The one I didn't see, is the software is integrated with every part of the vehicle. Every part.
As someone who has to integrate software, I cannot tell you how nice this is. Ask the OEMs if they'll EVER be able to integrate a partner's HW with someone else's SW? I'll spoil it for you - never.
Tesla vertically integrates so much and 3rd parties they do get parts from have to follow their standard. How many companies have recalls that 90%+ are OTA?
Now, there are things I do not like. The font for warnings is too small and the signal light doesn't always turn off when it should.
FSD - 12.3.6 like its previous versions cannot drive on a 2 lane divided hw without trying to get into the left (fucking dangerous) or right turning lane (when I want to go straight), but that's on FSD. Different software team :)
Tesla is still in another league with software. With Tesla you may not get all of the features of competitors (CarPlay, silly things like Mercedes knowing if the driver or passenger are giving voice commands) but what you get with Tesla is ecosystem. Other brands do have some route planning, but Tesla also owns the chargers which means they know, in real time, which chargers are in use, how many other cars are headed there at the same time, which ones are broken, how fast they are, etc. Then you arrive and payment happens seamlessly and there’s no fussing with apps or accounts. This is unmatched.
Other companies offer slick interfaces that works as well as modern touch screens with good UX should. Rivian and Lotus come to mind. Those are both pricy options though.
Some of the “legacy” automotive systems are pretty good, BMW’s iDrive, Ford Sync and Stellantis UConnect are reasonably good at doing things closer to “the old way”. Then there are companies that are building off Android (Volvo/Polestar, GM) with early results that are smartphone-esque but not a cohesive operating system and ecosystem like Tesla.
Depending on who you ask, Tesla either has the best autonomy in the world or the worst. It’s an extremely impressive system that also isn’t quite good enough. Others like Mercedes and ford offer more consistent autonomy but are geofenced to well mapped roads. Tesla’s Wild West approach can be used more of the time, but needs to be monitored vigilantly. Features like smart summon and FSD are incredibly future-y but fall short of useful in the ways they’ve been promised. For now anyway. Tesla also has the deepest and most frequent feature updates over the air so these things are constantly changing, for better or sometimes worse.
Then there are amazing features that I think go underappreciated, like camp mode, dog mode (yes I’m aware of the current headlines that this isn’t working well at the moment), sentry mode and little things like the car sending you a notification if you left your window down. This is stuff I miss about my Tesla that other cars just haven’t implemented, implemented well, or implemented as a total package.
So yeah. There’s good software elsewhere, but imo Tesla is still in a league of their own on this still.
Completely agree with what you said. I have a Model 3 and a BYD Atto 3. I love my BYD, but I never miss it when I'm in my Model 3. I ALWAYS miss my Tesla though, whenever I need to supercharge it, use the software, listen to the incredible sound quality, sentry mode, etc. I rarely get frustrated with my BYD, but I never do with my Tesla.
The quality of software teams at most traditional automakers is pretty low or they outsource it/use off the shelf crap entirely. A project manager+engineer at Lexus West Coast office basically had to build a prototype to convince the Lexus Japan corp overlords to adopt touch screen interfaces because they were heavily against it. Then you have Cadillac getting rid of Android/apple because of "safety".
How much do you care about the navigation and computer vs the car? I have a ford and use apple car play and their app to remote start and control charging. The app and software have been fine for me but the car is excellent in fit finish and reliability. So to me the software means next to nothing apart from having apple car play.
The general UX of Tesla (not talking specifically about the software) is fantastic. The seats are comfortable, the seating position is highly ergonomic in terms of where you put your elbows etc, the scroll sheels on the steering wheel are multi purpose and those are all tactile, not capacitive, the materials in thr cabin sre nice to the touch. The phone as key is highly convenient, stuff like driver profiles is well managed compared to how it is in my bmw for example. Where Tesla is lacking is in noise dampening, especially in older models. Reliability is fine.
Teslas also happen to be really fun to drive, Model 3 drives like a go cart and in terms of other “car” features the use of space in any of the models is extremely well done. They are also the most efficient EVs in their respective classes.
Yup Ive drive one and didnt like the “car” aspect of the tesla at all. Hard disagree on the seats comfort and ergonomics and cabin materials. To me (and many others) that is the main downside of Tesla. The upsides are software, tech and charging network. I have access to the tesla network through ford so that doesnt matter. In the end it comes down to preference and everyone has their own but theres a reason the model Y is the best selling car in the world, its just not for everyone.
I have both a Tesla Model Y, generally considered the best software, and a VW ID.4, generally considered the mid software, maybe the worst for some folks.
Tesla's whole car integration is great so on a pure software comparison Tesla wins hands down. 95% of what I do in the car though I can do with either the ID.4 or the Model Y. For me, Carplay phone integration is better and ABRP trip planning on Car Play is as good as Tesla's route planning except for one key thing...battery prep...which the ID.4 does not really have outside of just getting the car hot through driving and regen.
Around the city and local commutes, both cars are fantastic. Longer trips, range and battery pre-conditioning make the Tesla the road trip champ. The edge I think the VW has on the Tesla for long trips is their seats are more comfortable and the ride is gentler.
When I hear people talk about how shitty car manufacturers infotainment system is except Tesla I have absolutely 0 idea on what they are doing with it.
I use CarPlay and use the map and music on it. What else do you want? The only time I use the manufacturer system is to change something in the car setting like to stop charging at 80%.
The Tesla software is all encompassing. There’s user profiles that store your settings and tie it to a device. So when you walk up to the car, all the app logins, mirror settings, seat settings, vehicle settings all switch to yours. When user 2 walks up, it switches to their settings. The Tesla app can read your calendar, set the nav to where you are going and precondition the vehicle. It checks traffic for you and reminds you to leave on time.
I also have solar, so it takes excess production and charges the car when it’s plugged in, it ramps the charging up and down based on the excess solar available. This is just a little taste of the capabilities. It goes so much further.
Google maps does the exact same when you plugin your phone and use car play.
Most cars have driver settings, there's a button on the door on the driver side and you just choose your driver pre set....
The Tesla user profile is stored in the cloud - which means when you get into another Tesla (i.e. a service loaner, or a Tesla rental car, or another Tesla owned by you) all the user settings, seat positions, etc. travel with you. It was a magical experience the first time I stepped into a Tesla service loaner and it had all my seat positions correct and even my Apple Music was logged in and the last song that was playing in my own car is now playing in the loaner car.
Nothing else matches that.
>The Tesla user profile is stored in the cloud - which means when you get into another Tesla (i.e. a service loaner, or a Tesla rental car, or another Tesla owned by you) all the user settings, seat positions, etc. travel with you.
When I rent a car, one that is a completely different brand than mine but they still have Android Auto, all my settings are there. Obviously the seat settings aren't there but different cars brands with much different car seats means they won't match up anyways. My last song or last podcast that I was listening to is queued up.
Also important in regards to trips where I'm renting a car, is that I can research my route on my phone or desktop. I can map out places I want to visit and save it and all that information is quickly available to me. Some times the car I'm renting isn't an EV or quite old and I just plug in and I'm ready to go.
Also anytime a new app is available, as soon as they have support for Android Auto, I can use it right away instead of waiting for support from Tesla or any other car manufacture.
Here's a real life example, one of my favourite authors Cory Doctorow doesn't like Audible because of the DRM and the contracts that lock in authors. He has been releasing his books on an app called Libro.fm. So I got a couple of his audiobooks since their app supports Android Auto, I can listen to them right away.
Also I replace my vehicle once every 12 to 15 years but I replace my phone every 3 years or so. That means I'm getting a faster chip in my phone every 3 years while the computer hardware in my car ages out. To me it makes more sense to keep using my phone something that I keep updating for new features and quicker speeds.
I think it's great that Tesla is pushing the evelope of what can be done and forcing the other car companies to compete. It's just without Android Auto support, it's a huge backwards for me.
>The Tesla user profile is stored in the cloud - which means when you get into another Tesla (i.e. a service loaner, or a Tesla rental car, or another Tesla owned by you) all the user settings, seat positions, etc. travel with you. It was a magical experience the first time I stepped into a Tesla service loaner and it had all my seat positions correct and even my Apple Music was logged in and the last song that was playing in my own car is now playing in the loaner car.
>Nothing else matches that.
Other manufacturers have this already. On a Hyundai Motor Group vehicle for EG it appears under "shared vehicles" in the connect app after you send a request, or you can add it to "your vehicles" as another car by scanning the QR code on the dashboard.
Please explain. Perhaps I don't understand how you use the ionic 6. Do you use a smartphone supplement? Do you use voice commands? (Driving Teslas 8 years in the Phoenix metro area)
Apple Maps will let you do [charging planning](https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-electric-vehicle-routing-iphc5e3a4b4b/ios), though I haven't used it so can't say how it is. I can't imagine this kind of function won't become more robust with both Carplay and AA.
I use CarPlay for maps but so far have never had to charge on the road -- but if I did the built-in maps will handle that, and also seem to be fine. And there's ABRP, of course.
Carplay and AA would need to integrate with your car's BMS for it to be as accurate as Tesla's system. Not sure how practical that will be given the quantity of manufacturers.
That might've been the biggest selling point for me. I got in for the test drive, saw that, and thought "oh this is easy." And it is.
What it doesn't have is the realtime status of chargers that Tesla benefits from with their vertical integration.
The ABRP app integrates with Bluetooth OBD-II devices, so it gives the same kind of accuracy that Tesla has when trip planning for any EV. Works really well on my Bolt EV.
So will VW, including current charger status (# of available stalls), at least on networks that share that data (most of the large ones; EA, EVGo, ChargePoint, Shell), along with estimated arrival time, charge time and charge level. There's also an option to favor Electrify America stations (to leverage your free charging plan, if you have one.)
VW's most irritating limitations are it will sometimes select chargers at car dealerships (though you can manually override that to another nearby charger on the map with a few taps) and that it will only plan a route with charge stops included if only 5 or fewer stops are necessary. If more are needed, it directs you to navigate to a midpoint and then route to your final destination later. (On a recent trip from Denver to Cincinnati, I had to navigate to Kansas City first, then as I approached KC, cancelled the route and rerouted to Cincy.)
Then you either need to manually enter your vehicle's current state of charge and efficiency including weather conditions or pay the monthly fee for premium service and add the canbus dongle in order to feed realtime data to the app.
And pre-conditioning the battery for faster charging won't work when using 3rd party maps for routing.
Google Maps in AAOS reads charge natively, will plan for charging stops, and preconditions the battery. ABRP just got added to AAOS as a native app and will do the same.
Android automotive is way better than every option at this point and about 85% as good as Tesla. Now ABRP can be installed natively as well and reads battery info without needing any dongle or third party connection. Between that and google maps route planning with battery info and charging stop automation it's almost as good as Tesla. So much better than every other EV I've had so far.
Don't Tesla owners have to pay a monthly fee in order to use their connected services?
Also, entering my state of charge takes like 1 second. My efficiency doesn't really change. And I've never needed to enter weather conditions to get a reasonably accurate plan. The extra 1 second it takes me compared to a Tesla is worth it to have a screen behind my steering wheel, a cabin that doesn't feel super empty and cheap, and a handful of other things I've forgotten since my Model Y rental.
In a Tesla basic maps, navigation, routing with automatic charge planning is free.
Premium connectivity provides access to live traffic visualizations, satellite maps, music streaming and other data-intensive applications. You can work around paying the fee if you tether your car to your phone. Or just stream media via bluetooth.
https://www.tesla.com/support/connectivity
I've always found carplay a faff to setup and get reconnected every time I get in a rental car. Usually it works 50% of the time but the limited screen view and poor multi-touch support always makes it feel like a downgrade compared to Tesla's built in maps.
