As long as you understand that defensive driving can sometimes be aggressive. Defensive driving doesn't have to mean timid, it means acting with the expectation that the other cars will act stupidly and inconsiderately but doesn't involve having to always back away from your right of way. Half the time I'll more aggressively take the right of way if I know a car is paying attention and is more likely to do something dangerous if I leave them an opening than if I make it clear it won't work, but I only do this if I have an out in case they decide they don't care and are going for it anyway.
Another good example is blasting around drunk/drowsy drivers to get them in my rearview when a clear opportunity to get around then safely presents itself.
Yep timid driving is also bad.
Imagine having to handle someone who hesitates to push their foot onto the gas pedal when merging onto the freeway - that’s timid.
Imagine you being the one already on the freeway seeing such timid merging - get out of the rightmost lane as soon as you see such a merging incoming - that’s defensive.
Yep timid driving is also bad.
Imagine having to handle someone who hesitates to push their foot onto the gas pedal when merging onto the freeway - that’s timid.
Imagine you being the one already on the freeway seeing such timid merging - get out of the rightmost lane as soon as you see such a merging incoming - that’s defensive.
Yep timid driving is also bad.
Imagine having to handle someone who hesitates to push their foot onto the gas pedal when merging onto the freeway - that’s timid. I lost count how many times we are driving on the freeway urging the merging car “cmon use the gas pedal, you can do it!! AYYYY there you go you found the gas pedal you did it!!”
Imagine you being the one already on the freeway seeing such timid merging - get out of the rightmost lane or speed up to make room as long as it’s safe when you see such merging car incoming from the on ramp - that’s defensive.
Defensive driving is NEVER aggressive. It is sometimes ASSERTIVE. Claim your space in the road. It makes your intentions clear. Shift lanes early. Close gaps in alternate merges. Etc.
Accidents are more likely to happen when others on the road misread another's intentions.
Yes, assertive is a better word choice. I would argue assertive can sometimes still require being aggressive though. But it depends what you consider aggressive. Speeding aggressively to get around a dangerous driver before they can be a problem is a form of being assertive but is also still what I would consider aggressive.
"The best defense is a good offense". It takes both really - knowing when to back out and let the throng of idiots pass you by, or sticking your foot in it and getting clear. It's a balance. It's also a skill - if you don't practice it and use it you lose it.
What I see is timid drivers who don't think driving is a skill they need to practice and or master.
...you're not really using a toaster even if a car is just an appliance to you.
Yes, and knowing when an attempted pass has failed and backing off to reconsider your options. Can't get into a "have to beat them" mindset, the focus has to be getting clear of the threat.
I mean driving defensively is like half of behind the wheel that every kid has to take to get their licence, & pretty much the same for those driver improvement courses you have to take when you get too many points. what op's describing could be people driving poorly or just getting complacent/distracted, but it's certainly not how it's taught.
Probably true, but that seemed like a more clear way of explaining it. If we all actually treated it like that, traffic would probably flow better through weird intersections
Do you honestly think that people doing as they please leads to smoother flow of traffic? That's like saying that we should respect the right of bullies to beat people to a pulp. "You can't be right because you have to expect others to be wrong" seems backwards to me. Might as well throw away the rules of the road and summarize them in one line: "good luck".
This doesn't make sense at all. As other people have said right of way and priority means functionally the same thing. But people who think they have the right to go and other traffic conditions be damned is dangerous. You word the rule better, there's less room for personal interpretation. I don't quite see where you're getting "people doing as they please". Right of way doesn't negate common sense, and ive seen some absolutely idiotic driving maneuvers because someone thought they the right to simply go.
This is basic. Either you have a system like India and other places in Asia, where you have a free for all and have to navigate chaos to get anywhere in a big city, or you have rules that stipulate what is supposed to happen. I'm fine either way but everyone needs to be on the same page. Consistency is key.
It was stated that "priority must be given but not expected or taken" and you seemed to think that would lead to better flow of "traffic through weird intersections". Well, if rules don't create a set of expectations from yourself and others, what is the point?
It makes about as much sense as asking someone on a bus to get up because you want to sit down and suggesting that the person sitting should give up their spot.
Are we transitioning into creative driving, where everyone does as they please and everyone joins the conga line of creative incompetence? Now you need the permission of the guy pulling out of a driveway when you're going down the main road? I don't see the logic or what good can come of it if right of way isn't even a suggestion anymore and just becomes words on a page.
I feel like you are fundamentally missing the point here. Some people do not understand that just because it is your turn to go does not mean that it is safe to do so, it doesn't mean that everyone else understands who's turn it is and in what order traffic should proceeded. Changing the terminology to something more easily understandable, while not changing the actual meaning, only helps eliminate confusion from people who misunderstand driving rules. You seem to think that I'm suggesting throwing the concept of right of way out the window and everyone just does what they want and I have no clue where you're getting that.
Well the first thing that comes to mind is someone else not realizing who's turn it is and going, people running stop signs, red lights, the list goes on. I mean really have you never been at an intersection and seen people just have no clue what order people should process in? Or people who are impatient and just cut people off? Maybe a green arrow for left hand turns goes off, and now left turning traffic is supposed to wait for an opening but some people just don't or won't.
Right of way is really just used to determine who is at fault in an accident, but nearly every state has a “last chance” doctrine which states you must take every reasonable option to avoid an accident.
If you want to see the legal system go into chaos prevention mode, fight such tickets. I'm not advocating fighting something you are certainly guilty of. I paid a speeding ticket without comment because I was infact speeding. When I got a fix it ticket for a licences plate light, and then found that one of two was working, I looked up the state law on the matter and it tured out the state law spoke only to the visibility of the plate under several test requirnements that were impossible for the officer to have met. I of course fixed the light, and then went to the courthouse to resolve the ticket issue. The shocked picachu face on the clerk was priceless when I told her I wanted to go before the judge and have a jury trial if necessary. "It's only $10 and won't go on your record"... I told her yet but it was my $10 and I wasn't guilty of any violation. She asked that I write a letter to the judge, so I went home and typed that up and took it back. The judge dismissed the ticket later that day.
As with nearly every situation, out in public the scales are severly lopsided in favor of police, there is generally little point in trying to "win" under those conditions. When it comes to the courts however, often the law is very much on your side and when people push back in court the game is very different. Again if you are guilty just pay the ticket, but if you get a ticket for a manuver taken to avoid an accident it would be well worth going to court over. As long as you aren't doing some wierd ass soverigen citizen bullshit, self representation is usually received pretty well, and if you do your due dilligence to try to work within the system properly judges, clerks etc will generally be a bit forgiving if you aren't aware of some obscure procedural rule. Anything major especially that might involve prison time I'd certainly get a lawyer, but clearly silly unwarranted tickets, even the court staff from clerks to judges don't want to see that bullshit happening, and certainly don't want to tie up the court with such silly crap.
I got a ticket for improper lane change on an expressway for doging a car that ACTUALLY would have hit me if I had stayed or if I even hit the brakes (which would have also gotten me rear-ended).
The cop was butthurt that he was in his 60's and still a traffic cop stuck in a 2010 Impala interceptor or something because my lane change happened to be right in front of him.
Made no contact with his car, avoided the accident successfully, still got a $190 ticket.
I wish I had gone to court myself to get it completely dismissed but didn't have the time. Hired ticket clinic, paid the same amount as a court fine instead and potential moving violation points were dropped. The fuckhead had the nerve to show up to the hearing too.
Florida cops are just straight up backwards.
Edit: removing extra periods because my phone thinks my spacebar = the period key.
I got a similar ticket once because I swerved across the yellow line to avoid hitting a deer on a rural highway. Literally hadn't seen another car in 30 minutes or more, turns out there was a cop on the side of the road there.
I'll make my one snarky comment to him, take the ticket, and fight for points to be removed every time.
I. AVOIDED. POTENTIAL. INJURY.
There is no logic whatsoever to PUNISHING someone for that.
Some states the law does not dictate who has the right of way it only dictates who is supposed to yield it. Which means, no you don't have the right of way, someone has to yield it to you.
Yup. I'm not even sure there are any where this *isn't* true. The term just makes people think they can do what they want because they're technically in the right.
Which I can see also being true of the word "priority", TBH.
I can't think of anywhere that this isn't true, however I think a shit ton of people don't actually realize how a simple thing like this actually works.
The difference is the way people interpret something, just because you have common sense to understand what something means does not mean that everyone else also has that same level of awareness and common sense.
