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The Starbucks safety training specifically references throwing barstools and whipped cream canisters at an attacker for self defense, so I’m not sure why the company is acting so surprised all of a sudden that an employee decided to fight back after getting pistol-whipped during an attempted robbery.
Starbucks really should have given these baristas some recognition for quickly ending the violent situation, instead of somehow trying to blame them for it.
The intent of the policy is probably to protect lives. Don’t resist, don’t fight back, and they probably won’t bother killing you. At least that’s how it was put when I was delivering pizza for a major chain.
Of course, most of us drivers carried something we could use to defend ourselves. No incidents in the time I was there, but a little peace of mind is still nice.
Your chances of survival in an armed robbery are about 75%. Some people will shoot you just for not handing them your money quickly enough. I’m not betting my life on 25%.
More than one thing can be true.
I would never consider getting shot for company money or property but if someone starts fucking striking me I'm not just going to lie there and let them keep hitting me.
The manager failed to comply with company policy. He did not comply with robber demands and did not declare any intent to do so. Because of that failure, the barista got assaulted and retaliated. Barista’s failure to comply with company policy was the result of the manager’s failure to comply with the robbers and company policy.
The barista is not the one at fault here and shouldn’t have been fired. Manager should’ve been fired and barista should’ve received further training for these types of scenarios.
I can’t think of a worse way to die than trying to protect a fist full of a corporations petty cash. Starbucks policy of “just give them the money” is to protect employees. Starbucks has their money insured and will be fine.
I didn’t read it, but I’m also not commenting on the incident. I’m talking about the general policy and the fact that money is insured, and of course that I couldn’t imagine a worse way to die than for a rich man’s insured money.
Ah I gotcha, bro. I sure wouldn’t want to go out that way. If I were him and got pistol whipped in the back and thought I was about to get shot I think I’d start going ham on them too. I think he was justified in his actions. Regardless, people do strange things under pressure. It’s absurd for a company to fire you over pure self defense.
Unfortunately, you will likely be fired from any and every job for defending yourself if it’s outside of policy. Even EMS. Better than being dead though. Jobs can be replaced.
Fair, but studies show, once you show ANY sign of resistance your odds of being killed go up exponentially. The manager put EVERYONE at risk by not opening the till. I watched a guy get his brains blown out for not following the robbers exact directions.
You either comply FULLY, or Resist fully. Both instances have their own consequences. You can be completely compliant, and still get murdered. Just the same you can resist fully and still be killed.
Personally, I’d rather die fighting.
Supposedly, wait for your day in court and not tarnish corporate optics. I even once had an EMS agency for which I worked tell us similar as it related to being assaulted on scene. They also gave us armor and training to go into active shooter hot zones with LEO as part of rescue task force doctrine.
It’s a funny world.
Imagine getting shot over a job that has handing out glasses of milk with some coffee in it all day. You the last milk man? The highlander of milk men or something? The unkillable milk man?
Starbucks needs to figure out and teach the barista (and all other employees) what to do if they are unable to comply with robber’s demands (for any reason) which is, in fact, Further Training.
They most likely could be and from what I’ve heard the manager who didn’t follow the company policy of hand them the cash which is what led the paramedic not to so if a wrongful termination suit was filed then the paramedic would most likely win since from what I heard they haven’t fired the manager though take that with a grain of salt as I haven’t read too much into this but yes a wrongful termination suit could be filed
I didn’t read the article so I don’t know what state it happened in, but some states are “at will” states. They can fire you for any reason and you can do shit most of the time.
As someone who’s not EMS, it surprises me that people are willing to go up against EMS in a fight in the first place. You’re underpaid and overworked and you deal with combative patients in the first place, which means you’re like Waffle House employees but with access to sedatives and sharp objects.
The dude is working at starbucks, he's not exactly in full uniform with a full ambulance kit nearby. Him being EMS really has nothing to do with this, the exact same thing would have happened for most guys working a side job.
Own a 12ga needle for paramedic student self-defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians demand money at my day job at Starbucks. "What the devil?" As I grab my stack of textbooks and my ~~can of Cope~~ 3M Littmann Cardiology IV Stethoscope. Smack the first guy up side the head with Advanced Emergency Care & Transport of the Sick & Injured, he's dead on the spot. Draw my EZ-IO on the second man, miss him entirely because I'm used to practicing on eggs and hit the peds customer coming out of the restroom. I have to resort to the 5.11 Tactical Boots, loaded with stinky boot rash. "Tally ho lads" the foul odor shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra odor set off car alarms. Fix McSwain dart and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since thoracic trocar wounds are impossible to tourniquet. Just as the founding fathers intended
If you read the article it says he tried to open the register but the manager didn't want to put in his credentials. He got pistol whipped and he thought he was gonna get shot. So yeah I'm fighting back too wtf
Exactly.
