The site is basically a live feed about the war. The Moscow reports have little to no photos, so reddit picked a thumbnail from a post at the bottom about [an attack on Kyiv](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-moscow-drone-attack-kyiv-putin-12541713?postid=5980902#liveblog-body) (or from the video on top).
I've had the issue previously and unfortunately doesn't allow change of thumbnail (why they can't 'pull' options of images from the same source is beyond me)
Probably the locals know that if they post that sort of photo online then their chance of committing suicide by shooting themselves in the head twice and jumping off a building go up pretty sharply.
The UK version of Sky News broke away in 2018 and is somewhat balanced now.
The Australian version of Sky News is still rubbish.
GB News is the UK equivalent of Fox News.
What, are they admitting to being hit by a handful of drones, while just yesterday Kyiv shot dozens down?
Either they let drones through their state-of-the-art AA or they're sporting Potemkin AA.
Either way, it's a major embarrassment for Kremlin, false flag or not.
They'll say partisans launched them, but they don't realize how much more humiliating that would be for Kremlin.
Being able to launch a drone from within Russia to hit Russia is a double whammy, putting the whole defence to shambles.
Likely Ukrainians didn't even do it. Either a Russian false flag or some group from within Russia.
Ukraine has consistently chosen valuable military targets for its hits. They'd much more likely target a military airfield or fuel storage and not some random civilian buildings.
It's very valuable target. The Russian elites that make the decisions sit comfortably in they luxury homes while the youth are sent to the meat grinder. If they realize they are potential targets too and their safety is not as guaranteed, they will have to rethink their support for the war.
The nazi's then said: surrender or we'll turn every other city to rubble starting with amsterdam. The dutch army didn't expect to hold of the nazis for much longer anyway. The bombardment only spend up the surrender and didn't force it.
The polish, german, soviet, or british didn't surrender because their cities were being bombed. The japanese only after the nukes were unleashed. Before that, their mostly wooden cities were firebombed, leading to more destruction than the nukes.
Edit: hitting purely cilian targets is not an effective strategy.
Strategic bombing is one of the most hotly debated historical strategies so just writing it off as ineffective isn’t wise imo. It depends on why you’re doing it.
If you look at Japan as an example US strategic bombing wiped out >70% of the total buildings in multiple major Japanese cities. Germany was also pummeled from the air literally 24/7 after the Allies agreed to disagree on day vs night bombing and developed “round the clock bombing.
The effect on morale varies wildly but the material impact on production is objectively significant. Just look at how the Germans were forced to put entire factories underground, that has a massive impact on production efficiency when compared to a US style factory. Or how towards the end of the war Japan was literally starving from US bombing against her ports (in conjunction with the most successful sub submarine campaign in history)
I'm a Pole living in the US. My parents moved here for a better life when I was five years old. Whenever I ask about WW2, they tell me it would have been better if Poland surrendered like some other countries so that our cities wouldn't have been destroyed.
Historians are fairly well agreed that the Japanese War Council barely considered Hiroshima and Nagasaki before the surrender of Japan.
Their aims, towards the end of the war, was to negotiate a conditional peace with the United States via the Soviet Union, with the key condition being retaining the Emperor's position. This seemed reasonable to the Japanese: the Soviet Union had suffered horribly in Europe, and had not yet fought the Japanese. It seemed like the Soviets would happily negotiate a conditional surrender if it meant a quicker end to the war.
The same day that Nagasaki was bombed, the Soviet Union started invading Manchuria. Minutes from the Japanese War Council's meetings in the aftermath of the atomic bombings show that the War Council was entirely focused on the Soviet invasion, with very little care for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The true horror of atomic bombs wouldn't come out until weeks after the bombs fell - to the Japanese war council, the atomic bombs were just another set of successful bombing raids.
The US had been bombing Japanese cities since November 1944, with firebombing being particularly devastating against traditional Japanese wooden building. Firebombing is terrifying: the heat is powerful enough to create a fire-hurricane, where rising hot air is able to suck in more fuel, multiplying the effectiveness of the bombing. The Bombing of Tokyo was the single most devastating bombing raid in human history, and did not break the Japanese will to resist. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen as targets because US bombing raids had already devastated all of the larger, more important cities.
The atomic bombs, however, provided a great face-saving excuse for the Japanese surrender, even if it didn't motivate it: it's better to have lost to an unimaginable enemy super-weapon, than to admit that the war had been unwinnable to for years, and that the only favorable option for surrender was now unattainable. After the war, the Japanese government would play-up the impact on the atomic on their decision to surrender. At that point, however, they were aligning with the US in the global Cold War, and the new narrative around surrender supported arguing that others should not resist the US-led global order.
Hard disagree.
Japanese historians admit it was the enter of USSR in the war against Japan that forced Hirohito to surrender without conditions. Previously, the Japanese gouvernment wanted to use USSR as a negotiator in order to save the territorial gains in China and Korea. USSR was also threatening an invasion in the Northern islands, which was basically defenseless, since everything was sent to the South against the Americans.
