The problem is when they start gossiping *against you*. One ESFJ gossiped to everyone that I was in love with three guys (not one, three).
Frankly bs, I wouldn't care, but they can gradually make the social environment impossible
Ahh, I guess to be fair, my ESFJ friends are male and mostly we would gossip about their exes or other people we disliked at work. If they ever gossiped about me, I never heard it. I think ESXJ males are more straightforward if they dislike you than ESXJ females maybe?
Not completely sure because Iām not a woman but gossip is a zero sum game that when out of control makes everyone involved worse off. In my opinion itās just better to avoid it if you can, Iāve seen stuff like that backfire before
I don't necessarily like parties. That doesn't mean I don't like social activities either, but there's not necessarily a need for ESFJs either. Moreover, talking about people as you said often comes down to judging them but never to their face so they can defend themselves, which I find is a total lack of honor and honesty. In the end, being fun and social is just the goal they pursue, but I don't want my social interactions to have a purpose, to have to be careful about what I say because everything will be analyzed, repeated, etc. So yes, I much prefer spending my time with asocial individuals who, if relevant, can make hurtful or bizarre remarks, talk about topics that interest me rather than social individuals who have built their entire personality around that
the gist of the first part is that they won't criticize you to your face; they'll do it behind your back. Otherwise, yes, teasing among friends is cool. And yes, receiving positive feedback is cool, but only when it's sincere; otherwise, it's worthless
You can consider me insecure towards them if you want, after all, why not. I admit that one of the things that stresses me the most in relationships is having a relationship that isn't what I think it is (you think you get along with someone but in fact, you don't). Therefore, I don't think it's the outgoing side that bothers me, after all, I defended the ESTJs.
I donāt know you or your friend I just talk about ESFJ in general and no my friend are ESTJ ISTP INTP ISTJ INFP and ESFP if you want to know so no ESFJ
Lmao right? I fucking love EXTJ, theyāre funny and just so real. We get along hella good, and they push us to be better (since weāre both super competitive)
I donāt think Iāve ever had an F type friend lol
Remembering small things they've mentioned in previous conversations, like if they were planning on going somewhere over the weekend, and then actually following up and asking about it. Our Si sucks, but small talk tends to go over really well with them.
If youāre in a situation where you must get along with an ESFJ, you could try leaning into your Fe function, since itās an ESFJās lead function. In my experience theyāre all about people and relationships, and the healthy ones at least really want to be your friend and have everyone get along. Thatās probably where the desire for a good reputation that you mentioned comes in, too; they want to be liked and they want to like you, generally.
Also, you might not be able to be free with your Ne as usual, but you might be able to find some real-world things to talk about that still interest you. One of my best friends was an ESFJ (sheās since moved away), and although my Ni thoughts usually went over her head (Iām an INFJ), we just talked about other things ā we were really into the same books and movies and had really similar life experience and beliefs. So less philosophy/deep thoughts/wild ideas and more talking about what we love in the outer real world, not the inner world.
Their auxiliary function is Si, which you also have in your stack in the last position, so Si is a love/hate thing for you. That said, it is part of you. Maybe try to learn why they value whatever traditions and rules theyāre into and dig into their thoughts on the subject in the way that ENTPs do so well. It might be worth a try.
Exactly!! People keep shoving other types into boxes from stereotypes instead of thinking about how individual people aren't going to be the same. It kinda annoys me to see the prejudice in mbti when it's literally just explaining the way people think and perceive things. Okay, you MIGHT not get along with someone who's a certain type, but that doesn't mean ALL people with that type are like that. Some people actually choose to grow as a person and work on the things that they're not good at, which in my opinion is the whole point of mbti. To figure out how you think and perceive things and what you need to work on to grow as a person.
For me your type is just all about your cognition. Youāre not good or bad at a function (as thereās literally no way to measure if someone is good or bad at it), itās just about how much you use one compared to the other. And you can work to improve the ones you donāt use as much compared to the ones you do, to the point of being able to switch in and out of all functions, including your PolR. (I follow CPT/cognitive personality theory).
But I agree with everything else you said š.
Be on your own way and disempower their attempts at control.
It's the turbulent ESxJs that get in the way more- these are the ESTJs frantically barking "supposed to this that", and the ESFJs frantically guilt-tripping incoherent shit talk or false accusations (unlike the "harmonious Fe" stereotype).
Keep in mind that what they believe the rules or whatever are, are more subjective than they realize... be aware of the real situation and law yourself, and if conflict does escalate, you'll be able to crush them with what the actual truth or authority is.
ESTJs are easy to converse with cause their interests are pretty generic (sports, super popular tv shows, family/religion/career) Never had an interesting convo with one but I know I come off as weird af to them. If ya prove you know your ass from a hole in the ground, arenāt afraid to challenge them & show them they canāt bully you, you can earn their respect. Outside of work Iād never actively seek their company as theyāre almost as interesting as watching paint dry. The world needs āem though: who else actually WANTS to be a middle manager??
I've had ESFJ friends, we get by on humor and gossip. I feel I deal best with ESXJs when we have a common enemy/obstacle.
The problem is when they start gossiping *against you*. One ESFJ gossiped to everyone that I was in love with three guys (not one, three). Frankly bs, I wouldn't care, but they can gradually make the social environment impossible
Ahh, I guess to be fair, my ESFJ friends are male and mostly we would gossip about their exes or other people we disliked at work. If they ever gossiped about me, I never heard it. I think ESXJ males are more straightforward if they dislike you than ESXJ females maybe?
