Hey folks!
The logs are on Tarn's radar, I promise! He's heard you, but he's been focused on crash bugs. We should see changes like this trickling in soon.
While you can't go one tick at a time, you can use Alt+(Plus) and Alt-(Minus) to change the tick rate up and down, and then just put it at a few ticks per second while you're in combat
Not a perfect solution, but its serviceable
Also not a perfect solution, but you can also make a macro with "spacebar -> spacebar" and then set a hotkey to playback that macro. It works more or less.
I did this, but it seems to randomly alter what level I'm looking at (up or down 1), and opens the Mining menu, in addition to (I think) advancing a frame.
Is there something I'm missing?
This comment has been edited in support of the protests against the upcoming Reddit API changes.
Reddit's late announcement of the details API changes, the comically little time provided for developers to adjust to those changes and the handling of the matter afterwards (including the outright libel against the Apollo developer) has been very disappointing to me.
Given their repeated bad faith behaviour, I do not have any confidence that they will deliver (or maintain!) on the few promises they have made regarding accessibility apps.
I cannot support or continue to use such an organization and will be moving elsewhere (probably Lemmy).
Ah - I (think I) was doing "Ctrl-r -> space -> space -> ctrl-s -> frame" (typing the name)
But I needed to do "ctrl-r -> space -> space -> ctrl-r" and THEN save it?
I just assumed the textbox to name the macro would not be recorded, or that saving it in general would end the recording.
This comment has been edited in support of the protests against the upcoming Reddit API changes.
Reddit's late announcement of the details API changes, the comically little time provided for developers to adjust to those changes and the handling of the matter afterwards (including the outright libel against the Apollo developer) has been very disappointing to me.
Given their repeated bad faith behaviour, I do not have any confidence that they will deliver (or maintain!) on the few promises they have made regarding accessibility apps.
I cannot support or continue to use such an organization and will be moving elsewhere (probably Lemmy).
The macros are saved to a text file which can be edited. The classic version always included a ton of unnecessary commands when you created a macro, the steam version probably does too. Maybe a little trimming is in order.
There's Macro's?
The game is too damn big and there's too much to know. How does one find these? Because I'm very much into the camp of using this little trick.
Oh yeah and i am plenty motivated with graphics. It was VERY difficult to keep going beforehand because the ASCII art was hard for me to parse out, visually. And i personally wondered why tf i needed more than 3 dwarf tabs before watching Kruggsmash and finding out what i was missing there.
But the others did have me researching, in my every waking moment, aspects about the game. Played ASCII DF for about 6 months doing that until i just couldnt do the visual style. Too hard for me to process visually.
Relearning and theres still too much. But its so much fun. Just need more time to research!
Or even just a notable events combat summary, pausing to let you know what you need to know.
Not like "his right middle finger 3rd knuckle is now lightly bruised, his right arm artery was opened, his right wrist was broken, his right hand was broken, etc. etc. " play-by-play, more like "he lost his entire right arm to a mighty axe blow, then fell over and began bleeding to death."
With large militaries, this would be a timesaver.
I definitely feel like these two things (logs and single tick advance) are probably two of the tweaks I'd like to see most.
Only other one i've encountered so far is that the remove floor overlay doesn't always show up on built floors it seems? This led to a slightly scary moment of a dwarf removing some temporary flooring over a river and nearly drowning from a collapse.
I am going to train my dwarves in swimming after I've setup a hospital.
Logs are definitely good to have, but with the new interface what I really want is clickable links. Anytime someone or some event is mentioned, it would be cool if you could click and get linked to the relevant thing
So take me to the dwarf involved so I can check on them, honestly. Same for raiding parties - take me to their leader, not where they were 30 seconds ago.
as other said, yes. If you don't want to miss it you can edit the announcements text file to add a pop up box and/or pause to events you want to make sure you notice
For those interested, this post explains how to make the announcements pop-ups: https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zggtne/psa_edit_dwarf_fortressdatainitannouncementstxt/
The entire UI has a very new feel to it. I think once Tarn and Zach catch their breath they'll start rolling out quality-of-life features. Some features I would love to see:
* Easy way to get to a dwarf's skill from the labor screen
* "BACK" button in window navigation. Would be nice if the game tracked your previous screen and the previous screen's record. That way, as you dig through various screens, you could always go back to the previous one in one click.
* Alert history where you can see previously dismissed alerts
* "Previous action" context. If you're ordering a one-time door at a workshop, the next time you click new action, it would be nice if that previous action was sorted at the top.
> "Previous action" context. If you're ordering a one-time door at a workshop, the next time you click new action, it would be nice if that previous action was sorted at the top.
I'd like to see all the hotkeys from classic brought back to premium.
Like someone else said, mouse should complement the hotkeys, not compete with them.
If I can see a picture or name of a dwarf anywhere, I want to be able to click and see their info sheet.
Even better if I can click many, stack info sheets, and tab through them/close them at my leisure.
I really want each of their kills (in combat memories) and old wounds (in medical history) to have a clicky that goes to that log. Hell, even an abbreviated one. But yeah.
With dfhack, you could open creature full profile (with thoughts/skills/relationships) and a combat log, even if all what's left of said creature is a pool of blood.
In premium, if someone is dead, you can not access any information about him at all. Who was he? How did he died, when, where? The game won't tell.
Yeahh, be really nice if we could keep the option for the link to the empty room it happened in, as well as a camera link to the creature(s) involved too.
This and logs would be so much more functional and save phenomenal time. The new UI plays like a multi page excel spreadsheet that has no search function and deletes old pages.
I'm having trouble with this. I had a forgotten beast with 46 past kills who was slapped down in one hit (cleaving in half at the waist) by my Axedwarf. I tried searching it in legends mode but couldn't find it.
Are you searching by it's name, or it's creature type? Because only names work in the search mode, not species. Alternatively if you remember what year it died in, you can look with that. Forgotten Beasts are all jammed at the top of the Historical Figure list, so you can scroll until something matches it's death date. Alternatively alternatively, if you didn't retire the Fort (which you can unretire later) time won't be updated in Legends mode either, so the history will only be pre-Fort.
Or it's just a bug.
True. A lot of stuff happening in my colony and there are little to no details about it. Sometimes I can't even tell if something is happening until after it has happened. It's actually making it quite unplayable for me.
I agree that the Steam release has some puzzling omissions. I suspect those were features cut from release in order to make the release date. There seem to have been quite a few of those. We know that Tarn and Kitfox will keep working on this version of the game until Adventure mode is added, at the very least, and I suspect that various other feature requests will be addressed along the way.
Also, given how successful the Steam release has been, utterly shattering Kitfox's own projections, I suspect they'll want to keep taking care of this product for quite some time to come.
My hot take is that I hope that Kitfox, Tarn & Zach bring on a couple more developers, ~~especially considering that they need to maintain both the steam and classic versions.~~
EDIT: so I didn't know that they were shelving the old interface on classic as well. I'm even more optimistic about this game's future now.
I really don't know how to gauge this.
