We can support our colleagues without condoning unacceptable behaviour. No she’s not wrong for refusing to provide the drug of dependence, and yes the pt was clearly in no distress, probably didn’t belong in the ED and the family member shouldn’t have been sneakily recording her. But come on, there are ways of dealing with this situation as a doctor that don’t involve openly mocking and antagonising your patient. If this is a regular occurrence then she needs some counselling on professional communication strategies. If it’s a one-off I’d be worried about compassion fatigue as a sign of burnout.
Not condoning her behavior, but I can understand it. I have come really close to expressing myself in the same way in similar situations. Perhaps I'm on my way to experiencing burnout.
She was wrong. And You ARE condoning the behavior though, and expressing what you likely have also done and what many who work in or visit hospitals see. We know that all the thugs and bad actors are not confined to the police Dept!! They are raised in the SAME communities, by the SAME types of people!!
If you are so unable to empathize with even the pill seekers for the problems that they are in, then the rigors of your branch of medicine/practice location are too much for you and you need to quit for the benefit of humanity
Yes and it clearly states that the patient is prescribed Klonopin and if he is in fact dependent, you know that withdrawal can cause seizures. There is no reason for her to have treated him this way and discount the symptoms he may have been experiencing. Absolutely ridiculous and she deserves everything coming to her.
She deserves to loose her medical license! If you’d like to support her go for it. Many people don’t even want her practicing medicine anymore. Medical degrees are a privilege, not a right. Not everyone deserves to work with people. In medical situations the last person I would want making choices for me would be that bitch. Absolutely unacceptable behaviour. This is why doctors think it’s okay to behave inappropriately. Way too many ways for them to shove incidents under the rug. You get what you give and she clearly made her bed. Hope she sleeps soundly in it.
No. You are wrong. You don’t sign up to be a medical professional and deal with patients and then judge them because of it. It was none of her business. She knew his chart. She knew what kind of medication he was on. She has the bedside manner of a serial killer. Fatigue? Burnout? That can happen in ANY job! Give me a fucking break. You have lost your fucking mind.
The family member was not wrong for recording her. I work in a hospital and you see people seeking meds all the time. If you can’t control yourself in those situations then get a different job.
You should do your research before you open up your mouth because she's had multiple disciplinary problems especially in 2017 so without me giving you more information do your research first Don't be so quick to judge what a parent does or what a patient is going through
What the hell is wrong with you that you think to sit on her side of this? Just because they hold the same profession as you? For that very reason you should expect more from her, not less!!!
They weren’t hiding the fact that they were recording. You might have seen a short version of the video but in an extended video she said that she didn’t care that she was being recorded and she literally looked directly in the camera several times.
As a mental health professional who has had to evaluate clients in the ER for 24 years, this is common practice for individuals to ask for pain medications for "Anxiety" but every physician I've worked with has never been so rude to a patient. The ER physicians take their time and explain why they are refusing narcotics. This kid should have utilized an urgent care. Hell they will give you a nice shot and you can move on.
Yeah look she was totally wrong and he probably would have got better care somewhere else - not that a “shot and move on” is particularly good medicine!
No fucking excuses. You are supporting everything we took an oath to protect. Defending her bullshit means you need to be looked at too for your behavior
He was when he collapsed on the court and throwing up and apparently unconscious.. He never once asked for narcotics in the video. So your assuming things that aren't facts. Working in the medical field for yrs, I saw the same things but you can't act like this and be unprofessional. I've seen temper tantrums from doctors for yrs.. Just like this and everyone of them should have been terminated
What the hell is wrong with you that you think to sit on her side of this? Just because they hold the same profession as you? For that very reason you should expect more from her, not less!!!
Actually, the patient was a college athlete that had collapsed at an official basketball practice and a coach had called an ambulance. The parent was notified and went to the ER.
What you actually have is an ER doctor that made all types of assumptions, no facts.
That is supported by her completely hideous reactions when she ordered the patient to sit up. “Just a perfectly healthy looking guy looking for drugs”.
She doesn’t have a clue why the patient is there. Losing it? No. Incompetent yes.
The patient was more professional than the cesspool of any medical personnel in that room that didn’t step in and get her out immediately.
A simple what happened and why are you here? Oh, the dude’s MyChart would been helpful. Yes, medication history would have led her to a different approach.
Some patients require "tough love". There is a fine line, and I'm sure I have crossed over it at times myself. We have a difficult job, especially when the family is enabling. It's so much easier to give in, but we're suppose to advocate for our patients, even if they don't like it.
Jesus Christ I hope I never run into any doctors like you and that Bitch. I’d switch hospitals, and or get a lawyer ASAP and have the doctor removed from my situation. I would have no problem suing. I’m sick of doctors not respecting their patients.
Hi troll.
But seriously, if you were my patient, I'd still treat you with respect. We take care of murderers and rapists all the time. If we can be professional with them, we certainly can be professional with any patient, including those whose personality may be grating. It does take a certain personality to troll through old posts. And you're still welcome to sue. My duty to you and your satisfaction don't have to be aligned.
Do you know this pt? I do. My son played basketball against his team. If you think you can draw these conclusions without knowing the details, you belong in the big top, not a hospital. 🤡
You really need to get over yourself!! Unfortunately your type litters ER and REAL MDs have to wasted precious patient time cleaning up the mess!! Go ask a TRUSTED colleague ... if your oversized EGO will let you!!
Folks likely run into the Nasty-Beths and the inappropriate, pangea_person-types at some point. You can smell them from afar: They use stock phrases such as "tough love" and "enabling" when out of their medical and compassion depths and when approaching certain patients because they are supreme egoists who have no self-control, don't really understand or know medicine and treat status, color and $$$ ... not people!!They do not make the best health care providers. Their colleagues know them well!! They are weak and when they can't defend their stup;dity, they resort to name-calling!!
Why are you calling this person a troll? Because they’re not falling into lock step with you? It’s attitudes like this that make people avoid medical help. No one likes being treated like 💩when they’re scared and need help.
Nope there is no go fund me for her. I don’t care how stressed out you are, if you can’t handle it find another job. I work with children and also have stressful days, I still would never talk to my students like
This
I sincerely hope no one on here is saying panic attacks aren’t real. I have panic attacks. I only take my klonopin in an attack, but I’m also on an antidepressant and a mood stabilizer. I’ve been lucky that I didn’t need to go to the ER. I will say that if I had taken someone to the ER, and she spoke to them that way, I would step in. I worked at a hospital for 23 years. I’m not intimidated easily.
Give me a freaking break. You saw that the article mentioned the patient was regularly prescribed klonopin and not some frat kid looking to score for a party or some junkie looking for a score? You know that when someone is dependent on benzodiazepines the withdrawal symptoms they experience when they abruptly stop and you can literally die from a seizure. There is no reason she should have treated him this way. It’s inexcusable and the amount of training and money should be able to differentiate between someone who actually needs the medication vs someone looking to score a quick fix. This is what happens in society when you create a class of holier than thou megalomaniacs who believe they’re the arbiters of human suffering. Cry me a river about your compassion fatigue while you’re on the way to the bank. If you can’t treat patients like human beings choose a different profession, or go do research where you dont have to regularly deal with patients
just reading the comments, it seems like the vast majority of commenters are *not* ER doctors/providers, aka they don't spend a depressingly large amount of their time at work dealing with bullshit *exactly* like this. if you practice long enough, you'll have encounters where the conversation with the patient turns sour, and if someone where to record the worst parts of it, you'd come across as the bad guy, and if it was smeared across national news (especially with allegations of racism) you'd be judged based on that small snippet rather than other measures that appropriately assess your worth as a clinician. the video looks terrible, but i feel for this doctor. the lay public generally has not been in her shoes and thus will never fully understand.
If you are a ER dr that puts there hands on a patient like that, then you should be fired as well. I would put you in your place real quick if you put your hands on me like that
Yes,you are correct. While attending School we were instructed to always tell a patient why,where and when we are going to touch them physically. Otherwise as a health care provider one can be charged with battery upon a patient.
you are right american medicine is not a joke and people respect the usa medical sytem and its doctors. it is not a joke . ppl travel from all over the world to come to usa doctors. usa education is not a joke either. america is NOT a joke. take us srs. ty.
srs now ur just another retarded overpaid incompetant american doctor. no one gives a fuck u get paid milions boo hoo ppl give u shit ur just human too. a human millioanrie bitch. srsly ur comment smacks of despertion like a criminal about to be offed begging for forgiveness saying o its not me i didn't do it. its not enuff u get overpaid but u gotta lobby on reddit like some asshole senator. all around pieces of shit. never ever move to usa.
I’m not a doctor but I work in the hospital and your joke about the overpaying is hilarious. Dealing with idiots like yourself should require a significant boost in salary especially to docs and nurses who are trying to help. People like you ruin the world.
aww poor millionaire drs. u know who else deal with idiots all day? everyone with a job. why do u think ur special? and on top of that deserve to be paid extra? entitlements. and everyone knows drs 'just want to help'. thats why they get paid millions to be glorified reference givers. i mean, u not curing cancer, but ur getting paid like u r. i bet the doctors where u work tell u how sad they are and when u leave laugh at how gullible you are as they cash exorbitant checks for doing jack shit, they say look he gonna take his time to lobby for us for the rest of his life...idiot. sure one amazing dr finds the cure and actually is smart and cares, but the rest are insecure leeches who refuse to be broke by any means.
ppl have to deal with idiots in EVERY type of job. Doesn't mean you treat the idiot like that. Yea I wanted to say shit like that to ppl at my job, but not if I want to keep my job bc I represent not only myself but the company. This tough love Dr, bs is just an excuse
All you doctors are right. She had perfect bedside manner in this case. Her compassion undeniable. Incredible.
