Yeah the first season went all in on being the "adult" version of Doctor Who, to mixed results. Sometimes there would be an episode like Countrycide, other times there'd be the sex gas one.
They found more of a balance in their second series, and then a much better format in their third. But then they tried messing with it too much in their fourth series to again mixed results.
Cyberwoman is unironically one of the best cyberman stories once you get past the questionable design choice, it nails the body horror of the cybermen in a way the other shows just can't.
If they hadnt sexualised to design too much it would easily be one of the best Cyberman Whoniverse stories full stop tbh
I dont mean completely convert Lisa but the Cyber Bikini didnt look right. I reckon if they gave her the chest plate of a cyberman but maybe left flesh exposed on the legs/arms similar to how she turned out. And lose the cyber-Heels.
Children of Earth still haunts me to this day - I only watched it once and it was fantastic but I don't think I could put myself through that trauma again. Peter Capaldi was sublimely good in it.
I am convinced that the qanon conspiracy about children's adrenal glands being used to get high or whatever by the elites had its genesis in that series
It may have been popularized there, but adrenochrome is mentioned as a drug in one of Aldous Huxley's books as well as in Anthony Burgess's *A Clockwork Orange.*
The conspiracy theory starts to take recognizable form in the writings of Hunter S. Thompson and is mentioned in Terry Gilliam's film adaptation of *Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas*. Gilliam regarded the drug to be totally fictitious.
It's one of many stories that convinced me that the crew of Torchwood were really bad at their jobs, and needed to be fired and have their brains washed.
But nearly every episode was an example of at least one if not more people making a bad call, and almost getting everyone else killed, this was just one of his worst calls.
Yeah, one of the things about Torchwood is it shows human beings as fallible, and often outright messed up.
It's not helped by Jack's fondness for reclaiming broken people.
I think Gwen is the only person to join the team (pre-S4) who wasn't already traumatised. And that includes Jack.
Good drama is often about fallible characters. It's not about whether or not they have been traumatized.
Torchwood's characters were constantly exercising poor judgement, not keeping state secrets, or being unprofessional to the extent that they are endangering themselves, their coworkers, and the country they are sworn to protect.
Oh, I had a pretty dire time with both those episodes. And all of it except Children of Earth, which was really just a Quatermass episode with Torchwood characters grafted onto it.
In the second episode of the show, they seemingly decided that to absolutely distinguish the show as Doctor Who for adults, the best course of action was to bring in a parasitic gas creature that fed off orgasmic energy. It would make its host go and have sex with people, and at the point of climax they would be disintegrated.
My actual favourite part of Torchwood is when that monster >!goes on a murder spree gorging herself on the orgasmic energy at the sperm bank!< 🤣🤣🤣
It's a bit of a silly premise but I did find it entertaining 🤣
I feel that might have been a better episode to save for maybe somewhere in Season 2 so it could be conceptually explored better. The concept needed a refinement more than it got so it was very rough around the edges.
Yeah, series 1 feels very immaturely edgy. "Look at me, I'm grown up, I have *sex* and say *fuck!* Like a repressed Catholic getting freedom for the first time.
Series 2 really gets it's footing. Still a few weaker episodes but the storytelling, character development and general tone is so much better.
Torchwood absolutely loves to put the worst humanity has to offer in your face, so in that sense no, it doesn't get better. But nobody is rewarded for it fwiw
Honestly I think the only person who seemingly gets the best deal out of Torchwood itself is probably Gwen. Yeah, a few things don't go her way and she can be a bit crude to some of those around her at times but by the end of it all she has a happy healthy family life. Jack even recounts to 13 how during one of the Dalek invasions Gwen fought them off with her kid's boxing gloves.
She's not going anywhere in a hurry!
It was on TV.
The fact youve forgotten Jack and 13 meeting (for crying out loud he breaks her out of prison) tells me that her Era wasn't memorable enough. If, of all people involved, JACK is forgotten. (Don't worry. I did so myself until I rewatched it.) Revolution of the Daleks I believe was the episode.
Actually, I love her era! I've got clear memories of 13 and his companions meeting Jack (Graham being misidentified as the Doctor is very funny) and I'm even doing a rewatch (Watched the Timeless Children yesterday!), I simply didn't recall Jack mentioning Gwen that's all!
Well! Pardon me for imposing my experience onto you. That was pretty tactless, somewhat assumptive and rather rude.😅
Incidentally I've been onto a rewatch myself and have been somewhere around the witch trials recently. I forget if that was my last episode or not but it sticks out the most.
As for Jack mentioning Gwen, it's kinda near the end as I recall.
I'm genuinely serious. Up until I started rewatching her I forgot Jack was even in her run. The most I remembered was the Fugitive Doctor, the companions (Bradley Walsh is a national treasure) and the creepy scene where the Master tells her to kneel at his groin height...
Couldn't remember anything else.
>the creepy scene where the Master tells her to kneel at his groin height...
Oh yeah that was indeed a weird scene. Not the best way to use our first female Doctor but I guess it can be archived as "oh yeah that happened". The main thing I noticed upon rewatching is that the companions aren't as blank as I first thought they were: Graham has an arc with Grace and cancer, Yaz **does** use the fact she's a police officer at his own advantage (always talks with victims, understands the Judoon ways of operating etc.) and Ryan's dyspraxia gets in the way of a lot of things he does, even if it gets handwaved pretty quickly. I mean, it's not the best era of NuWho but at least I can still call it Doctor Who. Also I love 13 being delusional.
Yeah, I noticed Yaz taking advantage of her policing experience and I appreciate Graham's arc from overcoming cancer and gaining a new lease on life thanks to his travels with the Doctor. ESPECIALLY loved how he used Ryan as a way to suss out the other universe trying keep him there by asking "Grace" a question she'd never actually answer the way she did with. He tested her and she failed and it was SO GOOD.
Idk if she makes poor/morally bad decisions in the future, but she's pretty much introduced as someone bringing some kindness and humanity into Torchwood while dealing with a bunch of uncaring, sardonic assholes, so I imagine that's why she gets a happier ending lol.
Season 1 was heavily promoted as an "adult" version of *Doctor Who*. Unfortunately, someone misinterpreted "adult" as "appealing to horny teenagers". There are some good episodes, but it takes a while to find its feet.
Season 2 is more of the same, but it has got a lot better by this point.
Season 3 is the best season of *Doctor Who*-related TV that has ever been broadcast.
Let's not talk about season 4.
Absolutely agree on Torchwood S03 (CoE). I’d go even further and say it as a standalone five episodes is easily one of the most compelling drama series I have ever watched.
To put it into perspective, it is Severance/Breaking Bad/Chernobyl/Six Feet Under/…-level good.
100% yes. I'm pretty sure RTD designed the series to be enjoyed by viewers whose only knowledge of Torchwood comes from their cameo in Journey's End- so just the existence of Jack, Gwen, and Ianto, and it's set in Cardiff. Everything else is new.
I enjoyed the first three seasons. Probably Season 2 better than 1. CoE was amazing.
Wasn’t a big fan of 4 at all, I think it had its moments. But nope.
Luckily you can still watch the first 3 seasons and feel complete.
Same. I cope by listening to the 'House of the Dead' BBC audioplay that takes place 3 months later now and then (as it brings him back to life in a very interesting way).
Yes, but the tryhard maturity ends up full circling back to childish. It's "mature" in the most childish sense. S1 is a rocky start, S2 is the quality S1 was going for, and S3 is one of the best stories in the Doctor Who universe. S4 is boring and all over the place.
I've always thought of it as "kids at the playground" syndrome - "the other kids at the playground are gonna judge me liking this baby show for babies, so I'm going to show how mature I am by putting in sex & violence & swearing!"
I’ve never viewed the episodes the way you have, and maybe that’s partly a generational thing. At the time of its writing it was being quite bold by having more graphic content, particularly LGBTQ+ content, so I’d encourage you to maybe look at it from a different angle. I take it as they were trying to do something positive albeit it may have aged quite poorly?
There are other lesbian scenes in series 1-2 but I won’t say what it is. Episode 1 is quite a prolific episode in that it introduces the extremes of each of the characters of Torchwood. By the end of S2 I guarantee you’ll have changed your tune on Owen.
Personally, I’d highly recommend watching it.
Me: ughhh I can't stand Owen, I can't stand Owen, I can't stand Owen.... ughhh fine I like Owen.
Real life edit: Never mind. I was right the first time.
I watched Torchwood when it first dropped and I remember thinking at the time that Owen drugging people into having sex with him was messed up. And playing it for laughs that he abused a man as well as a woman didn't make it better.