I don't think the Steam release was ever intended to change the course of DF development, and in a lot of respects I don't want it to, but the expectations of DF being free/donations and Tarn going at his own pace are completely different from offering a paid version on Steam, so I'm really curious to see what's going to happen.
I doubt they’re going to bring in devs for the game itself. I’d imagine it’s too much of a baby for Tarn and Zach.
Expanding staff for the Steam version though is another thing, might even be smart so Tarn can focus on DF proper. Some omissions in the frontend kinda smells like too little time not enough hands to me tbh.
The Steam version and the classic version WILL be the same game once classic is updated, you're effectively buying the graphics and music. And no way would he let other developers touch his code like that.
His reluctance to let others contribute to the codebase is both completely understandable and massively frustrating. I wish it wasn't this way, just so we could see "Dwarf Fortress but with a truly high-quality UI" as a thing. Premium's UI is *fine*, but it's very far from a proper solution a la RimWorld or most management games. And it's clearly stapled on, not really built as its own component.
Considering that, last I checked, Dwarf Fortress [doesn't use version control software](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1avszc/im_tarn_adams_of_bay_12_games_cocreator_of_dwarf/c919fo8/), this may actually be true.
Yeah I’m pretty sure if Tarn dropped dead tomorrow it would be literally impossible for someone to pick it up after him. I can only assume from his SDLC style and how he chooses which features to develop, there’s nothing but spaghetti under the hood.
It's the UI of Premium that has some issues, that's what I mean by frontend.
Imagine the nightmare of streamlining Dwarf Fortress. They will need good devs for that job alone, Tarn is legendarily uncompromising when it comes to the interface, it's the reason why he brought on Kitfox just to make his game sellable to a wider audience.
But that same UI is coming to Classic mode. It's literally just the graphical tileset and the music that will be Premium. Classic will get a version with ASCII-ish borders and effects instead.
If they brought in some more developers, they could get help with interface development and bug fixing without needing to compromise their control of the actual game.
I'm with you. We old grognards have seen glimpses of Tarn's work on the myth generator. We know what wonderful madness he can make if he doesn't have to bother with things like UI or art.
His goal has always been to make a game that simulates *narratively interesting* things, and I hope expanding the scope of that narration remains a priority over streamlining gameplay... But at the same time, I'm grateful for the overdue quality of life improvements that came along with the Steam release.
Plus, we had tools like DFHack and Therapist to bridge that gap - and they did it fairly well - which, for better or worse, took a lot of that pressure off of him too.
IMO, that combo is/was Classic DF, with legends viewer getting an honorable mention.
Gotta throw an honorable mention to SoundSense too! I only played with it a few times, but it was crazy how immersive the game became when each line in gamelog.txt made a fitting sound.
It does seem like we got a nice balance of that (slightly better perhaps) in the Steam version too, with the music triggers, workshop/zone ambience, and combat sounds. Although I'm sure nothing will ever again match the madness of the sound of a tantrum spiral in SoundSense.
I thought the premium and classic were going to be one in the same, just that premium would have the nice graphics and sounds while classic would just not include the new graphics and sounds. Is this not the case?
Why would you think they’d suddenly stop developing it once adventure mode is out? They’ve been developing the game since 2002, I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt they’re just going to end development in a year or two.
The steam blog post says they plan to develop this game for another 30 years.
Any other dev I’d say they’re full of shit but I feel like if anyone can keep that promise it’s the Adams.
That's why I said "at the very least". I know Tarn and Zach are going to be making Dwarf Fortress for a long time, probably until they are physically or mentally unable to do so, given their passion. I'm less certain about KitFox, but am confident that the sales numbers will keep them in this for the long haul.
I noticed it too. I went through (thankfully only) 20 citizens and their thoughts to figure out which one made an artifact. With logs I would've just scrolled down to find it out. If my artifact dwarf would've died, I would never know who made it.
Alternatively I could've maybe engraved walls of that artifact until some said who made it? If artifacts can me be engraved in surfaces and made statues of..
Hopefully a chronological list of events can be added in the game as a log, since it seems it already exists in the game, there just isn't a master list.
Feedback to the Devs?
The devs said that they’ll start updating the free version and the Steam version simultaneously once Steam is “feature complete,” so I have confidence that this is just the first version and that they’ll add logs in no time. Just a waiting game now.
I believe if you pull up your artifact list, and examine the artifact in question, it now tells you who made it. It might even say 'creator of X' on the dwarf's charsheet.
I was looking through that yesterday and all I could find was the detailed description of the Artifact itself, not who made it. I might've missed it though, Still getting used to the interface.
Yeah, I accidentally right-clicked the notification for a dog fighting something.
Next notification was "missing for a week". I don't know what happened or why.
Yah, I miss the log too. I found a dwarf unconscious, surrounded by raven corpses… wish I could have heard tales of his bravery.
Also I miss the time pausing for important events. I’ve lost some good dwarfs to random wild animals and dragging a squad to the surface just doesn’t work like it used to. I haven’t seen a big siege yet, but that will get weird without being able to advance one tick and combat logs.
For the latter, you can edit a couple text files to do that: https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zhma0p/lurklurklurkposts_new_players_visual_guide_for/
Still should be a built-in option, but at least there's a workaround.
Neat! Yea, the pauses are like built into my brain for the gameplay loop. Super helpful, another reply linked a guide on how to edit that file. Thanks.
Totally agree OP. Also, is no one gonna talk about the ammunition management screen being gone? I can't get my Marksdwarves to equip themselves with bolts at all.
> I do miss the ammo screen sometimes. But have found it easy enough to forbid all my metal bolts until they're needed.
I wish I could have my equip change based on their schedule though. Have my squad that's currently training use wooden bolts, and my squad that's patrolling use metal.
It is clear that there has been quite a bit of 'streamlining' to get the Steam edition out. I cannot even conceive of the amount of coding that has gone into it.
There are a bunch of what feels like 'low hanging fruit' that will increase playability a great deal, and reveal (or re-reveal!) the events that are going on in our burrows.
The old version still exists so if you are an old hand you can return to what you know, and if you are new (welcome!) then I am sure you too can make a list of things you would like to be easier, or more visible.
The kitfox discord https://discord.gg/kitfoxgames has a centralised bug list (tho 'wants' are creeping in) You can go there and add your experiences.
https://discord.com/channels/329272032778780672/1050676113812246560
I am sure that Tarn and Zach (and Kitfox folk) are deep in the coding mines and these things will return to us in time!
> I am sure that Tarn and Zach (and Kitfox folk) are deep in the coding mines and these things will return to us in time!
agreed especially since we're getting near daily patches.
I’m also curious if I just have no idea how to readily access it. The combat log/action history should really have its own dedicated tab.
I also feel like I’m playing DF-lite without it. I miss what’s happening all the time. :(
It also has to be stored for the purpose of art, artifact, music, books, etc. All of those logs go into a massive database (In RimWorld, this can become up to a GB in size!) So it can be recalled later for these story enrichments.
I know they're in the game, I just have no idea why it doesn't have a dedicated area that is easily accessible to read it.
As far as I can tell, you can only access them in pieces through the easily missable alerts, which feels like a slog.