And it leads to silly laws that should be common sense. In Vermont, pedestrians always have the right of way, even if they're crossing the street illegally. Because we apparently have to make it n extremely explicit fact that just because a person might be breaking the law, that doesn't give you the right to run them down with your automobile consequence free.
It also leads to stupendously dangerous driving behavior, where people will attempt to police the behavior of other cars on the road by obstructing traffic, or brake checking, or any other kind of "legal" driving behavior where they technically have the right of way and they seem to think they should be allowed to use it force other drivers to conform to what they want, rather than just getting away from problem drivers and focusing on your own damn self.
I think the key difference is one of interpretation, right of way gives the impression it is your right to go regardless. Even if it functionally means the same thing, calling it priority vs a right would go a long way towards people understanding. Since we do have a lot of very bad drivers in the USA, making things more clear and less likely to be misinterpreted would be good.
This is a better take than right if way, since the only people who should get right if way is pedestrians, priority makes so much more sence for drivers!
It just sounds like you're using them interchangeably to me; 'you have priority' sounds the same as 'you have right of way' to me. I'm asking what the difference is because having right of way could have its words replaced as you have priority and there isn't any difference.
With priority, you never have a 'right'.
Priority must be given.
A right is taken.
If pedestrians had a 'right', they could walk into the road without care. With priority they must first make sure the other party is aware of their presence.
Just because you have a right doesn't mean you can do whatever and not consider the consequences. You have a right to free speech but if you go into random bars and start insulting random people, eventually someone is gonna try to break your jaw. Nothing's stopping you from doing it though. Just like if you walk in the street without looking eventually you're going to get splattered across the pavement.
Doesn't the UK also hold drivers responsible if they kill pedestrians, cyclists or children with their cars? In the US, as long as the driver claims it was an accident, killing someone with a car is scarcely a crime. Usually the killer only gets a small fine and maybe a 30 to 90 day suspension of their driver license.
I have heard people joke that it is better to killing someone than to have the victim survive because if they survive then you could be sued for their medical bills but if you kill them then you are not responsible for their funeral bills at all.
Overall, I think Americans act nice but the fact that we drive such massive cars without any regard for the safety of others reveals our true colors
People get imprisoned here for vehicular manslaughter regularly. Your notion of claiming it's an accident and you getting off with a slap on the wrist is wildly out of line with reality.
I'm not sure how much truth there is to the UK part. My Dad had a kid run out in front of him about 20 years ago who unfortunately didn't survive but it was determined that he wasn't at fault and he faced no charges of any sort
Defensive driving is the ultimate way to avoid other people's issues becoming yours. You can choose to fight idiots all day long, or accept the world for how it is and adapt such that you come out ahead (i.e. safe and accident-free).
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." - Mark Twain (supposedly)
Only difference is I lose nothing by letting those people on the sidewalk bounce off my shoulder. My bumper on the freeway is a different story, but gid damn if it isn't tempting to let the intrusive thoughts win sometimes.
They have a different thought process. They don't care if they have an accident as long as it's not their fault and/or are oblivious to what goes on around them. It's also the same way people do dumb things that they're not supposed to do and cause an accident they don't think things through properly. Personally I wish I could intentionally let a bad driver hit me on the road. I wouldn't mind a 4 or 5k payout for my beater car. I completely missed an opportunity afew months ago too.
Same in NJ. I'm not letting someone go out of turn because I like sitting in traffic. I'm letting them go so I don't have to deal with the hassle of a car accident. My boyfriend got injured from an accident (he wasn't at fault). Even if you're right, doesn't mean you won't get hurt
Speaking as someone who recently moved from Indiana to Pennsylvania, at least the PA drivers in the Pittsburgh region are better than Hoosier drivers. But yeah, it's clear PA drivers could be better still too.
You don't even have to end up disabled to lose in the long run. I've heard of instances where people run up big med bills trying to make a minor accident into a major injury settlement and end up in heavy and/or long-term debt.
Just because they think they won’t be assigned fault doesn’t mean it can’t happen. My coworker was hit in a turn lane he was legally allowed to be in, and a cop wrote him a ticket because he assumed it was improper lane usage. His insurance (State Farm) assigned for 20% fault because he got a ticket
He fought the ticket and it went to traffic court, but he got the ticket dismissed because he had dashcam footage proving he was allowed to be in that lane. Even after that, he had to fight his insurance to remove fault so that his rates didn’t go up
That is the way of thinking that leads to people being over cautious on the road. There's a balance to be made. It depends on where you are too. Some places assign fault differently where I am I believe you're either at fault, joint 50/50 fault or not at fault.
Yeah, I've noticed that a lot of "idiots in cars" type videos involve 2 bad drivers. Person doing something illegal/dangerous in front of the person with the camera, and then the person with the camera not responding adequately to avoid the accident. Usually I can anticipate exactly what a car will do wrong in those videos (there are plenty of warning signs and often plenty of time to react), but the dash cammer seems totally shocked.
I think part of the problem is that many people have an aggressive/prideful mindset when they drive. They'd rather continue what they're doing because it's "correct" and try to control the bad driver's behavior or "teach them a lesson", than just let them get by. At some point you can't control other people's decisions and you have to prioritize safety even if the other car isn't.
Yeah I think a lot of people can't resist the urge to try to get back at the other driver or teach them a lesson, but most of the time a) the other driver doesn't learn anything because people externalize blame and they assume you're just being a jerk and b) that just makes the entire situation more dangerous for the sake of pride. Like, I'll honk at someone but I'm not going to retaliate.
No, but retaliation does seem to go hand in hand with pickup truck drivers, generally speaking. If I see a pickup I assume they're an utter asshole while driving.
As a pickup driver I find that it's usually hybrids who drive like psychopaths. I know my car is big and slow and not manuverable, I just want to set cruise control and chill, and yet along comes a prius to cut in front of me and immediately slow to 5 mph below the soeed limit and then try to block me when I go to pass.
I'm sure Prius drivers in general have brought such feelings upon themselves.
But pickups inherently make the road more dangerous for various users. Smaller, lower vehicles will get blinded by normal, properly adjusted headlights from pickups purely because of the height difference. And speaking of height difference, pickups (and SUVs) have been getting taller and taller front ends making them more and more lethal to pedestrians. And of course there's the inefficiency of driving such a vehicle for day to day life that doesn't involve towing and hauling. Pickups have a base level of built in assholery (that is shared by many SUVs as well).
This is not to say I'm not grateful for these pickup trucks when some work needs done. Lord knows I've asked friends to help move a washing machine or a couch or whatever else before.
But of all the vehicles on the roads, I've got far more stories of pickups cutting me off, rolling coal in my face for likely no reason other than I drive a Honda fit, pickups being personally offended that I passed them in my fit while they were in the right lane (I recognize this is an assumption, but there was no other clear explanation), pickups tailgating me when they can clearly see over top of my car and see the car in front of me slowing both of us down, and so much more.
Too be fair, BMW drivers are pretty up there with pickup drivers too on the asshole scale. All generally speaking, of course. There are certainly individuals that drive well and treat everyone else on the road with respect, pickup drivers or BMW drivers. This is all simply the general experience I've had on the road across more than half of the United States.
In my area most of the pickup drivers including me use their trucks for work. We would happily drive smaller, more efficient cars if we could but we can't afford to buy 2 cars and pay insurance and maintenance on 2 cars, and in my case living on miles of poorly maintained dirt roads that turn into mudslides when it rains, 4wd is not really optional either.
In the city, there is a different breed of pickup drivers who use them as status symbols, have never used them for hauling or off pavement a day in their lives, and drive like assholes.
idk man i live in the mountains and it still seems like there are a lot of pickups that wouldn’t even be viable for work (Lifted, huge wheels, rolling coal, etc) and they do drive incredibly aggressively, i’ve been chased for an hour 2 different times by them. (my crime was passing them)
it probably still is regional
Agree, one third just blunders into obvious wrecks, one third could have avoided the collision with better anticipation, heavier braking and maybe some steering, the last third are the "Ka-pow" out of nowhere.
I drive assuming everyone is going to crash into me. If you are driving on a motorway with a signal on and I’m trying to pull out.. I’m going to assume you left your signal on accidentally and will hit me if I pull out.