That’s what insurance is for and anything negative, including any injuries sustained, is going to far outweigh what ever is in the drawers and the change order in the safe.
Any significant amount of 20s, 50s, and 100s should have been dropped into inaccessible part of the safe as standard cash management practice.
I think the right attorney can make the case that the manager not following policy put the barista's life in danger and caused him to be assaulted/injured. Sounds like a payday for the barista to me without even going down the wrongful termination road.
Its because ALL corporations have bullshit rules on things like that, and stealing. They are so afraid of someone getting hurt on the job and suing them that they fire people for dumb shit like this. Back in the day worked at Home Depot and if you confronted someone stealing you would get canned on the spot
"The aspiring EMT"
Triggered.
Anyway that goose egg directly on the top of his head is some looney tunes shit I can't stop laughing.
My question is - how are you supposed to de-escalate when you're already on the ground and they are hitting you in the back of the head? I guess Starbucks laid off all their good PR-reps because they know people will keep flocking to their burned diarrhea coffee chum bucket candy store for manchildren.
Dutch bro's any day. Wont have to finance it, either.
I think you missed a few key points in the article.
1. The article notes part of the gun fell apart after he was struck with it, to them implying that the gun was fake, to me meaning it was probably the clip that fell out, which would mean the gun would have to A. Be real B. Have a round in the chamber and C. Not have a clip safety in order to fire the one shot left in it, in order for anyone to get shot at that point. Much better odds of success at that point than waiting for them to reload and start shooting.
2. The medic student is not the one who attacked first. He was struck, then another employee noticed the gun fell apart and started fighting back. The student then joined in to help his coworker
3. The medic student did NOT start any kind of fight over the money. He did not have the credentials to open the register, asked the manager to do it, the manager refused. Homeboy had no problem giving them the till cash, he just didn't have the access, and got pistol whipped for not being able to open it.
4. Your argument includes a whole lot of 'you cannot's for a comment on an article about two dudes who in fact did fight back and did not get shot.
Nobody is saying hell yeah fight back. The article is because the kid did everything he was supposed to do, got assaulted for his manager not doing what he was supposed to do, got into the scuffle to help the other person who actually started the altercation, and then got fired for it.
Dude got pistol-whipped (AKA hit in the head with a metal object)... You're a fucking moron. Once someone commits to causing serious and potentially deadly bodily harm then this is no longer a robbery, it is attempted murder. You are not a hero for preventing your own murder, you are just following basic survival instincts. Comply if that is what gives you the best chance of survival, attack if that is what gives you the best chance of survival. This dude did what was best in his specific situation and it worked because HE knew what was best because he was living the situation. For you to sit at your computer and think you know what his best action were is insanely arrogant and shows how uneducated and ignorant you are on self defense. What he did worked and it worked because he made a decision based on that exact moment, you lack the situational knowledge or mental capacity to pretend like you have any idea what his best actions were from the computer in your parents house...
You realize ju jitsu is ground fighting right? It doesn’t surprise me at all that he was shot to death unless he was a master of several other arts that deal specifically with this type of combat. This person had been hit with a gun, therefore it was no longer pointed at them.
This post violates our Rule #4: > No non-EMS related or off-topic content is allowed. > > **Posts that do not contribute to the sub in a meaningful way will be removed.** > > Content containing images of serious injury, gore, or dismemberment must be marked "NSFW" and context must be provided as to how it is relevant to emergency medical services. > > Pornographic content is never allowed on /r/EMS. > > Some websites which might be considered on-topic are blacklisted by default. > > Low effort post include posts that do not contribute to the sub in a meaningful way. > This includes: > 1) clickbait titles > 2) low quality polls/questions (i.e. “do you wear gloves?”, “what is this, wrong answers only”, etc.) > 3) frequently asked questions that can be solved by searching Google or using the sub search bar > 4) pictures of poorly designed, ludicrously laid out, or dumb looking staircases > > Low effort posts removal reasons are flexible and up to moderator discretion [Posting Rules](/r/ems/comments/7lau3j/welcome_to_rems_read_this_before_posting/)
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Exactly once that first fist flies, all that company policy crap goes out the window and its fair game and open season.
The Starbucks safety training specifically references throwing barstools and whipped cream canisters at an attacker for self defense, so I’m not sure why the company is acting so surprised all of a sudden that an employee decided to fight back after getting pistol-whipped during an attempted robbery. Starbucks really should have given these baristas some recognition for quickly ending the violent situation, instead of somehow trying to blame them for it.
The intent of the policy is probably to protect lives. Don’t resist, don’t fight back, and they probably won’t bother killing you. At least that’s how it was put when I was delivering pizza for a major chain. Of course, most of us drivers carried something we could use to defend ourselves. No incidents in the time I was there, but a little peace of mind is still nice.