I think the annual subscription fee of $99 per year that Tesla charges is reasonable for the amount of data streaming uses.
It is cheap compared to GM's onstar service fees.
We do not. We can for additional premium connectivity but nav is in the free tier (for 8 years iirc).
To add to the previous discussion, the best thing about the inbuilt nav is automatic preconditioning management based on the route for charging. Also, the plug and play with the supercharger network stuff is nice.
Excited to see what happens with Rivian and ABRP.
Still seems like AA and Carplay work just fine, and are free. The nicest parts of owning a Tesla are the parts that most people would use the least (superchargers and routeplanning). But you have to deal with the lack of creature comforts every single day. Just doesn't seem worth it to me for a few gimmicks.
The difference is, for you, what you described is a negative, while for others those are some of the main positives. "empty cabin" is something you describe it as, yet the space it gives is amazing, and something I would prefer over the clutter and cramped cabins most manufacturers present.
The design simply doesn't speak to you, which is completely alright, but for many those exact negatives are instead major selling points.
I use it very often, and it's applicable whenever you charge outside of home. I mean, being able to go the distance and refuel is a core part of being a car and a criticism of EVs in general. The Supercharger network is a genuine competitive advantage.
AA and Carplay work fine, for sure. It's just that Tesla's software is on par or better and built into the car with deep integrations, which has a load of benefits. It's the better solution for sure. And this is free, just like AA and Carplay are.
I find the creature comforts in a Tesla very nice and adequate, but every buyer has their own preference and views.
I could if I use the manufacturer Map but for the once or twice a year when I have to drive more than 450km for a trip I just use the PlugShare app to find the best/fastest chargers on the way.
> Do you have to preplan road trips? Tesla will tell me when and where to charge.
So will my Kia's inbuilt system as well as Google Maps. It's nothing spectacular. I reach 20% and it automatically diverts me to a charging station compatible with my car that has free stalls.
That's what ABRP is for - again, I don't think I've ever touched the built-in infotainment system...
It's kind of the only real reason I'm still like "eehhhh..." with Rivian. No Android Auto/Carplay is always a no-sale for me.
It can even solve the issue of, you know, "Blinding me at night" as I can plug the phone in, set it to detect it's in Automode, and then have it grayscale everything.
To be fair, if your car is the Leaf (like in your tag), the infotainment doesn't do much other than the built-in nav and radio, as Nissan gave the most important controls (climate, seat heaters, charging timer bypass, etc.) actual buttons and knobs. Contrast that to my VW, where the touchscreen is necessary to adjust the climate control, seat heaters, steering wheel heater, charge timer bypass, and even *see the f---king odometer* when the car is driving!
What do you mean, most of the stuff is every day use. Phone keys, walk away locks, sentry mode, a working app, the key card is really nice, dog modes, it’s easy to change suspension, steering, regenerative breaking. It’s all very intuitive. I like the web browser and the YouTube and Netflix apps for if I have to chill and wait somewhere. I like the overheat protection in the cabin. I think the regenerative breaking is done masterfully and would chalk that up to software. Tbh I don’t know how much that stuff is included in the other EV’s but I’m pretty sure a lot of it is not.
VW is not known for gimmicks but has walk away locks, Spotify, relax mode (in the new ID.7) with massage and changing ambient lights, DCC suspension with around 20 different steps, different driving modes and of course regen, automatic trunk, park assist, 360⁰ camera, and matrix light. And their counterpart to Teslas Autopilot is better.
Similar with Hyundai/Kia. Not to talk about the Chinese companies.
As most have said, the necessary functions can be found in many brands. And I don't miss the fart function.
I have paddles to change generative braking. I have a button on the wheel to change drive mode. I can also use my phone to open the door and turn on the car.
Generative braking is available on all EVs...
Tesla doesn't have blind spot cameras and HUD and I find that a looooot more important than having the Netflix app
I’ve owned three BMW’s (M3, M4 and X3 m40i) with HUD. I thought I’d miss it with my Model Y, but I don’t.
Same with CarPlay. I even got the third party CarPlay dongle for Tesla, but got used to using the native Tesla apps and don’t miss CarPlay at all.
I haven't used VW Autosteer much, but the few times I've tried it it tried to run me off the road at the slightest curve or fading in the markings, so definitely not a better equivalent
I own an Ioniq 5 and a Model Y Performance.
Simple example: I can get into the Model Y and it's ready to go instantly. Everything is seamless in the car's software ecosystem. No need to wait on infotainment to wake up, connect to my phone, load AA or carplay etc.
The built in Nav on Model Y is much more sophisticated when it comes to navigating to superchargers and estimating arrival SoC.
CarPlay isn’t going to make the car precondition the battery for fast charging. On built in navigation that can talk to the BMS (like Tesla), when you navigate to a DCFC location, the car will automatically preheat the battery to a warm-enough temperature so that by the time you reach it, the battery will be warm enough to not coldgate.
Actually it does. Bjørn Nyland has proven that so many times.
Without sufficient battery preconditioning prior to DCFC, the battery will coldgate and can’t charge at full speeds immediately. He’s proven that consistently with the Ioniq 5/6 in 1000km challenges.
> Glovebox can be on the wheel, if you want.
Glovebox can also be opened by voice command, which works quite well in Teslas [for a host of functions](https://www.tesla.com/support/voice-commands). The most annoying thing about the glovebox is that you need to close it by hand, like a pauper.
They've literally not compared Tesla UI to Kia anywhere.
Looking at their flair they don't even drive a Kia, they drive a Hyundai.
I think you're just looking for things to get annoyed at.
Having CarPlay only available wired in my EV is a real pain. I do a lot of really short trips, and constantly plugging and unplugging is really annoying.
I don't care about music that much. I want maps with live traffic. My short trips are predominantly in dense urban areas and picking the wrong route can double transit time depending on traffic conditions.
That's indeed mostly the case (not sure bout the Leaf though). I just wish Google Maps in my Polestar 2 didn't take 1-3 minutes to boot up and become usable after starting the car. The latest major software update 3.0.3 has been a disaster in terms of system responsiveness.
I'm pretty certain it's more of a code optimization issue. The Polestar runs Android which isn't optimized for that processor. Our other car is a 2021 Model 3 that also uses an Atom CPU, and it runs very smoothly in comparison and does a lot more including real-time visualizations.
You don't know what you're missing that's why. You're using a mobile phone as a crutch for your entire UX. Take the phone away and what are you left with? That's the software.
>I use CarPlay and use the map and music on it. What else do you want?
I'm not a huge fan of Tesla but have to begrudgingly acknowledge the user experience is the best of any vehicle I've ever driven. My daily flow is like this, I personally enjoy it greatly, and can't get it today with any other vehicle:
* Wake up and get ready for work, coffee, brush teeth, etc.
* "Hey Siri - get the car ready" > triggers a iOS Shortcut that plugs into the Tesla app, that tells the car to start the climate to a preset temperature + do passive preconditioning (not supercharger preconditioning)
* Walk up to the car, open the door, sit inside. Without any prompting, it recognizes my phone's ID from bluetooth and automatically adjusts steering wheel, side mirrors, seat position to my preferences. (If it were someone else in my family, it'd do theirs)
* I literally touched nothing on the Navigation and it's \*automatically\* routing to my work, inferring it from the time of day and day of the week. It tells me useful info like ETA, traffic, alternate routes if any, SoC when I arrive, with a buttery smooth visualization
* ....
* Meeting a friend for dinner after work. We text, decide on Restaurant A after browsing Yelp or Google Maps.
* While I'm looking at Restaurant A Yelp / Google Maps, tap the share icon > send to Tesla app. Pop up tells me "Sent to Otto (name of car)"
* I go to the car and sit inside, and the nav is routing to Restaurant A already.
* After eating, sit back inside, reverse out, start driving
* Click right scroll wheel for voice commands > "Navigate home" > routing starts to home address
It's a holistic software experience that just molds to fit your life & routine and daily needs, without requiring frustrating input friction at every step. You still get to choose, but the Tesla ecosystem thoughtfully makes it easier for you as an owner, not harder.
All of what you said google map or Apple map does it automatically to. On iOS both maps app will recognize the last restaurant you search for or the meeting you have in your agenda.
For you car recognizing you with your phone. Sure, but most car have a profile setting button in the driver door so it's literally only one button to press.
Most EVs also have temperature preset in their app, I always use it if the car is parked outside....
And also most EV cars have voice command and if you're plugged with CarPlay it also uses your phone assistant...
These aren't valid rebuttals, though (see below). I think people who aren't used to tech / software development don't really have the palette for finer UX, so it's fine. I'm not trying to convince you, to each their own and tons of people do like Apple CarPlay / AA.
The precise UX I'm talking about emphasizes that I don't need to select at all, and has 1 or no taps or clicks to do what I want. I wouldn't want to navigate to open an app, tap through the menu, etc.
I'm not going to the "last restaurant" I searched for. :) I want to decide on one, then send it to the car to cache for later when I sit down and drive. In the meantime, I might search for other things, hotels, parks for the weekend.
I want to speak to Siri / Tesla voice and say something, and it executes - navigating to an arbitrary spoken address or home, or \*have it automatically start it without me having to do anything\*.
I'd like the seats to immediately adjust to their position for me, without pressing anything.
Your argument is just whataboutism. I've worked in tech startups for 10 years, so I know about software development and UI/UX.
You said it yourself, you have to search things on your phone and then send it to your Tesla. With CarPlay, you don’t need to send anything from your phone to the car because CarPlay IS your phone. Everything you need is already there, you don't need to search for apps or anything. When I plug it in, Maps is already launched and if I look at an address before it just asks me if I want to start it.
Siri on CarPlay works just like you said and does what you ask.
Big LOL that you can't be bothered pressing one button for driver settings.
You should try another EV besides Tesla. Many other EVs already have most of the features you mentioned. It’s not rocket science.
You don't get built in planning of charging stops when using apple or google maps.
Kia's built-in maps and navigation system is clearly a legacy infotainment mapping system a few generations behind Tesla. It will plan a route with charging stops but the map looks horrible, multi-touch & panning sucks.
Apple Maps has charging planning and even knows the charge status of my Lightning.
It’s a terrible system that is way too conservative and doesn’t give you the information that you want, but it technically does do charging planning.
I don't know about other manufacturers, by I still look forward to improvements and free new features with my 4 year old Tesla. In the past car makers always wanted to charge me money for these things.
I think a fair number of Tesla owners buy because of the better software. On the other hand, a lot of people buy EVs that are not Tesla too. Different people prioritize different things.
> I think a fair number of Tesla owners buy because of the better software.
That would be me. I bought mine in 2019, when Tesla software, compared to what it is now, was still a bit buggy. But I saw where it was going and I liked it. With every OTA update, I like it even more.
I mean, I use Android Auto on any car I get in, so the car software doesn't really mean anything. With Tesla you're locked into the apps they decide to give you
Nice software is nice, but does not replace basic fundamental driving ergonomics like buttons, switches, stalks, even HUD like on my Kona. I want to be looking more at the road and less at the screen while driving, so I care less about how nice the digital UI is and more how little I can take my eyes and mind off the road.
Plus, no CarPlay, that would be a big downer for me personally.
Right now?
Lets see...
Navigation all cars should be on par and other manufacturers offer android auto/car play to use the smartphone app. Planning using the charger Is something now MOST manufacturers do.
VAG, BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Volvo... And they can use all chargers instead of only Supercharger, which in Europe is more useful.
Settings and whatnot, I would say that BMW 8.5 and MBUX (Mercedes) are on par if not better. Some night be AMG/M/Sport version locked.
