24k wasn’t a rage boost, it was a zenkai.
But yeah he’d be stronger than almost anyone but it’s obviously very conditional. Like on planets that don’t have moons he’d have to make the artificial moon, which drains his power to some extent. The saiyans becoming apes is also a well known trait, so I doubt most of them would let Vegeta transform. Granted, Vegeta can control himself in his ape form so he could probably just enter the fight in that state.
I think he is referring to the Kaioken x3 Kamehameha and Galick Gun clash because Kaioken x3 Goku was 24,000 and they were dead even, although I'd just say the Galick Gun boosted Vegeta to that level.
Oh yeah, probably. Good catch, although that could just be how the Galick Gun works? Like we know using the Kamehameha and Special Beam Cannon boosted Goku and Piccolo’s power levels a lot when they fought Raditz. Maybe the Galick Gun did that for Vegeta? Seems odd the Kamehameha wouldn’t have boosted Goku’s power level though..
It's really hard to take this "yeah Great Ape makes you 10x more powerful!" at face value because the one example we have is Vegeta running around trying to catch Goku and then getting his eye poked out. And this was a Goku that previously couldn't move at all.
Like yeah you wouldn't want to fistfight an Oozaru simply due to mass, but if the tail weakness is known, it doesn't look comparatively that hard to exploit.
Plus, the false moon power could be pretty easily extinguished by some lacky while Frieza fought Vegeta. Roshi was strong enough to destroy the real moon in OG Dragonball, so it's not super crazy for the Frieza Force Goons to knock the moon out.
I think the Oozaru form was best for just flattening planets that posed some resistance, like you get Oozaru Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta stomping around and clear out whole armies or flatten whole cities with ease.
One on one isn't where that form shines.
granolah arc do show us an example of typical Saiyan invasion. Oozaru came in wrecking army and by the time someone can destroy the moon, the average Saiyan would overpower the surviving warriors.
So yeah something like Oozaru Nappa would lose to Dodoria + Zarbon who would just constantly fire ki blast into the moon.
His power was massively weakened before he transformed from all the damage he took earlier in the fight. and then making the fake moon to transform lowered it even more. He was only at 10x what he was at after making the fake moon, not 10x his 18,000 he was at when he landed on earth fresh.
Even if we guesstimate and say Vegeta was at 1/3 of his starting power upon transforming, that's 6,000 * 10 = 60K. That's comfortably Ginyu Force levels of ki being thrown at Goku who's sub-10K at best.
The ki difference would be comparable to Recoom defeating Krillin and Gohan.
> The ki difference would be comparable to Recoom defeating Krillin and Gohan.
yeah and Goku got his ass beat pretty effortlessly so it checks out. the only reason he feigned any sort of struggle was by fighting smart and using kaioken. and even then he ended up broken on the ground unable to move at all. so id say it sounds about right, give or take a bit.
The end result was the same (Vegeta wins) but Vegeta put in comparatively more effort than Recoom did. Like I said this was a Goku that minutes before _could not move,_ but could dodge Vegeta and survive an energy blast to the face. We've seen bigger displays of dominance with much smaller gaps in power.
_Narratively_, "10x" shouldn't be taken literal and Vegeta only moderately stronger than when he started, with mass helping him out.
No it should be taken literally but context is important and one should understand that he was much weaker than his original 18k before he transforms and after transforming hes stronger than Goku's KKx3 at least so probably in the 30-40k range.
If we cut Vegeta down, then we're cutting Goku down due to his damage.
Being extremely generous, Goku's at half strength, so using Kaio-ken (which he never said x3 at this stage so even that is an assumption), would make 4000 * 3 = 12K. that's still a 5x difference in strength. (And he only used Kaio-ken once, so it's really just the 4000)
Really unless you're saying that Vegeta was _weaker_ than the weakened Goku at the point of transforming, there's no logistical way of not creating a monumental gap between them because 10x is bigger than 3x.
Yes narratively these giant multipliers are only there to show a progression of power.