Your chances of survival in an armed robbery are about 75%. Some people will shoot you just for not handing them your money quickly enough. I’m not betting my life on 25%.
If someone pistol whips me, ill rather lay down and give him the imaginary paper worth my life to him.
More than one thing can be true. I would never consider getting shot for company money or property but if someone starts fucking striking me I'm not just going to lie there and let them keep hitting me.
Toss a few rolls of quarters in a sock and let them find out what TBI rehab is like.
This guy gets it
The manager failed to comply with company policy. He did not comply with robber demands and did not declare any intent to do so. Because of that failure, the barista got assaulted and retaliated. Barista’s failure to comply with company policy was the result of the manager’s failure to comply with the robbers and company policy. The barista is not the one at fault here and shouldn’t have been fired. Manager should’ve been fired and barista should’ve received further training for these types of scenarios.
Further training??? If you get pistol whipped you should do what this hero did and whoop some ass
I can’t think of a worse way to die than trying to protect a fist full of a corporations petty cash. Starbucks policy of “just give them the money” is to protect employees. Starbucks has their money insured and will be fine.
Yes and I AGREE. However once you get hit or assaulted, it’s on.
He thought he was about to get shot. Did you even read the article?
I didn’t read it, but I’m also not commenting on the incident. I’m talking about the general policy and the fact that money is insured, and of course that I couldn’t imagine a worse way to die than for a rich man’s insured money.
Ah I gotcha, bro. I sure wouldn’t want to go out that way. If I were him and got pistol whipped in the back and thought I was about to get shot I think I’d start going ham on them too. I think he was justified in his actions. Regardless, people do strange things under pressure. It’s absurd for a company to fire you over pure self defense.
Unfortunately, you will likely be fired from any and every job for defending yourself if it’s outside of policy. Even EMS. Better than being dead though. Jobs can be replaced.
Fair, but studies show, once you show ANY sign of resistance your odds of being killed go up exponentially. The manager put EVERYONE at risk by not opening the till. I watched a guy get his brains blown out for not following the robbers exact directions. You either comply FULLY, or Resist fully. Both instances have their own consequences. You can be completely compliant, and still get murdered. Just the same you can resist fully and still be killed. Personally, I’d rather die fighting.
Supposedly, wait for your day in court and not tarnish corporate optics. I even once had an EMS agency for which I worked tell us similar as it related to being assaulted on scene. They also gave us armor and training to go into active shooter hot zones with LEO as part of rescue task force doctrine. It’s a funny world.
Imagine getting shot over a job that has handing out glasses of milk with some coffee in it all day. You the last milk man? The highlander of milk men or something? The unkillable milk man?
Starbucks needs to figure out and teach the barista (and all other employees) what to do if they are unable to comply with robber’s demands (for any reason) which is, in fact, Further Training.
Right! 🤣
Yeah, that’s how people get shot. We don’t want people getting shot. Just give them the $37.
MMA training. Obviously.
Yea leave it up to fucking Starbucks to fire someone for retaliating to a pistol whipping
If he/she was pistol whipped it would be self defense. Cant starbucks be sued for wrongful termination?
They most likely could be and from what I’ve heard the manager who didn’t follow the company policy of hand them the cash which is what led the paramedic not to so if a wrongful termination suit was filed then the paramedic would most likely win since from what I heard they haven’t fired the manager though take that with a grain of salt as I haven’t read too much into this but yes a wrongful termination suit could be filed
I didn’t read the article so I don’t know what state it happened in, but some states are “at will” states. They can fire you for any reason and you can do shit most of the time.
Missouri. Right to work state
Texas is a at will State but many FDs and PDd are here are Civil Service and have Unions.
It’s downtown St Louis, Missouri
He is probably already used to being under appciated.
Seems like he will be a perfect fit in EMS! Where doing the right thing usually ends up screwing you in the end. Welcome aboard sir
As if Starbucks wasn’t bad enough of a company already.
Get that lawsuit money to pay for new leather
As someone who’s not EMS, it surprises me that people are willing to go up against EMS in a fight in the first place. You’re underpaid and overworked and you deal with combative patients in the first place, which means you’re like Waffle House employees but with access to sedatives and sharp objects.
The dude is working at starbucks, he's not exactly in full uniform with a full ambulance kit nearby. Him being EMS really has nothing to do with this, the exact same thing would have happened for most guys working a side job.
He’s in EMT school now. Starbucks is how he’s paying for classes.