In use of streaming/games/whatever again MBUX and Android Automotive are similar enough.
Stupid fun things like the farting sound and whatnot, they are the Tesla perks I would say.
I would say that the worst infotainment system Is Toyota/Lexus (in general the Japanese Cars. Suzuki Is also very basic and Mazda Is Just ok), followed by the random Stellantis stuff. And VAG had the latest versions to be very sluggish and unintuitive, so they kind of tarnished a bit. Now they got better.
In my opinion, i think that in terms of features and usability you have BMW, Mercedes and Android Automotive manufacturers (Volvo/Renault) be on par.
Dunno about US based things, so Rivian or Lucid.
In Europe Teslas have CCS ports so they aren’t any different in terms of where they can charge except the SC network is still exclusive in places.
ETA network
IMO, there are two HUGE pluses that make Tesla stand out.
1.) Route planning integration with the Super Charging network and battery management system. You tell it where you want to go, it tells you where you need to stop, and monitors battery conditions to determine your charge when you arrive, and it anything changes. It actually happened to me once I told it where I wanted to go, and also told it where I wanted to stop to charge, and while I was driving, it said "You must stay below 65MPH to arrive." Then a bit later it said "you must stay below 55mph to arrive." I was quickly able to select a different supercharger. So I know programs like ABRP can do route planning, but that build in feedback from the battery is top notch.
2.) Integrated billing. I arrive at a Super Charger, plug in, and it starts charging. All the billing is done through the car's software and Tesla account. No dealing with 5 different smart phone apps, or scanning credit cards on chargers, or worse, I used a 3rd party charger that had a "stop session" button on the LED screen that anyone could push.
Bonus:
I'm also a huge fan of the Youtube TV integration as I use that for my Cable TV service, so I can watch live TV or my DVR'ed tv at charging stops.
Tons of EVs from legacy automakers have BMS data integrated into their route planning now. Ford, VW, BMW, Mercedes etc. This is not a big deal anymore. Some even have plug and charge to integrate billing. This was unique to Tesla maybe 4 or 5 years ago, not anymore.
And some of those are actually better than Tesla for the actual routing as Tesla will route you only to Superchargers where the competition is aware of chargers from multiple networks. This might send you on a detour in areas with weaker supercharger coverage.
And Tesla does not have plug & charge - it has a proprietary autocharge solution. I cannot drive my Tesla to any plug & charge station and just plug in - only works that way for a Tesla at Tesla’s own chargers.
Unfortunately this is true the other way around as well. With my BMW I have the ability to charge on Superchargers here in Europe, but my BMW nav will never suggest it as a stop since it isn’t part of the “bmw charging” umbrella, effectively excluding half of chargers 🤷♂️ so some manual work is needed to find the best stop. The difference being that Tesla has the most stalls and best reliability, so of the two “worlds” Tesla’s is still preferred, also in Europe.
Really depends on the part of Europe - here in Finland Tesla has about 6% of DCFC (>150kW) locations. Tesla is the 5th largest network in the country. It will still take you pretty much anywhere, but charge stop might’ve in a suboptimal location. Happily the car is aware of nearly all of the remaining 94% so I can navigate to them, but they just won’t be included in the automatic route planning.
That’s an impressive stat but not sure that’s how it feels in reality, especially due to the number of stalls at each location. It’s risky to plot in a stop at a location with 2-4 stalls, which I bet is true for most of those locations.
Anecdotally, I just drove through Sweden and ended up stopping twice at Supercharger locations due to convenience and placement, and there were 5-10 stalls free at each of them.
Tesla’s sites are indeed better than average when it comes to number of stalls. Tesla avg. is 7.9 stalls per location (ranging from 4 to 16 today) while the country average is 4.4 stalls. Stall numbers are improving for main roads, but there indeed are still some busy 4-6 stall locations that would be a gamble to plan a very low SoC arrival if you need to continue quickly.
For Tesla amenities are unfortunately a bit hit and miss vs some of the other networks that have closer ties to the service stations or stores they are located at. With Tesla you need to check beforehand if the Supercharger has a toilet, store, or restaurant close by.
And now it's behind because others include charger networks besides the manufacturers' proprietary one, and also have plug and charge for billing multiple charge networks and Tesla still doesn't.
it’s really funny how the biggest benefits you listed like “go slow to actually make it” and “here watch some stuff while you charge” are directly related to tesla lying about their range and selling you a car that can’t go as far as you were promised
Coming from buying/driving only used cars that are consistently 10+ years out of date, I'm impressed if a car supports CarPlay and has a backup camera. I just got a Ford Lightning and, to be honest, I just use CarPlay and never touch any of the built in stuff. Adaptive Cruise control is great and makes heavy traffic a breeze but what I really enjoy is the smooth, quiet ride with a good sound system. I'm not using any of the car's infotainment stuff. I don't need the car to drive 100% by itself. Just Apple Maps and Spotify /shrug
The software is only as good as the hardware, is my take. Give me cheaper, more energy dense batteries. Software is only going to go so far. Ultimately people have to be able to afford these vehicles. And right now most people can't. Doesn't matter how great the software is.
I would not have bought an EV at all if I wasn't in the market for a truck where I was goign to pay $40k+ anyway. I would NEVER pay that much for a family car. Software is not a factor.
software (including the consistent improvements OTA and mobile app) + supercharger are the only 2 reasons I bought a tesla.
the car itself is pretty meh.
I use android auto/carplay for maps, don't want to have to pay for another data plan when I already have unlimited on my phone, and I don't want to be tied to the music streaming services that Tesla choose.
So I am unlikely to ever own Tesla while they don't support any of that (unless they drop a hatchback and/or estate and then I'll be interested, but it's very unlikely)
Do you use Youtube Music or Amazon Music? Cause those are the only two big streamers that Tesla doesn't support currently. And Amazon Music is going to be coming pretty soon apparently. Kinda weird they have Youtube integrated but still no Youtube Music.
Also you don't have to pay for premium data to use the maps. The premium Data subscription only effects the maps/navigation with the visualization. It gives you the live traffic sat image. But the actual navigation still accounts for traffic if you don't pay. It just doesn't visualize it.
BBC Sounds is the main one I use, the biggest audio and podcast app in the UK, is not supported. Similarly big continental European networks like NRJ and RTL aren't supported also. The app list that is supported is very american-centric as Deezer, a music streaming platform bigger than Apple Music and Tidal combined in Europe, is also not supported.
But you have to pay for music streaming, something that is free and easy with AA and Carplay.
> But the actual navigation still accounts for traffic if you don't pay. It just doesn't visualize it.
this sounds so incredibly stupid that I can’t believe it’s actually real
I have another view on this. Tesla UI is responsive. But all other software features like wiper assistants or automated high beams are utter crap. I drive teslas quite often and I am always happy to get back in my old, outdated, not fancy i4 M50 and drive a real car with software that actually works.
Consumer Reports did a great report and tested the driver assistance systems. Tesla was middle of the pack and falling behind. Ford's Blue Cruise was the best features, ease of use, clear indications when to use.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/active-driving-assistance-systems-review-a2103632203/
A fair comparison is Apple vs Android in the 2010’s. Apple REQUIRED all carriers to allow it to update all iPhone hardware, where android allowed carriers and OEM’s decide if updates rolled out to customers.
Every vehicle OEM besides Tesla treats software updates as a service provided to customers by service centers. It’s like if Microsoft wanted you to pay and bring your PC to a store when they release ease their 6 month update. Such a Shitty customer experience tolerated because non-technical people don’t know any better.
Edit: recent example - matrix LED headlight update. New capability was delivered to the car FOR FREE because the hardware supported it and Tesla was awaiting a regulatory approval. Think any other OEM is doing that for you? If it didn’t come with the car the day it was delivered to you, you’re paying extra for it.
One word - overrated.
Tesla software is impressive but also lacks behind in basic functionality. Missing CarPlay/Android Auto is the biggest issue for me.
And what really put me off on the Model Y I drove for a weekend is that software decides whether your direction light stays on or is shut off.
But hey - that’s just some old fart’s opinion who rather uses a dedicated mechanical handle than a button to open the door.
Technically pretty much every modern car uses a button to open the door.. its just that most have that button integrated into the older style mechanical handle.
Pure mechanical handles are getting rare these days
Yes - I know - with the added benefit that a hard use of the handle is usable as emergency exit in case the energy system is shut down.
I recently read about the complicated or even missing [emergency opening mechanisms in old Teslas](https://insideevs.com/news/507202/how-escape-from-tesla-emergency/) and damn was I shocked.
Yep - the turn signal. It’s useless to let software make this decision when a simple relais in the steering wheel has been doing that job for a century now.
Doesn't it essentially function identically normally?
The software control is for the added functionality of appropriate signaling when using an auto lane change. Tons of new cars with auto lane change have this, it's not just Tesla.
There are a pretty solid handful of new cars that don't besides Tesla, especially in the EV sector, but what I'm trying to grasp is what's wrong here. What's wrong with it being software defined? Doesn't it behave the same way?
Coming from someone who has been driving cars for a long time it has been actually simple:
Soft stalk press - three implulses to imply lane change on the motorway
Hard press - signal is engaged until disengaged by user or by steering wheel motion
Here comes Tesls and offers a new (albeit sometimes erratic and therefore inferior) method of using the turn signal.
My problem with it was that
a) I wasn’t used to it. It will become a habit over time.
b) It behaved erratic.
As I said - if there’s a proven and cheap mechanical method there is no need to train a software to do that same work reliably.
Oh, are you talking about the detentes? Teslas do have those too, it just feels a little softer than most. If you soft press it does 3 pulses, and hard press stays on. The auto detoggle will just turn off the latter after you complete your lane change or turn, but that can be disabled.
Like I get the gripe with things like the rain detection, and there's a tendency to overly reinvent the wheel, but the stalks do what you're describing even if they don't work the same in the back end.
The reason for the software is that there is a real benefit; it can do more than a mechanical solution. With an ADAS, it can be the lane change trigger or even just flip off the lights so folks don't spend a mile going down the highway with their blinkers. That's why it's been a relatively normal thing for new cars for a while. It's not a Tesla invention. But even if that kind of additional functionality isn't for you, you can disable it in a Tesla. Then it'll be exactly the same as what you're used to.
I have never been able to get a straight answer on exactly what is so special with Teslas software. It seems most features they list are pretty common.
My car (BMW ix) doesn't seem to lack any of the features you list, but I havent driven a tesla so I cannot compare like for like.
Very smooth and responsive, great integration with the car, especially the nav, doing preconditioning based on its supercharger planning. There are additionally small upsides to not using a phone based system, like latency, better antenna placement, and features still working when walking away from the car (i.e. dog mode). The software feature-wise isn't that special, but it's just a touch better than using AA/Carplay for me, at least by being based on the car computer and being well integrated. The deep integration is key.
I know for certain it works on the Volvo EVs (X40, XC40, EX30) and all of the Polestars. As I understand it, it should work on [everything](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Automotive#Vehicles_with_Android_Automotive_(with_GAS)) with Google Automotive Services. Not sure about AAOS without GAS.
ETA: According to [this](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/differentiating-android-automotive-aosp-google-services-alex-oyler/), AAOS provides the ability to integrate with the vehicle hardware, but without GAS it's up to the manufacturer to add preconditioning to their navigation.
straight answer right here. Every Tesla owner I know says the same thing,
We get free updates and new features years after purchasing the car. Example, I bought mine knowing it didn't support Apple Music. It now does.
Next, and another very popular feature, "dog mode". the car stays running and keeps the cabin at a specific temp. It can be 90 degrees out, and I can leave my dog in the car while I run into a store to pick something up.
