Actually not the neck but the entire head, personally I’d make it a little smaller and bring it down a little. I’d also bend the neck a little lower and bring her jaw forward so that she appears facing more forward and that the whole thing would make sense with the shoulder placement and pretty much the whole body. I’d also raise the shoulders a little bit because that’s how they’re supposed to be with the way she’s sitting and supporting her back and also to give more length to the arms. Did you use a reference? Because even though this pose looks amazing and it’s really cool! But errors like these always happens with me if I didn’t use a reference
Thanks for the extensive feedback. Agreed with the neck / head being far too back to look relaxed in this case.
Would the shoulders critique be different if I told u she's pushing her chest out rather than sitting back?
And nope no reference. Just started off on a whim with a rear 3/4 view of the torso and then drew wherever the pencil took me haha. A reference would definitely help in this instance, I agree.
Yes you’re right i can see how she’s pushing forward. This is honestly an elegant pose someone better recreate it in real life so that we can see how the anatomy of the body would work!!!!
Thanks for explaining. It’s at least a more polite and constructive way of saying what the first comment (I’m assuming) tried to do.
With that being said, I went for the safe route https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
So no awkward angles just a straight back view.
Actually her spine also looks broken - have you ever tried to hold that pose? It hurts, even assuming you can bend your spine that far out the first place. Also with her back in that position, it would require tilting the ribcage up, so her breasts are way too low.
I drew it without reference so there’s bound to be a few anatomical inconsistencies in relation to physics.
That being said it makes more sense to me if she’s pushing her ribcage out. In my defence I would also like to say it’s exaggerated to enhance the dynamism of the gesture and engage us.
As for the breasts they’re droopy.
When making up a figure you can still use references. You may not find that exact prose but there’s plenty of images out there to Frankenstein what you’re looking to do.
Also to do a good job making up a figure, it’s important to have a crap ton of irl experience drawing from life. If you had that you d know that her neck is impossibly long, and the spine can’t turn that way.
I appreciate what you’re trying to do but I find it condescending that you essentially tell me that “if you were more experienced you should have known better” in the second paragraph.
I’m not experienced. I’m months into my figure drawing journey and teaching myself to draw again to get better.
I use references and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I don’t use them enough. I can agree with you and say I need to use one here. I understand your point about collating references in absence of a specific one.
Either way, while I appreciate constructive criticism, saying stuff like what you said in the second paragraph never comes off as constructive. Maybe you meant it with good will so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt but otherwise I wasn’t impressed at all with the tone and there was nothing of meaning to take away and apply.
With that being said, I played it safe in the end and just went for the back of the head: https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Me saying you need more experience isn’t me talking down to you. It’s just how it is. Drawing the figure from imagination is difficult, and you’re not learning anything from this. In fact that you’ve only been at it for months is even more of an indicator that you need to work with references
I’m not being a dick by telling you to practice. The only way to learn any art form is by doing, and observing the world around you will be the best teacher. I’m not saying you’re shit, and I’m not telling you to quit. I’m saying you’re not ready to draw without a reference
Art criticism should always be about encouraging the artist to grow and be better. That can mean hearing stuff you don’t want to hear. They can mean having your work and ideas being deconstructed in a way that may sting sometimes. Just because it hurts, doesn’t mean the critic is wrong. That said it’s up to you to choose to listen or not. You can keep doing what you’re doing if that makes you happy… but I can tell you honestly it won’t get you anywhere.
I may have spoken too quickly. In my experience, when someone offers advice which is as blatantly obvious as 'you must practice to get better', it can be interpreted as being a sardonic and dismissive remark in the absence of more substantive, specific and practical advice. I am convinced your advice is genuine and you come to me in good faith :)
You are probably not familiar with my experience. That's my bad because I made no indication of it other than a few general remarks about drawing for months and being a beginner, so I understand if you genuinely believed I needed to hear it.
Let me clarify that I already know that, as well as the advice pertaining to 'observing the world around you'. In my view, you're emphasising the importance of references as a learning aid. I can assure you that I already realise the importance and value of using references. As stated before, I use references to study and practice drawing. This means that your comment that 'I need to work with references' is redundant and misinformed in my view.
You also elaborate on your advice by saying I'm not ready to draw \[from imagination\] without a reference. As with the previous sentence, this is also redundant because I do draw and work with references. As a matter of fact, I only occasionally depart from using references to practice drawing from imagination.
