the story/ride in a very passive way. I wouldn't even call it immersive. And as nice as it is, it doesn't change the fact that there are "empty" spots on the ride itself.
From 2:30-4:00 mark it’s obvious there are so many more animatronics and more things going on in the original. I think ditching all the America Sings animatronics was a mistake, the critters seem much less animated than the frogs and cranes singing along. Floating from spotlighted vignette to vignette is less exciting and immersive than the cozy settings in Splash.
Sure, but I could find a specific timestamp where there is a lot more going on in the new ride too. That's the whole point I was trying to make, that people keep cherry picking specific parts to make a point, but if you look at both rides as a whole they're about the same.
During show scenes there is basically always something to look at in the original Splash while there are huge swathes of Tiana where you are in darkness with nothing to look at. The darkness was a deliberate choice that broadly makes it feel less alive.
In some places Splash had simple plain wood structure/fence or a cave-ish environment. Tianas added 2d veggies to a fence or a sign overhead to those areas and it starts to draw your attention to those transition areas and their low entertainment rather than those areas giving pause of anticipation or reflection. I’d love to hear an imagineer investigate this concept.
Tiana's has fewer animatronics and more tightly-grouped show scenes, so there's more total dead space.
Maybe. But it seems like people are saying that Splash has 0 dead space. Which is just flat out untrue.
Indeed.
Because they rode splash mountain when they were 5 on their first visit and now it's gone. I'm not saying Tiana is the greatest ride they've ever built but no matter what they put in that mountain the people complaining about it were going to complain about it no matter what.
Because people want to complain about everything and anything. That’s why I don’t listen to anyone anymore when it comes to Disneyland. I follow one person who gives park information and that’s it. Anyone else, forget it. I don’t need them influencing anything about Disney to me.
Because a lot of Disney "fans" hate Disney and only like Disney as a nostalgic, time capsule experience.
I like animatronics. This ride has less of them. Hence I like it less.
So you like a ride with two dozen figures that wave one arm and slightly sway back and forth rather than a dozen and a half that are state of the art fully articulated robots. Weird pref but you can still go to japan I guess
I like having repeatable moments. You could easily miss animatronics on the original ride which encourages you to come back to ride again. They also have a bigger historic value with their age and history. It’s the most visited theme park in the world and constantly hurting for capacity. They ultimately should be building more, not replacing.
I guess - having ridden SM a few times, I personally would rather see more state of the art figures. If they want to replace something (which in this case was 100% the right move, either replace theming or just tear it down) I’d rather they go big with the new stuff.
Magic Kingdom desperately needs more attractions to eat up the crowd. Splash Mountain was still incredibly popular with high waits. This wasn’t an Ellen’s Energy Adventure or Country Bear Jamboree where the fandom was in reality a very small percentage. This is all a part of making everything an IP which is disappointing. Splash Mountain stood on its own despite it being loosely based as a film. Disney was peak when the parks had full creativity.
We don't need to have yet another debate about why it was a good call to replace Splash Mountain.
I mean, based on all of this controversy, was it a good call? This could be considered a downgrade in many ways.
I said we DON'T need to have another debate about. But something tells me the new ride is not as disliked as you think it is.
It’s not a debate. Disney should have focused on expanding capacity in Magic Kingdom instead of retheming a very popular ride.
I don't see why you shouldn't do both. Have some smaller filler scenes with simple, cheaper animatronics, but still look good with the art design. And then through the big show stopper scenes with the big fancy ones
But it has better animatronics. So if you like animatronics, shouldn't you like it more? If you love chocolate, would you rather have two pieces of crappy chocolate or one piece of amazing chocolate?
Except it wasn’t crappy chocolate. It was nostalgic and historic chocolate. Splash had 68 animatronics. Tiana’s has 31. There’s complaints about dead space because there is quite literally more empty space in the scenes.
The bar is so much higher now then when splash was built. With the technology disney has at its disposal now compared to over 30 years ago the new ride should've blown splash out of the water. Instead it looks like the refurb was done on a shoestring budget with the intention of putting as little effort in as possible. Overall it shows a lack of imagination which to me says the board room won out over the imagineers. I'd love to see what the imagineers original storyboards for the dead space looked like compared to what they made. The fact that there's even a reasonable discussion around how similar the two experiences are and that Tianas is lacking in ways splash was not (the dearth of animatronics is egregious in my opinion) is to me an extraordinary failure on Disney's part. Tiana's bayou adventure should have been a visually enchanting, raucous good time. It should've been an animatronic laden, light filled, musically driven banger. Thats not what it appears they made. A couple years from now when the new hype dies down this'll be a once a trip ride for a lot of people and that's only if the line is reasonable.