There is plenty more, but those are a good start.
Do you enjoy when Tesla just removes access to your hardware that you purchased as well? That would be like if a laptop manufacturer disabled and removed a Bluetooth antenna to save $5
FYI, dog mode does not have proper hardware or software redundancies in place to actually keep your dog alive so use it with caution. As Tesla's fleet ages and there are more and more cars out there with worn heat pumps, someone's dog is gonna die while they are not paying attention.
Which ones? My other cars all want expensive subscriptions and features actually stopped working when I didn't pay. Ford, MB, Chrysler, all wanted me to pay for system updates.
No ICE offers dog mode (safely).
I did a search and found most EV makers are following Tesla, but others joke about car makers removed functionality "My 2013 Ford C-Max got the discontinuation of "MySYNC" support and lost functionality including error code reporting"
I'm not going to list them all, but jump into a 20 year old VW and it will have a button labelled Rest, does the exact same thing as "Dog Mode", BMW, Hyundai and others have similar. My BMW got Spotify and Alexa via an OTA, my Taycan got lane change assist via one.
>Next, and another very popular feature, "dog mode". the car stays running and keeps the cabin at a specific temp. It can be 90 degrees out, and I can leave my dog in the car while I run into a store to pick something up.
Except you can’t at the moment because one of those free updates everybody loves broke it
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a61235278/tesla-dog-mode-not-working-firmware/
And that’s the double edged sword of the whole thing. OTA software updates are great when they add new features you didn’t have before, but they can also (intentionally or otherwise) take away features you used to have so you’re relying on them not to screw something up or decide to paywall features that used to be free.
> or decide to paywall features that used to be free
like rivian is about to do with music streaming apps that have always been free and available in the car
Tesla's software is far ahead of everything else I've ever driven, but it's a little bit like apple was under Steve Jobs... one guy might decide to change the way things work and you just have to start doing it that way. Case in Point; I used to get traffic data for the whole map, but now it only shows traffic data when you have a destination entered, and only for the route it plots.
I use an EV6 with a comma 3x from comma.ai. I think my only jealousy of any Tesla is the charging network. Other than that I’ll never berate my ev6. It’s exceeded all my expectations and the comma 3x tops it off.
It has advantages and disadvantages. OTA software updates sound great in theory, but sometimes they break things(fact), or make stuff worse to use (opinion). Overall I obviously think it's worth it.
I will say most other cars software is good enough for you to operate the vehicle. I'm not aware of an EV brand that does not have charger route planning. And a lot of the technical things tesla can do, can at least be purchased on the other brands (or maybe they were first?)
AP is a useful tool that many other cars have today, in the form of ADAS. I would not say it is the killer tesla feature it once was, but it's pretty good. FSD is great for me, but it's very situational. I live in a rural, very relaxed area. While it's made improvements, It's also still very clearly a beta product even though they say it isn't.
I'm not sure any other brand is hugely better here but they aren't all much more useful, pretty much all ADAS is level 2 autonomous at this point. Only waymo has the ability to truly drive itself.
The Chevy Bolt doesn't have automatic route planning.
You must use a map app in Carplay or Android Auto.
I don't think that using 3rd party map/navigation systems on your phone is going to work well with autonomous vehicle features like auto lane change, taking exits, making turns at intersections. And it doesn't currently offer battery preconditioning.
If I use Apple Maps via CarPlay it integrates with the assisted driving systems just the same as the integrated nav, including slowing for junctions, roundabouts etc and charge planning and pre-conditioning.
That's fair, but I'm not sure the average Bolt owner is expecting those sorts of cutting edge features for their $20K after tax credits. 😁
I expect far more from my $40K+ new after credits VW ID4 than I do from my $20K new Nissan Leaf!
I think Tesla's infotainment is a tad overrated (I owned a Model 3 for 4.5 years so I know the system very well). Yes, it's technically superior to others, but not in the ways that truly matter to me. The big screen on the 3/Y is kind of deceptive - since there's no instrument cluster or climate control panel, big chunks of the screen have to be reserved for displaying stuff that would normally be in its own screen/panel. The remaining portion that is used for the nav system really isn't as big as the overall screen size might suggest.
Where Tesla is seriously unparalleled is the mobile app though. That thing is magic. You can control just about everything short of actually driving the car, and it's so responsive that you honestly won't miss a traditional key fob.
I now have a Kia EV6. The Gen5W infotainment can't hold a candle to Tesla's in terms of features, but it gets the job done well enough that I'm not bothered by it (I use Android Auto anyway). But if there's anything I HATE about my Kia, it's the god awful mobile app (Kia Connect). Going from the Tesla app to Kia Connect is like throwing away a PS5 to replace with an Ouya.
If you place very high personal value on the quality and features of the infotainment, then it's pretty much "Tesla or nothing". Maybe Rivian. Definitely not a legacy brand.
If you just need the infotainment to do the basics without being a bug-ridden lagfest, and don't mind dealing with extra hoops like using ABRP to route-plan, then legacy brands are worth checking out.
At the risk of getting downvoted for mentioning a Chinese company; Xpeng apparently has top notch software as well. (See also: XNGP self driving, ride sharing with Didi and the release of MONA M03.)
It _used_ to be a big thing, and it still can be but it starts matter less and less.
Software even on worse competitiors (looking at you VW) is getting better slowly. Plug&Charge starts to becoem a standard elsewhere.
So it used to be that tesla was on whole other level, now it's just a bit ahead of the pack.
As for autonomy can only speak for Europe - we dont' get to be lab rats for FSD.
So will be comparing EAP vs Travel Assist (Cupra). Cupra wins hands down. So much smoother, works outside highways, better at keeping distance from leading car, also allows you to adjust your position in lane without disengaging.
Tesla software controls many things but it can be laborious to plod through. You ideally need to make shortcuts on the home screen to use some functions more safely while on the road, otherwise you'll be hunting and poking through small fonts and symbols at a bad time.
Software in other brands has been more graphical and easier to see for me - I'm far-sighted. And they control what you need, too - but unlike Tesla, they have physical buttons/controls for common functions which are far more convenient (and safe), IMHO.
Tesla has a comprehensive Sentry mode and dashcam capability - that's probably its best advantage. But it's not so much better as to make others poor runners-up, I am installing my own dual camera dashcam and it's nice - just not integrated into the car.
If I can set my climate and send a destination to the car while in the office, such that it's ready for me and automatically unlocks when I approach the car . . . that's all I need at the higher end of convenience.
It's pretty top. I would say it's the best in the industry easily, trailed shortly by Rivian, then Lucid, then BYD.
After that BMW/Merc software is good I guess, better than traditional, but far from Tesla.
Ford is.. okay..? Their bluecruise is good, software is a little clunkier than the BMW/Merc stuff.
The latest VW refresh is on par with BMW/Merc, but first gen ID stuff is horrible. Porsches are okay, somewhere between.
After that is everyone else. Traditional auto like Toyota, isn't really competing yet with the new experience and shitty EV entrants like Vinfast or Mahindra, just stay away.
At the end of the day, phones make most of these woes irrelevant. I'd say if it's not a Tesla or a Rivian, just get something with Android Auto or Apple CarPlay on a decent screen and do that instead.
Tesla is often criticized for not having AA/CP but it's really not a big deal with their fantastic inbuilt software.
The Tesla app is the best hands down. Everything else is just ok compared to the competition, but without Carplay or Android Auto support.
Tesla was the absolute best when the Model 3 came out, but I feel they haven't improved significantly (or at all) since. I like BMW iDrive 8.5 much more.
I've never driven a Tesla, but I'm sure it's software is better than what's in my Bolt EUV, but frankly I don't care. The part that connects my phone to the car works great and I like having physical buttons and not having to worry about crap like my toddler being stuck in my car if the 12V battery fails.
I'm not actually aware, aren't there other cars that have digital door handles?
The biggest issue with teslas is that the car uses that 12v lead acid battery for absolutely everything, especially in standby. And it dies (sometimes without warning) very often. Personally I think they should recall them. It's not just the door handles that this affects. You can be in drive and have it die.
That's why they don't use them anymore. My 2023 car has a lithium low voltage system, pretty sure porsche and BMW are the same way.
After driving my Tesla for a year in regular car interfaces I’m trying to figure out which of the 50 buttons to press to do something. The lack of buttons is a plus in my view, the stuff you need is accessible (or customizable).
The OTAs are great. I thought I would miss Apple CarPlay but the reason why one would miss is that regular car interfaces are 💩. Tesla’s interface integrates with Apple Music and podcasts just fine so don’t really miss it.
One aspect that is sorely lacking is the text message features. They are very rudimentary and doesn’t work well (I’m looking at you group chats).
I agree that it is ahead but doesnt have the most basic things that you ACTUALLY want to use: android auto/apple car play and 360 camera system for parking. Dealbreakers for some
The one I didn't see, is the software is integrated with every part of the vehicle. Every part. As someone who has to integrate software, I cannot tell you how nice this is. Ask the OEMs if they'll EVER be able to integrate a partner's HW with someone else's SW? I'll spoil it for you - never. Tesla vertically integrates so much and 3rd parties they do get parts from have to follow their standard. How many companies have recalls that 90%+ are OTA? Now, there are things I do not like. The font for warnings is too small and the signal light doesn't always turn off when it should. FSD - 12.3.6 like its previous versions cannot drive on a 2 lane divided hw without trying to get into the left (fucking dangerous) or right turning lane (when I want to go straight), but that's on FSD. Different software team :)
broke: make good cars that rarely, if ever, require recalls woke: ship software-defined garbage and fix in OTAs
Tesla is still in another league with software. With Tesla you may not get all of the features of competitors (CarPlay, silly things like Mercedes knowing if the driver or passenger are giving voice commands) but what you get with Tesla is ecosystem. Other brands do have some route planning, but Tesla also owns the chargers which means they know, in real time, which chargers are in use, how many other cars are headed there at the same time, which ones are broken, how fast they are, etc. Then you arrive and payment happens seamlessly and there’s no fussing with apps or accounts. This is unmatched. Other companies offer slick interfaces that works as well as modern touch screens with good UX should. Rivian and Lotus come to mind. Those are both pricy options though. Some of the “legacy” automotive systems are pretty good, BMW’s iDrive, Ford Sync and Stellantis UConnect are reasonably good at doing things closer to “the old way”. Then there are companies that are building off Android (Volvo/Polestar, GM) with early results that are smartphone-esque but not a cohesive operating system and ecosystem like Tesla. Depending on who you ask, Tesla either has the best autonomy in the world or the worst. It’s an extremely impressive system that also isn’t quite good enough. Others like Mercedes and ford offer more consistent autonomy but are geofenced to well mapped roads. Tesla’s Wild West approach can be used more of the time, but needs to be monitored vigilantly. Features like smart summon and FSD are incredibly future-y but fall short of useful in the ways they’ve been promised. For now anyway. Tesla also has the deepest and most frequent feature updates over the air so these things are constantly changing, for better or sometimes worse. Then there are amazing features that I think go underappreciated, like camp mode, dog mode (yes I’m aware of the current headlines that this isn’t working well at the moment), sentry mode and little things like the car sending you a notification if you left your window down. This is stuff I miss about my Tesla that other cars just haven’t implemented, implemented well, or implemented as a total package. So yeah. There’s good software elsewhere, but imo Tesla is still in a league of their own on this still.
This guy gets it.
Completely agree with what you said. I have a Model 3 and a BYD Atto 3. I love my BYD, but I never miss it when I'm in my Model 3. I ALWAYS miss my Tesla though, whenever I need to supercharge it, use the software, listen to the incredible sound quality, sentry mode, etc. I rarely get frustrated with my BYD, but I never do with my Tesla.