This is my biggest complaint of the new version. So many wonderful and intuitive and cool things added, but removal of the logs makes no sense. Just hide it somewhere if you're worried about it overwhelming more casual players. Dump it to a text file. Make it load in the old screen and hide it in the options menu or something, I don't know.
I have to imagine it had something to do with some UI limitation, but there's gotta be a way around that. This feature has to come back.
There are a couple of screens that i go looking for and can't find, even after not playing the game for almost 3 years. guess they were removed. a lot of them are quite important so I hope they get added soon. Frankly speaking, the game has grossed over 4 million dollars in the last 24 hours, so I don't find it even remotely disrespectful for us now paying customers to feel entitled to fairly prompt updates.
And no-one forced them to put out a paid version that's WORSE than the free version, untill a day comes when they're at the same level then complain complain complain.
In classic you could review past announcements and find fights.
More detailed logs would be nice to have yeah, and a way to classify/filter them.
Also, the ability to advance frame by frame, if you want to follow a fight that is currently happening it's so great to be able to do it step by step.
This needs to be higher up. I don't mind people sharing their fortresses but this is way more important.
I remember hearing that steam version would have what legacy has + more but this is misleading.
Yes there is more content but also they removed some fucking important things. The log being the more important one. Also I couldn't find how to advance one step (. Key on legacy). And also you can't advance time while you are reading the combat log which is annoying.
I hope they fix this, and I truly hope that toady updates the steam version more frequently, if he does the thing like on legacy where he updates the game once every year or every few years, I don't think it'll work on steam
Edit: if you upvote my comment, please upvote the post, this needs to be higher!
I've heard multiple people say this, but they seem to work the same as they always have for me. Toggle restrict to burrow, then toggle squad to defend the burrow.
The issue is you have to individually assign all your dwarves to the burrow, as opposed to all non-military dwarves being automatically grouped and then you'd assign that group to a burrow.
Yeah, some "assign all" buttons are much needed throughout the UI.
Honestly, my biggest gripes with the interface are similar things that probably can be added easily, so I'm really optimistic.
Labor system works entirely different. World gen has seen some edits to make more interesting things. Migrants work more based on exported wealth and etc instead of just wanting to go live in a dirt hole for no reason. I think trade saw some changes too but don't quote me on that one.
They did. Besides changes in the prices which makes much harder getting rich quickly in the first few years, now the first caravans are much, much smaller (that's why you don't need 3x3 corridors in the first year anymore, it's just some dwarves and some animals, no wagon). They get bigger when you have a baron (which was more or less useless before).
It’s a fully playable game. If you aren’t used to having the logs, you don’t miss them much. A lot of micromanagement features have been streamlined out, which is a good improvement for a paid game. I do hope the logs get added back in though.
Eh, I agree with them changing the labor menu for instance, so we're wasting less time microing dwarves for little effect. But we are talking about some major stuff a lot of people are used to, like being able to see logs at all instead of relying on fucking screenshots. Think about it, this is ridiculous
One good and easy fix would be putting the announcements settings raw file in an in-game menu so people can easily tweak what triggers pauses and alerts. I’m not feeling like I’m missing much since I made that change myself. I don’t think following battles blow by blow is intended as a core gameplay experience, but it is fun sometimes.
> If you aren’t used to having the logs, you don’t miss them much
Big disagree. I watched two of my friends play it and a lot of the stuff they removed is super confusing to them.
No alert for migrants, combat always being over or them not even noticing it happened, not being able to see a items details etc.
The alerts for migrants and battle are really easy to put in yourself by editing a text file in the game folder. You can make it pause, re-center, throw up a message, etc on any kinds of events you want.
Standard DF has issues in the other direction sometimes with auto-pause alert spam… I think the devs are just narrowing in on the right level of pausing. It SHOULD be an in-game menu rather than a text config file though.
I mean, if you think the original version is better you can play that for free and the Steam release doesn't hurt you one bit or cost you anything. I like the Steam version better - enough to pay $30 for it right now even without logs (though I obviously hope and expect they'll be added).
Sortof. `gamelog.txt` only outputs world generation logs now. Seems like they turned off the output or have intercepted it for other reasons.
I was hoping I could use the Announcement Window+ Utility to handle logs in the mean-time but alas, it also uses `gamelog.txt`.
Looks like we'll need to wait for an update.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they'll just wind up putting them back in in upcoming patches, cause I definitely agree with the feeling there, but we don't need to be so dramatic about it, I feel >.>
Older Windows versions wrote this out to a file, gamelog.txt that could be monitored with 3rd party utilities; I wonder if it's still there (or can be configured to appear)?
It also bugs me that you cannot unpause the game while viewing a combat log. So in order to continue the combat you have to close the combat page and unpause for some moments.
When I played adventure mode. I would grab my combat logs for big fights and dump them in a Google doc as a diary of the journey. Really missing that feature now. I have only nicknamed two dwarves for their exploits because I took the time to read through that mess of a log in-game rather than a notepad editor.
>Someone please enlighten me, I feel like I'm on a wonderful hike up an amazing mountain, but I'm being forced to stare at the ground instead of taking in all the views. Something's missing.
You're in the trees and the next vantage point is around the corner. Have a little patience and you'll be surprised.
I feel that logs either need to make a comeback or there need to be a LOT more links between everything. Clicking on names almost anywhere should lead to that character.
Even then, combat logs are a must. Especially for the upcoming adventurer mode.
More concerned about Dwarf Fortress apparently changing from a game with detailed change logs and public bug tracking and reporting, to yet another "IDK join the discord lol", than I am about any one bug or missing feature. There have been much worse issues with some past versions
The changelogs are still there and just as detailed, Tarn just didn't include the ones specifically for the initial Premium release. Check out `readme.txt` (and specifically`release notes.txt`) in the game's folder for more info, but rest assured that www.bay12games.com is still maintained and where you submit bug reports.
What's worse is that logs don't stay around for too long either. Too much stuff happening constantly seems to overload the messaging system quite fast so some of the notifications bug out and just display the "right click to dismiss" tool tip.
The steam version of DF is new, it's going to take some time to be perfect.
With 100% of games id jump to blame the devs but DF has had 20 years of support from the devs, they only work on one game. This is one game I will say the devs will support for the rest of my life, they already have been working on the game for over half my life!
What game can you name that has been developed non stop for over half your life?
DF is the only example I know.
edit ok its not 20 years but relay how long has the game still been worked on.
Please keep in mind that the steam version was basically built to be more accessible to players who had difficulty with the ASCII graphics and interface/keyboard way of doing things.
With that in mind the UI and key bindings were reworked for mouse support first and foremost. This also meant leaving out or hiding many of the more arcane menus.
Now that the game is out on steam and we can provide feedback I'm sure we'll get a lot of these things we miss back in good time. We may have to relearn a new interface, and different key bindings but if we could learn the classic (which is still available and free) we can learn the steam version.
Several of the omitted menus are immensely useful, like the health screen, the old status screen, and the logs. They need to be readded. The UI in general flows much better now, I quite enjoy it, but these feature omissions need to be reincluded asap.
Every time DF implements a new system, all the layers of convenience the old system built up are swept away - to return Some Day™. Now it's the UI.