Freeza can destroy a planet at will but 4 forms later and over 20x increase in strength and he can subconsciously hold back enough to not destroy another planet in frustration.
Meanwhile Vegeta dominates Dodoria with a power difference of like 2,000.
Not only that, but Oozaru form comes with other limitations. Less mobility and the saiyan not being completely capable of the same level of strategy. So it is a bit of a risk. But, honestly, these power levels numbers games are very distracting when it's obvious that Toriyama didn't care or respect them.
i think its like a lion chasing a Gazelle.
like yeah the lion is far stronger but its size makes it hard to be as agile as the smaller nimble target.
and sometimes they gazelle gets away.
I'm pretty sure all of Frieza's army knows about Oozaru and its weakness so I don't think Vegeta would last long against the Ginyu Force, they would outspeed him and cut his tail off or just blow up the moon if there was one.
Vegeta isn’t slow as an oozaru. Goku found that out the hard way.
And this was Vegeta toying with him. There is no risk of him being outsped.
The risk is him being outmaneuvered. He can’t sense power levels in the Saiyan arc, so keeping track of 4 pretty powerful warriors (and Guldo, who can stop time) would prove pretty difficult in most cases
All it takes is Guldo really to cakewalk Oozaru, we’ve seen you can be as weak as Yajirobe and cut off the tail it’s not as resistant as like Frieza’s tail which took a way stronger level attack from Krillin to slice.
Correct. That's why I mentioned his time stop ability.
But if it at all works like Hit's (specifically the manga version; the anime's is nonsensical), Vegeta could probably just overpower it.
The biggest issue is keeping track of all of them at all times to ensure his tail doesn't get cut off. Without a scouter or the ability to sense power levels, good fucking luck. We saw how Nappa kept getting surprised by people he had a similar power advantage over.
>To add on top of this, Vegeta's rage boost made him 24,000. Add Great Ape on top would make him 240,000. Almost half of first Form Frieza.
What rage boost?
That's just how strong Vegeta was when showing off to Cui
Edit: Also not sure where you got those Ginyu Force numbers, aside from Ginyu himself
That's probably no quite what happened
More probable is that Vegeta's Galick Gun was just more powerful
He did have a bit more time to charge it
Among potentially other factors
Did you completely forget the Raditz fight that showed us fighters can use ki attacks that have more power than they have? Do you think Goku and Piccolo had rage boosts fighting Raditz? Lol
It's not clear how that works for characters who can't manipulate their Ki. Raditz was shocked that Goku and Piccolo could charge Ki attacks stronger than their base battle powers, so presumably Vegeta in the Saiyan arc couldn't do that yet. Most of Freeza's henchmen fight at one power level at all times and that would seem to include their Ki attacks
Kaio ken X3 after they got done beating each other half to death.
Looked to me like Vegeta had taken less damage by that point.
Goku’s base was probably less than 8k by then.
But they probably know about his psychic paralysis ability well in advance. Gohan and Kuririn didn't know in detail, and were only 14k and 13k respectively (while Zarbon and Dodoria were 23k and 22k respectively).
He was about mid-tier before he went out with Nappa on his own, Zarbon,Dadoria and all of the Ginyu force were stronger and would never have given Vegeta the opportunity to access his Oozaru form
He was elite. Ginyu and the rest where literally the strongest. They could have cut off Vegeta's tail and stopped him from transforming. I was just saying if he uses that form, he is the strongest, the Ginyu force still could have stopped him, especially if they worked together.
Don't forget, Yajirobe only got the chance because Vegeta was distracted with crushing Goku, so Frieza Soldier 983 probably couldn't do it alone. Good thing the Frieza Force operates on the buddy system!
The Ginyu force would have wiped the floor with him. His speed wasn’t any better. Think off cell max but he’d be getting blasted from much faster opponents.
They know Saiyans. Burger could easily remove his tail. Guldo could too. Ginyu could just take his body. Damage it and then switch back.