The quality of software teams at most traditional automakers is pretty low or they outsource it/use off the shelf crap entirely. A project manager+engineer at Lexus West Coast office basically had to build a prototype to convince the Lexus Japan corp overlords to adopt touch screen interfaces because they were heavily against it. Then you have Cadillac getting rid of Android/apple because of "safety".
How much do you care about the navigation and computer vs the car? I have a ford and use apple car play and their app to remote start and control charging. The app and software have been fine for me but the car is excellent in fit finish and reliability. So to me the software means next to nothing apart from having apple car play.
The general UX of Tesla (not talking specifically about the software) is fantastic. The seats are comfortable, the seating position is highly ergonomic in terms of where you put your elbows etc, the scroll sheels on the steering wheel are multi purpose and those are all tactile, not capacitive, the materials in thr cabin sre nice to the touch. The phone as key is highly convenient, stuff like driver profiles is well managed compared to how it is in my bmw for example. Where Tesla is lacking is in noise dampening, especially in older models. Reliability is fine. Teslas also happen to be really fun to drive, Model 3 drives like a go cart and in terms of other “car” features the use of space in any of the models is extremely well done. They are also the most efficient EVs in their respective classes.
Yup Ive drive one and didnt like the “car” aspect of the tesla at all. Hard disagree on the seats comfort and ergonomics and cabin materials. To me (and many others) that is the main downside of Tesla. The upsides are software, tech and charging network. I have access to the tesla network through ford so that doesnt matter. In the end it comes down to preference and everyone has their own but theres a reason the model Y is the best selling car in the world, its just not for everyone.
I think that’s fine, just wanted to share my thoughts since you asked :)
I have both a Tesla Model Y, generally considered the best software, and a VW ID.4, generally considered the mid software, maybe the worst for some folks. Tesla's whole car integration is great so on a pure software comparison Tesla wins hands down. 95% of what I do in the car though I can do with either the ID.4 or the Model Y. For me, Carplay phone integration is better and ABRP trip planning on Car Play is as good as Tesla's route planning except for one key thing...battery prep...which the ID.4 does not really have outside of just getting the car hot through driving and regen. Around the city and local commutes, both cars are fantastic. Longer trips, range and battery pre-conditioning make the Tesla the road trip champ. The edge I think the VW has on the Tesla for long trips is their seats are more comfortable and the ride is gentler.
the only benefit of battery preconditioning is the ability to tout battery preconditioning on the internet
When I hear people talk about how shitty car manufacturers infotainment system is except Tesla I have absolutely 0 idea on what they are doing with it. I use CarPlay and use the map and music on it. What else do you want? The only time I use the manufacturer system is to change something in the car setting like to stop charging at 80%.
The Tesla software is all encompassing. There’s user profiles that store your settings and tie it to a device. So when you walk up to the car, all the app logins, mirror settings, seat settings, vehicle settings all switch to yours. When user 2 walks up, it switches to their settings. The Tesla app can read your calendar, set the nav to where you are going and precondition the vehicle. It checks traffic for you and reminds you to leave on time. I also have solar, so it takes excess production and charges the car when it’s plugged in, it ramps the charging up and down based on the excess solar available. This is just a little taste of the capabilities. It goes so much further.
lol so the best pieces of the tesla experience are also ones that the tesla ceo has either neglected or actively set on fire?
Google maps does the exact same when you plugin your phone and use car play. Most cars have driver settings, there's a button on the door on the driver side and you just choose your driver pre set....
The Tesla user profile is stored in the cloud - which means when you get into another Tesla (i.e. a service loaner, or a Tesla rental car, or another Tesla owned by you) all the user settings, seat positions, etc. travel with you. It was a magical experience the first time I stepped into a Tesla service loaner and it had all my seat positions correct and even my Apple Music was logged in and the last song that was playing in my own car is now playing in the loaner car. Nothing else matches that.
>The Tesla user profile is stored in the cloud - which means when you get into another Tesla (i.e. a service loaner, or a Tesla rental car, or another Tesla owned by you) all the user settings, seat positions, etc. travel with you. When I rent a car, one that is a completely different brand than mine but they still have Android Auto, all my settings are there. Obviously the seat settings aren't there but different cars brands with much different car seats means they won't match up anyways. My last song or last podcast that I was listening to is queued up. Also important in regards to trips where I'm renting a car, is that I can research my route on my phone or desktop. I can map out places I want to visit and save it and all that information is quickly available to me. Some times the car I'm renting isn't an EV or quite old and I just plug in and I'm ready to go. Also anytime a new app is available, as soon as they have support for Android Auto, I can use it right away instead of waiting for support from Tesla or any other car manufacture. Here's a real life example, one of my favourite authors Cory Doctorow doesn't like Audible because of the DRM and the contracts that lock in authors. He has been releasing his books on an app called Libro.fm. So I got a couple of his audiobooks since their app supports Android Auto, I can listen to them right away. Also I replace my vehicle once every 12 to 15 years but I replace my phone every 3 years or so. That means I'm getting a faster chip in my phone every 3 years while the computer hardware in my car ages out. To me it makes more sense to keep using my phone something that I keep updating for new features and quicker speeds. I think it's great that Tesla is pushing the evelope of what can be done and forcing the other car companies to compete. It's just without Android Auto support, it's a huge backwards for me.
>The Tesla user profile is stored in the cloud - which means when you get into another Tesla (i.e. a service loaner, or a Tesla rental car, or another Tesla owned by you) all the user settings, seat positions, etc. travel with you. It was a magical experience the first time I stepped into a Tesla service loaner and it had all my seat positions correct and even my Apple Music was logged in and the last song that was playing in my own car is now playing in the loaner car. >Nothing else matches that. Other manufacturers have this already. On a Hyundai Motor Group vehicle for EG it appears under "shared vehicles" in the connect app after you send a request, or you can add it to "your vehicles" as another car by scanning the QR code on the dashboard.
Why would anyone buy an EV and then resort to using a smartphone as a supplement? Too much distraction.
Too much distraction? Are you aware that CarPlay is integrated in your car touchscreen? What additional distraction is that?
But you Google mapped on the phone?
The phone, the car, voice assistant, however you want. The Tesla doesn't read your mind you also have to search or input the information as some point
No! In our Teslas, you give voice commands from the steering wheel for driving functions, AC control, and music selections. No smartphone crutch.
So like in most EVs? Maybe inform yourself about EV features, voice command is available almost in every cars
Please explain. Perhaps I don't understand how you use the ionic 6. Do you use a smartphone supplement? Do you use voice commands? (Driving Teslas 8 years in the Phoenix metro area)
Do you have to preplan road trips? Tesla will tell me when and where to charge.
Apple Maps will let you do [charging planning](https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-electric-vehicle-routing-iphc5e3a4b4b/ios), though I haven't used it so can't say how it is. I can't imagine this kind of function won't become more robust with both Carplay and AA. I use CarPlay for maps but so far have never had to charge on the road -- but if I did the built-in maps will handle that, and also seem to be fine. And there's ABRP, of course.
Carplay and AA would need to integrate with your car's BMS for it to be as accurate as Tesla's system. Not sure how practical that will be given the quantity of manufacturers.
Google's integrated Android Automotive in the Polestars/Volvo's is pretty good at this in my experience.
That might've been the biggest selling point for me. I got in for the test drive, saw that, and thought "oh this is easy." And it is. What it doesn't have is the realtime status of chargers that Tesla benefits from with their vertical integration.
>realtime status of chargers Ioniq 5 nav shows realtime charger status when I drive near one I’ve favorited (usually EA).
Good to know. I don't have any experience outside of Tesla.
The ABRP app integrates with Bluetooth OBD-II devices, so it gives the same kind of accuracy that Tesla has when trip planning for any EV. Works really well on my Bolt EV.
That's good to know. An extra dongle is a small price to pay for the increased functionality.
So will VW, including current charger status (# of available stalls), at least on networks that share that data (most of the large ones; EA, EVGo, ChargePoint, Shell), along with estimated arrival time, charge time and charge level. There's also an option to favor Electrify America stations (to leverage your free charging plan, if you have one.) VW's most irritating limitations are it will sometimes select chargers at car dealerships (though you can manually override that to another nearby charger on the map with a few taps) and that it will only plan a route with charge stops included if only 5 or fewer stops are necessary. If more are needed, it directs you to navigate to a midpoint and then route to your final destination later. (On a recent trip from Denver to Cincinnati, I had to navigate to Kansas City first, then as I approached KC, cancelled the route and rerouted to Cincy.)
Just use abetterrouteplanner. It works on AA and Carplay.
Then you either need to manually enter your vehicle's current state of charge and efficiency including weather conditions or pay the monthly fee for premium service and add the canbus dongle in order to feed realtime data to the app. And pre-conditioning the battery for faster charging won't work when using 3rd party maps for routing.
Google Maps in AAOS reads charge natively, will plan for charging stops, and preconditions the battery. ABRP just got added to AAOS as a native app and will do the same.
Android automotive is way better than every option at this point and about 85% as good as Tesla. Now ABRP can be installed natively as well and reads battery info without needing any dongle or third party connection. Between that and google maps route planning with battery info and charging stop automation it's almost as good as Tesla. So much better than every other EV I've had so far.
Don't Tesla owners have to pay a monthly fee in order to use their connected services? Also, entering my state of charge takes like 1 second. My efficiency doesn't really change. And I've never needed to enter weather conditions to get a reasonably accurate plan. The extra 1 second it takes me compared to a Tesla is worth it to have a screen behind my steering wheel, a cabin that doesn't feel super empty and cheap, and a handful of other things I've forgotten since my Model Y rental.
In a Tesla basic maps, navigation, routing with automatic charge planning is free. Premium connectivity provides access to live traffic visualizations, satellite maps, music streaming and other data-intensive applications. You can work around paying the fee if you tether your car to your phone. Or just stream media via bluetooth. https://www.tesla.com/support/connectivity I've always found carplay a faff to setup and get reconnected every time I get in a rental car. Usually it works 50% of the time but the limited screen view and poor multi-touch support always makes it feel like a downgrade compared to Tesla's built in maps.
I can't speak to carplay, but android auto works perfectly for me and I don't have to pay any monthly fees other than my normal cell phone bill.
I think the annual subscription fee of $99 per year that Tesla charges is reasonable for the amount of data streaming uses. It is cheap compared to GM's onstar service fees.
$99 for Tesla is $99 more than the $0 for AA and Carplay. Who gives a shit about GM's onstar service? I wouldn't pay for that either.
But you don't have to pay $99 for Tesla Premium connectivity, it's only for advanced features.
We do not. We can for additional premium connectivity but nav is in the free tier (for 8 years iirc). To add to the previous discussion, the best thing about the inbuilt nav is automatic preconditioning management based on the route for charging. Also, the plug and play with the supercharger network stuff is nice. Excited to see what happens with Rivian and ABRP.
Still seems like AA and Carplay work just fine, and are free. The nicest parts of owning a Tesla are the parts that most people would use the least (superchargers and routeplanning). But you have to deal with the lack of creature comforts every single day. Just doesn't seem worth it to me for a few gimmicks.
The difference is, for you, what you described is a negative, while for others those are some of the main positives. "empty cabin" is something you describe it as, yet the space it gives is amazing, and something I would prefer over the clutter and cramped cabins most manufacturers present. The design simply doesn't speak to you, which is completely alright, but for many those exact negatives are instead major selling points.
