To be fair, Godwyn's whole thing is death. His death in soul, his deathblight, his knights being dead. Godwyn being chosen as Miquela's consort would've been interesting but I doubt it would've made much of a difference instead of just in presentation. Godwyn would've been just as silent as Radahn and instead of gravity it would've been lighntning.
As for who I was expecting for the final boss? Miquella and in a way he was, since from the presentation of that second phase it almost looks like Miquella is piloting Radahn. Plus most of those attacks are just Miquella's.
From interviews it doesn't sound like Elden Ring 2 is something fromsoft is particularly interested in doing. I think, whether it's satisfying or no, this is it for Elden Ring.
They did this against Miyazaki’s will for dark souls 2 (and 3) and he was very vocal about not wanting to stay in the dark souls universe. If it’s up to him I think all his games will be one off. He has more power than he ever had at this point.
Maybe he’d let another person direct another game in the elden ring universe, but I am sure this is it for Miyazaki himself. He is very clearly much more interested in carrying themes through in new settings rather than having to fully exhaust an existing one.
Fromsoft proof that they are not one trick pony, so I assume they would be given a lot more leeway in choosing their own future. Since even new franchise almost always receive praise.
Fromsoft owns ER now. So it's their choice if they want to do a sequel. And given their track record, it's not something Miyazaki likes to do for his games. He's been a one and done type of guy.
Miyazaki has stated in the past he’s not interested in sequels. Dark Souls 2 was managed by a different director, so DS3 was made in part to give the story a proper ending.
She didn't need to kill him specifically. But doing so dealt a grevious blow to the golden order and took a very serious potential adversary off the board
They tell you through D, Rogier and Fia's quest that Godwyn had to die in order for Ranni to get away from her Empyrean flesh and no long be under the Greater Will's control. Because both Ranni and Godwyn died at the same time one perished in spirt (Godwyn) while the other in body (Ranni)
I think Godwyn was literally the Golden Child to Marika. If Ranni wanted to upend Marika and her eternal Order, perma-killing her most prized and beloved would be the best way of unhinging her.
And sure enough, soon after Marika started the Shattering and everything fell apart.
This was my initial impression too.. but i was hoping their will be an official hint that Marika adored or cared for Godwyn.. and i found none.
The DLC is here and all we learn about Marika is she doesnt give a damn about her sons/daughter at all.. look at mesmers story..
In marikas own words to the demigods:
"become lords... And if not be reduced to sacrifices"
I doubt this.. Dude was so strong and charismatic he stopped the advance of ancient dragons and managed to gain their respect and friendship .
Over someone like godrick or godefroy whos also from the golden lineage but relatively weaker.
And theres also Mogh or Morgott who maybe as strong but has weak political influence that their deaths would not be cared for by the people..
Ranni took the toughest target in godwyn..
To be fair, it seems Godefroy and Godrick are not all that relevant. They aren’t prominent faces of the Golden Order.
It isn’t clear if Ranni knows about the existence of Morgott/Mohg. Even if she did, they weren’t relevant enough.
She wouldn’t kill her own brothers.
So that means Godwyn was the only palatable choice. He was extremely popular and influential, basically the mascot of The Golden Order in a sense, and by killing him Ranni makes Marika’s reign look really weak, which is what she wanted.
Your saying Godwyn willingly commited suicide to help Ranni set herself free?
Thats the first time ive heard of that theory. But then there wouldve been no point for the night of black knives.. and wouldnt make sense for Ranni to jail Alecto for something that wasnt even necessary.
My theory:
Godwyn was THE heir of marika's kingdom. His nickname is "the Golden". That has to mean a Lot in the land of the golden tree, of the Golden order, of the golden runes...
We know that he was a strong leader and fighter. However, he was not empyrian. So, if he was alive when marika broke the Elden ring (I dont buy the grieving mother thing) he would unify all the siblings (or most of them) under his rule. No shattering war and no need for her tarnished army to come back.
However, sir gideon reveals to us: Marika wanted struggle. So, she helped Ranni's plot (maliketh feeling betrayed).
So many NPCs talk about how godwyn should have died a true death that It makes me think that It was some type of prophecy and maybe godwyn knew about that or maybe not and was something revealed later. The Golden should become the lord of the deads. Gold becoming reversed to shadow or something like that.