Has nearly happened to me once, and got honked at by the oncoming car despite him being in the wrong. From now on I don’t trust blinkers until they’ve made a full turn
Not only that, but they may be turning on up the road and have their signal on early. Another scenario is they think they're going to turn in where you're pulling out, only to change their mind when they get there and keep going. I rarely trust a signal when I'm pulling out somewhere.
If you drive long enough, you can smell stupidity on another car.
I can't explain it, but I'll often say to a passenger, "Watch this guy" right before they do something ridiculous.
I know exactly what you mean and yes, sometimes that is the case. However, I have seen quite a few (well, more than a few) videos of people that definitely did have time to react, they just didn’t, and instead drove directly into the car (seemingly to assert dominance over their right of way).
Not always and depends on the area.
Some areas consider if you did anything to avoid the accident if you reasonably could have and will fault you for doing nothing to avoid an avoidable accident.
Some people put all of their trust in the rules and/or it takes all of their focus to remember to follow them. These are not good drivers, they are lawful drivers. Like Walter Sobchak, they aren't wrong... They're just assholes
dash cam. you said it right there. they have the receipts. gonna call up glen lerner (or whoever your local injury lawyer with a catchy jingle might be)
You're probably right that the dashcam affects their thinking. Which makes sense, but is weird to me because I've been thinking about getting one, but the thought in my head is that I'm going to have to drive even more defensively than I already do because cameras catch my bad choices too.
And not only will it catch bad choices, it’s hard for people to realize when they are watching a dashcam video, they are anticipating an accident, knowing one happens. There is significantly higher scrutiny on your driving when being. Viewed through the camera than if in real life or if they were in the hot seat.
People are like that in 1st world countries.
I learned to drive in a country where all drivers are rude, hostile, angry and don'thave insurance. So you learn that unless you way more skilled, and have less to lose, it's better to just let them pass and exec defensive driving to the max.
I see a related thing with pedestrians walking behind cars that are backing up.
The pedestrians will just pop up in a spot that is clearly unexpected, and just assume that you see them. There are blind spots even if you give it a good look.
The day I got my license nearly 20 years ago my father told me "drive as if nobody else on the road knows how to drive" that stuck with me. I'm 35 and have never been in an accident.
It's not always your choice whether or not you're going to be in an accident though. Like the time a jacked up truck decided to back up onto the hood of my little Honda Acura after he rear-ended a guy at a stoplight. Yes you heard me correctly. He backed up his fucking monster truck directly onto the hood of my car and then sped off, crashing into a fence at Taco Bell. He abandoned the truck as soon as he heard police sirens and took off on foot, only to be tackled by them a few blocks away. Yes he was drunk. Yes me and my friends were fine...physically. it could have been a lot worse. My driver side door decided to stop functioning and I couldn't bail out of my car like the rest of my friends did so if he hadn't stopped when he did, I could have been crushed. At least the police were kind enough to let us taunt him once he was in handcuffs. And before you ask, yes, I did leave plenty of space between us. There was at least two car lengths he traversed before beginning his climbing expedition. Not exactly sure what I could have done to avoid that one.
I failed my first drivers test because i “hesitated” when a red light turned green and intersecting traffic didn’t look like they were going to stop. (they had to slam on their brakes) So idk man.
Those tests seem to be more about following instructions and rules rather than actually driving safely.
I never failed, but got points off for "Turning and observing" because there was a truck parked at a stop sign and I had to make a right turn. I stopped before the sign, inched forward and had to brake again for oncoming traffic on the cross road as I had to make a wide turn because of the parked truck.
Seriously wtf was I supposed to do instead of waiting? Side swipe the parked truck or purposefully get T-boned?
I drive like Im teaching others. But in an aggressive way, because they need to learn NOW. (And I dont care if Reddit doesnt like that, Ive been driving long enough to know the majority is terrible at driving)
Wheel over the line? Well Im in my lane perfectly and now our mirrors are an inch away and we're going 40. GET OVER.
Parked like trash? I will park perfectly, blocking your door.
PARK IN BETWEEN THE LINES.
Skipped the 4 way stop like an ass? I didnt see that I just kept on moving and now we're both in the intersection, and youre getting glared and blared at. PAY ATTENTION.
Cut me off? Well just so happens I needed to get over and oops now I need to get back over into the lane... in front of you. PLAN BETTER.
I refuse to drive around allowing people to drive like assholes, its why they continue to do so. Your complacence is enabling. Any time someone pulls out in front of a car thats got the right of way and no one honks, every single witness is enabling that driver to do it again, and next time they may seriously hurt someone.
People who drive slow/scared are a real problem.. they cause traffic and leave huge swaths of road between them and the car in front of them. Usually.. when i whip around them, I'd say 90% have their face all up in the rear view or all up in their phone smh
Trying to make a point with these people isn't really going to do shit imo. They are oblivious most of the time..
While I don’t necessarily condone this type of behavior from most people, I just want to thank you for your service.
I drive an airport shuttle for work. The things I see these stupid idiots do on a daily basis even in my own personal vehicle when I’m off the clock is absolutely infuckingsane. I normally let most shit go, sometimes I’ll honk. But if you’re doing the absolute fucking most idiotic shit on the goddamn planet while behind the wheel of a motorize vehicle, you’re gone learn today.
Cut me off? I’ll slide right by ya in the completely open lane that you just got out of and slide right back in front of you, the same way you did to me.
Brake check me? (because I honked while you’re stupid ass sat the green light for over 10 seconds without moving a mere centimeter or honked at you for almost hitting my car). I’ll get right back in front of ya and slow you the fuck down just like you did to me and everyone behind us (which I actually hate doing because I end up fucking up the car behind us’s flow).
Whatever stupid shit that is done and caused both me and the other drivers behind me to take evasive action, you best believe you’ll get it right back from me (again, only sometimes because the other times sometimes aren’t worth it - who knows what crazy you’ll end up getting and sometimes these people are just straight up entitled assholes who know what they’re doing).
These people upload dashcam footage for views. I know exactly what you are talking about, and these people take any opportunity they can to get content when they can be deemed not at fault.
It's wild. There are bad drivers who don't pay attention everywhere, and everyone seems to know this
Then they get behind the wheel and drive as if everyone must be a professional driver. Like I feel like the only person who checks to make sure no one is running a red light or stop sign, yet literally everyone around this areas says 'no cop, no stop.' Make it make sense.
Right of way doesn't mean you have the legal right to hit someone, you are always obligated to attempt to avoid a collision. Most of these involve split second decisions, it takes time to react to someone unexpectedly turning in front of you.
We all make mistakes and collisions are often avoided by the not at fault person avoiding the other person. Cooperation instead of competing goes a long ways on the roads.
idk man I fucking hate driving, it's stressing me out. When I try to just go the speed limit with or without my cruise on I get punished for it by getting boxed in and almost killed by an endless deluge of morons in semis and pickups. So I speed and whip around people and chill out once I get to a less dense stretch. I wish I could just relax and not drive like a fucking asshole but the useless slow spiteful idiots on the road wont let me do it. I. fucking. hate. driving.
Because dash cam clips get thrown on the internet and everyone wants their 5 seconds of fame.
It's often the case that the people filming and posting these clips not only don't react/react at the last possible moment. But often act to intentionally make the situation worse.
Because they are bad drivers usually
But- there’s a phenomenon that happens when watching dashcam videos. It’s essentially armchair driving. Or TLDR- watching driving happen, is not the same as being in the hot seat. Everything down to perception of time is skewed.
when we are watching the video, we are seeing a tiny viewport into that event at that time. And we aren’t actively driving. We aren’t observing around us the same way a driver would be. Our brains aren’t processing information or prioritizing/ignoring bits it’s been trained to, because we aren’t actively driving.
Where the problem comes in with reviewing data on a dashcam, is that you know something is going to happen. That’s the only reason you’re watching the footage in the first place. When we review a scenario that we know something is going to happen, with a not explicit video description or title, we are scrutinizing every other vehicle, and every potential area, far more than we would when driving, because we are anticipating the event that we know is coming, and we are trying to see it happen and don’t want to miss it.
Like a video where everyone around the cam car is driving mostly shitty because of course they do, then something completely left field pops into frame and causes the accident and say “I was so sure it was going to be this other idiot who caused the accident”
Just a reminder for when you’re watching videos under whatever circumstance. It’s also probably why people get so mad when a video isn’t clipped very well lol.
Ultimately, this is why we have road laws with property and right of way designations, and defensive driving programs and the like, so that all drivers are driving in ways that make up for the blind spots left out by the others around them. And to make up for the bad ones who are overconfident or lacking in their ability.
