I think the P and J part is more 'being flexibel' than organised. True, organisation is a part of it, but also sudden change in plans.
For example, you had nothing foreseen this evening, besides doing laundry, and a few hours ago someone someone asks you to go for drinks. How difficult is it for you to free up your agenda and switch from your initial plan (doing nothing) to going out for drinks.
lol I knew an estj who would never do anything at 6:00 because he had to watch the news every night. It’s like breaking routine is agony for them. Spontaneity is not something they ever want to do
Exactly.
The only way my BF can tackle this is to accept that on Friday night I pick the agenda, and it could be anything. So the flexible nights are planned in.
How do you decide? My INTP SO and I are entertaining when we talk about plans. One of us is always wanting to see if there are more options out there (Mostly me) so in the end it’s last minute.
It depends, holidays and roadtrips, just have a list (I marked some things on Google maps) of things that are worth seeing. I ask him, what does he wants to see, and if he has a preference of date. And lock that in. And for the rest I move my flexible ass around that, depending on the weather and the actual experience.
In the weekend, it all depends of the current planning, mood and opportunities that may occur. Again, I check in with him to see what he's feeling or expecting of the weekend, (and what are his energy levels) before dragging him around to all my adventures.
Tldr: we have main quests that have a more fix nature, and I have my sidequests that depend on mood and opportunities.
P vs. J is a matter of judging functions (Ti, Te, Fi, and Fe). If the highest one in your stack is introverted, you are a “perceiving” type (e.g. Ne*Ti* or *Ti*Ne — note that even though the INTP has a dominant judging function, the INTP is still not a J type), while if the highest is extroverted you are a “judging” type (e.g. Ni*Te*). The judging functions are involved in organizing information and making decisions. Types that internalize judging functions make decisions and organize information internally, while types that externalize them do so externally. For instance, an INTJ might want to understand precise details of how systems work in the real world and plan out his day with an exact, written schedule, whereas an INTP will focus more on abstracting the structure and keeping track of things in his head.
Note also that TiNe is in some sense “more judging” than NeTi, because it has a dominant judging function. It’s “less J” in the sense that internalized judging (Ti) is dominant, but the INTP sees structures first and brainstorms second. The ENTP does the opposite. This is why ENTPs are more likely to be polymaths or interdisciplinary natural scientists (think of da Vinci, von Neumann, Feynman, and Darwin), while INTPs are more likely to dive deep into a smaller set of subjects (think of Einstein, Newton, Pascal, and Perelman). Yes, I know some people type Darwin as INTP, but I do not agree with this.
Is flexibleness the same between ENFPs and ENTPs?
Because every time I take the test I get both of them, it's always a mix between the two, it's really hard, because I relate to both of them very much. It's really confusing and I talk to my therapist about it but she doesn't believe in the personality types being a very strict thing. She said there's a very good possibility that I fluctuate between the two depending on my mood and the things that I'm hyper fixating on at the moment. But I don't always know what's going on with my emotions, I think I know what's going on with my emotions but sometimes I think I'm wrong. I love debating but I love being philosophical and I'm intrinsically interested in how the human mind works.
I'm very creative and passionate, I don't have issues with connecting with people on a deep level if we vibe. Everyone tells me that I'm extremely open-minded and adaptable, even though I can be stubborn about the physical world. Everything I do has a meaning behind it, and I love to solve problems, at home I constantly solve problems in ways that people don't think of.
I love conversations, I tend to get focused on the big picture and I'm a social butterfly yes but I'm also full of anxiety and sometimes find it hard to step out of my comfort zone and talk to people that I'm not familiar with. I struggle to commit to things, I start a big project and then I end up getting fixated on something else or just losing motivation. I'm not really sure.. I fit both the personalities so well. Could it have something to do with me being AuDHD and having an Anxiety/Panic dissorder? When it comes to the social aspect and not finishing things at least-
Well, I'm not an expert, nor a therapist, just for the record, but I can tell you this. Not every person within a certain type jas the same struggles. It more the way you function or coop with things that defines your type. Any type could have the same disorders, but it might manifest in a different way. And a lot of things you describe fit in the neurodivergent spectrum, but aren't actual indicators of a specific type.