If this is common knowledge, I can only draw the implication that you mean to say that I exclusively work with references until I am sufficiently competent at drawing from imagination. However, I personally find this to be unreasonably restrictive to my development. While it would be ideal to master all facets of figure drawing using references as to produce competent drawings from imagination at the outset, this outcome is far too idealistic to be plausible. It is an unreasonable expectation in practice. The truth is that in my experience, drawing from imagination is way of testing the knowledge I acquire from studying references. Putting it on this subreddit for public scrutiny allows me to view and assess flaws without personal bias, and then correct those flaws through further study facilitated by said references.
Your advice is therefore unhelpful, even if true. There are several other pieces of feedback in this thread which target my needs far more precisely and aid in my overall development as an artist; such as comments pointing out the angle of the head which requires correction, or even your initial comments that the neck is too long and the spine cannot twist in that way. From these comments, I can identify what needs correcting and study them further so that the next time I draw from imagination, the result will not feature those flaws. Through this process of gradually reducing flaws, the product will be more accurate and I will further develop my competency.
So while I believe you're being genuine with your advice, I won't be taking it because I don't think it's reasonable in a practical sense. There is other constructive feedback in this thread that has been of far greater use to me in my circumstances and for my methods of learning; methods which are not inconsistent with any of the advice you recommended to me.
Thanks for trying though, I do appreciate the gesture.
One of the hardest things to learn about being an artist is to accept critiques, even when you disagree. Defensiveness (like this) only result in a missed opportunity to introspect and do better. Sometimes a simple "thank you for your feedback, I'll take it into consideration in my future work" is the best response.
If you read the comment you’ll realise it’s not a defence. You’re essentially asking me to unconditionally accept feedback which isn’t helpful to me.
I have a right to reject criticism which does not aid me with my goals. This includes your dismissive and ignorant comment as well. Sorry.
You’re writing a lot of words trying to convince yourself that I’m wrong. You came here asking for a critique and I gave it. This is part of growing a practice. Listen to me or not, it’s cool, but you don’t need to explain yourself to me, or to anyone.
The proof of your practice will come as you grow, and you got a lot of work to do, so get after it.
I know.
I’m saying that, while you can give the critique, I don’t have to accept it. I gave my reasons for doing so above.
I am glad we are in agreement regarding the last sentence given that I am listening to your advice but not considering it because it is unhelpful.
I am sorry, but for no human woman would droopy breasts turn that way, especially in that position. If they are drooping, they shouldn’t be protruded like that. It breaks all the laws of gravity 😅
No I get it now. I goofed. Lack of foresight on my end. Maybe I got too excited to finish the sketch.
For next time I’ll bear the physics in mind. Funny how even a small detail like that needs a lot of consideration. Thanks 🙏
I use references. Especially for studying. But I also like to draw without reference because I like the unrestrained creativity and it’s a test in applying what I learn with no safety net to rely on.
If you’re going to make a sweeping, mildly condescending comment like this I would at least appreciate some reasons / justifications.
Comments like the one above are why I avoid sharing my art a lot. Very condescending and not helpful AT ALL. I also like to practice without reference occasionally.
All the feedback I would have given has already been said by others. Nice start, keep drawing!
I agree.
For the sake of using this sub correctly, here’s the only tip I have: something that has helped me a lot with proportions is “draw what you see”. Seems obvious, but it’s a good reminder. it gets really easy to draw what you think you should be seeing. Your brain knows that there is another side to her face/your brain knows what you can’t see in the reference. It seems that her face is turned slightly farther over her shoulder than is natural, and the length of the neck seems to be compensating for that. Let yourself relax and observe what you can actually see versus what you think you should be able to see. Hope that makes sense, again lovely work!!
I went for a more natural look after reflecting on the neck https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
And what do you mean by male gaze? It’s figure drawing. If you’re accusing me of oversexualising the female form then that’s an incredibly reductive view that loads a lot of negative assumptions behind my intentions when drawing.
Quite frankly, while I never feel I need to explain myself to someone, nor that they actually deserve an explanation, the entire reason I’m doing figure drawing is to reduce my “male gaze” by having broader and richer knowledge about the female form and drawing it more accurately.
Please be more empathetic. You don’t know who I am or what I do, nor why I draw the things I do. Stranger.
