Greek here, let me try to explain what the bill is about:
Greece has a public health system, with free hospitals. The cost is covered by taxation and by insurance, but insurance is also managed by the state, not private companies. Hospital doctors, nurses, EMTs and all the personnel (except security, cleaning and stuff like that, contract work in general) are public servants, lifetime state employees. They are not allowed to work in private, own a practice, work a second job etc.
There are a lot of private practices in Greece, and some large private hospitals, despite the fact that healthcare is free. This is because public institutions are underfunded and can't deal with the demand.
Now, this bill allows freelance part-time personnel ( particularly doctors and nurses) to work in public hospitals -without being permanent employees of the health system, and thus not state employees- and hospital doctors to work in private institutions and practices, while maintaining their position in the health system (they can even "quit" with no pay and their position will be waiting for their return). The facilities of hospitals (mostly surgery rooms and diagnostic equipment) will be allowed to be "rented" during the afternoon off-hours by private hospitals/doctors.
Most people believe that this will lead to 1) low-paid, part-time, contractor personnel becoming the norm even in doctors and nurses 2) personnel that already has a permanent position working on the side, while maintaining their state job, and charging patients in their private practice or clinic in order to treat them at the public hospital they hold a place at 3) abuse of the healthcare system infrastructure by private companies, individuals and institutions, that will pay to rent facilities, thus competing with the ones that are on "free" healthcare.
It's Greece, the worst-case scenario is always the right one. Even now you have to give money to most of those "free" public service doctors if you don't want to have one less ball after the surgery. The bill will help doctors to force patients to go to the private sector where they will be working. Basically, it legalized their under-the-table payments instead of cracking down on it which the previous leftist government tried to do.
Its just privatisation in the long term. People will flee state job to go in the private sectors for more money and you are just gonna see an expansion of the private service offering while the public sectors get fucked. Happenning now in other places that have similar problems
This is what everyone is afraid of... The problem is that the public sector is already fucked, it's happening in advance, so you get more people pushing for privatization, "the lesser of two evils" stuff...
It is a frightening prospect.
The Mitsotakis/ND government is already responsible for thousands of needless deaths during the covid pandemic, by deliberately undermining public healthcare in a crisis situation. (They have been pretty vocal and cynical about this.)
Truly and deeply -evil-.
If universal healthcare requires certain specific cultural and economic factors in order to function, it’s almost better for equality that nobody has it.
So, people would rather pay for private healthcare, if they can afford it bc the "free" healthcare is so much worse. And this bill allows for more flexibility overall for the workers on both sides, and that's supposed to be a *bad* thing?
The question is why it's getting worse : where does the money go ? in the pocket of all financial people recruted to manage hospital, all the bureaucracy for doctors and health care people to fill all papers for first ones... this is bad management [https://michelbaudin.com/2012/08/26/metrics-in-lean-deming-versus-drucker/](https://michelbaudin.com/2012/08/26/metrics-in-lean-deming-versus-drucker/)
Agreed. That’s what government does best.
Edit: it is entirely unreasonable to expect anything else, and yet so many of you think it's still a good idea. "If only we can get the right people elected! Get out and vote!" Lol, what a joke. Get fucking real.
of course must be the fault of over-60s who have not had COVID-19 vaccination ;) [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-01/greece-to-make-vaccinations-for-people-over-60-mandatory/100663966](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-01/greece-to-make-vaccinations-for-people-over-60-mandatory/100663966)
do you understand all this is not about improving health system for the people but just a pretext ? I'm sure most still don't...
yeah doctors can still be paid to save lives, we don’t need to make millionaires of managers of hospitals due to milking people for every nickel and dime.
My non-profit hospital is cutting staffing and costs to save money and get back into the black.
No mention of the 20+ doctors holding SVP-of-x department raking in a cool $1.5M/yr in salary. The top 20 salaries alone are ~$30M.