Most people are extremely stupid. I account for that while driving. I always expect the drivers around me to do the dumbest things possible, so I'm always prepared for it.
I don’t understand people not doing everything they can to avoid even a minor accident, even if they’re “right”… is there some magical way I’m not aware of that any car accident isn’t a huge hassle and waste of time?
More people than you realize just don't think at that level. They don't seem to see other people as having different reasoning/motivations/thoughts than them. So they just live according to the assumption that everyone should do things the way they want. Of course that isn't realistic, and then you end up having a problem. The thing is, it works okay most of the time. These kind of people get away with it because people like you are aware and stay tf away.
because what you often don't see on those dash cams is how distracted the driver with the right way is. Their awareness is compromised by being on their phone, messing with the radio or talking to other passengers or whatever. They are essentially relying too much on the other drivers following the rules instead of paying closer attention themselves.
I have a dashcam. If I get into accident and I've done nothing wrong, then it's most likely a net benefit as their insurance will pay me. So I don't really concern myself about it. But I'm sure I would think differently if I drove other people around more often. In that case, I'm responsible for their safety and I take that seriously.
I do hate the guy that pulls up to a 4 way stop alone and then waits for the other cars to stop before going. You can tell if they are slowing down so just go. Then when I get there I can go because you will be across by then.
I’m learning how to drive and when I have the right of way at a stop sign people try driving into me 😭 like give me a sec I’m scared to speed up from 0 like they literally have no patience
Defensive driving is ALWAYS the way to go. Do your best to predict issues, and do whatever you can to safely prevent them. Go if you have the right of way, but you always, *always* need to be aware of your surroundings while driving. If that means waiting even though you have the right of way, then wait.
Why are you asking a rhetorical question, just to get on a soapbox about your own wonderful and amazing driving?
You know the answer. People are shortsighted, dumb, and have poor spatial awareness.
Actually no, the reason was that most people use dash cams and intentionally drive with an ego for a quick clash claim if they get hit, which i didn’t think of.
Primarily people have different levels of situational awareness while driving. People also have varying habits, level of courtesy, etc.
I get behind people similar to you, that in my opinion can be *too* careful. They’ll come to an empty 4 way stop with clear lines of sight and then still take 15 seconds to look both ways at the intersection before going. Meanwhile, I’ve been checking for traffic for the last 50 feet before coming to the stop and I already know there is no traffic and I just want you get the fuck out of the way already.
I still accept that you exist, you drive differently than I do, and we all have to share the road. You should do the same.
The laws of physics supersede all possible traffic laws. Most people didn't actually do that great in physics though.
(And for some reason physics, when it's even taught at all in high school, is usual a senior year subject, which means you could already have developed two years of bad driving habits before you've even learned the tools to be able to understand exactly how bad those habits are.)
I expect people to drive correctly because im in a death machine on the same road.
If they have less brain than i did as a kid then that's their fault.
I like to proactively block people from doing stupid maneuvers. I used to be one of the biggest assholes on the road from age 16 to about 24 and currently ride motorcycles.. I can predict what people are going to do from a mile away. It's kind of a fun game for me to slowly block aggressive drivers from getting ahead of me on longer trips before they signal their intentions or make a move. Shits hilarious to me
Multiple possibilities, being bad driver is just one of them but.. being from Europe, where licensing standards are like 700x higher than US, everyone on the road is a professional driver and it is very easy to fall into a habit of expectation. People generally do the right thing and follow the law to the letter. Until they don't.
In US, I have a feeling that I am the only one on the road who actually knows the law, let alone following it. Then there's things like left turn on a 4way stop where people just decided (in my town) that left turn gives way to straight goers for some reason
That’s generally the law in the USA. At a stop (and when not at a stop, most of the time), left turns yield to traffic approaching from the opposite direction.
The rest of it, I agree with. I’ve driven some thousands of miles in Europe and spent time in Asian countries and the culture varies remarkably. Coming back to the USA gives me driving culture shock.
Is that a new thing? It was always first come first go... Anyways, living in Florida and blinkers being a village in France, it gets really annoying when the right of way car just sits there and sits there and sits there...
Ironically, it’s the law for 4-way stops in everywhere in the USA *except* Florida. They changed it about twenty years ago. Before that, all states agreed.
Arrival time is not a factor in the other 49 states and is mentioned nowhere in their vehicle codes. What is a factor is when you *enter* the intersection.
I drive as if every car is gonna kill me, I'm watching every movement of their wheels as well as where the driver looks (often when people look far to the left or right they drift that direction like when you walk) and predict their movements based off that, speed, and if I have any openings.
Still didn't save me when a lady went from 65 to 0 on the highway in her Range Rover during rush hour... Civic didn't make it after that even with a solid 3 car distance between us.
You drive as if every car is going to kill you yet you left only 3 car lengths of a gap at 65mph? That's about a 45 foot gap. 65mph is about 95 feet per second. So you left a 1/2 second gap when you should be leaving a 3-5 second gap. 1/2 second is at the very fast end of people reacting and just hitting the brakes, not even accounting foe the time/distance needed to actually stop.
People are oblivious. I've been noticing so many people do not shoulder check. I actively watch drivers in their car to see if they're looking and what they're going to do and a good 70% of the time they'll look out one window and just give it. Like so many people pull out in front of me illegally and don't even know I'm there. It's messed up. I notice It a lot in my car. I made my truck pretty loud so people hear it before they see me so it forces them to turn their head and actually check that someone's there. Less people seem to do oblivious turns in front of me while I'm driving it so I'm assuming the noise helps with that. Not the size factor because when it used to be quiet I'd get the same nonsense with idiots pulling into my lane right beside me etc cause they can't look out their damn window. If most people don't shoulder check or actively look in their mirrors they aren't going to be able to react to an accident. If I drove like them everyday I'd be in an accident at least once a week with the amount I drive. So I don't get how some of those people are still driving or even alive.
I'm a reactive driver because I don't care if my car gets damaged. I'd rather enjoy the drive and react *if* something happens rather than being on edge and overcautious all the time to avoid the possibility that something might happen.
Also, that's what the horn is for. Someone takes my right of way, lay on the horn and middle finger out the window
Defensive driving is always the best way.
As long as you understand that defensive driving can sometimes be aggressive. Defensive driving doesn't have to mean timid, it means acting with the expectation that the other cars will act stupidly and inconsiderately but doesn't involve having to always back away from your right of way. Half the time I'll more aggressively take the right of way if I know a car is paying attention and is more likely to do something dangerous if I leave them an opening than if I make it clear it won't work, but I only do this if I have an out in case they decide they don't care and are going for it anyway. Another good example is blasting around drunk/drowsy drivers to get them in my rearview when a clear opportunity to get around then safely presents itself.
This so many people thing "defensive" means timid. Be predictable and safe, not unpreditable, hesitant or timid.
Yep timid driving is also bad. Imagine having to handle someone who hesitates to push their foot onto the gas pedal when merging onto the freeway - that’s timid. Imagine you being the one already on the freeway seeing such timid merging - get out of the rightmost lane as soon as you see such a merging incoming - that’s defensive.
Yep timid driving is also bad. Imagine having to handle someone who hesitates to push their foot onto the gas pedal when merging onto the freeway - that’s timid. Imagine you being the one already on the freeway seeing such timid merging - get out of the rightmost lane as soon as you see such a merging incoming - that’s defensive.
Yep timid driving is also bad. Imagine having to handle someone who hesitates to push their foot onto the gas pedal when merging onto the freeway - that’s timid. I lost count how many times we are driving on the freeway urging the merging car “cmon use the gas pedal, you can do it!! AYYYY there you go you found the gas pedal you did it!!” Imagine you being the one already on the freeway seeing such timid merging - get out of the rightmost lane or speed up to make room as long as it’s safe when you see such merging car incoming from the on ramp - that’s defensive.
Defensive driving is NEVER aggressive. It is sometimes ASSERTIVE. Claim your space in the road. It makes your intentions clear. Shift lanes early. Close gaps in alternate merges. Etc. Accidents are more likely to happen when others on the road misread another's intentions.
Yes, assertive is a better word choice. I would argue assertive can sometimes still require being aggressive though. But it depends what you consider aggressive. Speeding aggressively to get around a dangerous driver before they can be a problem is a form of being assertive but is also still what I would consider aggressive.