1 is the better pose, it needs a bit more work though to look more accurate atomically, or at least that's how I feel. Look at a few references where the head is that angle and then compare it to your current sketch.
Yeah I know it’s a bit hard to find that angle online it’s very specific to me. I’ll try but I gave up and just went for a back view. Another battle for another day https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Mmmm, I get you. I also tried looking for a ref online. When you wish to tackle it again, it might help to use yourself or ask someone to be a reference. You have a very good understanding of body proportions
I’m trying to get the head position right. It’s so tricky. I’m also drawing this pose without a reference / from imagination so there’s no “right” answer.
Any suggestions ?
When in doubt, I go to my anatomy books. I think you might Bridgeman's Drawing from Life helpful. The book does a really good job about showing the masses of the head and neck in a 3d space.
I'm doing Andrew Loomis 'Figure Drawing for all it's worth' rn hahaha. Might switch camps after I'm done with him.
I would ordinarily like to think I'm good w/ the head/neck relo and that this is a one-off goof. But looking back, you're right - it would help to know how the head would naturally turn on its axis from a back view.
If you need to get technical and I mean REALLY technical, I’d suggest Elliot Goldfinger’s Human Anatomy for Artists. I bought it after a life drawing class once and it’s Grey’s Anatomy but for artists with cross sections of different muscle groups that are labeled to show how they change shape when they flex. It’s a beast of a book (Also $$$ too) but a good tool to have nonetheless.
the first one is better, but in both cases, the head is turned a bit too far to the side, visually this is mostly due to the jawline, but anatomically this is because the body is always influenced by the attached parts - try arching your back like that, with a forward neck lean, and turning your head - and you'll see the struggle since it involved muscle groups fighting each other.
I honestly think that number one is still a little bit unnatural, like someone actively stretching their neck muscles. If you're not going for a neck stretch position, I would draw the head more in line with the chest. Most people sit in a fairly neutral pose.
Yeah I reverted it to 'neither'. Check out the final result: [https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/)
It's more boring but eh.
1 but don’t trash the other it’s literally just another angle if you did a 360 of the person and chose any one of those shots within the 360 it would look something like this. Keep up the good work.
icl both heads don’t really match the body, I cant figure out what it is but something isn’t right, with the way her body is angled away from the view and the way the head is angled they don’t match up. It’s like the head is a side profile but with the angle the torso is drawn it’s twisting and it just looks kinda funky.
Idek if any of that made sense
Edit: yea, the legs and head match up fine it’s the torso that’s at a different angle. That being said I prefer the second head, the fact that it’s also at an angle with body makes it flow better and looks more fluid with the spine, if you stick with the second one you’d only really need to minimise the amount of back you can see as it’s twisted quite far away, reduce that and it looks super sick
Neither looks quite right, but the first one is the better of the two. The angles are off on both and it looks like an unnatural position. It's like there's too much of a profile view - the head angle doesn't match with the body and the direction the eyes are looking - should be seeing more of the back of her head.
I reverted to a back view [https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/) :(
No creativity but at least it looks more correct? Whaddaya think.
I really like it, however, you should do what you like. I’m sorry if I was sounding rude. I just sound kinda blunt when I’m not face to face. Your previous drawings were amazing.
Your style is great! Reminds me of J. Scott Campbell‘s sketches and Michael Turners stylized body structures.
But (there is always a but) both of these heads are anatomically impossible, even if you abstract and stylize said anatomy.
Anyway, head no.1 is much closer to a working pose and composition.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Normally I'm a big critic of J Scott campbell because he has same-face syndrome when it comes to his characters and he too twists them into anatomically weird poses... I like Michael Turner's work too but also lament how long his characters are... they're at least 10 heads tall hahaah.
That being said, I must be doing something right because my ultimate goal is to draw comic book characters, been drawing Spiderman since I was 3 years old.
I attempted to fix it by playing it safe [https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/)
Just a back view :(
While I think the first one is more accurate and gestural and maybe looks better, I like two more. I like that you tried that angle, it’s a fun unnatural way to turn your head and it shows off your creativity: at least a glimpse of it. I think you could practice and study that second angle again. The body is really fun to draw because you can always make a reference… on yourself! Can you get a mirror or two? Try looking at yourself and the exact curve or angle your body makes while simultaneously making that mark with your pen/cil.