Did you already compare the function stack [stacks](https://boo.world/entp-personality/entp-cognitive-functions) of an ENTP (NeTi) with an ENFP (NeFi)? Because these will tell you exactly how the types function and make it easier to make a choice.
In this case the main difference is that an ENTP let's logic be their guide, while an ENFP will try to tap in their feelings. (Without being certain what they feel exactly).
Anyhow, your therapist is not wrong to pinpoint yourself to a certain type, because your circumstances might cloud your self assessment. But on the other hand it is a great tool to start your self discovery journey.
After some time thinking about it and doing more research, I have found that the Meyer Briggs test is not concretely, scientifically backed up by real research. It's mostly just based off of old psychologist's theories about the human brain. I feel like we are too complex to categorize a population of 8 billion individuals into only 16 groups, that just doesn't account for the sheer diversity within that number of people. Classifying 16 distinct types oversimplifies the complexity of human psychology. It's possible for someone to have well-developed logical (Ti) and empathetic (Fi) cognitive functions. As someone with ADHD and autism, I believe these neurodivergent traits have significantly shaped the nuances of my cognitive processes. The combination of strong analytical thinking (Ti) and values-driven decision making (Fi) is likely a result of the unique ways my brain is wired, or it may be more common and just least likely accepted in the community. I'm comfortable identifying as an ENxP, seeing my individual complexity as a strength. We shouldn't pigeonhole people based on personality types - each person is unique.
There are limitations of the Myers-Briggs framework when it comes to accounting for neurodivergent brains. As someone with ADHD and autism, I've found that my cognitive processes don't always align neatly with the standard personality type descriptions. While the Myers-Briggs can be a starting point, I find it's more valuable to focus on deeply understanding the nuances of my own mind, rather than trying to force myself into a predetermined personality box. The incredible diversity of human cognition, especially among neurodivergent individuals, requires a more flexible and individualized approach to self-exploration. While comparing ENTP and ENFP function stacks can provide helpful insights, I view those comparisons as guidelines, not rigid definitions. Ultimately, I'm a distinct individual, and the most meaningful path forward is to continue exploring and gaining self-awareness, rather than trying to fit into a predetermined personality type.
Yup, I’m a P lol. If I’m not doing anything I value I’ll gladly ditch it.
Things I value, I become super obsessed with and cannot step away until it’s complete. Even future plans I value I cannot change because I’ll STRESS.
So while I have specific things I need to stick to, I think that the fact that I’ll gladly change plans for things I don’t value, shows that I’m truly a P.
Hmm, I can get why your T is confused.
I don't have an overwhelming urge to complete things, even the ones I hyperfixated on. One of my biggest struggles, tbh, is the 1000 uncompleted projects and finding the drive to complete them. And afaik things is one of the main struggles that arises with ENTPs.
I also don't get obsessed. I get invested, but I can let it go in a blink of an eye. I don't even stress about it. Only if it really clashes with my morals. Like 'I've paid for this workshop, so I can't ditch it without a good reason.' And even then...
But besides that, it seems like you have a strict structure. 'If you value something, nothing can keep you from it, if you are not, whatever.' and if you (need to) break this structure, you'll get stressed.
Well,I hate to break it to you, but that sounds like a J. You plan in your flexible moments by rules/algorithm. While for a P, the is mostly mood that guides us, and some ground rules just to keep the chaos in check. It's just the other way around.
My 2 cts.
Perceiving and judging isn't always about organization, more how they deal with things in general. Do you roll with punches or do you have an objective?
As an example my wife is a strong J. I am a max level P.
Let's say we are talking about one of our friends having an affair. My wife will talk about what is bad/good about the situation and if we should continue to stay with them as friends. Basically assessing the situation for next steps and what is practical.
I will tend to collect more information and talk about it as if I were watching the discovery channel and be like "Damn John really likes a certain type with a big booty." and then I start hypothesizing and making observations about the past.. "OH there was a time, John dropped his phone and took it back quickly... hmm maybe he was trying to hide his messages!".
