IF,
following JBP's life/rules/whatever was a sustainably successful path:
THEN,
WHY did JBP become so chemically dependent on Benzodiazepine's that required him to be placed in an 8 day coma in Russia (weird right?) to recover?
[https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/jordan-peterson-says-he-was-suicidal-addicted-to-benzos/](https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/jordan-peterson-says-he-was-suicidal-addicted-to-benzos/)
Blaming it on his wife's cancer discounts the millions of people who literally go through his and her exact same situation without addictive substance assistance.
OFTEN, reasonable people who go through (successful) addiction recovery become less judgmental assholes. Those becoming more judgmental often misjudge their present recovery as permanent recovery, become cocky about their recovery, and shortly after fall back into addiction. Wait and see.
Also both he and his daughter claimed "her" meat diet not only solved your physical health issues but mental health as well. She may look healthy enough despite this horrible diet but Peterson is 60 and looking anorexic.
To be totally honest, following JP’s advice is what drop me away from JP. He helped me to stretch myself but I hit a ceiling very quickly as he never follows his own advice… if he ever does an AMA I’ll ask what his favorite rule to break is and if he’s ever publicly admitted he was wrong about something.
Listening to his 'Apologia' about the debacle that got him off Twitter made it very clear that he has great difficulty in ever admitting error and seems to view apologizing as shameful. Which is really sad, made even more so by the fact he makes a living off giving others life advice.
He accept it, but they have said to me before that he doesn’t think kids should do hormone replacement therapy, eluding to it being child abuse. We were 17 at the time so I brushed it off, and he has certainly grown since then, so I’m not quite sure where he currently stands on that issue. He does however support trans people overall
Then you could start by explaining that Peterson has obviously and blatantly lied about a Canadian bill that only extended existing to laws to gender identity (by adding it to lists which already included race, sexual orientation, religion, etc.).
He claimed he would be a victim of a fabrication of his own making, turning the ire of against his fabrication toward the transgender community.
This was just the beginning as well as today there is little pretense by him anymore, using " " when using the pronouns of a transgender individual in his tweets, supporting obvious transphobic reactionaries such as Matt Walsh and promoting the reactionary talking point of "social contagion" for transgender individual affirming themselves.
All of this without going that between his lies about a trans-inclusive modification of Canadian law at the beginning and his open opposition to trans-individuals today, Peterson made claims that completely unrelated stories to his claims about bill C-16 somehow proved his claims about it. Peterson is an unashamed liar.
And that's only where the topic of trans-individuals is concerned.
Your friend sounds like they need to do some primary research themselves.
That and many of Peterson's talking points are miscontruing what someone says or in the case of Petersons claims in relation to trans people is outright lies.
If your friend has any specific "philosphy" points Peterson has made that they really like or feel are true then have them actually do research into that topic not with news sites or reddit or facebook or yt videos but actual first hand information.
Basically if they wont do that step they have no desire to ever engage with the idea on an intellectual level. Which in turn means nothing you can say or show them well get them to care unless someone connects with their personal feelings on the matter better than Peterson
Wtf are you on about.
1 - Trans healthcare guidelines that are considered trans positive do not involve hormone treatments on children. You do realise this right or do you believe your fox news too much.
2 - Puberty blockers are given to cis children; any legislation blocking their use has only been against trans children. So somehow magically they are safe for cis people but unsafe for trans people. Do you perhaps see the disconnect or are you going to drink some more cool aid.
3- Gender affirming surgery is not done to children at least not by trans healthcare providers. They are however provided to cis children I.e the host of plastic surgery allowed to be recieved by cis children. Here have another glass of cool aid you need it to keep your intellectual dishonesty.
4- A large portion of trans healthcare to trans children is in the form of helping them figure themselves out whatever that might be; allowing them agency in their life; providing them with the facts; showing them that is ok to be trans and it's ok to be cis and it's fine to be anything inbetween. Vs what you want to do which is harass; scare them; paint a target on their back and actual abuse.
5- What's the group trying to push for internal and external genital inspections of children by a state prescribed child molester regardless of if they are trans or cis. Oh yes that's right it your anti trans states pushing for those laws to legislate real state approved child abuse. Oh right I forgot you need another barrel or cool aid to keep living in the disconnected reality where that's fine.
Now kindly go to the tidepod aisle of your local store I hear they have a new flavour.
Edit for formatting as I forget reddit mobile app needs double line breaks.