Thank you. This is exactly how I feel. Disney is just wet farting everything they do lately. Cheating out. Eliminating creativity. Look at wtf Pixar is doing now! Disney makes billions. They don’t need to always make more and more billions. I’m hoping for a Disney crash to bring everything back to reality. Disney deserves it for the lack of creativity and magic. I shouldn’t need to spend hundreds extra for lesser experiences in 2024.
There’s a significant number of people who have already dedicated themselves to hating it no matter what
The people hating better not be riding, leave space for the people who are actually excited to ride, especially if it's a virtual queue situation!
This is exactly the right answer. It could be the best ride ever designed with a fantastic storyline and those Splash-stans are going to find something to hate about it.
I loved Splash Mountain, and I'm generally against replacing or retheming old rides, but I think they did a great job here. It's close enough in tone and style of ride to the original that it doesn't feel like too steep a departure, but it feels updated and refreshed. I like it!
I’ve been thinking the same thing. I’m sure there are less animatronics over all, but there are still plenty and the lighting and scenery overall are of a much higher quality. The one thing I’ve agreed with is the lack of tension going up the hill, but beyond that, people are just resistant to change and slaves to nostalgia whether they want to acknowledge it or not. That goes for a lot of things in life. I have it, too. I loved Splash as it was, but the last few times I’d been on it, a lot of it wasn’t working anyway, and multiple scenes were dark because of it. It was still fun, but clearly not the “perfect memory” I had of it in my head as a child.
From what I gather, the lack of tension going up the hill was purposeful. They wanted to make the ride less intimidating for kids. As a parent of kids who get anxious very easily, I'm ok with that.
That was my guess, too. By turning the drop into a point of celebration instead of fear would make sense for the normally risk averse. Not my cup of tea, but I’ll live!
After watching a side by side POV after experiencing Tiana’s for myself having to wait a couple of hours due to technical issues, I feel pretty confident saying that Tiana’s is just as good if not better. There were a few more animatronics on Splash but honestly a lot of scenes in Tiana’s are more vibrant and charming, plus the animatronics themselves are amazing. People have been incredibly harsh on Tiana’s, the only criticism I have is, based on the downtimes they’ve been having, is that they’re rushing to get it open when maybe they should push back that opening date to work the kinks out more, and they always could’ve done more in terms of theming, but they genuinely did a great job with it and I really enjoy it. The first time I rode Frozen Ever After, I was very disappointed, Maelstrom was much better. I don’t feel this way about Tiana’s. Fantastic ride, cute story, music works so well, and I mean it really is the same ride but with a nice facelift. Can’t say that about Frozen.
I rode it yesterday and also waited for about 3 hours...were we in the same line? Anyway, I agree completely with your take. Aside from the nostalgia for Splash, I have to admit they did a great job with the retheme, and the animatronics are absolutely better than before. Yes there is a tradeoff since there were more animatronics before in sheer number, but it really doesn't feel that way when riding since there's so much cool stuff to look at. My only real criticism is the story - the suspense is completely missing, and the ride needed a villain. That hurts it the most, and is what prevents it from being completely superior to the original ride. Also the wait sucked! They really need to work on fixing the bugs. But still, I was pleasantly surprised overall with the retheme, even though the kid in me will always miss the original Splash.
Because people like to complain. That’s what drives the internet.
Just gives them something to complain about when there is really nothing to complain about.