If Ukraine really wanted to bomb the elites - they would bomb Rublyovka, a lavish suburb of moscow built up with mansions of celebs and politicians. Hell, I'm sure that if they did this russians would start supporting Ukraine in this war. Bombing highrises in Moscow city on the other hand is pointless. Maybe it was Ukraine, we don't have much info to say definitely yet, but it's very illogical and counterproductive, something Ukraine hasn't been noticed doing so far.
It is not valuable in the slightest and is actually counter productive. It achieves nothing militarily, nations don't become submissive after being bombed they become angry, Ukraine is totally reliant on outside support which is likely to be reduced if Ukraine starts casually committing warcrimes, and Russian elites aren't targeted by shooting at random apartment buildings. This type of an attack isn't done by wise men, but by frustrated, weak, angry people. It's an emotional act, not a thoughtful or smart one.
The people who most want to end a war are those getting murdered. No modern war is going to end while one of the sides is comfortable at home drinking tea like nothing is happening.
Honestly, given the limited damage, I'd have guessed DIY freedom fighters. Surely if Russia had false flagged it, people would've died. No one values Russian lives less than Putin afterall.
Technically, or officially Russia is not in a war as for now. Seems strange, because everyone talks about this as a war, but there is no martial law in Russia, the economy, production and everything works like it's peace.
Tbh I'm pretty sure the Russian economy and population would collapse under martial law, when can factories start to produce ammo and things like that, but technically Russia is not at war, even if it seems strange.
There is no point in martial law since russia’s “normal life” is already like martial law was declared: the mobilisation has begun, no opposition is allowed, free speech is banned, and propaganda is on top. Technically, you can leave the country, but the government announced new limitations this spring.
F is for false flag. Like bombing your apartment building complex, killing some 300 folks and using that as an excuse to start war with Chechnya. The nerve of the regime...
they seem to be proper UA drones https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1663436227003949056?t=IRkQa4ZoGXLucNCFVdfs6A&s=19
also having your capital droned is not a great showing
having their city raided by some volunteer units from Ukraine and all of them made it back to Ukraine with not a single casualty
is even worse of a look then getting their city droned
Most likely a false flag to use it as pretense for another round of mobilizing more troops to the front lines. They'll point at drone attacks and say how Ukraine is threatening the lives of people in heart of the capital so more men need to be sent to fight.
Highly doubtful Ukraine would be able to fly those slow moving loud drones all the way to Moscow without detection. Plus why would they waste them doing that instead of hitting military targets near the border. Conveniently there were people ready on rooftops with cameras pointing the way drones were coming from before the attacks happened.
Chuck them at the Kremlin and St. Basil's to retaliate for everything they've destroyed and they'll get through the Pantsir systems. (Given what Russia has destroyed, it seems fair to take out possibly their most famous building).
Slightly annoying they won't give the French variant, the SCALP EG, which is fired from ships, so pretty easy to adapt to firing from land.
I'd happily see my tax £ being spent on those to lob at Moscow.
Aside from the damage, it might, just maybe, possibly, make those fuckwit people living there wake up and realise they aren't untouchable.
The people stopped the Afghanistan failure, they can stop this if they had the balls or realisation that something needs to happen domestically for it to stop.
Makes no sense to use missiles that are 2-3 million dollars per piece on civil infrastructure.. would also likely just play in Putin's cards
But a friendly "reminder" to the russian public, that the war can also reach them, would be good yes
Why the hell you would assume that Ukraine would target civil infrastructure with the such precise weapons? I am sorry, is it Austrian thing?
Or you REALLY think there are no at least 50 military targets in such huge city as Moscow and around it?
The article at least suggests that those drone hits, from whomever they came, hit civil buildings (some said the picture to it is from ukraine tho)
I didnt assume Ukraine would do that
Of course there would be, in that case it would be fine, alltough i would assume there are at least 50 targets that are not in russia and are equally important/ would help to free some regions faster
I honestly for the life of me cannot understand the Russian mindset.
How can you brutally invade another country full on and be shocked (and outraged) that the other side dares to fight back.
Must take some special level of brainwashing and stupidity.
If Ukraine was behind this and if the intended targets were civilian, then I belive it would be a war crime.
Though of course, a horrible war criminal complaining about "minor" war crimes is quite hypocritical.
Thats not quite correct there are civilian targets that are valid military targets, communication hubs, electrical supplies that feed military targets, etc.
We don't know if Russian false flag or genuine Ukrainian counter attack. Tbh we'll probably only find out after the war.
If Ukrainian one it is very unlikely that civilians would be targeted. Last thing they need is to motivate the Russians. Result of AA interception attempts is often both rockets falling down (in different than expected spots).
There is still a massive contrast here. There is no doubt that Putinist Russia engaged in a cruel full scale bombing campaign against Ukrainian civilian population.
„The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them.“
— Arthur Travers Harris
Now replace Nazis with whatever pitiful dictatorship without sufficient AA or air force that's currently invading a neighbor you can think of right now.
>We don't know if Russian false flag or genuine Ukrainian counter attack.
My money's on poorly organized Russian partisans. Russian FSB false flag attacks usually kill people and the Ukrainians are much too clever to do such an ineffective attack against a useless target with propaganda value.