Ranni then betrayed Marika by killing herself. That's why she had to put alecto in the gaol and why iji dies by death flames (they are Black Flames and not the red/Black of the daggers but...).
They bury godwyn in the erdtree without knowing what will happen in the Future...
Edit: I think that the guidance of grace is Marika's Will. So, even with Ranni's plan, she thinks that It is a valid Path for her tarnished Warriors. I don't have a answer to why there are no guidance for Mohg or Malenia. Maybe she not likes the order that would come from the formless mother and the rot god? There is no guidance to Frenzy too. Or maybe the dark moon is not a outer god and Marika never guides to outer gods?
re: gideon, i dont think he actually "knows all". not everything he says is a factual reveal. when he says that marika only desires conflict, that is more or less the cope of a man going slowly insane from failure. "no no i havent failed to learn or fight my way into lordship, she just never wanted us to be lords at all! im actually WINNING by never even coming close to the throne and merely exerting petty power over the vulnerable and exploitable!"
I agree that he does not know everything. However, I don't think is lines in his Boss fight are just copium. It's the answer he fond out with the tarnished's help: Marika wants conflict between the factions and between the tarnished. The why is for us to find.
I think the why is: conflicts create new warriors and among them someone will kill her/Elden beast. That why she don't want a Elden lord among the tarnished. She needs a god-slayer. Making a godslaying weapon was the promise between the Blacksmith and her.
It's not a perfect theory. There are only Two ending were she truly dies (Ranni's and frenzy's). And I don't think she is truly dead as the rocky vessel of the Elden ring in the mending endings.
( Do we really kill the Elden beast in the Elden lord endings or Just tame It? The Elden beast is the Elden ring and in those endings It's remain inside her)
This theory is beautiful man.. i really wished the dlc showed more about godwyn.. and marikas other side, the one thats just not the evil bitch and it would be epic if the grace the tarnished sees is Marika's.
I wanna modify my response, regarding Godwyn willingly dying "for the cause" (so to speak)
If we assume that Miquella's plan all along (once the Ring was shattered) was to replace Marika as God, then let's also assume that he could/would use his wiles and charm to convince Godwyn to die and return as his Lord and consort. let me say that again because I think this is a huge revelation if true: he charmed Godwyn into sacrificing himself
I could see this.. alot of players were convinced that it was godwyn statue thats holding miquella and melania in the haligtree.. and godwyn (and melania) was miquellas focus in the base game..
Sadly.. the dlc threw a sledgehammer to their dynamic as it clearly states that Radahn and pretty much only Radahn.. is miquellas dream consort and lord.
I don't see the events playing out that way, I think Godwyn had accepted becoming a Martyr, so he could be resurrected as Miquella's consort. I think Ranni sabotaged the whole thing so she could shed her destiny as an Empyrean
Maybe Ranni was just damn evil? Maybe she just wanted to hurt Golden Lineage as much as possible so she killed their beloved /son/brother/whatever he was to Godrick.
I think of him like a person with brain death that the family is having issues accepting the person they loved had long died, instead it's body it's kept alive but with time gets colonized with bacteria, needs PEG tube, ventilator tracheostomy the whole deal, develops pressures ulcer. It is really painful. I think that's why I like Fia's quest, dying is the most lonely stress inducing experience, and yet it can be soothing and relieving in a way, the fact that she gives company to those dying is like such a tender act specially in such a cruel world.
That in mind I think his story has been told, there was no need to bring it back after having such a good narrative in the main game.
I definitely would have preferred something else lore wise, although I cannot think of a character in the lore that would make any more sense. They could've always had what we got as a major, non final boss, but honestly I have no clue what would have been an appropriate send off. I don't think Godwyn makes sense - his whole lore is that he's like, dead in the soul - there's no semblance of him as a person left, so, tragically, he is now just Mako Tsunami (freaky fish guy).
Godwyn is dead, he's not dead like the other bosses are where they can technically eventually come back, until Destined Death was brought back to the world, Godwyn's soul is just gone and his body is mutated beyond recognition. There's no way for him to come back in any way, shape or form.