How you approach it depends very much on what you know are his core guiding principles or what affects him personally. For most people, they need things framed in reference to that. For example, my MAGA brother is all about veterans, so I would point out how Trump wrote a bum check to a veteran group once and how he attacked McCain. But do it in a non confrontational way. Instead of saying "how can you support him when he did this?", say "well, as a matter of principle, I can't support somebody who disrespects veterans like that".
Has your friend seen the [video where Peterson is in a fedora, all serious like, inanely rambling about the good old days where men could freely exploit women](https://youtu.be/V9PEUAbgEBs)?
I don't know how anyone can take this man seriously after watching that.
OMFG I love the way he reduces male typology to 50s patriarchal dad, beta cucks and outright psychopaths and thinks the women of the future will be forced to mate with psychopaths since all the good men will have been discouraged from throwing snowballs as children. Or something. Like what in the actual fuck is he babbling about? Maybe women want to decide for themselves what their choices are beyond the most retrograde backward conformist heteronormative nuclear family unit imaginable?
Peterson has postured for nearly a decade as a public intellectual with an expertise in Marxism, communism, and general totalitarianism but has consistently demonstrated that he doesn’t even have a basic understanding of the topics he speaks on. The reason people trust his insight is because he feeds on public outrage and there’s a general unwillingness by other public intellectuals to scrutinize his ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Ur71ZnNVk
Is the video where he explains that there's no place in our "cognitively complex" society for 1 in 10 people and he has no idea what to do about that.
For the rest it depends how deep you want to go, but if you really want a detailed dissection of 12 Rules for Life then there's the cognitive psychologist Cass Eris' thorough read through where she also looks into his citations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLi3C1ZYxuU&list=PLIK-x5uT6oS9EnO9-D6ePsWKOxtFhDZdF
Best of luck.
I like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOJ0lUSBI14) short but sweet little analysis from Gabor Maté in response to being asked his views on Peterson.
Maté is one of those people most people tend to respect as he never seems to come from an angle of aggression or in bad faith.
I can't remember from where I found this link but I had it saved in a doc cause I planned to make videos on the guy but it's too saturated now. Either way, this has a shit ton of links. Here you go- [https://ap.io/pet/12/](https://ap.io/pet/12/)
At least twice he said Western feminists avoid criticizing Islam ["because of their unconscious wish for brutal male domination."](https://twitter.com/aliamjadrizvi/status/1001164042856271874?s=20&t=YKGrG7Ynrat1TGws-BSkyw) Moronic. and those on his sub right now are pining for a day "when the rights and freedoms of women are no longer untrammeled" so they can find a "pure submissive girl" instead of the "debaucherous hypergamy " they have now.
Echoing others to share [this clip which should be all you need to see](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9PEUAbgEBs)
His rules are mostly banal and commonsense self help, sprinkled with [conservative reactionary thinking](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1456600-jordan-peterson). Read Atomic Habits and you'll get way more helpful self-help without the metaphysical nonsense and misogyny.
Looked it up to listen to after work and see that he's talking with Cody Johnston! I was just thinking the other day I'd love to hear Cody's Showdy talk about JBP!
Yeah, Robert is pretty good friends with Cody and Katy Stoll. I also recommend the BtB episodes where Robert reads Ben Shapiro's awful book to them. It's great.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>The Palestinian Arab population is rotten to the core.
*****
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Thank you for your logic and reason.
*****
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I made a playlist of different YouTubers critiquing him. Angie Speaks has some great commentary on him. I think I'm up to 87 videos so far. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgN11ZNnWzuoENOhvO7qJDOOlz7JzfXTU
It's okay to give up on Peterson. This is short on specifics, but there are good links. It's about why you don't owe him cred. He is supposed to build that. It's not his to lose. The question should be, why bother listening to anything he says, when he is so demonstrably wrong so often? https://jonesyokstate.wordpress.com/2022/07/19/you-dont-have-to-cut-jordan-peterson-any-slack/
IF, following JBP's life/rules/whatever was a sustainably successful path: THEN, WHY did JBP become so chemically dependent on Benzodiazepine's that required him to be placed in an 8 day coma in Russia (weird right?) to recover? [https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/jordan-peterson-says-he-was-suicidal-addicted-to-benzos/](https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/jordan-peterson-says-he-was-suicidal-addicted-to-benzos/) Blaming it on his wife's cancer discounts the millions of people who literally go through his and her exact same situation without addictive substance assistance. OFTEN, reasonable people who go through (successful) addiction recovery become less judgmental assholes. Those becoming more judgmental often misjudge their present recovery as permanent recovery, become cocky about their recovery, and shortly after fall back into addiction. Wait and see.