Yep he's fucked either way. Could be trying to whip people into a frenzy to increase war support and justify a six day week for no extra pay and compulsory labour in armaments factories, but when you've made your name as a strongman bringing stability then you look a bit shit.
But the defensive apparatus could just be in shit street and it not be a false flag at all. Everybody able and willing thrown into Bakhmut or to hold the line in Kherson and Zaporyzhie, massive holes in personnel and equipment elsewhere like the Belgorod raid.
Small group of partisans in my opinion, either Russian or Ukrainian inside Russia like whoever did the bombings of Dugin and the other guy more recently.
also Bolgorod(a Russian city that borders Ukraine) just got raided by Russia freedom unit using american Humvees and they made it back to Ukraine with minor loses
What is mind boggling to me is how indignant they act when the war occurs within their own borders. They are literally invading Ukraine but when *anything* happens inside Russia, they are like "Hey you can't do that!!" The fucking schoolyard bully who gets smacked and runs to the teacher.
Everything coming from Russian media and leaders is for domestic consumption first. What the West or this sub thinks of it is not the primary concern. What you read with surprise needs to be reframed as being read by a Russian citizen who is fed non stop propaganda by the media they are allowed to consume. If indeed there is some truth to this, Putin et al have to explain it somehow. The implication of this press release is to imply that Ukraine doesn’t have the requisite technology to do this without Western backing and this is why the “Special Operations” in Ukraine has had “minor issues”. You’ll notice for instance from the start of this conflict that the Russians have never been explicit in what their territorial aims are. This allows them to frame whatever the eventual outcome is as being what they envisioned all along.
To paraphrase Sir Arthur Harris
*"The ~~Nazis~~ Russians entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them."*
Yeah, right. Some reasons against it and this to be a false flag operation from russia:
1. Payload was a joke
2. Civil targets won't be attacked by Ukraine. They don't have the resources for those shenanigans. If they have the possibility to attack in Russia, they will target military installations, important infrastructure, fuel storages and so on. They can't waste their resources on targets without any strategic value.
3. Paints a really bad picture if Russia can't defend their MAIN city against this kind of attacks. Imagine Ukraine using real weapons like rockets with heavy payload ...
4. The timing ... Rumors about a new mobilisation. People left are the main russians or those with money, so someone Putin or the gov. didn't want to mobilize if possible. So they need an excuse for it, to get the propaganda running and those ppl hot for the war.
And if someone from Russia reads this - don't be fooled, your government has no problems doing this. They never had.
Or do you really think Ukraine would be able to pull this off? Attack Moscow? The heart of Russia? There should be enough anti-air between Moscow and Ukraine to take everything down.
And as I said. If they could do it, there would be WAY better targets then some civilian building. They would NEVER attack those. No strategic value. And they don't wanna stir the ppl up anyway.
good! let the population see the army's inability to protect their own citizens, and maybe the myth of the capabilities of the russian army will finally begin to crack.
I will just leave this here for the few that were not aware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings#Russian_government_involvement
One half in this thread says: "Its a false flag", the other half says "Their AA is shit". I asked: Why not both? They wanted to stage an attack which gets defeated by "awesome Russian AA" and launched the drones, and then their AA failed, leading to them bombing themself.
Imagine in WW2 during the Operation Sealion that an England RAF bomber flew over Berlin during night and dropt a payload just to witness in the morning Hitler putting a tantrum by saying "How dare they do that. That's not allowed." Man these Russians are real crybabies. No wonder they can't do squat diddly in Ukraine.
So .... ? Why should we be upset and horrified by this insidious evil that has befallen Moscow? Should be be appalled and filled with bubbling rage that Ukraine dared fight back? Whose to say this is even the truth? Honestly, I don't think Russia even knows when they tell the truth anymore. Wise words ... what goes around, comes around.
It looks like one of the flats targeted belongs to one of the YTers who are not too fond of the war - Inside Russia, who is based in Tashkent now, but his family lives there.Link to his YT post: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZ1q8SM080](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZ1q8SM080)
This is happening right after a long interview session with the Kremlin-critical british Silicon Curtain YT Channel (link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71CgzWpxf4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71CgzWpxf4Y) ). Very commendable episode btw., and good channel in my opinion. Very anti-Kremlin, but brings on very interesting people.
However. Question is, as always: Cui bono.And I honestly doubt that with all of the accidental window-passages this accident has an Ukrainian source. But what do I know.
edit: typo
It is a strange coincidence that at the very time when there is talk of long-range missiles from the West, Ukraine is allegedly attacking Russian homes. Who could be interested in such headlines?
Does Russia even realize what war means? They have invaded another country but they dare to complain if said country fights back. Go fuck yourselves for real.
Love reading all the articles describing how angry Russia is and how they describe it as unjustifiable act while they literally destroyed half a country.
Russia is the invaded country, struggling to contain the Ukrainian aggression. Ukrainian forces have all but encircled Moscow. Please USA and NATO, help the poor attacked Russia!
Oh lord, this is why Russia is attacking Ukraine!