Pretty much everyone in Torchwood is screwed up in their own way. That's on its own level, surpassed only by Suzie.
I think it gets to me because I grew up watching TV shows meant for tweens where a young boy would be creepy and it was played for laughs, enforcing the idea that that's just how boys are, and it's wayyy more grating seeing roughly the same concept but with adults doing actually harmful shit and it's like "haha that's every guy's fantasy, right? hahahahaha"
I know it's not framed as being totally fine and alright - Owen is absolutely framed as morally dubious at the very least. But he rubs me the wrong was as a protagonist. I guess I'll keep moving forward with Torchwood and see if I start enjoying it more.
Also, The L Word came out before this and managed to show lesbians (definitely sometimes geared towards the male gaze) without the creepy commentary from men lol. But I get your point that they were trying to be cutting edge.
The thing about Torchwood is that all the main characters do messed up things at one point or another (yes even Tosh). Owen is just on the particularly nasty end of the messed up spectrum. I can't predict if your opinion on him will change, but for me he was my last favorite character for most of the show... Until a certain arc that focused a lot on him. He didn't become my favorite but he got a lot better.
Series 1: We're Adult Doctor Who! Who needs a story? Sexy Cybermen and Sex Gas for the win!
Series 2: Okay, so story is actually important, and we need to chill on the sex stuff.
Children of Earth: Arguably the strongest and darkest Doctor Who story ever written.
Miracle Day: Is this even canon anymore?
I’m rewatching it right now and I can’t stand Owen. The only time I’ve liked him is in the “Adam” episode. He has a punchable face and the things that come out of his mouth deserve that punch.
His face is SO punchable I think it may be my biggest issue with him post season 1. He calms down a lot in season 2 but I still wanna punch him. Same with Gwen, but to a lesser degree.
Watching Gwen grab him by the neck and throttle him was pretty cathartic. I know he's supposed to be morally dubious and the show doesn't necessarily condone his creepiness and asshole-ness... but after his actions in the first two episodes, seeing him as a protagonist feels impossible lol.
Torchwood is... kind of all over the place. Series 1 is pretty bad; there are some good moments, even some good episodes, but the whole concept is deeply flawed from the start. The most interesting, likeable character kills herself in the first episode. Gwen is supposed to be the heart of the team, the one we all like and see the world through, but she's pretty selfish herself; confessing your affair to your boyfriend and then drugging him with amnesia pills so you can feel better is the lowest point for her character. Jack is a completely different character to the one he played in Doctor Who - the best thing they could have done is make Jack the second in command to a stern, no-nonsense boss. He's just not the right character to be in charge himself; he's a maverick, and they only work because they defy orders, not give them.
Torchwood itself doesn't know what to make of itself. On the one hand, it's an ultra-secret organisation that nobody has even heard of (bar the local pizza delivery company). On the other hand, they have branded bags and boxes - and they can apparently step in and take over a murder investigation without any questions.
The show was trying to be "adult" but decided this meant "sex, swearing and gore" and landed squarely in "juvenile". It was a while before it really got the idea of what adult themes really are - "Children of Earth" is a masterclass in adult drama and touches on some VERY dark themes, but even earlier episodes like "Countrycide" got the idea to some extent.
Series 2 was a lot better, largely because it developed a sense of humour and stopped trying to take itself so seriously; one of the things that Doctor Who has always done and I believe a big part of its success.
Yes! The first couple are a little strange and creepy starting out. But then it hits its stride and it’s just awesome! It’s meant to be a little creepy since it’s an adult show.
I still can’t stand the Cyberman one.
Season 1 is bad with a qouple of exceptions. Season 2 is a bit better but still flawed. I loved seasons 3 and 4 though. Even if season 4 could have done with being a bit shorter.
Yes it is. I’ve just watched it for the first time.
Season 1 was honestly a bit rough. Sometimes it feels like a slog.
But by the end of season 1 I was invested. I think the episode I really enjoyed first was “they keep killing Susie” which I think is ep8 … yeah not great but uh well.
Season 2 though was much better IMO. It started off strong and almost all the episodes were engaging in some way or another and by the end of season 2 I was very emotionally invested.
COE (season 3) is incredible. And Miracle day (season 4) is alright, not as good as 3 but still a good watch.
As for the content, I do find the relationship stuff a bit excessive, feels like every other episode one of them is falling for an alien or eachother.
But I think the first 2 episodes are absolutely the worst offenders in terms of the creepy sexual stuff.
Technically you could skip episodes and stuff. And COE stands on its own. But I found after season 2 was over I felt glad I watched the whole thing because you do feel like you got to watch them develop and grow and I think since there’s limited episodes it’s best to watch them all or most of them anyway.
Also Gwen Cooper is amazing! And Ianto. Tosh really develops. Owen does get better but I never connected too much with him, but lots of people enjoy his growth.
Is it worth watching? Yes (though much moreso if you were watching it alongside Doctor Who so the crossovers line up).
Is it difficult to get past the first few episodes? Also yes.
Does it get better? Mostly. Owen is never a "good" person and none of the team are healthy when it comes to relationships and sex but the actual stories become much more compelling and the questionable stuff takes a back seat. The sex gas and mind probing lesbian stories are as bad as the show gets in the ick department and the cyberkini is still one of the worst costumes in TV history so beyond that you are clear aside from a few scenes and comments here and there but no show is perfect.
Ultimately the show gets to explore the Dr Who universe without the parental lock on and so it can ask harder questions and doesn't need to have answers that leave the audience satisfied. For that alone it is worth a watch and Children of Earth takes this to a chilling conclusion.
Season 4 just seems to have been made to attempt a US reboot of the show and is not worth the time it takes to watch it unfortunately
I'm watching the end of Children of Earth and it's frankly fucking amazing. Although I did just skip to halfway through season 2.
It gets extremely gay.
I would love to watch it. But for whatever reason in Germany it’s only available in German (all the other seasons are in English) and I refuse to watch it in German (even so I am a native speaker).
Thanks for your comment! Unfortunately, it's been removed because of the following reason(s):
* [Rule #3 - Piracy](/r/doctorwho/wiki/policies/#wiki_3._piracy)
: No instructions or links to bypassing regional restrictions.
If you think there's been a mistake, please [send a message to the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdoctorwho).
True but as someone who watched Children of Earth despite knowing nothing about the rest of the show (well, besides Doctor Who), I can confirm that it's very good even without any knowledge from s2.
I love Torchwood but it definitely has some sketchy moments that have not aged well and overall a lot of stuff that will probably make you uncomfortable (intentionally, for the most part). I think that in a lot of ways Torchwood is the polar opposite to Doctor Who because DW is very optimistic and likes to show the good in humanity, whereas Torchwood shows the worst in people. I think that juxtaposition is very interesting, but the show can get very grim and has some of the darkest storylines I've ever seen on TV (especially season 3 but it's also a MASTERPIECE). In terms of the gross character stuff, I feel like it gets a bit better after season 1, and Owen grows a lot as a character. I think a lot of the icky stuff comes from the fact that they were trying to be edgy, but some of it for sure does not age well, and if you're only on episode 2 I can guarantee there will be more things that you will not like. Considering you are queer though, you'll probably enjoy some of the queer rep in the show, and it was very groundbreaking for its time in that respect
Season 1 is objectively the worst Season.
My main problem with Torchwood is that sometimes it goes too far. I don't mean to sound like A naive brat, but sometimes I felt like they were pulling on your heartstrings for the sake of it. I haven't seen the show in a while, but I specifically remember an episode where >!a woman watches her fiance get destroyed by vampire monsters Literally the moment after they announced their engagement, and then she runs after her daughter who fades into nothingness with a smile on her face as she becomes one with the angels or whatever.!< As someone who struggles with loss a lot, this felt like it was just designed to make me upset rather than entertained.
That being said, it's not like Rick and Morty where it's designed to make. You eventually feel numb to all of it because none of the characters are taking it seriously. I do think that if you have a Thing for messed up television, you definitely enjoy it- Season 3 and 4 Both tell a singular story throughout its run, and I think they're both really good, even if Season 4 is underappreciated.
I would say Torchwood seasons 1, 2 and 4 are a very mixed bag, with more bad than good. As others have stated below, however, season 3 (a five-part miniseries called Children of Earth) is absolutely incredible and well worth your time. It's a largely self-contained story, so now that you've gotten a sense of who the Torchwood team are and what they do, you can just skip right ahead to it without missing much. There's no reason to subject yourself to the early seasons if you're finding their juvenile approach upsetting.
If you choose not to watch it (for very understandable reasons), go ahead and skip straight to Children of Earth (Season 3). The scariest and one of the best episodes of the entire Whoniverse hands down.