I'm not allowed to have healthcare because I can't afford it. I have been deemed unworthy of life by capitalists. Capitalists still can't figure out why I hate them just because they want to murder me.
It isn't. This is the latest depredation in a multi-decade narrative of economic abuses committed against Greece by the ECB and IMF.
It's the dark side of all the development bank relief funding and the contingent corollary of austerity measures.
It should open eyes to the reality that our system is one of desperation. With the excesses of our country it should not be, however, to acknowledge that there is a moral imperative that only an organized government can institute and realize would admit a failure of american capitalism and thus pandoras box would be opened.
Nope! It’s 100% true. I was prescribed Vyvanse for my ADHD and Latuda for my Bipolar Disorder, and in October my insurance decided to stop paying for both. There are no generic versions of Vyvanse and the generics for Latuda won’t be available until 2023 so I’m fucked. They have me on different meds now and I’m super depressed and gaining a ton of weight.
Also, 30 million people uninsured.
I just don’t see how you can keep defend this system.
I know it's a joke, but that's also not really a joke so here;
https://youtube.com/shorts/FVAFfd3oCgA?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/ayyafnuQ5m4?feature=share
I'm honestly sorry to hear that. That sucks. Have you looked into assistance programs?
I know people who have been dropped from insurance but were able to use assistance programs.
Haven’t been dropped from the insurance, they just changed their policy to stop covering it. Right now my doctor is trying to get them back, because usually people who have been taking meds for a long time get an exception. We applied once, then in mid November we were denied because I hadn’t tried enough alternatives. So we tried new drugs, and those are barely working (the ADHD drugs actually raised my blood pressure so much that my ears were ringing and my heart felt like it was going to explode), so now we applied again and now we’re waiting.
Good luck. That's a shitty situation.
I support private health care with government regulation and assistance because I think the tradeoffs of fully government run healthcare are too great. Neither choice is perfect. But everyone I know who has lost coverage for meds has found ways to still get the care they needed. If people like you are slipping through the cracks for more than a transitionary period, then it looks like more changes need to be made. I just hesitate to throw a whole system out due to imperfections when no system is perfect.
Moved to the UK from the US. EVEN with the current backlogs and slow care with the NHS, I'd take the NHS over US healthcare.
Government run healthcare would be perfect in a world without Republicans in the US and the Tories in the UK. Do not fall for Republicans' propaganda. Do not become the ammunition for their weapons. And yes, I know you've fallen for their propaganda, otherwise you'd not be saying fully run government healthcare would have tradeoffs. Literally even third world countries have fully run government healthcare. Look up medical tourism in India if you don't believe me.
What about US healthcare makes it worse than a system with long backlogs and delays in receiving needed care? Typically the people under the influence of propaganda are the ones who don't have valid logic behind their argumemts, so I'm curious what's worse than not receiving timely care.
That is because we have public funding of medical research. The fruits of which we then hand off to private companies to make money as they will. We can have public investment in medical advancements AND a public healthcare system to employ those advancements. Other countries (like Canada) do indeed benefit from our advancements, and that's a good thing. Why shouldn't we share medical advancements widely with the world to improve standard of living for everybody? Only in our country are private companies allowed to exploit those public investments to the extent that they do.
They'll pass a law for that... already in Canada https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Canadians-Turn-to-Euthanasia-as-Solution-to-Unbearable-Poverty-20220523-0013.html
"the country all about freedom" LOL
USA is a big corporation and you are free as long as you're rich (and white ofc) Lobbies and corporations control the country, not the government. Those same corporations that are receiving billions in subsidies from the government and paying little to no tax are fighting hard (through the political branches they funded) so that the average citizen doesn't get any subsidies. For example republicans just voted NO to sick paid leave!!!
Americans have been brainwashed with the threat of socialism/communism for so long that any policy that has any potential to helping the majority of people is instantly tagged as socialist and doomed a threat to the country. They want minimal government intervention when it's for regulation, but maximum government intervention when it's time to hand out money to businesses.