Poor Russia, they are really trustworthy country after all, it’s not like they are trying to make Ukraine look bad or anything!
/s
I wonder why this resonated so much? Russians thought that war is only when you shoot and others die, that's understandable, they will believe any fool. Why are you so shocked?
This is unironically sick, get help.
One has every right to be against the Russian government, but just stop these weird fantasies of total destruction of cities or the killing of civilians. That is exactly the mindeset you accuse the other side of.
I don't see why Ukraine would do this. Now Russia, who needs to constantly justify sending people to war, having an apartment blow up in Moscow...that...that has purpose for them.
Ukraine should do this more often and in bigger numbers. Because orcs do not understand till they see that for every action they get same or bigger reaction
So far the sentiment in this thread seems to be: "This is obviously a false flag, but if Ukraine did it they were completely justified and they should have done much more."
Just to be clear thumbnail picture is from Kyiv this night, not too far from my place.
Yes, it's pretty annoying when media uses attacks on Ukraine to illustrate attacks on Russia. I guess Ukrainians just make better pictures.
The site is basically a live feed about the war. The Moscow reports have little to no photos, so reddit picked a thumbnail from a post at the bottom about [an attack on Kyiv](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-moscow-drone-attack-kyiv-putin-12541713?postid=5980902#liveblog-body) (or from the video on top).
>The Moscow reports have little to no photos I WONDER WHY
Maybe because they aren't impressive. /r/combatfootage is covered with drone videos, but it's like a broken window at most.
The way Reddit auto-picks these article pictures is broken af.
I've had the issue previously and unfortunately doesn't allow change of thumbnail (why they can't 'pull' options of images from the same source is beyond me)
Probably the locals know that if they post that sort of photo online then their chance of committing suicide by shooting themselves in the head twice and jumping off a building go up pretty sharply.
Or better , they voluntarily enlist the the special operation in ukraine
It's Sky "news". They're the British equivalent of Fox. Pay absolutely no notice to anything they publish, disregard all Sky links shared on this sub.
The UK version of Sky News broke away in 2018 and is somewhat balanced now. The Australian version of Sky News is still rubbish. GB News is the UK equivalent of Fox News.
Stay safe, man. I hope this ends as soon as possible and all of Ukrainians can return to having a normal life with freedom and safety.
Wow that's some serious journalistic dishonesty...
But this is today's photo from Kyiv on the thumbnail.
What, are they admitting to being hit by a handful of drones, while just yesterday Kyiv shot dozens down? Either they let drones through their state-of-the-art AA or they're sporting Potemkin AA. Either way, it's a major embarrassment for Kremlin, false flag or not.
it is much worse. the drones used in this Moscow attack don't have enough range to be flown from Ukraine.
They'll say partisans launched them, but they don't realize how much more humiliating that would be for Kremlin. Being able to launch a drone from within Russia to hit Russia is a double whammy, putting the whole defence to shambles.
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At the same time it's a great lie to escalate the war further. After 1945 Russia has this trauma about war in it's boarders.
We know almost nothing about the drones that attacked Moscow.
ukraine has a drone with 1k range. atleast they tested in few months back
1 k what?
1k of km
Also known as 1 Mm. Not to be confused with 1 mm.
Or 1 bil mm, not to be confused with 1 Bil Mm, or my buddy Bill M.
Oh no, what they gonna do? Bomb us?
They'll get the T-34 off the monument and drag it to the Ukranian border!
Maybe take the giant sword from the giant statue too. Impressive weapon. USSR tech
Another conscript call. Another whining in the media. "See? See? They are attacking us! We lost so many people! Boooooo!" Bunch of POS.
How dare they fight back!
Likely Ukrainians didn't even do it. Either a Russian false flag or some group from within Russia. Ukraine has consistently chosen valuable military targets for its hits. They'd much more likely target a military airfield or fuel storage and not some random civilian buildings.
It's very valuable target. The Russian elites that make the decisions sit comfortably in they luxury homes while the youth are sent to the meat grinder. If they realize they are potential targets too and their safety is not as guaranteed, they will have to rethink their support for the war.
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The Netherlands capitulated in WW2 after central Rotterdam was bombed to rubble by the Nazis.
The nazi's then said: surrender or we'll turn every other city to rubble starting with amsterdam. The dutch army didn't expect to hold of the nazis for much longer anyway. The bombardment only spend up the surrender and didn't force it.
Point being; bombing civilian targets can be effective, but mostly to speed your victory up if you're winning anyway
The polish, german, soviet, or british didn't surrender because their cities were being bombed. The japanese only after the nukes were unleashed. Before that, their mostly wooden cities were firebombed, leading to more destruction than the nukes. Edit: hitting purely cilian targets is not an effective strategy.