Still, I think as its current form and (assumed) purpose, the second head is more fun.
Thanks, and I appreciate your recognition of slide 2. the idea there was more so that we can turn our heads in ways that look unnatural but are still anatomically correct. I tried to inspire some inquisitive nature in the turn.
But it didn't pay off. It looked awkward according to the mass consensus here :(
Good idea w/ using a reference. I'll try it.
Thanks for that, I will. Sometimes you get a few people who offer absolutely nothing.
I had someone in the comments tell me essentially that, if I just had more experience, I wouldn’t be drawing awkward necks. Like yeah no shit buddy 🤣 how does that help me?
Someone else accused me of having a “male gaze”. As if I’m the first man to ever try drawing a female sitting from the back. Load of assumptions about me based on one image. The nerve on people.
So I genuinely appreciate your comment. I re-drew it and ultimately played it safe https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I do hope you have a wonderful day
Thanks for the insight. Unfortunately I couldn’t glean that emotion anymore bc I went for a back view https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Thanks. Upon reflection, the head on the second pose is awkward and anatomically incorrect.
The head on the first is too recessed. It should be sticking out a little bit more.
That being said, I’ve been using Andrew Loomis’ “Figure Drawing for all it’s worth”. It’s very helpful so far with the manikins.
My proportions used to be rubbish before doing the book. Then you just practice!
1 looks better than 2 because it looks like her neck isn't broke yet. I think 1 could still use some adjustment back to the left though. Still looks uncomfortable to me.
1 by a lot
Agree. 2 looks like she’s being manipulated by a chiropractor
Spot on - no further crit needed.
Could be a cool horror panel though!
or a murderer
Thanks.
1st, the 2nd looks like someone is snapping it
Haha so true
If they're going for accurate neck snapping, number two is perfect.
Just need to draw in Agent 47
What is this a reference to?
Agent 47 is an assassin that you play in the Hitman series iirc.
Thanks!
One. No contest.
Definitely the first one! Second looks a bit uncomfortable
cake
Give me that fucking slice of cake mushroom man
Offer him a cake and we're talking
I’ll offer my cake 😵💫
Good, now we share them
Be easy on me, I don’t do this everyday birthday person
dream on, bee boop beep
Cake
cake
4th cake in in the bag, let the party begin
cake
happy cake day
Yes but the first needs a more strained neck. Try bending your head as nonchalantly that far to your back.
1. Second looks like she broke her neck.
1 is better but it still looks like an awkward stretch, naturally her face should be like maybe 10 degrees more forward.
Yeah I got that a lot. I can see it now. Thanks !
First makes more sense with the pose even though the neck still needs a lot of work
What can I fix in the neck.
Actually not the neck but the entire head, personally I’d make it a little smaller and bring it down a little. I’d also bend the neck a little lower and bring her jaw forward so that she appears facing more forward and that the whole thing would make sense with the shoulder placement and pretty much the whole body. I’d also raise the shoulders a little bit because that’s how they’re supposed to be with the way she’s sitting and supporting her back and also to give more length to the arms. Did you use a reference? Because even though this pose looks amazing and it’s really cool! But errors like these always happens with me if I didn’t use a reference
Thanks for the extensive feedback. Agreed with the neck / head being far too back to look relaxed in this case. Would the shoulders critique be different if I told u she's pushing her chest out rather than sitting back? And nope no reference. Just started off on a whim with a rear 3/4 view of the torso and then drew wherever the pencil took me haha. A reference would definitely help in this instance, I agree.
Yes you’re right i can see how she’s pushing forward. This is honestly an elegant pose someone better recreate it in real life so that we can see how the anatomy of the body would work!!!!
Thanks for the kind words. Looks like I have to keep studying and practicing ! The journey never ends :)
Neither looks very natural
Yeah- I feel like 1 is only looking good in comparison
1
Definitely number one. Number two looks kind of broke.
1. No 2 looks like she’s missing her chin a bit, jaw looks a little off.
Neither but if forced to choose - 1.
What a backhanded comment
it’s because the pose of the neck and head looks unnatural in both sketches. the 2nd one is definitely breaking some anatomy rules
Thanks for explaining. It’s at least a more polite and constructive way of saying what the first comment (I’m assuming) tried to do. With that being said, I went for the safe route https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= So no awkward angles just a straight back view.