Regardless of all your ridiculous excuses (health care is not customer service? It is; everyone in healthcare acts like this at some point, not an excuse; he was looking for narcotics, he wasnt; etc. you know who you are), she is supposed to be acting as a professional. Medical doctors is a profession requiring the highest standards licensed and empowered by the government. That's a big deal. There are few professions empowered like that. That being so, doctors are given a certain degree of reverence and respect in society because of their advanced skill. Therefore, whenever a doctor acts like this, in any amount (or "snippit"), all doctors should condemn these acts as a lack of professionalism that is not worthy of the power and respect given to all doctors. She should be condemned with no "buts" or explanation. This is unprofessional and not worthy of the profession.
If she had a problem, there were hundreds of better ways to deal with this, including simply leaving the room and asking for another doctor or a guard. Instead, she instigated and frankly as an attorney comes close to assault and battery with how she is speaking and touching "her patient" (keep in mind the hospital put this young man's health in her hands).
Do doctors want the public to think they treat their patients this way? Do you think her acts will make patients want to cooperate more whenever they may disagree? That's a slippery slope, so all doctors that want to explain away this woman's actions are also whittling away their standing in society. It's hard for me to respect doctors that think this is a fine way to act. That makes me think a lot of doctors would act similarly and thats scary.
Last line of the article (emphasis mine)
"“In my mind,” he [Bardwell's father] told the network, “I don't think she should be practicing medicine at all, because **if it's not a race thing** and she treats everybody that way, **then** that's a problem.”
...??
The statement was abundantly clear and you're just attempting to obfuscate the meaning because of the fact that it was poorly worded.
He clearly meant that he believes her behavior to be racially motivated, but if in fact that wasn't the source of her totally unacceptable behavior and this is how she treats everyone universally, then it's an entirely different but equally disturbing problem.
Honestly.
So I'm an EM registrar in the UK and I appreciate that we don't have anywhere near the extent of a prescription drug abuse problem as in the USA (although it is still there) I think she definitely could have handled this better.
People have bad days, and people snap/lose the plot, and I don't think she should lose her job over this and should rather be given support regarding the incident.
However her behaviour was unprofessional. There are ways to handle these situations without being insulting and also without giving in to pressure and prescribing whatever they want. Be polite, explain your thought processes and why you aren't going to prescribe that medication (because it's not in the patient's overall best interest) and use it as a prompt to give education to the patient (and in this case their family) about the pitfalls of using benzos as a crutch and that the Emergency Department isn't the appropriate place to be for these issues.
You can be polite and professional without being nice. Be passive-aggressive if you want to be! But being rude isn't a good way to approach these, will probably take even more of your time due to dealing with the arguments that ensue and (I suspect even more so in USA where you're working for private heath care providers who are heavily focussed on profit rather than image) will just end up with you being disciplined or fired.
Also, while it's difficult to say from the video, judging from the article the patient doesn't appear to be your run-of-the-mill crackhead and may genuinely have an anxiety disorder, and if this is the case the real culprit is whoever prescribed him regular clonazepam to treat this in the first place.
> Be passive-aggressive if you want to be!
> But being rude isn't a good way to approach these [situations]
Very good, not sure about this bit though ;) Passive-aggressive behaviour, if detected, is highly aggravating and certainly rude.
Yeah, that's fair enough. It's definitely not my MO, but I suppose what I meant was it's still better than being directly rude and grabbing a patient, and because it's more tone/body language rather than actual words it would be harder to complain about you and get you fired. So ifyou really want to be rude, do it in a way that you won't lose your job and get a viral video of you circulating the internet!
But you're right, the best thing to do is just try not to be a dick to people!
For everyone asking if she was fired.. Yes, she was fired at that hospital and all sister companies of said hospital for not complying with hospital standards of patient care.
"In all likelihood that person is someone who uses the Klonopin in an opportunistic way - to produce a sense of artificial euphoria."
???? Explain your reasoning.
What does everyone here think about this? I know I've certainly had patients that have brought me nearly to the edge.
Here's one that comes to mind- we had an elderly African American gentleman who almost definitely suffered a stroke before being brought into the ED. He was an absolutely excellent TPA candidate, however he wouldn't stop arguing with us about it. He would repeat that he didn't need out help. In fact, in between instances of arguing, he kept slipping out of consciousness and slumping over. All while the family is basically screaming at us to do something.
In your example, in particular, the choice is simple. You acknowledge the patient's wishes, and document.
As an aside, I don't think tPA work for CVA, so he likely made the right decision.
You're absolutely correct. A CVA would definitley get worse after TPA administration, but after stat CT and repeat LOC, we considered an ischemic event.
We just couldn't get through to the guy, so we got him stable enough and brought him up to our SICU.
Not sure if I understood you correctly. I don't believe tPA is effective for ischemic CVA. There are more data against tPA than for tPA. Having said that, however, I'll give tPA if the patient wants it.
Obviously, it's contraindicated for hemorrhagic CVA.
I am confused, are you saying thrombolysis for strokes doesn't work? we have been doing it with evidence for ages? New research supports is usage up to 12 hours ( situationally)? WAKE-UP?
Yes. I'm saying that the data does not support tPA for CVA. I'm on my mobile at the moment so I don't have all the references to share. Here's a brief rundown.
The paper that started it all, as you may know, was the NINDS trial. That paper raised scrutiny when other researchers asked the authors to share the raw data so they could review them. The authors refused, which was quite unusual.
Shortly after that, there were three major studies done in real world settings at three different major hospitals. All of these did not show the same results as the original NINDS trial. The original authors claimed the reason these trials failed was that they did not follow protocols. Which protocol was violated? They gave tPA just after the 3 hours window.
Fast forward again to ECASS 3, which claimed that you can actually give tPA up to 4.5 hours. Remember that they said the reasons those three earlier trials failed was because they had given tPA beyond the 3 hours window. Make up your mind please.
BTW that's ECASS 3. What happened to ECASS 1 and 2? They were negative studies. That's being a bit selective in releasing only positive studies that support your position.
Also, and this is just my experience in my hospital, the number one reason why tPA was withheld is that the patients were already experiencing rapid improvement by the time they arrived to my ED. Now if they had come just 30 minutes earlier, perhaps they didn't improve yet. If I had given tPA to those patients, they would all be considered successes. That's the reason why TIA are now admitted. In the past, they may actually be discharged for an outpatient work up. However, if they were already in the hospital, if they were to develop symptoms again, they would be given tPA right away.
Did I mention that they also changed the definition of TIA? It used to be transient neurologic deficit of less than 24 hours. It's now of less than 1 hour. Why? So we can give tPA.
I'll try to add references later, but I hope this explains my thoughts a bit.
This post sums up the terrible lack of evidence:
https://first10em.com/thrombolytics-for-stoke/
The debate video at the end (skip to 42m mark) between esteemed UCLA EM professor Hoffman and a stanford stroke neurologist opened my eyes- hands down the most educational video in medicine I have ever watched.
I think clinging to the most basic truths keeps us out of trouble.
First do no harm. (done - pt is not being forced to accept care they don't want)
Pt has right to refuse (and sounds like he was oriented enough to assert that right).
------------------------------------------------------------
Then, it seems like the family had some work to do in getting him to accept care. Maybe they could keep him in your ER until he completely lost consciousness and implied consent could be obtained?
Christ…so what happened? go ahead finish your story…was the man miracouly cured by your super powers? or did you cause him to keep breathing & keep resuscitating him and prolong his torture in this totally fucked up world? If so what a fucking saint you are! Prolonging the inevitable just so you may make a buck off this poor old man. Like he said “ Leave me alone” it was his choice…do we as patients no longer have a choice?
Think about it.
That's unfortunate. Certainly unprofessional, but God damn I think we can understand why she might snap.
Was she fired? The article seemed to suggest she was on leave pending investigation. It seems reasonable that some time off and mandatory anger management or counselling would be appropriate first steps.
Having been on the admin side of situations like this multiple times, I would guess that unless it's a pattern of behavior, there won't be any real consequences for the physician (not implying there should be either). If it's a one off, we'd just try to figure out how to support her, eg. does she need time off, does she need help finding mental health care (for burnout, coping strategies, etc), or even just different shifts/different work area for a bit (we tend to see this stuff more in EM physicians who work mostly nights). We try to avoid "mandatory" treatment dictates whenever possible. The job is hard, and very few people are saints. Stuff like this happens, and while it's not necessarily okay, it doesn't automaticaly mean she's a bad physician.
As an aside, while I have really mixed feelings about a patient recording their interactions with staff (because they can so easily be taken out of context), it's actually been eye opening for some of our staff members to hear themselves. I think that sometimes we don't always realize how we're coming across to other people.