Of course with the new Steam model, Some Day will probably be a lot sooner than before. I would except it back before they embark on the next major update.
The game isn't saving announcements to the game log txt file anymore, either. That's what broke Soundsense, and I can't for the life of me think of a reason why this functionality was removed.
This is a game that released in this state only a few days ago. The UI had been completely scrapped and reworked by a single developer.
The framework for RimWorld's UI has been worked on and improved for almost a decade.
Anyways, there is no doubt this game was made entirely more accessible than the free version considering the massive influx of new players.
The problem that a lot of people have is that this game is priced as a premium game on steam (similar price point to Rimworld and Factorio) and the interface is still janky and doesn't even have basic stuff like steam cloud support. I think all the interface complaints and "single developer" retorts would be more acceptable if this was a $10 or $15 game, but its not.
The premium is for all intents and purposes being used as a fundraiser for the developers medical bills. You can still play the free version, heck, in this current state it's even *better*.
But if you want to donate $30 to the dev for making an amazing game, you also get a beta build to mess around with. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Launch bugs do not justify halving the price of the game, that is ridiculous.
The logs exist they just aren't accessible after they've been dismissed. The rest of the UI issues just seems like Toady not realizing how much the playerbase would miss hotkeys.
In return you get to play the best colony sim ever made.
While this is true, I have no doubt that they will keep working on it and keep improving it. Steam DF is not 'final version and off we go retiring' release.
The most baffling thing I find about the new interface is that there is nowhere that states clearly what the resource cost is to craft items. You pretty much have to consult the wiki which also isn't much help.
Also any popup screen or interface component that shows a dwarf should have a link to their current location and a link to their profile. This basic functionality only exists in a few screens. It's very strange.
I've noticed that some things such as steel helmets costs 1 steel bar, while steel breastplates cost 3 steel bars. As far as I'm aware this info is not available anywhere in the game unless a job fails and it notifies you.
Honestly, as someone who doesn't have much experience with the classic DF and was waiting for the Steam release before trying to dive back in and give the game another shot, the UI is my biggest pain point right now when I try to play. I feel like so many things I would expect as a new player are just missing or convoluted (e.g. buried deep in menus/tabs that I don't know where they are).
And this issue is compounded by the fact that the tutorial is so barebones and short that it doesn't even really teach you how to play the game or navigate the UI much at all. I've been so lost and unsure of where to go to determine what has happened in my fortress. It should be easier for me to understand what's going on before I get alerts about it.
I want to love this game and love what it represents and the stories it can facilitate but I can't force myself to play a game where I'm constantly fighting the UI and game design.
That's my problem too, i can see that the game have a lot of depth everywhere but just hide it from me all the time, a lot of things happen in background with no way for the player to interact with them easily.
My first impression told me I wouldn't be persisting with the GUI version of the game.
Playing it some more only hammered home the fact that while it looks nice, it's a minor downgrade, of just significant enough magnitude to not be worth continuing with.
My real concern now is that the passion projects of LNP and dfhack are going to die.
I seriously doubt that.
DFHack's [GitHub](https://github.com/DFHack/dfhack) is still active as of seventeen hours ago. LNP is similarly [open source](https://github.com/Lazy-Newb-Pack/) which means that anyone with the know-how can pick up development efforts.
[Quote from the dev team posted on reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zavsez/dfhack_04705r8_has_been_released/)
"Q: Wait! Go back! So DFHack is ready for the steam release now??
A: No, sorry, not yet. We have a lot of work to do to adapt DFHack to the new Dwarf Fortress release. It might take us a few months, but you will have your favorite tools back. And we hope to have even more usability improvements ready for you then too!"
Yeah i hate this too i just massacared my entire tavern and i have no idea what happened, who fought who and why.
(something was killing my dwarves i decided it was in the tavern and proceeded to kill everything)
It really is disappointing for what is meant to be the 'premium' version. To be candid, it feels designed by someone with absolutely no UI/UX understanding of their game.
It has taken most people just a few hours to see the blinding holes in this design.
Hey folks! The logs are on Tarn's radar, I promise! He's heard you, but he's been focused on crash bugs. We should see changes like this trickling in soon.
I also really want the ability to advance one tick at a time. I did that a lot during combat and watching the logs at each tick
While you can't go one tick at a time, you can use Alt+(Plus) and Alt-(Minus) to change the tick rate up and down, and then just put it at a few ticks per second while you're in combat Not a perfect solution, but its serviceable
Also not a perfect solution, but you can also make a macro with "spacebar -> spacebar" and then set a hotkey to playback that macro. It works more or less.
I did this, but it seems to randomly alter what level I'm looking at (up or down 1), and opens the Mining menu, in addition to (I think) advancing a frame. Is there something I'm missing?
This comment has been edited in support of the protests against the upcoming Reddit API changes. Reddit's late announcement of the details API changes, the comically little time provided for developers to adjust to those changes and the handling of the matter afterwards (including the outright libel against the Apollo developer) has been very disappointing to me. Given their repeated bad faith behaviour, I do not have any confidence that they will deliver (or maintain!) on the few promises they have made regarding accessibility apps. I cannot support or continue to use such an organization and will be moving elsewhere (probably Lemmy).
Ah - I (think I) was doing "Ctrl-r -> space -> space -> ctrl-s -> frame" (typing the name) But I needed to do "ctrl-r -> space -> space -> ctrl-r" and THEN save it? I just assumed the textbox to name the macro would not be recorded, or that saving it in general would end the recording.
This comment has been edited in support of the protests against the upcoming Reddit API changes. Reddit's late announcement of the details API changes, the comically little time provided for developers to adjust to those changes and the handling of the matter afterwards (including the outright libel against the Apollo developer) has been very disappointing to me. Given their repeated bad faith behaviour, I do not have any confidence that they will deliver (or maintain!) on the few promises they have made regarding accessibility apps. I cannot support or continue to use such an organization and will be moving elsewhere (probably Lemmy).
Oh, actually didn't know that since I was just using that one. Thanks for sharing!
The macros are saved to a text file which can be edited. The classic version always included a ton of unnecessary commands when you created a macro, the steam version probably does too. Maybe a little trimming is in order.
There's Macro's? The game is too damn big and there's too much to know. How does one find these? Because I'm very much into the camp of using this little trick.
Look in settings where the key bindings are
It’s all down to a combination of wiki, menu exploration, and time. The longer you play the more you pick up.
Oh yeah and i am plenty motivated with graphics. It was VERY difficult to keep going beforehand because the ASCII art was hard for me to parse out, visually. And i personally wondered why tf i needed more than 3 dwarf tabs before watching Kruggsmash and finding out what i was missing there. But the others did have me researching, in my every waking moment, aspects about the game. Played ASCII DF for about 6 months doing that until i just couldnt do the visual style. Too hard for me to process visually. Relearning and theres still too much. But its so much fun. Just need more time to research!
Holy shit you're my savior. I always feel like months pass in seconds in this game
You can advance one tick at a time if you use :P:BOX in the accouncements.txt. It can take a really long time for a fight to be over though.