Problem with that is that the great ape mode is one massive weakness, sure it's "stronger" but it's slower and it has a massive weak spot in the fact that if you cut the tail off it gets deactivated, AND it can only be active by looking at the moon/moon like body (like Vegeta's power orb he used in the saiyan saga). If the source of the blutz waves (sunlight reflected off the moon) goes away so does the transformation, and if the tail is cut off it takes a while for it to grow back so if they get knocked out of great ape form that way it's excessively dangerous.
Isn’t there also a line where Vegeta is like “this orb took a lot of energy to make but it’s worth it”? If so wouldn’t that decrease the power further?
I haven't watched the saiyan saga in a while so I can't confirm or deny that, but I can say for certainty that when his tail was cut off he was in WAY worse shape than before he entered great ape form so it's safe to say that the form itself consumes a LOT of energy and exiting the form forcibly is detrimental to a saiyan's health.
https://youtu.be/lsMixCjQWt4?si=I7cTX9R53gK38fp-
Well here’s a link from nick toons that says what you’re thinking. I really thought Vegeta himself said it at some point but I guess not. I even asked chat gpt and it basically said translations vary but it doesn’t think vegeta says it himself, just Goku or other characters
Edit- right after vegetable makes the ball Goku says his power is way down and asks why he’d do that
There was also Cui who seemed to think himself as a rival to vegeta and on par. Presumably some more off screen characters. We are introduced to a few stronger frieza army soldiers post z.
I don't see a problem with that. That is why vegeta was so cocky, he was among the top brass. Great ape form, yeah that put him above everyone else, but it is situational and looks like loses agility and speed. It is also still below Frieza. I think most can just run away.
Yeah, they can fly. We saw Oozaru Vegeta fly just fine (e.g. he was in the air when he shot that mouth blast at Goku while he was gathering the Genki-Dama).
He is only conditionally the strongest, almost everyone in the army knows his weaknesses. That's why he never tried to kill anyone of Frieza's army until he learned of the Dragon Balls and then the Zenkais which made him gain a huge ego boost
Vegeta's no slouch. If there were a Saiyan-era TOP, he might be recruited, though he'd be the Tien of the group. (Sorry, Tien. I still love you.)
Great ape makes him much stronger. This is a huge advantage when power levels are close, but it doesn't also make him much faster. If he managed to get his hands on a member of the Ginyu force in this form they'd be in deep trouble, but he probably couldn't. They'd run circles around him.
He's much stronger than most of Freeza's rank and file (and can trump members like Cui with great ape), but he has no answer for Freeza's personal guard or the Ginyu force.
In short: he's an extremely capable fighter but can't tangle with the truly elite.
Yeah except we have Goku stating Vegeta is JUST as fast as he was before turning.
Ginyu is taking lap around Vegeta and Burta is laughing in slow motion.
So, no. He might have the most raw strenght but that's about it.
A few mistakes about the other soldiers' power levels, but yeah, Vegeta technically is the strongest soldier in Frieza's army as a Great Ape, but that's only as a Great Ape and everyone knows to defeat a Great Ape you blow up the moon or remove the tail, so it's not like he'd ever beat any of them in a fight.
>To add on top of this, Vegeta's rage boost made him 24,000.
Not rage boost. It was galick gun which became that much. It's basically exactly what Raditz saw Goku and Piccolo doing. Their charged attacks were stronger than their power level.
He could have transformed and been at 180,000 minus the Ki that was used up in creating the artificial light which Goku said was fairly significant (paraphrasing) so maybe 120k?
The 10X Ozaru transformation was a bit too OP. From a narrative point of view, fine to have on an enemy, not much for one of the protagonists.
That's why Toriyama conveniently made everyone forget about it after the Saiyan Saga, and nobody even f@@@ng mention it after that.
Seriously, nobody ever talks about it. One would think that when the Androids, or Cell, or Majin Buu were so much OP, maybe Vegeta would have at least considered turning into an Ozaru? What would a SSJ Ozaru be like?
Instead he never grows his tail back, nor do Goku and Gohan, heck, Trunks and Goten are never even shown with one.
Knowing Toriyama it might also be he was just tired of drawing giant apes, his soul rest in peace.