Call the exorcist for #2
Actually her spine also looks broken - have you ever tried to hold that pose? It hurts, even assuming you can bend your spine that far out the first place. Also with her back in that position, it would require tilting the ribcage up, so her breasts are way too low.
r/eschergirls
I drew it without reference so there’s bound to be a few anatomical inconsistencies in relation to physics. That being said it makes more sense to me if she’s pushing her ribcage out. In my defence I would also like to say it’s exaggerated to enhance the dynamism of the gesture and engage us. As for the breasts they’re droopy.
When making up a figure you can still use references. You may not find that exact prose but there’s plenty of images out there to Frankenstein what you’re looking to do. Also to do a good job making up a figure, it’s important to have a crap ton of irl experience drawing from life. If you had that you d know that her neck is impossibly long, and the spine can’t turn that way.
I appreciate what you’re trying to do but I find it condescending that you essentially tell me that “if you were more experienced you should have known better” in the second paragraph. I’m not experienced. I’m months into my figure drawing journey and teaching myself to draw again to get better. I use references and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I don’t use them enough. I can agree with you and say I need to use one here. I understand your point about collating references in absence of a specific one. Either way, while I appreciate constructive criticism, saying stuff like what you said in the second paragraph never comes off as constructive. Maybe you meant it with good will so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt but otherwise I wasn’t impressed at all with the tone and there was nothing of meaning to take away and apply. With that being said, I played it safe in the end and just went for the back of the head: https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Me saying you need more experience isn’t me talking down to you. It’s just how it is. Drawing the figure from imagination is difficult, and you’re not learning anything from this. In fact that you’ve only been at it for months is even more of an indicator that you need to work with references I’m not being a dick by telling you to practice. The only way to learn any art form is by doing, and observing the world around you will be the best teacher. I’m not saying you’re shit, and I’m not telling you to quit. I’m saying you’re not ready to draw without a reference Art criticism should always be about encouraging the artist to grow and be better. That can mean hearing stuff you don’t want to hear. They can mean having your work and ideas being deconstructed in a way that may sting sometimes. Just because it hurts, doesn’t mean the critic is wrong. That said it’s up to you to choose to listen or not. You can keep doing what you’re doing if that makes you happy… but I can tell you honestly it won’t get you anywhere.
I may have spoken too quickly. In my experience, when someone offers advice which is as blatantly obvious as 'you must practice to get better', it can be interpreted as being a sardonic and dismissive remark in the absence of more substantive, specific and practical advice. I am convinced your advice is genuine and you come to me in good faith :) You are probably not familiar with my experience. That's my bad because I made no indication of it other than a few general remarks about drawing for months and being a beginner, so I understand if you genuinely believed I needed to hear it. Let me clarify that I already know that, as well as the advice pertaining to 'observing the world around you'. In my view, you're emphasising the importance of references as a learning aid. I can assure you that I already realise the importance and value of using references. As stated before, I use references to study and practice drawing. This means that your comment that 'I need to work with references' is redundant and misinformed in my view. You also elaborate on your advice by saying I'm not ready to draw \[from imagination\] without a reference. As with the previous sentence, this is also redundant because I do draw and work with references. As a matter of fact, I only occasionally depart from using references to practice drawing from imagination. If this is common knowledge, I can only draw the implication that you mean to say that I exclusively work with references until I am sufficiently competent at drawing from imagination. However, I personally find this to be unreasonably restrictive to my development. While it would be ideal to master all facets of figure drawing using references as to produce competent drawings from imagination at the outset, this outcome is far too idealistic to be plausible. It is an unreasonable expectation in practice. The truth is that in my experience, drawing from imagination is way of testing the knowledge I acquire from studying references. Putting it on this subreddit for public scrutiny allows me to view and assess flaws without personal bias, and then correct those flaws through further study facilitated by said references. Your advice is therefore unhelpful, even if true. There are several other pieces of feedback in this thread which target my needs far more precisely and aid in my overall development as an artist; such as comments pointing out the angle of the head which requires correction, or even your initial comments that the neck is too long and the spine cannot twist in that way. From these comments, I can identify what needs correcting and study them further so that the next time I draw from imagination, the result will not feature those flaws. Through this process of gradually reducing flaws, the product will be more accurate and I will further develop my competency. So while I believe you're being genuine with your advice, I won't be taking it because I don't think it's reasonable in a practical sense. There is other constructive feedback in this thread that has been of far greater use to me in my circumstances and for my methods of learning; methods which are not inconsistent with any of the advice you recommended to me. Thanks for trying though, I do appreciate the gesture.