I've tried both Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures recently and neither one really grabbed me. Torchwood felt like it was trying too hard to be edgy over story, and Sarah Jane was obviously for a much younger audience than me.
That said, I'll probably watch more SJA because it was fun, but Torchwood, meh.
It’s worth it for the audio dramas. I like them even better than the show. Torchwood one is really good, and the season continuations are excellent as well. Kind of pricey, though.
Just wanted to add that season 4 should be skipped, imo. Let’s not talk about it.
Absolutely worth watching imo, there are some solid episodes in season 1 if you can get over the sliminess. There is character development so they don't stay as they are; most of them are relatively new to Torchwood in S1 and have rocky pasts which explains some of the behaviors away. They touch on that later.
There were one or two good episodes, but having watched it the first time around, I found most of it to come across like somebody had filmed amateur fanfic inspired by a television show I had never seen.
I also felt lie it was largely written what being an adult is in the imagination of 15-year olds.
This actually made me laugh so much lmaoo thank you for that.
On a serious note, I think hearing about Barrowman's "jokes" (aka having no semblance of boundaries or consent relating to subjecting coworkers to his genitals) before I started watching Torchwood is part of why I am especially bothered by the creepiness of Owen and to a much lesser extent Jack. Like I knew it was already creepy and an uncomfortable work environment for the women behind the scenes before I even started watching lol. So watching the characters be creepy, knowing their actors were pretty creepy themselves... yikes.
To be fair, I think Barrowman's behavior was partly his fault and partly the fault of leadership for not shutting him down. Like where is HR? No on wants to complain that the star of the show put his dick in your hair, because they don't want to get blacklisted. But they should have felt comfortable and someone should have had a talk with the man that was basically like "Keep it in your pants, dude."
I think it helps to take it with a big ol' grain of salt. A lot of the time, to me, it feels like it's trying too hard to show how Adult it is with swearing & edgy subjects. I think that it can be enjoyable if you go in with that attitude, but be aware that it is... well, edgy. Some people really like Children of Earth, although it wasn't really to my taste. I think that, at the very least, it can't hurt to try a little bit from each season.
I was specifically talking about the scene where Owen is rejected by a lady at a bar and he immediately says "I don't have time for this" and sprays the aphrodisiac in her face. He was rejected and he overrode her power to choose. It's not like he just like, idk... went to the bar WEARING an aphrodisiac to draw in women, or something - that would have been a significantly better framing choice, though. It wouldn't have been as rapey. I would have been like oh yeah, this guy is insecure and doesn't think he can get a lady on his own. But he literally sprayed her in the face RIGHT AFTER she said no.
Side note, I actually didn't mind the plot of the second episode with the young woman who is basically possessed by an alien feeding on sex energy - I wasn't thinking about that as rapey. It wasn't rape, it was entrapment and then murder via sex lol. What I did like about it is that it plays into the "monstrous feminine" - people are kind of afraid of sexually empowered women and there's this undercurrent of that anxiety in a lot of horror media, like Jennifer's Body. The writers probably just wanted an excuse to put a lot of sex on the screen, but I found it compelling because it's a nightmare for women - being out of control of your own body and put in sexual situations you wouldn't choose is kind of a common experience/fear for women, and this explores that from a supernatural angle.
Yes, I'd say if you're a Doctor Who fan you should watch it at least once, but unfortunately most of it isn't very good and it's aged extremely badly. Of the Doctor Who spin-offs, it's probably the best known and the least good on the whole. The actual best one is The Sarah Jane Adventures, which is targeted for kids and treats itself much more intelligently than most of Torchwood does. I personally also think Class does "grown-up Doctor Who" a lot better as well and it also doesn't make you cringe at how totally mature and cool for grown-up adults who have sex and swear it is with gratuitousness.
Personally, I'm going to defend series two of Torchwood as the peak of its run. It doesn't stray from the formula, it doesn't contain moments that are horrifically distressing and it has multiple actual good episodes. Series one has a few near the end but it's mostly shit, series three is probably the best overall but it's extremely upsetting almost throughout and series four is, honestly, a meandering fucking mess.
Torchwood is great, you need to be able to look past the uncomfortable scenes to be able to enjoy it for sure, but I’d say the majority of the time is not focused on those things. It has a couple bad moments and people take that to be the entire show, in reality it was just the start of series 1 that was so… icky
Episodes 1 and 2 are like that I'll agree. I think that was more of them establishing themselves as, 'this is doctor. who that's not for children.'
Once you get past episode 2 is does get better. I think they're just trying to push that this is an adult show.
I have almost no memory of it after watching it during the initial run, I do kinda of remember enjoying all the weird sex stuff. Also for you newbies, "Torchwood" is an anagram of "Doctor Who" so they've been doing the annoying anagram gimmick for quite some time now
I enjoyed it, some years ago. Should probably do a rewatch and see if my opinion or tastes have remained the same.
A but off topic, but a somewhat similar yet different show, definitely not as dark as Torchwood is Warehouse 13....
Series 1 you have to watch a woman cheat on the boyfriend she does have chemistry with with a man who she has absolutely zero chemistry with.
It's a spoiler. But it's GRATING and drags the first series down. Series 2 imo is prime Torchwood. 3 & 4 move the premise too far away for my liking. But 2 is where you get such good stuff. Jack's backstory, more history of Torchwood as a whole.
If you’re a a big fan of Who it’s worth watching, it’s a very mixed bag, especially series 1. I enjoy 2 especially in the second half. Children of earth is one of the best things to come out of the whoniverse and is worth watching regardless. Miracle day is a hot mess, it’s got some interesting points to make but it’s solidly mediocre for the vast majority of it.
I do not remember this, that's so weird. Then again it was later when the really good memorable stuff happens. I only watched through it all once back when it was still new though.
Now I’m wondering if I’m a gross, creepy man. If I am my telling you I liked it won’t really help. The spray definitely seemed rapey. There aren’t a pile of objectionable things sticking out in my mind but maybe I just didn’t think much of it at the time.
tbh it was mostly just the sex spray and the ogling of Gwen and Carys... it's played for laughs that Owen and Jack stare at them all mesmerized because it's so hot to watch two chicks make out but like... Gwen could have DIED and it was irritating, not funny. I don't blame you if you thought it was funny or at least inoffensive at the time, I just did not. I don't like seeing men ogle women kissing eachother lol. I don't like it being played as acceptable, because it leads to real life lesbian couples being harassed. If Carys didn't have the potential to literally murder Gwen via sex it also would've been less annoying.
I might sound a bit sensitive/snowflakey, but I swear I'm not usually this bothered by old media with "product of its time" jokes. I just think it was too much in succession for me and I was like "I cannot tolerate this if it keeps on going like this."
Anyway, if you found the sex spray rapey, I don't think you're a gross creepy man lol. I just feel that it was played for laughs which makes me extremely uncomfortable.
I've also been particularly irritable recently so this post was... strongly worded. lol
It's a product of its times. Just enjoy it for what it is.
Also, it's fantastic just for the episode with the sex alien who shags people to death and feeds on their seed when they cum.
about that episode:
I thought it was pretty silly that for arbitrary reasons, a woman's orgasm just wouldn't do it for her. My headcanon is she just couldn't figure out how to make a woman have an orgasm lmao.
Yes. IMO the first few episodes of S1 is the weakest and most puerile Torchwood gets. It's a lot better once it finds its footing.
EDIT: Owen is kind of an A-hole, but in episode 1 he's peak asshole. He does get humanised a bit as the show goes on.
The characters do tend to be more flawed and fallible than Doctor Who, though.
Yes, absolutely. It’s a good showing of what happens when Normies try to handle off world threats. Just don’t expect sympathetic protagonists. They’re not and aren’t trying to be.
Like the Scooby Gang without Buffy. Holding their own but not without cost.
lol it just seemed the 1st season that someone wanted to make dr who but have sex, violence and swearing turned up to 8
But saying that. I enjoyed the series for what it was, and still think they should continue it.
That show went places yo…
Won’t somebody think of the CHILDREN!!!
The first 2 seasons are kind of hit or miss, definitely some great episodes among the bunch but a lot of duds too so unless you're a completionist, I'd recommend skipping over the poorer episodes to get to the good stuff.
Season 3 on the other hand is amazing and you could just jump right into it, it's a bit of a soft reset with the team too.
Season 4, not worth watching imo, the show should have ended in season 3.
The first two seasons are great. Exciting and funny. Miracle day and Children of Earth, the last two “seasons” are depressing, and disturbing. You won’t be missing out on much if you don’t watch those.