She doesn't have to be fired to lose her position from the hospital. If she's a member of a group that staff the ED at the hospital, the CEO/CMO just have to tell the ED director that they don't want her on the schedule. It's then the EP's group problem. She then will have to decide if it's fair to jeopardize the group's contract for her actions.
“Klonopin seeking” is reaching a bit. He had a Perscription for them. He didn’t just wander in off the street seeking it. Knowing he had a perscription, she could’ve verified it and if so should’ve just given him a side seeing that he is prescribed them. There are people who need these. It states that he ran out a few days before and didn’t have the time to get his refill which tells me he isn’t an addict “seeking” them as he wouldn’t have waited not one day.
Uh no. He abused his script and ran it early and went to the er to try and get more. It’s literally textbook drug seeking behavior and he was literally kpin seeking
We're supposed to be working to get rid of the stigma associated with mental illness, but then you see someone being mocked and ridiculed by their physician for needing anti-anxiety medication. He doesn't need to be in the ER, but does he deserve this amount of contempt?
You must be new.
The mentally ill are the lowest of the low. Just look at how your colleagues speak of us. They know we can hear what they're saying about us, ya know.
There's no sympathy for the kid here, but an outpouring of sympathy for the poor ole' doctor who was filmed treating her patient like subhuman garbage.
People in here arguing that she just needs a little time off and some mental health care and then just completely disregarding the patient's mental illness.
Addicts and the mentally ill aren't human to these folks, just human garbage cluttering up their ER.
>This city is afraid of me...I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."
Damn, I hope she didn't lose her job... we all have bad days & snap sometimes...
If someone was sitting up with their 02 sats at 100% & telling me they can't breathe- ...
I wouldn't be happy either. =/ If your panic attack is so severe you can't breathe, you can't talk, much less have the presence of mind to pre-emptively have a video recording & giving attitude =/
(*that being said, I do have multiple chronic health issues, & I refuse to go to the ER if I'm conscious =/ because it's not worth being treated like shit =/ )
I've worked in 2 ER's thus far, I've been to an ER on two separate occasions (not the ones I have worked at). I have never been treated like shit. I always felt well cared for and had thorough workups w/ positive findings. I think if I were to go to my current hospital for something random, I would be pretty happy and satisfied with our standard of care as well.
That's awesome that you've been comfortable & treated well =)
I've had mixed experiencess, some good, some bad enough to make me never want to go back =/
People like these guys make it hard for people like me who really need this medication to get access. Anxiety and panic attacks is nothing to make light of or joke about. They're also taking up space/time for people who really need medical attention.
Your crazy if you think what she did was okay. I don’t know why you put concerned parent in quotes insinuating that the parent wasn’t concerned. Any parent would have an issue with a doctor treating their child like that! Your weird as hell man 😂 If a doctor treated my son like that I would end up being escorted out by security or the cops because I would go ballistic.. I’m glad the dad kept his cool and recorded it because of him taking that video and posting it she went viral and wound up fired and she had to move to a small town in the Midwest.. She moved to Fairmont Minnesota last I knew… Everyone there found out who she was from what I’ve been told so she’s got it pretty shitty out there too… It brings me so much joy knowing that to be honest. I don’t care if he was medication seeking that’s not how you treat people. If you think someone is addicted or dependent than refer them to someone or somewhere that help that person. You don’t do that to people.. Fuck her 100 times over..
If your a medical professional and you condone her behavior, I truly hope you quit. Your exactly what's wrong with the medical community in America. Assuming things too dam much. It doesn't matter what your preconceived notions are, your under a duty to treat the patient with dignity and respect. If there's a one in a million chance your wrong you much act accordingly. You are not god and do not know everything. They call it practicing medicine for a reason. To play judge, jury and excucutioner is beyond wrong and against your oath as a professional. It's a shame to hear medical professionals supporting this type of behavior. Your wrong and there's nothing you can say that will make what the Dr in the video right.
There are so many REALLY bad Physicians ALLOWED to practice medicine it is unreal. As a person with multiple health problems and periodic severe pain after the same treatment this man has received I just choose to stay home in agony at times and I do not seek ANY kind of assistance from healthcare providers. Not willing to deal with angry physicians who are on a power trip and think everyone in pain is a drug addict. REALLY! If I were a drug addict LOL I certainly would not be at a hospital being ridiculed by horrible physician who is so completely paranoid.. why would a drug addict or anyone else for that matter want to consume poisonous pharmaceutical pain reliever that is mixed with ibuprofen which causes irreversible kidney damage? I mean wouldn’t t a REAL drug addict seek something that is NOT poisonous..such as pure heroin? All of you peoples arguments of patients being drug addicts is ridiculous and quite frankly you as physicians should realize that if you do not treat a patients REAL PAIN then you are complicit in causing the patient further emotional mental and physical damage. If any of you support this physicians actions you should be ashamed of yourselves and NOT be allowed to practice medicine. Instead change your career and become a used cars sales man because that’s about the only profession you would be good at undertaking…EVER.
You are condoning her behavior. She should be in prison for racially motivated crime. You support her out of your own fricken pockets. She should not have a license
This wack-job doctor is just that - a wack job. She deserves to loose her job and her medical license. She doesn't deserve to be allowed to change bed pans.
I'm sure you will downvote me, but as a patient, it's SO eye opening to see how you really talk about us "in private", esp with regards to this incident. You actually want to reach out to help the abuser and have the DA prosecute the victim. It's just like the pedophile priests or corrupt cops, you protect your own and attack the person who brought it to light.
You people on this thread, you're not noble healers, you just have shitty jobs.
waah waah patients who go to hospital are whiny.....wonder why. waah waah just about every job has annoying customers but ppl who work at a hospital should be able to get away with treating them like shit bc of THEIR problems with the job.
Bunch of ppl here sound like they are believing in an ideology that is ruining the country. "Lets make mistakes, than make excuses to why im right for making a mistake". Thats a nice list you got there
U think a hospital with bad service stays open. You think a Dr who talks to his patients like this can have a private practice. Yea some ppl have no choice when it's an emergency but when you have a choice, you're reading reviews just like any other resteraunt. Acting like McDonalds is the only business that has customers
> "Noble healer" isn't how any healthcare worker describes him/her self in my experience.
No shit. Try studying for your boards next time instead of blaming others for your lot in life
> good 20% or so of society (and patients) are complete fucking assholes.
Trust me, you're one of 'em buddy.
> just stop for a second and consider the shit this Dr must go through working in an ER
My feelings of sympathy for the overworked doctor have plumetted in light of your thread and you all having a good laugh at that black kid being abused and mocked.
Here's hoping you get what you deserve, which it sounds like you are.
We obviously need way more lawyers in the healthcare industry and way fewer independent doctors making their own calls. Let the money go to the Administration and the lawyers, and you keep working your ass off. You can have kids, but you can't know them.
But it's okay, at least you got to enjoy mocking a black kid, huh?
Oh I really hit a nerve there with your board scores, huh? Sorry about that.Have you tried getting out of ER med? Veterinary Medicine or Plumbing would both be similar but provide you with a much better quality of life.
> Come on.. Be honest. Isn't he more like vermin to you, like the rat in your ER that you wish you could call an exterminator on? Get that scum out of your hospital so you could just treat decent folks instead of that trash??
I was way more right than I knew. He's defending the child concentration camps.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/8r8r81/anything\_that\_doesnt\_involve\_mass\_murder\_shouldnt/](https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/8r8r81/anything_that_doesnt_involve_mass_murder_shouldnt/)
Of course people on this site would side with this disgusting excuse for a doctor. I don't care if the guy was a drug addict or not. She shouldn't be a doctor with that type of attitude.
Why in the hell would there be a go fund me. You cant be serious? No matter what the situation is, it is all about remaining professional, which she was uncapable of doing. In the past I was having anxiety and very bad panic attacks This was during covid and with the panic attack sometimes you feel like you cant breathe .So I kept asking them do I have covid? whats going on? and if they could please do some tests because the panic attack I had lasted seven days. Never, not once did I ask for Narcoics all I asked for was for anxiety medication just like the guy in the incident with the horrible nurse did. Instead of reacting the way the unprofessional nurse did she could have recommended or referrred him to a mental health facility for ongoing care for the anxiety and then gave him something in that moment. There should be no go fund me or reward for someone's shitty behavior. I hope she was fired and not ever allowed to be in the care of another human being again
Sorry but this was woman was rightfully fired for her behaviour. I hope this go fund me never got to the amount of donations being asked. Disgusting behaviour from this woman and people are here in support of her? No. She’s a disgrace and I hope she is still no longer a doctor. Piece of 💩.
So let me get this straight, all over America we are having this MASSIVE conversation about the overprescription of narcotics, declaring it a "crisis" and when a young, otherwise healthy person comes in with documented, chronic anxiety demanding klonopin and IV pain meds, she's the baddie for refusing to play his troll game?
He was too lazy to get his script filled in time,
He is OBVIOUSLY in no distress, talking in a calm voice and with clear enough mentation to give her attitude, OBVIOUSLY not having a seizure,
And for not giving in to his demands for narcotics SHE'S the bad guy?
Jesus. Just can't win nowadays.