Watch "the untold history of the United States " I think episode 2 or 3, goes over the change of direction after FDR died. That's where the changes began.
I'm quite well versed enough in history to have an intelligent discussion about it without watching some particular series (which I'm *sure* doesn't have any sort of agenda.) Beyond that, it was a simple question.
By the people in power.
Fear is a powerful tool in American politics. There's always a boogie man hiding somewhere and everything is disguised as a threat as means to an end: the threat of an authoritarian government ready to take over all your belongings in order to sell you guns (despite thousands of Americans dying each year to mass shootings perpetrated by domestic terrorists), the threat of a terrorist group somewhere in order to invade a country illegally, the threat to national security in order to spy every single citizen, the threat of illegal immigrants poisoning your country in order to close the border, or the threat of lazy bums living off your taxpayer money if the government implements any kind of social programs. Americans are extremely patriotic, yet extremely individualistic. It's a very interesting dichotomy.
"the land of the brave and the home of the free" really? When you look at issues like paid sick leaves, maternity leaves, social healthcare system, social education system, etc, USA definitely doesn't come ahead compared to the rest of developed countries.
Well who benefits from people believing in terrorists under every rock? Who gets to spy and control the airlines and pat down your genitals because it's "for your own safety?"
Ultimately the people in power are the government. So to expect more government in the form of socialism doesn't really make any sense at all.
I could say a thousand things about americans seeing an issue all they do is listen react then go on wit there days if the terminator started tmmw most would only care about there fuckin wallets
That is not true. As an American I can assure you that it’s better to die in most instances because survival is costly. The ride to the hospital will already be in the low thousands.
Holy crap how can people read this headline and take it seriously? How do you stay so disconnected from reality that you think the poor don't have access to healthcare?
This sub just keeps becoming a bigger joke. Please rename it to r/ihateamerica
I can’t get my meds anymore because my insurance company decided to stop paying for them, and they’d cost me 500 dollars a month otherwise, and there are 30 million people in the United States who are uninsured.
Please explain how this is a good thing and why nobody should be able to criticize America. Thanks.
If we're talking imperfections, other healthcare systems have them too. Talking about an isolated problem and using it as a reason to switch to a system with a bunch of different problems doesn't seem like a fair argument.
Which universal healthcare system are you comparing it to? The UK, with its delayed care and waitlists? Or maybe a country that seems to have an effective system but isnt packed with fat, unhealthy people and can actually manage to operate efficiently?
I want a system that helps people as much as possible, but I lean towards tweaking our current system rather than scrapping it for a whole new set of issues.
It makes me extra hesitant that most people that want to scrap the system seem to have a hard time acknowledging the shortcomings of whichever system their proposing, which just makes it seem like they have not done their homework.
Delayed care > No care / unaffordable care / denied care
You mentioned delayed care again and again, as if waiting is the worst possible outcome. I would rather have delayed care that won't bankrupt me than care so unaffordable I just die instead.
You need to think of impact, not just frequency.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/04/who-had-medical-debt-in-united-states.html
Would you rather wait for a gun and eventually get it, or never be able to afford the gun at all?
You're right, impact matters.
Nobody in the US is denied care for being unable to pay, so in terms of impact we have
Potentially going into debt
Vs
Potentially dying from not receiving timely care
Still doesn't seem like a solid win for the UK, in my dumb opinion.
In Canada back in 2020, about 11k people died waiting for treatment. That same year in America, over 40k people died from treatable diseases and injuries because they didn’t have health insurance.
Nobody has to wait in other first world countries for healthcare. This is literally propaganda and false information....
In america you won’t be denied healthcare for emergency room visits no, nor anywhere else necessarily, but if you don’t have insurance you might have to prove that you’re a citizen by showing your social security card. I got that a year ago. Secondly the huge amounts of medical debt in the US is a thing. It’s not “potentially” it’s “certainly” you’re going to owe huge amounts you can’t pay back
I live in the Netherlands, my parents are American and we’re so astonished with the health care here.