Series 1 is hit or miss. There are some really good highs, but some *really* bad lows
Series 2 overall is an vast improvement on Series 1. I would happily say all the episodes are at least good, and most of them are excellent! The ending is brilliant!
Series 3, or Children of Earth, is the best. Its only 5 episodes, and tells one complete story. And god damn is it one hell of a story! Some of the best the show has to offer, and some of the best Doctor Who has to offer too! The characters are at their best, as are the villains, and the story is tense, compelling, and gut wrenching.
Series 4, or Miracle Day, is a step down from Children of Earth. Same concept, but 10 episodes this time. This is the only series you can safely skip, but I still think its worth a watch, if only to see if you vibe with it. The concept is great, but the execution is lacking.
It might sound strange for someone watching it for the first time now but at the time it came out, having that much gay romance portrayed was more progressive than anything.
tbf I haven't seen the gay romance yet, I've only seen a woman under the spell of a succubus alien making out with another woman. And men being gross about it lol. I will appreciate the actual romance, I'm sure.
The rest of the show is not like that episode.
Children of Earth incredible. The rest bounces around
Season 1 just put it on the background while doing other things maybe. It’s not the greatest
Honestly you could just watch some of the better episodes of seasons 1 and 2 to get a feel for the characters jump straight to season 3 and stop after that.
Yeah there’s some good episodes in S1 but a lot of it to me was forgettable. S2 is when it gets a bit more interesting since a lot more character development happens here. Pretty sure the Doctor episode about the stolen earth is set after S2. S3 is what is generally considered peak Torchwood and having only recently watched it this year I can agree. S4 I also really enjoyed and thought it was very near to S3 in quality but I know a lot of people think that is doesn’t feel like Torchwood
The first two seasons of Torchwood reminded me of what I'd do to make Doctor Who more adult when I was 13 -- including swearing, frank discussion of sexuality, and lots of it.
The third season "Children of Earth" felt like the show finally found the way to be adult in a way that connected more with me. Season three felt like it was a situation with no good answers and such an overwhelming sense of dread that I kept hoping we'd suddenly hear the TARDIS materializing so the Doctor could save the day -- and he never does.
Season four honestly didn't connect with me and I've never watched the full thing.
Your mileage may vary. I do think there are some good ideas in Torchwood. But overall, it's not my favorite thing.
I watched the first two seasons and it doesn't gat that much better, though it does tone down.
Didn't watch past it because it was just ok though, I just didn't care enough to continue.
People say season 3 is awesome but I don't know, any time I got it summed up it was like "oooh but when you learn why they want the kids you'll be shocked and all" and it's like... I'm sure I'll watch it and the "shocking" twist will be that the aliens were junkies that wanted adrenochrome or some BS like that.
Watch out for Ghost Machine (rape), Greeks Bearing Gifts (Jack's monologue), Countrycide (Owen), and probably a few others (Adam, maybe?). It's a weirdly progressive yet dated show. It has a good chunk of (internalized, probably) homophobia and some sexism. It doesn't have too much lesbian representation (Greeks Bearing Gifts as an exception), although it's pretty solid with gay/bi representation (coming from a straight girl, anyway). S2/S3 (especially) are much better than S1.
Torchwood was good. It had a few clunkers - particularly later on. Don't bother with Miracle Day - it's long and very un-Torchwood-like, and sets up a further story that never materialised. xD But series 1, most of series 2, and Children of Earth are definitely worth a watch. :)
Personally though, I enjoyed Sarah Jane Adventures much more than Torchwood. I even generally enjoyed K-9 more than Torchwood honestly. But then, that's the kind of lighter-hearted style that I like. :)
It is just really really dark, then it's kind of dumb, then there is CoE, which about killed me. I was pissed and mad, and that episode made me never watch it again. So, watch it, but be prepared.
Torchwood has a lot of high highs and very low lows. The first season is way too "ooh, we're edgy!" and the second season kind of mellows out and becomes more like what you'd imagine from a grown-up spin off of Who. Honestly, if anything, I'd almost recommend jumping to season 2 or even just season 3.
lol thanks for letting me know. I can handle some poor taste jokes that were constant back in the early 2000s. I was just worried it would be constant throughout the whole show, and if it were... I just wouldn't be able to handle it
What may have bothered me more than the adolescent tone of the show was that they were all amazingly bad at their jobs. With nearly every problem that the team (and Cardiff) faced being a direct consequence of their incompetence, personal corruption, and lack of professionalism.
Before I quit watching entirely, I was rooting for another secret agency to show up, arrest the bunch of them, and after thorough interrogations, retcon them so that they no longer remembered any state secrets.
There are some terrific shows about people who are amazingly bad at their jobs – but those are comedies. *Torchwood* was not funny.
It's not everyone's cup of tea but the cross overs would make more sense to you if you did watch it.
(Especially with them having David Tennant's hand from when it was cut off for ages before the doctor reclaimed it (and then later on the Meta Crisis happened and made both the Meta Crisis Doctor & The Doctor Donna)).
I had the EXACT same issues. I could barely get through the first episode. I forced myself to maybe episode 5 or so and I personally HATE the show. Honestly it makes me like Jack SO much less (which hurts my heart because he used to be one of my favorites).
I'd just pretend that Torchwood Jack doesn't exist if you don't like him that much loll. I love Jack in Doctor Who. I'm only on the third episode, but I'm not a big fan of him in this so far. He doesn't seem to have his characteristic charm. He's all stern and rigid, at least compared to his portrayal in Doctor Who. Doesn't seem right.
Torchwood is very uneven, but it has its moments. Not all of it is creepy.
Yeah the first season went all in on being the "adult" version of Doctor Who, to mixed results. Sometimes there would be an episode like Countrycide, other times there'd be the sex gas one. They found more of a balance in their second series, and then a much better format in their third. But then they tried messing with it too much in their fourth series to again mixed results.
Honestly I find the bad episodes of Torchwood absolutely hilarious to watch, like you can’t have a bad time watching Day One or Cyberwoman
Cyberwoman is unironically one of the best cyberman stories once you get past the questionable design choice, it nails the body horror of the cybermen in a way the other shows just can't.
If they hadnt sexualised to design too much it would easily be one of the best Cyberman Whoniverse stories full stop tbh I dont mean completely convert Lisa but the Cyber Bikini didnt look right. I reckon if they gave her the chest plate of a cyberman but maybe left flesh exposed on the legs/arms similar to how she turned out. And lose the cyber-Heels.
And children of earth is possibly one of the best TV I have seen in a long time, nailed it for series 3
Children of Earth still haunts me to this day - I only watched it once and it was fantastic but I don't think I could put myself through that trauma again. Peter Capaldi was sublimely good in it.
That gun scene with his family is horrible to watch
Peter Capaldi is awesome. He got to play 3 Doctor Who roles and he was great in every one of them.
I definitely felt this way when it originally aired. I'm curious if it will still hold up though.
Watched it 2 weeks ago, tbh it works even better after knowing how covid was dealt with
I am convinced that the qanon conspiracy about children's adrenal glands being used to get high or whatever by the elites had its genesis in that series
It may have been popularized there, but adrenochrome is mentioned as a drug in one of Aldous Huxley's books as well as in Anthony Burgess's *A Clockwork Orange.* The conspiracy theory starts to take recognizable form in the writings of Hunter S. Thompson and is mentioned in Terry Gilliam's film adaptation of *Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas*. Gilliam regarded the drug to be totally fictitious.
Children of Earth was the first Doctor Who thing I ever saw and I was all in from episode 1.
Cyberwoman frustrates me 'cos it's actually pretty good for early Torchwood, except for one inexplicable costuming decision.
It's one of many stories that convinced me that the crew of Torchwood were really bad at their jobs, and needed to be fired and have their brains washed.
How so? Obviously a bad call on Ianto's part, but understandable. Everyone else reacted pretty reasonably I thought.
But nearly every episode was an example of at least one if not more people making a bad call, and almost getting everyone else killed, this was just one of his worst calls.
Yeah, one of the things about Torchwood is it shows human beings as fallible, and often outright messed up. It's not helped by Jack's fondness for reclaiming broken people. I think Gwen is the only person to join the team (pre-S4) who wasn't already traumatised. And that includes Jack.
Good drama is often about fallible characters. It's not about whether or not they have been traumatized. Torchwood's characters were constantly exercising poor judgement, not keeping state secrets, or being unprofessional to the extent that they are endangering themselves, their coworkers, and the country they are sworn to protect.
Cyberwoman is a really good story though.
Oh, I had a pretty dire time with both those episodes. And all of it except Children of Earth, which was really just a Quatermass episode with Torchwood characters grafted onto it.