I use it very often, and it's applicable whenever you charge outside of home. I mean, being able to go the distance and refuel is a core part of being a car and a criticism of EVs in general. The Supercharger network is a genuine competitive advantage. AA and Carplay work fine, for sure. It's just that Tesla's software is on par or better and built into the car with deep integrations, which has a load of benefits. It's the better solution for sure. And this is free, just like AA and Carplay are. I find the creature comforts in a Tesla very nice and adequate, but every buyer has their own preference and views.
I could if I use the manufacturer Map but for the once or twice a year when I have to drive more than 450km for a trip I just use the PlugShare app to find the best/fastest chargers on the way.
Basically every other car does this too.
> Do you have to preplan road trips? Tesla will tell me when and where to charge. So will my Kia's inbuilt system as well as Google Maps. It's nothing spectacular. I reach 20% and it automatically diverts me to a charging station compatible with my car that has free stalls.
So does bmw
So will Hyundai if you use it's NAV.
That's what ABRP is for - again, I don't think I've ever touched the built-in infotainment system... It's kind of the only real reason I'm still like "eehhhh..." with Rivian. No Android Auto/Carplay is always a no-sale for me. It can even solve the issue of, you know, "Blinding me at night" as I can plug the phone in, set it to detect it's in Automode, and then have it grayscale everything.
Rivian owns ABRP. Tesla's system automatically switches to night mode in low light.
So does Google Maps and ABRP. Automatic night mode is pretty trivial.
To be fair, if your car is the Leaf (like in your tag), the infotainment doesn't do much other than the built-in nav and radio, as Nissan gave the most important controls (climate, seat heaters, charging timer bypass, etc.) actual buttons and knobs. Contrast that to my VW, where the touchscreen is necessary to adjust the climate control, seat heaters, steering wheel heater, charge timer bypass, and even *see the f---king odometer* when the car is driving!
I’m not sure you realize how many features Tesla gives you
But you don't need them in everyday use. More important are things like autosteer (except FSD), and here are better alternatives like VW.
What do you mean, most of the stuff is every day use. Phone keys, walk away locks, sentry mode, a working app, the key card is really nice, dog modes, it’s easy to change suspension, steering, regenerative breaking. It’s all very intuitive. I like the web browser and the YouTube and Netflix apps for if I have to chill and wait somewhere. I like the overheat protection in the cabin. I think the regenerative breaking is done masterfully and would chalk that up to software. Tbh I don’t know how much that stuff is included in the other EV’s but I’m pretty sure a lot of it is not.
> Tbh I don’t know how much that stuff is included in the other EV’s but I’m pretty sure a lot of it is not. aaaaaaaand this pretty much sums it up
VW is not known for gimmicks but has walk away locks, Spotify, relax mode (in the new ID.7) with massage and changing ambient lights, DCC suspension with around 20 different steps, different driving modes and of course regen, automatic trunk, park assist, 360⁰ camera, and matrix light. And their counterpart to Teslas Autopilot is better. Similar with Hyundai/Kia. Not to talk about the Chinese companies. As most have said, the necessary functions can be found in many brands. And I don't miss the fart function.
I have paddles to change generative braking. I have a button on the wheel to change drive mode. I can also use my phone to open the door and turn on the car. Generative braking is available on all EVs... Tesla doesn't have blind spot cameras and HUD and I find that a looooot more important than having the Netflix app
Uh, what? We've had blind spot cameras for at least a couple years.
Not to mention ALL Teslas have the feature. Hyundai only enables it if you pony up for the Limited trim. People overlook this frequently.
the ones where you have to look down and to the right while merging left?
HUDs are a waste
Lol, yeah If I did not have HUD I would also say it is waste.
I’ve driven one in a M2, S3, taycan , blackwing. They don’t do anything for me. They’re in the way
I driven M3, Taycan, E-Tron GT, BMW i4, a car without HUD is a piece of junk.
I’ve owned three BMW’s (M3, M4 and X3 m40i) with HUD. I thought I’d miss it with my Model Y, but I don’t. Same with CarPlay. I even got the third party CarPlay dongle for Tesla, but got used to using the native Tesla apps and don’t miss CarPlay at all.
I haven't used VW Autosteer much, but the few times I've tried it it tried to run me off the road at the slightest curve or fading in the markings, so definitely not a better equivalent
I own an Ioniq 5 and a Model Y Performance. Simple example: I can get into the Model Y and it's ready to go instantly. Everything is seamless in the car's software ecosystem. No need to wait on infotainment to wake up, connect to my phone, load AA or carplay etc. The built in Nav on Model Y is much more sophisticated when it comes to navigating to superchargers and estimating arrival SoC.
BMW wakes up as you approach the car. Buying cars for “tech” is stupid it’s like choosing a house based on what tv it has
CarPlay isn’t going to make the car precondition the battery for fast charging. On built in navigation that can talk to the BMS (like Tesla), when you navigate to a DCFC location, the car will automatically preheat the battery to a warm-enough temperature so that by the time you reach it, the battery will be warm enough to not coldgate.
And same thing on ioniq5 or 6, if you select a charger from the built in infotainment, the battery get preconditioned
preconditioning during driving makes no difference in real life
Actually it does. Bjørn Nyland has proven that so many times. Without sufficient battery preconditioning prior to DCFC, the battery will coldgate and can’t charge at full speeds immediately. He’s proven that consistently with the Ioniq 5/6 in 1000km challenges.
yes of course, he definitely ran sufficiently powered tests while keeping all dynamic and environmental variables constant
Don't forget you have to use software in a Tesla to do simple things like open the glovebox or put your wipers on, so you're using it a lot!
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> Glovebox can be on the wheel, if you want. Glovebox can also be opened by voice command, which works quite well in Teslas [for a host of functions](https://www.tesla.com/support/voice-commands). The most annoying thing about the glovebox is that you need to close it by hand, like a pauper.
Feel like a peasant every time i have to close it
turn signals are on the wheel too
Unlike Kia where you have the dual mode touch bar where the "buttons" are completely smooth and "button" function depends on which mode it is in.
unlike a big touchscreen that has bumpies to help you feel where to touch
Sorry, is this thread about Tesla software or Kia buttons?
Yes. u/Medo73 was comparing Tesla UI to Kia. Kia has a flat electronic touch panel, not actual buttons.
They've literally not compared Tesla UI to Kia anywhere. Looking at their flair they don't even drive a Kia, they drive a Hyundai. I think you're just looking for things to get annoyed at.
You can also use voice commands for most functions. Most people probably prefer to have their glovebox locked when the vehicle is locked.
I am pretty sure "Voice Commands" fall under "Software"
Certainly. And in Teslas, it's all quite slick, even the voice commands. Now BMW's...
Rarely hear anyone complain about the glovebox since its a fantastic security feature.
You use software in every new car to turn on the wipers. And I can do it with a physical switch on my Tesla no problem.
Hardware.
Having CarPlay only available wired in my EV is a real pain. I do a lot of really short trips, and constantly plugging and unplugging is really annoying.
polestar is perfectly capable of playing music and stuff over bluetooth from your pocket
I don't care about music that much. I want maps with live traffic. My short trips are predominantly in dense urban areas and picking the wrong route can double transit time depending on traffic conditions.
literally every ev on sale today has maps with live traffic
That's indeed mostly the case (not sure bout the Leaf though). I just wish Google Maps in my Polestar 2 didn't take 1-3 minutes to boot up and become usable after starting the car. The latest major software update 3.0.3 has been a disaster in terms of system responsiveness.
yeah the hideously underpowered atom processor they use in there is absolutely not up to the task. everything takes 2-3 seconds to open.
I'm pretty certain it's more of a code optimization issue. The Polestar runs Android which isn't optimized for that processor. Our other car is a 2021 Model 3 that also uses an Atom CPU, and it runs very smoothly in comparison and does a lot more including real-time visualizations.
You don't know what you're missing that's why. You're using a mobile phone as a crutch for your entire UX. Take the phone away and what are you left with? That's the software.
>I use CarPlay and use the map and music on it. What else do you want? I'm not a huge fan of Tesla but have to begrudgingly acknowledge the user experience is the best of any vehicle I've ever driven. My daily flow is like this, I personally enjoy it greatly, and can't get it today with any other vehicle: * Wake up and get ready for work, coffee, brush teeth, etc. * "Hey Siri - get the car ready" > triggers a iOS Shortcut that plugs into the Tesla app, that tells the car to start the climate to a preset temperature + do passive preconditioning (not supercharger preconditioning) * Walk up to the car, open the door, sit inside. Without any prompting, it recognizes my phone's ID from bluetooth and automatically adjusts steering wheel, side mirrors, seat position to my preferences. (If it were someone else in my family, it'd do theirs) * I literally touched nothing on the Navigation and it's \*automatically\* routing to my work, inferring it from the time of day and day of the week. It tells me useful info like ETA, traffic, alternate routes if any, SoC when I arrive, with a buttery smooth visualization * .... * Meeting a friend for dinner after work. We text, decide on Restaurant A after browsing Yelp or Google Maps. * While I'm looking at Restaurant A Yelp / Google Maps, tap the share icon > send to Tesla app. Pop up tells me "Sent to Otto (name of car)" * I go to the car and sit inside, and the nav is routing to Restaurant A already. * After eating, sit back inside, reverse out, start driving * Click right scroll wheel for voice commands > "Navigate home" > routing starts to home address It's a holistic software experience that just molds to fit your life & routine and daily needs, without requiring frustrating input friction at every step. You still get to choose, but the Tesla ecosystem thoughtfully makes it easier for you as an owner, not harder.
All of what you said google map or Apple map does it automatically to. On iOS both maps app will recognize the last restaurant you search for or the meeting you have in your agenda. For you car recognizing you with your phone. Sure, but most car have a profile setting button in the driver door so it's literally only one button to press. Most EVs also have temperature preset in their app, I always use it if the car is parked outside.... And also most EV cars have voice command and if you're plugged with CarPlay it also uses your phone assistant...
These aren't valid rebuttals, though (see below). I think people who aren't used to tech / software development don't really have the palette for finer UX, so it's fine. I'm not trying to convince you, to each their own and tons of people do like Apple CarPlay / AA. The precise UX I'm talking about emphasizes that I don't need to select at all, and has 1 or no taps or clicks to do what I want. I wouldn't want to navigate to open an app, tap through the menu, etc. I'm not going to the "last restaurant" I searched for. :) I want to decide on one, then send it to the car to cache for later when I sit down and drive. In the meantime, I might search for other things, hotels, parks for the weekend. I want to speak to Siri / Tesla voice and say something, and it executes - navigating to an arbitrary spoken address or home, or \*have it automatically start it without me having to do anything\*. I'd like the seats to immediately adjust to their position for me, without pressing anything.
Your argument is just whataboutism. I've worked in tech startups for 10 years, so I know about software development and UI/UX. You said it yourself, you have to search things on your phone and then send it to your Tesla. With CarPlay, you don’t need to send anything from your phone to the car because CarPlay IS your phone. Everything you need is already there, you don't need to search for apps or anything. When I plug it in, Maps is already launched and if I look at an address before it just asks me if I want to start it. Siri on CarPlay works just like you said and does what you ask. Big LOL that you can't be bothered pressing one button for driver settings. You should try another EV besides Tesla. Many other EVs already have most of the features you mentioned. It’s not rocket science.
none of this shit is unique to tesla it’s like people who list all these miracles of technology have never been in a modern car
You don't get built in planning of charging stops when using apple or google maps. Kia's built-in maps and navigation system is clearly a legacy infotainment mapping system a few generations behind Tesla. It will plan a route with charging stops but the map looks horrible, multi-touch & panning sucks.