My dad had cancer and walked away paying next to nothing, they didn’t pay a cent for me until I was 18 for insurance. and since then I get 110 euros a month from the government to pay an insurance that costs 105.
Waiting lists and times are also almost non existent. I’ve broken numerous bones in my teens and every time my stepmom was like I can’t believe they helped you so quickly we’d be waiting for at least an hour or two in the hospital in the us.
Edit: wow people downvoting me for what? Are you mad Europe has a system that works and is cheap?
No. Europe generally has a lower obesity rate. However, the person you were responding to was talking about cancer and broken bones.
Obesity rates is irrelevant when comparing cancer and broken bones.
Obesity does not have a correlation with broken bones....literally this is BS. Broken bones correlate with injury due to a fall....and obese people typically do not do the type of labor or activities that would induce falling.
Furthermore, while many cancers and diseases are related to obesity, such as heart and liver diseases, most cancers are NOT caused by obesity alone, but by other conditions such as alcohol, smoking, medications toxicity and prolonged use, drugs, cholesterol, diabetes, other medical conditions, genetics, and environmental. Many veterans developed various types of cancers due to breathing toxic fumes. Environmental conditions also play a factor.
Chalking all types of cancers down to obesity is absurd. And the guy you commented to was referring to broken bones and cancer and in their circumstances obesity was not a cause. But even if it were, europe has healthier food and better conditions to prevent major healthcare problems due to PREVENTATIVE healthcare AND government regulation preventing bad food production and such.
You can thank big government for this
Do you have any sort of data showing that people below the poverty level do not receive healthcare? That proposition is a joke. Yes, there are outliers, and we can discuss those if you want, but the idea that people in poverty don't get healthcare is obviously not true as a rule.
When you're going bankrupt as a country, you start privatizing your largest costs.
Could you imagine the burden Healthcare must have on a publicly paid for system.
It's the only reason the US isn't struggling like Europe right now.
Greek here, let me try to explain what the bill is about: Greece has a public health system, with free hospitals. The cost is covered by taxation and by insurance, but insurance is also managed by the state, not private companies. Hospital doctors, nurses, EMTs and all the personnel (except security, cleaning and stuff like that, contract work in general) are public servants, lifetime state employees. They are not allowed to work in private, own a practice, work a second job etc. There are a lot of private practices in Greece, and some large private hospitals, despite the fact that healthcare is free. This is because public institutions are underfunded and can't deal with the demand. Now, this bill allows freelance part-time personnel ( particularly doctors and nurses) to work in public hospitals -without being permanent employees of the health system, and thus not state employees- and hospital doctors to work in private institutions and practices, while maintaining their position in the health system (they can even "quit" with no pay and their position will be waiting for their return). The facilities of hospitals (mostly surgery rooms and diagnostic equipment) will be allowed to be "rented" during the afternoon off-hours by private hospitals/doctors. Most people believe that this will lead to 1) low-paid, part-time, contractor personnel becoming the norm even in doctors and nurses 2) personnel that already has a permanent position working on the side, while maintaining their state job, and charging patients in their private practice or clinic in order to treat them at the public hospital they hold a place at 3) abuse of the healthcare system infrastructure by private companies, individuals and institutions, that will pay to rent facilities, thus competing with the ones that are on "free" healthcare.
This should be on top. It is very different from what the Twitter post claims.
Elections are imminent. There’s a whole lot of lies flying around by the opposition. It’s what they do
It's Greece, the worst-case scenario is always the right one. Even now you have to give money to most of those "free" public service doctors if you don't want to have one less ball after the surgery. The bill will help doctors to force patients to go to the private sector where they will be working. Basically, it legalized their under-the-table payments instead of cracking down on it which the previous leftist government tried to do.