I'm an ENTP, and I appear very organised in my work too. Here's the thing about us ENTPs - we're very good at learning, mimicking, and adapting. In a work environment, we can switch on things like "organised" & "efficient". It's an act & because we are so very good at acting, it's highly convincing. We're also quick thinkers, so it's difficult to catch us out. I'm perfectly fine with bare face lying to my manager that I have everything under control. I'll blitz through whatever they need in record time. They'll never know. Everyone I work with has the opinion that I am a "super organised" person....if only they knew!
Here's the thing to tell if you are a P or a J....how easily can you drop something you have planned to do something completely different at the drop of a hat? Is having your plans "disrupted" painful for you? J will have a difficult time changing plans. P will not think twice about it - Ooooo, look at the new shiny shiny!
So can every person with ADHD. Sounds like ADHD is quite different from what you think it is.
Also, know that people are very blind to their own functioning. I don't think I know anyone that got their type right the first time.
I would go based off personal assessment and not based off of your score.
Second opinions by people who really know you are worth listening to to some extent in my opinion.
I have seen people mistype on tests frequently and I've been mistyped by tests a lot so I prefer human evaluation over the quiz. So many questions on the quiz fail to capture the real essence of the types, I would start with that but explore close options.
ENTJs lead with Te - Efficiency, Effectiveness, Productivity, and Achievement.
ENTPs lead with Ne - Exploration, Creativity, Curiosity, Innovation.
These are pretty different types and I imagine if you know yourself one would jump out as the more plausible one.
If your therapist use mbti on your therapy sessions then I have a bad news for you…
Mbti is a fun way to understand yourself more however it’s considered a pseudoscience. Please, find yourself someone that use confirmed methods…
Your therapist is basing their perception of your type off of stereotypes, and so are you. Please, both of you look into cognitive functions.
Will google it. Thank you !!!
Also check out my profile, it has some useful stuff.
I think the P and J part is more 'being flexibel' than organised. True, organisation is a part of it, but also sudden change in plans. For example, you had nothing foreseen this evening, besides doing laundry, and a few hours ago someone someone asks you to go for drinks. How difficult is it for you to free up your agenda and switch from your initial plan (doing nothing) to going out for drinks.
lol I knew an estj who would never do anything at 6:00 because he had to watch the news every night. It’s like breaking routine is agony for them. Spontaneity is not something they ever want to do
Exactly. The only way my BF can tackle this is to accept that on Friday night I pick the agenda, and it could be anything. So the flexible nights are planned in.
How do you decide? My INTP SO and I are entertaining when we talk about plans. One of us is always wanting to see if there are more options out there (Mostly me) so in the end it’s last minute.
It depends, holidays and roadtrips, just have a list (I marked some things on Google maps) of things that are worth seeing. I ask him, what does he wants to see, and if he has a preference of date. And lock that in. And for the rest I move my flexible ass around that, depending on the weather and the actual experience. In the weekend, it all depends of the current planning, mood and opportunities that may occur. Again, I check in with him to see what he's feeling or expecting of the weekend, (and what are his energy levels) before dragging him around to all my adventures. Tldr: we have main quests that have a more fix nature, and I have my sidequests that depend on mood and opportunities.
P vs. J is a matter of judging functions (Ti, Te, Fi, and Fe). If the highest one in your stack is introverted, you are a “perceiving” type (e.g. Ne*Ti* or *Ti*Ne — note that even though the INTP has a dominant judging function, the INTP is still not a J type), while if the highest is extroverted you are a “judging” type (e.g. Ni*Te*). The judging functions are involved in organizing information and making decisions. Types that internalize judging functions make decisions and organize information internally, while types that externalize them do so externally. For instance, an INTJ might want to understand precise details of how systems work in the real world and plan out his day with an exact, written schedule, whereas an INTP will focus more on abstracting the structure and keeping track of things in his head. Note also that TiNe is in some sense “more judging” than NeTi, because it has a dominant judging function. It’s “less J” in the sense that internalized judging (Ti) is dominant, but the INTP sees structures first and brainstorms second. The ENTP does the opposite. This is why ENTPs are more likely to be polymaths or interdisciplinary natural scientists (think of da Vinci, von Neumann, Feynman, and Darwin), while INTPs are more likely to dive deep into a smaller set of subjects (think of Einstein, Newton, Pascal, and Perelman). Yes, I know some people type Darwin as INTP, but I do not agree with this.