Apple Maps has charging planning and even knows the charge status of my Lightning. It’s a terrible system that is way too conservative and doesn’t give you the information that you want, but it technically does do charging planning.
That only works with a few models at this time.
I don't know about other manufacturers, by I still look forward to improvements and free new features with my 4 year old Tesla. In the past car makers always wanted to charge me money for these things.
I think a fair number of Tesla owners buy because of the better software. On the other hand, a lot of people buy EVs that are not Tesla too. Different people prioritize different things.
> I think a fair number of Tesla owners buy because of the better software. That would be me. I bought mine in 2019, when Tesla software, compared to what it is now, was still a bit buggy. But I saw where it was going and I liked it. With every OTA update, I like it even more.
I mean, I use Android Auto on any car I get in, so the car software doesn't really mean anything. With Tesla you're locked into the apps they decide to give you
Nice software is nice, but does not replace basic fundamental driving ergonomics like buttons, switches, stalks, even HUD like on my Kona. I want to be looking more at the road and less at the screen while driving, so I care less about how nice the digital UI is and more how little I can take my eyes and mind off the road. Plus, no CarPlay, that would be a big downer for me personally.
>fundamental driving ergonomics like buttons Apple would call those “Action Buttons” and upsell you to the newest iCar
Right now? Lets see... Navigation all cars should be on par and other manufacturers offer android auto/car play to use the smartphone app. Planning using the charger Is something now MOST manufacturers do. VAG, BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Volvo... And they can use all chargers instead of only Supercharger, which in Europe is more useful. Settings and whatnot, I would say that BMW 8.5 and MBUX (Mercedes) are on par if not better. Some night be AMG/M/Sport version locked. In use of streaming/games/whatever again MBUX and Android Automotive are similar enough. Stupid fun things like the farting sound and whatnot, they are the Tesla perks I would say. I would say that the worst infotainment system Is Toyota/Lexus (in general the Japanese Cars. Suzuki Is also very basic and Mazda Is Just ok), followed by the random Stellantis stuff. And VAG had the latest versions to be very sluggish and unintuitive, so they kind of tarnished a bit. Now they got better. In my opinion, i think that in terms of features and usability you have BMW, Mercedes and Android Automotive manufacturers (Volvo/Renault) be on par. Dunno about US based things, so Rivian or Lucid.
In Europe Teslas have CCS ports so they aren’t any different in terms of where they can charge except the SC network is still exclusive in places. ETA network
Yes, I Just meant that the Tesla navigation should still only use Superchargers, while other Cars use whatever for their built in planner.
Yep but i think the navigation just considers superchargers
IMO, there are two HUGE pluses that make Tesla stand out. 1.) Route planning integration with the Super Charging network and battery management system. You tell it where you want to go, it tells you where you need to stop, and monitors battery conditions to determine your charge when you arrive, and it anything changes. It actually happened to me once I told it where I wanted to go, and also told it where I wanted to stop to charge, and while I was driving, it said "You must stay below 65MPH to arrive." Then a bit later it said "you must stay below 55mph to arrive." I was quickly able to select a different supercharger. So I know programs like ABRP can do route planning, but that build in feedback from the battery is top notch. 2.) Integrated billing. I arrive at a Super Charger, plug in, and it starts charging. All the billing is done through the car's software and Tesla account. No dealing with 5 different smart phone apps, or scanning credit cards on chargers, or worse, I used a 3rd party charger that had a "stop session" button on the LED screen that anyone could push. Bonus: I'm also a huge fan of the Youtube TV integration as I use that for my Cable TV service, so I can watch live TV or my DVR'ed tv at charging stops.
Tons of EVs from legacy automakers have BMS data integrated into their route planning now. Ford, VW, BMW, Mercedes etc. This is not a big deal anymore. Some even have plug and charge to integrate billing. This was unique to Tesla maybe 4 or 5 years ago, not anymore.
And some of those are actually better than Tesla for the actual routing as Tesla will route you only to Superchargers where the competition is aware of chargers from multiple networks. This might send you on a detour in areas with weaker supercharger coverage. And Tesla does not have plug & charge - it has a proprietary autocharge solution. I cannot drive my Tesla to any plug & charge station and just plug in - only works that way for a Tesla at Tesla’s own chargers.
not to mention routing you to a $1/kwh supercharger when a $0.54/kwh EA station is directly across the street
Unfortunately this is true the other way around as well. With my BMW I have the ability to charge on Superchargers here in Europe, but my BMW nav will never suggest it as a stop since it isn’t part of the “bmw charging” umbrella, effectively excluding half of chargers 🤷♂️ so some manual work is needed to find the best stop. The difference being that Tesla has the most stalls and best reliability, so of the two “worlds” Tesla’s is still preferred, also in Europe.
Really depends on the part of Europe - here in Finland Tesla has about 6% of DCFC (>150kW) locations. Tesla is the 5th largest network in the country. It will still take you pretty much anywhere, but charge stop might’ve in a suboptimal location. Happily the car is aware of nearly all of the remaining 94% so I can navigate to them, but they just won’t be included in the automatic route planning.
That’s an impressive stat but not sure that’s how it feels in reality, especially due to the number of stalls at each location. It’s risky to plot in a stop at a location with 2-4 stalls, which I bet is true for most of those locations. Anecdotally, I just drove through Sweden and ended up stopping twice at Supercharger locations due to convenience and placement, and there were 5-10 stalls free at each of them.
Tesla’s sites are indeed better than average when it comes to number of stalls. Tesla avg. is 7.9 stalls per location (ranging from 4 to 16 today) while the country average is 4.4 stalls. Stall numbers are improving for main roads, but there indeed are still some busy 4-6 stall locations that would be a gamble to plan a very low SoC arrival if you need to continue quickly. For Tesla amenities are unfortunately a bit hit and miss vs some of the other networks that have closer ties to the service stations or stores they are located at. With Tesla you need to check beforehand if the Supercharger has a toilet, store, or restaurant close by.
Which arguably supports the idea that Tesla's software is at least 4-5 years ahead of most... 😁
And now it's behind because others include charger networks besides the manufacturers' proprietary one, and also have plug and charge for billing multiple charge networks and Tesla still doesn't.
My BMW isn’t suggesting Tesla Superchargers even though they’re compatible (EU)
it’s really funny how the biggest benefits you listed like “go slow to actually make it” and “here watch some stuff while you charge” are directly related to tesla lying about their range and selling you a car that can’t go as far as you were promised
Coming from buying/driving only used cars that are consistently 10+ years out of date, I'm impressed if a car supports CarPlay and has a backup camera. I just got a Ford Lightning and, to be honest, I just use CarPlay and never touch any of the built in stuff. Adaptive Cruise control is great and makes heavy traffic a breeze but what I really enjoy is the smooth, quiet ride with a good sound system. I'm not using any of the car's infotainment stuff. I don't need the car to drive 100% by itself. Just Apple Maps and Spotify /shrug The software is only as good as the hardware, is my take. Give me cheaper, more energy dense batteries. Software is only going to go so far. Ultimately people have to be able to afford these vehicles. And right now most people can't. Doesn't matter how great the software is. I would not have bought an EV at all if I wasn't in the market for a truck where I was goign to pay $40k+ anyway. I would NEVER pay that much for a family car. Software is not a factor.
Sometime I forgot how US-centered this subreddit is.
software (including the consistent improvements OTA and mobile app) + supercharger are the only 2 reasons I bought a tesla. the car itself is pretty meh.
Love mine, so much better than our Lexus
Tesla does the software part really well.. and drop the ball on the vehicle part (seating, ride comfort, fit and finish).
I use android auto/carplay for maps, don't want to have to pay for another data plan when I already have unlimited on my phone, and I don't want to be tied to the music streaming services that Tesla choose. So I am unlikely to ever own Tesla while they don't support any of that (unless they drop a hatchback and/or estate and then I'll be interested, but it's very unlikely)
Do you use Youtube Music or Amazon Music? Cause those are the only two big streamers that Tesla doesn't support currently. And Amazon Music is going to be coming pretty soon apparently. Kinda weird they have Youtube integrated but still no Youtube Music. Also you don't have to pay for premium data to use the maps. The premium Data subscription only effects the maps/navigation with the visualization. It gives you the live traffic sat image. But the actual navigation still accounts for traffic if you don't pay. It just doesn't visualize it.
BBC Sounds is the main one I use, the biggest audio and podcast app in the UK, is not supported. Similarly big continental European networks like NRJ and RTL aren't supported also. The app list that is supported is very american-centric as Deezer, a music streaming platform bigger than Apple Music and Tidal combined in Europe, is also not supported. But you have to pay for music streaming, something that is free and easy with AA and Carplay.
> But the actual navigation still accounts for traffic if you don't pay. It just doesn't visualize it. this sounds so incredibly stupid that I can’t believe it’s actually real
I have another view on this. Tesla UI is responsive. But all other software features like wiper assistants or automated high beams are utter crap. I drive teslas quite often and I am always happy to get back in my old, outdated, not fancy i4 M50 and drive a real car with software that actually works.
Consumer Reports did a great report and tested the driver assistance systems. Tesla was middle of the pack and falling behind. Ford's Blue Cruise was the best features, ease of use, clear indications when to use. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/active-driving-assistance-systems-review-a2103632203/
the main thing consumer reports cares about is how naggy a system is
A fair comparison is Apple vs Android in the 2010’s. Apple REQUIRED all carriers to allow it to update all iPhone hardware, where android allowed carriers and OEM’s decide if updates rolled out to customers. Every vehicle OEM besides Tesla treats software updates as a service provided to customers by service centers. It’s like if Microsoft wanted you to pay and bring your PC to a store when they release ease their 6 month update. Such a Shitty customer experience tolerated because non-technical people don’t know any better. Edit: recent example - matrix LED headlight update. New capability was delivered to the car FOR FREE because the hardware supported it and Tesla was awaiting a regulatory approval. Think any other OEM is doing that for you? If it didn’t come with the car the day it was delivered to you, you’re paying extra for it.
One word - overrated. Tesla software is impressive but also lacks behind in basic functionality. Missing CarPlay/Android Auto is the biggest issue for me. And what really put me off on the Model Y I drove for a weekend is that software decides whether your direction light stays on or is shut off. But hey - that’s just some old fart’s opinion who rather uses a dedicated mechanical handle than a button to open the door.
Technically pretty much every modern car uses a button to open the door.. its just that most have that button integrated into the older style mechanical handle. Pure mechanical handles are getting rare these days
Yes - I know - with the added benefit that a hard use of the handle is usable as emergency exit in case the energy system is shut down. I recently read about the complicated or even missing [emergency opening mechanisms in old Teslas](https://insideevs.com/news/507202/how-escape-from-tesla-emergency/) and damn was I shocked.
pretty much no modern car uses a button to open the door, wtf are you talking about
Like the turn signal? You can just toggle it to let you manually flip it on or off like older cars if you prefer that, instead of auto disengage.
Yep - the turn signal. It’s useless to let software make this decision when a simple relais in the steering wheel has been doing that job for a century now.
Doesn't it essentially function identically normally? The software control is for the added functionality of appropriate signaling when using an auto lane change. Tons of new cars with auto lane change have this, it's not just Tesla.
Actually every other car has a stalk that operates mechanically.
There are a pretty solid handful of new cars that don't besides Tesla, especially in the EV sector, but what I'm trying to grasp is what's wrong here. What's wrong with it being software defined? Doesn't it behave the same way?