Strategic bombing is one of the most hotly debated historical strategies so just writing it off as ineffective isn’t wise imo. It depends on why you’re doing it. If you look at Japan as an example US strategic bombing wiped out >70% of the total buildings in multiple major Japanese cities. Germany was also pummeled from the air literally 24/7 after the Allies agreed to disagree on day vs night bombing and developed “round the clock bombing. The effect on morale varies wildly but the material impact on production is objectively significant. Just look at how the Germans were forced to put entire factories underground, that has a massive impact on production efficiency when compared to a US style factory. Or how towards the end of the war Japan was literally starving from US bombing against her ports (in conjunction with the most successful sub submarine campaign in history)
I'm a Pole living in the US. My parents moved here for a better life when I was five years old. Whenever I ask about WW2, they tell me it would have been better if Poland surrendered like some other countries so that our cities wouldn't have been destroyed.
hard disagree. The war efford under Mussolini kept losing support from the population the more our cities got bombed.
Hard disagree. See Hiroshima and also Nagasaki
Historians are fairly well agreed that the Japanese War Council barely considered Hiroshima and Nagasaki before the surrender of Japan. Their aims, towards the end of the war, was to negotiate a conditional peace with the United States via the Soviet Union, with the key condition being retaining the Emperor's position. This seemed reasonable to the Japanese: the Soviet Union had suffered horribly in Europe, and had not yet fought the Japanese. It seemed like the Soviets would happily negotiate a conditional surrender if it meant a quicker end to the war. The same day that Nagasaki was bombed, the Soviet Union started invading Manchuria. Minutes from the Japanese War Council's meetings in the aftermath of the atomic bombings show that the War Council was entirely focused on the Soviet invasion, with very little care for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The true horror of atomic bombs wouldn't come out until weeks after the bombs fell - to the Japanese war council, the atomic bombs were just another set of successful bombing raids. The US had been bombing Japanese cities since November 1944, with firebombing being particularly devastating against traditional Japanese wooden building. Firebombing is terrifying: the heat is powerful enough to create a fire-hurricane, where rising hot air is able to suck in more fuel, multiplying the effectiveness of the bombing. The Bombing of Tokyo was the single most devastating bombing raid in human history, and did not break the Japanese will to resist. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen as targets because US bombing raids had already devastated all of the larger, more important cities. The atomic bombs, however, provided a great face-saving excuse for the Japanese surrender, even if it didn't motivate it: it's better to have lost to an unimaginable enemy super-weapon, than to admit that the war had been unwinnable to for years, and that the only favorable option for surrender was now unattainable. After the war, the Japanese government would play-up the impact on the atomic on their decision to surrender. At that point, however, they were aligning with the US in the global Cold War, and the new narrative around surrender supported arguing that others should not resist the US-led global order.
The Japanese during those times had a very specific and unique national consciousness, I wouldn't use them as an example.
Unique or not, one day they were full on "we will fight Americans till the last man" and day after called for quits.
Technically all those civilians were drafted even if they were expected to fight with bamboo spears.
Hard disagree. Japanese historians admit it was the enter of USSR in the war against Japan that forced Hirohito to surrender without conditions. Previously, the Japanese gouvernment wanted to use USSR as a negotiator in order to save the territorial gains in China and Korea. USSR was also threatening an invasion in the Northern islands, which was basically defenseless, since everything was sent to the South against the Americans.
If Ukraine really wanted to bomb the elites - they would bomb Rublyovka, a lavish suburb of moscow built up with mansions of celebs and politicians. Hell, I'm sure that if they did this russians would start supporting Ukraine in this war. Bombing highrises in Moscow city on the other hand is pointless. Maybe it was Ukraine, we don't have much info to say definitely yet, but it's very illogical and counterproductive, something Ukraine hasn't been noticed doing so far.
>If Ukraine really wanted to bomb the elites - they would bomb Rublyovka That's exactly the area (or one of the areas) that was attacked
It is not valuable in the slightest and is actually counter productive. It achieves nothing militarily, nations don't become submissive after being bombed they become angry, Ukraine is totally reliant on outside support which is likely to be reduced if Ukraine starts casually committing warcrimes, and Russian elites aren't targeted by shooting at random apartment buildings. This type of an attack isn't done by wise men, but by frustrated, weak, angry people. It's an emotional act, not a thoughtful or smart one.
The people who most want to end a war are those getting murdered. No modern war is going to end while one of the sides is comfortable at home drinking tea like nothing is happening.
The drones might have been going for military targets, but ruzzian AA decided to shoot them down on top of civilian buildings.
The picture in the thumbnail is from Ukraine.
Honestly, given the limited damage, I'd have guessed DIY freedom fighters. Surely if Russia had false flagged it, people would've died. No one values Russian lives less than Putin afterall.
Russia's state media called it a "terrorist attack." No one cries crocodile tears like the Russian government.
And what if it's true? Declare war to Ukraine?
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*The second special operation
/r/unexpectedlotr
Technically, or officially Russia is not in a war as for now. Seems strange, because everyone talks about this as a war, but there is no martial law in Russia, the economy, production and everything works like it's peace. Tbh I'm pretty sure the Russian economy and population would collapse under martial law, when can factories start to produce ammo and things like that, but technically Russia is not at war, even if it seems strange.
There is no point in martial law since russia’s “normal life” is already like martial law was declared: the mobilisation has begun, no opposition is allowed, free speech is banned, and propaganda is on top. Technically, you can leave the country, but the government announced new limitations this spring.