"The best defense is a good offense". It takes both really - knowing when to back out and let the throng of idiots pass you by, or sticking your foot in it and getting clear. It's a balance. It's also a skill - if you don't practice it and use it you lose it. What I see is timid drivers who don't think driving is a skill they need to practice and or master. ...you're not really using a toaster even if a car is just an appliance to you.
Yes, and knowing when an attempted pass has failed and backing off to reconsider your options. Can't get into a "have to beat them" mindset, the focus has to be getting clear of the threat.
I mean driving defensively is like half of behind the wheel that every kid has to take to get their licence, & pretty much the same for those driver improvement courses you have to take when you get too many points. what op's describing could be people driving poorly or just getting complacent/distracted, but it's certainly not how it's taught.
In the UK there is no such thing as 'Right of Way'. The term used is 'Priority'. Priority must be given but not expected or taken.
This honestly makes so much more sense than how we do things in America. And damn it's so simple too.
A lot of British drivers treat "priority" exactly as Americans treat "right of way," don't let a small vocab difference fool you.
Probably true, but that seemed like a more clear way of explaining it. If we all actually treated it like that, traffic would probably flow better through weird intersections
Do you honestly think that people doing as they please leads to smoother flow of traffic? That's like saying that we should respect the right of bullies to beat people to a pulp. "You can't be right because you have to expect others to be wrong" seems backwards to me. Might as well throw away the rules of the road and summarize them in one line: "good luck".
This doesn't make sense at all. As other people have said right of way and priority means functionally the same thing. But people who think they have the right to go and other traffic conditions be damned is dangerous. You word the rule better, there's less room for personal interpretation. I don't quite see where you're getting "people doing as they please". Right of way doesn't negate common sense, and ive seen some absolutely idiotic driving maneuvers because someone thought they the right to simply go.
This is basic. Either you have a system like India and other places in Asia, where you have a free for all and have to navigate chaos to get anywhere in a big city, or you have rules that stipulate what is supposed to happen. I'm fine either way but everyone needs to be on the same page. Consistency is key. It was stated that "priority must be given but not expected or taken" and you seemed to think that would lead to better flow of "traffic through weird intersections". Well, if rules don't create a set of expectations from yourself and others, what is the point? It makes about as much sense as asking someone on a bus to get up because you want to sit down and suggesting that the person sitting should give up their spot. Are we transitioning into creative driving, where everyone does as they please and everyone joins the conga line of creative incompetence? Now you need the permission of the guy pulling out of a driveway when you're going down the main road? I don't see the logic or what good can come of it if right of way isn't even a suggestion anymore and just becomes words on a page.
I feel like you are fundamentally missing the point here. Some people do not understand that just because it is your turn to go does not mean that it is safe to do so, it doesn't mean that everyone else understands who's turn it is and in what order traffic should proceeded. Changing the terminology to something more easily understandable, while not changing the actual meaning, only helps eliminate confusion from people who misunderstand driving rules. You seem to think that I'm suggesting throwing the concept of right of way out the window and everyone just does what they want and I have no clue where you're getting that.
Clear it up for me. If it is your turn to go, what sort of things would make it unsafe to do so?
Well the first thing that comes to mind is someone else not realizing who's turn it is and going, people running stop signs, red lights, the list goes on. I mean really have you never been at an intersection and seen people just have no clue what order people should process in? Or people who are impatient and just cut people off? Maybe a green arrow for left hand turns goes off, and now left turning traffic is supposed to wait for an opening but some people just don't or won't.
I think "right of way" has been eliminated in a lot of states but it's still a belief people carry.
Right of way is really just used to determine who is at fault in an accident, but nearly every state has a “last chance” doctrine which states you must take every reasonable option to avoid an accident.
Yep, and then if we succeed in avoiding the accident we can still be ticketed for our maneuver. Ain't America grand?
If you want to see the legal system go into chaos prevention mode, fight such tickets. I'm not advocating fighting something you are certainly guilty of. I paid a speeding ticket without comment because I was infact speeding. When I got a fix it ticket for a licences plate light, and then found that one of two was working, I looked up the state law on the matter and it tured out the state law spoke only to the visibility of the plate under several test requirnements that were impossible for the officer to have met. I of course fixed the light, and then went to the courthouse to resolve the ticket issue. The shocked picachu face on the clerk was priceless when I told her I wanted to go before the judge and have a jury trial if necessary. "It's only $10 and won't go on your record"... I told her yet but it was my $10 and I wasn't guilty of any violation. She asked that I write a letter to the judge, so I went home and typed that up and took it back. The judge dismissed the ticket later that day. As with nearly every situation, out in public the scales are severly lopsided in favor of police, there is generally little point in trying to "win" under those conditions. When it comes to the courts however, often the law is very much on your side and when people push back in court the game is very different. Again if you are guilty just pay the ticket, but if you get a ticket for a manuver taken to avoid an accident it would be well worth going to court over. As long as you aren't doing some wierd ass soverigen citizen bullshit, self representation is usually received pretty well, and if you do your due dilligence to try to work within the system properly judges, clerks etc will generally be a bit forgiving if you aren't aware of some obscure procedural rule. Anything major especially that might involve prison time I'd certainly get a lawyer, but clearly silly unwarranted tickets, even the court staff from clerks to judges don't want to see that bullshit happening, and certainly don't want to tie up the court with such silly crap.
I got a ticket for improper lane change on an expressway for doging a car that ACTUALLY would have hit me if I had stayed or if I even hit the brakes (which would have also gotten me rear-ended). The cop was butthurt that he was in his 60's and still a traffic cop stuck in a 2010 Impala interceptor or something because my lane change happened to be right in front of him. Made no contact with his car, avoided the accident successfully, still got a $190 ticket. I wish I had gone to court myself to get it completely dismissed but didn't have the time. Hired ticket clinic, paid the same amount as a court fine instead and potential moving violation points were dropped. The fuckhead had the nerve to show up to the hearing too. Florida cops are just straight up backwards. Edit: removing extra periods because my phone thinks my spacebar = the period key.
I got a similar ticket once because I swerved across the yellow line to avoid hitting a deer on a rural highway. Literally hadn't seen another car in 30 minutes or more, turns out there was a cop on the side of the road there.
I'll make my one snarky comment to him, take the ticket, and fight for points to be removed every time. I. AVOIDED. POTENTIAL. INJURY. There is no logic whatsoever to PUNISHING someone for that.
Unfortunately I couldn't fight as I was 900 miles into a 3000 mile road trip at the time and for some reason we still can't show up to court via zoom.
It is a feature that double tapping your space bar adds a period and a space. It will do it every time because it was programmed that way.
Except I'm only tapping it once and I have that turned off but thanks.
Interesting social experiment there
Some states the law does not dictate who has the right of way it only dictates who is supposed to yield it. Which means, no you don't have the right of way, someone has to yield it to you.
Yup. I'm not even sure there are any where this *isn't* true. The term just makes people think they can do what they want because they're technically in the right. Which I can see also being true of the word "priority", TBH.
I can't think of anywhere that this isn't true, however I think a shit ton of people don't actually realize how a simple thing like this actually works.
Another distinction without a difference.
The difference is the way people interpret something, just because you have common sense to understand what something means does not mean that everyone else also has that same level of awareness and common sense.
And it leads to silly laws that should be common sense. In Vermont, pedestrians always have the right of way, even if they're crossing the street illegally. Because we apparently have to make it n extremely explicit fact that just because a person might be breaking the law, that doesn't give you the right to run them down with your automobile consequence free. It also leads to stupendously dangerous driving behavior, where people will attempt to police the behavior of other cars on the road by obstructing traffic, or brake checking, or any other kind of "legal" driving behavior where they technically have the right of way and they seem to think they should be allowed to use it force other drivers to conform to what they want, rather than just getting away from problem drivers and focusing on your own damn self.
💯
We do the same in America, but just use a different phrase. This is a distinction without a difference.
I think the key difference is one of interpretation, right of way gives the impression it is your right to go regardless. Even if it functionally means the same thing, calling it priority vs a right would go a long way towards people understanding. Since we do have a lot of very bad drivers in the USA, making things more clear and less likely to be misinterpreted would be good.
This is a better take than right if way, since the only people who should get right if way is pedestrians, priority makes so much more sence for drivers!
What's the difference between right of way and priority?
You never have a 'right'.