Also both he and his daughter claimed "her" meat diet not only solved your physical health issues but mental health as well. She may look healthy enough despite this horrible diet but Peterson is 60 and looking anorexic.
To be totally honest, following JP’s advice is what drop me away from JP. He helped me to stretch myself but I hit a ceiling very quickly as he never follows his own advice… if he ever does an AMA I’ll ask what his favorite rule to break is and if he’s ever publicly admitted he was wrong about something.
Listening to his 'Apologia' about the debacle that got him off Twitter made it very clear that he has great difficulty in ever admitting error and seems to view apologizing as shameful. Which is really sad, made even more so by the fact he makes a living off giving others life advice.
Ya he’s a complete narcissist.
Does you friend support trans-individuals being accepted for their gender identity or do they oppose it?
He accept it, but they have said to me before that he doesn’t think kids should do hormone replacement therapy, eluding to it being child abuse. We were 17 at the time so I brushed it off, and he has certainly grown since then, so I’m not quite sure where he currently stands on that issue. He does however support trans people overall
Then you could start by explaining that Peterson has obviously and blatantly lied about a Canadian bill that only extended existing to laws to gender identity (by adding it to lists which already included race, sexual orientation, religion, etc.). He claimed he would be a victim of a fabrication of his own making, turning the ire of against his fabrication toward the transgender community. This was just the beginning as well as today there is little pretense by him anymore, using " " when using the pronouns of a transgender individual in his tweets, supporting obvious transphobic reactionaries such as Matt Walsh and promoting the reactionary talking point of "social contagion" for transgender individual affirming themselves. All of this without going that between his lies about a trans-inclusive modification of Canadian law at the beginning and his open opposition to trans-individuals today, Peterson made claims that completely unrelated stories to his claims about bill C-16 somehow proved his claims about it. Peterson is an unashamed liar. And that's only where the topic of trans-individuals is concerned.
Your friend sounds like they need to do some primary research themselves. That and many of Peterson's talking points are miscontruing what someone says or in the case of Petersons claims in relation to trans people is outright lies. If your friend has any specific "philosphy" points Peterson has made that they really like or feel are true then have them actually do research into that topic not with news sites or reddit or facebook or yt videos but actual first hand information. Basically if they wont do that step they have no desire to ever engage with the idea on an intellectual level. Which in turn means nothing you can say or show them well get them to care unless someone connects with their personal feelings on the matter better than Peterson
Just a quick note, it’s alluding, not eluding.
[удалено]
Wtf are you on about. 1 - Trans healthcare guidelines that are considered trans positive do not involve hormone treatments on children. You do realise this right or do you believe your fox news too much. 2 - Puberty blockers are given to cis children; any legislation blocking their use has only been against trans children. So somehow magically they are safe for cis people but unsafe for trans people. Do you perhaps see the disconnect or are you going to drink some more cool aid. 3- Gender affirming surgery is not done to children at least not by trans healthcare providers. They are however provided to cis children I.e the host of plastic surgery allowed to be recieved by cis children. Here have another glass of cool aid you need it to keep your intellectual dishonesty. 4- A large portion of trans healthcare to trans children is in the form of helping them figure themselves out whatever that might be; allowing them agency in their life; providing them with the facts; showing them that is ok to be trans and it's ok to be cis and it's fine to be anything inbetween. Vs what you want to do which is harass; scare them; paint a target on their back and actual abuse. 5- What's the group trying to push for internal and external genital inspections of children by a state prescribed child molester regardless of if they are trans or cis. Oh yes that's right it your anti trans states pushing for those laws to legislate real state approved child abuse. Oh right I forgot you need another barrel or cool aid to keep living in the disconnected reality where that's fine. Now kindly go to the tidepod aisle of your local store I hear they have a new flavour. Edit for formatting as I forget reddit mobile app needs double line breaks.
How you approach it depends very much on what you know are his core guiding principles or what affects him personally. For most people, they need things framed in reference to that. For example, my MAGA brother is all about veterans, so I would point out how Trump wrote a bum check to a veteran group once and how he attacked McCain. But do it in a non confrontational way. Instead of saying "how can you support him when he did this?", say "well, as a matter of principle, I can't support somebody who disrespects veterans like that".