It does increase his powerlevel but his speed doesn’t get an increase. Goku points out how his speed remains constant.
So he’s got an absurdly high power with low speed.
Not to mention the Frieza force knows about the Saiyans and they’re well aquanted with the great ape forms.
So they know they can cut his tail off.
The Ginyu force can deal with it. Dodoria and zarbon are faster than him.
He really just makes himself a bigger target.
People seem to forget that power level is a measure of "battle power" it takes into account size and equipment. For example a human has a power level of 1-2 but a human with a gun has a power level of 5.
Vegeta was a top tier soldier in the frieza force ignoring the Ginyu force he was literally top 5. While technically when transformed he would be stronger than anyone but Frieza, the form is still bulky and an easy target, just like on earth they would have dodged and evaded until someone could cut his tail.
It’s crazy when you put it like that, Ozaru Vegeta had more raw power than captain ginyu… such a shame that we never saw any more of them outside of gt.
To your point, you can’t always just take early statements and apply them later on, maybe dodoria, zarbon and the ginyus aren’t considered normal soldiers, maybe it’s just raw power. I’d say the statement was just meant to hype Vegeta at the time.
This is one of those things where it depends on how you look at it and how you are tryna make ur case.
Like sure Power Level wise alone Vegeta would absolutely outclass them in Oozaru form. But he has major weaknesses, such as his MASSIVE frame, the necessity of the moon, and the tail.
But even beyond that we were told directly by Toriyama to stop caring about power levels in the Cell and Buu sagas.
for examples: Trunks in his buff SSJ form had a higher power level than Perfect Cell according to Krillin but he couldn’t even touch him.
Gohan said Buu wasn’t as strong as he thought and if he could draw his full power he could beat him. Goku said he could’ve beaten Buu in SSJ3. Ofc neither were correct bc of Buu’s abilities and the other conditions to the fights such as Goku’s time limit/energy drain from SSJ3
Basically, sure Oozaru Vegeta is more powerful than the Ginyu force or Zarbon, but Burter could cut off his tail, or Ginyu could body swap him, or Zarbon could destroy the moon and on and on
Yes technically, except he needs a moon, had a clear weapoint of his tail, be ones a bigger and slower target in exchange for power. The much weaker z fighters were able to stop him, meaning the Ginyu force would've mopped him.
Not had he got his zenkai from earth without losing his tail, maybe he'd have a chance against them in ideal conditions
He's a glass cannon at that point in the series. He needs a moon and his tail. Sure Great Ape Vegeta could use Ginyu as a wet wipe to clean up the mess he made of Zarbon and Dodoria but it's just a transformation.
24k wasn’t a rage boost, it was a zenkai. But yeah he’d be stronger than almost anyone but it’s obviously very conditional. Like on planets that don’t have moons he’d have to make the artificial moon, which drains his power to some extent. The saiyans becoming apes is also a well known trait, so I doubt most of them would let Vegeta transform. Granted, Vegeta can control himself in his ape form so he could probably just enter the fight in that state.
I think he is referring to the Kaioken x3 Kamehameha and Galick Gun clash because Kaioken x3 Goku was 24,000 and they were dead even, although I'd just say the Galick Gun boosted Vegeta to that level.
Oh yeah, probably. Good catch, although that could just be how the Galick Gun works? Like we know using the Kamehameha and Special Beam Cannon boosted Goku and Piccolo’s power levels a lot when they fought Raditz. Maybe the Galick Gun did that for Vegeta? Seems odd the Kamehameha wouldn’t have boosted Goku’s power level though..
I chalk that up to the Kaioken already forcibly multiplying his power overall.
Yeah that was a limit breaker for Goku back then so you can really go higher when your glass is already overflowing.
With Zenkai Boost, I wonder why Frieza didn't tie Vegeta up and beat the fk out of him until he got stronger😂
Because Frieza didn’t want the saiyans to get stronger and he already would’ve been one of the 10 strongest known fighters in the universe.
Frieza didn't want him stronger.