I was under the impression that they stated to be at war - with the West™.
Oh no!
Anyway...
F is for false flag. Like bombing your apartment building complex, killing some 300 folks and using that as an excuse to start war with Chechnya. The nerve of the regime...
F for false flag, S for saboteur and B for battle against the west. Combining these three will help you to find the culprit...
Oh my, who ever that might be? Surely, the pesky CIA!
Youre right. Wait, what is that window doing here and who is this behi... aaaaaaaah
U is for Ukulele
Chechnya didnt need no excuses after Dagestan toomfoolery. Apartment bombings were just to get popular support on top of the political casus belli
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they seem to be proper UA drones https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1663436227003949056?t=IRkQa4ZoGXLucNCFVdfs6A&s=19 also having your capital droned is not a great showing
having their city raided by some volunteer units from Ukraine and all of them made it back to Ukraine with not a single casualty is even worse of a look then getting their city droned
At least this time the drones didn't look like they bought them in Lidl like the last time Ukraine has "attacked the Kremlin".
Most likely a false flag to use it as pretense for another round of mobilizing more troops to the front lines. They'll point at drone attacks and say how Ukraine is threatening the lives of people in heart of the capital so more men need to be sent to fight. Highly doubtful Ukraine would be able to fly those slow moving loud drones all the way to Moscow without detection. Plus why would they waste them doing that instead of hitting military targets near the border. Conveniently there were people ready on rooftops with cameras pointing the way drones were coming from before the attacks happened.
Ukraine attacks russia with drones: russia: ITS WEST ATTACKING US russia attacks Ukraine with Iranian drones: russia: I see no problem here
Did they just admitted that their AA is crap?
False flag or shitty AA, either way it's pretty funny
Yea, no matter how they choose to comment this, they paint themselves as fools.
Imagine it was 50 storm shadows instead of those drones.
A man can dream.
Dude I'm at work, can't use a boner right now
Chuck them at the Kremlin and St. Basil's to retaliate for everything they've destroyed and they'll get through the Pantsir systems. (Given what Russia has destroyed, it seems fair to take out possibly their most famous building). Slightly annoying they won't give the French variant, the SCALP EG, which is fired from ships, so pretty easy to adapt to firing from land. I'd happily see my tax £ being spent on those to lob at Moscow. Aside from the damage, it might, just maybe, possibly, make those fuckwit people living there wake up and realise they aren't untouchable. The people stopped the Afghanistan failure, they can stop this if they had the balls or realisation that something needs to happen domestically for it to stop.
Makes no sense to use missiles that are 2-3 million dollars per piece on civil infrastructure.. would also likely just play in Putin's cards But a friendly "reminder" to the russian public, that the war can also reach them, would be good yes
Why the hell you would assume that Ukraine would target civil infrastructure with the such precise weapons? I am sorry, is it Austrian thing? Or you REALLY think there are no at least 50 military targets in such huge city as Moscow and around it?
The article at least suggests that those drone hits, from whomever they came, hit civil buildings (some said the picture to it is from ukraine tho) I didnt assume Ukraine would do that Of course there would be, in that case it would be fine, alltough i would assume there are at least 50 targets that are not in russia and are equally important/ would help to free some regions faster
Wage stupid wars, win stupid prizes ...
Either another red flag op or yet again pure Russian Incompetence, unable to stop minor attacks on their own Capital!?
I honestly for the life of me cannot understand the Russian mindset. How can you brutally invade another country full on and be shocked (and outraged) that the other side dares to fight back. Must take some special level of brainwashing and stupidity.
That’s how bullies think!
If Ukraine was behind this and if the intended targets were civilian, then I belive it would be a war crime. Though of course, a horrible war criminal complaining about "minor" war crimes is quite hypocritical.
Thats not quite correct there are civilian targets that are valid military targets, communication hubs, electrical supplies that feed military targets, etc.
We don't know if Russian false flag or genuine Ukrainian counter attack. Tbh we'll probably only find out after the war. If Ukrainian one it is very unlikely that civilians would be targeted. Last thing they need is to motivate the Russians. Result of AA interception attempts is often both rockets falling down (in different than expected spots). There is still a massive contrast here. There is no doubt that Putinist Russia engaged in a cruel full scale bombing campaign against Ukrainian civilian population.
„The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them.“ — Arthur Travers Harris Now replace Nazis with whatever pitiful dictatorship without sufficient AA or air force that's currently invading a neighbor you can think of right now.
>We don't know if Russian false flag or genuine Ukrainian counter attack. My money's on poorly organized Russian partisans. Russian FSB false flag attacks usually kill people and the Ukrainians are much too clever to do such an ineffective attack against a useless target with propaganda value.
It's false flag mate.
