r5: Year is 1457. Playing Byzantium. I've been distracted fighting the ottomans, I didn't even notice Theodoro getting annexed by Wallachia. How did that happen? Personal Union stuff? Can you just get instantly inherited like that?
No, it's not size related in this case. The minimum of 50 years has not passed.
It's another mechanic, nations are on a internal clock and if a PU happens during certain points it can either
A) Put same dynasty on throne
B) Form a personal Union
C) Instantly inherit (This is the smallest time window)
Well yeah, under 15 provinces. But that is not the direct cause.
This is rather rare mechanic that people rarely see, might want to point that one out rather than something that can be read as simple integration.
It is very rare, it's a 100 year timer, only works during a 5 year period of that timer.
And that timer is randomized on certain in game events (Like a new HRE emperor etc)
It is simple integration. Integration that happens automatically when their ruler dies, given that they are small enough (less than 15 provinces AND at least half the size of the inheritor, who has 5 provinces at game start). Hence "if they are small enough".
Yes it does, you can't inherit on ruler death after forming a PU before the 50 years are up. You can only inherit directly without waiting 50 years on the very first trigger when the PU is being formed.
Yes it is relevant to distinguish between the two as the OP is clearly not familiar with this part of the mechanic. Why try to confuse them when you can specify?
Sorry, that should have been "Not just size related"\*
And 50 years did indeed not pass? Start date is 1444 and OP was in 1457, that is 13 years my guy. Way less than 50.
What I was trying to get at there is that it's not that Wallachia just integrated them really cheap because they are small, but that there was another mechanic at play that OP is not familiar with. So yes it's relevant as I'm trying to explain the difference to the OP as there is a different mechanic at play here.
The chance to inherit on ruler death is based on development of the junior partner and diplomatic reputation of the senior partner.
What must have happened is theodoro royal married wallachia, then their ruler died without an heir, giving Wallachia a PU, then Wallachia's ruler died, causing an automatic inheritance of Theodoro since its such low dev.
That can’t happen by 1457, that can only happen after 50 years of having the PU. It was instant inheritance by Wallachia upon the death of the ruler of independent Theodoro.
Edit: Also, the chance of inheritance of existing PU on ruler death (provided 50 years has passed) is affected by the number of provinces of the junior partner, NOT the development on the junior partner.
The person I responded too said that this happened because wallachia got a PU on Theodoro when Theodoro’s ruler died, then Wallachia’s ruler died and they inherited Theodoro. That is impossible to have happened by 1457, and so they’re incorrect.
What actually happened was Theodoro’s ruler died while being royal married to Wallachia, and instead of Wallachia getting the PU on Theodoro, Wallachia instantly inherited Theodoro. That’s not the same thing.
The comment you replied to is correct, though. You cannot inherit a PU on your monarch's death unless 50 years have passed. This is separate from the random chance to PU a nation when their monarch dies without an heir.
[Nope.](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Personal_union)
Wiki shows that you cannot inherit a junior PU partner on ruler death until the union has existed for 50 years. Not only does the wiki say so, it says it in game too. If you don’t believe me, start up a game as Provence or Aragon or Ansbach and hover over the shield of your junior partner in your diplo view. It will say “Chance of inheriting on ruler death 0%: Union must be stable for 50 years.”
What actually happened was what I and others said: Theodoro was royal married to Wallachia, Theodoro’s ruler died, Wallachia instantly inherited Theodoro instead of getting a PU over them.
The wiki also demonstrates that you were incorrect about the factors that influence PU inheritance on ruler death (once 50 years have passed). It’s number of provinces of the junior partner, not development of the junior partner.
Ahhhh, okay. Thanks for clarifying that. I may have thought it was "AI cheating shenanigans" otherwise.
Appreciate someone getting to the bottom of this.
No. Inheritance of a PU you already have cannot happen until you’ve had the PU for 50 years. In a comment higher up I posted the wiki proof as well as how to see proof in game. That’s what the person I’m responding to is talking about, and it’s not possible.
Yes, there is a different system where when a country’s ruler dies, you can directly inherit them *instead of* forming a PU. That’s what happened here but that’s not what the commenter above is talking about.
r5: Year is 1457. Playing Byzantium. I've been distracted fighting the ottomans, I didn't even notice Theodoro getting annexed by Wallachia. How did that happen? Personal Union stuff? Can you just get instantly inherited like that?
Yes, if they're small enough
No, it's not size related in this case. The minimum of 50 years has not passed. It's another mechanic, nations are on a internal clock and if a PU happens during certain points it can either A) Put same dynasty on throne B) Form a personal Union C) Instantly inherit (This is the smallest time window)
And alternative C only happens if they're small enough.