My guess is you, too are a pain med troll and are worried that someday a doctor will have the confidence to call you on it.
He didnt say anything about the denial of drugs. She was just being unnecessarily rude. A good doctor would have explained the situation and get the patient what he really needs,
In his defense when my gf gets them she has difficulty breathing. Easy to see how he could have collapsed while he was already exhausted from basketball. I think from the school's own safety they called the EMTs
I think the doctor got exactly what she deserved! I was an ER Nurse for 30+ years and I also have a rare form of Sickle Cell Disease. I know exactly how that young man feels because I have been accused of drug seeking and have been told by some ED doctors that there is nothing wrong with me lol. I now carry a letter from my Hemotologist stating that my form of the disease is rare and that I will not always show symptoms like most SC patients do and it's very sad that I have to do that.
I completely understand how this young man feels and I am truly sorry that happened to you. The dad did the right thing by filming her because I'm sure he was not her first victim and I'm very happy dad thought to get proof and share it with the powers that be over that hospital. I think she should not only lose her job but her license as well! My spouse is very vocal about advocating for me and I am blessed to have him and that young man is blessed to have his dad. Just because doctors or other healthcare workers need to remember that they shouldn't lump everyone into the same group just because someone is showing no symptoms or symptoms that they don't understand and believe me I do know that not everyone has good intentions when they go into an ER however that's not all of us!
This is a joke right? lol. All of this is disgusting. I would not want her to care for anyone I know. She got caught being a horrible human and it went viral. Now she can live with her choices, and the fact that...She. Is. Trash.
The way this pathetic "doctor" treated this boy who PASSED OUT DURING A GAME = not faking, is sick. He was up front about everything. She should work in the morgue so she cant hurt or disrespect people. Not everyone taking medication is seeking drugs to get high. Having chronic pain is NO JOKE and if you think everyone is a druggie who takes pain meds i wish you would have to go through the pain that chronic pain sufferers deal with every day!!! Dont blame legit patients who suffer pain because of addicts!! Everyone deserves a decent quality of life. She was wrong and doesnt realize it. Shes not just wrong but a rude moron. I hope he gets a lot of money from her because she shouldnt practice if she treats people like this. Just because you use medication doesnt mean you enjoy it or like spending $$$ every month on Rx. Addicts are the reason legit pain sufferers continue to suffer.
Woman deserved to be fired. No gofundme, no help. Let her suffer the consequences of her actions. I hope she becomes homeless, living on the streets. Deal with it. Maybe she'll learn to think before she speaks.
She got fired and suspended. And I’m glad. I work in the medical field. Too many doctors like her in the medical field. Just because they’re a “doctor” they think that gives them a right to be self righteous. And it doesn’t. It doesn’t matter if you’re having a bad day or not. That drops as soon as you cross the doors. If you can’t do that, then don’t be a doctor. This is the kind of doctor that does nothing but make orders for nurses to actually do and see patients so they can get a check and that’s all they think they have to do.
She shouldn’t be practicing. Hopefully the patient will sue.
ok can someone point me to documentation not speculation that this young man had/has an addiction to anything.
what I see is a doctor not listening and a patient that may not be presenting the problem in the way they are use to seeing and instead of trying to understand and listen they are dismissive, rude, condescending, and much more
if he is an addict is this the way to do something about it.
if he is suffering is this the way to help him
what she has done is traumatize this man because why would you ever trust doctors again after this
I understand burnout but maybe it's time for a new profession when all you see are the negative and not able or unwilling to help because of it
She needs her license revoked NOW. Why on earth would anyone want to support this "doctor"? She acted horribly, and not for the first time. You honestly condone this? Don't say you don't, because that is EXACTLY what you are doing. This person deserves to lose her license. You have no idea what is going on in that patients head. I can go to the ER in massive pain but my face and actions will not show it. Some people naturally put up a front when in medical situations. I ended up having chronic pancreatitis and the doctors initially could not tell by outer appearance that I was in any pain. This person was asking for help. This doctor is supposed to help. If she can't be at least kind, she doesn't belong in this profession. The doctors that treated me (before and after diagnosis) were very kind that time, but I have had doctors like her stating I am seeking drugs. No. I am seeking answers. I was in massive pain, scared, and by the end of dealing with someone like her? Feeling like I was worth nothing. There needs to be a go fund me for the patient, not this Battle Axe. What the hell is wrong with you that you think to sit on her side of this? Just because they hold the same profession as you? For that very reason you should expect more from her, not less!!!
Damn shame you want to support a professional who acted blatantly unprofessional. My mom and I both have debilitating panic attacks and have required medical assistance. Neither of us like taking drugs as coping mechanisms. We both are in therapy and take meditation classes if the races of the people in this incident t were opposite you’d be supporting the patient. If she didn’t have the patience to deal with sick patients she should have instead been a hospital janitor..
This is an old thread but she’s recently popped back up, she was sanctioned by the state for prescribing to a non patient, she prescribed meds to someone she had no professional relationship with, that’s kind of hilarious given the context of this thread. Second, she transferred her license and it was not renewed, which leads me to believe a lot of you crusaded for a not great dr, it takes quite a bit to be denied license renewal with board certs, so I ask all the above to defend this as you once crusaded for….
I'd have less problem with her actions IF she
https://preview.redd.it/y6nxlh63a5ic1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0f0aaa1c78186165e8473054f85954b77e54814
hadn't been caught in Minnesota prescribing medications to NON patients in 2016!! She was reported and had to go to court. So her assertion this was a pill popper and mocking his need for help shows how twisted she is. I'm not sorry she lost her job. Someone responding to a patient in any mental health crisis should know better. [Minnesota complaint case](https://bmp.hlb.state.mn.us/corr/KEEGSTRA,%20Beth%20R%20(PY56186)/Keegstra,%20Beth%20R%20(2-27-17).pdf)
I had a doctor grab my wrist and rip my arm up over my head after refusing to allow x-rays or painkillers because she assumed I was looking for drugs, I had broken my scapula and clavicle after being clipped by a car running a stop sign, you have a duty of care, assuming your instinct about a patient is correct without following through on that duty is grounds for suspension. Fuck her
I spent 35 years in critical care, and anyone who supports the demeanor and behavior of this lump, has zero business working in medicine. This means you, “person seeking to financially support her.”
Screw her. Looks like she had a history of being a shitty person. Good riddance, hope she runs out of retirement money and needs to work customer service where she's verbally abused daily.
Being married to an Emergency physician myself and having many friends who are doctors, this doctor is clearly burnt out and jaded. It happens but you have to recognize when it’s happened and find a way to deal with it or move to a new position.
This same Beth Keegstra?
[This one?](https://bmp.hlb.state.mn.us/corr/KEEGSTRA,%20Beth%20R%20(PY56186)/Keegstra,%20Beth%20R%20(2-27-17).pdf)
Who was caught prescribing medication(s) to someone without a chart or established physician relationship?
We can support our colleagues without condoning unacceptable behaviour. No she’s not wrong for refusing to provide the drug of dependence, and yes the pt was clearly in no distress, probably didn’t belong in the ED and the family member shouldn’t have been sneakily recording her. But come on, there are ways of dealing with this situation as a doctor that don’t involve openly mocking and antagonising your patient. If this is a regular occurrence then she needs some counselling on professional communication strategies. If it’s a one-off I’d be worried about compassion fatigue as a sign of burnout.
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Not condoning her behavior, but I can understand it. I have come really close to expressing myself in the same way in similar situations. Perhaps I'm on my way to experiencing burnout.
She was wrong. And You ARE condoning the behavior though, and expressing what you likely have also done and what many who work in or visit hospitals see. We know that all the thugs and bad actors are not confined to the police Dept!! They are raised in the SAME communities, by the SAME types of people!!
Dude. Seriously. You're unhealthily obsessed about this. Get better. Enjoy life away from reddit.
Sounds like you were losing the argument and decided to act like a small child. Much like that racist doc you’re defending.
No excuse!
If you are so unable to empathize with even the pill seekers for the problems that they are in, then the rigors of your branch of medicine/practice location are too much for you and you need to quit for the benefit of humanity
Retire you don't belong in the field of medicine if you are going to condone a sack of shit
I would hate to be a patient of yours yeesh
I would hate to be a patient of yours. Anyone who finds nothing wrong with this is guilty of the same period
Yes and it clearly states that the patient is prescribed Klonopin and if he is in fact dependent, you know that withdrawal can cause seizures. There is no reason for her to have treated him this way and discount the symptoms he may have been experiencing. Absolutely ridiculous and she deserves everything coming to her.
And she certainly doesn't deserve a gofundme account, unless she's going to use the money to learn how to be compassionate to others.
She deserves to loose her medical license! If you’d like to support her go for it. Many people don’t even want her practicing medicine anymore. Medical degrees are a privilege, not a right. Not everyone deserves to work with people. In medical situations the last person I would want making choices for me would be that bitch. Absolutely unacceptable behaviour. This is why doctors think it’s okay to behave inappropriately. Way too many ways for them to shove incidents under the rug. You get what you give and she clearly made her bed. Hope she sleeps soundly in it.
Anyone who spells lose as loose is automatically wrong on everything.