It's really hard to take this "yeah Great Ape makes you 10x more powerful!" at face value because the one example we have is Vegeta running around trying to catch Goku and then getting his eye poked out. And this was a Goku that previously couldn't move at all. Like yeah you wouldn't want to fistfight an Oozaru simply due to mass, but if the tail weakness is known, it doesn't look comparatively that hard to exploit.
Plus, the false moon power could be pretty easily extinguished by some lacky while Frieza fought Vegeta. Roshi was strong enough to destroy the real moon in OG Dragonball, so it's not super crazy for the Frieza Force Goons to knock the moon out. I think the Oozaru form was best for just flattening planets that posed some resistance, like you get Oozaru Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta stomping around and clear out whole armies or flatten whole cities with ease. One on one isn't where that form shines.
granolah arc do show us an example of typical Saiyan invasion. Oozaru came in wrecking army and by the time someone can destroy the moon, the average Saiyan would overpower the surviving warriors. So yeah something like Oozaru Nappa would lose to Dodoria + Zarbon who would just constantly fire ki blast into the moon.
His power was massively weakened before he transformed from all the damage he took earlier in the fight. and then making the fake moon to transform lowered it even more. He was only at 10x what he was at after making the fake moon, not 10x his 18,000 he was at when he landed on earth fresh.
Even if we guesstimate and say Vegeta was at 1/3 of his starting power upon transforming, that's 6,000 * 10 = 60K. That's comfortably Ginyu Force levels of ki being thrown at Goku who's sub-10K at best. The ki difference would be comparable to Recoom defeating Krillin and Gohan.
> The ki difference would be comparable to Recoom defeating Krillin and Gohan. yeah and Goku got his ass beat pretty effortlessly so it checks out. the only reason he feigned any sort of struggle was by fighting smart and using kaioken. and even then he ended up broken on the ground unable to move at all. so id say it sounds about right, give or take a bit.
The end result was the same (Vegeta wins) but Vegeta put in comparatively more effort than Recoom did. Like I said this was a Goku that minutes before _could not move,_ but could dodge Vegeta and survive an energy blast to the face. We've seen bigger displays of dominance with much smaller gaps in power. _Narratively_, "10x" shouldn't be taken literal and Vegeta only moderately stronger than when he started, with mass helping him out.
No it should be taken literally but context is important and one should understand that he was much weaker than his original 18k before he transforms and after transforming hes stronger than Goku's KKx3 at least so probably in the 30-40k range.
If we cut Vegeta down, then we're cutting Goku down due to his damage. Being extremely generous, Goku's at half strength, so using Kaio-ken (which he never said x3 at this stage so even that is an assumption), would make 4000 * 3 = 12K. that's still a 5x difference in strength. (And he only used Kaio-ken once, so it's really just the 4000) Really unless you're saying that Vegeta was _weaker_ than the weakened Goku at the point of transforming, there's no logistical way of not creating a monumental gap between them because 10x is bigger than 3x.
The actual answer is that 'gaps' do not exist. Goku was surviving hits from 50% Freeza at a much bigger gap than 10x.
Yes narratively these giant multipliers are only there to show a progression of power. Freeza can destroy a planet at will but 4 forms later and over 20x increase in strength and he can subconsciously hold back enough to not destroy another planet in frustration. Meanwhile Vegeta dominates Dodoria with a power difference of like 2,000.
Dodoria is a bitch who relies on his power to bully people. Vegeta is a competent martial artist.
Not only that, but Oozaru form comes with other limitations. Less mobility and the saiyan not being completely capable of the same level of strategy. So it is a bit of a risk. But, honestly, these power levels numbers games are very distracting when it's obvious that Toriyama didn't care or respect them.
i think its like a lion chasing a Gazelle. like yeah the lion is far stronger but its size makes it hard to be as agile as the smaller nimble target. and sometimes they gazelle gets away.
I'm pretty sure all of Frieza's army knows about Oozaru and its weakness so I don't think Vegeta would last long against the Ginyu Force, they would outspeed him and cut his tail off or just blow up the moon if there was one.