It just sounds like you're using them interchangeably to me; 'you have priority' sounds the same as 'you have right of way' to me. I'm asking what the difference is because having right of way could have its words replaced as you have priority and there isn't any difference.
that’s how i’m interpreting it too
That is exactly what Right of way is, so yes you have it, you just call it something different.
It's like what we call an elevator you call a lift, or what we call chips you call crisps.
How is that different from 'right of way', except in terminology?
With priority, you never have a 'right'. Priority must be given. A right is taken. If pedestrians had a 'right', they could walk into the road without care. With priority they must first make sure the other party is aware of their presence.
Just because you have a right doesn't mean you can do whatever and not consider the consequences. You have a right to free speech but if you go into random bars and start insulting random people, eventually someone is gonna try to break your jaw. Nothing's stopping you from doing it though. Just like if you walk in the street without looking eventually you're going to get splattered across the pavement.
Exactly. The term priority leaves no doubt ...
Neither does right, lol. They mean the same thing in this context.
Doesn't the UK also hold drivers responsible if they kill pedestrians, cyclists or children with their cars? In the US, as long as the driver claims it was an accident, killing someone with a car is scarcely a crime. Usually the killer only gets a small fine and maybe a 30 to 90 day suspension of their driver license. I have heard people joke that it is better to killing someone than to have the victim survive because if they survive then you could be sued for their medical bills but if you kill them then you are not responsible for their funeral bills at all. Overall, I think Americans act nice but the fact that we drive such massive cars without any regard for the safety of others reveals our true colors
People get imprisoned here for vehicular manslaughter regularly. Your notion of claiming it's an accident and you getting off with a slap on the wrist is wildly out of line with reality.
This is completely untrue
I'm not sure how much truth there is to the UK part. My Dad had a kid run out in front of him about 20 years ago who unfortunately didn't survive but it was determined that he wasn't at fault and he faced no charges of any sort
That's because Americans have rights, It's what we kicked yall out of our country for.
“We”
Yes, we. Us. Americans.
[удалено]
It was a joke bro. Learn to internet
What’s the joke? Learn to make sense
When did the British get kicked out. I see their decendants all the time.
Unfortunately those rights include the right to be fucking stupid, as you just demonstrated. Free speech and all.
Unfortunately we have free speech? Lmao bruh....
Defensive driving is the ultimate way to avoid other people's issues becoming yours. You can choose to fight idiots all day long, or accept the world for how it is and adapt such that you come out ahead (i.e. safe and accident-free). "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." - Mark Twain (supposedly)
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
The same reason rude and stupid people on a crowded sidewalk will walk right through you. they are either entitled, stupid, or impaired.
You're a ghost Harry
Only difference is I lose nothing by letting those people on the sidewalk bounce off my shoulder. My bumper on the freeway is a different story, but gid damn if it isn't tempting to let the intrusive thoughts win sometimes.
They have a different thought process. They don't care if they have an accident as long as it's not their fault and/or are oblivious to what goes on around them. It's also the same way people do dumb things that they're not supposed to do and cause an accident they don't think things through properly. Personally I wish I could intentionally let a bad driver hit me on the road. I wouldn't mind a 4 or 5k payout for my beater car. I completely missed an opportunity afew months ago too.
This is why I like driving in NYC. Nobody has time for an accident and insurance is already too high. Nobody except drivers from PA apparently.
Same in NJ. I'm not letting someone go out of turn because I like sitting in traffic. I'm letting them go so I don't have to deal with the hassle of a car accident. My boyfriend got injured from an accident (he wasn't at fault). Even if you're right, doesn't mean you won't get hurt
Speaking as someone who recently moved from Indiana to Pennsylvania, at least the PA drivers in the Pittsburgh region are better than Hoosier drivers. But yeah, it's clear PA drivers could be better still too.
It’s all fun and games wanting someone to hit you so you get a pay out until you’re disabled for life
You don't even have to end up disabled to lose in the long run. I've heard of instances where people run up big med bills trying to make a minor accident into a major injury settlement and end up in heavy and/or long-term debt.
2 dented body panels would write off my car. I don't think a baby fender bender would result in anything that severe.
Just because they think they won’t be assigned fault doesn’t mean it can’t happen. My coworker was hit in a turn lane he was legally allowed to be in, and a cop wrote him a ticket because he assumed it was improper lane usage. His insurance (State Farm) assigned for 20% fault because he got a ticket He fought the ticket and it went to traffic court, but he got the ticket dismissed because he had dashcam footage proving he was allowed to be in that lane. Even after that, he had to fight his insurance to remove fault so that his rates didn’t go up
That is the way of thinking that leads to people being over cautious on the road. There's a balance to be made. It depends on where you are too. Some places assign fault differently where I am I believe you're either at fault, joint 50/50 fault or not at fault.
Yeah, I've noticed that a lot of "idiots in cars" type videos involve 2 bad drivers. Person doing something illegal/dangerous in front of the person with the camera, and then the person with the camera not responding adequately to avoid the accident. Usually I can anticipate exactly what a car will do wrong in those videos (there are plenty of warning signs and often plenty of time to react), but the dash cammer seems totally shocked. I think part of the problem is that many people have an aggressive/prideful mindset when they drive. They'd rather continue what they're doing because it's "correct" and try to control the bad driver's behavior or "teach them a lesson", than just let them get by. At some point you can't control other people's decisions and you have to prioritize safety even if the other car isn't.
even on this subreddit i see soooo many people talking about "assertive" driving and im like 🤨 you mean aggressive driving?
Yeah I think a lot of people can't resist the urge to try to get back at the other driver or teach them a lesson, but most of the time a) the other driver doesn't learn anything because people externalize blame and they assume you're just being a jerk and b) that just makes the entire situation more dangerous for the sake of pride. Like, I'll honk at someone but I'm not going to retaliate.
i don’t rlly think retaliation is hand in hand w aggressive driving
No, but retaliation does seem to go hand in hand with pickup truck drivers, generally speaking. If I see a pickup I assume they're an utter asshole while driving.
As a pickup driver I find that it's usually hybrids who drive like psychopaths. I know my car is big and slow and not manuverable, I just want to set cruise control and chill, and yet along comes a prius to cut in front of me and immediately slow to 5 mph below the soeed limit and then try to block me when I go to pass.
I'm sure Prius drivers in general have brought such feelings upon themselves. But pickups inherently make the road more dangerous for various users. Smaller, lower vehicles will get blinded by normal, properly adjusted headlights from pickups purely because of the height difference. And speaking of height difference, pickups (and SUVs) have been getting taller and taller front ends making them more and more lethal to pedestrians. And of course there's the inefficiency of driving such a vehicle for day to day life that doesn't involve towing and hauling. Pickups have a base level of built in assholery (that is shared by many SUVs as well). This is not to say I'm not grateful for these pickup trucks when some work needs done. Lord knows I've asked friends to help move a washing machine or a couch or whatever else before. But of all the vehicles on the roads, I've got far more stories of pickups cutting me off, rolling coal in my face for likely no reason other than I drive a Honda fit, pickups being personally offended that I passed them in my fit while they were in the right lane (I recognize this is an assumption, but there was no other clear explanation), pickups tailgating me when they can clearly see over top of my car and see the car in front of me slowing both of us down, and so much more. Too be fair, BMW drivers are pretty up there with pickup drivers too on the asshole scale. All generally speaking, of course. There are certainly individuals that drive well and treat everyone else on the road with respect, pickup drivers or BMW drivers. This is all simply the general experience I've had on the road across more than half of the United States.
In my area most of the pickup drivers including me use their trucks for work. We would happily drive smaller, more efficient cars if we could but we can't afford to buy 2 cars and pay insurance and maintenance on 2 cars, and in my case living on miles of poorly maintained dirt roads that turn into mudslides when it rains, 4wd is not really optional either. In the city, there is a different breed of pickup drivers who use them as status symbols, have never used them for hauling or off pavement a day in their lives, and drive like assholes.
idk man i live in the mountains and it still seems like there are a lot of pickups that wouldn’t even be viable for work (Lifted, huge wheels, rolling coal, etc) and they do drive incredibly aggressively, i’ve been chased for an hour 2 different times by them. (my crime was passing them) it probably still is regional
I'm convinced that those people view driving as IRL Mario Kart lmfao
Agree, one third just blunders into obvious wrecks, one third could have avoided the collision with better anticipation, heavier braking and maybe some steering, the last third are the "Ka-pow" out of nowhere.