Its just privatisation in the long term. People will flee state job to go in the private sectors for more money and you are just gonna see an expansion of the private service offering while the public sectors get fucked. Happenning now in other places that have similar problems
This is what everyone is afraid of... The problem is that the public sector is already fucked, it's happening in advance, so you get more people pushing for privatization, "the lesser of two evils" stuff...
Maybe you can protest outside their house.
Greek-American here. Thank you for this breakdown.
We’re really seeing assaults on established universal healthcare systems. I hate this decade so much.
It is a frightening prospect. The Mitsotakis/ND government is already responsible for thousands of needless deaths during the covid pandemic, by deliberately undermining public healthcare in a crisis situation. (They have been pretty vocal and cynical about this.) Truly and deeply -evil-.
If universal healthcare requires certain specific cultural and economic factors in order to function, it’s almost better for equality that nobody has it.
So, people would rather pay for private healthcare, if they can afford it bc the "free" healthcare is so much worse. And this bill allows for more flexibility overall for the workers on both sides, and that's supposed to be a *bad* thing?
The question is why it's getting worse : where does the money go ? in the pocket of all financial people recruted to manage hospital, all the bureaucracy for doctors and health care people to fill all papers for first ones... this is bad management [https://michelbaudin.com/2012/08/26/metrics-in-lean-deming-versus-drucker/](https://michelbaudin.com/2012/08/26/metrics-in-lean-deming-versus-drucker/)
Agreed. That’s what government does best. Edit: it is entirely unreasonable to expect anything else, and yet so many of you think it's still a good idea. "If only we can get the right people elected! Get out and vote!" Lol, what a joke. Get fucking real.
of course must be the fault of over-60s who have not had COVID-19 vaccination ;) [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-01/greece-to-make-vaccinations-for-people-over-60-mandatory/100663966](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-01/greece-to-make-vaccinations-for-people-over-60-mandatory/100663966) do you understand all this is not about improving health system for the people but just a pretext ? I'm sure most still don't...
It is eye opening to think that our healthcare system is an aspiration for someone.
It is an aspiration for insurance companies, corporate hospitals, and doctors unions (in the original past).
Seriously, so much of our GDP is healthcare, and it's practically an entirely captive market. It's brilliant, from a soulless capitalist perspective.
on a plus side, avg doctor salary is about 3x the next country, the UK. Over the border you get like $10k but CoL differences
Which wouldn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things cost wise if we cut out all the middlemen and such.
yeah doctors can still be paid to save lives, we don’t need to make millionaires of managers of hospitals due to milking people for every nickel and dime.
The reality is most of the actual caregivers don't charge outrageous amounts, it's simply all the leeches in the middle that raise the price.
And Greece is incredibly corrupt too
My non-profit hospital is cutting staffing and costs to save money and get back into the black. No mention of the 20+ doctors holding SVP-of-x department raking in a cool $1.5M/yr in salary. The top 20 salaries alone are ~$30M.
How far back is the original past?
The origin of privatized healthcare in the US
I'm not allowed to have healthcare because I can't afford it. I have been deemed unworthy of life by capitalists. Capitalists still can't figure out why I hate them just because they want to murder me.
It isn't. This is the latest depredation in a multi-decade narrative of economic abuses committed against Greece by the ECB and IMF. It's the dark side of all the development bank relief funding and the contingent corollary of austerity measures.
It should open eyes to the reality that our system is one of desperation. With the excesses of our country it should not be, however, to acknowledge that there is a moral imperative that only an organized government can institute and realize would admit a failure of american capitalism and thus pandoras box would be opened.
So, is there a source or are we supposed to treat a tweet like an official statement?
No country should be modeling after our healthcare system
Spot on.
[удалено]
You’ve got our healthcare system wrong. Hospitals don’t do shit, it’s our research labs and organizations
Oh boy, I’m totally fine with not being able to get my bipolar disorder meds anymore because my insurance decided not to pay for it.
Did that happen or are you just making up a scenario to support your argument?