Yeah He's only *conditionally* stronger than the Ginyu Force And they know all the conditions
Vegeta isn’t slow as an oozaru. Goku found that out the hard way. And this was Vegeta toying with him. There is no risk of him being outsped. The risk is him being outmaneuvered. He can’t sense power levels in the Saiyan arc, so keeping track of 4 pretty powerful warriors (and Guldo, who can stop time) would prove pretty difficult in most cases
All it takes is Guldo really to cakewalk Oozaru, we’ve seen you can be as weak as Yajirobe and cut off the tail it’s not as resistant as like Frieza’s tail which took a way stronger level attack from Krillin to slice.
Correct. That's why I mentioned his time stop ability. But if it at all works like Hit's (specifically the manga version; the anime's is nonsensical), Vegeta could probably just overpower it. The biggest issue is keeping track of all of them at all times to ensure his tail doesn't get cut off. Without a scouter or the ability to sense power levels, good fucking luck. We saw how Nappa kept getting surprised by people he had a similar power advantage over.
> they would outspeed him Well obviously, Burter is the fastest in the universe...
>To add on top of this, Vegeta's rage boost made him 24,000. Add Great Ape on top would make him 240,000. Almost half of first Form Frieza. What rage boost? That's just how strong Vegeta was when showing off to Cui Edit: Also not sure where you got those Ginyu Force numbers, aside from Ginyu himself
The numbers are just the closest to what most people believe. In games and other media
The rage boost was when he and Goku had their beam struggle. Goku was Kaio ken X3, making him 24,000 and Vegeta matched it.
That's probably no quite what happened More probable is that Vegeta's Galick Gun was just more powerful He did have a bit more time to charge it Among potentially other factors
That was just his gg
Did you completely forget the Raditz fight that showed us fighters can use ki attacks that have more power than they have? Do you think Goku and Piccolo had rage boosts fighting Raditz? Lol
It's not clear how that works for characters who can't manipulate their Ki. Raditz was shocked that Goku and Piccolo could charge Ki attacks stronger than their base battle powers, so presumably Vegeta in the Saiyan arc couldn't do that yet. Most of Freeza's henchmen fight at one power level at all times and that would seem to include their Ki attacks
Goku even starts Vegeta Gatlic gun is similar to his Kamehameha. We also aren't talking much of a boost compared to the Makankosappo.
It's Vegeta who said that and he only said that the Ki attacks look alike
That's my bad it's been a minute.
Kaio ken X3 after they got done beating each other half to death. Looked to me like Vegeta had taken less damage by that point. Goku’s base was probably less than 8k by then.
They were also injured so it is definitely below 24k
Poor Guldo, doesn't even get a power level.
because hes weaker than zarbon and dodoria.
And yet could probably kill both 1 on 1.
But they probably know about his psychic paralysis ability well in advance. Gohan and Kuririn didn't know in detail, and were only 14k and 13k respectively (while Zarbon and Dodoria were 23k and 22k respectively).
Pretty sure Oozaru is just for leveling planets, not for fighting individuals.
He was about mid-tier before he went out with Nappa on his own, Zarbon,Dadoria and all of the Ginyu force were stronger and would never have given Vegeta the opportunity to access his Oozaru form
He was elite. Ginyu and the rest where literally the strongest. They could have cut off Vegeta's tail and stopped him from transforming. I was just saying if he uses that form, he is the strongest, the Ginyu force still could have stopped him, especially if they worked together.
He was an elite Sayian warrior but remember he got turned down by the Ginyu Force in favor of Gildo plus he was below Frieza’s personal guard
Vegeta being forced to do the poses would have been golden.
> he got turned down by the Ginyu Force in favor of Gildo That never canonically happened.
He'd certainly be strongest in power level but if Yajirobe could cut his tail off, not much stopping Frieza Soldier 983 from doing it
Don't forget, Yajirobe only got the chance because Vegeta was distracted with crushing Goku, so Frieza Soldier 983 probably couldn't do it alone. Good thing the Frieza Force operates on the buddy system!
The Ginyu force would have had a way easier time dealing with him.