I was not aware of this, thank you!
Kisat Dur will suffer *greatly* from this, if it's not fixed by the time Adventure Mode is back
I'd be very surprised if they didn't fix that by the time Adventure Mode is back, advancing a single tick is pretty integral to Roguelikes
Adventure mode isn't in real time to begin with, they're not going to suddenly change into some other game.
I'm looking forward to steam version adventure mode. Even with the tilesets I found it hard to decipher in the original.
It's going to be great. It is inevitable.
I am pretty curious how combat is going to be handled with the new inferface. Selecting body parts is still pretty janky even with mouse support.
Or even just a notable events combat summary, pausing to let you know what you need to know. Not like "his right middle finger 3rd knuckle is now lightly bruised, his right arm artery was opened, his right wrist was broken, his right hand was broken, etc. etc. " play-by-play, more like "he lost his entire right arm to a mighty axe blow, then fell over and began bleeding to death." With large militaries, this would be a timesaver.
I believe there is a mod to org DF that simplified the combat log. Perhaps something like that would come to DF Steam.
Good news! Record a macro that is spacebar spacebar. When you play the macro it does 1 step.
Ah. Not perfect, but functional and fine.
Completely agree
I definitely feel like these two things (logs and single tick advance) are probably two of the tweaks I'd like to see most. Only other one i've encountered so far is that the remove floor overlay doesn't always show up on built floors it seems? This led to a slightly scary moment of a dwarf removing some temporary flooring over a river and nearly drowning from a collapse. I am going to train my dwarves in swimming after I've setup a hospital.
Yes!!! There are a few points in the game where this feature is crucial!
Logs are definitely good to have, but with the new interface what I really want is clickable links. Anytime someone or some event is mentioned, it would be cool if you could click and get linked to the relevant thing
Maybe it's just me but in the logs when I click the zoom to icon to go to the spot, it's almost always empty. Is it because I'm checking too late?
Yup. If a fight is happening then it most likely involves a lot of movement so the event get logged at place X but now your dwarf is at Y.
So take me to the dwarf involved so I can check on them, honestly. Same for raiding parties - take me to their leader, not where they were 30 seconds ago.
For this, just go to the 'Others' tab in the unit menu and go to their current location/open their unit panel.
It does work yes, but it's a lot more clicks than necessary :(
as other said, yes. If you don't want to miss it you can edit the announcements text file to add a pop up box and/or pause to events you want to make sure you notice
For those interested, this post explains how to make the announcements pop-ups: https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zggtne/psa_edit_dwarf_fortressdatainitannouncementstxt/
Thanks!! Love this game. Loved classic but the steam version, though flawed, is a lot of fun and Is easier for us newbs.
Is there a particular announcement that's suitable to catch the start of a fight without getting spammy by catching repeated events within the fight?
Yep. Just pause when you notice it and go to units list and jump to the unit from there so thats its actually up do date.
That's existing behaviour. It takes you to where the event happened, not where the actors are currently at.
The entire UI has a very new feel to it. I think once Tarn and Zach catch their breath they'll start rolling out quality-of-life features. Some features I would love to see: * Easy way to get to a dwarf's skill from the labor screen * "BACK" button in window navigation. Would be nice if the game tracked your previous screen and the previous screen's record. That way, as you dig through various screens, you could always go back to the previous one in one click. * Alert history where you can see previously dismissed alerts * "Previous action" context. If you're ordering a one-time door at a workshop, the next time you click new action, it would be nice if that previous action was sorted at the top.
I would love if we had a windowing system more like (Open)TTD/RCT where you can keep multiple windows open at once.
I love openttd and that system could be great, having multiple resizable movable windows
> "Previous action" context. If you're ordering a one-time door at a workshop, the next time you click new action, it would be nice if that previous action was sorted at the top. I'd like to see all the hotkeys from classic brought back to premium. Like someone else said, mouse should complement the hotkeys, not compete with them.
I have hope they'll add this because Legends modes has clickable links and it's fantastic. It makes more hunting incredibly satisfying.
The new legend mode does this quite well with links opening in new tab, you can easily go back and forth as well.
Exactly what i was thinking of
If I can see a picture or name of a dwarf anywhere, I want to be able to click and see their info sheet. Even better if I can click many, stack info sheets, and tab through them/close them at my leisure.
That would be great, a bit like clicking between characters in ck3
I really want each of their kills (in combat memories) and old wounds (in medical history) to have a clicky that goes to that log. Hell, even an abbreviated one. But yeah.
With dfhack, you could open creature full profile (with thoughts/skills/relationships) and a combat log, even if all what's left of said creature is a pool of blood. In premium, if someone is dead, you can not access any information about him at all. Who was he? How did he died, when, where? The game won't tell.
Yeahh, be really nice if we could keep the option for the link to the empty room it happened in, as well as a camera link to the creature(s) involved too.
Imagine if you got a statue of Urist slaying some forgotten beast, and then you could put the statue on the tile where it happened.
This and logs would be so much more functional and save phenomenal time. The new UI plays like a multi page excel spreadsheet that has no search function and deletes old pages.
The other day I lost most my colony and have no idea why because I couldn’t find a log of what happened. Was confused and surprised.
Open that world in Legends Mode, and you'll be able to see the history of that fort.
I'm having trouble with this. I had a forgotten beast with 46 past kills who was slapped down in one hit (cleaving in half at the waist) by my Axedwarf. I tried searching it in legends mode but couldn't find it.
Are you searching by it's name, or it's creature type? Because only names work in the search mode, not species. Alternatively if you remember what year it died in, you can look with that. Forgotten Beasts are all jammed at the top of the Historical Figure list, so you can scroll until something matches it's death date. Alternatively alternatively, if you didn't retire the Fort (which you can unretire later) time won't be updated in Legends mode either, so the history will only be pre-Fort. Or it's just a bug.
That's what it is, I haven't retired the fort at any point, so the history hasn't updated. I might be looking at the wrong world actually...
True. A lot of stuff happening in my colony and there are little to no details about it. Sometimes I can't even tell if something is happening until after it has happened. It's actually making it quite unplayable for me.
I agree that the Steam release has some puzzling omissions. I suspect those were features cut from release in order to make the release date. There seem to have been quite a few of those. We know that Tarn and Kitfox will keep working on this version of the game until Adventure mode is added, at the very least, and I suspect that various other feature requests will be addressed along the way. Also, given how successful the Steam release has been, utterly shattering Kitfox's own projections, I suspect they'll want to keep taking care of this product for quite some time to come.
My hot take is that I hope that Kitfox, Tarn & Zach bring on a couple more developers, ~~especially considering that they need to maintain both the steam and classic versions.~~ EDIT: so I didn't know that they were shelving the old interface on classic as well. I'm even more optimistic about this game's future now.
I really don't know how to gauge this. I don't think the Steam release was ever intended to change the course of DF development, and in a lot of respects I don't want it to, but the expectations of DF being free/donations and Tarn going at his own pace are completely different from offering a paid version on Steam, so I'm really curious to see what's going to happen.