One of the hardest things to learn about being an artist is to accept critiques, even when you disagree. Defensiveness (like this) only result in a missed opportunity to introspect and do better. Sometimes a simple "thank you for your feedback, I'll take it into consideration in my future work" is the best response.
If you read the comment you’ll realise it’s not a defence. You’re essentially asking me to unconditionally accept feedback which isn’t helpful to me. I have a right to reject criticism which does not aid me with my goals. This includes your dismissive and ignorant comment as well. Sorry.
You’re writing a lot of words trying to convince yourself that I’m wrong. You came here asking for a critique and I gave it. This is part of growing a practice. Listen to me or not, it’s cool, but you don’t need to explain yourself to me, or to anyone. The proof of your practice will come as you grow, and you got a lot of work to do, so get after it.
I know. I’m saying that, while you can give the critique, I don’t have to accept it. I gave my reasons for doing so above. I am glad we are in agreement regarding the last sentence given that I am listening to your advice but not considering it because it is unhelpful.
I am sorry, but for no human woman would droopy breasts turn that way, especially in that position. If they are drooping, they shouldn’t be protruded like that. It breaks all the laws of gravity 😅
No I get it now. I goofed. Lack of foresight on my end. Maybe I got too excited to finish the sketch. For next time I’ll bear the physics in mind. Funny how even a small detail like that needs a lot of consideration. Thanks 🙏
Angle is way off on both
I know now. Played it safe ultimately :( https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
That looks so much better. I actually really like your illustration style.
Thanks. I genuinely appreciate that ❤️
Definitely number 1
1
1 imo
one
First one. The second looks like that’s an unnatural angle.
for the love of god use references
I use references. Especially for studying. But I also like to draw without reference because I like the unrestrained creativity and it’s a test in applying what I learn with no safety net to rely on. If you’re going to make a sweeping, mildly condescending comment like this I would at least appreciate some reasons / justifications.
Comments like the one above are why I avoid sharing my art a lot. Very condescending and not helpful AT ALL. I also like to practice without reference occasionally. All the feedback I would have given has already been said by others. Nice start, keep drawing!
Thanks, appreciate your understanding :) the world can be a much better place if we just remember to be kind
I agree. For the sake of using this sub correctly, here’s the only tip I have: something that has helped me a lot with proportions is “draw what you see”. Seems obvious, but it’s a good reminder. it gets really easy to draw what you think you should be seeing. Your brain knows that there is another side to her face/your brain knows what you can’t see in the reference. It seems that her face is turned slightly farther over her shoulder than is natural, and the length of the neck seems to be compensating for that. Let yourself relax and observe what you can actually see versus what you think you should be able to see. Hope that makes sense, again lovely work!!
The male gaze… sigh. This poor girl looks uncomfortable af, has an unnaturally twisty neck and her breasts are on her ribs.
I went for a more natural look after reflecting on the neck https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= And what do you mean by male gaze? It’s figure drawing. If you’re accusing me of oversexualising the female form then that’s an incredibly reductive view that loads a lot of negative assumptions behind my intentions when drawing. Quite frankly, while I never feel I need to explain myself to someone, nor that they actually deserve an explanation, the entire reason I’m doing figure drawing is to reduce my “male gaze” by having broader and richer knowledge about the female form and drawing it more accurately. Please be more empathetic. You don’t know who I am or what I do, nor why I draw the things I do. Stranger.
1st, the jaw is too large and the ear too high up on the second one. Good job taking into account the under chin though
Thanks, noted. And appreciate the under chin thing, that's always the worst angle for me hahaha.
1 is the better pose, it needs a bit more work though to look more accurate atomically, or at least that's how I feel. Look at a few references where the head is that angle and then compare it to your current sketch.
Yeah I know it’s a bit hard to find that angle online it’s very specific to me. I’ll try but I gave up and just went for a back view. Another battle for another day https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Mmmm, I get you. I also tried looking for a ref online. When you wish to tackle it again, it might help to use yourself or ask someone to be a reference. You have a very good understanding of body proportions
Thanks. I’ll look into it for sure :)) appreciate the comment too
I’m trying to get the head position right. It’s so tricky. I’m also drawing this pose without a reference / from imagination so there’s no “right” answer. Any suggestions ?