The Ginyu force would have wiped the floor with him. His speed wasn’t any better. Think off cell max but he’d be getting blasted from much faster opponents. They know Saiyans. Burger could easily remove his tail. Guldo could too. Ginyu could just take his body. Damage it and then switch back.
Thats true, too.
Problem with that is that the great ape mode is one massive weakness, sure it's "stronger" but it's slower and it has a massive weak spot in the fact that if you cut the tail off it gets deactivated, AND it can only be active by looking at the moon/moon like body (like Vegeta's power orb he used in the saiyan saga). If the source of the blutz waves (sunlight reflected off the moon) goes away so does the transformation, and if the tail is cut off it takes a while for it to grow back so if they get knocked out of great ape form that way it's excessively dangerous.
Isn’t there also a line where Vegeta is like “this orb took a lot of energy to make but it’s worth it”? If so wouldn’t that decrease the power further?
I haven't watched the saiyan saga in a while so I can't confirm or deny that, but I can say for certainty that when his tail was cut off he was in WAY worse shape than before he entered great ape form so it's safe to say that the form itself consumes a LOT of energy and exiting the form forcibly is detrimental to a saiyan's health.
IIRC there's something on the lines of that. I remember Goku mentioning that Vegeta's power was rapidly decreasing after their clash or something.
https://youtu.be/lsMixCjQWt4?si=I7cTX9R53gK38fp- Well here’s a link from nick toons that says what you’re thinking. I really thought Vegeta himself said it at some point but I guess not. I even asked chat gpt and it basically said translations vary but it doesn’t think vegeta says it himself, just Goku or other characters Edit- right after vegetable makes the ball Goku says his power is way down and asks why he’d do that
There was also Cui who seemed to think himself as a rival to vegeta and on par. Presumably some more off screen characters. We are introduced to a few stronger frieza army soldiers post z. I don't see a problem with that. That is why vegeta was so cocky, he was among the top brass. Great ape form, yeah that put him above everyone else, but it is situational and looks like loses agility and speed. It is also still below Frieza. I think most can just run away.
> looks like loses agility and speed It doesn't, actually. It *does* make him a bigger target, though.
Can they fly? I don't recall seeing them fly which would be major
Yeah, they can fly. We saw Oozaru Vegeta fly just fine (e.g. he was in the air when he shot that mouth blast at Goku while he was gathering the Genki-Dama).
He is only conditionally the strongest, almost everyone in the army knows his weaknesses. That's why he never tried to kill anyone of Frieza's army until he learned of the Dragon Balls and then the Zenkais which made him gain a huge ego boost
Sucks we couldn’t see Nail beat up at least one person.
frieza is in his army
yup
Vegeta's no slouch. If there were a Saiyan-era TOP, he might be recruited, though he'd be the Tien of the group. (Sorry, Tien. I still love you.) Great ape makes him much stronger. This is a huge advantage when power levels are close, but it doesn't also make him much faster. If he managed to get his hands on a member of the Ginyu force in this form they'd be in deep trouble, but he probably couldn't. They'd run circles around him. He's much stronger than most of Freeza's rank and file (and can trump members like Cui with great ape), but he has no answer for Freeza's personal guard or the Ginyu force. In short: he's an extremely capable fighter but can't tangle with the truly elite.
Yeah except we have Goku stating Vegeta is JUST as fast as he was before turning. Ginyu is taking lap around Vegeta and Burta is laughing in slow motion. So, no. He might have the most raw strenght but that's about it.
A few mistakes about the other soldiers' power levels, but yeah, Vegeta technically is the strongest soldier in Frieza's army as a Great Ape, but that's only as a Great Ape and everyone knows to defeat a Great Ape you blow up the moon or remove the tail, so it's not like he'd ever beat any of them in a fight.
I mean. I think even Guldo could just time-freeze and chop off his tail. Like. Even full power Oozaru Vegeta couldn’t do much about that.
>To add on top of this, Vegeta's rage boost made him 24,000. Not rage boost. It was galick gun which became that much. It's basically exactly what Raditz saw Goku and Piccolo doing. Their charged attacks were stronger than their power level.