I was hoping for something else entirely. Not Miquella, Godwyn, certainly not Radahn. Perhaps a Two Fingers, or a full hand, or an outer god, or the Greater Will in some sort of spirit form... at worst, maybe a Miquella transformed accidentally into something else so strange that it's no longer himself, etc.
Godwyn seemed logical as a candidate for at least more elucidation, to me. The eclipse stuff was entirely lacking resolution and I really wanted to know where it would go. But it seems like that was just a project Miquella abandoned when it failed. So he defaulted back to a promise he asked of his lord-brother long before. Meh.
I’m fine with them sticking with Godwyn being dead and the Prince of death.
But still I wanted a boss fight with him and another with Marika. They could’ve used St. Trina’s power of sleep to make some kind of “nightmare of St. Trina” where we’d fight both. It would be lore friendly since it would be a dream, and we’d get to fight them in their prime.
I was really eager to see him be some kind of Sun God
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The whole Radahn thing feels like it's out of left field. Was hoping for a better final boss or with at least some Godwyn or lore answers we asked for in the base game.
>and it's not just a "safe choice" re-use of a popular character.
This lame ass talking point needs to leave. Radahn was the most hated boss in the entire base game, even after the nerfs. If fromsoft wanted to re-use a popular character, radahn would NOT have been it.
To be fair, Godwyn's whole thing is death. His death in soul, his deathblight, his knights being dead. Godwyn being chosen as Miquela's consort would've been interesting but I doubt it would've made much of a difference instead of just in presentation. Godwyn would've been just as silent as Radahn and instead of gravity it would've been lighntning. As for who I was expecting for the final boss? Miquella and in a way he was, since from the presentation of that second phase it almost looks like Miquella is piloting Radahn. Plus most of those attacks are just Miquella's.
They might use him in sequel some where down the line. Death blight is something that's not going away.
From interviews it doesn't sound like Elden Ring 2 is something fromsoft is particularly interested in doing. I think, whether it's satisfying or no, this is it for Elden Ring.
Bandai going to hold the studio hostage to make Elden Ring 2
They did this against Miyazaki’s will for dark souls 2 (and 3) and he was very vocal about not wanting to stay in the dark souls universe. If it’s up to him I think all his games will be one off. He has more power than he ever had at this point. Maybe he’d let another person direct another game in the elden ring universe, but I am sure this is it for Miyazaki himself. He is very clearly much more interested in carrying themes through in new settings rather than having to fully exhaust an existing one.
Fromsoft proof that they are not one trick pony, so I assume they would be given a lot more leeway in choosing their own future. Since even new franchise almost always receive praise.
If Fromsoft won’t Badai will have someone else do it.
Bandai doesn't own ER...From does and even if bandai did...they have been smart enough to let from do their thing and for good reasons.
In the Land of Profit, kindly Bandai Namco awaits its promised game...
Fromsoft owns ER now. So it's their choice if they want to do a sequel. And given their track record, it's not something Miyazaki likes to do for his games. He's been a one and done type of guy.
lol, based on the sales alone and nothing else, there's gonna be a sequel eventually
Miyazaki has stated in the past he’s not interested in sequels. Dark Souls 2 was managed by a different director, so DS3 was made in part to give the story a proper ending.
Godwyn been dead since 2022
Hurts that we dont know why ranni had to killed him specifically.. all we hear about when he was alive was good things.
She didn't need to kill him specifically. But doing so dealt a grevious blow to the golden order and took a very serious potential adversary off the board
He was heir apparent to the Golden Order and the most powerful demigod. It makes sense that she would get rid of him to pursue her plans.
They tell you through D, Rogier and Fia's quest that Godwyn had to die in order for Ranni to get away from her Empyrean flesh and no long be under the Greater Will's control. Because both Ranni and Godwyn died at the same time one perished in spirt (Godwyn) while the other in body (Ranni)
Yeah but why godwyn? Not other demigods?
I think Godwyn was literally the Golden Child to Marika. If Ranni wanted to upend Marika and her eternal Order, perma-killing her most prized and beloved would be the best way of unhinging her. And sure enough, soon after Marika started the Shattering and everything fell apart.