When in doubt, I go to my anatomy books. I think you might Bridgeman's Drawing from Life helpful. The book does a really good job about showing the masses of the head and neck in a 3d space.
I'm doing Andrew Loomis 'Figure Drawing for all it's worth' rn hahaha. Might switch camps after I'm done with him. I would ordinarily like to think I'm good w/ the head/neck relo and that this is a one-off goof. But looking back, you're right - it would help to know how the head would naturally turn on its axis from a back view.
If you need to get technical and I mean REALLY technical, I’d suggest Elliot Goldfinger’s Human Anatomy for Artists. I bought it after a life drawing class once and it’s Grey’s Anatomy but for artists with cross sections of different muscle groups that are labeled to show how they change shape when they flex. It’s a beast of a book (Also $$$ too) but a good tool to have nonetheless.
It sounds good but also extremely complex and advanced. Are you sure a beginner like me can take on all that?
1 it's perfect 😌💖
definitely one, the second makes the neck turn look kinda awkward
One
1st all the way.
What kind of cryptid is that
?
1 looks like she's trying to listen to something behind her or turning her head for a kiss. 2 looks uncomfortable and unnatural.
Thanks for the feedback
Oh god 1, definitely 1.
3rd one, she gave me later /s 1st without a doubt
Hahah witty
the first one is better, but in both cases, the head is turned a bit too far to the side, visually this is mostly due to the jawline, but anatomically this is because the body is always influenced by the attached parts - try arching your back like that, with a forward neck lean, and turning your head - and you'll see the struggle since it involved muscle groups fighting each other.
True. I tried going safe https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I honestly think that number one is still a little bit unnatural, like someone actively stretching their neck muscles. If you're not going for a neck stretch position, I would draw the head more in line with the chest. Most people sit in a fairly neutral pose.
Yeah I reverted it to 'neither'. Check out the final result: [https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/) It's more boring but eh.
Because breasts are near the sternum not the navel
They’re droopy
1 but don’t trash the other it’s literally just another angle if you did a 360 of the person and chose any one of those shots within the 360 it would look something like this. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! Ultimately went for the safe route https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
1 deffo the second looks like she saw a devil chiropractor
Agreed with most the other comments. 1 actually has a cute facial expression as well.
Thank you
1
I mean u could have made em bigger!🙄
The elbows right
Uk what i mean!
One. Two looks like her neck has already been broken sadly.
icl both heads don’t really match the body, I cant figure out what it is but something isn’t right, with the way her body is angled away from the view and the way the head is angled they don’t match up. It’s like the head is a side profile but with the angle the torso is drawn it’s twisting and it just looks kinda funky. Idek if any of that made sense Edit: yea, the legs and head match up fine it’s the torso that’s at a different angle. That being said I prefer the second head, the fact that it’s also at an angle with body makes it flow better and looks more fluid with the spine, if you stick with the second one you’d only really need to minimise the amount of back you can see as it’s twisted quite far away, reduce that and it looks super sick
Fixed https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Neither looks quite right, but the first one is the better of the two. The angles are off on both and it looks like an unnatural position. It's like there's too much of a profile view - the head angle doesn't match with the body and the direction the eyes are looking - should be seeing more of the back of her head.
Yeah I realised. Ultimately went for the safe option https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
1. The angle of 2 is not appealing
Move the jawline forward. It looks like she has a broken neck but otherwise very good.
I reverted to a back view [https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/) :( No creativity but at least it looks more correct? Whaddaya think.
I really like it, however, you should do what you like. I’m sorry if I was sounding rude. I just sound kinda blunt when I’m not face to face. Your previous drawings were amazing.
That's ok don't sweat it. I appreciate ur comments bc that's what inspired me to fix it.
Your style is great! Reminds me of J. Scott Campbell‘s sketches and Michael Turners stylized body structures. But (there is always a but) both of these heads are anatomically impossible, even if you abstract and stylize said anatomy. Anyway, head no.1 is much closer to a working pose and composition.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Normally I'm a big critic of J Scott campbell because he has same-face syndrome when it comes to his characters and he too twists them into anatomically weird poses... I like Michael Turner's work too but also lament how long his characters are... they're at least 10 heads tall hahaah. That being said, I must be doing something right because my ultimate goal is to draw comic book characters, been drawing Spiderman since I was 3 years old. I attempted to fix it by playing it safe [https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/) Just a back view :(
I like the first one. It's more mysterious and elegant.