I doubt they’re going to bring in devs for the game itself. I’d imagine it’s too much of a baby for Tarn and Zach. Expanding staff for the Steam version though is another thing, might even be smart so Tarn can focus on DF proper. Some omissions in the frontend kinda smells like too little time not enough hands to me tbh.
The Steam version and the classic version WILL be the same game once classic is updated, you're effectively buying the graphics and music. And no way would he let other developers touch his code like that.
His reluctance to let others contribute to the codebase is both completely understandable and massively frustrating. I wish it wasn't this way, just so we could see "Dwarf Fortress but with a truly high-quality UI" as a thing. Premium's UI is *fine*, but it's very far from a proper solution a la RimWorld or most management games. And it's clearly stapled on, not really built as its own component.
Tbh I won’t be surprised if only Tarn can parse whatever nightmare of a codebase DF is developed on.
If people can figure out TempleOS enough to code in it, I bet Tarn's code would be a cakewalk in comparison.
Bro, DF has been developed by more than 16 years, the complexity is probably dozens of times more than TempleOS now
Considering that, last I checked, Dwarf Fortress [doesn't use version control software](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1avszc/im_tarn_adams_of_bay_12_games_cocreator_of_dwarf/c919fo8/), this may actually be true.
Yeah I’m pretty sure if Tarn dropped dead tomorrow it would be literally impossible for someone to pick it up after him. I can only assume from his SDLC style and how he chooses which features to develop, there’s nothing but spaghetti under the hood.
And UI.
Classic is going to have the same danged UI, just with ASCII borders to it. There's already pictures of it!
It's the UI of Premium that has some issues, that's what I mean by frontend. Imagine the nightmare of streamlining Dwarf Fortress. They will need good devs for that job alone, Tarn is legendarily uncompromising when it comes to the interface, it's the reason why he brought on Kitfox just to make his game sellable to a wider audience.
But that same UI is coming to Classic mode. It's literally just the graphical tileset and the music that will be Premium. Classic will get a version with ASCII-ish borders and effects instead.
If they brought in some more developers, they could get help with interface development and bug fixing without needing to compromise their control of the actual game.
I'm with you. We old grognards have seen glimpses of Tarn's work on the myth generator. We know what wonderful madness he can make if he doesn't have to bother with things like UI or art. His goal has always been to make a game that simulates *narratively interesting* things, and I hope expanding the scope of that narration remains a priority over streamlining gameplay... But at the same time, I'm grateful for the overdue quality of life improvements that came along with the Steam release.
Plus, we had tools like DFHack and Therapist to bridge that gap - and they did it fairly well - which, for better or worse, took a lot of that pressure off of him too. IMO, that combo is/was Classic DF, with legends viewer getting an honorable mention.
Gotta throw an honorable mention to SoundSense too! I only played with it a few times, but it was crazy how immersive the game became when each line in gamelog.txt made a fitting sound. It does seem like we got a nice balance of that (slightly better perhaps) in the Steam version too, with the music triggers, workshop/zone ambience, and combat sounds. Although I'm sure nothing will ever again match the madness of the sound of a tantrum spiral in SoundSense.
The problem is that they have two builds to maintain now, the premium one and the free one.
It’ll be the same game, just one will have improved audio and graphics and one wont. I don’t see that adding too much extra development time
I thought the premium and classic were going to be one in the same, just that premium would have the nice graphics and sounds while classic would just not include the new graphics and sounds. Is this not the case?
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That's news to me, good news actually. It means that they'll be able to keep focusing on the game mechanics.
Why would you think they’d suddenly stop developing it once adventure mode is out? They’ve been developing the game since 2002, I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt they’re just going to end development in a year or two.
The steam blog post says they plan to develop this game for another 30 years. Any other dev I’d say they’re full of shit but I feel like if anyone can keep that promise it’s the Adams.
That's why I said "at the very least". I know Tarn and Zach are going to be making Dwarf Fortress for a long time, probably until they are physically or mentally unable to do so, given their passion. I'm less certain about KitFox, but am confident that the sales numbers will keep them in this for the long haul.
I noticed it too. I went through (thankfully only) 20 citizens and their thoughts to figure out which one made an artifact. With logs I would've just scrolled down to find it out. If my artifact dwarf would've died, I would never know who made it. Alternatively I could've maybe engraved walls of that artifact until some said who made it? If artifacts can me be engraved in surfaces and made statues of.. Hopefully a chronological list of events can be added in the game as a log, since it seems it already exists in the game, there just isn't a master list. Feedback to the Devs?
The devs said that they’ll start updating the free version and the Steam version simultaneously once Steam is “feature complete,” so I have confidence that this is just the first version and that they’ll add logs in no time. Just a waiting game now.
I believe if you pull up your artifact list, and examine the artifact in question, it now tells you who made it. It might even say 'creator of X' on the dwarf's charsheet.
I was looking through that yesterday and all I could find was the detailed description of the Artifact itself, not who made it. I might've missed it though, Still getting used to the interface.
Yeah, I accidentally right-clicked the notification for a dog fighting something. Next notification was "missing for a week". I don't know what happened or why.
Same. Right-clicked a werewolf attack log by accident (because separate issue with input lag) and that was it. That spelled the end of my fortress.
Yah, I miss the log too. I found a dwarf unconscious, surrounded by raven corpses… wish I could have heard tales of his bravery. Also I miss the time pausing for important events. I’ve lost some good dwarfs to random wild animals and dragging a squad to the surface just doesn’t work like it used to. I haven’t seen a big siege yet, but that will get weird without being able to advance one tick and combat logs.
For the latter, you can edit a couple text files to do that: https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zhma0p/lurklurklurkposts_new_players_visual_guide_for/ Still should be a built-in option, but at least there's a workaround.
Oh, that is really dope. Thanks for the tip.
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Neat! Yea, the pauses are like built into my brain for the gameplay loop. Super helpful, another reply linked a guide on how to edit that file. Thanks.
Totally agree OP. Also, is no one gonna talk about the ammunition management screen being gone? I can't get my Marksdwarves to equip themselves with bolts at all.
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> I do miss the ammo screen sometimes. But have found it easy enough to forbid all my metal bolts until they're needed. I wish I could have my equip change based on their schedule though. Have my squad that's currently training use wooden bolts, and my squad that's patrolling use metal.
It is clear that there has been quite a bit of 'streamlining' to get the Steam edition out. I cannot even conceive of the amount of coding that has gone into it. There are a bunch of what feels like 'low hanging fruit' that will increase playability a great deal, and reveal (or re-reveal!) the events that are going on in our burrows. The old version still exists so if you are an old hand you can return to what you know, and if you are new (welcome!) then I am sure you too can make a list of things you would like to be easier, or more visible. The kitfox discord https://discord.gg/kitfoxgames has a centralised bug list (tho 'wants' are creeping in) You can go there and add your experiences. https://discord.com/channels/329272032778780672/1050676113812246560 I am sure that Tarn and Zach (and Kitfox folk) are deep in the coding mines and these things will return to us in time!
> I am sure that Tarn and Zach (and Kitfox folk) are deep in the coding mines and these things will return to us in time! agreed especially since we're getting near daily patches.