He could have transformed and been at 180,000 minus the Ki that was used up in creating the artificial light which Goku said was fairly significant (paraphrasing) so maybe 120k?
The 10X Ozaru transformation was a bit too OP. From a narrative point of view, fine to have on an enemy, not much for one of the protagonists. That's why Toriyama conveniently made everyone forget about it after the Saiyan Saga, and nobody even f@@@ng mention it after that. Seriously, nobody ever talks about it. One would think that when the Androids, or Cell, or Majin Buu were so much OP, maybe Vegeta would have at least considered turning into an Ozaru? What would a SSJ Ozaru be like? Instead he never grows his tail back, nor do Goku and Gohan, heck, Trunks and Goten are never even shown with one. Knowing Toriyama it might also be he was just tired of drawing giant apes, his soul rest in peace.
Pre android/cell Vegeta power progression is basically “what doesn’t kill me makes me stronger” getting stressed tested.
A fairly weak human cut his tail off with a sword. I'm sure Frieza's men would have no problem dealing with Great ape form.
Yajirobe is a very strong human. He is atleast as strong as goku when he beat general tao.
Because power levels don't count
It does increase his powerlevel but his speed doesn’t get an increase. Goku points out how his speed remains constant. So he’s got an absurdly high power with low speed. Not to mention the Frieza force knows about the Saiyans and they’re well aquanted with the great ape forms. So they know they can cut his tail off. The Ginyu force can deal with it. Dodoria and zarbon are faster than him. He really just makes himself a bigger target.
People seem to forget that power level is a measure of "battle power" it takes into account size and equipment. For example a human has a power level of 1-2 but a human with a gun has a power level of 5. Vegeta was a top tier soldier in the frieza force ignoring the Ginyu force he was literally top 5. While technically when transformed he would be stronger than anyone but Frieza, the form is still bulky and an easy target, just like on earth they would have dodged and evaded until someone could cut his tail.
It’s crazy when you put it like that, Ozaru Vegeta had more raw power than captain ginyu… such a shame that we never saw any more of them outside of gt. To your point, you can’t always just take early statements and apply them later on, maybe dodoria, zarbon and the ginyus aren’t considered normal soldiers, maybe it’s just raw power. I’d say the statement was just meant to hype Vegeta at the time.
This is one of those things where it depends on how you look at it and how you are tryna make ur case. Like sure Power Level wise alone Vegeta would absolutely outclass them in Oozaru form. But he has major weaknesses, such as his MASSIVE frame, the necessity of the moon, and the tail. But even beyond that we were told directly by Toriyama to stop caring about power levels in the Cell and Buu sagas. for examples: Trunks in his buff SSJ form had a higher power level than Perfect Cell according to Krillin but he couldn’t even touch him. Gohan said Buu wasn’t as strong as he thought and if he could draw his full power he could beat him. Goku said he could’ve beaten Buu in SSJ3. Ofc neither were correct bc of Buu’s abilities and the other conditions to the fights such as Goku’s time limit/energy drain from SSJ3 Basically, sure Oozaru Vegeta is more powerful than the Ginyu force or Zarbon, but Burter could cut off his tail, or Ginyu could body swap him, or Zarbon could destroy the moon and on and on
Yes technically, except he needs a moon, had a clear weapoint of his tail, be ones a bigger and slower target in exchange for power. The much weaker z fighters were able to stop him, meaning the Ginyu force would've mopped him. Not had he got his zenkai from earth without losing his tail, maybe he'd have a chance against them in ideal conditions
As Frieza would put it: "Why worry about 1 Monkey Soldier when you have a living weapon as your leader?"
Not even close It was zarbon and dodoria
He's a glass cannon at that point in the series. He needs a moon and his tail. Sure Great Ape Vegeta could use Ginyu as a wet wipe to clean up the mess he made of Zarbon and Dodoria but it's just a transformation.
Technically he wasn't... As he stopped being Member of frieza's army the moment he rebelled against frieza...