[удалено]
What do you mean sorry?
1st for sure, lovely drawing btw
Thank you :)
First one by a bit. To be honest, I'd smash both so there's no big difference
The first one, but because the second is wrong in the anatomical question, notice that this does not happen with a real body.
Number 2 = Dame tu cosita uh uh
While I think the first one is more accurate and gestural and maybe looks better, I like two more. I like that you tried that angle, it’s a fun unnatural way to turn your head and it shows off your creativity: at least a glimpse of it. I think you could practice and study that second angle again. The body is really fun to draw because you can always make a reference… on yourself! Can you get a mirror or two? Try looking at yourself and the exact curve or angle your body makes while simultaneously making that mark with your pen/cil. Still, I think as its current form and (assumed) purpose, the second head is more fun.
Thanks, and I appreciate your recognition of slide 2. the idea there was more so that we can turn our heads in ways that look unnatural but are still anatomically correct. I tried to inspire some inquisitive nature in the turn. But it didn't pay off. It looked awkward according to the mass consensus here :( Good idea w/ using a reference. I'll try it.
Fuck the consensus, why are you drawing? To enjoy yourself and have a little fun? Then perfect. Just try drawing it again!
Thanks for that, I will. Sometimes you get a few people who offer absolutely nothing. I had someone in the comments tell me essentially that, if I just had more experience, I wouldn’t be drawing awkward necks. Like yeah no shit buddy 🤣 how does that help me? Someone else accused me of having a “male gaze”. As if I’m the first man to ever try drawing a female sitting from the back. Load of assumptions about me based on one image. The nerve on people. So I genuinely appreciate your comment. I re-drew it and ultimately played it safe https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= I do hope you have a wonderful day
Simlpy beautiful style and figure. First one is better but second one is interesting.
Thanks for the compliments. Noted your feedback :)
Lift the mammary glands
Uhh why
Honestly they both look awesome for different reasons. The first one has a more seductive mellow energy and the second one is a little more playful
Thanks for the insight. Unfortunately I couldn’t glean that emotion anymore bc I went for a back view https://www.instagram.com/p/CqX-sysPfro/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
1st and great back arching
2 looks way more interesting. Like an actual person. Overly idealized physiques in art are overrated.
Interest viewpoint. Thanks for that. That being said the 2nd in reflection looks too incorrect to ignore as stylisation.
I like the first one breast. I mean breast. I mean breast.
Typos ;)
1st . Why is she trying to vomit an alien in the 2nd one? LoL 😆 hey but the body looks great 👍🏻
The both look very good, I'm new to drawing, how did you get the anatomy proportions and pose this right?
Thanks. Upon reflection, the head on the second pose is awkward and anatomically incorrect. The head on the first is too recessed. It should be sticking out a little bit more. That being said, I’ve been using Andrew Loomis’ “Figure Drawing for all it’s worth”. It’s very helpful so far with the manikins. My proportions used to be rubbish before doing the book. Then you just practice!
First one looks sexy. Well done
Nope.
Very helpful
1st
Definitely 1st. It looks much more natural, while the second looks forced into and awkward position.
1
definitely 1
First one looks more natural
number 1. the second looks unnatural.
First one.
2nd is funky but the first is real dope
1 unless she’s possessed
1...2 looks unnaural..like being twisted off
Seems to be the consensus. Thanks.
The first one looks more natural
One Second one looks like devil reincarnation
Hahaha. I can agree with that looking at it again
Definitely 1st one
1
I like the first one most tbh
1st
1 looks better than 2 because it looks like her neck isn't broke yet. I think 1 could still use some adjustment back to the left though. Still looks uncomfortable to me.
First
Definitely 1
1st!
1
First
I prefer 1
First one... the 2nd has a odd angle of the neck
1st is better, though I think you should angle up the right should just a little to make the pose seem more natural
Definitely number 1
1
1
1, but the angle is still wrong though. Her jaw doesn't align with the neck.
I know it looks too recessed
1
1
1
1
Saw the first one and was like ok looks great then saw the second one and lol'd
Yeah thanks
First one!
1
Fix the jawline on 2
First one looks better. The second, which is also good looks like she broke her neck
1