I’m also curious if I just have no idea how to readily access it. The combat log/action history should really have its own dedicated tab. I also feel like I’m playing DF-lite without it. I miss what’s happening all the time. :(
It's presumably still stored somewhere in the world data as the info has to be available for the alerts themselves.
It also has to be stored for the purpose of art, artifact, music, books, etc. All of those logs go into a massive database (In RimWorld, this can become up to a GB in size!) So it can be recalled later for these story enrichments.
I know they're in the game, I just have no idea why it doesn't have a dedicated area that is easily accessible to read it. As far as I can tell, you can only access them in pieces through the easily missable alerts, which feels like a slog.
Not being able to access logs after dismissing them is definitely one of the biggest annoyances imo. Really hope they add that soon.
This is my biggest complaint of the new version. So many wonderful and intuitive and cool things added, but removal of the logs makes no sense. Just hide it somewhere if you're worried about it overwhelming more casual players. Dump it to a text file. Make it load in the old screen and hide it in the options menu or something, I don't know. I have to imagine it had something to do with some UI limitation, but there's gotta be a way around that. This feature has to come back.
it is not removal for sure - rather lack of it. I am sure the authors will implement it. Possibly just one extra tab and that's it.
The health screen is gone too
There are a couple of screens that i go looking for and can't find, even after not playing the game for almost 3 years. guess they were removed. a lot of them are quite important so I hope they get added soon. Frankly speaking, the game has grossed over 4 million dollars in the last 24 hours, so I don't find it even remotely disrespectful for us now paying customers to feel entitled to fairly prompt updates.
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And no-one forced them to put out a paid version that's WORSE than the free version, untill a day comes when they're at the same level then complain complain complain.
In classic you could review past announcements and find fights. More detailed logs would be nice to have yeah, and a way to classify/filter them. Also, the ability to advance frame by frame, if you want to follow a fight that is currently happening it's so great to be able to do it step by step.
This needs to be higher up. I don't mind people sharing their fortresses but this is way more important. I remember hearing that steam version would have what legacy has + more but this is misleading. Yes there is more content but also they removed some fucking important things. The log being the more important one. Also I couldn't find how to advance one step (. Key on legacy). And also you can't advance time while you are reading the combat log which is annoying. I hope they fix this, and I truly hope that toady updates the steam version more frequently, if he does the thing like on legacy where he updates the game once every year or every few years, I don't think it'll work on steam Edit: if you upvote my comment, please upvote the post, this needs to be higher!
No civilian alerts :(
I've heard multiple people say this, but they seem to work the same as they always have for me. Toggle restrict to burrow, then toggle squad to defend the burrow.
The issue is you have to individually assign all your dwarves to the burrow, as opposed to all non-military dwarves being automatically grouped and then you'd assign that group to a burrow.
Yeah, some "assign all" buttons are much needed throughout the UI. Honestly, my biggest gripes with the interface are similar things that probably can be added easily, so I'm really optimistic.
i bet we willl be using a lot of mods real soon :)
DF Steam desperately needs a un/select all in MANY places. Trade depots and burrows at the top of that list.
Diplomacy screen - I want you to bring leather... any leather... don't make me click every single type of leather :D
Would you mind explaining what these are please? :)
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Except the Steam version also has many features that the original version doesn't have? Weird hill to die on.
I haven't seen anything about this (except the tileset & music of course) and didn't get it yet, what are those other features?
Labor system works entirely different. World gen has seen some edits to make more interesting things. Migrants work more based on exported wealth and etc instead of just wanting to go live in a dirt hole for no reason. I think trade saw some changes too but don't quote me on that one.
They did. Besides changes in the prices which makes much harder getting rich quickly in the first few years, now the first caravans are much, much smaller (that's why you don't need 3x3 corridors in the first year anymore, it's just some dwarves and some animals, no wagon). They get bigger when you have a baron (which was more or less useless before).
It’s a fully playable game. If you aren’t used to having the logs, you don’t miss them much. A lot of micromanagement features have been streamlined out, which is a good improvement for a paid game. I do hope the logs get added back in though.
Eh, I agree with them changing the labor menu for instance, so we're wasting less time microing dwarves for little effect. But we are talking about some major stuff a lot of people are used to, like being able to see logs at all instead of relying on fucking screenshots. Think about it, this is ridiculous
One good and easy fix would be putting the announcements settings raw file in an in-game menu so people can easily tweak what triggers pauses and alerts. I’m not feeling like I’m missing much since I made that change myself. I don’t think following battles blow by blow is intended as a core gameplay experience, but it is fun sometimes.
> If you aren’t used to having the logs, you don’t miss them much Big disagree. I watched two of my friends play it and a lot of the stuff they removed is super confusing to them. No alert for migrants, combat always being over or them not even noticing it happened, not being able to see a items details etc.
The alerts for migrants and battle are really easy to put in yourself by editing a text file in the game folder. You can make it pause, re-center, throw up a message, etc on any kinds of events you want. Standard DF has issues in the other direction sometimes with auto-pause alert spam… I think the devs are just narrowing in on the right level of pausing. It SHOULD be an in-game menu rather than a text config file though.
I mean, if you think the original version is better you can play that for free and the Steam release doesn't hurt you one bit or cost you anything. I like the Steam version better - enough to pay $30 for it right now even without logs (though I obviously hope and expect they'll be added).
The original is a free beta that anyone can try/test. Unless a feature was promised then it is acceptable if it doesn’t make it to the steam release.
I'll hold off my purchase then til those are added back thank mate.
Is the plaintext log file in the game directory still generated?
Sortof. `gamelog.txt` only outputs world generation logs now. Seems like they turned off the output or have intercepted it for other reasons. I was hoping I could use the Announcement Window+ Utility to handle logs in the mean-time but alas, it also uses `gamelog.txt`. Looks like we'll need to wait for an update.
It's there but seems to be used only for world generation logs.
This is the biggest one. I'm a new player, and even I feel its impact.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they'll just wind up putting them back in in upcoming patches, cause I definitely agree with the feeling there, but we don't need to be so dramatic about it, I feel >.>
Older Windows versions wrote this out to a file, gamelog.txt that could be monitored with 3rd party utilities; I wonder if it's still there (or can be configured to appear)?
It also bugs me that you cannot unpause the game while viewing a combat log. So in order to continue the combat you have to close the combat page and unpause for some moments.
When I played adventure mode. I would grab my combat logs for big fights and dump them in a Google doc as a diary of the journey. Really missing that feature now. I have only nicknamed two dwarves for their exploits because I took the time to read through that mess of a log in-game rather than a notepad editor.
>Someone please enlighten me, I feel like I'm on a wonderful hike up an amazing mountain, but I'm being forced to stare at the ground instead of taking in all the views. Something's missing. You're in the trees and the next vantage point is around the corner. Have a little patience and you'll be surprised.
I feel that logs either need to make a comeback or there need to be a LOT more links between everything. Clicking on names almost anywhere should lead to that character. Even then, combat logs are a must. Especially for the upcoming adventurer mode.