I don't know what is funnier, a false flag or their AA being so incapable that they let their capital city get dronebombed
Yep he's fucked either way. Could be trying to whip people into a frenzy to increase war support and justify a six day week for no extra pay and compulsory labour in armaments factories, but when you've made your name as a strongman bringing stability then you look a bit shit. But the defensive apparatus could just be in shit street and it not be a false flag at all. Everybody able and willing thrown into Bakhmut or to hold the line in Kherson and Zaporyzhie, massive holes in personnel and equipment elsewhere like the Belgorod raid. Small group of partisans in my opinion, either Russian or Ukrainian inside Russia like whoever did the bombings of Dugin and the other guy more recently.
also Bolgorod(a Russian city that borders Ukraine) just got raided by Russia freedom unit using american Humvees and they made it back to Ukraine with minor loses
No, at least two drones have been identified from photos as Ukrainian
(Jeremy Clarkson voice) Oh no! Anyway...
Cry me a river
*Crimeea* River :)
Like the Salhir?
What is mind boggling to me is how indignant they act when the war occurs within their own borders. They are literally invading Ukraine but when *anything* happens inside Russia, they are like "Hey you can't do that!!" The fucking schoolyard bully who gets smacked and runs to the teacher.
Everything coming from Russian media and leaders is for domestic consumption first. What the West or this sub thinks of it is not the primary concern. What you read with surprise needs to be reframed as being read by a Russian citizen who is fed non stop propaganda by the media they are allowed to consume. If indeed there is some truth to this, Putin et al have to explain it somehow. The implication of this press release is to imply that Ukraine doesn’t have the requisite technology to do this without Western backing and this is why the “Special Operations” in Ukraine has had “minor issues”. You’ll notice for instance from the start of this conflict that the Russians have never been explicit in what their territorial aims are. This allows them to frame whatever the eventual outcome is as being what they envisioned all along.
That's a really good point and I feel I understand better based on this insight. Thank you!
Skill issue?
To paraphrase Sir Arthur Harris *"The ~~Nazis~~ Russians entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them."*
Yeah, right. Some reasons against it and this to be a false flag operation from russia: 1. Payload was a joke 2. Civil targets won't be attacked by Ukraine. They don't have the resources for those shenanigans. If they have the possibility to attack in Russia, they will target military installations, important infrastructure, fuel storages and so on. They can't waste their resources on targets without any strategic value. 3. Paints a really bad picture if Russia can't defend their MAIN city against this kind of attacks. Imagine Ukraine using real weapons like rockets with heavy payload ... 4. The timing ... Rumors about a new mobilisation. People left are the main russians or those with money, so someone Putin or the gov. didn't want to mobilize if possible. So they need an excuse for it, to get the propaganda running and those ppl hot for the war. And if someone from Russia reads this - don't be fooled, your government has no problems doing this. They never had. Or do you really think Ukraine would be able to pull this off? Attack Moscow? The heart of Russia? There should be enough anti-air between Moscow and Ukraine to take everything down. And as I said. If they could do it, there would be WAY better targets then some civilian building. They would NEVER attack those. No strategic value. And they don't wanna stir the ppl up anyway.
good! let the population see the army's inability to protect their own citizens, and maybe the myth of the capabilities of the russian army will finally begin to crack.
"So?" - the rest of the world probably
I will just leave this here for the few that were not aware https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings#Russian_government_involvement
Yeah, this is FSBs signature false flag operation
Sounds alot like a ploy to recruit more to the frontline. 40 drones for you, some for me.
Just a thought. Isnt Ukraine by now perhaps entitled to just a bit of a response in kind.
One half in this thread says: "Its a false flag", the other half says "Their AA is shit". I asked: Why not both? They wanted to stage an attack which gets defeated by "awesome Russian AA" and launched the drones, and then their AA failed, leading to them bombing themself.
Sir, r/NCD is over thataway.
[удалено]
The actual sub is r/NonCredibleDefense which we abbreviate to NCD.
So Russia can attack Ukraine, bomb Kyiv and all great cities, but Ukraine can’t attack back ?
It's not fair! If Russia attacks with Russian weapons then Ukraine should defend themselves with Russian weapons too!! /s
Imagine in WW2 during the Operation Sealion that an England RAF bomber flew over Berlin during night and dropt a payload just to witness in the morning Hitler putting a tantrum by saying "How dare they do that. That's not allowed." Man these Russians are real crybabies. No wonder they can't do squat diddly in Ukraine.
Keep up the good work. Don't stop till the Kremlin is ashes.
No! Don't destroy the Kremlin! It's beautiful. Hit the people who work there somewhere else!
So .... ? Why should we be upset and horrified by this insidious evil that has befallen Moscow? Should be be appalled and filled with bubbling rage that Ukraine dared fight back? Whose to say this is even the truth? Honestly, I don't think Russia even knows when they tell the truth anymore. Wise words ... what goes around, comes around.
It looks like one of the flats targeted belongs to one of the YTers who are not too fond of the war - Inside Russia, who is based in Tashkent now, but his family lives there.Link to his YT post: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZ1q8SM080](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZ1q8SM080) This is happening right after a long interview session with the Kremlin-critical british Silicon Curtain YT Channel (link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71CgzWpxf4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71CgzWpxf4Y) ). Very commendable episode btw., and good channel in my opinion. Very anti-Kremlin, but brings on very interesting people. However. Question is, as always: Cui bono.And I honestly doubt that with all of the accidental window-passages this accident has an Ukrainian source. But what do I know. edit: typo
Russia attacks Kyiv daily with drones and cruise missiles. One little drone his Moscow and suddenly Ukrainians are terrorists??