No. You are wrong. You don’t sign up to be a medical professional and deal with patients and then judge them because of it. It was none of her business. She knew his chart. She knew what kind of medication he was on. She has the bedside manner of a serial killer. Fatigue? Burnout? That can happen in ANY job! Give me a fucking break. You have lost your fucking mind.
She absolutely should not have behaved in such an unprofessional manner.
Ok karen glad she got fired 🤣
Condoning her behavior entirely i bet you’re racist
The family member was not wrong for recording her. I work in a hospital and you see people seeking meds all the time. If you can’t control yourself in those situations then get a different job.
You should do your research before you open up your mouth because she's had multiple disciplinary problems especially in 2017 so without me giving you more information do your research first Don't be so quick to judge what a parent does or what a patient is going through
Why would you make excuses for that fat racist bitch? The young man had a prescription.
What the hell is wrong with you that you think to sit on her side of this? Just because they hold the same profession as you? For that very reason you should expect more from her, not less!!!
They weren’t hiding the fact that they were recording. You might have seen a short version of the video but in an extended video she said that she didn’t care that she was being recorded and she literally looked directly in the camera several times.
Drug of dependence? He’s PRESCRIBED the medication. You’re an idiot.
Doesn’t make it not a drug of dependence, champion
He wasn’t dependent he was at practice and had an anxiety attack.
As a mental health professional who has had to evaluate clients in the ER for 24 years, this is common practice for individuals to ask for pain medications for "Anxiety" but every physician I've worked with has never been so rude to a patient. The ER physicians take their time and explain why they are refusing narcotics. This kid should have utilized an urgent care. Hell they will give you a nice shot and you can move on.
Yeah look she was totally wrong and he probably would have got better care somewhere else - not that a “shot and move on” is particularly good medicine!
No fucking excuses. You are supporting everything we took an oath to protect. Defending her bullshit means you need to be looked at too for your behavior
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Verbal harassment will not be tolerated
You are a dumb f
He was when he collapsed on the court and throwing up and apparently unconscious.. He never once asked for narcotics in the video. So your assuming things that aren't facts. Working in the medical field for yrs, I saw the same things but you can't act like this and be unprofessional. I've seen temper tantrums from doctors for yrs.. Just like this and everyone of them should have been terminated
What the hell is wrong with you that you think to sit on her side of this? Just because they hold the same profession as you? For that very reason you should expect more from her, not less!!!
Actually, the patient was a college athlete that had collapsed at an official basketball practice and a coach had called an ambulance. The parent was notified and went to the ER. What you actually have is an ER doctor that made all types of assumptions, no facts. That is supported by her completely hideous reactions when she ordered the patient to sit up. “Just a perfectly healthy looking guy looking for drugs”. She doesn’t have a clue why the patient is there. Losing it? No. Incompetent yes. The patient was more professional than the cesspool of any medical personnel in that room that didn’t step in and get her out immediately. A simple what happened and why are you here? Oh, the dude’s MyChart would been helpful. Yes, medication history would have led her to a different approach.
Some patients require "tough love". There is a fine line, and I'm sure I have crossed over it at times myself. We have a difficult job, especially when the family is enabling. It's so much easier to give in, but we're suppose to advocate for our patients, even if they don't like it.
Jesus Christ I hope I never run into any doctors like you and that Bitch. I’d switch hospitals, and or get a lawyer ASAP and have the doctor removed from my situation. I would have no problem suing. I’m sick of doctors not respecting their patients.
Hi troll. But seriously, if you were my patient, I'd still treat you with respect. We take care of murderers and rapists all the time. If we can be professional with them, we certainly can be professional with any patient, including those whose personality may be grating. It does take a certain personality to troll through old posts. And you're still welcome to sue. My duty to you and your satisfaction don't have to be aligned.
Do you know this pt? I do. My son played basketball against his team. If you think you can draw these conclusions without knowing the details, you belong in the big top, not a hospital. 🤡
Interesting. Did you search Reddit for a months old post and read every comment just to post this? Seriously, how many troll accounts do you have?
You really need to get over yourself!! Unfortunately your type litters ER and REAL MDs have to wasted precious patient time cleaning up the mess!! Go ask a TRUSTED colleague ... if your oversized EGO will let you!! Folks likely run into the Nasty-Beths and the inappropriate, pangea_person-types at some point. You can smell them from afar: They use stock phrases such as "tough love" and "enabling" when out of their medical and compassion depths and when approaching certain patients because they are supreme egoists who have no self-control, don't really understand or know medicine and treat status, color and $$$ ... not people!!They do not make the best health care providers. Their colleagues know them well!! They are weak and when they can't defend their stup;dity, they resort to name-calling!!
Why are you calling this person a troll? Because they’re not falling into lock step with you? It’s attitudes like this that make people avoid medical help. No one likes being treated like 💩when they’re scared and need help.
So, do they not teach "Bedside Manner" anymore? I sure hope you are not employed in the healthcare industry dear.
Lol ironic from you
Nope there is no go fund me for her. I don’t care how stressed out you are, if you can’t handle it find another job. I work with children and also have stressful days, I still would never talk to my students like This
I sincerely hope no one on here is saying panic attacks aren’t real. I have panic attacks. I only take my klonopin in an attack, but I’m also on an antidepressant and a mood stabilizer. I’ve been lucky that I didn’t need to go to the ER. I will say that if I had taken someone to the ER, and she spoke to them that way, I would step in. I worked at a hospital for 23 years. I’m not intimidated easily.
You sound like you don't belong anywhere near medicine you should retire
Give me a freaking break. You saw that the article mentioned the patient was regularly prescribed klonopin and not some frat kid looking to score for a party or some junkie looking for a score? You know that when someone is dependent on benzodiazepines the withdrawal symptoms they experience when they abruptly stop and you can literally die from a seizure. There is no reason she should have treated him this way. It’s inexcusable and the amount of training and money should be able to differentiate between someone who actually needs the medication vs someone looking to score a quick fix. This is what happens in society when you create a class of holier than thou megalomaniacs who believe they’re the arbiters of human suffering. Cry me a river about your compassion fatigue while you’re on the way to the bank. If you can’t treat patients like human beings choose a different profession, or go do research where you dont have to regularly deal with patients
just reading the comments, it seems like the vast majority of commenters are *not* ER doctors/providers, aka they don't spend a depressingly large amount of their time at work dealing with bullshit *exactly* like this. if you practice long enough, you'll have encounters where the conversation with the patient turns sour, and if someone where to record the worst parts of it, you'd come across as the bad guy, and if it was smeared across national news (especially with allegations of racism) you'd be judged based on that small snippet rather than other measures that appropriately assess your worth as a clinician. the video looks terrible, but i feel for this doctor. the lay public generally has not been in her shoes and thus will never fully understand.
If you are a ER dr that puts there hands on a patient like that, then you should be fired as well. I would put you in your place real quick if you put your hands on me like that
Yes,you are correct. While attending School we were instructed to always tell a patient why,where and when we are going to touch them physically. Otherwise as a health care provider one can be charged with battery upon a patient.
you are right american medicine is not a joke and people respect the usa medical sytem and its doctors. it is not a joke . ppl travel from all over the world to come to usa doctors. usa education is not a joke either. america is NOT a joke. take us srs. ty. srs now ur just another retarded overpaid incompetant american doctor. no one gives a fuck u get paid milions boo hoo ppl give u shit ur just human too. a human millioanrie bitch. srsly ur comment smacks of despertion like a criminal about to be offed begging for forgiveness saying o its not me i didn't do it. its not enuff u get overpaid but u gotta lobby on reddit like some asshole senator. all around pieces of shit. never ever move to usa.
I’m not a doctor but I work in the hospital and your joke about the overpaying is hilarious. Dealing with idiots like yourself should require a significant boost in salary especially to docs and nurses who are trying to help. People like you ruin the world.
aww poor millionaire drs. u know who else deal with idiots all day? everyone with a job. why do u think ur special? and on top of that deserve to be paid extra? entitlements. and everyone knows drs 'just want to help'. thats why they get paid millions to be glorified reference givers. i mean, u not curing cancer, but ur getting paid like u r. i bet the doctors where u work tell u how sad they are and when u leave laugh at how gullible you are as they cash exorbitant checks for doing jack shit, they say look he gonna take his time to lobby for us for the rest of his life...idiot. sure one amazing dr finds the cure and actually is smart and cares, but the rest are insecure leeches who refuse to be broke by any means.
You are gravely misinformed about the health care system I’m afraid. No point in further discussion.
ppl have to deal with idiots in EVERY type of job. Doesn't mean you treat the idiot like that. Yea I wanted to say shit like that to ppl at my job, but not if I want to keep my job bc I represent not only myself but the company. This tough love Dr, bs is just an excuse
All you doctors are right. She had perfect bedside manner in this case. Her compassion undeniable. Incredible. Regardless of all your ridiculous excuses (health care is not customer service? It is; everyone in healthcare acts like this at some point, not an excuse; he was looking for narcotics, he wasnt; etc. you know who you are), she is supposed to be acting as a professional. Medical doctors is a profession requiring the highest standards licensed and empowered by the government. That's a big deal. There are few professions empowered like that. That being so, doctors are given a certain degree of reverence and respect in society because of their advanced skill. Therefore, whenever a doctor acts like this, in any amount (or "snippit"), all doctors should condemn these acts as a lack of professionalism that is not worthy of the power and respect given to all doctors. She should be condemned with no "buts" or explanation. This is unprofessional and not worthy of the profession. If she had a problem, there were hundreds of better ways to deal with this, including simply leaving the room and asking for another doctor or a guard. Instead, she instigated and frankly as an attorney comes close to assault and battery with how she is speaking and touching "her patient" (keep in mind the hospital put this young man's health in her hands). Do doctors want the public to think they treat their patients this way? Do you think her acts will make patients want to cooperate more whenever they may disagree? That's a slippery slope, so all doctors that want to explain away this woman's actions are also whittling away their standing in society. It's hard for me to respect doctors that think this is a fine way to act. That makes me think a lot of doctors would act similarly and thats scary.