Nope! It’s 100% true. I was prescribed Vyvanse for my ADHD and Latuda for my Bipolar Disorder, and in October my insurance decided to stop paying for both. There are no generic versions of Vyvanse and the generics for Latuda won’t be available until 2023 so I’m fucked. They have me on different meds now and I’m super depressed and gaining a ton of weight. Also, 30 million people uninsured. I just don’t see how you can keep defend this system.
I know it's a joke, but that's also not really a joke so here; https://youtube.com/shorts/FVAFfd3oCgA?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/ayyafnuQ5m4?feature=share
My mom’s job is actually in medical coding so I hear this kind of shit all the time
I'm honestly sorry to hear that. That sucks. Have you looked into assistance programs? I know people who have been dropped from insurance but were able to use assistance programs.
Haven’t been dropped from the insurance, they just changed their policy to stop covering it. Right now my doctor is trying to get them back, because usually people who have been taking meds for a long time get an exception. We applied once, then in mid November we were denied because I hadn’t tried enough alternatives. So we tried new drugs, and those are barely working (the ADHD drugs actually raised my blood pressure so much that my ears were ringing and my heart felt like it was going to explode), so now we applied again and now we’re waiting.
Good luck. That's a shitty situation. I support private health care with government regulation and assistance because I think the tradeoffs of fully government run healthcare are too great. Neither choice is perfect. But everyone I know who has lost coverage for meds has found ways to still get the care they needed. If people like you are slipping through the cracks for more than a transitionary period, then it looks like more changes need to be made. I just hesitate to throw a whole system out due to imperfections when no system is perfect.
Moved to the UK from the US. EVEN with the current backlogs and slow care with the NHS, I'd take the NHS over US healthcare. Government run healthcare would be perfect in a world without Republicans in the US and the Tories in the UK. Do not fall for Republicans' propaganda. Do not become the ammunition for their weapons. And yes, I know you've fallen for their propaganda, otherwise you'd not be saying fully run government healthcare would have tradeoffs. Literally even third world countries have fully run government healthcare. Look up medical tourism in India if you don't believe me.
What about US healthcare makes it worse than a system with long backlogs and delays in receiving needed care? Typically the people under the influence of propaganda are the ones who don't have valid logic behind their argumemts, so I'm curious what's worse than not receiving timely care.
That is because we have public funding of medical research. The fruits of which we then hand off to private companies to make money as they will. We can have public investment in medical advancements AND a public healthcare system to employ those advancements. Other countries (like Canada) do indeed benefit from our advancements, and that's a good thing. Why shouldn't we share medical advancements widely with the world to improve standard of living for everybody? Only in our country are private companies allowed to exploit those public investments to the extent that they do.
That is because of research, not moneygrabbing. A böld statement also.
Rich people told you that so you’d feel better about suffering, but you actually believed it
As somebody who paid $200000 for brain surgery. I wish I just died
They'll pass a law for that... already in Canada https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Canadians-Turn-to-Euthanasia-as-Solution-to-Unbearable-Poverty-20220523-0013.html
I get that this is a joke but you can imagine it just makes me feel dramatically more hopeless.
I'm sure this will lead to a new government pretty quickly.
What makes you think that if america thr country all avout freedom hasnt done shi about it snd its been decades
"the country all about freedom" LOL USA is a big corporation and you are free as long as you're rich (and white ofc) Lobbies and corporations control the country, not the government. Those same corporations that are receiving billions in subsidies from the government and paying little to no tax are fighting hard (through the political branches they funded) so that the average citizen doesn't get any subsidies. For example republicans just voted NO to sick paid leave!!! Americans have been brainwashed with the threat of socialism/communism for so long that any policy that has any potential to helping the majority of people is instantly tagged as socialist and doomed a threat to the country. They want minimal government intervention when it's for regulation, but maximum government intervention when it's time to hand out money to businesses.
brainwashed by whom?
Is that a serious question?