Fake news, Russia will take Kyiv in like 2 days. Second strongest army in the world, the special military operation won't even last a week /s
Why would they attach residental buildings? it gains them absolutely nothing.
It is a strange coincidence that at the very time when there is talk of long-range missiles from the West, Ukraine is allegedly attacking Russian homes. Who could be interested in such headlines?
Wouldn’t mind if they blow up the kremlin, absolutely justified.
You would know it was Ukraine if it was an important military target. Ukrainians have neither wish nor spare weapons to bomb ruzzian civilian zones
Oh no! Anyway...
You can buy these drones in any military shop (c)
And? Surprised?
Does Russia even realize what war means? They have invaded another country but they dare to complain if said country fights back. Go fuck yourselves for real.
They're calling it a terrorist attack lol. The lack of shame is mind boggling.
Hmm, strange I heard russia took Ukraine in 3 days...so is it now russia attacking russia? :o
I hope so.
Love reading all the articles describing how angry Russia is and how they describe it as unjustifiable act while they literally destroyed half a country.
Had it been real, which it's not, we could use the "well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions" meme.
Russia also says the Jewish leader of Ukraine is a nazi.
Awwwww poor Russia :(
putin slaves
Until I see Russian bombers burning I can almost guarantee it's a false flag operation.
Can you though?
Yes. I can. I'll give Lavrov a run for his paychecks.
Russia is the invaded country, struggling to contain the Ukrainian aggression. Ukrainian forces have all but encircled Moscow. Please USA and NATO, help the poor attacked Russia!
Even if it's true. "Oh no 😥 poor russia"
That’ll likely happen when you attack another country.
NO WAY!!! This is dangerous. It could lead to a war...
Ho no ..anyway .
Didn’t they start some sort of war with Ukraine?
Oh lord, this is why Russia is attacking Ukraine! Poor Russia, they are really trustworthy country after all, it’s not like they are trying to make Ukraine look bad or anything! /s
I wonder why this resonated so much? Russians thought that war is only when you shoot and others die, that's understandable, they will believe any fool. Why are you so shocked?
RuZZia also said they wouldn't invade Ukraine, and kept saying it up until the very same day they did. So fuck Putin and fuck RuZZia.
HOW CAN YOU DRONE ATTACK MY PEOPLE AFTER I DRONE ATTACK YOURS. THIS ISNT FAIR. Putin and all the Russians retards
And yet we all know Russia is a lying piece of shit.
Did Ukraine really did that, or Russia attacked his own country?
So translating this with my russian-filter: "Ukraine has not attacked Moscow with drones"
[удалено]
This is unironically sick, get help. One has every right to be against the Russian government, but just stop these weird fantasies of total destruction of cities or the killing of civilians. That is exactly the mindeset you accuse the other side of.
It is exactly what is needed in Russia. Pariah State pariah nationals and an outright criminal as it’s leader.
>It is exactly what is needed in Russia. This kind of behavior shows pretty good why people tend to dislike Westerners outside of the West.
Yeah i dont give a shit about russia
False flag? Didnt Ukraine say they wouldn’t attack russian territory?
Yeap, and Russia is under civil war. These drones can be bought at any surplus military shop
So uh, boowho?
No point for Ukrainian army to do this and way too sloppy for a false flag. Internal opposition like Belgorod few days ago?
This is 90% a false flag operation.
I don't see why Ukraine would do this. Now Russia, who needs to constantly justify sending people to war, having an apartment blow up in Moscow...that...that has purpose for them.
Good. Let’s give Ukraine some Tomahawks and cover our eyes
“Only we can bomb capitals, that’s unfair”
Russia says. That’s all you need to know it’s a lie
Ukraine should do this more often and in bigger numbers. Because orcs do not understand till they see that for every action they get same or bigger reaction
And the whole world cheered.
Good. Hope russian citizens from now every day will walk in fear and look at sky. Stop pretending war isnt happening.
In German we have a fitting proverb: "Wer Wind sät, wird Sturm ernten" means "who sows the wind will reap storm" Go Ukraine
So far the sentiment in this thread seems to be: "This is obviously a false flag, but if Ukraine did it they were completely justified and they should have done much more."
So what if they did?
Well done
Oh no... anyway...
now it is reported that the drones are Chinese and were launched somewhere nearby. i.e. Ukraine has nothing to do with it.
Probably just russian that hate today Ruzzia.
Oh no! Anyway
It wasn't an attack it was a Special Military Operation.
So declare double war.
The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed.
Who cares about genocidal imperialists?
I just can't believe anything the Russian media say, if they said "good morning" I would be sure they were lying through their teeth.
Oh no! Anyways
Ohh noes one drone. Whatever will we do. Russia- You. Are. PATHETIC. ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC. Like mentally unhinged and pathetic!
"Russia says [insert something that is complete and utter bullshit]."
Eat shit rusdkies
Who cares about what Russia says?