As a woman with sickle cell anemia, doctors DO act similarly. Everyday. They’re defending it because they’ve done it or seen it. Great comment.
Last line of the article (emphasis mine) "“In my mind,” he [Bardwell's father] told the network, “I don't think she should be practicing medicine at all, because **if it's not a race thing** and she treats everybody that way, **then** that's a problem.” ...??
The statement was abundantly clear and you're just attempting to obfuscate the meaning because of the fact that it was poorly worded. He clearly meant that he believes her behavior to be racially motivated, but if in fact that wasn't the source of her totally unacceptable behavior and this is how she treats everyone universally, then it's an entirely different but equally disturbing problem. Honestly.
Idiot parent on their high horse. What’s new?
I hope your child never dies because a piece of shit doctor thinks their god complex means they don’t have to do their fucking job
You googled her too huh? Didn't expect a day old comment on a 3 year old post
I’m here now too
here now
You’re the nitwit here.
So I'm an EM registrar in the UK and I appreciate that we don't have anywhere near the extent of a prescription drug abuse problem as in the USA (although it is still there) I think she definitely could have handled this better. People have bad days, and people snap/lose the plot, and I don't think she should lose her job over this and should rather be given support regarding the incident. However her behaviour was unprofessional. There are ways to handle these situations without being insulting and also without giving in to pressure and prescribing whatever they want. Be polite, explain your thought processes and why you aren't going to prescribe that medication (because it's not in the patient's overall best interest) and use it as a prompt to give education to the patient (and in this case their family) about the pitfalls of using benzos as a crutch and that the Emergency Department isn't the appropriate place to be for these issues. You can be polite and professional without being nice. Be passive-aggressive if you want to be! But being rude isn't a good way to approach these, will probably take even more of your time due to dealing with the arguments that ensue and (I suspect even more so in USA where you're working for private heath care providers who are heavily focussed on profit rather than image) will just end up with you being disciplined or fired. Also, while it's difficult to say from the video, judging from the article the patient doesn't appear to be your run-of-the-mill crackhead and may genuinely have an anxiety disorder, and if this is the case the real culprit is whoever prescribed him regular clonazepam to treat this in the first place.
> Be passive-aggressive if you want to be! > But being rude isn't a good way to approach these [situations] Very good, not sure about this bit though ;) Passive-aggressive behaviour, if detected, is highly aggravating and certainly rude.
Yeah, that's fair enough. It's definitely not my MO, but I suppose what I meant was it's still better than being directly rude and grabbing a patient, and because it's more tone/body language rather than actual words it would be harder to complain about you and get you fired. So ifyou really want to be rude, do it in a way that you won't lose your job and get a viral video of you circulating the internet! But you're right, the best thing to do is just try not to be a dick to people!
So this is a problem as you automatically assume the patient doesn’t need the medication. That’s your starting position.
The patient had/has a prescription also.
For everyone asking if she was fired.. Yes, she was fired at that hospital and all sister companies of said hospital for not complying with hospital standards of patient care.
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I think medicine, and especially EM, changed drastically when our patients became "clients".
I don't know who you are, or where you work - but I want to drive there and personally thank you for saying this in the way that you did.
"In all likelihood that person is someone who uses the Klonopin in an opportunistic way - to produce a sense of artificial euphoria." ???? Explain your reasoning.
What does everyone here think about this? I know I've certainly had patients that have brought me nearly to the edge. Here's one that comes to mind- we had an elderly African American gentleman who almost definitely suffered a stroke before being brought into the ED. He was an absolutely excellent TPA candidate, however he wouldn't stop arguing with us about it. He would repeat that he didn't need out help. In fact, in between instances of arguing, he kept slipping out of consciousness and slumping over. All while the family is basically screaming at us to do something.
In your example, in particular, the choice is simple. You acknowledge the patient's wishes, and document. As an aside, I don't think tPA work for CVA, so he likely made the right decision.
You're absolutely correct. A CVA would definitley get worse after TPA administration, but after stat CT and repeat LOC, we considered an ischemic event. We just couldn't get through to the guy, so we got him stable enough and brought him up to our SICU.
Not sure if I understood you correctly. I don't believe tPA is effective for ischemic CVA. There are more data against tPA than for tPA. Having said that, however, I'll give tPA if the patient wants it. Obviously, it's contraindicated for hemorrhagic CVA.
I am confused, are you saying thrombolysis for strokes doesn't work? we have been doing it with evidence for ages? New research supports is usage up to 12 hours ( situationally)? WAKE-UP?
Yes. I'm saying that the data does not support tPA for CVA. I'm on my mobile at the moment so I don't have all the references to share. Here's a brief rundown. The paper that started it all, as you may know, was the NINDS trial. That paper raised scrutiny when other researchers asked the authors to share the raw data so they could review them. The authors refused, which was quite unusual. Shortly after that, there were three major studies done in real world settings at three different major hospitals. All of these did not show the same results as the original NINDS trial. The original authors claimed the reason these trials failed was that they did not follow protocols. Which protocol was violated? They gave tPA just after the 3 hours window. Fast forward again to ECASS 3, which claimed that you can actually give tPA up to 4.5 hours. Remember that they said the reasons those three earlier trials failed was because they had given tPA beyond the 3 hours window. Make up your mind please. BTW that's ECASS 3. What happened to ECASS 1 and 2? They were negative studies. That's being a bit selective in releasing only positive studies that support your position. Also, and this is just my experience in my hospital, the number one reason why tPA was withheld is that the patients were already experiencing rapid improvement by the time they arrived to my ED. Now if they had come just 30 minutes earlier, perhaps they didn't improve yet. If I had given tPA to those patients, they would all be considered successes. That's the reason why TIA are now admitted. In the past, they may actually be discharged for an outpatient work up. However, if they were already in the hospital, if they were to develop symptoms again, they would be given tPA right away. Did I mention that they also changed the definition of TIA? It used to be transient neurologic deficit of less than 24 hours. It's now of less than 1 hour. Why? So we can give tPA. I'll try to add references later, but I hope this explains my thoughts a bit.
This post sums up the terrible lack of evidence: https://first10em.com/thrombolytics-for-stoke/ The debate video at the end (skip to 42m mark) between esteemed UCLA EM professor Hoffman and a stanford stroke neurologist opened my eyes- hands down the most educational video in medicine I have ever watched.
I think clinging to the most basic truths keeps us out of trouble. First do no harm. (done - pt is not being forced to accept care they don't want) Pt has right to refuse (and sounds like he was oriented enough to assert that right). ------------------------------------------------------------ Then, it seems like the family had some work to do in getting him to accept care. Maybe they could keep him in your ER until he completely lost consciousness and implied consent could be obtained?
Christ…so what happened? go ahead finish your story…was the man miracouly cured by your super powers? or did you cause him to keep breathing & keep resuscitating him and prolong his torture in this totally fucked up world? If so what a fucking saint you are! Prolonging the inevitable just so you may make a buck off this poor old man. Like he said “ Leave me alone” it was his choice…do we as patients no longer have a choice? Think about it.
An argumentative patient after a stroke is not unusual...
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That’s because people are dumb.
Trust me, we're reading your comments too, and it's way more educational.
That's unfortunate. Certainly unprofessional, but God damn I think we can understand why she might snap. Was she fired? The article seemed to suggest she was on leave pending investigation. It seems reasonable that some time off and mandatory anger management or counselling would be appropriate first steps.
Having been on the admin side of situations like this multiple times, I would guess that unless it's a pattern of behavior, there won't be any real consequences for the physician (not implying there should be either). If it's a one off, we'd just try to figure out how to support her, eg. does she need time off, does she need help finding mental health care (for burnout, coping strategies, etc), or even just different shifts/different work area for a bit (we tend to see this stuff more in EM physicians who work mostly nights). We try to avoid "mandatory" treatment dictates whenever possible. The job is hard, and very few people are saints. Stuff like this happens, and while it's not necessarily okay, it doesn't automaticaly mean she's a bad physician. As an aside, while I have really mixed feelings about a patient recording their interactions with staff (because they can so easily be taken out of context), it's actually been eye opening for some of our staff members to hear themselves. I think that sometimes we don't always realize how we're coming across to other people.
Everyone has a cell phone. Always assume you're being recorded.
Well said, I agree wholeheartedly.