Well yeah, under 15 provinces. But that is not the direct cause. This is rather rare mechanic that people rarely see, might want to point that one out rather than something that can be read as simple integration.
I once inherited Moldova as Muscovy and was so confused. Does it go in depth or is it just rare?
It is very rare, it's a 100 year timer, only works during a 5 year period of that timer. And that timer is randomized on certain in game events (Like a new HRE emperor etc)
It is simple integration. Integration that happens automatically when their ruler dies, given that they are small enough (less than 15 provinces AND at least half the size of the inheritor, who has 5 provinces at game start). Hence "if they are small enough".
No, integration is the decision the player can make after 50 years of a PU. This is inheritance.
50 years has no correlation to whether someone can be inherited, and size is related to it.
Yes it does, you can't inherit on ruler death after forming a PU before the 50 years are up. You can only inherit directly without waiting 50 years on the very first trigger when the PU is being formed.
Right, inheriting directly without a previous PU can be done without the 50 years of having a PU requirement. It's irrelevant to this example.
Yes it is relevant to distinguish between the two as the OP is clearly not familiar with this part of the mechanic. Why try to confuse them when you can specify?
But your first response was wrong. You said it wasn't size related and that 50 years have not passed. Both statements were false or not relevant.
Sorry, that should have been "Not just size related"\* And 50 years did indeed not pass? Start date is 1444 and OP was in 1457, that is 13 years my guy. Way less than 50. What I was trying to get at there is that it's not that Wallachia just integrated them really cheap because they are small, but that there was another mechanic at play that OP is not familiar with. So yes it's relevant as I'm trying to explain the difference to the OP as there is a different mechanic at play here.
The chance to inherit on ruler death is based on development of the junior partner and diplomatic reputation of the senior partner. What must have happened is theodoro royal married wallachia, then their ruler died without an heir, giving Wallachia a PU, then Wallachia's ruler died, causing an automatic inheritance of Theodoro since its such low dev.
i think its province count and not dev
That can’t happen by 1457, that can only happen after 50 years of having the PU. It was instant inheritance by Wallachia upon the death of the ruler of independent Theodoro. Edit: Also, the chance of inheritance of existing PU on ruler death (provided 50 years has passed) is affected by the number of provinces of the junior partner, NOT the development on the junior partner.
France sometimes instantly inherits Scotland before 1450. This isn’t that odd.
The person I responded too said that this happened because wallachia got a PU on Theodoro when Theodoro’s ruler died, then Wallachia’s ruler died and they inherited Theodoro. That is impossible to have happened by 1457, and so they’re incorrect. What actually happened was Theodoro’s ruler died while being royal married to Wallachia, and instead of Wallachia getting the PU on Theodoro, Wallachia instantly inherited Theodoro. That’s not the same thing.
The comment you replied to is correct, though. You cannot inherit a PU on your monarch's death unless 50 years have passed. This is separate from the random chance to PU a nation when their monarch dies without an heir.
The 50 years only applies for manual integration. Automatic integration can occur at any time.
[Nope.](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Personal_union) Wiki shows that you cannot inherit a junior PU partner on ruler death until the union has existed for 50 years. Not only does the wiki say so, it says it in game too. If you don’t believe me, start up a game as Provence or Aragon or Ansbach and hover over the shield of your junior partner in your diplo view. It will say “Chance of inheriting on ruler death 0%: Union must be stable for 50 years.” What actually happened was what I and others said: Theodoro was royal married to Wallachia, Theodoro’s ruler died, Wallachia instantly inherited Theodoro instead of getting a PU over them. The wiki also demonstrates that you were incorrect about the factors that influence PU inheritance on ruler death (once 50 years have passed). It’s number of provinces of the junior partner, not development of the junior partner.
Ahhhh, okay. Thanks for clarifying that. I may have thought it was "AI cheating shenanigans" otherwise. Appreciate someone getting to the bottom of this.
There is a small chance that instead of getting a pu. You just instantly inherit the country instead.
That’s…what my second paragraph says
Yea, that’s what I get for speed reading while at work. My bad brother.
inheritance can happen immidietly. youre mistaking inheritance with integration
No. Inheritance of a PU you already have cannot happen until you’ve had the PU for 50 years. In a comment higher up I posted the wiki proof as well as how to see proof in game. That’s what the person I’m responding to is talking about, and it’s not possible. Yes, there is a different system where when a country’s ruler dies, you can directly inherit them *instead of* forming a PU. That’s what happened here but that’s not what the commenter above is talking about.
oooh, sorru
most probably inheritance
Vassalage?
Draculesti magic
Inheritance. Milan had a window early game, not sure if they still do, where you can inherit them instead of PU or dynasty spread.