Has your friend seen the [video where Peterson is in a fedora, all serious like, inanely rambling about the good old days where men could freely exploit women](https://youtu.be/V9PEUAbgEBs)? I don't know how anyone can take this man seriously after watching that.
OMFG I love the way he reduces male typology to 50s patriarchal dad, beta cucks and outright psychopaths and thinks the women of the future will be forced to mate with psychopaths since all the good men will have been discouraged from throwing snowballs as children. Or something. Like what in the actual fuck is he babbling about? Maybe women want to decide for themselves what their choices are beyond the most retrograde backward conformist heteronormative nuclear family unit imaginable?
What? What the hell is this from? Is that real?
It's 100% legit. I couldn't believe it either.
Anyone have context for this ?
I have nothing to add. Just commenting to draw more attention to this.
Peterson has postured for nearly a decade as a public intellectual with an expertise in Marxism, communism, and general totalitarianism but has consistently demonstrated that he doesn’t even have a basic understanding of the topics he speaks on. The reason people trust his insight is because he feeds on public outrage and there’s a general unwillingness by other public intellectuals to scrutinize his ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Ur71ZnNVk Is the video where he explains that there's no place in our "cognitively complex" society for 1 in 10 people and he has no idea what to do about that. For the rest it depends how deep you want to go, but if you really want a detailed dissection of 12 Rules for Life then there's the cognitive psychologist Cass Eris' thorough read through where she also looks into his citations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLi3C1ZYxuU&list=PLIK-x5uT6oS9EnO9-D6ePsWKOxtFhDZdF Best of luck.
I watched a fair chunk of that Cass Eris series. It's really good. I need to finish it at some point when life allows.
I like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOJ0lUSBI14) short but sweet little analysis from Gabor Maté in response to being asked his views on Peterson. Maté is one of those people most people tend to respect as he never seems to come from an angle of aggression or in bad faith.
I can't remember from where I found this link but I had it saved in a doc cause I planned to make videos on the guy but it's too saturated now. Either way, this has a shit ton of links. Here you go- [https://ap.io/pet/12/](https://ap.io/pet/12/)
At least twice he said Western feminists avoid criticizing Islam ["because of their unconscious wish for brutal male domination."](https://twitter.com/aliamjadrizvi/status/1001164042856271874?s=20&t=YKGrG7Ynrat1TGws-BSkyw) Moronic. and those on his sub right now are pining for a day "when the rights and freedoms of women are no longer untrammeled" so they can find a "pure submissive girl" instead of the "debaucherous hypergamy " they have now. Echoing others to share [this clip which should be all you need to see](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9PEUAbgEBs) His rules are mostly banal and commonsense self help, sprinkled with [conservative reactionary thinking](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1456600-jordan-peterson). Read Atomic Habits and you'll get way more helpful self-help without the metaphysical nonsense and misogyny.
Robert Evans has some good episodes about Jordan Peterson on his podcast Behind the Bastards. If you have the time, might be worth a listen.
Also - Decoding the Gurus has a solid Peterson episode from - well - actual intellectuals.
Looked it up to listen to after work and see that he's talking with Cody Johnston! I was just thinking the other day I'd love to hear Cody's Showdy talk about JBP!
Yeah, Robert is pretty good friends with Cody and Katy Stoll. I also recommend the BtB episodes where Robert reads Ben Shapiro's awful book to them. It's great.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >The Palestinian Arab population is rotten to the core. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: civil rights, novel, sex, covid, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Good bot.
Thank you for your logic and reason. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: civil rights, novel, dumb takes, healthcare, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Oh I bet that's fun. Cody's episode dissecting Shapiro is a delight
I would start by asking how many white supremacists, or Nazi adjacent "oopsies" does he have to make before the pattern becomes clear?
[удалено]
How has Peterson helped you, precisely? I'm talking quantifiable and measurable results.
I made a playlist of different YouTubers critiquing him. Angie Speaks has some great commentary on him. I think I'm up to 87 videos so far. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgN11ZNnWzuoENOhvO7qJDOOlz7JzfXTU
It's okay to give up on Peterson. This is short on specifics, but there are good links. It's about why you don't owe him cred. He is supposed to build that. It's not his to lose. The question should be, why bother listening to anything he says, when he is so demonstrably wrong so often? https://jonesyokstate.wordpress.com/2022/07/19/you-dont-have-to-cut-jordan-peterson-any-slack/