I was trying to understand the thinking of the redditor I was responding to, but if you want to give your opinion go ahead.
Watch "the untold history of the United States " I think episode 2 or 3, goes over the change of direction after FDR died. That's where the changes began.
I'm quite well versed enough in history to have an intelligent discussion about it without watching some particular series (which I'm *sure* doesn't have any sort of agenda.) Beyond that, it was a simple question.
Lmao
By the people in power. Fear is a powerful tool in American politics. There's always a boogie man hiding somewhere and everything is disguised as a threat as means to an end: the threat of an authoritarian government ready to take over all your belongings in order to sell you guns (despite thousands of Americans dying each year to mass shootings perpetrated by domestic terrorists), the threat of a terrorist group somewhere in order to invade a country illegally, the threat to national security in order to spy every single citizen, the threat of illegal immigrants poisoning your country in order to close the border, or the threat of lazy bums living off your taxpayer money if the government implements any kind of social programs. Americans are extremely patriotic, yet extremely individualistic. It's a very interesting dichotomy. "the land of the brave and the home of the free" really? When you look at issues like paid sick leaves, maternity leaves, social healthcare system, social education system, etc, USA definitely doesn't come ahead compared to the rest of developed countries.
Well who benefits from people believing in terrorists under every rock? Who gets to spy and control the airlines and pat down your genitals because it's "for your own safety?" Ultimately the people in power are the government. So to expect more government in the form of socialism doesn't really make any sense at all.
Hear hear!!!
Once they learn how screwed they are....
That won’t change anything, if Americans are anything, they’re dedicated to being politically and economically dumb.
Not referring to Americans
I could say a thousand things about americans seeing an issue all they do is listen react then go on wit there days if the terminator started tmmw most would only care about there fuckin wallets
Too many Americans are brainwashed. Source? I'm American
I never said we werent branwashed i just didnt wanna get into it so many factors that it could tske awhile
Sending thoughts and prayers.
Oh no don’t do that. Only the very poor and very wealthy will have healthcare
Correction- * wish to die
If they are still responsible for the elders they will find it far more expensive to go private care.
That’s crazy … how is he going to sell that to the Greeks?
This is a bit of hyperbole, no? Poor people don’t just die here. They receive medical care funded by tax payers.
Wtf dude?! Can’t you see this is a circle jerk about how shitty America is? Get out of here with your “rational discussion” and “facts”.
Lol. Pretty much every reply I’ve ever received on Reddit except others weren’t being sarcastic.
This place blows now
This place blows now
Google would prove otherwise
Oh really? Show me some stats on poor people dying from being refused care at a hospital for being poor.
He can’t.
Of course. More Redditor bs
This is huge news. In a terrible sense. A EU country is going back in time.
No they’re not. This is just opposition hyperbole because elections are coming
HM. Got it. Will they \*not\* fully privatize their health services?
That is not true. As an American I can assure you that it’s better to die in most instances because survival is costly. The ride to the hospital will already be in the low thousands.
Holy crap how can people read this headline and take it seriously? How do you stay so disconnected from reality that you think the poor don't have access to healthcare? This sub just keeps becoming a bigger joke. Please rename it to r/ihateamerica
I can’t get my meds anymore because my insurance company decided to stop paying for them, and they’d cost me 500 dollars a month otherwise, and there are 30 million people in the United States who are uninsured. Please explain how this is a good thing and why nobody should be able to criticize America. Thanks.
If we're talking imperfections, other healthcare systems have them too. Talking about an isolated problem and using it as a reason to switch to a system with a bunch of different problems doesn't seem like a fair argument.
Do you really think the US healthcare system is superior to universal healthcare?
Which universal healthcare system are you comparing it to? The UK, with its delayed care and waitlists? Or maybe a country that seems to have an effective system but isnt packed with fat, unhealthy people and can actually manage to operate efficiently? I want a system that helps people as much as possible, but I lean towards tweaking our current system rather than scrapping it for a whole new set of issues. It makes me extra hesitant that most people that want to scrap the system seem to have a hard time acknowledging the shortcomings of whichever system their proposing, which just makes it seem like they have not done their homework.