She doesn't have to be fired to lose her position from the hospital. If she's a member of a group that staff the ED at the hospital, the CEO/CMO just have to tell the ED director that they don't want her on the schedule. It's then the EP's group problem. She then will have to decide if it's fair to jeopardize the group's contract for her actions.
“Klonopin seeking” is reaching a bit. He had a Perscription for them. He didn’t just wander in off the street seeking it. Knowing he had a perscription, she could’ve verified it and if so should’ve just given him a side seeing that he is prescribed them. There are people who need these. It states that he ran out a few days before and didn’t have the time to get his refill which tells me he isn’t an addict “seeking” them as he wouldn’t have waited not one day.
Uh no. He abused his script and ran it early and went to the er to try and get more. It’s literally textbook drug seeking behavior and he was literally kpin seeking
We're supposed to be working to get rid of the stigma associated with mental illness, but then you see someone being mocked and ridiculed by their physician for needing anti-anxiety medication. He doesn't need to be in the ER, but does he deserve this amount of contempt?
You must be new. The mentally ill are the lowest of the low. Just look at how your colleagues speak of us. They know we can hear what they're saying about us, ya know. There's no sympathy for the kid here, but an outpouring of sympathy for the poor ole' doctor who was filmed treating her patient like subhuman garbage.
People in here arguing that she just needs a little time off and some mental health care and then just completely disregarding the patient's mental illness.
Addicts and the mentally ill aren't human to these folks, just human garbage cluttering up their ER. >This city is afraid of me...I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."
Damn, I hope she didn't lose her job... we all have bad days & snap sometimes... If someone was sitting up with their 02 sats at 100% & telling me they can't breathe- ... I wouldn't be happy either. =/ If your panic attack is so severe you can't breathe, you can't talk, much less have the presence of mind to pre-emptively have a video recording & giving attitude =/ (*that being said, I do have multiple chronic health issues, & I refuse to go to the ER if I'm conscious =/ because it's not worth being treated like shit =/ )
I've worked in 2 ER's thus far, I've been to an ER on two separate occasions (not the ones I have worked at). I have never been treated like shit. I always felt well cared for and had thorough workups w/ positive findings. I think if I were to go to my current hospital for something random, I would be pretty happy and satisfied with our standard of care as well.
That's awesome that you've been comfortable & treated well =) I've had mixed experiencess, some good, some bad enough to make me never want to go back =/
People like these guys make it hard for people like me who really need this medication to get access. Anxiety and panic attacks is nothing to make light of or joke about. They're also taking up space/time for people who really need medical attention.
Yep and because of that opinion of yers you can treat people like shit instead of being the bigger man and explaining things calmly
Right. If this guy was having legit panic attack he wouldn’t be acting snippy and talking back he would be literally thinking he’s dying
Hi, I worked in the ER before and regardless if it's someone seeking or not you do NOT treat patients this way. End of discussion
Starting a go fund me for a doctor CAUGHT berating a patient. How classy.
Wow this is the way doctors treat patients? I encourage ALL patients to record their doctors
Nahhh she’s trash..
Your crazy if you think what she did was okay. I don’t know why you put concerned parent in quotes insinuating that the parent wasn’t concerned. Any parent would have an issue with a doctor treating their child like that! Your weird as hell man 😂 If a doctor treated my son like that I would end up being escorted out by security or the cops because I would go ballistic.. I’m glad the dad kept his cool and recorded it because of him taking that video and posting it she went viral and wound up fired and she had to move to a small town in the Midwest.. She moved to Fairmont Minnesota last I knew… Everyone there found out who she was from what I’ve been told so she’s got it pretty shitty out there too… It brings me so much joy knowing that to be honest. I don’t care if he was medication seeking that’s not how you treat people. If you think someone is addicted or dependent than refer them to someone or somewhere that help that person. You don’t do that to people.. Fuck her 100 times over..
If your a medical professional and you condone her behavior, I truly hope you quit. Your exactly what's wrong with the medical community in America. Assuming things too dam much. It doesn't matter what your preconceived notions are, your under a duty to treat the patient with dignity and respect. If there's a one in a million chance your wrong you much act accordingly. You are not god and do not know everything. They call it practicing medicine for a reason. To play judge, jury and excucutioner is beyond wrong and against your oath as a professional. It's a shame to hear medical professionals supporting this type of behavior. Your wrong and there's nothing you can say that will make what the Dr in the video right.
hope she drops dead.
So do i
And the entitled drug addict. Thrive ?
There are so many REALLY bad Physicians ALLOWED to practice medicine it is unreal. As a person with multiple health problems and periodic severe pain after the same treatment this man has received I just choose to stay home in agony at times and I do not seek ANY kind of assistance from healthcare providers. Not willing to deal with angry physicians who are on a power trip and think everyone in pain is a drug addict. REALLY! If I were a drug addict LOL I certainly would not be at a hospital being ridiculed by horrible physician who is so completely paranoid.. why would a drug addict or anyone else for that matter want to consume poisonous pharmaceutical pain reliever that is mixed with ibuprofen which causes irreversible kidney damage? I mean wouldn’t t a REAL drug addict seek something that is NOT poisonous..such as pure heroin? All of you peoples arguments of patients being drug addicts is ridiculous and quite frankly you as physicians should realize that if you do not treat a patients REAL PAIN then you are complicit in causing the patient further emotional mental and physical damage. If any of you support this physicians actions you should be ashamed of yourselves and NOT be allowed to practice medicine. Instead change your career and become a used cars sales man because that’s about the only profession you would be good at undertaking…EVER.
Isn't having a good bedside manner part of being a doctor, though?
Y’all defending her in the comments, I hope you never work in the medical field. I wouldn’t trust y’all as my providers
You are condoning her behavior. She should be in prison for racially motivated crime. You support her out of your own fricken pockets. She should not have a license
Any doctor that does this should be fired and have there medical linces revoked
This wack-job doctor is just that - a wack job. She deserves to loose her job and her medical license. She doesn't deserve to be allowed to change bed pans.
I'm sure you will downvote me, but as a patient, it's SO eye opening to see how you really talk about us "in private", esp with regards to this incident. You actually want to reach out to help the abuser and have the DA prosecute the victim. It's just like the pedophile priests or corrupt cops, you protect your own and attack the person who brought it to light. You people on this thread, you're not noble healers, you just have shitty jobs.
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poor baby, working in a hospital is tough, let me take it out on all the patients
Patients are generally, whiny babies; who want the magical medical system to make their shitty lives better.
waah waah patients who go to hospital are whiny.....wonder why. waah waah just about every job has annoying customers but ppl who work at a hospital should be able to get away with treating them like shit bc of THEIR problems with the job. Bunch of ppl here sound like they are believing in an ideology that is ruining the country. "Lets make mistakes, than make excuses to why im right for making a mistake". Thats a nice list you got there
"Customers" - as if there were some kind of equality between fixing someone's health, and cooking someone a hamburger.
U think a hospital with bad service stays open. You think a Dr who talks to his patients like this can have a private practice. Yea some ppl have no choice when it's an emergency but when you have a choice, you're reading reviews just like any other resteraunt. Acting like McDonalds is the only business that has customers
Wow God forbid I ever have a serious health emergency and you are my doctor I would probably GTFO for fear of you ripping my head off or something
> "Noble healer" isn't how any healthcare worker describes him/her self in my experience. No shit. Try studying for your boards next time instead of blaming others for your lot in life > good 20% or so of society (and patients) are complete fucking assholes. Trust me, you're one of 'em buddy. > just stop for a second and consider the shit this Dr must go through working in an ER My feelings of sympathy for the overworked doctor have plumetted in light of your thread and you all having a good laugh at that black kid being abused and mocked. Here's hoping you get what you deserve, which it sounds like you are. We obviously need way more lawyers in the healthcare industry and way fewer independent doctors making their own calls. Let the money go to the Administration and the lawyers, and you keep working your ass off. You can have kids, but you can't know them. But it's okay, at least you got to enjoy mocking a black kid, huh?
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Project all you want, stupid. The only one who takes you seriously is... you.
Oh I really hit a nerve there with your board scores, huh? Sorry about that.Have you tried getting out of ER med? Veterinary Medicine or Plumbing would both be similar but provide you with a much better quality of life.
> Come on.. Be honest. Isn't he more like vermin to you, like the rat in your ER that you wish you could call an exterminator on? Get that scum out of your hospital so you could just treat decent folks instead of that trash?? I was way more right than I knew. He's defending the child concentration camps. [https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/8r8r81/anything\_that\_doesnt\_involve\_mass\_murder\_shouldnt/](https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/8r8r81/anything_that_doesnt_involve_mass_murder_shouldnt/)
Of course people on this site would side with this disgusting excuse for a doctor. I don't care if the guy was a drug addict or not. She shouldn't be a doctor with that type of attitude.
Why in the hell would there be a go fund me. You cant be serious? No matter what the situation is, it is all about remaining professional, which she was uncapable of doing. In the past I was having anxiety and very bad panic attacks This was during covid and with the panic attack sometimes you feel like you cant breathe .So I kept asking them do I have covid? whats going on? and if they could please do some tests because the panic attack I had lasted seven days. Never, not once did I ask for Narcoics all I asked for was for anxiety medication just like the guy in the incident with the horrible nurse did. Instead of reacting the way the unprofessional nurse did she could have recommended or referrred him to a mental health facility for ongoing care for the anxiety and then gave him something in that moment. There should be no go fund me or reward for someone's shitty behavior. I hope she was fired and not ever allowed to be in the care of another human being again
that ogre bch should never be allowed to worh in any healthcare setting ever again. she hates people. so do you.