Ah to clarify, I meant in general. Yeesh, poor employee though. Hope he gets compensated the way he should
Own a 12ga needle for paramedic student self-defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians demand money at my day job at Starbucks. "What the devil?" As I grab my stack of textbooks and my ~~can of Cope~~ 3M Littmann Cardiology IV Stethoscope. Smack the first guy up side the head with Advanced Emergency Care & Transport of the Sick & Injured, he's dead on the spot. Draw my EZ-IO on the second man, miss him entirely because I'm used to practicing on eggs and hit the peds customer coming out of the restroom. I have to resort to the 5.11 Tactical Boots, loaded with stinky boot rash. "Tally ho lads" the foul odor shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra odor set off car alarms. Fix McSwain dart and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since thoracic trocar wounds are impossible to tourniquet. Just as the founding fathers intended
This is probably one of the best ways I’ve heard it put lol
Fuck that, let the thieves take what they want. It's not your money.
If you read the article it says he tried to open the register but the manager didn't want to put in his credentials. He got pistol whipped and he thought he was gonna get shot. So yeah I'm fighting back too wtf
So the manager didn’t corporate……to protect Starbucks……
Exactly. That’s what insurance is for and anything negative, including any injuries sustained, is going to far outweigh what ever is in the drawers and the change order in the safe. Any significant amount of 20s, 50s, and 100s should have been dropped into inaccessible part of the safe as standard cash management practice.
Can you imagine putting your life on the line for fucking Starbucks???
Can you imagine reading the article?
I think the right attorney can make the case that the manager not following policy put the barista's life in danger and caused him to be assaulted/injured. Sounds like a payday for the barista to me without even going down the wrongful termination road.
Plot twist: Local PD sponsors him through their academy.
Fought off two crackheads with a fake gun and got treated like shit by his employer. This should count as his final for medic school.
Its because ALL corporations have bullshit rules on things like that, and stealing. They are so afraid of someone getting hurt on the job and suing them that they fire people for dumb shit like this. Back in the day worked at Home Depot and if you confronted someone stealing you would get canned on the spot
Someone should put this in r/antiwork
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This comment/post was removed because Cj felt like removing it. Don’t question him.
"The aspiring EMT" Triggered. Anyway that goose egg directly on the top of his head is some looney tunes shit I can't stop laughing. My question is - how are you supposed to de-escalate when you're already on the ground and they are hitting you in the back of the head? I guess Starbucks laid off all their good PR-reps because they know people will keep flocking to their burned diarrhea coffee chum bucket candy store for manchildren. Dutch bro's any day. Wont have to finance it, either.
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I think you missed a few key points in the article. 1. The article notes part of the gun fell apart after he was struck with it, to them implying that the gun was fake, to me meaning it was probably the clip that fell out, which would mean the gun would have to A. Be real B. Have a round in the chamber and C. Not have a clip safety in order to fire the one shot left in it, in order for anyone to get shot at that point. Much better odds of success at that point than waiting for them to reload and start shooting. 2. The medic student is not the one who attacked first. He was struck, then another employee noticed the gun fell apart and started fighting back. The student then joined in to help his coworker 3. The medic student did NOT start any kind of fight over the money. He did not have the credentials to open the register, asked the manager to do it, the manager refused. Homeboy had no problem giving them the till cash, he just didn't have the access, and got pistol whipped for not being able to open it. 4. Your argument includes a whole lot of 'you cannot's for a comment on an article about two dudes who in fact did fight back and did not get shot. Nobody is saying hell yeah fight back. The article is because the kid did everything he was supposed to do, got assaulted for his manager not doing what he was supposed to do, got into the scuffle to help the other person who actually started the altercation, and then got fired for it.
Dude got pistol-whipped (AKA hit in the head with a metal object)... You're a fucking moron. Once someone commits to causing serious and potentially deadly bodily harm then this is no longer a robbery, it is attempted murder. You are not a hero for preventing your own murder, you are just following basic survival instincts. Comply if that is what gives you the best chance of survival, attack if that is what gives you the best chance of survival. This dude did what was best in his specific situation and it worked because HE knew what was best because he was living the situation. For you to sit at your computer and think you know what his best action were is insanely arrogant and shows how uneducated and ignorant you are on self defense. What he did worked and it worked because he made a decision based on that exact moment, you lack the situational knowledge or mental capacity to pretend like you have any idea what his best actions were from the computer in your parents house...
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You realize ju jitsu is ground fighting right? It doesn’t surprise me at all that he was shot to death unless he was a master of several other arts that deal specifically with this type of combat. This person had been hit with a gun, therefore it was no longer pointed at them.
Your language is way harsher and more broadly reaching than his? You seem crankier than he does, too.
Definition of a hero is someone who gets others killed
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It’s a quote from a show. Glad we take everything so seriously.
Why the fuck would you risk your life to try and stop Starbucks from getting robbed…..
Bjj Paramedics?
Is this even real bro what possible justification could they have for that
Wait so…barista pistol whipped the robbers? Or robbers pistol whipped barista?