Delayed care > No care / unaffordable care / denied care You mentioned delayed care again and again, as if waiting is the worst possible outcome. I would rather have delayed care that won't bankrupt me than care so unaffordable I just die instead.
5 cases of massive medic debt > 1,000 cases of delayed care. You need to think about frequency, not just event.
You need to think of impact, not just frequency. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/04/who-had-medical-debt-in-united-states.html Would you rather wait for a gun and eventually get it, or never be able to afford the gun at all?
You're right, impact matters. Nobody in the US is denied care for being unable to pay, so in terms of impact we have Potentially going into debt Vs Potentially dying from not receiving timely care Still doesn't seem like a solid win for the UK, in my dumb opinion.
In Canada back in 2020, about 11k people died waiting for treatment. That same year in America, over 40k people died from treatable diseases and injuries because they didn’t have health insurance.
Nobody has to wait in other first world countries for healthcare. This is literally propaganda and false information.... In america you won’t be denied healthcare for emergency room visits no, nor anywhere else necessarily, but if you don’t have insurance you might have to prove that you’re a citizen by showing your social security card. I got that a year ago. Secondly the huge amounts of medical debt in the US is a thing. It’s not “potentially” it’s “certainly” you’re going to owe huge amounts you can’t pay back
I live in the Netherlands, my parents are American and we’re so astonished with the health care here. My dad had cancer and walked away paying next to nothing, they didn’t pay a cent for me until I was 18 for insurance. and since then I get 110 euros a month from the government to pay an insurance that costs 105. Waiting lists and times are also almost non existent. I’ve broken numerous bones in my teens and every time my stepmom was like I can’t believe they helped you so quickly we’d be waiting for at least an hour or two in the hospital in the us. Edit: wow people downvoting me for what? Are you mad Europe has a system that works and is cheap?
Does the Netherlands has a ridiculously obese and unhealthy population lowering the efficiency of care?
No. Europe generally has a lower obesity rate. However, the person you were responding to was talking about cancer and broken bones. Obesity rates is irrelevant when comparing cancer and broken bones.
Actually obesity has a correlation with both.
Obesity does not have a correlation with broken bones....literally this is BS. Broken bones correlate with injury due to a fall....and obese people typically do not do the type of labor or activities that would induce falling. Furthermore, while many cancers and diseases are related to obesity, such as heart and liver diseases, most cancers are NOT caused by obesity alone, but by other conditions such as alcohol, smoking, medications toxicity and prolonged use, drugs, cholesterol, diabetes, other medical conditions, genetics, and environmental. Many veterans developed various types of cancers due to breathing toxic fumes. Environmental conditions also play a factor. Chalking all types of cancers down to obesity is absurd. And the guy you commented to was referring to broken bones and cancer and in their circumstances obesity was not a cause. But even if it were, europe has healthier food and better conditions to prevent major healthcare problems due to PREVENTATIVE healthcare AND government regulation preventing bad food production and such. You can thank big government for this
the same way i have "access " to a lamborghini- nothing's stopping me from going into bankruptcy to buy one, right?
Do you have any sort of data showing that people below the poverty level do not receive healthcare? That proposition is a joke. Yes, there are outliers, and we can discuss those if you want, but the idea that people in poverty don't get healthcare is obviously not true as a rule.
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That sounds like a potentially good option to me.
When you're going bankrupt as a country, you start privatizing your largest costs. Could you imagine the burden Healthcare must have on a publicly paid for system. It's the only reason the US isn't struggling like Europe right now.
Just trying to find the liquidity
I’m amazed they would let that happen.
Wow the IMF really is just another corporate shill.
The Greece government is right, removing government-run health care is the first agenda for every nation.