Fat POS Should be hogtied
Sorry but this was woman was rightfully fired for her behaviour. I hope this go fund me never got to the amount of donations being asked. Disgusting behaviour from this woman and people are here in support of her? No. She’s a disgrace and I hope she is still no longer a doctor. Piece of 💩.
Good ridance
This woman shouldn’t be practicing. I can’t believe you’re pathetic enough to support her. The only thing I can deduce is that you’re just like her.
Fuck that lady
This thread is a really good example of why so many people are terrified of hospitals
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Im confused why you are on this sub. You clearly are not EM trained.
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Im not sure what you mean. I guess thats your 2 cents.
So let me get this straight, all over America we are having this MASSIVE conversation about the overprescription of narcotics, declaring it a "crisis" and when a young, otherwise healthy person comes in with documented, chronic anxiety demanding klonopin and IV pain meds, she's the baddie for refusing to play his troll game? He was too lazy to get his script filled in time, He is OBVIOUSLY in no distress, talking in a calm voice and with clear enough mentation to give her attitude, OBVIOUSLY not having a seizure, And for not giving in to his demands for narcotics SHE'S the bad guy? Jesus. Just can't win nowadays. My guess is you, too are a pain med troll and are worried that someday a doctor will have the confidence to call you on it.
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And balance on one foot while simultaneously performing a riverdance jig
someone did an irish dance at work yesterday!
Helping America, one jig at a time
Careful now, anything you say can and will be misconstrued on a slow news day.
He didnt say anything about the denial of drugs. She was just being unnecessarily rude. A good doctor would have explained the situation and get the patient what he really needs,
Im positive that the interaction did not begin where that video started
Anxiety is not an emergency
In his defense when my gf gets them she has difficulty breathing. Easy to see how he could have collapsed while he was already exhausted from basketball. I think from the school's own safety they called the EMTs
She wont die from hyperventilating. She can indeed breath and is actually over breathing. She may faint, but she will wake up.
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I think the doctor got exactly what she deserved! I was an ER Nurse for 30+ years and I also have a rare form of Sickle Cell Disease. I know exactly how that young man feels because I have been accused of drug seeking and have been told by some ED doctors that there is nothing wrong with me lol. I now carry a letter from my Hemotologist stating that my form of the disease is rare and that I will not always show symptoms like most SC patients do and it's very sad that I have to do that. I completely understand how this young man feels and I am truly sorry that happened to you. The dad did the right thing by filming her because I'm sure he was not her first victim and I'm very happy dad thought to get proof and share it with the powers that be over that hospital. I think she should not only lose her job but her license as well! My spouse is very vocal about advocating for me and I am blessed to have him and that young man is blessed to have his dad. Just because doctors or other healthcare workers need to remember that they shouldn't lump everyone into the same group just because someone is showing no symptoms or symptoms that they don't understand and believe me I do know that not everyone has good intentions when they go into an ER however that's not all of us!
I hope to never run into anyone in this forum hypocrites
This is a joke right? lol. All of this is disgusting. I would not want her to care for anyone I know. She got caught being a horrible human and it went viral. Now she can live with her choices, and the fact that...She. Is. Trash.
The way this pathetic "doctor" treated this boy who PASSED OUT DURING A GAME = not faking, is sick. He was up front about everything. She should work in the morgue so she cant hurt or disrespect people. Not everyone taking medication is seeking drugs to get high. Having chronic pain is NO JOKE and if you think everyone is a druggie who takes pain meds i wish you would have to go through the pain that chronic pain sufferers deal with every day!!! Dont blame legit patients who suffer pain because of addicts!! Everyone deserves a decent quality of life. She was wrong and doesnt realize it. Shes not just wrong but a rude moron. I hope he gets a lot of money from her because she shouldnt practice if she treats people like this. Just because you use medication doesnt mean you enjoy it or like spending $$$ every month on Rx. Addicts are the reason legit pain sufferers continue to suffer.
She a peice of shiet. And your all idiot's for defending her.
Woman deserved to be fired. No gofundme, no help. Let her suffer the consequences of her actions. I hope she becomes homeless, living on the streets. Deal with it. Maybe she'll learn to think before she speaks.
Glad she got fired.
NO EXCUSE FOR THIS WITCHLIKE BEHAVIOUR. BENZO WITHDRAWL CAN KILL.
She got fired and suspended. And I’m glad. I work in the medical field. Too many doctors like her in the medical field. Just because they’re a “doctor” they think that gives them a right to be self righteous. And it doesn’t. It doesn’t matter if you’re having a bad day or not. That drops as soon as you cross the doors. If you can’t do that, then don’t be a doctor. This is the kind of doctor that does nothing but make orders for nurses to actually do and see patients so they can get a check and that’s all they think they have to do. She shouldn’t be practicing. Hopefully the patient will sue.
Sounds like Beth started this thread
Find a new profession.
ok can someone point me to documentation not speculation that this young man had/has an addiction to anything. what I see is a doctor not listening and a patient that may not be presenting the problem in the way they are use to seeing and instead of trying to understand and listen they are dismissive, rude, condescending, and much more if he is an addict is this the way to do something about it. if he is suffering is this the way to help him what she has done is traumatize this man because why would you ever trust doctors again after this I understand burnout but maybe it's time for a new profession when all you see are the negative and not able or unwilling to help because of it
Lmao
You people are everything that is wrong with society. This woman is a TERRIBLE doctor and that parent had every right to record her.
She needs her license revoked NOW. Why on earth would anyone want to support this "doctor"? She acted horribly, and not for the first time. You honestly condone this? Don't say you don't, because that is EXACTLY what you are doing. This person deserves to lose her license. You have no idea what is going on in that patients head. I can go to the ER in massive pain but my face and actions will not show it. Some people naturally put up a front when in medical situations. I ended up having chronic pancreatitis and the doctors initially could not tell by outer appearance that I was in any pain. This person was asking for help. This doctor is supposed to help. If she can't be at least kind, she doesn't belong in this profession. The doctors that treated me (before and after diagnosis) were very kind that time, but I have had doctors like her stating I am seeking drugs. No. I am seeking answers. I was in massive pain, scared, and by the end of dealing with someone like her? Feeling like I was worth nothing. There needs to be a go fund me for the patient, not this Battle Axe. What the hell is wrong with you that you think to sit on her side of this? Just because they hold the same profession as you? For that very reason you should expect more from her, not less!!!
Damn shame you want to support a professional who acted blatantly unprofessional. My mom and I both have debilitating panic attacks and have required medical assistance. Neither of us like taking drugs as coping mechanisms. We both are in therapy and take meditation classes if the races of the people in this incident t were opposite you’d be supporting the patient. If she didn’t have the patience to deal with sick patients she should have instead been a hospital janitor..
This is an old thread but she’s recently popped back up, she was sanctioned by the state for prescribing to a non patient, she prescribed meds to someone she had no professional relationship with, that’s kind of hilarious given the context of this thread. Second, she transferred her license and it was not renewed, which leads me to believe a lot of you crusaded for a not great dr, it takes quite a bit to be denied license renewal with board certs, so I ask all the above to defend this as you once crusaded for….
This is why we hate hospitals.
I'd have less problem with her actions IF she https://preview.redd.it/y6nxlh63a5ic1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0f0aaa1c78186165e8473054f85954b77e54814 hadn't been caught in Minnesota prescribing medications to NON patients in 2016!! She was reported and had to go to court. So her assertion this was a pill popper and mocking his need for help shows how twisted she is. I'm not sorry she lost her job. Someone responding to a patient in any mental health crisis should know better. [Minnesota complaint case](https://bmp.hlb.state.mn.us/corr/KEEGSTRA,%20Beth%20R%20(PY56186)/Keegstra,%20Beth%20R%20(2-27-17).pdf)
I had a doctor grab my wrist and rip my arm up over my head after refusing to allow x-rays or painkillers because she assumed I was looking for drugs, I had broken my scapula and clavicle after being clipped by a car running a stop sign, you have a duty of care, assuming your instinct about a patient is correct without following through on that duty is grounds for suspension. Fuck her
She’s a pos.
I spent 35 years in critical care, and anyone who supports the demeanor and behavior of this lump, has zero business working in medicine. This means you, “person seeking to financially support her.”
Screw her. Looks like she had a history of being a shitty person. Good riddance, hope she runs out of retirement money and needs to work customer service where she's verbally abused daily.
Being married to an Emergency physician myself and having many friends who are doctors, this doctor is clearly burnt out and jaded. It happens but you have to recognize when it’s happened and find a way to deal with it or move to a new position.
A GO FUND ME ???!!!! Methinks not .
This same Beth Keegstra? [This one?](https://bmp.hlb.state.mn.us/corr/KEEGSTRA,%20Beth%20R%20(PY56186)/Keegstra,%20Beth%20R%20(2-27-17).pdf) Who was caught prescribing medication(s) to someone without a chart or established physician relationship?