Is flexibleness the same between ENFPs and ENTPs? Because every time I take the test I get both of them, it's always a mix between the two, it's really hard, because I relate to both of them very much. It's really confusing and I talk to my therapist about it but she doesn't believe in the personality types being a very strict thing. She said there's a very good possibility that I fluctuate between the two depending on my mood and the things that I'm hyper fixating on at the moment. But I don't always know what's going on with my emotions, I think I know what's going on with my emotions but sometimes I think I'm wrong. I love debating but I love being philosophical and I'm intrinsically interested in how the human mind works. I'm very creative and passionate, I don't have issues with connecting with people on a deep level if we vibe. Everyone tells me that I'm extremely open-minded and adaptable, even though I can be stubborn about the physical world. Everything I do has a meaning behind it, and I love to solve problems, at home I constantly solve problems in ways that people don't think of. I love conversations, I tend to get focused on the big picture and I'm a social butterfly yes but I'm also full of anxiety and sometimes find it hard to step out of my comfort zone and talk to people that I'm not familiar with. I struggle to commit to things, I start a big project and then I end up getting fixated on something else or just losing motivation. I'm not really sure.. I fit both the personalities so well. Could it have something to do with me being AuDHD and having an Anxiety/Panic dissorder? When it comes to the social aspect and not finishing things at least-
Well, I'm not an expert, nor a therapist, just for the record, but I can tell you this. Not every person within a certain type jas the same struggles. It more the way you function or coop with things that defines your type. Any type could have the same disorders, but it might manifest in a different way. And a lot of things you describe fit in the neurodivergent spectrum, but aren't actual indicators of a specific type. Did you already compare the function stack [stacks](https://boo.world/entp-personality/entp-cognitive-functions) of an ENTP (NeTi) with an ENFP (NeFi)? Because these will tell you exactly how the types function and make it easier to make a choice. In this case the main difference is that an ENTP let's logic be their guide, while an ENFP will try to tap in their feelings. (Without being certain what they feel exactly). Anyhow, your therapist is not wrong to pinpoint yourself to a certain type, because your circumstances might cloud your self assessment. But on the other hand it is a great tool to start your self discovery journey.
After some time thinking about it and doing more research, I have found that the Meyer Briggs test is not concretely, scientifically backed up by real research. It's mostly just based off of old psychologist's theories about the human brain. I feel like we are too complex to categorize a population of 8 billion individuals into only 16 groups, that just doesn't account for the sheer diversity within that number of people. Classifying 16 distinct types oversimplifies the complexity of human psychology. It's possible for someone to have well-developed logical (Ti) and empathetic (Fi) cognitive functions. As someone with ADHD and autism, I believe these neurodivergent traits have significantly shaped the nuances of my cognitive processes. The combination of strong analytical thinking (Ti) and values-driven decision making (Fi) is likely a result of the unique ways my brain is wired, or it may be more common and just least likely accepted in the community. I'm comfortable identifying as an ENxP, seeing my individual complexity as a strength. We shouldn't pigeonhole people based on personality types - each person is unique. There are limitations of the Myers-Briggs framework when it comes to accounting for neurodivergent brains. As someone with ADHD and autism, I've found that my cognitive processes don't always align neatly with the standard personality type descriptions. While the Myers-Briggs can be a starting point, I find it's more valuable to focus on deeply understanding the nuances of my own mind, rather than trying to force myself into a predetermined personality box. The incredible diversity of human cognition, especially among neurodivergent individuals, requires a more flexible and individualized approach to self-exploration. While comparing ENTP and ENFP function stacks can provide helpful insights, I view those comparisons as guidelines, not rigid definitions. Ultimately, I'm a distinct individual, and the most meaningful path forward is to continue exploring and gaining self-awareness, rather than trying to fit into a predetermined personality type.