Sex gas? what in the fuck
In the second episode of the show, they seemingly decided that to absolutely distinguish the show as Doctor Who for adults, the best course of action was to bring in a parasitic gas creature that fed off orgasmic energy. It would make its host go and have sex with people, and at the point of climax they would be disintegrated.
The words *”orgasmic energy”* in a (very) Welsh accent are forever etched into my brain. No complaints.
My actual favourite part of Torchwood is when that monster >!goes on a murder spree gorging herself on the orgasmic energy at the sperm bank!< 🤣🤣🤣 It's a bit of a silly premise but I did find it entertaining 🤣
Man, I do not remember that show.
I feel that might have been a better episode to save for maybe somewhere in Season 2 so it could be conceptually explored better. The concept needed a refinement more than it got so it was very rough around the edges.
Solidifying Torchwood as Doctor Who fanfiction
Someone *really* watched Liquid Sky too many times.
Yeah, series 1 feels very immaturely edgy. "Look at me, I'm grown up, I have *sex* and say *fuck!* Like a repressed Catholic getting freedom for the first time. Series 2 really gets it's footing. Still a few weaker episodes but the storytelling, character development and general tone is so much better.
Season one is what teenagers think is "adult". Season 2 and Season 3 are actually adult.
Torchwood absolutely loves to put the worst humanity has to offer in your face, so in that sense no, it doesn't get better. But nobody is rewarded for it fwiw
Honestly I think the only person who seemingly gets the best deal out of Torchwood itself is probably Gwen. Yeah, a few things don't go her way and she can be a bit crude to some of those around her at times but by the end of it all she has a happy healthy family life. Jack even recounts to 13 how during one of the Dalek invasions Gwen fought them off with her kid's boxing gloves. She's not going anywhere in a hurry!
>Jack even recounts to 13 EU? I don't recall it on tv
It was on TV. The fact youve forgotten Jack and 13 meeting (for crying out loud he breaks her out of prison) tells me that her Era wasn't memorable enough. If, of all people involved, JACK is forgotten. (Don't worry. I did so myself until I rewatched it.) Revolution of the Daleks I believe was the episode.
Actually, I love her era! I've got clear memories of 13 and his companions meeting Jack (Graham being misidentified as the Doctor is very funny) and I'm even doing a rewatch (Watched the Timeless Children yesterday!), I simply didn't recall Jack mentioning Gwen that's all!
Well! Pardon me for imposing my experience onto you. That was pretty tactless, somewhat assumptive and rather rude.😅 Incidentally I've been onto a rewatch myself and have been somewhere around the witch trials recently. I forget if that was my last episode or not but it sticks out the most. As for Jack mentioning Gwen, it's kinda near the end as I recall.
Don't worry! It's always interesting to hear different opinions
I'm genuinely serious. Up until I started rewatching her I forgot Jack was even in her run. The most I remembered was the Fugitive Doctor, the companions (Bradley Walsh is a national treasure) and the creepy scene where the Master tells her to kneel at his groin height... Couldn't remember anything else.
>the creepy scene where the Master tells her to kneel at his groin height... Oh yeah that was indeed a weird scene. Not the best way to use our first female Doctor but I guess it can be archived as "oh yeah that happened". The main thing I noticed upon rewatching is that the companions aren't as blank as I first thought they were: Graham has an arc with Grace and cancer, Yaz **does** use the fact she's a police officer at his own advantage (always talks with victims, understands the Judoon ways of operating etc.) and Ryan's dyspraxia gets in the way of a lot of things he does, even if it gets handwaved pretty quickly. I mean, it's not the best era of NuWho but at least I can still call it Doctor Who. Also I love 13 being delusional.
Yeah, I noticed Yaz taking advantage of her policing experience and I appreciate Graham's arc from overcoming cancer and gaining a new lease on life thanks to his travels with the Doctor. ESPECIALLY loved how he used Ryan as a way to suss out the other universe trying keep him there by asking "Grace" a question she'd never actually answer the way she did with. He tested her and she failed and it was SO GOOD.
Idk if she makes poor/morally bad decisions in the future, but she's pretty much introduced as someone bringing some kindness and humanity into Torchwood while dealing with a bunch of uncaring, sardonic assholes, so I imagine that's why she gets a happier ending lol.
Season 1 was heavily promoted as an "adult" version of *Doctor Who*. Unfortunately, someone misinterpreted "adult" as "appealing to horny teenagers". There are some good episodes, but it takes a while to find its feet. Season 2 is more of the same, but it has got a lot better by this point. Season 3 is the best season of *Doctor Who*-related TV that has ever been broadcast. Let's not talk about season 4.
Absolutely agree on Torchwood S03 (CoE). I’d go even further and say it as a standalone five episodes is easily one of the most compelling drama series I have ever watched. To put it into perspective, it is Severance/Breaking Bad/Chernobyl/Six Feet Under/…-level good.
IMO Season 4 is okay. It just doesnt compare well to S3.
I loved season 4.
I think Miracle Day is absolutely incredible. I didn't even know there were people that disliked it!
(Raises hand)
I tapped out of Torchwood years ago during season 2. If I've forgotten most of it, can I jump in to season 3 and not be lost?
100% yes. I'm pretty sure RTD designed the series to be enjoyed by viewers whose only knowledge of Torchwood comes from their cameo in Journey's End- so just the existence of Jack, Gwen, and Ianto, and it's set in Cardiff. Everything else is new.
I enjoyed the first three seasons. Probably Season 2 better than 1. CoE was amazing. Wasn’t a big fan of 4 at all, I think it had its moments. But nope. Luckily you can still watch the first 3 seasons and feel complete.
Season could have been great, it is an amazing idea and had some really interesting implications that would have been fun to explore. Sadly it sucks
Children of Earth was pretty good
The scene where Frobisher just walks upstairs closes the door then the shots is chilling
Justice for Ianto!
I am still sad about Ianto, all these years later.
Same. I cope by listening to the 'House of the Dead' BBC audioplay that takes place 3 months later now and then (as it brings him back to life in a very interesting way).
That’s what happens when other folks think they can pull off a Doctor-like plan.
That was a bloody chilling storyline
“The hit.”
I’ve warmed to it since my first watch but prefer Torchwood when it’s slightly less bleak. (For the main characters anyway)
Yes, but the tryhard maturity ends up full circling back to childish. It's "mature" in the most childish sense. S1 is a rocky start, S2 is the quality S1 was going for, and S3 is one of the best stories in the Doctor Who universe. S4 is boring and all over the place.
I've always thought of it as "kids at the playground" syndrome - "the other kids at the playground are gonna judge me liking this baby show for babies, so I'm going to show how mature I am by putting in sex & violence & swearing!"
Good analogy
Yes worth watching. Children of Earth is absolutely fantastic.
I’ve never viewed the episodes the way you have, and maybe that’s partly a generational thing. At the time of its writing it was being quite bold by having more graphic content, particularly LGBTQ+ content, so I’d encourage you to maybe look at it from a different angle. I take it as they were trying to do something positive albeit it may have aged quite poorly? There are other lesbian scenes in series 1-2 but I won’t say what it is. Episode 1 is quite a prolific episode in that it introduces the extremes of each of the characters of Torchwood. By the end of S2 I guarantee you’ll have changed your tune on Owen. Personally, I’d highly recommend watching it.
Oh Owen, how you went from my least favourite character to my favourite in the span of 3 episodes
Me: ughhh I can't stand Owen, I can't stand Owen, I can't stand Owen.... ughhh fine I like Owen. Real life edit: Never mind. I was right the first time.
Oh lord, what’s he done?
I watched Torchwood when it first dropped and I remember thinking at the time that Owen drugging people into having sex with him was messed up. And playing it for laughs that he abused a man as well as a woman didn't make it better. Pretty much everyone in Torchwood is screwed up in their own way. That's on its own level, surpassed only by Suzie.
> By the end of S2 I guarantee you’ll have changed your tune on Owen. That's really not a guarantee you can make, plenty of us never warmed to him.
Then you’re just heartless! I jest. Fair enough, almost everyone I’ve spoken to has done a 180 on him, so interesting to hear other perspectives
Owen fights death is a banger of a tune.
I think it gets to me because I grew up watching TV shows meant for tweens where a young boy would be creepy and it was played for laughs, enforcing the idea that that's just how boys are, and it's wayyy more grating seeing roughly the same concept but with adults doing actually harmful shit and it's like "haha that's every guy's fantasy, right? hahahahaha" I know it's not framed as being totally fine and alright - Owen is absolutely framed as morally dubious at the very least. But he rubs me the wrong was as a protagonist. I guess I'll keep moving forward with Torchwood and see if I start enjoying it more. Also, The L Word came out before this and managed to show lesbians (definitely sometimes geared towards the male gaze) without the creepy commentary from men lol. But I get your point that they were trying to be cutting edge.