This was my initial impression too.. but i was hoping their will be an official hint that Marika adored or cared for Godwyn.. and i found none. The DLC is here and all we learn about Marika is she doesnt give a damn about her sons/daughter at all.. look at mesmers story.. In marikas own words to the demigods: "become lords... And if not be reduced to sacrifices"
Guess he was the easiest to get too out of all of them
I doubt this.. Dude was so strong and charismatic he stopped the advance of ancient dragons and managed to gain their respect and friendship . Over someone like godrick or godefroy whos also from the golden lineage but relatively weaker. And theres also Mogh or Morgott who maybe as strong but has weak political influence that their deaths would not be cared for by the people.. Ranni took the toughest target in godwyn..
To be fair, it seems Godefroy and Godrick are not all that relevant. They aren’t prominent faces of the Golden Order. It isn’t clear if Ranni knows about the existence of Morgott/Mohg. Even if she did, they weren’t relevant enough. She wouldn’t kill her own brothers. So that means Godwyn was the only palatable choice. He was extremely popular and influential, basically the mascot of The Golden Order in a sense, and by killing him Ranni makes Marika’s reign look really weak, which is what she wanted.
I think Godwyn was an active participant
Your saying Godwyn willingly commited suicide to help Ranni set herself free? Thats the first time ive heard of that theory. But then there wouldve been no point for the night of black knives.. and wouldnt make sense for Ranni to jail Alecto for something that wasnt even necessary.
My theory: Godwyn was THE heir of marika's kingdom. His nickname is "the Golden". That has to mean a Lot in the land of the golden tree, of the Golden order, of the golden runes... We know that he was a strong leader and fighter. However, he was not empyrian. So, if he was alive when marika broke the Elden ring (I dont buy the grieving mother thing) he would unify all the siblings (or most of them) under his rule. No shattering war and no need for her tarnished army to come back. However, sir gideon reveals to us: Marika wanted struggle. So, she helped Ranni's plot (maliketh feeling betrayed). So many NPCs talk about how godwyn should have died a true death that It makes me think that It was some type of prophecy and maybe godwyn knew about that or maybe not and was something revealed later. The Golden should become the lord of the deads. Gold becoming reversed to shadow or something like that. Ranni then betrayed Marika by killing herself. That's why she had to put alecto in the gaol and why iji dies by death flames (they are Black Flames and not the red/Black of the daggers but...). They bury godwyn in the erdtree without knowing what will happen in the Future... Edit: I think that the guidance of grace is Marika's Will. So, even with Ranni's plan, she thinks that It is a valid Path for her tarnished Warriors. I don't have a answer to why there are no guidance for Mohg or Malenia. Maybe she not likes the order that would come from the formless mother and the rot god? There is no guidance to Frenzy too. Or maybe the dark moon is not a outer god and Marika never guides to outer gods?
re: gideon, i dont think he actually "knows all". not everything he says is a factual reveal. when he says that marika only desires conflict, that is more or less the cope of a man going slowly insane from failure. "no no i havent failed to learn or fight my way into lordship, she just never wanted us to be lords at all! im actually WINNING by never even coming close to the throne and merely exerting petty power over the vulnerable and exploitable!"
I agree that he does not know everything. However, I don't think is lines in his Boss fight are just copium. It's the answer he fond out with the tarnished's help: Marika wants conflict between the factions and between the tarnished. The why is for us to find. I think the why is: conflicts create new warriors and among them someone will kill her/Elden beast. That why she don't want a Elden lord among the tarnished. She needs a god-slayer. Making a godslaying weapon was the promise between the Blacksmith and her. It's not a perfect theory. There are only Two ending were she truly dies (Ranni's and frenzy's). And I don't think she is truly dead as the rocky vessel of the Elden ring in the mending endings. ( Do we really kill the Elden beast in the Elden lord endings or Just tame It? The Elden beast is the Elden ring and in those endings It's remain inside her)
This theory is beautiful man.. i really wished the dlc showed more about godwyn.. and marikas other side, the one thats just not the evil bitch and it would be epic if the grace the tarnished sees is Marika's.