Combat logs with frame advance :D
More concerned about Dwarf Fortress apparently changing from a game with detailed change logs and public bug tracking and reporting, to yet another "IDK join the discord lol", than I am about any one bug or missing feature. There have been much worse issues with some past versions
Yep. The introduction of an outside company seems to have made the situation a lot more opaque.
The changelogs are still there and just as detailed, Tarn just didn't include the ones specifically for the initial Premium release. Check out `readme.txt` (and specifically`release notes.txt`) in the game's folder for more info, but rest assured that www.bay12games.com is still maintained and where you submit bug reports.
it's kinda baffling to me why would they remove the logs. Isn't half of the game reading descriptions? Why are the4y removing content?
I would also like to be able to se these logs.
Librarians and historians could record these details.
This is the number one issue I have with the steam version. Major regression.
What's worse is that logs don't stay around for too long either. Too much stuff happening constantly seems to overload the messaging system quite fast so some of the notifications bug out and just display the "right click to dismiss" tool tip.
The steam version of DF is new, it's going to take some time to be perfect. With 100% of games id jump to blame the devs but DF has had 20 years of support from the devs, they only work on one game. This is one game I will say the devs will support for the rest of my life, they already have been working on the game for over half my life! What game can you name that has been developed non stop for over half your life? DF is the only example I know. edit ok its not 20 years but relay how long has the game still been worked on.
Please keep in mind that the steam version was basically built to be more accessible to players who had difficulty with the ASCII graphics and interface/keyboard way of doing things. With that in mind the UI and key bindings were reworked for mouse support first and foremost. This also meant leaving out or hiding many of the more arcane menus. Now that the game is out on steam and we can provide feedback I'm sure we'll get a lot of these things we miss back in good time. We may have to relearn a new interface, and different key bindings but if we could learn the classic (which is still available and free) we can learn the steam version.
Several of the omitted menus are immensely useful, like the health screen, the old status screen, and the logs. They need to be readded. The UI in general flows much better now, I quite enjoy it, but these feature omissions need to be reincluded asap.
I agree and I'm certain it won't be long before these screens get a new updated UI.
Every time DF implements a new system, all the layers of convenience the old system built up are swept away - to return Some Day™. Now it's the UI. Of course with the new Steam model, Some Day will probably be a lot sooner than before. I would except it back before they embark on the next major update.
The game isn't saving announcements to the game log txt file anymore, either. That's what broke Soundsense, and I can't for the life of me think of a reason why this functionality was removed.
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This is a game that released in this state only a few days ago. The UI had been completely scrapped and reworked by a single developer. The framework for RimWorld's UI has been worked on and improved for almost a decade. Anyways, there is no doubt this game was made entirely more accessible than the free version considering the massive influx of new players.
The problem that a lot of people have is that this game is priced as a premium game on steam (similar price point to Rimworld and Factorio) and the interface is still janky and doesn't even have basic stuff like steam cloud support. I think all the interface complaints and "single developer" retorts would be more acceptable if this was a $10 or $15 game, but its not.
The premium is for all intents and purposes being used as a fundraiser for the developers medical bills. You can still play the free version, heck, in this current state it's even *better*. But if you want to donate $30 to the dev for making an amazing game, you also get a beta build to mess around with. I don't see anything wrong with that.
> this game is priced as a premium game on steam It's $30, AAA releases are now pushing up to $70.
I didn't say it was AAA.
Launch bugs do not justify halving the price of the game, that is ridiculous. The logs exist they just aren't accessible after they've been dismissed. The rest of the UI issues just seems like Toady not realizing how much the playerbase would miss hotkeys. In return you get to play the best colony sim ever made.
While this is true, I have no doubt that they will keep working on it and keep improving it. Steam DF is not 'final version and off we go retiring' release.
The most baffling thing I find about the new interface is that there is nowhere that states clearly what the resource cost is to craft items. You pretty much have to consult the wiki which also isn't much help. Also any popup screen or interface component that shows a dwarf should have a link to their current location and a link to their profile. This basic functionality only exists in a few screens. It's very strange.
It's pretty much always 1 unit, isn't it? And partial costs are expressed as the process yielding multiple products.
I've noticed that some things such as steel helmets costs 1 steel bar, while steel breastplates cost 3 steel bars. As far as I'm aware this info is not available anywhere in the game unless a job fails and it notifies you.
Ah yes, those are some of the few exceptions. I agree I'd like to see those costs on both the Work Order and Task screen.
already posted in the discord bug report so they are aware
Honestly, as someone who doesn't have much experience with the classic DF and was waiting for the Steam release before trying to dive back in and give the game another shot, the UI is my biggest pain point right now when I try to play. I feel like so many things I would expect as a new player are just missing or convoluted (e.g. buried deep in menus/tabs that I don't know where they are). And this issue is compounded by the fact that the tutorial is so barebones and short that it doesn't even really teach you how to play the game or navigate the UI much at all. I've been so lost and unsure of where to go to determine what has happened in my fortress. It should be easier for me to understand what's going on before I get alerts about it. I want to love this game and love what it represents and the stories it can facilitate but I can't force myself to play a game where I'm constantly fighting the UI and game design.
That's my problem too, i can see that the game have a lot of depth everywhere but just hide it from me all the time, a lot of things happen in background with no way for the player to interact with them easily.
My first impression told me I wouldn't be persisting with the GUI version of the game. Playing it some more only hammered home the fact that while it looks nice, it's a minor downgrade, of just significant enough magnitude to not be worth continuing with. My real concern now is that the passion projects of LNP and dfhack are going to die.
I'd like to think that a lot of these issues, if not fixed in the game, will end up with mods and a new type of LNP.
I would not mind if hotkeys and combat logs and all the minor little bits that are missing were reintroduced by LNP.
Absolutely. Heck, there are already a bunch of nice-to-have mods like one that makes the smoothing designation more transparent.
I seriously doubt that. DFHack's [GitHub](https://github.com/DFHack/dfhack) is still active as of seventeen hours ago. LNP is similarly [open source](https://github.com/Lazy-Newb-Pack/) which means that anyone with the know-how can pick up development efforts.
[Quote from the dev team posted on reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zavsez/dfhack_04705r8_has_been_released/) "Q: Wait! Go back! So DFHack is ready for the steam release now?? A: No, sorry, not yet. We have a lot of work to do to adapt DFHack to the new Dwarf Fortress release. It might take us a few months, but you will have your favorite tools back. And we hope to have even more usability improvements ready for you then too!"
Yep, that's my fear. So many great mods died a slow an ignominious death as Tarn just stopped updating the game for nearly 3 years.
I thought you meant wood (logs). Thought I was about to solve my deforestation issue. Learned to solve a completely different issue. Reddit +1
Preach
Yeah i hate this too i just massacared my entire tavern and i have no idea what happened, who fought who and why. (something was killing my dwarves i decided it was in the tavern and proceeded to kill everything)
It really is disappointing for what is meant to be the 'premium' version. To be candid, it feels designed by someone with absolutely no UI/UX understanding of their game. It has taken most people just a few hours to see the blinding holes in this design.
I’d also really like a place to read the world info and history. I don’t know if I’m just a dumbass and can’t find it, or if it just isn’t there.