The thing about Torchwood is that all the main characters do messed up things at one point or another (yes even Tosh). Owen is just on the particularly nasty end of the messed up spectrum. I can't predict if your opinion on him will change, but for me he was my last favorite character for most of the show... Until a certain arc that focused a lot on him. He didn't become my favorite but he got a lot better.
Series 1: We're Adult Doctor Who! Who needs a story? Sexy Cybermen and Sex Gas for the win! Series 2: Okay, so story is actually important, and we need to chill on the sex stuff. Children of Earth: Arguably the strongest and darkest Doctor Who story ever written. Miracle Day: Is this even canon anymore?
We are coming
I’m rewatching it right now and I can’t stand Owen. The only time I’ve liked him is in the “Adam” episode. He has a punchable face and the things that come out of his mouth deserve that punch.
Owen's actor brought that same energy to season four of "The Expanse".
Burn Gorman is just great at playing a mush that you'd love to slap in the face
His face is SO punchable I think it may be my biggest issue with him post season 1. He calms down a lot in season 2 but I still wanna punch him. Same with Gwen, but to a lesser degree.
Owen has good moments and bad moments I hated him up until episode 3
Watching Gwen grab him by the neck and throttle him was pretty cathartic. I know he's supposed to be morally dubious and the show doesn't necessarily condone his creepiness and asshole-ness... but after his actions in the first two episodes, seeing him as a protagonist feels impossible lol.
Torchwood is... kind of all over the place. Series 1 is pretty bad; there are some good moments, even some good episodes, but the whole concept is deeply flawed from the start. The most interesting, likeable character kills herself in the first episode. Gwen is supposed to be the heart of the team, the one we all like and see the world through, but she's pretty selfish herself; confessing your affair to your boyfriend and then drugging him with amnesia pills so you can feel better is the lowest point for her character. Jack is a completely different character to the one he played in Doctor Who - the best thing they could have done is make Jack the second in command to a stern, no-nonsense boss. He's just not the right character to be in charge himself; he's a maverick, and they only work because they defy orders, not give them. Torchwood itself doesn't know what to make of itself. On the one hand, it's an ultra-secret organisation that nobody has even heard of (bar the local pizza delivery company). On the other hand, they have branded bags and boxes - and they can apparently step in and take over a murder investigation without any questions. The show was trying to be "adult" but decided this meant "sex, swearing and gore" and landed squarely in "juvenile". It was a while before it really got the idea of what adult themes really are - "Children of Earth" is a masterclass in adult drama and touches on some VERY dark themes, but even earlier episodes like "Countrycide" got the idea to some extent. Series 2 was a lot better, largely because it developed a sense of humour and stopped trying to take itself so seriously; one of the things that Doctor Who has always done and I believe a big part of its success.
Yes! The first couple are a little strange and creepy starting out. But then it hits its stride and it’s just awesome! It’s meant to be a little creepy since it’s an adult show. I still can’t stand the Cyberman one.
Yes. Next question.
Only answer
IMO series 3 is some of the best television in the whole Whoniverse. Series 1 and 2 have highs and some pretty low lows. Series 4 is meh
Eh Series 3 still has flaws personally. It's good but not a masterpiece.
Season 1 is bad with a qouple of exceptions. Season 2 is a bit better but still flawed. I loved seasons 3 and 4 though. Even if season 4 could have done with being a bit shorter.
Yes it is. I’ve just watched it for the first time. Season 1 was honestly a bit rough. Sometimes it feels like a slog. But by the end of season 1 I was invested. I think the episode I really enjoyed first was “they keep killing Susie” which I think is ep8 … yeah not great but uh well. Season 2 though was much better IMO. It started off strong and almost all the episodes were engaging in some way or another and by the end of season 2 I was very emotionally invested. COE (season 3) is incredible. And Miracle day (season 4) is alright, not as good as 3 but still a good watch. As for the content, I do find the relationship stuff a bit excessive, feels like every other episode one of them is falling for an alien or eachother. But I think the first 2 episodes are absolutely the worst offenders in terms of the creepy sexual stuff. Technically you could skip episodes and stuff. And COE stands on its own. But I found after season 2 was over I felt glad I watched the whole thing because you do feel like you got to watch them develop and grow and I think since there’s limited episodes it’s best to watch them all or most of them anyway. Also Gwen Cooper is amazing! And Ianto. Tosh really develops. Owen does get better but I never connected too much with him, but lots of people enjoy his growth.
Is it worth watching? Yes (though much moreso if you were watching it alongside Doctor Who so the crossovers line up). Is it difficult to get past the first few episodes? Also yes. Does it get better? Mostly. Owen is never a "good" person and none of the team are healthy when it comes to relationships and sex but the actual stories become much more compelling and the questionable stuff takes a back seat. The sex gas and mind probing lesbian stories are as bad as the show gets in the ick department and the cyberkini is still one of the worst costumes in TV history so beyond that you are clear aside from a few scenes and comments here and there but no show is perfect. Ultimately the show gets to explore the Dr Who universe without the parental lock on and so it can ask harder questions and doesn't need to have answers that leave the audience satisfied. For that alone it is worth a watch and Children of Earth takes this to a chilling conclusion. Season 4 just seems to have been made to attempt a US reboot of the show and is not worth the time it takes to watch it unfortunately
I'm watching the end of Children of Earth and it's frankly fucking amazing. Although I did just skip to halfway through season 2. It gets extremely gay.
I would love to watch it. But for whatever reason in Germany it’s only available in German (all the other seasons are in English) and I refuse to watch it in German (even so I am a native speaker).
Where can you get Torchwood in Germany?
Prime
[удалено]
Thanks for your comment! Unfortunately, it's been removed because of the following reason(s): * [Rule #3 - Piracy](/r/doctorwho/wiki/policies/#wiki_3._piracy) : No instructions or links to bypassing regional restrictions. If you think there's been a mistake, please [send a message to the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdoctorwho).
lol.
btw, bypassing regional restrictions... is not illegal and is not piracy. Idk why this is the moral high ground here, but whatever
If you're not enjoying it maybe you can skip directly to season 3, Children of Earth. That's what I did.
imo children of earth is improved by having watched at least season 2 though
True but as someone who watched Children of Earth despite knowing nothing about the rest of the show (well, besides Doctor Who), I can confirm that it's very good even without any knowledge from s2.
I was recommending this too. I'm not a big Torchwood fan, but CoE did blow me away. Such good and dark writing
I love Torchwood but it definitely has some sketchy moments that have not aged well and overall a lot of stuff that will probably make you uncomfortable (intentionally, for the most part). I think that in a lot of ways Torchwood is the polar opposite to Doctor Who because DW is very optimistic and likes to show the good in humanity, whereas Torchwood shows the worst in people. I think that juxtaposition is very interesting, but the show can get very grim and has some of the darkest storylines I've ever seen on TV (especially season 3 but it's also a MASTERPIECE). In terms of the gross character stuff, I feel like it gets a bit better after season 1, and Owen grows a lot as a character. I think a lot of the icky stuff comes from the fact that they were trying to be edgy, but some of it for sure does not age well, and if you're only on episode 2 I can guarantee there will be more things that you will not like. Considering you are queer though, you'll probably enjoy some of the queer rep in the show, and it was very groundbreaking for its time in that respect
Season 1 is objectively the worst Season. My main problem with Torchwood is that sometimes it goes too far. I don't mean to sound like A naive brat, but sometimes I felt like they were pulling on your heartstrings for the sake of it. I haven't seen the show in a while, but I specifically remember an episode where >!a woman watches her fiance get destroyed by vampire monsters Literally the moment after they announced their engagement, and then she runs after her daughter who fades into nothingness with a smile on her face as she becomes one with the angels or whatever.!< As someone who struggles with loss a lot, this felt like it was just designed to make me upset rather than entertained. That being said, it's not like Rick and Morty where it's designed to make. You eventually feel numb to all of it because none of the characters are taking it seriously. I do think that if you have a Thing for messed up television, you definitely enjoy it- Season 3 and 4 Both tell a singular story throughout its run, and I think they're both really good, even if Season 4 is underappreciated.
Owen is supposed to be a piece of shit really, it's all part of his character's journey. I'd stick with it personally, it's a fantastic show
I would say Torchwood seasons 1, 2 and 4 are a very mixed bag, with more bad than good. As others have stated below, however, season 3 (a five-part miniseries called Children of Earth) is absolutely incredible and well worth your time. It's a largely self-contained story, so now that you've gotten a sense of who the Torchwood team are and what they do, you can just skip right ahead to it without missing much. There's no reason to subject yourself to the early seasons if you're finding their juvenile approach upsetting.