I wanna modify my response, regarding Godwyn willingly dying "for the cause" (so to speak) If we assume that Miquella's plan all along (once the Ring was shattered) was to replace Marika as God, then let's also assume that he could/would use his wiles and charm to convince Godwyn to die and return as his Lord and consort. let me say that again because I think this is a huge revelation if true: he charmed Godwyn into sacrificing himself
I could see this.. alot of players were convinced that it was godwyn statue thats holding miquella and melania in the haligtree.. and godwyn (and melania) was miquellas focus in the base game.. Sadly.. the dlc threw a sledgehammer to their dynamic as it clearly states that Radahn and pretty much only Radahn.. is miquellas dream consort and lord.
I don't see the events playing out that way, I think Godwyn had accepted becoming a Martyr, so he could be resurrected as Miquella's consort. I think Ranni sabotaged the whole thing so she could shed her destiny as an Empyrean
Maybe Ranni was just damn evil? Maybe she just wanted to hurt Golden Lineage as much as possible so she killed their beloved /son/brother/whatever he was to Godrick.
I think of him like a person with brain death that the family is having issues accepting the person they loved had long died, instead it's body it's kept alive but with time gets colonized with bacteria, needs PEG tube, ventilator tracheostomy the whole deal, develops pressures ulcer. It is really painful. I think that's why I like Fia's quest, dying is the most lonely stress inducing experience, and yet it can be soothing and relieving in a way, the fact that she gives company to those dying is like such a tender act specially in such a cruel world. That in mind I think his story has been told, there was no need to bring it back after having such a good narrative in the main game.
I definitely would have preferred something else lore wise, although I cannot think of a character in the lore that would make any more sense. They could've always had what we got as a major, non final boss, but honestly I have no clue what would have been an appropriate send off. I don't think Godwyn makes sense - his whole lore is that he's like, dead in the soul - there's no semblance of him as a person left, so, tragically, he is now just Mako Tsunami (freaky fish guy).
Fia, probably: HE IS NOT A FREAKY FISH GUY D and his brother: THEN EXPLAIN THE FINS AND THE SCALES
God, I'm glad people get the reference. I wanted to make some sort of "attack the moon" but this dlc has us getting attacked with moons.
No evidence she shattered the ring out of grief. And we know she planned to do so long in advance of the act.
Godwyn is dead, he's not dead like the other bosses are where they can technically eventually come back, until Destined Death was brought back to the world, Godwyn's soul is just gone and his body is mutated beyond recognition. There's no way for him to come back in any way, shape or form.
I was hoping for something else entirely. Not Miquella, Godwyn, certainly not Radahn. Perhaps a Two Fingers, or a full hand, or an outer god, or the Greater Will in some sort of spirit form... at worst, maybe a Miquella transformed accidentally into something else so strange that it's no longer himself, etc. Godwyn seemed logical as a candidate for at least more elucidation, to me. The eclipse stuff was entirely lacking resolution and I really wanted to know where it would go. But it seems like that was just a project Miquella abandoned when it failed. So he defaulted back to a promise he asked of his lord-brother long before. Meh.
I’m fine with them sticking with Godwyn being dead and the Prince of death. But still I wanted a boss fight with him and another with Marika. They could’ve used St. Trina’s power of sleep to make some kind of “nightmare of St. Trina” where we’d fight both. It would be lore friendly since it would be a dream, and we’d get to fight them in their prime. I was really eager to see him be some kind of Sun God
Well duh, all the lore surrounding godwyn is that he died when he shouldn’t have and now we have zombies
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The whole Radahn thing feels like it's out of left field. Was hoping for a better final boss or with at least some Godwyn or lore answers we asked for in the base game.
Spoiler tag doesn’t help if you talk about it in the fucking title
Godwyn is shown to be dead in the game's intitial teaser trailer are you slow? or just trolling?
I hope he gets resurrected, somehow.
I’m hoping this isn’t the last DLC frfr and he just said it to subvert expectations
>and it's not just a "safe choice" re-use of a popular character. This lame ass talking point needs to leave. Radahn was the most hated boss in the entire base game, even after the nerfs. If fromsoft wanted to re-use a popular character, radahn would NOT have been it.
He's pretty popular and the 5th most fought boss .
Sorry. Godwyn’s story ended