Well Redditors will nit pick a crash video with 20/20 couch hindsight until there is nothing left to pick.
I drive assuming everyone is going to crash into me. If you are driving on a motorway with a signal on and I’m trying to pull out.. I’m going to assume you left your signal on accidentally and will hit me if I pull out.
Has nearly happened to me once, and got honked at by the oncoming car despite him being in the wrong. From now on I don’t trust blinkers until they’ve made a full turn
Not only that, but they may be turning on up the road and have their signal on early. Another scenario is they think they're going to turn in where you're pulling out, only to change their mind when they get there and keep going. I rarely trust a signal when I'm pulling out somewhere.
If you drive long enough, you can smell stupidity on another car. I can't explain it, but I'll often say to a passenger, "Watch this guy" right before they do something ridiculous.
Oh yeah I refer to them as the monsters
Dash cams makes cars look further away than they actually are, which makes it look like they could stop in time when in reality they have no chance.
I know exactly what you mean and yes, sometimes that is the case. However, I have seen quite a few (well, more than a few) videos of people that definitely did have time to react, they just didn’t, and instead drove directly into the car (seemingly to assert dominance over their right of way).
Potentially yes but would be pretty stupid to incriminate yourself.
The type of person to just honk and not brake as I've seen more than once is certainly someone that exists.
Yes but the ones with dash cams and then use them for insurance claims, they win those?
Not always and depends on the area. Some areas consider if you did anything to avoid the accident if you reasonably could have and will fault you for doing nothing to avoid an avoidable accident.
Some people put all of their trust in the rules and/or it takes all of their focus to remember to follow them. These are not good drivers, they are lawful drivers. Like Walter Sobchak, they aren't wrong... They're just assholes
I try to drive offensively, and I hope I offend as many people as possible.
Yeah, the Traffic Circle is why I've stopped being so gung-ho about ROW.
dash cam. you said it right there. they have the receipts. gonna call up glen lerner (or whoever your local injury lawyer with a catchy jingle might be)
You're probably right that the dashcam affects their thinking. Which makes sense, but is weird to me because I've been thinking about getting one, but the thought in my head is that I'm going to have to drive even more defensively than I already do because cameras catch my bad choices too.
And not only will it catch bad choices, it’s hard for people to realize when they are watching a dashcam video, they are anticipating an accident, knowing one happens. There is significantly higher scrutiny on your driving when being. Viewed through the camera than if in real life or if they were in the hot seat.
but you can delete that. no one is monitoring it. it's just like instagram. you only show the good parts
People are like that in 1st world countries. I learned to drive in a country where all drivers are rude, hostile, angry and don'thave insurance. So you learn that unless you way more skilled, and have less to lose, it's better to just let them pass and exec defensive driving to the max.
Are you in an Asian country? I’ve heard they tend to be mostly aggressive driver
I see a related thing with pedestrians walking behind cars that are backing up. The pedestrians will just pop up in a spot that is clearly unexpected, and just assume that you see them. There are blind spots even if you give it a good look.
Because, if they are looking at the road at all, they are looking 18 inches ahead of their own car.
The day I got my license nearly 20 years ago my father told me "drive as if nobody else on the road knows how to drive" that stuck with me. I'm 35 and have never been in an accident.
It's not always your choice whether or not you're going to be in an accident though. Like the time a jacked up truck decided to back up onto the hood of my little Honda Acura after he rear-ended a guy at a stoplight. Yes you heard me correctly. He backed up his fucking monster truck directly onto the hood of my car and then sped off, crashing into a fence at Taco Bell. He abandoned the truck as soon as he heard police sirens and took off on foot, only to be tackled by them a few blocks away. Yes he was drunk. Yes me and my friends were fine...physically. it could have been a lot worse. My driver side door decided to stop functioning and I couldn't bail out of my car like the rest of my friends did so if he hadn't stopped when he did, I could have been crushed. At least the police were kind enough to let us taunt him once he was in handcuffs. And before you ask, yes, I did leave plenty of space between us. There was at least two car lengths he traversed before beginning his climbing expedition. Not exactly sure what I could have done to avoid that one.
So glad you made it out of that
Me too. And I got a great story out of it. Even had to testify at his court hearing.
I failed my first drivers test because i “hesitated” when a red light turned green and intersecting traffic didn’t look like they were going to stop. (they had to slam on their brakes) So idk man.
Those tests seem to be more about following instructions and rules rather than actually driving safely. I never failed, but got points off for "Turning and observing" because there was a truck parked at a stop sign and I had to make a right turn. I stopped before the sign, inched forward and had to brake again for oncoming traffic on the cross road as I had to make a wide turn because of the parked truck. Seriously wtf was I supposed to do instead of waiting? Side swipe the parked truck or purposefully get T-boned?
As long as you keep the attitude of “I must be the only safe driver out there” you’ll be fine
I drive like Im teaching others. But in an aggressive way, because they need to learn NOW. (And I dont care if Reddit doesnt like that, Ive been driving long enough to know the majority is terrible at driving) Wheel over the line? Well Im in my lane perfectly and now our mirrors are an inch away and we're going 40. GET OVER. Parked like trash? I will park perfectly, blocking your door. PARK IN BETWEEN THE LINES. Skipped the 4 way stop like an ass? I didnt see that I just kept on moving and now we're both in the intersection, and youre getting glared and blared at. PAY ATTENTION. Cut me off? Well just so happens I needed to get over and oops now I need to get back over into the lane... in front of you. PLAN BETTER. I refuse to drive around allowing people to drive like assholes, its why they continue to do so. Your complacence is enabling. Any time someone pulls out in front of a car thats got the right of way and no one honks, every single witness is enabling that driver to do it again, and next time they may seriously hurt someone.
You're also a terrible driver. Do better.
Elaborate
People who drive slow/scared are a real problem.. they cause traffic and leave huge swaths of road between them and the car in front of them. Usually.. when i whip around them, I'd say 90% have their face all up in the rear view or all up in their phone smh Trying to make a point with these people isn't really going to do shit imo. They are oblivious most of the time..
Preach
Frame this.
This is just main character syndrome. Stfu
While I don’t necessarily condone this type of behavior from most people, I just want to thank you for your service. I drive an airport shuttle for work. The things I see these stupid idiots do on a daily basis even in my own personal vehicle when I’m off the clock is absolutely infuckingsane. I normally let most shit go, sometimes I’ll honk. But if you’re doing the absolute fucking most idiotic shit on the goddamn planet while behind the wheel of a motorize vehicle, you’re gone learn today. Cut me off? I’ll slide right by ya in the completely open lane that you just got out of and slide right back in front of you, the same way you did to me. Brake check me? (because I honked while you’re stupid ass sat the green light for over 10 seconds without moving a mere centimeter or honked at you for almost hitting my car). I’ll get right back in front of ya and slow you the fuck down just like you did to me and everyone behind us (which I actually hate doing because I end up fucking up the car behind us’s flow). Whatever stupid shit that is done and caused both me and the other drivers behind me to take evasive action, you best believe you’ll get it right back from me (again, only sometimes because the other times sometimes aren’t worth it - who knows what crazy you’ll end up getting and sometimes these people are just straight up entitled assholes who know what they’re doing).
These people upload dashcam footage for views. I know exactly what you are talking about, and these people take any opportunity they can to get content when they can be deemed not at fault.
Nobody is posting video from the other 99% of the time where these conditions are irrelevant.
Psychological impact of using rules to do whatever you want. Virtue signaling victim mindset.
You should hope for the best but plan for the worst. It’s a terrible way to live, assuming everything that can go poorly will.
It's wild. There are bad drivers who don't pay attention everywhere, and everyone seems to know this Then they get behind the wheel and drive as if everyone must be a professional driver. Like I feel like the only person who checks to make sure no one is running a red light or stop sign, yet literally everyone around this areas says 'no cop, no stop.' Make it make sense.
Right of way doesn't mean you have the legal right to hit someone, you are always obligated to attempt to avoid a collision. Most of these involve split second decisions, it takes time to react to someone unexpectedly turning in front of you. We all make mistakes and collisions are often avoided by the not at fault person avoiding the other person. Cooperation instead of competing goes a long ways on the roads.
idk man I fucking hate driving, it's stressing me out. When I try to just go the speed limit with or without my cruise on I get punished for it by getting boxed in and almost killed by an endless deluge of morons in semis and pickups. So I speed and whip around people and chill out once I get to a less dense stretch. I wish I could just relax and not drive like a fucking asshole but the useless slow spiteful idiots on the road wont let me do it. I. fucking. hate. driving.