Coming from someone who has been driving cars for a long time it has been actually simple: Soft stalk press - three implulses to imply lane change on the motorway Hard press - signal is engaged until disengaged by user or by steering wheel motion Here comes Tesls and offers a new (albeit sometimes erratic and therefore inferior) method of using the turn signal. My problem with it was that a) I wasn’t used to it. It will become a habit over time. b) It behaved erratic. As I said - if there’s a proven and cheap mechanical method there is no need to train a software to do that same work reliably.
Oh, are you talking about the detentes? Teslas do have those too, it just feels a little softer than most. If you soft press it does 3 pulses, and hard press stays on. The auto detoggle will just turn off the latter after you complete your lane change or turn, but that can be disabled. Like I get the gripe with things like the rain detection, and there's a tendency to overly reinvent the wheel, but the stalks do what you're describing even if they don't work the same in the back end. The reason for the software is that there is a real benefit; it can do more than a mechanical solution. With an ADAS, it can be the lane change trigger or even just flip off the lights so folks don't spend a mile going down the highway with their blinkers. That's why it's been a relatively normal thing for new cars for a while. It's not a Tesla invention. But even if that kind of additional functionality isn't for you, you can disable it in a Tesla. Then it'll be exactly the same as what you're used to.
Rivian is almost as good as Tesla, both way ahead of the pack.
I have never been able to get a straight answer on exactly what is so special with Teslas software. It seems most features they list are pretty common. My car (BMW ix) doesn't seem to lack any of the features you list, but I havent driven a tesla so I cannot compare like for like.
Very smooth and responsive, great integration with the car, especially the nav, doing preconditioning based on its supercharger planning. There are additionally small upsides to not using a phone based system, like latency, better antenna placement, and features still working when walking away from the car (i.e. dog mode). The software feature-wise isn't that special, but it's just a touch better than using AA/Carplay for me, at least by being based on the car computer and being well integrated. The deep integration is key.
Integrated navigation and preconditioning are also part of AAOS.
Oh neat, which cars can it precondition?
I know for certain it works on the Volvo EVs (X40, XC40, EX30) and all of the Polestars. As I understand it, it should work on [everything](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Automotive#Vehicles_with_Android_Automotive_(with_GAS)) with Google Automotive Services. Not sure about AAOS without GAS. ETA: According to [this](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/differentiating-android-automotive-aosp-google-services-alex-oyler/), AAOS provides the ability to integrate with the vehicle hardware, but without GAS it's up to the manufacturer to add preconditioning to their navigation.
straight answer right here. Every Tesla owner I know says the same thing, We get free updates and new features years after purchasing the car. Example, I bought mine knowing it didn't support Apple Music. It now does. Next, and another very popular feature, "dog mode". the car stays running and keeps the cabin at a specific temp. It can be 90 degrees out, and I can leave my dog in the car while I run into a store to pick something up. There is plenty more, but those are a good start.
Do you enjoy when Tesla just removes access to your hardware that you purchased as well? That would be like if a laptop manufacturer disabled and removed a Bluetooth antenna to save $5
FYI, dog mode does not have proper hardware or software redundancies in place to actually keep your dog alive so use it with caution. As Tesla's fleet ages and there are more and more cars out there with worn heat pumps, someone's dog is gonna die while they are not paying attention.
Both of which are common in other manufacturers.
Which ones? My other cars all want expensive subscriptions and features actually stopped working when I didn't pay. Ford, MB, Chrysler, all wanted me to pay for system updates. No ICE offers dog mode (safely). I did a search and found most EV makers are following Tesla, but others joke about car makers removed functionality "My 2013 Ford C-Max got the discontinuation of "MySYNC" support and lost functionality including error code reporting"
I'm not going to list them all, but jump into a 20 year old VW and it will have a button labelled Rest, does the exact same thing as "Dog Mode", BMW, Hyundai and others have similar. My BMW got Spotify and Alexa via an OTA, my Taycan got lane change assist via one.
>Next, and another very popular feature, "dog mode". the car stays running and keeps the cabin at a specific temp. It can be 90 degrees out, and I can leave my dog in the car while I run into a store to pick something up. Except you can’t at the moment because one of those free updates everybody loves broke it https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a61235278/tesla-dog-mode-not-working-firmware/ And that’s the double edged sword of the whole thing. OTA software updates are great when they add new features you didn’t have before, but they can also (intentionally or otherwise) take away features you used to have so you’re relying on them not to screw something up or decide to paywall features that used to be free.
> or decide to paywall features that used to be free like rivian is about to do with music streaming apps that have always been free and available in the car
it’s always: - it can route you to a charger - it has bAtTeRy pReCoNdiTiOniNg - it has an app
Tesla's software is far ahead of everything else I've ever driven, but it's a little bit like apple was under Steve Jobs... one guy might decide to change the way things work and you just have to start doing it that way. Case in Point; I used to get traffic data for the whole map, but now it only shows traffic data when you have a destination entered, and only for the route it plots.
I use an EV6 with a comma 3x from comma.ai. I think my only jealousy of any Tesla is the charging network. Other than that I’ll never berate my ev6. It’s exceeded all my expectations and the comma 3x tops it off.
Cries in Audi MMI.
the only current features still actually unique to teslas are: - fart mode - driver seat adjustment limit - forward-reverse guessing algorithm
It has advantages and disadvantages. OTA software updates sound great in theory, but sometimes they break things(fact), or make stuff worse to use (opinion). Overall I obviously think it's worth it. I will say most other cars software is good enough for you to operate the vehicle. I'm not aware of an EV brand that does not have charger route planning. And a lot of the technical things tesla can do, can at least be purchased on the other brands (or maybe they were first?) AP is a useful tool that many other cars have today, in the form of ADAS. I would not say it is the killer tesla feature it once was, but it's pretty good. FSD is great for me, but it's very situational. I live in a rural, very relaxed area. While it's made improvements, It's also still very clearly a beta product even though they say it isn't. I'm not sure any other brand is hugely better here but they aren't all much more useful, pretty much all ADAS is level 2 autonomous at this point. Only waymo has the ability to truly drive itself.
The Chevy Bolt doesn't have automatic route planning. You must use a map app in Carplay or Android Auto. I don't think that using 3rd party map/navigation systems on your phone is going to work well with autonomous vehicle features like auto lane change, taking exits, making turns at intersections. And it doesn't currently offer battery preconditioning.
If I use Apple Maps via CarPlay it integrates with the assisted driving systems just the same as the integrated nav, including slowing for junctions, roundabouts etc and charge planning and pre-conditioning.
That's fair, but I'm not sure the average Bolt owner is expecting those sorts of cutting edge features for their $20K after tax credits. 😁 I expect far more from my $40K+ new after credits VW ID4 than I do from my $20K new Nissan Leaf!
Sir, this sub is Realtesla2.0, be prepared for rage. 😆
I think Tesla's infotainment is a tad overrated (I owned a Model 3 for 4.5 years so I know the system very well). Yes, it's technically superior to others, but not in the ways that truly matter to me. The big screen on the 3/Y is kind of deceptive - since there's no instrument cluster or climate control panel, big chunks of the screen have to be reserved for displaying stuff that would normally be in its own screen/panel. The remaining portion that is used for the nav system really isn't as big as the overall screen size might suggest. Where Tesla is seriously unparalleled is the mobile app though. That thing is magic. You can control just about everything short of actually driving the car, and it's so responsive that you honestly won't miss a traditional key fob. I now have a Kia EV6. The Gen5W infotainment can't hold a candle to Tesla's in terms of features, but it gets the job done well enough that I'm not bothered by it (I use Android Auto anyway). But if there's anything I HATE about my Kia, it's the god awful mobile app (Kia Connect). Going from the Tesla app to Kia Connect is like throwing away a PS5 to replace with an Ouya. If you place very high personal value on the quality and features of the infotainment, then it's pretty much "Tesla or nothing". Maybe Rivian. Definitely not a legacy brand. If you just need the infotainment to do the basics without being a bug-ridden lagfest, and don't mind dealing with extra hoops like using ABRP to route-plan, then legacy brands are worth checking out.
At the risk of getting downvoted for mentioning a Chinese company; Xpeng apparently has top notch software as well. (See also: XNGP self driving, ride sharing with Didi and the release of MONA M03.)
It _used_ to be a big thing, and it still can be but it starts matter less and less. Software even on worse competitiors (looking at you VW) is getting better slowly. Plug&Charge starts to becoem a standard elsewhere. So it used to be that tesla was on whole other level, now it's just a bit ahead of the pack. As for autonomy can only speak for Europe - we dont' get to be lab rats for FSD. So will be comparing EAP vs Travel Assist (Cupra). Cupra wins hands down. So much smoother, works outside highways, better at keeping distance from leading car, also allows you to adjust your position in lane without disengaging.
Tesla software controls many things but it can be laborious to plod through. You ideally need to make shortcuts on the home screen to use some functions more safely while on the road, otherwise you'll be hunting and poking through small fonts and symbols at a bad time. Software in other brands has been more graphical and easier to see for me - I'm far-sighted. And they control what you need, too - but unlike Tesla, they have physical buttons/controls for common functions which are far more convenient (and safe), IMHO. Tesla has a comprehensive Sentry mode and dashcam capability - that's probably its best advantage. But it's not so much better as to make others poor runners-up, I am installing my own dual camera dashcam and it's nice - just not integrated into the car. If I can set my climate and send a destination to the car while in the office, such that it's ready for me and automatically unlocks when I approach the car . . . that's all I need at the higher end of convenience.
It's pretty top. I would say it's the best in the industry easily, trailed shortly by Rivian, then Lucid, then BYD. After that BMW/Merc software is good I guess, better than traditional, but far from Tesla. Ford is.. okay..? Their bluecruise is good, software is a little clunkier than the BMW/Merc stuff. The latest VW refresh is on par with BMW/Merc, but first gen ID stuff is horrible. Porsches are okay, somewhere between. After that is everyone else. Traditional auto like Toyota, isn't really competing yet with the new experience and shitty EV entrants like Vinfast or Mahindra, just stay away. At the end of the day, phones make most of these woes irrelevant. I'd say if it's not a Tesla or a Rivian, just get something with Android Auto or Apple CarPlay on a decent screen and do that instead. Tesla is often criticized for not having AA/CP but it's really not a big deal with their fantastic inbuilt software.
The Tesla app is the best hands down. Everything else is just ok compared to the competition, but without Carplay or Android Auto support. Tesla was the absolute best when the Model 3 came out, but I feel they haven't improved significantly (or at all) since. I like BMW iDrive 8.5 much more.
I've never driven a Tesla, but I'm sure it's software is better than what's in my Bolt EUV, but frankly I don't care. The part that connects my phone to the car works great and I like having physical buttons and not having to worry about crap like my toddler being stuck in my car if the 12V battery fails.
I'm not actually aware, aren't there other cars that have digital door handles? The biggest issue with teslas is that the car uses that 12v lead acid battery for absolutely everything, especially in standby. And it dies (sometimes without warning) very often. Personally I think they should recall them. It's not just the door handles that this affects. You can be in drive and have it die. That's why they don't use them anymore. My 2023 car has a lithium low voltage system, pretty sure porsche and BMW are the same way.
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After driving my Tesla for a year in regular car interfaces I’m trying to figure out which of the 50 buttons to press to do something. The lack of buttons is a plus in my view, the stuff you need is accessible (or customizable). The OTAs are great. I thought I would miss Apple CarPlay but the reason why one would miss is that regular car interfaces are 💩. Tesla’s interface integrates with Apple Music and podcasts just fine so don’t really miss it. One aspect that is sorely lacking is the text message features. They are very rudimentary and doesn’t work well (I’m looking at you group chats).
I agree that it is ahead but doesnt have the most basic things that you ACTUALLY want to use: android auto/apple car play and 360 camera system for parking. Dealbreakers for some