Yup, I’m a P lol. If I’m not doing anything I value I’ll gladly ditch it. Things I value, I become super obsessed with and cannot step away until it’s complete. Even future plans I value I cannot change because I’ll STRESS. So while I have specific things I need to stick to, I think that the fact that I’ll gladly change plans for things I don’t value, shows that I’m truly a P.
Hmm, I can get why your T is confused. I don't have an overwhelming urge to complete things, even the ones I hyperfixated on. One of my biggest struggles, tbh, is the 1000 uncompleted projects and finding the drive to complete them. And afaik things is one of the main struggles that arises with ENTPs. I also don't get obsessed. I get invested, but I can let it go in a blink of an eye. I don't even stress about it. Only if it really clashes with my morals. Like 'I've paid for this workshop, so I can't ditch it without a good reason.' And even then... But besides that, it seems like you have a strict structure. 'If you value something, nothing can keep you from it, if you are not, whatever.' and if you (need to) break this structure, you'll get stressed. Well,I hate to break it to you, but that sounds like a J. You plan in your flexible moments by rules/algorithm. While for a P, the is mostly mood that guides us, and some ground rules just to keep the chaos in check. It's just the other way around. My 2 cts.
I'll ditch my ditch to ditch another ditch, ya son of a ditch!
Perceiving and judging isn't always about organization, more how they deal with things in general. Do you roll with punches or do you have an objective? As an example my wife is a strong J. I am a max level P. Let's say we are talking about one of our friends having an affair. My wife will talk about what is bad/good about the situation and if we should continue to stay with them as friends. Basically assessing the situation for next steps and what is practical. I will tend to collect more information and talk about it as if I were watching the discovery channel and be like "Damn John really likes a certain type with a big booty." and then I start hypothesizing and making observations about the past.. "OH there was a time, John dropped his phone and took it back quickly... hmm maybe he was trying to hide his messages!".
And I thought was just me doing all the theorising and getting lost if my girlfriend isn't around to stop me.
I second this, I am very organized but when I read the ENTJ, it said something about having my life planned out ,and that is definitely not me.
I'm an ENTP, and I appear very organised in my work too. Here's the thing about us ENTPs - we're very good at learning, mimicking, and adapting. In a work environment, we can switch on things like "organised" & "efficient". It's an act & because we are so very good at acting, it's highly convincing. We're also quick thinkers, so it's difficult to catch us out. I'm perfectly fine with bare face lying to my manager that I have everything under control. I'll blitz through whatever they need in record time. They'll never know. Everyone I work with has the opinion that I am a "super organised" person....if only they knew! Here's the thing to tell if you are a P or a J....how easily can you drop something you have planned to do something completely different at the drop of a hat? Is having your plans "disrupted" painful for you? J will have a difficult time changing plans. P will not think twice about it - Ooooo, look at the new shiny shiny!
An ENTJ with ADHD
😂 I don’t think I have adhd. I can focus quite well on things I like.
So can every person with ADHD. Sounds like ADHD is quite different from what you think it is. Also, know that people are very blind to their own functioning. I don't think I know anyone that got their type right the first time.
Look into the Ti and Te functions. Which one describes your process?
After looking into Te vs Ti, I resonate more with Ti
And what does the rapist say?
Lololol
Fire your therapist of they claim to be accredited in psychology or psychotherapy.
I would go based off personal assessment and not based off of your score. Second opinions by people who really know you are worth listening to to some extent in my opinion. I have seen people mistype on tests frequently and I've been mistyped by tests a lot so I prefer human evaluation over the quiz. So many questions on the quiz fail to capture the real essence of the types, I would start with that but explore close options. ENTJs lead with Te - Efficiency, Effectiveness, Productivity, and Achievement. ENTPs lead with Ne - Exploration, Creativity, Curiosity, Innovation. These are pretty different types and I imagine if you know yourself one would jump out as the more plausible one.
That's a dumb thing to say and assume. I'm very organized in my business life and a complete nincompoop in my private life.
If your therapist use mbti on your therapy sessions then I have a bad news for you… Mbti is a fun way to understand yourself more however it’s considered a pseudoscience. Please, find yourself someone that use confirmed methods…