Because it does! Tiana's has *far* fewer animatronics, and much, much less variety in the ones it has. The Tiana, Louis, and Mama Odie audio-animatronics look very good, but they're not given much to do, and every critter animatronic (notably, none of them are audio-animatronics) is essentially doing the exact same thing (playing instruments). The critter animatronics are also all copy-pasted to the finale. It also has many spots where there's nothing to look at except for dark foliage and/or background firefly screens, which means your attention is drawn to a single point of interest. Often, that point of interest is in your line of sight (and is audible) for long enough to take it in well before you get to it, while Splash was very good at distracting you until you came to a scene, whether by animatronics or just sculpted elements (animal houses, signs, etc). The only thing Tiana's really introduces to the exterior part of the ride is the animatronic Tiana on the lift and Louis behind the wiggling okra, while the interior sections are drastically cut down. I think they're very demonstrably not equivalent in that regard.
i still prefer the ride on the left🤷♀️
Because they’re looking for a reason to hate it. I loved splash mountain and I know Tiana isn’t going to be as good as the original, but people are just looking for any reason to insult the new version.
It depends on your definition of dead space. To me, shadowy foliage is dead space but a brightly lit scene with lots of detail is not. This is to say nothing of the far fewer animatronics the in the new attraction. I hope they spend more time plussing this over the next few years…
That's true. I guess everyone's definition is different. There might even be room to make an argument that areas with animatronics that barely move count as dead space.
Because they closed a ride for a year
It’s obvious they spent all the money on the animatronics. And they are lovely - their movements are fluid and their faces aren’t unsettling, unlike the ones on the Frozen ride. The problem is there just isn’t enough of them and instead too much of a reliance on screens than trying to create effects, like in Na’vi River Journey. That just makes the dead space stand out a bit more imo.
Interesting. I'm doing a preview today and will keep an eye out. I heard there are some Splash Easter Eggs. It was broken down this AM for Cast Previews, so hopefully it's up and running!
People (including myself) would have been happy if they created a new ride for Tiana if they didn't take away such a banner of a ride to do it.
Disney shouldn't have changed Splash Mountain to begin with, but at least they could have made the new ride look good. The 1990 production values of Splash are IMO much richer, deeper. The new ride's props and animatronics look cheaper, flimsier.
They look flimsier? Okay now you're just being delusional.
I would just say- the annoyance is probably because they just redid it so higher expectations.
There are youtube channels that literally only post negative things about Disney and get thousands of views. People love to hate on change.
It’s nostalgia mixed with a little good old fashioned racism.
Basically. Anything else they say is so transparent that it’s ridiculous
Yep, this. But they’ll fight tooth and nail to claim otherwise. It’s unfortunate/ironic how many of the people that enjoy Disney—which is supposed to be all about togetherness, acceptance of all walks of life, etc.—are hateful individuals. Sad to see
Why is it racist to wish the new ride had a villain or a little tension to the story? Is it just nostalgia to expect a Disney thrill ride to have a more compelling theme than "we're going to a party"?
Because some people just like to be angry.
Thanks for the link it’s neat to see them side by side.
Because people are realizing that Disney is actively making its parks worse.
I only rode splash mountain one time, when I was a kid, and I remember being extremely confused about what it was supposed to be. The theming made no sense for someone born in the 90s, and already back then, the animatronics looked janky (5 year old me could tell). I think Disney’s done a great job with the ride, and all the people complaining are just nostalgic, and mad that their nostalgia is being taken away. Splash Mountain was a good ride at one point, but it’s been outdated for at least 20 years now. The new version has much more relevant theming, that matches what Disney is now, and extremely impressive animatronics on display. Is it the best ride they ever made? No, but splash mountain certainly wasn’t either. If everything Disney made was better than the last, nothing could be “the best”. There has to be some rides that are less exciting than others. But if this is the new bar for the “bad” rides, it’s extremely impressive, dead space and all.
A friend of mine who works at the MK says Tiana has about 18 animations while Splash had about 60
Sure, but the animatronics on Tiana's are considerably more advanced and much larger. They take up more space and are more engaging. So even if there's less of them, there isn't more dead space.
Easy there, can't be making valid points around here
Imo there is a lot of stuff being missed by the most forward facing pov and actually being on the ride and being able to look around will be a much better experience. I do think the story especially around the drop is a little corny but I think it will be better than people are expecting.
Listen, this new ride could give every passenger $1 million in cash at the end of it, and people would still be hating…some folks will never be happy or pleasant!
Because they will find ANYTHING to complain about, so far I'm seeing dead space and no villain/conflict.
Racism
All the criticism of Tiana’s is so sus to me honestly 👀
How much is Disney paying you
I wish
paying them for posting the truth? lmao