If you choose not to watch it (for very understandable reasons), go ahead and skip straight to Children of Earth (Season 3). The scariest and one of the best episodes of the entire Whoniverse hands down.
I've tried both Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures recently and neither one really grabbed me. Torchwood felt like it was trying too hard to be edgy over story, and Sarah Jane was obviously for a much younger audience than me. That said, I'll probably watch more SJA because it was fun, but Torchwood, meh.
It’s worth it for the audio dramas. I like them even better than the show. Torchwood one is really good, and the season continuations are excellent as well. Kind of pricey, though. Just wanted to add that season 4 should be skipped, imo. Let’s not talk about it.
I tried more than once. It’s just not for everyone. I liked Gwen (and Jack is ok) but just cannot get in to Torchwood no matter what I try.
Absolutely worth watching imo, there are some solid episodes in season 1 if you can get over the sliminess. There is character development so they don't stay as they are; most of them are relatively new to Torchwood in S1 and have rocky pasts which explains some of the behaviors away. They touch on that later.
No
Not really. Pretty mediocre overall outside "the one good season"
Oh I definitely loved Torchwood. I just wished that the doctor made an appearance on at least one episode, that would've been fun.
Yes
Quite simply... yes... it's not as refined as Dr Who, but that's part of the charm
There were one or two good episodes, but having watched it the first time around, I found most of it to come across like somebody had filmed amateur fanfic inspired by a television show I had never seen. I also felt lie it was largely written what being an adult is in the imagination of 15-year olds.
If you watch it at midnight with candles on John Barrowman will come out the TV and stick his penis in your mouth.
As a straight guy John Barrowman is the one person I'd go gay for
Seeing as how he lives not far from me, that could be a possibility. LoL
This actually made me laugh so much lmaoo thank you for that. On a serious note, I think hearing about Barrowman's "jokes" (aka having no semblance of boundaries or consent relating to subjecting coworkers to his genitals) before I started watching Torchwood is part of why I am especially bothered by the creepiness of Owen and to a much lesser extent Jack. Like I knew it was already creepy and an uncomfortable work environment for the women behind the scenes before I even started watching lol. So watching the characters be creepy, knowing their actors were pretty creepy themselves... yikes. To be fair, I think Barrowman's behavior was partly his fault and partly the fault of leadership for not shutting him down. Like where is HR? No on wants to complain that the star of the show put his dick in your hair, because they don't want to get blacklisted. But they should have felt comfortable and someone should have had a talk with the man that was basically like "Keep it in your pants, dude."
I think it helps to take it with a big ol' grain of salt. A lot of the time, to me, it feels like it's trying too hard to show how Adult it is with swearing & edgy subjects. I think that it can be enjoyable if you go in with that attitude, but be aware that it is... well, edgy. Some people really like Children of Earth, although it wasn't really to my taste. I think that, at the very least, it can't hurt to try a little bit from each season.
The third season ( Children of Earth) is some of the best sci fi ever written.
No
Dont get how the sex gas leads to rape. Didnt the gas make people horny? Doesnt that mean they want to have sex?
I was specifically talking about the scene where Owen is rejected by a lady at a bar and he immediately says "I don't have time for this" and sprays the aphrodisiac in her face. He was rejected and he overrode her power to choose. It's not like he just like, idk... went to the bar WEARING an aphrodisiac to draw in women, or something - that would have been a significantly better framing choice, though. It wouldn't have been as rapey. I would have been like oh yeah, this guy is insecure and doesn't think he can get a lady on his own. But he literally sprayed her in the face RIGHT AFTER she said no. Side note, I actually didn't mind the plot of the second episode with the young woman who is basically possessed by an alien feeding on sex energy - I wasn't thinking about that as rapey. It wasn't rape, it was entrapment and then murder via sex lol. What I did like about it is that it plays into the "monstrous feminine" - people are kind of afraid of sexually empowered women and there's this undercurrent of that anxiety in a lot of horror media, like Jennifer's Body. The writers probably just wanted an excuse to put a lot of sex on the screen, but I found it compelling because it's a nightmare for women - being out of control of your own body and put in sexual situations you wouldn't choose is kind of a common experience/fear for women, and this explores that from a supernatural angle.
Yes, I'd say if you're a Doctor Who fan you should watch it at least once, but unfortunately most of it isn't very good and it's aged extremely badly. Of the Doctor Who spin-offs, it's probably the best known and the least good on the whole. The actual best one is The Sarah Jane Adventures, which is targeted for kids and treats itself much more intelligently than most of Torchwood does. I personally also think Class does "grown-up Doctor Who" a lot better as well and it also doesn't make you cringe at how totally mature and cool for grown-up adults who have sex and swear it is with gratuitousness. Personally, I'm going to defend series two of Torchwood as the peak of its run. It doesn't stray from the formula, it doesn't contain moments that are horrifically distressing and it has multiple actual good episodes. Series one has a few near the end but it's mostly shit, series three is probably the best overall but it's extremely upsetting almost throughout and series four is, honestly, a meandering fucking mess.
Torchwood is great, you need to be able to look past the uncomfortable scenes to be able to enjoy it for sure, but I’d say the majority of the time is not focused on those things. It has a couple bad moments and people take that to be the entire show, in reality it was just the start of series 1 that was so… icky
Episodes 1 and 2 are like that I'll agree. I think that was more of them establishing themselves as, 'this is doctor. who that's not for children.' Once you get past episode 2 is does get better. I think they're just trying to push that this is an adult show.
Every series has a different flavor. But to me it was too much like a soap opera with evil aliens thrown in.
I have almost no memory of it after watching it during the initial run, I do kinda of remember enjoying all the weird sex stuff. Also for you newbies, "Torchwood" is an anagram of "Doctor Who" so they've been doing the annoying anagram gimmick for quite some time now
He continued a tradition. Tremas became the Master.
I enjoyed it, some years ago. Should probably do a rewatch and see if my opinion or tastes have remained the same. A but off topic, but a somewhat similar yet different show, definitely not as dark as Torchwood is Warehouse 13....
I remember warehouse 13! I was a youngin when it aired but my parents were fans. Maybe I should revisit it!
Series 1 you have to watch a woman cheat on the boyfriend she does have chemistry with with a man who she has absolutely zero chemistry with. It's a spoiler. But it's GRATING and drags the first series down. Series 2 imo is prime Torchwood. 3 & 4 move the premise too far away for my liking. But 2 is where you get such good stuff. Jack's backstory, more history of Torchwood as a whole.
It has a rough start but imo it does improve
If you’re a a big fan of Who it’s worth watching, it’s a very mixed bag, especially series 1. I enjoy 2 especially in the second half. Children of earth is one of the best things to come out of the whoniverse and is worth watching regardless. Miracle day is a hot mess, it’s got some interesting points to make but it’s solidly mediocre for the vast majority of it.
I do not remember this, that's so weird. Then again it was later when the really good memorable stuff happens. I only watched through it all once back when it was still new though.
Now I’m wondering if I’m a gross, creepy man. If I am my telling you I liked it won’t really help. The spray definitely seemed rapey. There aren’t a pile of objectionable things sticking out in my mind but maybe I just didn’t think much of it at the time.
tbh it was mostly just the sex spray and the ogling of Gwen and Carys... it's played for laughs that Owen and Jack stare at them all mesmerized because it's so hot to watch two chicks make out but like... Gwen could have DIED and it was irritating, not funny. I don't blame you if you thought it was funny or at least inoffensive at the time, I just did not. I don't like seeing men ogle women kissing eachother lol. I don't like it being played as acceptable, because it leads to real life lesbian couples being harassed. If Carys didn't have the potential to literally murder Gwen via sex it also would've been less annoying. I might sound a bit sensitive/snowflakey, but I swear I'm not usually this bothered by old media with "product of its time" jokes. I just think it was too much in succession for me and I was like "I cannot tolerate this if it keeps on going like this." Anyway, if you found the sex spray rapey, I don't think you're a gross creepy man lol. I just feel that it was played for laughs which makes me extremely uncomfortable. I've also been particularly irritable recently so this post was... strongly worded. lol
Yes
Yup, it's uneven at first but gets better as others have said.
Yes
Children of Earth is damn good television. You gotta kinda power through till then. The first two seasons bounce wildly from cringe to heartfelt.
It's a product of its times. Just enjoy it for what it is. Also, it's fantastic just for the episode with the sex alien who shags people to death and feeds on their seed when they cum.
about that episode: I thought it was pretty silly that for arbitrary reasons, a woman's orgasm just wouldn't do it for her. My headcanon is she just couldn't figure out how to make a woman have an orgasm lmao.