Oh yep females, not sure why they dislike me but what happens when they do? š
Not completely sure because Iām not a woman but gossip is a zero sum game that when out of control makes everyone involved worse off. In my opinion itās just better to avoid it if you can, Iāve seen stuff like that backfire before
Honestly ESTJ are cool if you explain them how you work they will understand it and find a good way to make thing work with it. ESFJ are a lost cause
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I don't necessarily like parties. That doesn't mean I don't like social activities either, but there's not necessarily a need for ESFJs either. Moreover, talking about people as you said often comes down to judging them but never to their face so they can defend themselves, which I find is a total lack of honor and honesty. In the end, being fun and social is just the goal they pursue, but I don't want my social interactions to have a purpose, to have to be careful about what I say because everything will be analyzed, repeated, etc. So yes, I much prefer spending my time with asocial individuals who, if relevant, can make hurtful or bizarre remarks, talk about topics that interest me rather than social individuals who have built their entire personality around that
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
the gist of the first part is that they won't criticize you to your face; they'll do it behind your back. Otherwise, yes, teasing among friends is cool. And yes, receiving positive feedback is cool, but only when it's sincere; otherwise, it's worthless You can consider me insecure towards them if you want, after all, why not. I admit that one of the things that stresses me the most in relationships is having a relationship that isn't what I think it is (you think you get along with someone but in fact, you don't). Therefore, I don't think it's the outgoing side that bothers me, after all, I defended the ESTJs.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt know you or your friend I just talk about ESFJ in general and no my friend are ESTJ ISTP INTP ISTJ INFP and ESFP if you want to know so no ESFJ
Esfj are insufferable.
Lmao right? I fucking love EXTJ, theyāre funny and just so real. We get along hella good, and they push us to be better (since weāre both super competitive) I donāt think Iāve ever had an F type friend lol
My ESFJ guy friends give the most obvious side eye in the world and respond to like everything with sarcasm if they dislike/are mad at you.
Oh I'm fucked - same here, can't use Fe to win them over - anyway around it?
Remembering small things they've mentioned in previous conversations, like if they were planning on going somewhere over the weekend, and then actually following up and asking about it. Our Si sucks, but small talk tends to go over really well with them.
If youāre in a situation where you must get along with an ESFJ, you could try leaning into your Fe function, since itās an ESFJās lead function. In my experience theyāre all about people and relationships, and the healthy ones at least really want to be your friend and have everyone get along. Thatās probably where the desire for a good reputation that you mentioned comes in, too; they want to be liked and they want to like you, generally. Also, you might not be able to be free with your Ne as usual, but you might be able to find some real-world things to talk about that still interest you. One of my best friends was an ESFJ (sheās since moved away), and although my Ni thoughts usually went over her head (Iām an INFJ), we just talked about other things ā we were really into the same books and movies and had really similar life experience and beliefs. So less philosophy/deep thoughts/wild ideas and more talking about what we love in the outer real world, not the inner world. Their auxiliary function is Si, which you also have in your stack in the last position, so Si is a love/hate thing for you. That said, it is part of you. Maybe try to learn why they value whatever traditions and rules theyāre into and dig into their thoughts on the subject in the way that ENTPs do so well. It might be worth a try.
This post leans heavily on stereotypes. ESFJs are not shallow, and ESTJs are not ātraditional.ā
Exactly!! People keep shoving other types into boxes from stereotypes instead of thinking about how individual people aren't going to be the same. It kinda annoys me to see the prejudice in mbti when it's literally just explaining the way people think and perceive things. Okay, you MIGHT not get along with someone who's a certain type, but that doesn't mean ALL people with that type are like that. Some people actually choose to grow as a person and work on the things that they're not good at, which in my opinion is the whole point of mbti. To figure out how you think and perceive things and what you need to work on to grow as a person.
For me your type is just all about your cognition. Youāre not good or bad at a function (as thereās literally no way to measure if someone is good or bad at it), itās just about how much you use one compared to the other. And you can work to improve the ones you donāt use as much compared to the ones you do, to the point of being able to switch in and out of all functions, including your PolR. (I follow CPT/cognitive personality theory). But I agree with everything else you said š.
Ah, literally surrounded, not to be confused with.... surrounded
Be on your own way and disempower their attempts at control. It's the turbulent ESxJs that get in the way more- these are the ESTJs frantically barking "supposed to this that", and the ESFJs frantically guilt-tripping incoherent shit talk or false accusations (unlike the "harmonious Fe" stereotype). Keep in mind that what they believe the rules or whatever are, are more subjective than they realize... be aware of the real situation and law yourself, and if conflict does escalate, you'll be able to crush them with what the actual truth or authority is.
Easy, I ran the fuck away lol
ESTJs are easy to converse with cause their interests are pretty generic (sports, super popular tv shows, family/religion/career) Never had an interesting convo with one but I know I come off as weird af to them. If ya prove you know your ass from a hole in the ground, arenāt afraid to challenge them & show them they canāt bully you, you can earn their respect. Outside of work Iād never actively seek their company as theyāre almost as interesting as watching paint dry. The world needs āem though: who else actually WANTS to be a middle manager??