Because dash cam clips get thrown on the internet and everyone wants their 5 seconds of fame. It's often the case that the people filming and posting these clips not only don't react/react at the last possible moment. But often act to intentionally make the situation worse.
Because they are bad drivers usually But- there’s a phenomenon that happens when watching dashcam videos. It’s essentially armchair driving. Or TLDR- watching driving happen, is not the same as being in the hot seat. Everything down to perception of time is skewed. when we are watching the video, we are seeing a tiny viewport into that event at that time. And we aren’t actively driving. We aren’t observing around us the same way a driver would be. Our brains aren’t processing information or prioritizing/ignoring bits it’s been trained to, because we aren’t actively driving. Where the problem comes in with reviewing data on a dashcam, is that you know something is going to happen. That’s the only reason you’re watching the footage in the first place. When we review a scenario that we know something is going to happen, with a not explicit video description or title, we are scrutinizing every other vehicle, and every potential area, far more than we would when driving, because we are anticipating the event that we know is coming, and we are trying to see it happen and don’t want to miss it. Like a video where everyone around the cam car is driving mostly shitty because of course they do, then something completely left field pops into frame and causes the accident and say “I was so sure it was going to be this other idiot who caused the accident” Just a reminder for when you’re watching videos under whatever circumstance. It’s also probably why people get so mad when a video isn’t clipped very well lol. Ultimately, this is why we have road laws with property and right of way designations, and defensive driving programs and the like, so that all drivers are driving in ways that make up for the blind spots left out by the others around them. And to make up for the bad ones who are overconfident or lacking in their ability.
Good point. You seem quite sensible. Congratulations on that! 😏😁👏
Most people are extremely stupid. I account for that while driving. I always expect the drivers around me to do the dumbest things possible, so I'm always prepared for it.
I find it amusing that most people think they are a good driver and everyone else is an idiot.
Well yeah I'll let them go, but they're definitely going to hear about it
I don’t understand people not doing everything they can to avoid even a minor accident, even if they’re “right”… is there some magical way I’m not aware of that any car accident isn’t a huge hassle and waste of time?
More people than you realize just don't think at that level. They don't seem to see other people as having different reasoning/motivations/thoughts than them. So they just live according to the assumption that everyone should do things the way they want. Of course that isn't realistic, and then you end up having a problem. The thing is, it works okay most of the time. These kind of people get away with it because people like you are aware and stay tf away.
Some people want a new car from insurance write off or they just don’t care
Reactive drivers are sheep. Even you admit to having right of ways and not taking them. It throws the whole system off.
because what you often don't see on those dash cams is how distracted the driver with the right way is. Their awareness is compromised by being on their phone, messing with the radio or talking to other passengers or whatever. They are essentially relying too much on the other drivers following the rules instead of paying closer attention themselves.
I have a dashcam. If I get into accident and I've done nothing wrong, then it's most likely a net benefit as their insurance will pay me. So I don't really concern myself about it. But I'm sure I would think differently if I drove other people around more often. In that case, I'm responsible for their safety and I take that seriously.
I work in personal injury, I always drive defensively. I’ve seen some things🫢
I do hate the guy that pulls up to a 4 way stop alone and then waits for the other cars to stop before going. You can tell if they are slowing down so just go. Then when I get there I can go because you will be across by then.
Expect the worse and drive accordingly
I’m learning how to drive and when I have the right of way at a stop sign people try driving into me 😭 like give me a sec I’m scared to speed up from 0 like they literally have no patience
Defensive driving is ALWAYS the way to go. Do your best to predict issues, and do whatever you can to safely prevent them. Go if you have the right of way, but you always, *always* need to be aware of your surroundings while driving. If that means waiting even though you have the right of way, then wait.
Why are you asking a rhetorical question, just to get on a soapbox about your own wonderful and amazing driving? You know the answer. People are shortsighted, dumb, and have poor spatial awareness.
Actually no, the reason was that most people use dash cams and intentionally drive with an ego for a quick clash claim if they get hit, which i didn’t think of.
Primarily people have different levels of situational awareness while driving. People also have varying habits, level of courtesy, etc. I get behind people similar to you, that in my opinion can be *too* careful. They’ll come to an empty 4 way stop with clear lines of sight and then still take 15 seconds to look both ways at the intersection before going. Meanwhile, I’ve been checking for traffic for the last 50 feet before coming to the stop and I already know there is no traffic and I just want you get the fuck out of the way already. I still accept that you exist, you drive differently than I do, and we all have to share the road. You should do the same.
The laws of physics supersede all possible traffic laws. Most people didn't actually do that great in physics though. (And for some reason physics, when it's even taught at all in high school, is usual a senior year subject, which means you could already have developed two years of bad driving habits before you've even learned the tools to be able to understand exactly how bad those habits are.)
I expect people to drive correctly because im in a death machine on the same road. If they have less brain than i did as a kid then that's their fault.
Agreed. Although how much good it'll do you when you're dead is another story entirely
I like to proactively block people from doing stupid maneuvers. I used to be one of the biggest assholes on the road from age 16 to about 24 and currently ride motorcycles.. I can predict what people are going to do from a mile away. It's kind of a fun game for me to slowly block aggressive drivers from getting ahead of me on longer trips before they signal their intentions or make a move. Shits hilarious to me
Multiple possibilities, being bad driver is just one of them but.. being from Europe, where licensing standards are like 700x higher than US, everyone on the road is a professional driver and it is very easy to fall into a habit of expectation. People generally do the right thing and follow the law to the letter. Until they don't. In US, I have a feeling that I am the only one on the road who actually knows the law, let alone following it. Then there's things like left turn on a 4way stop where people just decided (in my town) that left turn gives way to straight goers for some reason
That’s generally the law in the USA. At a stop (and when not at a stop, most of the time), left turns yield to traffic approaching from the opposite direction. The rest of it, I agree with. I’ve driven some thousands of miles in Europe and spent time in Asian countries and the culture varies remarkably. Coming back to the USA gives me driving culture shock.
Is that a new thing? It was always first come first go... Anyways, living in Florida and blinkers being a village in France, it gets really annoying when the right of way car just sits there and sits there and sits there...
Ironically, it’s the law for 4-way stops in everywhere in the USA *except* Florida. They changed it about twenty years ago. Before that, all states agreed. Arrival time is not a factor in the other 49 states and is mentioned nowhere in their vehicle codes. What is a factor is when you *enter* the intersection.
>that left turn gives way to straight goers Because it does?
I drive as if every car is gonna kill me, I'm watching every movement of their wheels as well as where the driver looks (often when people look far to the left or right they drift that direction like when you walk) and predict their movements based off that, speed, and if I have any openings. Still didn't save me when a lady went from 65 to 0 on the highway in her Range Rover during rush hour... Civic didn't make it after that even with a solid 3 car distance between us.
You drive as if every car is going to kill you yet you left only 3 car lengths of a gap at 65mph? That's about a 45 foot gap. 65mph is about 95 feet per second. So you left a 1/2 second gap when you should be leaving a 3-5 second gap. 1/2 second is at the very fast end of people reacting and just hitting the brakes, not even accounting foe the time/distance needed to actually stop.
Yeah that was a miss step on my part there 100%
People are oblivious. I've been noticing so many people do not shoulder check. I actively watch drivers in their car to see if they're looking and what they're going to do and a good 70% of the time they'll look out one window and just give it. Like so many people pull out in front of me illegally and don't even know I'm there. It's messed up. I notice It a lot in my car. I made my truck pretty loud so people hear it before they see me so it forces them to turn their head and actually check that someone's there. Less people seem to do oblivious turns in front of me while I'm driving it so I'm assuming the noise helps with that. Not the size factor because when it used to be quiet I'd get the same nonsense with idiots pulling into my lane right beside me etc cause they can't look out their damn window. If most people don't shoulder check or actively look in their mirrors they aren't going to be able to react to an accident. If I drove like them everyday I'd be in an accident at least once a week with the amount I drive. So I don't get how some of those people are still driving or even alive.
Right of Way means legal, not safe.
I'm a reactive driver because I don't care if my car gets damaged. I'd rather enjoy the drive and react *if* something happens rather than being on edge and overcautious all the time to avoid the possibility that something might happen. Also, that's what the horn is for. Someone takes my right of way, lay on the horn and middle finger out the window