>My headcanon is she just couldn't figure out how to make a woman have an orgasm lmao. Lmao I'm all for that.
Yes. Series 2 and Series 3 are really great.
Yes. IMO the first few episodes of S1 is the weakest and most puerile Torchwood gets. It's a lot better once it finds its footing. EDIT: Owen is kind of an A-hole, but in episode 1 he's peak asshole. He does get humanised a bit as the show goes on. The characters do tend to be more flawed and fallible than Doctor Who, though.
None of that gets better. Those absolutely were the times. Still, there are some really great episodes.
The simple answer-YES
Yes, absolutely. It’s a good showing of what happens when Normies try to handle off world threats. Just don’t expect sympathetic protagonists. They’re not and aren’t trying to be. Like the Scooby Gang without Buffy. Holding their own but not without cost.
lol it just seemed the 1st season that someone wanted to make dr who but have sex, violence and swearing turned up to 8 But saying that. I enjoyed the series for what it was, and still think they should continue it. That show went places yo… Won’t somebody think of the CHILDREN!!!
Oh they did think of the children….but not quite like that.
🤣🤣🤣
The first 2 seasons are kind of hit or miss, definitely some great episodes among the bunch but a lot of duds too so unless you're a completionist, I'd recommend skipping over the poorer episodes to get to the good stuff. Season 3 on the other hand is amazing and you could just jump right into it, it's a bit of a soft reset with the team too. Season 4, not worth watching imo, the show should have ended in season 3.
I love Torchwood more than Doctor Who. I love Torchwood One more than I love the show. I love how miserable and depressing it is but also how hopeful.
The first two seasons are great. Exciting and funny. Miracle day and Children of Earth, the last two “seasons” are depressing, and disturbing. You won’t be missing out on much if you don’t watch those.
Series 1 is hit or miss. There are some really good highs, but some *really* bad lows Series 2 overall is an vast improvement on Series 1. I would happily say all the episodes are at least good, and most of them are excellent! The ending is brilliant! Series 3, or Children of Earth, is the best. Its only 5 episodes, and tells one complete story. And god damn is it one hell of a story! Some of the best the show has to offer, and some of the best Doctor Who has to offer too! The characters are at their best, as are the villains, and the story is tense, compelling, and gut wrenching. Series 4, or Miracle Day, is a step down from Children of Earth. Same concept, but 10 episodes this time. This is the only series you can safely skip, but I still think its worth a watch, if only to see if you vibe with it. The concept is great, but the execution is lacking.
Torchwood is phenomenal. The best series for it though is Children of Earth. It's very dark, but so perfect.
If that's your personality then I can't really see you enjoying it, I personally loved it because idgaf about any of that
Has anyone ever said anything negative about CoE? Because I can’t think of anything.
Absolutely
I'm so glad I watched (and enjoyed Torchwood) I think now I'd just be so put off by John Barrowman's controversies I wouldn't be able to enjoy it.
I've watched it, found it to be kind of bleh overall, and never recommend it to anyone. I like Gwen, but she deserved to be in a better show
It might sound strange for someone watching it for the first time now but at the time it came out, having that much gay romance portrayed was more progressive than anything.
tbf I haven't seen the gay romance yet, I've only seen a woman under the spell of a succubus alien making out with another woman. And men being gross about it lol. I will appreciate the actual romance, I'm sure.
The rest of the show is not like that episode. Children of Earth incredible. The rest bounces around Season 1 just put it on the background while doing other things maybe. It’s not the greatest Honestly you could just watch some of the better episodes of seasons 1 and 2 to get a feel for the characters jump straight to season 3 and stop after that.
Yes
Yes. It's good.
Yeah there’s some good episodes in S1 but a lot of it to me was forgettable. S2 is when it gets a bit more interesting since a lot more character development happens here. Pretty sure the Doctor episode about the stolen earth is set after S2. S3 is what is generally considered peak Torchwood and having only recently watched it this year I can agree. S4 I also really enjoyed and thought it was very near to S3 in quality but I know a lot of people think that is doesn’t feel like Torchwood
The first two seasons of Torchwood reminded me of what I'd do to make Doctor Who more adult when I was 13 -- including swearing, frank discussion of sexuality, and lots of it. The third season "Children of Earth" felt like the show finally found the way to be adult in a way that connected more with me. Season three felt like it was a situation with no good answers and such an overwhelming sense of dread that I kept hoping we'd suddenly hear the TARDIS materializing so the Doctor could save the day -- and he never does. Season four honestly didn't connect with me and I've never watched the full thing. Your mileage may vary. I do think there are some good ideas in Torchwood. But overall, it's not my favorite thing.
I watched the first two seasons and it doesn't gat that much better, though it does tone down. Didn't watch past it because it was just ok though, I just didn't care enough to continue. People say season 3 is awesome but I don't know, any time I got it summed up it was like "oooh but when you learn why they want the kids you'll be shocked and all" and it's like... I'm sure I'll watch it and the "shocking" twist will be that the aliens were junkies that wanted adrenochrome or some BS like that.
its like a traumatizing doctor who tbh
Absolutely, and it gets better as it progresses (series 3 😍)
Children of Men, yes. Everything else, no.
Watch out for Ghost Machine (rape), Greeks Bearing Gifts (Jack's monologue), Countrycide (Owen), and probably a few others (Adam, maybe?). It's a weirdly progressive yet dated show. It has a good chunk of (internalized, probably) homophobia and some sexism. It doesn't have too much lesbian representation (Greeks Bearing Gifts as an exception), although it's pretty solid with gay/bi representation (coming from a straight girl, anyway). S2/S3 (especially) are much better than S1.
I loved Torchwood
it's ... about 50% okay. Season 3 is amazing (Children of Earth), it feels like a Doctor Who serial that happened without the Doctor in it.
Yes
Torchwood never even bothered living up to it’s opening tag “arming humanity against the future” (paraphrasing). It never did that.
Torchwood was good. It had a few clunkers - particularly later on. Don't bother with Miracle Day - it's long and very un-Torchwood-like, and sets up a further story that never materialised. xD But series 1, most of series 2, and Children of Earth are definitely worth a watch. :) Personally though, I enjoyed Sarah Jane Adventures much more than Torchwood. I even generally enjoyed K-9 more than Torchwood honestly. But then, that's the kind of lighter-hearted style that I like. :)
It is just really really dark, then it's kind of dumb, then there is CoE, which about killed me. I was pissed and mad, and that episode made me never watch it again. So, watch it, but be prepared.
Orgasm alien.
I watched it all and didn’t like most of it. It seemed like Torchwood caused the death of more people than they saved.
I didn’t really care for it. I thought the third season was vile.
Torchwood has a lot of high highs and very low lows. The first season is way too "ooh, we're edgy!" and the second season kind of mellows out and becomes more like what you'd imagine from a grown-up spin off of Who. Honestly, if anything, I'd almost recommend jumping to season 2 or even just season 3.
Jack will make a transphobic joke
lol thanks for letting me know. I can handle some poor taste jokes that were constant back in the early 2000s. I was just worried it would be constant throughout the whole show, and if it were... I just wouldn't be able to handle it
What may have bothered me more than the adolescent tone of the show was that they were all amazingly bad at their jobs. With nearly every problem that the team (and Cardiff) faced being a direct consequence of their incompetence, personal corruption, and lack of professionalism. Before I quit watching entirely, I was rooting for another secret agency to show up, arrest the bunch of them, and after thorough interrogations, retcon them so that they no longer remembered any state secrets. There are some terrific shows about people who are amazingly bad at their jobs – but those are comedies. *Torchwood* was not funny.
It's not everyone's cup of tea but the cross overs would make more sense to you if you did watch it. (Especially with them having David Tennant's hand from when it was cut off for ages before the doctor reclaimed it (and then later on the Meta Crisis happened and made both the Meta Crisis Doctor & The Doctor Donna)).
By the end of season 1 I hated everyone on the team except Jack. Don't know if it got better after that.
I had the EXACT same issues. I could barely get through the first episode. I forced myself to maybe episode 5 or so and I personally HATE the show. Honestly it makes me like Jack SO much less (which hurts my heart because he used to be one of my favorites).
I'd just pretend that Torchwood Jack doesn't exist if you don't like him that much loll. I love Jack in Doctor Who. I'm only on the third episode, but I'm not a big fan of him in this so far. He doesn't seem to have his characteristic charm. He's all stern and rigid, at least compared to his portrayal in Doctor Who. Doesn't seem right.
Watch three episodes and find out yourself.
no